On March 01 2012 18:35 Murlox wrote: A great thing I regret not seeing much is to use the nydus canal as an escape mechanism after a doom drop.
1. Overlord drop their base 2. Plant a nydus in a corner of their base (opposite side from ramp) 3. When he comes back to defend, move every unit into the nydus instead of losing them 4. Profit..
or you load your units back into Overlords that wait in the same position and load up much faster, as you have already everything you need for it (drops, speed, the overlords in position) and don't need an extra investment of 200/300.
And lose half your army and overlords in the process. We all know how this goes.
Drop, move overlords back, plant a nydus, rape his base, and retreat with nydus when he comes back. Clean and simple.
what? why would you be able to retreat per nydus when you are not able to retreat per OLs? OLs pick up immidiatly, Nydus pick up a unit with only double the speed they unload (which means they pick up 4units per sec) You have to be really slow for your OLs to be worse than Nydus.
In every scenario in which you lose some OLs and army in retreat, you will lose more if he focuses the nydus and afterwards cleans up. (Well, every scenario apart from him having a massive airforce that can hunt down your OLs)
On March 01 2012 13:47 Torte de Lini wrote: Can't be canceled. Expensive to build. Expensive to make a Nydus. Obvious and limited use. units come out one at a time when you unload
if it doesn't require gas it isnt that expensive right?
On March 01 2012 13:47 Torte de Lini wrote: Can't be canceled. Expensive to build. Expensive to make a Nydus. Obvious and limited use. units come out one at a time when you unload
if it doesn't require gas it isnt that expensive right?
Well, if Blizz removed the gas price it would obviously be cheaper - but depending on the situation (e.g. 2base roach/ling nydus) it can still be alot of money to throw into the nydus, where you could easilly "just" get overlord speed and drops. Torte de Lini is right about the primary issue being unloading in time. Unless you nydus outside his base a protoss will be able to blink/warp units so fast, they will often kill units popping out - and the same with terran since you would most likely come up close to his production.
At the moment I just see drops as a far stronger option. The only real reason to go nydus is if you wanna force an awkward base trade. You can demolish your opponents base while he's marching across the map. If he comes back you can fight/go hide in nydus... If he reaches your base - you can go back and defend while having destroyed alot of his structures.
We actually do see nydus worms in pro games vs protoss mostly. It doesn't make sense vs terran or zerg unless its cheesy or its muta/ling vs hydra/roach/infestor. It's used specifically for the hydra/ling all-in though.
Nydus worm as an invasion in to your opponent's base is a strategy that requires your opponent to make a mistake, since the worm can be killed with workers alone. As a reinforcing strat you see it against fast expanding toss for hydras, but 100 gas for a structure that gets killed by workers before a single unit gets out, it's just not worth it as a base invasion method.
On March 01 2012 19:58 acrimoneyius wrote: We actually do see nydus worms in pro games vs protoss mostly. It doesn't make sense vs terran or zerg unless its cheesy or its muta/ling vs hydra/roach/infestor. It's used specifically for the hydra/ling all-in though.
Oh and by the way, did we fucking mention that a "sneak trick", YELLS WHEN IT POPS. I sure want medivacs to SCREAAAM when they drop, seriously, how dumb is that? Am i the only one seing it or?
On March 01 2012 19:58 acrimoneyius wrote: We actually do see nydus worms in pro games vs protoss mostly. It doesn't make sense vs terran or zerg unless its cheesy or its muta/ling vs hydra/roach/infestor. It's used specifically for the hydra/ling all-in though.
Recent example of this?
It's been done alot in Korea (not sure if i've seen it as much in foreign tourneys) LosirA and Zenio do it from time to time. LosirA did it against MC at MLG Colombus (I know that's a while ago) but I've seen it in GSL / GSTL matches recently but don't remember specific games.
On March 01 2012 19:58 acrimoneyius wrote: We actually do see nydus worms in pro games vs protoss mostly. It doesn't make sense vs terran or zerg unless its cheesy or its muta/ling vs hydra/roach/infestor. It's used specifically for the hydra/ling all-in though.
Recent example of this?
It's been done alot in Korea (not sure if i've seen it as much in foreign tourneys) LosirA and Zenio do it from time to time. LosirA did it against MC at MLG Colombus (I know that's a while ago) but I've seen it in GSL / GSTL matches recently but don't remember specific games.
Leenock vs Seed on Crossfire and it failed horribly. Seed just scouted the Nydus in the main and then watched for the Nydus attempt at his front and killed it.
I think if they redesigned them to be a little bit tougher and build a little bit faster, they'd be used more. At the highest levels, it's hard to get a Nydus worm by someone into their main, but even trying to use them as a forward operating position can be tough since someone who is constantly scouting could kill them before they build.
people see failed nydus rush and then think "OMG ITS SHIT! BLIXZ PLX BUFF!". but wtf it's such a risky strategy... it's like a nuke rush.
i think nydus and nukes are both similar and insanely powerful late game abilities which are insanely underused when you start banking big resources in the 'end game' situation...
they are comparable... both cost 100/100 no supply, potential to cause insane damage, both issue a warning to other player and cause that 'nuke/nydus hunt' moment, both can be used simultaneously given additional ghost academy/networks.
if a mech terran is turtling hardcore in the middle of shakuras, what is stopping you using changlings, burrowed roach/infestor or overlord to grant vision in 2-3 locations and using a nydus in all places simultaneously?
the only thing that must be considered is that if nydus worm is sniped then zerg will probably a chunk of his army for almost nothing - so you have to consider retreating through the worm earlier or open additional worms to give alternative escape paths.
i scream nydus every time i see a zerg go against a meching terran with like 20 siege tanks and 4 planetary fortresses on metropolis... the zerg usually takes the map and just continually makes broodlord or ultra and a-moves into the terran siege line like a retard shouting "ZOMG LOOK BLIZX TERRAN IMBA I CANT WIN WITH AMOVE EVEN THOUGH I HAVE 2 MORE BASES!".
On March 01 2012 13:33 Tristran wrote: I believe the main Nydus building is 100/100 and the cost to spawn an additional Worm is a further 100/100. The minerals are nothing but 100 gas can be a bit painful to spend for a 'maybe' situation like the defensive reasons. Yet 200 gas spent is better than a loss to a Forcefield drop in your main, or a well positioned tank line.
The main building is 150/200 and a nydus worm is 100/100. That's at a time when you want to spend your gas on units and upgrades.
Now late game, you're usually aiming for a Broodlord/Infestor army, which doesn't benefit at all from Nydus.
I remember the IGN casters discussing this a bit a while back, comparing it to nuke. They said if they got rid of the silly sound, it would probably be utilized more. Or at least be something for the opponent to always be on the lookout for.
I have a feeling that eventually Zergs will use it defensively in the late game to bounce between faraway bases, like it was done occasionally in BW, except more expensive.
Frankly I think it would make WAY more sense (both in terms of in-universe credibility and in terms of balance) if it worked like a nuke. Same build time, the opponent would be able to spot it (or, better yet, their "systems" would "estimate" where the nydus will pop up, with a message or sound like "underground movement detected"), but it would only be killable after it come out of the ground.
On March 01 2012 19:58 acrimoneyius wrote: We actually do see nydus worms in pro games vs protoss mostly. It doesn't make sense vs terran or zerg unless its cheesy or its muta/ling vs hydra/roach/infestor. It's used specifically for the hydra/ling all-in though.
Recent example of this?
It's been done alot in Korea (not sure if i've seen it as much in foreign tourneys) LosirA and Zenio do it from time to time. LosirA did it against MC at MLG Colombus (I know that's a while ago) but I've seen it in GSL / GSTL matches recently but don't remember specific games.
Leenock vs Seed on Crossfire and it failed horribly. Seed just scouted the Nydus in the main and then watched for the Nydus attempt at his front and killed it.
EPT
