Where did all of the terrans go? - Page 160

On March 29 2012 07:10 SupLilSon wrote:
Not to mention, I don't recall MKP playing any late game TvPs. He always seemed to win early or mid game through superior unit control. But admittedly, I didn't catch all his games. If he played any 25+ minute TvPs against a competent opponent I'd definitely be interested.

On March 29 2012 07:07 KDrake wrote:


No, that's because MarineKingPrime is freaking amazing, one of the best Terran players on the face of the planet with absolutely incredibly unit control and macro. He also plays the game full time and is paid to do so. For 99%+ of the player base, late game TvP is too hard to handle with any success.

Protoss isn't imbalanced, they're just at a great advantage in the late game against Terran, save for the very top few players in the world.

I don't understand why you feel the need to be sarcastic, taunt and be confrontational toward people who are attempting to have a discussion and share viewpoints.

On March 29 2012 07:18 NeMeSiS3 wrote:


I don't understand how you remove my first paragraph to singularly pick apart the other half in a way to sensationalize it like all I ment was "be mkp" and if you read what I was replying to, it was exactly what you are insinuating, that all i'm doing is taunting people.

"Protoss isn't imbalanced, they're just at a great advantage in the late game against Terran, save for the very top few players in the world."

Maybe you should not state things as "fact" in such a way... I have terran friends in high masters, and I haven't seen to many complaining... Seems to be diamond and below, and a very seldom few pros. Demuslim? yeah sure, he's mediocore, last time I checked when he lost to Bling in the game everyone references, he lost his battle and 1 battle does matter in TvZ TvP and TvT, if you lose the final big engagement, your out gg...

Anywho, your "opinion" is yours so keep running with it, and see how far you improve.

On March 29 2012 07:18 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
I don't understand how you remove my first paragraph to singularly pick apart the other half in a way to sensationalize it like all I ment was "be mkp" and if you read what I was replying to, it was exactly what you are insinuating, that all i'm doing is taunting people.

Maybe you should not state things as "fact" in such a way... I have terran friends in high masters, and I haven't seen to many complaining... Seems to be diamond and below, and a very seldom few pros. Demuslim? yeah sure, he's mediocore, last time I checked when he lost to Bling in the game everyone references, he lost his battle and 1 battle does matter in TvZ TvP and TvT, if you lose the final big engagement, your out gg...

Anywho, your "opinion" is yours so keep running with it, and see how far you improve.

On March 29 2012 07:35 KDrake wrote:


I didn't respond to the first point because I had nothing to say about it. You stated a fact, playing games against different races is different. I responded to your second paragraph because I had something to say about it. Does that make sense? Would if have been better if I'd said "Yes, I agree"? I'm sorry that I annoyed you.



So you wouldn't have taken issue if I'd added "in my opinion" first? Terran having issues with late game Protoss is at least as far as I'm aware fairly common knowledge. After reading about it so many zillions of times in this thread and others here on TL, on the b.net forums (despite them being trash there's still a few reasonable people to be found) and hearing professional players that I look up to express frustration with the exact same difficulties I myself am experiencing then I feel fairly confident in my statement. When your own experiences are confirmed by the testimony of others, including professional players, it tends to give one a sense that there's some truth to the matter at hand.

I'm glad that you have Terran friends in high Masters that aren't having issues, I applaud them and envy their skill. But this problem isn't made up and I'm utterly unable to comprehend how it is that some aren't seeing the issue. =(

On March 29 2012 07:39 NeMeSiS3 wrote:


Perhaps mentality is the issue, strong players survive... In 2007 in BW, when blizzard wasn't babying zergs, protosses or terrans Zerg was being DOMINATED in the pro scene, absolutely crushed, everyone said ti was the weakest race, hadn't won in forever... So if this was happening then, you'd be on the side crying and complaining about how unfair your life is, then we have a man named Saviour come in, a man who DOMINATED everyone, crushed souls and revolutionized the game. You want to be better, be better... Don't cry about the game and hope it so.

On March 29 2012 07:44 OtoshimonoU wrote:


Basically, you need to be good as pros.

On March 29 2012 07:46 NeMeSiS3 wrote:


BW is balanced is it not, are you trying to dumb the game down to be shitty? Are you asking to do that, so you are better? Game needs to be balanced on a razers edge, just like BW, so pro players are even, not to deal with your minor complaints as a player... You go tell BW terran needs upgrading because it is the hardest race for bad players to play. See the response in that community you get.

On March 29 2012 07:54 SupLilSon wrote:


???

Terran is perceived as the most challenging race at many tiers of skill. This perception could cause some Terran users, mainly the casual variety (ie. not the pros, not Savior, not pro bw Terrans) to either stop playing 1v1 or switch to another race they feel will be less frustrating. We're not crying for Terran buffs. The OP wanted to know why Terran seems to be under represented in the general SC2 population and that's the topic. BW balance is pretty irrelevant to that.

On March 29 2012 07:39 NeMeSiS3 wrote:


Perhaps mentality is the issue, strong players survive... In 2007 in BW, when blizzard wasn't babying zergs, protosses or terrans Zerg was being DOMINATED in the pro scene, absolutely crushed, everyone said ti was the weakest race, hadn't won in forever... So if this was happening then, you'd be on the side crying and complaining about how unfair your life is, then we have a man named Saviour come in, a man who DOMINATED everyone, crushed souls and revolutionized the game. You want to be better, be better... Don't cry about the game and hope it so.

On March 29 2012 08:04 Bluerain wrote:
the game can and should only be balanced for the top players. if we balance for say GM then the masters will complain, if u balance to masters, then diamond will complain, see the pattern? whats next? balancing for 2v2, 3v3, ffa, and sub master leagues? sadly i think blizz said that the void ray speed was a balance for team games meh.

On March 29 2012 07:46 NeMeSiS3 wrote:


BW is balanced is it not, are you trying to dumb the game down to be shitty? Are you asking to do that, so you are better? Game needs to be balanced on a razers edge, just like BW, so pro players are even, not to deal with your minor complaints as a player... You go tell BW terran needs upgrading because it is the hardest race for bad players to play. See the response in that community you get.

On March 29 2012 08:04 Bluerain wrote:
the game can and should only be balanced for the top players. if we balance for say GM then the masters will complain, if u balance to masters, then diamond will complain, see the pattern? whats next? balancing for 2v2, 3v3, ffa, and sub master leagues? sadly i think blizz said that the void ray speed was a balance for team games meh.

the only reason ppl are even considering the complaints of these european "pros" who are complaining about terran being weak is that right now the foreign scene isnt that far behind the korean scene. but thats gonna change once the BW players switch over. b4, when the foreign BW players were on such a lower level than the koreans, would anyone even take their balance complaints seriously?

honestly, protoss looks overpowered right now but to use "terrans disappearing from ladder" as evidence is laughable.

On March 29 2012 08:17 Ghanburighan wrote:


I don't see what you, Nemesis, Plansix, -.- etc are doing in this thread. You're obviously not reading it. You're not contributing to it. All you do is pick fight on balance, which wasn't discussed until Plansix and -.- refused to shut up about it. If you don't want balance whine in this thread, stop talking about balance. This thread was fine before you guys came in and took a great big shit in the middle of it.

Can we now go back to actually looking at the ladder populations?

On March 29 2012 08:15 Apollo147 wrote:
Umm wtf does BW have to do with SC2?

Secondly I think the disparity in the TvP late games stims from the fact Terrans(myself included) stick to tier 1 units, marines/maradures, with a couple of tier 2 units sprinkled in the mid game. Terrans don't have a t3 unit that works well with bio aka thor/bc. On the other hand Protoss have both temps and Colossus which work REALLY well in the mid to late game. Both of which force terran into a counter that is weak against Protoss' overall comp. What I'm trying to say I guess is Protoss dictates which units Terran HAS to build. A fine line that is difficult to walk as a Terran considering getting the comp wrong in even one engagement means you lose. Plus with MMM you have to keep Protoss low on tech units even if that means sacrificing your own units to do so because even with a perfect comp 200 to 200 I believe Protoss always comes out on top.

So I would love to see other strategies such as mech or sky terran become more viable in the TvP matchup through unit change or maybe in HotS with new units. To force the Protoss to be more adaptive instead of the Terran.

Another thing that bugs me about the match-up is when I lose in a TvT or a TvZ I usually know why I lost, but against Protoss a lot of the time it feels like I couldn't have done anything better and yet my army still gets crushed.

Anyways I know I ramble on, but that's I feel from a Terran perspective.

P.S. I feel in my own games and I've seen watching pro games that most Terrans have to win or take a huge lead before or in the mid game if they want to take the win. Maybe I'm wrong.

On March 29 2012 07:44 OtoshimonoU wrote:


Basically, you need to be good as pros.

On March 29 2012 07:58 NeMeSiS3 wrote:


You didn't answer my question, are you trying to dumb down the terran race in general? Are you asking to dumb the entire game down so casual players have an easy time? My comparision is BW, where Terran again is the hardest race to play, and I bet if you made a forum asking why don't we balance terran in a way where it is simple you'd get a reply much worse than mine in response to such an outlandish claim. If there is room for improvement, improve. Balance is based on things you can't help, having an advantage and just plain losing, well playing perfect. Imperfection =/= unbalanced

So if casual players want to leave, leave... Pro play can't be hindered so you can have a "fun" time. This is not MW3, or an arcade shooter... You don't just get brownie points for sucking, you lose points and if that makes you upset, stop playing it's just a video game.

On March 29 2012 08:19 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
What does anything old tell us about its next evolution, nothing in your opinion obviously... Let's just go back to making cars steer with a lever instead of a wheel : ) They compare, so I compare them. Did you even play BW?