On March 29 2012 09:57 TheDwf wrote: Updating statistics: from the 216 games I played this season (high Master/GM MMR on Europe, currently 1200 points Master), I played:
99 TvP 76 TvZ 41 TvT
I'm seeing the same thing on SEA, plat level. If I play 20 games at least 10 will be PvP, 6 PvZ and 4 PvT. Which sucks cause who enjoys PvP? Tempting to switch just so i don't have to play PvP any more
Being Teran is the best, TvP is challenging, TvZ has action and TvT is great .
To anyone having a problem with 1 gate Fast expand Protoss, I've been toying around with a hellions opener that punishes it severely. Why hellions? What do most protoss have by the time you have 6 hellions out? 2-3 stalkers or zealots. Stalkers only do 10 damage per shot, Zealots won't even touch you. With proper micro the damage to the mineral line is insane.
Here is a quick replay of my own TvP style against 1gate FE.
Ignore the slightly delayed/slurred speech. I'd had a few drinks before making this video.
On March 29 2012 12:59 NoctemSC wrote: To anyone having a problem with 1 gate Fast expand Protoss, I've been toying around with a hellions opener that punishes it severely. Why hellions? What do most protoss have by the time you have 6 hellions out? 2-3 stalkers or zealots. Stalkers only do 10 damage per shot, Zealots won't even touch you. With proper micro the damage to the mineral line is insane.
On March 29 2012 12:59 NoctemSC wrote: To anyone having a problem with 1 gate Fast expand Protoss, I've been toying around with a hellions opener that punishes it severely. Why hellions? What do most protoss have by the time you have 6 hellions out? 2-3 stalkers or zealots. Stalkers only do 10 damage per shot, Zealots won't even touch you. With proper micro the damage to the mineral line is insane.
On March 29 2012 13:35 Holytornados wrote: After getting back into the game a bit, I have rekindled my hatred of TvP.
Damn Protoss. I seem to remember why I began to shy away from SC2 ladder matches for a while.
I feel your pain, late game is hard, period. Even if you're good at TvP lategame is still hard. Most of my problems came from protoss Fast expanding then over taking me in economy which is the whole reason I made that build. Mid game/early game you should be on even playing field as long as you can scout.
On March 29 2012 12:59 NoctemSC wrote: To anyone having a problem with 1 gate Fast expand Protoss, I've been toying around with a hellions opener that punishes it severely. Why hellions? What do most protoss have by the time you have 6 hellions out? 2-3 stalkers or zealots. Stalkers only do 10 damage per shot, Zealots won't even touch you. With proper micro the damage to the mineral line is insane.
Ignore the slightly delayed/slurred speech. I'd had a few drinks before making this video.
What do you do if he makes a sentry and blocks his ramp? Or better yet just puts 2 stalkers on hold position on the ramp retreating the probes into the main. Btw not totally sure 2 stalkers will fully block the ramp. Also how effective is your 3 rax follow up? Seems pretty much allin at that point or requires you to get a lot of probe kills. Might try a 2 rax expand after with bunkers to hold. I love the idea though, and totally plan on trying it out.
On March 29 2012 09:58 Mongolbonjwa wrote: How would you do sc2 more like bw without actually turning sc2 into bw?
First thing that popped in my head is unit dyanmics/relationship. Example is viking vs colossus relationship. The colossus forces viking production from the T since its the only unit that can efficiently take out that unit. Vikings indirectly shutdowns Ps stargate tech, making any air unit pretty much useless in the TvP matchup other than a few timings.
Lets take a look at the unit that was replaced by the colossus; the reaver, a slower moving, has less hitpoints but deals insane about of splash damage if the scarab connects. This unit had to be combined with the shuttle (synergy) so that one of its key weakness (movement speed) would be compensated in return for being more vulnerable since the shuttle has even less of a hit point. Now in the context of TvP, the T has multiple tools to deal with the threat. Its not simply "ok i make unit A now". You could use well positioned tanks + turrets to defend, spider mines, goliaths or even using a wraith. However unlike the viking vs colossus, where its pretty much I kill you first before I die etc, the reaver/shuttle vs various T units showcased micro and game sense in the fact that Ps would sometimes find holes and deal terrible damage or vice versa. It created interesting matchups and interactions between different units.
Note: Reavers were partly responsible for shutting down bio play in BW TvP however this was mostly due to BW bio units having 40~50 hitpoints so they were more so ineffective against Ps AOE.
I mean, I could go further by looking at TvT. The player who gains air superiority will maintain the air superiority until the opposing player somehow gathers more vikings or catches those vikings off guard with GtA units. However in SC2, the T GtA units are so weak and unbalanced (marines have a range 5 and vikings often stay within seige tank range, thors can be an option for a given period of time but generally do really bad against BCs which most T with air superiority transitions into) that most are forced to getting more vikings or just giving up air superiority completely. The problem gets worse when a few banshees get involved into the mix.
Then we look at BW TvT. Sure the opposing player went for wraiths and hence did gain air superiority. However there alot of options to deal with the threat. I could gather my own wraiths secretly, get 2~3 valkayries OR just get goliaths (range upgrade meant range of 9 for its AA missile) and float raxes for air vision. The BW T player had options, available tools in different forms to handle the given threat. This was the beauty of BW.
In SC2 you usually have just the 1~2 options to counter something and most feels like its being forced. If Blizzard can improve on unit relationships and the way they interact with other units, I can guarantee you that it will be more of an enjoyable game instead of being so 1D and uninteresting.
On March 29 2012 12:59 NoctemSC wrote: To anyone having a problem with 1 gate Fast expand Protoss, I've been toying around with a hellions opener that punishes it severely. Why hellions? What do most protoss have by the time you have 6 hellions out? 2-3 stalkers or zealots. Stalkers only do 10 damage per shot, Zealots won't even touch you. With proper micro the damage to the mineral line is insane.
Ignore the slightly delayed/slurred speech. I'd had a few drinks before making this video.
What do you do if he makes a sentry and blocks his ramp? Or better yet just puts 2 stalkers on hold position on the ramp retreating the probes into the main. Btw not totally sure 2 stalkers will fully block the ramp. Also how effective is your 3 rax follow up? Seems pretty much allin at that point or requires you to get a lot of probe kills. Might try a 2 rax expand after with bunkers to hold. I love the idea though, and totally plan on trying it out.
Good question. you check the tower first on you way, depending on the map. I've yet to play a protoss that can react fast enough to pull all of his probes and block his ramps at the same time, hellions are really fast. If you force the probes up top then that's lost mining time either way. You can camp the hellions down below, force him to build units then expand. the three rax is 1 tech lab, 2 reactors and I usually don't need, it's only to finish off a stubborn protoss that wants to stay in the game. By the time I push out their army is literally a quarter the size of mine.
The build isn't refined yet, I'm still working on it when I have the time to do so.
The Terran race offers nothing unless you're one of the best 10 players in the world from Korea or of course you're fond of cheesing. I'm honestly not exaggerating. There's a reason why many quality foreign terrans struggle so hard.. Oh well.
On March 29 2012 09:58 Mongolbonjwa wrote: How would you do sc2 more like bw without actually turning sc2 into bw?
First thing that popped in my head is unit dynamics/relationship.
In SC2 you usually have just the 1~2 options to counter something and most feels like its being forced. If Blizzard can improve on unit relationships and the way they interact with other units, I can guarantee you that it will be more of an enjoyable game instead of being so 1D and uninteresting.
I play a macro game every time on the ladder and I have the feeling that if I start with a no-gas expand, I will inevitably reach the late game and have to face the death ball. The typical game looks like this:
1) 1rax expand. Protoss reacts with 1 gate expand as his probe scouts no gas or scouts the 2nd depot wall-off before my rax is finished (as it means no gas). I have to place down a bunker to fend off the stalker. Potential for aggression: None. The marines I have will get chewed threw by the one stalker that will inevitably come.
2) I follow up with rax, rax, gas, gas (or gas, gas, rax, rax, if I can confirm his nexus) put down 2 tech labs on the barracks, get 1-2 marauder and - if the map is good for it - a scouting reaper. The stim, concussive and with the next 100 gas factory. I take 3rd gas on the natural, so I can go for shields and a reactored startport right away. Protoss goes either double forge or robo tech. Doesn't matter, I cannot break him before medivacs anyhow due to forcefields. Potential for aggression: Very little. If I move out without stim and just concussive, I'm fucked by the 3 gate production and toss can even push me. If I move out with stim, the toss has to forcefield. If he forcefields correctly, I lose half my stuff and have to run. As the vast majority of protoss can forcefield correctly in this situation, it's not worth pushing there.
3) Medivacs come out. Start my 3rd CC.Take 4th gas, get 4th+5th rax, get 2 ebays. Protoss either has +1/+1 with further upgrades on the way (archons will arrive shortly) OR he has 1-2 colossus with thermal lance nearly done. He has just started his 3rd or will do so very soon. Potential for aggression: Limited, depending on the toss tech tree. If he has gone colossus it depends on the map but often I cannot do shit and not even drop, as he can keep 1 colossus in the main and one in the nat to kill most drops before the do dmg. I have to wait until he makes a mistake before I can do some damage, but I cannot fight his army straight up and have to start vikings after 2-4 medivacs. If I go for heavy drop play, I have to retreat with my main army because else the main army just gets crushed by colossus+forcefield. Vs double forge I have more potential to drop. Usually the 3rd is somewhat faster and I can spread him thin. On the down side, his gateway units are scary now. 4) I get 3rd, upgrades and either vikings or ghost. Protoss either switches to twilight tech (if gone colossus) or completes storm and both blink and charge. Potential for aggression: I can drop when he postures on the map but toss will rarely move out. He has 3 bases, time is ticking for me. I usually have a slight supply lead, so I try distract with my main army while dropping in 2 locations with 1-2 medivacs each. Sometimes it works, often the toss has anticipated that move (it's my only real option after all). If he has gone colossus, NOW is the time I can attack. But usually his defenders advantage is enough to beat me back. I win here, if I can draw him out of position with drops. Vs templar tech, I have to wait for that very small window where I have 4+ ghosts with cloak and 125+ energy and +2/+2 so that I can attack on even upgrades before toss either gets +3/+3 or colossus or both. Depending on the game, this window also might not exist.
That's usually how my 'macro' TvP goes. I hadn't played in Season 4+5 really and have started in 6 again. Therefore I got demoted to diamond but as my skills returned, I could beat many protoss in the drop phase (3). My problem with the macro approach is that I give up my chance to pressure by fast expanding. I guess I will have to go for startport right away before I start stim research. The only problem there is that if the protoss pushes me with a timing attack and I have no stim, I'm dead - except if I see it coming miles away and have 4+ bunkers.
As a terran I would like to have a unit that forces a reaction from the protoss. Something like the templar that forces ghosts or the colossus that forces vikings. There are many times, where I could attack, but there just comes a colossus that forces my to get vikings, delaying my attack by 2+ minutes killing my window of opportunity. I am under the impression, that the protoss can plan his complete game strategy the moment he sees a no-gas-expand and act accordingly. Also there is nothing I can do to force a protoss attack. If I take a really fast 3rd, not only am I completely vulnerable to a push, but also the toss can just take his third and even if he starts it 2 minutes later the protoss is at an advantage, because it's 2 more minutes he made towards his late game AND he has a 3rd. I tried the fast +2/+2 that was popularized by thorzain, but with the prevalence of doubleforge, you will be just even on upgrades still cannot push him and you are vulnerable to the colossus 2 base timings.
Anyhow.. that's why I feel very grim about playing macro TvP and I'm really tempted to 1-1-1 each time.
Medivacs are the unit that forces a reaction from protoss, but you need a lot (6) of them. It may seem weird but medivacs are the ultimate terran counter to zealots and force protoss to get either colossus or storm. Protoss can just beat medivacs with positioning and upgrades, but that is just the same as bio just beating colossus with positioning and upgrades.
After reading that post by merz ive lost all respect towards him... half of it went when he was overstimming his marauder heavy army against some protoss in shakuras at arena... cant remember against who though...
Ever thought you were doing something wrong? and whatabout trying to be innovative? and analyze your replays, maybe you didnt deal with some harassment well enough and came out behind or were caught out of position or just didnt engage properly...
Try not fall to the pit of blaming shit on imbalance when it very likely is you just not playing well enough or making a few critical mistakes... and anyways how the fuck can you define imbalance or balance? and what is and what isnt
On March 29 2012 09:57 TheDwf wrote: Updating statistics: from the 216 games I played this season (high Master/GM MMR on Europe, currently 1200 points Master), I played:
This has made me, like many, many others, to stop playing SC2 essentially. I play some 2v2's with buddy's every now and then, but that's it. This is killing the game in so many ways:
- It makes the game less diverse which leads to it being more repetitive. - If people stop PLAYING, it wont be long before they stop WATCHING. - If people stop watching, tournaments make less money. - If tournaments make less money, blizzard makes less money.
You would think blizzard would have done something by now.IT's gonna be a long time till HOTS. There won't be many players left by the time it comes out.
I'm just really disappointed in Blizzard. It almost seems as if they want terrans to disappear from ladder. First they nerf a race that is already struggling badly and then they also make the map pool extremely bad for Terran and keep adding more anti-terran maps.
I mean for the upcoming season are there actually any good Terran maps left? I guess Shakuras is pretty good for T, even tho stats show its pretty heavily P favoured, it's a well balanced map vs Z imo. Antiga is alright, not a T favoured map by any means but a balanced map.
Then all the rest for season 7 seems to be really anti-terran.... Tal darim: extremely unbalanced in TvP, I know the stats say its about 50% but still stats don't say everything, whens the last time you saw a terran win vs a decent protoss on tal darim? Not exactly a good map either vs Z. Meta: don't even need to talk about it, bad for T in both MUs Korhal: havn't played much on this, just seems like a bad map for T, I pretty much instantly downvoted it, seen alot of pro T streamers lose on this aswell.
I have to go now, will write some about the new maps later.
On March 29 2012 22:53 caretony wrote: I'm just really disappointed in Blizzard. It almost seems as if they want terrans to disappear from ladder. First they nerf a race that is already struggling badly and then they also make the map pool extremely bad for Terran and keep adding more anti-terran maps.
I mean for the upcoming season are there actually any good Terran maps left? I guess Shakuras is pretty good for T, even tho stats show its pretty heavily P favoured, it's a well balanced map vs Z imo. Antiga is alright, not a T favoured map by any means but a balanced map.
Then all the rest for season 7 seems to be really anti-terran.... Tal darim: extremely unbalanced in TvP, I know the stats say its about 50% but still stats don't say everything, whens the last time you saw a terran win vs a decent protoss on tal darim? Not exactly a good map either vs Z. Meta: don't even need to talk about it, bad for T in both MUs Korhal: havn't played much on this, just seems like a bad map for T, I pretty much instantly downvoted it, seen alot of pro T streamers lose on this aswell.
I have to go now, will write some about the new maps later.
I actually posted about this issue a while ago. It was on a different forum, but here's my post anyway:
I did analyze it from all povs. Zerg on korhal for example has alot of counter attack paths and the third and fourth are extremely hard to take for both protoss and terran. That's a fact. On Cloud Kingdom, terran and protoss get 3 free bases, but the fourth is almost impossible to take for terran in any matchup. This is also a fact. Antiga is a good map for terran, I pointed that out and so are shakuras and shattered to some extent. However, most of the other ladder maps are bad for terran. It's impossible to argue that daybreak is good for terran or metropolis is good for terran (both maps are bad for terran). I don't see what's wrong about pointing out that some maps favor certain races, the ladder mappool is extremely good for Zerg, extremely good and bad for terran. All the good terran maps were removed (or most of them) and replaced with Zerg favored maps, or can you actually refute that argument and tell me how korhal, cloud kingdom, metropolis, tal darim or daybreak favor terran in any way? And like I said, they should not go from one extreme to another and just make every 3rd or 4th impossible to take for slower armies... it used to be a problem that terran could take a center expo on XNC and siege up the zergs third directly, however the new maps are the complete opposite, you ALWAYS expand away from the zerg's third or fourth base which is obviously bad for terran.
And keep this on topic? Stop smoking weed dude, I'm talking about maps in a thread about maps, herp derp.
edit: And I completely forgot to mention Metalopolis, that's another extremely Zerg favored map, remember when Blizzard said that Zerg has a 60%+ win rate in all matchups on Metalopolis? How could anyone argue that the current ladder pool does not heavily favor zerg when pretty much 80% of the maps are zerg maps. Mind-boggling, really
edit2: Before you say anything else, let's just go through the statistics for all the ladder maps in season 7.
Z favored in TvZ Z favore in PvZ Balanced in TvP (50.3% win rate)
Metropolis - not enough data (only around 15 games per matchup, but I can assure you that it's good for Zerg, it's basically metalopolis just slightly different)
Korhal Compound - not enough data (only around 10 games per matchup, but you know I'd assume it's Z favored in all Matchups, absolutely not sure about TvP)
Entombed Valley - not enough data, can't really tell, but from the roughly 30 games per MU in TLPD it actually seems to favor Zerg, however that's only 30 games, so I won't count that
So 9x Zerg is favored, 4x Terran, 4x Protoss. And I didn't even count Korhal (which is obviously Z favored, but we don't have enough data), Metropolis (aka Metalopolis 2) and Entombed Valley (which statistically ~30 games seems to be Zerg favored too in both matchups - but I won't count that yet). Now please tell me that the ladder pool isn't extremely Zerg favored.
Zerg is favored in 9 of their matchups and only not favored in 3 matchups (terran AND protoss combined), now please tell me that the ladder maps aren't absolute bullshit and it will be even worse in season 7 (as shown by the stats), Zerg is basically favored on almost every map in the mappool, don't you see how ridiculous that is?#
edit3: Both, Protoss and Terran will have a 90% chance that they have to play on a Zerg favored map in season 7, don't you see how that is... I don't know... a little bit unfair?
It seems like the new map pool heavily favors Zerg over Terran and Protoss, to an extent where you can actually argue that the map pool is extremely unfair.
On March 29 2012 22:53 caretony wrote: I'm just really disappointed in Blizzard. It almost seems as if they want terrans to disappear from ladder. First they nerf a race that is already struggling badly and then they also make the map pool extremely bad for Terran and keep adding more anti-terran maps.
I mean for the upcoming season are there actually any good Terran maps left? I guess Shakuras is pretty good for T, even tho stats show its pretty heavily P favoured, it's a well balanced map vs Z imo. Antiga is alright, not a T favoured map by any means but a balanced map.
Then all the rest for season 7 seems to be really anti-terran.... Tal darim: extremely unbalanced in TvP, I know the stats say its about 50% but still stats don't say everything, whens the last time you saw a terran win vs a decent protoss on tal darim? Not exactly a good map either vs Z. Meta: don't even need to talk about it, bad for T in both MUs Korhal: havn't played much on this, just seems like a bad map for T, I pretty much instantly downvoted it, seen alot of pro T streamers lose on this aswell.
I have to go now, will write some about the new maps later.
I actually posted about this issue a while ago. It was on a different forum, but here's my post anyway:
I did analyze it from all povs. Zerg on korhal for example has alot of counter attack paths and the third and fourth are extremely hard to take for both protoss and terran. That's a fact. On Cloud Kingdom, terran and protoss get 3 free bases, but the fourth is almost impossible to take for terran in any matchup. This is also a fact. Antiga is a good map for terran, I pointed that out and so are shakuras and shattered to some extent. However, most of the other ladder maps are bad for terran. It's impossible to argue that daybreak is good for terran or metropolis is good for terran (both maps are bad for terran). I don't see what's wrong about pointing out that some maps favor certain races, the ladder mappool is extremely good for Zerg, extremely good and bad for terran. All the good terran maps were removed (or most of them) and replaced with Zerg favored maps, or can you actually refute that argument and tell me how korhal, cloud kingdom, metropolis, tal darim or daybreak favor terran in any way? And like I said, they should not go from one extreme to another and just make every 3rd or 4th impossible to take for slower armies... it used to be a problem that terran could take a center expo on XNC and siege up the zergs third directly, however the new maps are the complete opposite, you ALWAYS expand away from the zerg's third or fourth base which is obviously bad for terran.
And keep this on topic? Stop smoking weed dude, I'm talking about maps in a thread about maps, herp derp.
edit: And I completely forgot to mention Metalopolis, that's another extremely Zerg favored map, remember when Blizzard said that Zerg has a 60%+ win rate in all matchups on Metalopolis? How could anyone argue that the current ladder pool does not heavily favor zerg when pretty much 80% of the maps are zerg maps. Mind-boggling, really
edit2: Before you say anything else, let's just go through the statistics for all the ladder maps in season 7.
Z favored in TvZ Z favore in PvZ Balanced in TvP (50.3% win rate)
Metropolis - not enough data (only around 15 games per matchup, but I can assure you that it's good for Zerg, it's basically metalopolis just slightly different)
Korhal Compound - not enough data (only around 10 games per matchup, but you know I'd assume it's Z favored in all Matchups, absolutely not sure about TvP)
Entombed Valley - not enough data, can't really tell, but from the roughly 30 games per MU in TLPD it actually seems to favor Zerg, however that's only 30 games, so I won't count that
So 9x Zerg is favored, 4x Terran, 4x Protoss. And I didn't even count Korhal (which is obviously Z favored, but we don't have enough data), Metropolis (aka Metalopolis 2) and Entombed Valley (which statistically ~30 games seems to be Zerg favored too in both matchups - but I won't count that yet). Now please tell me that the ladder pool isn't extremely Zerg favored.
Zerg is favored in 9 of their matchups and only not favored in 3 matchups (terran AND protoss combined), now please tell me that the ladder maps aren't absolute bullshit and it will be even worse in season 7 (as shown by the stats), Zerg is basically favored on almost every map in the mappool, don't you see how ridiculous that is?#
edit3: Both, Protoss and Terran will have a 90% chance that they have to play on a Zerg favored map in season 7, don't you see how that is... I don't know... a little bit unfair?
It seems like the new map pool heavily favors Zerg over Terran and Protoss, to an extent where you can actually argue that the map pool is extremely unfair.
It would help if the links would actually lead somewhere
On March 29 2012 22:53 caretony wrote: I'm just really disappointed in Blizzard. It almost seems as if they want terrans to disappear from ladder. First they nerf a race that is already struggling badly and then they also make the map pool extremely bad for Terran and keep adding more anti-terran maps.
I mean for the upcoming season are there actually any good Terran maps left? I guess Shakuras is pretty good for T, even tho stats show its pretty heavily P favoured, it's a well balanced map vs Z imo. Antiga is alright, not a T favoured map by any means but a balanced map.
Then all the rest for season 7 seems to be really anti-terran.... Tal darim: extremely unbalanced in TvP, I know the stats say its about 50% but still stats don't say everything, whens the last time you saw a terran win vs a decent protoss on tal darim? Not exactly a good map either vs Z. Meta: don't even need to talk about it, bad for T in both MUs Korhal: havn't played much on this, just seems like a bad map for T, I pretty much instantly downvoted it, seen alot of pro T streamers lose on this aswell.
I have to go now, will write some about the new maps later.
I actually posted about this issue a while ago. It was on a different forum, but here's my post anyway:
I did analyze it from all povs. Zerg on korhal for example has alot of counter attack paths and the third and fourth are extremely hard to take for both protoss and terran. That's a fact. On Cloud Kingdom, terran and protoss get 3 free bases, but the fourth is almost impossible to take for terran in any matchup. This is also a fact. Antiga is a good map for terran, I pointed that out and so are shakuras and shattered to some extent. However, most of the other ladder maps are bad for terran. It's impossible to argue that daybreak is good for terran or metropolis is good for terran (both maps are bad for terran). I don't see what's wrong about pointing out that some maps favor certain races, the ladder mappool is extremely good for Zerg, extremely good and bad for terran. All the good terran maps were removed (or most of them) and replaced with Zerg favored maps, or can you actually refute that argument and tell me how korhal, cloud kingdom, metropolis, tal darim or daybreak favor terran in any way? And like I said, they should not go from one extreme to another and just make every 3rd or 4th impossible to take for slower armies... it used to be a problem that terran could take a center expo on XNC and siege up the zergs third directly, however the new maps are the complete opposite, you ALWAYS expand away from the zerg's third or fourth base which is obviously bad for terran.
And keep this on topic? Stop smoking weed dude, I'm talking about maps in a thread about maps, herp derp.
edit: And I completely forgot to mention Metalopolis, that's another extremely Zerg favored map, remember when Blizzard said that Zerg has a 60%+ win rate in all matchups on Metalopolis? How could anyone argue that the current ladder pool does not heavily favor zerg when pretty much 80% of the maps are zerg maps. Mind-boggling, really
edit2: Before you say anything else, let's just go through the statistics for all the ladder maps in season 7.
Z favored in TvZ Z favore in PvZ Balanced in TvP (50.3% win rate)
Metropolis - not enough data (only around 15 games per matchup, but I can assure you that it's good for Zerg, it's basically metalopolis just slightly different)
Korhal Compound - not enough data (only around 10 games per matchup, but you know I'd assume it's Z favored in all Matchups, absolutely not sure about TvP)
Entombed Valley - not enough data, can't really tell, but from the roughly 30 games per MU in TLPD it actually seems to favor Zerg, however that's only 30 games, so I won't count that
So 9x Zerg is favored, 4x Terran, 4x Protoss. And I didn't even count Korhal (which is obviously Z favored, but we don't have enough data), Metropolis (aka Metalopolis 2) and Entombed Valley (which statistically ~30 games seems to be Zerg favored too in both matchups - but I won't count that yet). Now please tell me that the ladder pool isn't extremely Zerg favored.
Zerg is favored in 9 of their matchups and only not favored in 3 matchups (terran AND protoss combined), now please tell me that the ladder maps aren't absolute bullshit and it will be even worse in season 7 (as shown by the stats), Zerg is basically favored on almost every map in the mappool, don't you see how ridiculous that is?#
edit3: Both, Protoss and Terran will have a 90% chance that they have to play on a Zerg favored map in season 7, don't you see how that is... I don't know... a little bit unfair?
It seems like the new map pool heavily favors Zerg over Terran and Protoss, to an extent where you can actually argue that the map pool is extremely unfair.
It would help if the links would actually lead somewhere
Oh yes, I apologize for that. I didn't realize that it cut off the links when I copypasta'd it. I basically just used the links to the TLPD international maps.
EPT
.
