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It would be so fckn great if blizzard could implement a system where the the player could choose which match-up he wants to play. Then I would not be forced to play any more TvP. I have played 2 TvT in my 20 latest games , TvT is my best MU but I never get to play it. I have even refrained from playing on ladder for a while now just because of TvP.
I'm, not even calling IMBA on anything but I really don´t want to play vs protoss but I want to play this game wow I'm so sad. Evey terran is really bad at this MU, watching streams and tourneys I can´t find any player who shows how lategame TvP should be played, everyone just gets stormed to death because their micro and unit control is inferior to the protoss, I don't care if you are MKP, MVP, MMA or just myself who can't even hold a 50% win rate vs diamond toss because we are too bad.
Then there are of course the random funny guys who appears in forums with their 95% win rate in TvP when playing mech....derp (artosis smurfs)
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On March 25 2012 10:19 ChaosTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 10:14 LightSpectra wrote:On March 25 2012 10:11 ChaosTerran wrote:
and absolutely nobody below pro level uses HT warp prism play, and again HTs dont wander off, what part of that don't you understand? It's physically impossible for the slowest unit in your army to "wander off" that's just nonsense. So again, high-level Protoss play requires micro, as you just said. Thus refuting, once more, the notion that PvT just requires a deathball a-move. Anyway, post a link to your "terran master league account" or I'm done with you, this blatant trolling is getting on my nerves. Don't listen to me. Really. There's GM and pros calling you out on your shit right now, so I'm wasting both of our time. I don't care about the highest level of play and that's not even the point, the point is that every gold league shmock can control a protoss army well enough to beat a way better player. And again, nobody is calling me out on anything, the only person replying to me is YOU.
I hate to have to speak with you, but you're the one who's pretty much flaming non stop in this thread since the beginning. You refuse to discuss with Protoss players for one, and plus you prevent more reasonable and more skilled Terrans than you to contribute. I don't read much of what you're saying because it will most likely be "Protoss A-move noob hahahahaha" and honestly, we both know that nobody will make you change your stance.
What's your purpose here? You want Protosses to publicly admit that they're no skilled brainless scrubs? Or you want Blizzard to hear your (quite loud) complains and make changes that will fit the great ChaosTerran?
You can think that Protoss is OP without flaming them like they're not even human beings. Just present your arguments without sounding like a douchebag and accept obvious facts like "Protoss does have to micro sometimes". I too think that Protoss is very favored in lower level (I think that it evens up in high masters though, while you seem to think that TvP is fine only at the very highest GSL-like levels, which "you don't care about"). Just to say that I somewhat share your opinions. I just don't share your ways to go about it.
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On March 25 2012 10:27 Ouga wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 10:18 Yosho wrote:
This is turning into a flame war and I won't be part of this further. If you have an issue take it to my pm. Peace~  Over and over people bother to prove points over and over to lesser player, yet in the end he ignores everything and claims others are flamers and trolls. It's you who ruin TL forums, reason why good players actually can't post here since the flood of trash overcomes the actual good arguments such as what mazqo originally wrote.
please take it to my pm. and lol.
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On March 25 2012 10:19 ChaosTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 10:14 LightSpectra wrote:On March 25 2012 10:11 ChaosTerran wrote:
and absolutely nobody below pro level uses HT warp prism play, and again HTs dont wander off, what part of that don't you understand? It's physically impossible for the slowest unit in your army to "wander off" that's just nonsense. So again, high-level Protoss play requires micro, as you just said. Thus refuting, once more, the notion that PvT just requires a deathball a-move. Anyway, post a link to your "terran master league account" or I'm done with you, this blatant trolling is getting on my nerves. Don't listen to me. Really. There's GM and pros calling you out on your shit right now, so I'm wasting both of our time. I don't care about the highest level of play and that's not even the point, the point is that every gold league shmock can control a protoss army well enough to beat a way better player. And again, nobody is calling me out on anything, the only person replying to me is YOU.
You know what? He might... But I don't see that's different from me losing constantly on ladder in PvZ to 3base roach timings. Either I blind counter it - or else I die - or else I try to counter it and a flock of mutas hit my mineral lines, while I'm chronoboosting immortals (yay) - HOWEVER, when I can see professional protoss players actually occantionally being able to survive 3base roach I can't really claim imbaimba, can I? No... I can state it's way easier to mass roaches than it is to hold it off... But I can't really say imba, when the game is balanced around the highest skill level. How would professional games look if they balanced the game around gold?
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On March 25 2012 10:27 Ouga wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 10:18 Yosho wrote:
This is turning into a flame war and I won't be part of this further. If you have an issue take it to my pm. Peace~ Over and over people bother to prove points over and over to lesser player, yet in the end he ignores everything and claims others are flamers and trolls. It's you who ruin TL forums, reason why good players actually can't post here since the flood of trash overcomes the actual good arguments such as what mazqo originally wrote.
First off, let me say I'm not disputing the guy has a 1k Master Terran account.
1000 point Master on NA isn't anything impressive. Mediocore I'd say. How did he get the account to 1k? I've beat plenty of big name Protosses on ladder doing 1/1/1 with probably a 70%ish WLR. Change it to a macro game and I'm probably 25-30% WLR vs these guys.
Regardless, I would be more inclined to listen to players such as Jinro, Beastyqt, etc about balance issues, opposed to some 1k Master.
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I cant undestand why people are pulling their e-peen to justify their arguments, like if basic logic is closely correlated to how well u play the game.
Also if u really want to go that way, there are plenty of high level players like BeastyQt, Cloud, QXC, etc. that share similar concerns with the ones posted by various terrans in this thread.
On March 25 2012 08:31 naama- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 06:33 mazqo wrote:
All your QQ'ing about protoss being easier and overpowered and amoves over terran is just your unknowledge about how your race works and how protoss works. You make wrong unit composition, you dont know few things how you should fight, you dont abuse orbitals etc so you always make the same mistakes even when you dont know that you are making them. When you realize these things, matchup will become much more easier and you dont need to have 200 eAPM in fights and kite the hell out of your units and one misclick wont lose you the game.
For example, lets take 20 warp gates. You won a fight, but you have 20 units left and no medivacs nor vikigns remaining. Should you push? No because he will warp 20 units and kill your units. What you should do is remax 200/200 again, maybe try to deny his bases because if he warped 20 units to his natural, he cant warp 20 units to his base that he is trying to build. So when is good time to try to finish the game? When you win a fight with many units left. You have medics healing all your units to full hp. You have vikings left to kill colos. You have marines and marauders to kite zealots etc. (in 200/200 you dont need ot kite zealots, because they will die fast to 3-3 marines and ghosts, but in smaller fights you do.).
How will you win a fight with like that? Play defensive when toss has his 3bases saturated and +8 gateways and few colos, unless you get advantige before that. Max with 10 ghosts, 14 vikings, 1:4 marauder:marines. Leave marauders in front and marines back. Its huge that few marauders tanks colo hits rather than 5 marines that gets instakilled. Then just press stim when your opponent suicides his units to your defensive posture, scan his army and emp/snipe HT's.
So. What if toss doesnt attack? When you are near maxed. Start building macro orbitals since you will start floating minerals when you are making vikings and ghosts and 3-3 upgrades. Kill ~25scv's so you have around 40-45 scv's vs protoss's 75. Which means you have 30 supply bigger army. Now start moving out and take 4th and 5th etc and fight if toss doesnt camp with cannons at some location. If he does, you can try to move around him and get him in bad position, but dont attack to protoss army when he is spreaded out and sitting over cannons.
What should you do in fight? You can move around with vikings on move command to follow your army. so you can move with 2 control groups, ghosts and bio+medic. You only have to do 4 things to win a fight.
1. Scan his army to see where his ghosts are at etc..
2. Press stim
3. CTRL click your marines and move them behind marauders and press stop, now they are safe from splash.
4. Spam EMP with priority: 1. HT's 2. Rest - its also good to try to emp colos so they die to less hits from vikings.
Only time you would want to kite is when there are ht's and your ghosts are stuck behind your army and you cant emp them because your army is blocking your own ghosts.
You should never lose a fight when:
- Opponent doesnt get any storms. (because of emp or he has no HT's)
- You get cloaked ghosts next to your opponents army because he has no observer (Observer snipe is bonus, and if you think you are good enough to snipe his observer, then do this) - If you scan him and see he has no observer. You should win the game easily. Good post, really helpful
While this might be "helpful" as general tips it adds nothing to the thread and infact in this context just sounds silly, it pretty much says: "You guys are saying that protoss is just a-move? Rubbish! You just need to understand protoss and do X and Y and Z and play flawlesly".
If i really wanted to nitpick the issue, i would say that advice regarding the 20 warp gates, makes sense, IF you are atacking, but last time i checked you can warp in directly by the enemy base, wich protip, was an issue discussed negatively in this thread, and the rest is pretty much "HEY GUYS YOU DONT NEED 200APM YOU JUST NEED SICK CONTROL", i mean seriously writing " scan his HT, EMP all of them, snipe his observer" is easy, doing it, is something that is even an issue for a pro, and he for some reason forgets to mention that meanwhile the protoss just has to a-move and cast storms WICH IS PRETTY MUCH THE MAIN ISSUE DISCUSSED HERE
also
+ Show Spoiler +nobody here asked for tips
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On March 25 2012 10:32 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 10:19 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 25 2012 10:14 LightSpectra wrote:On March 25 2012 10:11 ChaosTerran wrote:
and absolutely nobody below pro level uses HT warp prism play, and again HTs dont wander off, what part of that don't you understand? It's physically impossible for the slowest unit in your army to "wander off" that's just nonsense. So again, high-level Protoss play requires micro, as you just said. Thus refuting, once more, the notion that PvT just requires a deathball a-move. Anyway, post a link to your "terran master league account" or I'm done with you, this blatant trolling is getting on my nerves. Don't listen to me. Really. There's GM and pros calling you out on your shit right now, so I'm wasting both of our time. I don't care about the highest level of play and that's not even the point, the point is that every gold league shmock can control a protoss army well enough to beat a way better player. And again, nobody is calling me out on anything, the only person replying to me is YOU. I hate to have to speak with you, but you're the one who's pretty much flaming non stop in this thread since the beginning. You refuse to discuss with Protoss players for one, and plus you prevent more reasonable and more skilled Terrans than you to contribute. I don't read much of what you're saying because it will most likely be "Protoss A-move noob hahahahaha" and honestly, we both know that nobody will make you change your stance. What's your purpose here? You want Protosses to publicly admit that they're no skilled brainless scrubs? Or you want Blizzard to hear your (quite loud) complains and make changes that will fit the great ChaosTerran? You can think that Protoss is OP without flaming them like they're not even human beings. Just present your arguments without sounding like a douchebag and accept obvious facts like "Protoss does have to micro sometimes". I too think that Protoss is very favored in lower level (I think that it evens up in high masters though, while you seem to think that TvP is fine only at the very highest GSL-like levels, which "you don't care about"). Just to say that I somewhat share your opinions. I just don't share your ways to go about it.
Well, I have logically refuted his argument. Now you coming out with some random ad hominem attacks doesn't really change that, does it? The guy said something which is obviously wrong. I didn't only just refute his argument, I actually exposed him as a liar, who lied about his race and rank. Now, I don't see why exactly you expect me to have a serious discussion with someone after I found out that they were lying to me since the very beginning of our initial discussion. At that point I don't see why I should discuss anything with this person. He was obviously trolling, or else he wouldn't blatantly lie about stuff like this. This by the way, is the second time in this thread where I have exposed someone who lied about their race and rank, I don't fall for these shennanigans so people either stop trolling or I will keep exposing them, but don't expect a serious discussion about the game when people in this thread aren't even mature enough to not lie about their race and rank.
edit: I mean, I knew for a fact that this guy is not a master league terran simply because of how wrong his post was. Turns out he isn't in masters and he doesn't even play terran. Now, you tell me, if I'm really that biased then how come that I can logically expose liars, simply by reading their posts about the game? You'd think that this is impossible for someone who, according to you, only thinks in black and white. And this by the way isn't the first time I've exposed a liar here and I can immediately smell this bullshit, when a post is full of nonsense then it's really easy to tell that the guy is not what he pretends to be,
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I think people have gone way off-topic here. We need to discuss or theorize why terrans disappear, and why, as it's a zero-sum game in some way (with percentages), zerg and protoss players increase.
Pro level is not something to be talked about in this tbh as it's out of our league, literally, you can't expect T to be like MMA, or P like MC or whatever, focus on the average player. Use statistics, sources, well thought out stuff, blizzard statements and so forth to backup your shit, otherwise we won't believe you.
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On March 25 2012 10:48 ChaosTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 10:32 ZenithM wrote:On March 25 2012 10:19 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 25 2012 10:14 LightSpectra wrote:On March 25 2012 10:11 ChaosTerran wrote:
and absolutely nobody below pro level uses HT warp prism play, and again HTs dont wander off, what part of that don't you understand? It's physically impossible for the slowest unit in your army to "wander off" that's just nonsense. So again, high-level Protoss play requires micro, as you just said. Thus refuting, once more, the notion that PvT just requires a deathball a-move. Anyway, post a link to your "terran master league account" or I'm done with you, this blatant trolling is getting on my nerves. Don't listen to me. Really. There's GM and pros calling you out on your shit right now, so I'm wasting both of our time. I don't care about the highest level of play and that's not even the point, the point is that every gold league shmock can control a protoss army well enough to beat a way better player. And again, nobody is calling me out on anything, the only person replying to me is YOU. I hate to have to speak with you, but you're the one who's pretty much flaming non stop in this thread since the beginning. You refuse to discuss with Protoss players for one, and plus you prevent more reasonable and more skilled Terrans than you to contribute. I don't read much of what you're saying because it will most likely be "Protoss A-move noob hahahahaha" and honestly, we both know that nobody will make you change your stance. What's your purpose here? You want Protosses to publicly admit that they're no skilled brainless scrubs? Or you want Blizzard to hear your (quite loud) complains and make changes that will fit the great ChaosTerran? You can think that Protoss is OP without flaming them like they're not even human beings. Just present your arguments without sounding like a douchebag and accept obvious facts like "Protoss does have to micro sometimes". I too think that Protoss is very favored in lower level (I think that it evens up in high masters though, while you seem to think that TvP is fine only at the very highest GSL-like levels, which "you don't care about"). Just to say that I somewhat share your opinions. I just don't share your ways to go about it. Well, I have logically refuted his argument. Now you coming out with some random ad hominem attacks doesn't really change that, does it? The guy said something which is obviously wrong. I didn't only just refute his argument, I actually exposed him as a liar, who lied about his race and rank. Now, I don't see why exactly you expect me to have a serious discussion with someone after I found out that they were lying to me since the very beginning of our initial discussion. At that point I don't see why I should discuss anything with this person. He was obviously trolling, or else he wouldn't blatantly lie about stuff like this. This by the way, is the second time in this thread where I have exposed someone who lied about their race and rank, I don't fall for these shennanigans so people either stop trolling or I will keep exposing them, but don't expect a serious discussion about the game when people in this thread aren't even mature enough to not lie about their race and rank. edit: I mean, I knew for a fact that this guy is not a master league terran simply because of how wrong his post was. Turns out he isn't in masters and he doesn't even play terran. Now, you tell me, if I'm really that biased then how come that I can logically expose liars, simply by reading their posts about the game? You'd think that this is impossible for someone who, according to you, only think in black and white.
You really haven't exposed anyone. Did you read naama's post? Or are you talking about the guy that linked his GM account which you misread and thought it was diamond? Just wondering...
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On March 25 2012 10:58 convention wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 10:48 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 25 2012 10:32 ZenithM wrote:On March 25 2012 10:19 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 25 2012 10:14 LightSpectra wrote:On March 25 2012 10:11 ChaosTerran wrote:
and absolutely nobody below pro level uses HT warp prism play, and again HTs dont wander off, what part of that don't you understand? It's physically impossible for the slowest unit in your army to "wander off" that's just nonsense. So again, high-level Protoss play requires micro, as you just said. Thus refuting, once more, the notion that PvT just requires a deathball a-move. Anyway, post a link to your "terran master league account" or I'm done with you, this blatant trolling is getting on my nerves. Don't listen to me. Really. There's GM and pros calling you out on your shit right now, so I'm wasting both of our time. I don't care about the highest level of play and that's not even the point, the point is that every gold league shmock can control a protoss army well enough to beat a way better player. And again, nobody is calling me out on anything, the only person replying to me is YOU. I hate to have to speak with you, but you're the one who's pretty much flaming non stop in this thread since the beginning. You refuse to discuss with Protoss players for one, and plus you prevent more reasonable and more skilled Terrans than you to contribute. I don't read much of what you're saying because it will most likely be "Protoss A-move noob hahahahaha" and honestly, we both know that nobody will make you change your stance. What's your purpose here? You want Protosses to publicly admit that they're no skilled brainless scrubs? Or you want Blizzard to hear your (quite loud) complains and make changes that will fit the great ChaosTerran? You can think that Protoss is OP without flaming them like they're not even human beings. Just present your arguments without sounding like a douchebag and accept obvious facts like "Protoss does have to micro sometimes". I too think that Protoss is very favored in lower level (I think that it evens up in high masters though, while you seem to think that TvP is fine only at the very highest GSL-like levels, which "you don't care about"). Just to say that I somewhat share your opinions. I just don't share your ways to go about it. Well, I have logically refuted his argument. Now you coming out with some random ad hominem attacks doesn't really change that, does it? The guy said something which is obviously wrong. I didn't only just refute his argument, I actually exposed him as a liar, who lied about his race and rank. Now, I don't see why exactly you expect me to have a serious discussion with someone after I found out that they were lying to me since the very beginning of our initial discussion. At that point I don't see why I should discuss anything with this person. He was obviously trolling, or else he wouldn't blatantly lie about stuff like this. This by the way, is the second time in this thread where I have exposed someone who lied about their race and rank, I don't fall for these shennanigans so people either stop trolling or I will keep exposing them, but don't expect a serious discussion about the game when people in this thread aren't even mature enough to not lie about their race and rank. edit: I mean, I knew for a fact that this guy is not a master league terran simply because of how wrong his post was. Turns out he isn't in masters and he doesn't even play terran. Now, you tell me, if I'm really that biased then how come that I can logically expose liars, simply by reading their posts about the game? You'd think that this is impossible for someone who, according to you, only think in black and white. You really haven't exposed anyone. Did you read naama's post? Or are you talking about the guy that linked his GM account which you misread and thought it was diamond? Just wondering...
How about you just read. I have nothing to do with the naama discussion. READ
For all the people who are a bit slow: I AM NOT YOSHO, I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR DISCUSSION, I ONLY ARGUED WITH 1 GUY IN PARTICULAR AND NOBODY ELSE. GOT IT?
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On March 25 2012 10:59 ChaosTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 10:58 convention wrote:On March 25 2012 10:48 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 25 2012 10:32 ZenithM wrote:On March 25 2012 10:19 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 25 2012 10:14 LightSpectra wrote:On March 25 2012 10:11 ChaosTerran wrote:
and absolutely nobody below pro level uses HT warp prism play, and again HTs dont wander off, what part of that don't you understand? It's physically impossible for the slowest unit in your army to "wander off" that's just nonsense. So again, high-level Protoss play requires micro, as you just said. Thus refuting, once more, the notion that PvT just requires a deathball a-move. Anyway, post a link to your "terran master league account" or I'm done with you, this blatant trolling is getting on my nerves. Don't listen to me. Really. There's GM and pros calling you out on your shit right now, so I'm wasting both of our time. I don't care about the highest level of play and that's not even the point, the point is that every gold league shmock can control a protoss army well enough to beat a way better player. And again, nobody is calling me out on anything, the only person replying to me is YOU. I hate to have to speak with you, but you're the one who's pretty much flaming non stop in this thread since the beginning. You refuse to discuss with Protoss players for one, and plus you prevent more reasonable and more skilled Terrans than you to contribute. I don't read much of what you're saying because it will most likely be "Protoss A-move noob hahahahaha" and honestly, we both know that nobody will make you change your stance. What's your purpose here? You want Protosses to publicly admit that they're no skilled brainless scrubs? Or you want Blizzard to hear your (quite loud) complains and make changes that will fit the great ChaosTerran? You can think that Protoss is OP without flaming them like they're not even human beings. Just present your arguments without sounding like a douchebag and accept obvious facts like "Protoss does have to micro sometimes". I too think that Protoss is very favored in lower level (I think that it evens up in high masters though, while you seem to think that TvP is fine only at the very highest GSL-like levels, which "you don't care about"). Just to say that I somewhat share your opinions. I just don't share your ways to go about it. Well, I have logically refuted his argument. Now you coming out with some random ad hominem attacks doesn't really change that, does it? The guy said something which is obviously wrong. I didn't only just refute his argument, I actually exposed him as a liar, who lied about his race and rank. Now, I don't see why exactly you expect me to have a serious discussion with someone after I found out that they were lying to me since the very beginning of our initial discussion. At that point I don't see why I should discuss anything with this person. He was obviously trolling, or else he wouldn't blatantly lie about stuff like this. This by the way, is the second time in this thread where I have exposed someone who lied about their race and rank, I don't fall for these shennanigans so people either stop trolling or I will keep exposing them, but don't expect a serious discussion about the game when people in this thread aren't even mature enough to not lie about their race and rank. edit: I mean, I knew for a fact that this guy is not a master league terran simply because of how wrong his post was. Turns out he isn't in masters and he doesn't even play terran. Now, you tell me, if I'm really that biased then how come that I can logically expose liars, simply by reading their posts about the game? You'd think that this is impossible for someone who, according to you, only think in black and white. You really haven't exposed anyone. Did you read naama's post? Or are you talking about the guy that linked his GM account which you misread and thought it was diamond? Just wondering... How about you just read. I have nothing to do with the naama discussion. READ For all the people who are a bit slow: I AM NOT YOSHO, I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR DISCUSSION, I ONLY ARGUED WITH 1 GUY IN PARTICULAR AND NOBODY ELSE. GOT IT?
One of the people you "exposed" naama said he knows. That is why his post is relevant.
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On March 25 2012 11:08 convention wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 10:59 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 25 2012 10:58 convention wrote:On March 25 2012 10:48 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 25 2012 10:32 ZenithM wrote:On March 25 2012 10:19 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 25 2012 10:14 LightSpectra wrote:On March 25 2012 10:11 ChaosTerran wrote:
and absolutely nobody below pro level uses HT warp prism play, and again HTs dont wander off, what part of that don't you understand? It's physically impossible for the slowest unit in your army to "wander off" that's just nonsense. So again, high-level Protoss play requires micro, as you just said. Thus refuting, once more, the notion that PvT just requires a deathball a-move. Anyway, post a link to your "terran master league account" or I'm done with you, this blatant trolling is getting on my nerves. Don't listen to me. Really. There's GM and pros calling you out on your shit right now, so I'm wasting both of our time. I don't care about the highest level of play and that's not even the point, the point is that every gold league shmock can control a protoss army well enough to beat a way better player. And again, nobody is calling me out on anything, the only person replying to me is YOU. I hate to have to speak with you, but you're the one who's pretty much flaming non stop in this thread since the beginning. You refuse to discuss with Protoss players for one, and plus you prevent more reasonable and more skilled Terrans than you to contribute. I don't read much of what you're saying because it will most likely be "Protoss A-move noob hahahahaha" and honestly, we both know that nobody will make you change your stance. What's your purpose here? You want Protosses to publicly admit that they're no skilled brainless scrubs? Or you want Blizzard to hear your (quite loud) complains and make changes that will fit the great ChaosTerran? You can think that Protoss is OP without flaming them like they're not even human beings. Just present your arguments without sounding like a douchebag and accept obvious facts like "Protoss does have to micro sometimes". I too think that Protoss is very favored in lower level (I think that it evens up in high masters though, while you seem to think that TvP is fine only at the very highest GSL-like levels, which "you don't care about"). Just to say that I somewhat share your opinions. I just don't share your ways to go about it. Well, I have logically refuted his argument. Now you coming out with some random ad hominem attacks doesn't really change that, does it? The guy said something which is obviously wrong. I didn't only just refute his argument, I actually exposed him as a liar, who lied about his race and rank. Now, I don't see why exactly you expect me to have a serious discussion with someone after I found out that they were lying to me since the very beginning of our initial discussion. At that point I don't see why I should discuss anything with this person. He was obviously trolling, or else he wouldn't blatantly lie about stuff like this. This by the way, is the second time in this thread where I have exposed someone who lied about their race and rank, I don't fall for these shennanigans so people either stop trolling or I will keep exposing them, but don't expect a serious discussion about the game when people in this thread aren't even mature enough to not lie about their race and rank. edit: I mean, I knew for a fact that this guy is not a master league terran simply because of how wrong his post was. Turns out he isn't in masters and he doesn't even play terran. Now, you tell me, if I'm really that biased then how come that I can logically expose liars, simply by reading their posts about the game? You'd think that this is impossible for someone who, according to you, only think in black and white. You really haven't exposed anyone. Did you read naama's post? Or are you talking about the guy that linked his GM account which you misread and thought it was diamond? Just wondering... How about you just read. I have nothing to do with the naama discussion. READ For all the people who are a bit slow: I AM NOT YOSHO, I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR DISCUSSION, I ONLY ARGUED WITH 1 GUY IN PARTICULAR AND NOBODY ELSE. GOT IT? One of the people you "exposed" naama said he knows. That is why his post is relevant.
No, for god's sake. Just read the conversation. I exposed LightSpectre or whatever his name was. I had absolutely nothing to do with the naama discussion. I only ever wondered why he was linking a diamond league account. I never claimed to have exposed anyone there, in fact I didn't even post a single link.
However, I exposed LightSpectre as a liar and troll, which is what I am talking about.
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On March 25 2012 11:13 ChaosTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 11:08 convention wrote:On March 25 2012 10:59 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 25 2012 10:58 convention wrote:On March 25 2012 10:48 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 25 2012 10:32 ZenithM wrote:On March 25 2012 10:19 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 25 2012 10:14 LightSpectra wrote:On March 25 2012 10:11 ChaosTerran wrote:
and absolutely nobody below pro level uses HT warp prism play, and again HTs dont wander off, what part of that don't you understand? It's physically impossible for the slowest unit in your army to "wander off" that's just nonsense. So again, high-level Protoss play requires micro, as you just said. Thus refuting, once more, the notion that PvT just requires a deathball a-move. Anyway, post a link to your "terran master league account" or I'm done with you, this blatant trolling is getting on my nerves. Don't listen to me. Really. There's GM and pros calling you out on your shit right now, so I'm wasting both of our time. I don't care about the highest level of play and that's not even the point, the point is that every gold league shmock can control a protoss army well enough to beat a way better player. And again, nobody is calling me out on anything, the only person replying to me is YOU. I hate to have to speak with you, but you're the one who's pretty much flaming non stop in this thread since the beginning. You refuse to discuss with Protoss players for one, and plus you prevent more reasonable and more skilled Terrans than you to contribute. I don't read much of what you're saying because it will most likely be "Protoss A-move noob hahahahaha" and honestly, we both know that nobody will make you change your stance. What's your purpose here? You want Protosses to publicly admit that they're no skilled brainless scrubs? Or you want Blizzard to hear your (quite loud) complains and make changes that will fit the great ChaosTerran? You can think that Protoss is OP without flaming them like they're not even human beings. Just present your arguments without sounding like a douchebag and accept obvious facts like "Protoss does have to micro sometimes". I too think that Protoss is very favored in lower level (I think that it evens up in high masters though, while you seem to think that TvP is fine only at the very highest GSL-like levels, which "you don't care about"). Just to say that I somewhat share your opinions. I just don't share your ways to go about it. Well, I have logically refuted his argument. Now you coming out with some random ad hominem attacks doesn't really change that, does it? The guy said something which is obviously wrong. I didn't only just refute his argument, I actually exposed him as a liar, who lied about his race and rank. Now, I don't see why exactly you expect me to have a serious discussion with someone after I found out that they were lying to me since the very beginning of our initial discussion. At that point I don't see why I should discuss anything with this person. He was obviously trolling, or else he wouldn't blatantly lie about stuff like this. This by the way, is the second time in this thread where I have exposed someone who lied about their race and rank, I don't fall for these shennanigans so people either stop trolling or I will keep exposing them, but don't expect a serious discussion about the game when people in this thread aren't even mature enough to not lie about their race and rank. edit: I mean, I knew for a fact that this guy is not a master league terran simply because of how wrong his post was. Turns out he isn't in masters and he doesn't even play terran. Now, you tell me, if I'm really that biased then how come that I can logically expose liars, simply by reading their posts about the game? You'd think that this is impossible for someone who, according to you, only think in black and white. You really haven't exposed anyone. Did you read naama's post? Or are you talking about the guy that linked his GM account which you misread and thought it was diamond? Just wondering... How about you just read. I have nothing to do with the naama discussion. READ For all the people who are a bit slow: I AM NOT YOSHO, I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR DISCUSSION, I ONLY ARGUED WITH 1 GUY IN PARTICULAR AND NOBODY ELSE. GOT IT? One of the people you "exposed" naama said he knows. That is why his post is relevant. No, for god's sake. Just read the conversation. I exposed LightSpectre or whatever his name was. I had absolutely nothing to do with the naama discussion. I only ever wondered why he was linking a diamond league account. I never claimed to have exposed anyone there, in fact I didn't even post a single link. However, I exposed LightSpectre as a liar and troll, which is what I am talking about.
Well good for you then.
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"Linking diamond account" Worst possible understanding, sorry if I sometimes assume people to use their brains themselves. I posted search link instead of actual profile link, because it shows GM on both servers. There's always some moron saying that's lesser server, gm there is diamond elsewhere and stuff, so that's why. Supposed it was relevant to discussion: if mazqo doesn't want to tell his account, his friend of his level saying it pretty much proves the same. Either that, or it's just me and naama being evil trolls on this highly important TL thread. You be judge.
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On March 25 2012 11:18 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 11:13 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 25 2012 11:08 convention wrote:On March 25 2012 10:59 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 25 2012 10:58 convention wrote:On March 25 2012 10:48 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 25 2012 10:32 ZenithM wrote:On March 25 2012 10:19 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 25 2012 10:14 LightSpectra wrote:On March 25 2012 10:11 ChaosTerran wrote:
and absolutely nobody below pro level uses HT warp prism play, and again HTs dont wander off, what part of that don't you understand? It's physically impossible for the slowest unit in your army to "wander off" that's just nonsense. So again, high-level Protoss play requires micro, as you just said. Thus refuting, once more, the notion that PvT just requires a deathball a-move. Anyway, post a link to your "terran master league account" or I'm done with you, this blatant trolling is getting on my nerves. Don't listen to me. Really. There's GM and pros calling you out on your shit right now, so I'm wasting both of our time. I don't care about the highest level of play and that's not even the point, the point is that every gold league shmock can control a protoss army well enough to beat a way better player. And again, nobody is calling me out on anything, the only person replying to me is YOU. I hate to have to speak with you, but you're the one who's pretty much flaming non stop in this thread since the beginning. You refuse to discuss with Protoss players for one, and plus you prevent more reasonable and more skilled Terrans than you to contribute. I don't read much of what you're saying because it will most likely be "Protoss A-move noob hahahahaha" and honestly, we both know that nobody will make you change your stance. What's your purpose here? You want Protosses to publicly admit that they're no skilled brainless scrubs? Or you want Blizzard to hear your (quite loud) complains and make changes that will fit the great ChaosTerran? You can think that Protoss is OP without flaming them like they're not even human beings. Just present your arguments without sounding like a douchebag and accept obvious facts like "Protoss does have to micro sometimes". I too think that Protoss is very favored in lower level (I think that it evens up in high masters though, while you seem to think that TvP is fine only at the very highest GSL-like levels, which "you don't care about"). Just to say that I somewhat share your opinions. I just don't share your ways to go about it. Well, I have logically refuted his argument. Now you coming out with some random ad hominem attacks doesn't really change that, does it? The guy said something which is obviously wrong. I didn't only just refute his argument, I actually exposed him as a liar, who lied about his race and rank. Now, I don't see why exactly you expect me to have a serious discussion with someone after I found out that they were lying to me since the very beginning of our initial discussion. At that point I don't see why I should discuss anything with this person. He was obviously trolling, or else he wouldn't blatantly lie about stuff like this. This by the way, is the second time in this thread where I have exposed someone who lied about their race and rank, I don't fall for these shennanigans so people either stop trolling or I will keep exposing them, but don't expect a serious discussion about the game when people in this thread aren't even mature enough to not lie about their race and rank. edit: I mean, I knew for a fact that this guy is not a master league terran simply because of how wrong his post was. Turns out he isn't in masters and he doesn't even play terran. Now, you tell me, if I'm really that biased then how come that I can logically expose liars, simply by reading their posts about the game? You'd think that this is impossible for someone who, according to you, only think in black and white. You really haven't exposed anyone. Did you read naama's post? Or are you talking about the guy that linked his GM account which you misread and thought it was diamond? Just wondering... How about you just read. I have nothing to do with the naama discussion. READ For all the people who are a bit slow: I AM NOT YOSHO, I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR DISCUSSION, I ONLY ARGUED WITH 1 GUY IN PARTICULAR AND NOBODY ELSE. GOT IT? One of the people you "exposed" naama said he knows. That is why his post is relevant. No, for god's sake. Just read the conversation. I exposed LightSpectre or whatever his name was. I had absolutely nothing to do with the naama discussion. I only ever wondered why he was linking a diamond league account. I never claimed to have exposed anyone there, in fact I didn't even post a single link. However, I exposed LightSpectre as a liar and troll, which is what I am talking about. Well good for you then.
Well yes it is. The only sad part is that it took you guys 2 full pages to realize that I had nothing to do with the naama situation and that I was talking to someone else. I mean you could have of course just read the goddamn posts instead, but I guess it's easier to first accuse people of bias and hostility before actually checking the facts. Good job, to all of you.
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Hey, if you're looking to rejuvenate your TvP lategame play I can't speak with much authority, but I developed a nice early game push that usually puts you on 2 bases versus 1, which seems to be the proper way to play Terran right now anyway. At least below pro level. I figure people in this thread might be looking for something like this.
It's an early Ghost build designed to capitalize on the fact that nonaggressive early game Protoss relies on forcefields to survive, and aggressive Protoss can't ramp run vs an EMP. It works in Master league so it's OK. The base advantage seems more reliable than hoping your early expo doesn't go up against an even earlier Protoss expo. It's also fun. And it doesn't tech into anything you weren't going to tech into later, like a 1-1-1 does.
Lava's Ghost Expo
It's an amazingly reliable expansion denier, and a nonreliable but fairly viable game ender (with a ramp bust).
It also lets you up the pressure with another Ghost if you catch him being greedy. You can pretty much do whatever you want, and then land your orbital and outmacro him even if he went for an earlier expo. Try it out, it's how you should probably play until TvP lategame gets either better or easier.
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On March 25 2012 11:24 ChaosTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 11:18 ZenithM wrote:On March 25 2012 11:13 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 25 2012 11:08 convention wrote:On March 25 2012 10:59 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 25 2012 10:58 convention wrote:On March 25 2012 10:48 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 25 2012 10:32 ZenithM wrote:On March 25 2012 10:19 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 25 2012 10:14 LightSpectra wrote:
[quote]
So again, high-level Protoss play requires micro, as you just said. Thus refuting, once more, the notion that PvT just requires a deathball a-move.
[quote]
Don't listen to me. Really. There's GM and pros calling you out on your shit right now, so I'm wasting both of our time. I don't care about the highest level of play and that's not even the point, the point is that every gold league shmock can control a protoss army well enough to beat a way better player. And again, nobody is calling me out on anything, the only person replying to me is YOU. I hate to have to speak with you, but you're the one who's pretty much flaming non stop in this thread since the beginning. You refuse to discuss with Protoss players for one, and plus you prevent more reasonable and more skilled Terrans than you to contribute. I don't read much of what you're saying because it will most likely be "Protoss A-move noob hahahahaha" and honestly, we both know that nobody will make you change your stance. What's your purpose here? You want Protosses to publicly admit that they're no skilled brainless scrubs? Or you want Blizzard to hear your (quite loud) complains and make changes that will fit the great ChaosTerran? You can think that Protoss is OP without flaming them like they're not even human beings. Just present your arguments without sounding like a douchebag and accept obvious facts like "Protoss does have to micro sometimes". I too think that Protoss is very favored in lower level (I think that it evens up in high masters though, while you seem to think that TvP is fine only at the very highest GSL-like levels, which "you don't care about"). Just to say that I somewhat share your opinions. I just don't share your ways to go about it. Well, I have logically refuted his argument. Now you coming out with some random ad hominem attacks doesn't really change that, does it? The guy said something which is obviously wrong. I didn't only just refute his argument, I actually exposed him as a liar, who lied about his race and rank. Now, I don't see why exactly you expect me to have a serious discussion with someone after I found out that they were lying to me since the very beginning of our initial discussion. At that point I don't see why I should discuss anything with this person. He was obviously trolling, or else he wouldn't blatantly lie about stuff like this. This by the way, is the second time in this thread where I have exposed someone who lied about their race and rank, I don't fall for these shennanigans so people either stop trolling or I will keep exposing them, but don't expect a serious discussion about the game when people in this thread aren't even mature enough to not lie about their race and rank. edit: I mean, I knew for a fact that this guy is not a master league terran simply because of how wrong his post was. Turns out he isn't in masters and he doesn't even play terran. Now, you tell me, if I'm really that biased then how come that I can logically expose liars, simply by reading their posts about the game? You'd think that this is impossible for someone who, according to you, only think in black and white. You really haven't exposed anyone. Did you read naama's post? Or are you talking about the guy that linked his GM account which you misread and thought it was diamond? Just wondering... How about you just read. I have nothing to do with the naama discussion. READ For all the people who are a bit slow: I AM NOT YOSHO, I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR DISCUSSION, I ONLY ARGUED WITH 1 GUY IN PARTICULAR AND NOBODY ELSE. GOT IT? One of the people you "exposed" naama said he knows. That is why his post is relevant. No, for god's sake. Just read the conversation. I exposed LightSpectre or whatever his name was. I had absolutely nothing to do with the naama discussion. I only ever wondered why he was linking a diamond league account. I never claimed to have exposed anyone there, in fact I didn't even post a single link. However, I exposed LightSpectre as a liar and troll, which is what I am talking about. Well good for you then. Well yes it is. The only sad part is that it took you guys 2 full pages to realize that I had nothing to do with the naama situation and that I was talking to someone else. I mean you could have of course just read the goddamn posts instead, but I guess it's easier to first accuse people of bias and hostility before actually checking the facts. Good job, to all of you.
How about you just read. I have nothing to do with the "ChaosTerran witch-hunting legit high-leaguers" discussion. READ
For all the people who are a bit slow: I AM NOT CONVENTION, I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR DISCUSSION, I ONLY ARGUED WITH 1 GUY IN PARTICULAR AND NOBODY ELSE. GOT IT?
See what I did there?
I never accused you of...mhh...false accusations I guess :D. I too said that Lightspectra was a troll when you relevantly pointed out his profile description on TL, and I saw that you had nothing to do with the other legit players. My point was that you just sound way too vehement (like...capslocking your whole message and searching for personal infos to prove that some random master guy is a "liar"), since the beginning of the thread.
What's more, I find it odd that you ask for ranks to validate someone else's argument (which I find pretty ok in itself) BUT you say you don't care about the highest level of play. What's the line then. Only guys between 700 and 1100 points in master, preferably Terrans, can speak on this thread? Well obviously this is not going anywhere.
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On March 25 2012 10:46 Alexstrasas wrote:I cant undestand why people are pulling their e-peen to justify their arguments, like if basic logic is closely correlated to how well u play the game. Also if u really want to go that way, there are plenty of high level players like BeastyQt, Cloud, QXC, etc. that share similar concerns with the ones posted by various terrans in this thread. Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 08:31 naama- wrote:On March 25 2012 06:33 mazqo wrote:
All your QQ'ing about protoss being easier and overpowered and amoves over terran is just your unknowledge about how your race works and how protoss works. You make wrong unit composition, you dont know few things how you should fight, you dont abuse orbitals etc so you always make the same mistakes even when you dont know that you are making them. When you realize these things, matchup will become much more easier and you dont need to have 200 eAPM in fights and kite the hell out of your units and one misclick wont lose you the game.
For example, lets take 20 warp gates. You won a fight, but you have 20 units left and no medivacs nor vikigns remaining. Should you push? No because he will warp 20 units and kill your units. What you should do is remax 200/200 again, maybe try to deny his bases because if he warped 20 units to his natural, he cant warp 20 units to his base that he is trying to build. So when is good time to try to finish the game? When you win a fight with many units left. You have medics healing all your units to full hp. You have vikings left to kill colos. You have marines and marauders to kite zealots etc. (in 200/200 you dont need ot kite zealots, because they will die fast to 3-3 marines and ghosts, but in smaller fights you do.).
How will you win a fight with like that? Play defensive when toss has his 3bases saturated and +8 gateways and few colos, unless you get advantige before that. Max with 10 ghosts, 14 vikings, 1:4 marauder:marines. Leave marauders in front and marines back. Its huge that few marauders tanks colo hits rather than 5 marines that gets instakilled. Then just press stim when your opponent suicides his units to your defensive posture, scan his army and emp/snipe HT's.
So. What if toss doesnt attack? When you are near maxed. Start building macro orbitals since you will start floating minerals when you are making vikings and ghosts and 3-3 upgrades. Kill ~25scv's so you have around 40-45 scv's vs protoss's 75. Which means you have 30 supply bigger army. Now start moving out and take 4th and 5th etc and fight if toss doesnt camp with cannons at some location. If he does, you can try to move around him and get him in bad position, but dont attack to protoss army when he is spreaded out and sitting over cannons.
What should you do in fight? You can move around with vikings on move command to follow your army. so you can move with 2 control groups, ghosts and bio+medic. You only have to do 4 things to win a fight.
1. Scan his army to see where his ghosts are at etc..
2. Press stim
3. CTRL click your marines and move them behind marauders and press stop, now they are safe from splash.
4. Spam EMP with priority: 1. HT's 2. Rest - its also good to try to emp colos so they die to less hits from vikings.
Only time you would want to kite is when there are ht's and your ghosts are stuck behind your army and you cant emp them because your army is blocking your own ghosts.
You should never lose a fight when:
- Opponent doesnt get any storms. (because of emp or he has no HT's)
- You get cloaked ghosts next to your opponents army because he has no observer (Observer snipe is bonus, and if you think you are good enough to snipe his observer, then do this) - If you scan him and see he has no observer. You should win the game easily. Good post, really helpful While this might be "helpful" as general tips it adds nothing to the thread and infact in this context just sounds silly, it pretty much says: "You guys are saying that protoss is just a-move? Rubbish! You just need to understand protoss and do X and Y and Z and play flawlesly". If i really wanted to nitpick the issue, i would say that advice regarding the 20 warp gates, makes sense, IF you are atacking, but last time i checked you can warp in directly by the enemy base, wich protip, was an issue discussed negatively in this thread, and the rest is pretty much "HEY GUYS YOU DONT NEED 200APM YOU JUST NEED SICK CONTROL", i mean seriously writing " scan his HT, EMP all of them, snipe his observer" is easy, doing it, is something that is even an issue for a pro, and he for some reason forgets to mention that meanwhile the protoss just has to a-move and cast storms WICH IS PRETTY MUCH THE MAIN ISSUE DISCUSSED HERE also + Show Spoiler +nobody here asked for tips
Usually when you rape your opponent hard, warping 20 zealots wont do anything when bio kites them. No one asked tips, sure. So people just like to cry about imbalance when they dont want to learn to counter these "imbas". Like QXC said in his interview with SK-gaming, if you dont know how to counter something, its "imbalanced" but suddendly when you learn to counter it, its not imba.
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On March 25 2012 12:02 mazqo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 10:46 Alexstrasas wrote:I cant undestand why people are pulling their e-peen to justify their arguments, like if basic logic is closely correlated to how well u play the game. Also if u really want to go that way, there are plenty of high level players like BeastyQt, Cloud, QXC, etc. that share similar concerns with the ones posted by various terrans in this thread. On March 25 2012 08:31 naama- wrote:On March 25 2012 06:33 mazqo wrote:
All your QQ'ing about protoss being easier and overpowered and amoves over terran is just your unknowledge about how your race works and how protoss works. You make wrong unit composition, you dont know few things how you should fight, you dont abuse orbitals etc so you always make the same mistakes even when you dont know that you are making them. When you realize these things, matchup will become much more easier and you dont need to have 200 eAPM in fights and kite the hell out of your units and one misclick wont lose you the game.
For example, lets take 20 warp gates. You won a fight, but you have 20 units left and no medivacs nor vikigns remaining. Should you push? No because he will warp 20 units and kill your units. What you should do is remax 200/200 again, maybe try to deny his bases because if he warped 20 units to his natural, he cant warp 20 units to his base that he is trying to build. So when is good time to try to finish the game? When you win a fight with many units left. You have medics healing all your units to full hp. You have vikings left to kill colos. You have marines and marauders to kite zealots etc. (in 200/200 you dont need ot kite zealots, because they will die fast to 3-3 marines and ghosts, but in smaller fights you do.).
How will you win a fight with like that? Play defensive when toss has his 3bases saturated and +8 gateways and few colos, unless you get advantige before that. Max with 10 ghosts, 14 vikings, 1:4 marauder:marines. Leave marauders in front and marines back. Its huge that few marauders tanks colo hits rather than 5 marines that gets instakilled. Then just press stim when your opponent suicides his units to your defensive posture, scan his army and emp/snipe HT's.
So. What if toss doesnt attack? When you are near maxed. Start building macro orbitals since you will start floating minerals when you are making vikings and ghosts and 3-3 upgrades. Kill ~25scv's so you have around 40-45 scv's vs protoss's 75. Which means you have 30 supply bigger army. Now start moving out and take 4th and 5th etc and fight if toss doesnt camp with cannons at some location. If he does, you can try to move around him and get him in bad position, but dont attack to protoss army when he is spreaded out and sitting over cannons.
What should you do in fight? You can move around with vikings on move command to follow your army. so you can move with 2 control groups, ghosts and bio+medic. You only have to do 4 things to win a fight.
1. Scan his army to see where his ghosts are at etc..
2. Press stim
3. CTRL click your marines and move them behind marauders and press stop, now they are safe from splash.
4. Spam EMP with priority: 1. HT's 2. Rest - its also good to try to emp colos so they die to less hits from vikings.
Only time you would want to kite is when there are ht's and your ghosts are stuck behind your army and you cant emp them because your army is blocking your own ghosts.
You should never lose a fight when:
- Opponent doesnt get any storms. (because of emp or he has no HT's)
- You get cloaked ghosts next to your opponents army because he has no observer (Observer snipe is bonus, and if you think you are good enough to snipe his observer, then do this) - If you scan him and see he has no observer. You should win the game easily. Good post, really helpful While this might be "helpful" as general tips it adds nothing to the thread and infact in this context just sounds silly, it pretty much says: "You guys are saying that protoss is just a-move? Rubbish! You just need to understand protoss and do X and Y and Z and play flawlesly". If i really wanted to nitpick the issue, i would say that advice regarding the 20 warp gates, makes sense, IF you are atacking, but last time i checked you can warp in directly by the enemy base, wich protip, was an issue discussed negatively in this thread, and the rest is pretty much "HEY GUYS YOU DONT NEED 200APM YOU JUST NEED SICK CONTROL", i mean seriously writing " scan his HT, EMP all of them, snipe his observer" is easy, doing it, is something that is even an issue for a pro, and he for some reason forgets to mention that meanwhile the protoss just has to a-move and cast storms WICH IS PRETTY MUCH THE MAIN ISSUE DISCUSSED HERE also + Show Spoiler +nobody here asked for tips Usually when you rape your opponent hard, warping 20 zealots wont do anything when bio kites them. No one asked tips, sure. So people just like to cry about imbalance when they dont want to learn to counter these "imbas". Like QXC said in his interview with SK-gaming, if you dont know how to counter something, its "imbalanced" but suddendly when you learn to counter it, its not imba.
I really appreciated your advice, I just won a game against a Toss by implementing it One of the main thing I realized, is that if a fight occur when I am unprepared I die really hard (I get stormed before I have time to emp), whereas if I prepare for the fight I can win it. Do you have any tips on how to track the toss army movement (so that I can prepare for a fight)? Scans are nice but I also want to use mule...
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On March 25 2012 12:10 gondolin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 12:02 mazqo wrote:On March 25 2012 10:46 Alexstrasas wrote:I cant undestand why people are pulling their e-peen to justify their arguments, like if basic logic is closely correlated to how well u play the game. Also if u really want to go that way, there are plenty of high level players like BeastyQt, Cloud, QXC, etc. that share similar concerns with the ones posted by various terrans in this thread. On March 25 2012 08:31 naama- wrote:On March 25 2012 06:33 mazqo wrote:
All your QQ'ing about protoss being easier and overpowered and amoves over terran is just your unknowledge about how your race works and how protoss works. You make wrong unit composition, you dont know few things how you should fight, you dont abuse orbitals etc so you always make the same mistakes even when you dont know that you are making them. When you realize these things, matchup will become much more easier and you dont need to have 200 eAPM in fights and kite the hell out of your units and one misclick wont lose you the game.
For example, lets take 20 warp gates. You won a fight, but you have 20 units left and no medivacs nor vikigns remaining. Should you push? No because he will warp 20 units and kill your units. What you should do is remax 200/200 again, maybe try to deny his bases because if he warped 20 units to his natural, he cant warp 20 units to his base that he is trying to build. So when is good time to try to finish the game? When you win a fight with many units left. You have medics healing all your units to full hp. You have vikings left to kill colos. You have marines and marauders to kite zealots etc. (in 200/200 you dont need ot kite zealots, because they will die fast to 3-3 marines and ghosts, but in smaller fights you do.).
How will you win a fight with like that? Play defensive when toss has his 3bases saturated and +8 gateways and few colos, unless you get advantige before that. Max with 10 ghosts, 14 vikings, 1:4 marauder:marines. Leave marauders in front and marines back. Its huge that few marauders tanks colo hits rather than 5 marines that gets instakilled. Then just press stim when your opponent suicides his units to your defensive posture, scan his army and emp/snipe HT's.
So. What if toss doesnt attack? When you are near maxed. Start building macro orbitals since you will start floating minerals when you are making vikings and ghosts and 3-3 upgrades. Kill ~25scv's so you have around 40-45 scv's vs protoss's 75. Which means you have 30 supply bigger army. Now start moving out and take 4th and 5th etc and fight if toss doesnt camp with cannons at some location. If he does, you can try to move around him and get him in bad position, but dont attack to protoss army when he is spreaded out and sitting over cannons.
What should you do in fight? You can move around with vikings on move command to follow your army. so you can move with 2 control groups, ghosts and bio+medic. You only have to do 4 things to win a fight.
1. Scan his army to see where his ghosts are at etc..
2. Press stim
3. CTRL click your marines and move them behind marauders and press stop, now they are safe from splash.
4. Spam EMP with priority: 1. HT's 2. Rest - its also good to try to emp colos so they die to less hits from vikings.
Only time you would want to kite is when there are ht's and your ghosts are stuck behind your army and you cant emp them because your army is blocking your own ghosts.
You should never lose a fight when:
- Opponent doesnt get any storms. (because of emp or he has no HT's)
- You get cloaked ghosts next to your opponents army because he has no observer (Observer snipe is bonus, and if you think you are good enough to snipe his observer, then do this) - If you scan him and see he has no observer. You should win the game easily. Good post, really helpful While this might be "helpful" as general tips it adds nothing to the thread and infact in this context just sounds silly, it pretty much says: "You guys are saying that protoss is just a-move? Rubbish! You just need to understand protoss and do X and Y and Z and play flawlesly". If i really wanted to nitpick the issue, i would say that advice regarding the 20 warp gates, makes sense, IF you are atacking, but last time i checked you can warp in directly by the enemy base, wich protip, was an issue discussed negatively in this thread, and the rest is pretty much "HEY GUYS YOU DONT NEED 200APM YOU JUST NEED SICK CONTROL", i mean seriously writing " scan his HT, EMP all of them, snipe his observer" is easy, doing it, is something that is even an issue for a pro, and he for some reason forgets to mention that meanwhile the protoss just has to a-move and cast storms WICH IS PRETTY MUCH THE MAIN ISSUE DISCUSSED HERE also + Show Spoiler +nobody here asked for tips Usually when you rape your opponent hard, warping 20 zealots wont do anything when bio kites them. No one asked tips, sure. So people just like to cry about imbalance when they dont want to learn to counter these "imbas". Like QXC said in his interview with SK-gaming, if you dont know how to counter something, its "imbalanced" but suddendly when you learn to counter it, its not imba. I really appreciated your advice, I just won a game against a Toss by implementing it One of the main thing I realized, is that if a fight occur when I am unprepared I die really hard (I get stormed before I have time to emp), whereas if I prepare for the fight I can win it. Do you have any tips on how to track the toss army movement (so that I can prepare for a fight)? Scans are nice but I also want to use mule...
Using your factory, floating it in the middle of the map is one of the way to track the toss army movements.
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EPT
