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Will you subscribe to the next MLG Arena? - Page 7

Forum Index > SC2 General
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KroN
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany438 Posts
February 27 2012 08:50 GMT
#121
If they fix their lag problems, clearly yes, otherwise clearly no! The content was very nice, but not in 480p, thats not acceptable in todays time for the price whiler others do it lag-free for no money.
zYwi3c
Profile Joined November 2010
Poland1811 Posts
February 27 2012 08:52 GMT
#122
20$ is a little too much. for 5/10$ i would totally do this
I'm getting the derection.
Big_Pete1999
Profile Joined July 2010
United States22 Posts
February 27 2012 15:26 GMT
#123
Ok ok ok, as a senior in a top 10 Business school in the USA with a 4.0 (I'm trying hard for Summa Cum Laud) in Accounting, let me say that "making a profit" is needed for GROWTH, but making a profit isn't necessarily needed in order to sustain, unless by sustaining, your product gets stale, which in turn generates less revenue, which ultimately leads to a "loss" and then going under.

The thing is that SC2 isn't exactly a television company still not offering a widescreen, high definition TV, or a computer company refusing to put a decent product together. SC2 has a format and casters. If there isn't a live venue/audience, then besides a latency annoyance, there really isn't much reason to fly everyone into the MLG office, but hey, that's their call.

In my previous posts, I've used NFL as a model. I've gotten a bit of flack from it because it is USA's #1 sports league/revenue generating league/etc... Well, the NFL didn't start that way. NFL was a nothing league paying their players next to nothing, and their owners routinely lost money and had to sell teams or go bankrupt.

Let me tell you though, by NOT charging money for people to watch their product on television (in our case, SC2 steaming online), they started building their fan base. Once a fan base shows constant growth for years, and once that fan base gets so large that they actually start making an impact on other sports/activities because they would rather watch SC2 (or the NFL/AFL back in the 50's-60's), sponsors notice! Once sponsors notice, you better believe they will start throwing money at that sport/e-sport. Once money starts flowing, then growth can occur and a continuously better product is out on display.

This is the model for success. Not only in the USA, but other countries as well. History shows that the "league" shouldn't charge fans to watch their product via television or in our case, online streaming. Money is only paid by the fans to attend the event live. This is the fastest way to build a fan base. Again, once that fan base is large enough, sponsors will kick in the money to improve and more easily distribute that product.

Here in America, television networks pay the league for the "rights" to televise the sport. But where does that network get the money to pay for the rights? They get it from SPONSORS through commercials or other big conglomerates that they are a sister company to. When they get enough money from these sources, they can pay for more and more rights to broadcast the games that they know their fans want to watch. The more games they broadcast, the more people will tune into their station to watch, and the more the sponsors will pay them in return because they know that more and more eyes are watching their commercials/ads. Rinse and repeat. Before you know it, the sports league that DIDN'T charge its fans to watch is a multi million/billion dollar per year league.

I understand why MLG did this PPV, however, they missed their target because of faulty financial advise. Sometimes people let the short term fix destroy a long term solution. I HOPE MLG didn't just do this, because while they might have made some money in the short term because of this PPV event, they might have shot themselves in the foot long term because people might be apprehensive to even click on a link for MLG because the seed has just been planted in their head that they will have to pay in order to watch. Even if that event that people are apprehensive to click on is a free stream, the mere fact that in their head they said "I hope I don't have to pay for this" is a NEGATIVE impact on the fan and fan base. Negative impacts on a fan base is not part of the "recipe for success". You want to shield the negative while pumping the fans full of the positive. This event was mostly negative because fans thought something negative at least once. Whether they paid for it or not, they initially said "what? I need to pay? Ok, that's fair"... but still, they said "what? I need to pay?" before they paid. That was a negative, and negativity is a recipe for failure, not success and growth.
CluEleSs_UK
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom583 Posts
February 28 2012 03:21 GMT
#124
If I have money when the time comes round, I probably will. I really hope they have actual FPVoDs of the players on the streams though, rather than the blizzard cam
"If it turns out he is leaving the ESL to focus on cooking crystal meth I'll agree that it is somewhat disgraceful, but I'll hold off judgement until then."
DeathSenders
Profile Joined December 2010
Brazil15 Posts
February 28 2012 03:24 GMT
#125
20bucks is too much money for a live stream IMO.

Non0
Profile Joined April 2010
United States100 Posts
February 28 2012 03:24 GMT
#126
Yes, the experience was amazing ♥♥ loved it.
Shinespark
Profile Joined June 2011
Chile843 Posts
February 28 2012 03:26 GMT
#127
No. I will watch a free stream if there is one, otherwise I simply won't watch.
"I, for one, welcome our new Korean overlords."
Tdelamay
Profile Joined October 2009
Canada548 Posts
February 28 2012 03:27 GMT
#128
If I have nothing else to do, maybe.
This road isn't leading anywhere...
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
February 28 2012 03:29 GMT
#129
Never gonna pay full price for a tournament that I can't watch due to time difference (not MLG's fault, obviously)

So the only way they will ever get my money is if they offer cheaper alternatives for people who can only watch a minority of games.
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
denzelz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States604 Posts
February 28 2012 03:41 GMT
#130
It was a very good weekend of SC2 watching and I felt it was $20 well spent. Still, the lack of a real audience made the event pretty lifeless. I have several friends living in New York who would have paid a lot of money to be able to watch it live. I understand that renting a venue is probably not very cost-effective but maybe next time Arenas can be hosted in a less expensive city so that a live audience is possible. Even admitting only...say 100 fans, would have greatly improved the atmosphere.
wtchuwahmon
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia63 Posts
February 28 2012 03:45 GMT
#131
Yes, although a lower price would be hugely appreciated. Although $20 is still great value for the time that you can actually get out of it, it is not always possible to do so. I only watched maybe 4-5hours this weekend as i'm from australia so i fell asleep through alot of it and had to miss the finals as i had to go to work. I think IPL's model of only $5 makes it alot more accesable for alot more people, also FXO invitational was an optional $5 and that put you into the draw to win some prized every weekend, that was great, i payed that and did not regret it the slightest, i will even continue my suscription to show my support for there great work.
GumThief
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada284 Posts
February 28 2012 03:52 GMT
#132
Through the poll it looks like the majority of people who paid for this arena would be a return buyer. If MLG was happy with their numbers, see the price not to change. :o
:))
denzelz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States604 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-28 03:55:32
February 28 2012 03:52 GMT
#133
On February 28 2012 00:26 Big_Pete1999 wrote:
Ok ok ok, as a senior in a top 10 Business school in the USA with a 4.0 (I'm trying hard for Summa Cum Laud) in Accounting, let me say that "making a profit" is needed for GROWTH, but making a profit isn't necessarily needed in order to sustain, unless by sustaining, your product gets stale, which in turn generates less revenue, which ultimately leads to a "loss" and then going under.

The thing is that SC2 isn't exactly a television company still not offering a widescreen, high definition TV, or a computer company refusing to put a decent product together. SC2 has a format and casters. If there isn't a live venue/audience, then besides a latency annoyance, there really isn't much reason to fly everyone into the MLG office, but hey, that's their call.

In my previous posts, I've used NFL as a model. I've gotten a bit of flack from it because it is USA's #1 sports league/revenue generating league/etc... Well, the NFL didn't start that way. NFL was a nothing league paying their players next to nothing, and their owners routinely lost money and had to sell teams or go bankrupt.

Let me tell you though, by NOT charging money for people to watch their product on television (in our case, SC2 steaming online), they started building their fan base. Once a fan base shows constant growth for years, and once that fan base gets so large that they actually start making an impact on other sports/activities because they would rather watch SC2 (or the NFL/AFL back in the 50's-60's), sponsors notice! Once sponsors notice, you better believe they will start throwing money at that sport/e-sport. Once money starts flowing, then growth can occur and a continuously better product is out on display.

This is the model for success. Not only in the USA, but other countries as well. History shows that the "league" shouldn't charge fans to watch their product via television or in our case, online streaming. Money is only paid by the fans to attend the event live. This is the fastest way to build a fan base. Again, once that fan base is large enough, sponsors will kick in the money to improve and more easily distribute that product.

Here in America, television networks pay the league for the "rights" to televise the sport. But where does that network get the money to pay for the rights? They get it from SPONSORS through commercials or other big conglomerates that they are a sister company to. When they get enough money from these sources, they can pay for more and more rights to broadcast the games that they know their fans want to watch. The more games they broadcast, the more people will tune into their station to watch, and the more the sponsors will pay them in return because they know that more and more eyes are watching their commercials/ads. Rinse and repeat. Before you know it, the sports league that DIDN'T charge its fans to watch is a multi million/billion dollar per year league.

I understand why MLG did this PPV, however, they missed their target because of faulty financial advise. Sometimes people let the short term fix destroy a long term solution. I HOPE MLG didn't just do this, because while they might have made some money in the short term because of this PPV event, they might have shot themselves in the foot long term because people might be apprehensive to even click on a link for MLG because the seed has just been planted in their head that they will have to pay in order to watch. Even if that event that people are apprehensive to click on is a free stream, the mere fact that in their head they said "I hope I don't have to pay for this" is a NEGATIVE impact on the fan and fan base. Negative impacts on a fan base is not part of the "recipe for success". You want to shield the negative while pumping the fans full of the positive. This event was mostly negative because fans thought something negative at least once. Whether they paid for it or not, they initially said "what? I need to pay? Ok, that's fair"... but still, they said "what? I need to pay?" before they paid. That was a negative, and negativity is a recipe for failure, not success and growth.


First off, I don't see how your school ranking and your GPA matters in this discussion at all. Fact is, Arenas is likely going to be a one-time experiment to determine if a pay-wall model will work for SC2. It's very very difficult to compare something like SC2 to something like the NFL. For starters, the barrier to entry for a company who wants to broadcast SC2 is very low compared to someone trying to start a new professional league for football. As such, there's PLENTY of other organizations that offer free streams. This weekend, you saw the success of Assembly, and on an almost daily basis, the success of GOMTV, which also offers free content. I would contend that these sources are sufficient for promoting Starcraft. I know that I personally spend a good amount of time watching SC2 and I can't even exhaust all of the VODs by GOM, MLG, Assembly, NASL, and YouTube casters.

MLG tried to determine the valuation of esports with Arenas this weekend (or in Econ terms for you: WTB). I would say that the event had either a net positive or a neutral effect on the growth of Starcraft. Those who couldn't pay could still enjoy the other sources that are available EVERY SINGLE DAY. I really don't think anyone is going to associate MLG with a paywall from just this event.

Also, as an aside, please stop comparing SC2 to any other sporting broadcast/event. They depend on two very different fundamental business models and only appear similar on the surface.
vZNuKE
Profile Joined August 2011
United States77 Posts
February 28 2012 03:54 GMT
#134
had no issue at all the entire weekend... 20$ is not alot considering the amount of work that was put into it.

People need to stop being cheap and support eSports.
compLexity fanboy!!! Go NaDa, SangHo, Heart, Minigun / Also love fnatic and vile! Especially ToD, aLive, Moon, SyNc, State, DdoRo, and Yong!! TREME and Avenge are my favorite Korean protosses too!
Ashes
Profile Joined January 2011
United States362 Posts
February 28 2012 03:58 GMT
#135
Well to be honest, with IPL4 showing how to attract potential paying viewers, I wont subscribe to MLG if they again go ahead and charge $20 for it ..sorry Its nothing about being cheap. I will wait for the vods to show up....
Kralic
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada2628 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-28 04:11:24
February 28 2012 04:07 GMT
#136
I'll see what the line up(player and caster) is and the format, not sure how two arena's will work out. The thing about MLG is their company is only in e-sports, just like the NASL. The other major tournaments ASUS, Dreamhak, and GSL are all pet projects with these tournaments, it does not matter if they make a profit, as long as they don't lose too much off of the tournament itself, they will make fistfuls of money off of people buying their other products that their parent companies sell.

One big thing, is if it is $20 or not. I don't mind dropping $20 every 3-4 months, but if it is $20 per Arena when spring has two then I will have to pick and choose. If they drop the price to $10 each Arena I will buy forever and ever.

The other big thing will be, who do they use to set up the PPV stream? Twitch.tv dropped the ball big time on this one. Maybe have a system set up like HBO online TV where you need to sign into a webpage to view the "stream player". If they fix this, I will most likely pay again with the factors above satisfactory to my liking.
Brood War forever!
DrNebula
Profile Joined November 2011
United States16 Posts
February 28 2012 04:22 GMT
#137
On February 28 2012 12:52 denzelz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2012 00:26 Big_Pete1999 wrote:
Ok ok ok, as a senior in a top 10 Business school in the USA with a 4.0 (I'm trying hard for Summa Cum Laud) in Accounting, let me say that "making a profit" is needed for GROWTH, but making a profit isn't necessarily needed in order to sustain, unless by sustaining, your product gets stale, which in turn generates less revenue, which ultimately leads to a "loss" and then going under.

The thing is that SC2 isn't exactly a television company still not offering a widescreen, high definition TV, or a computer company refusing to put a decent product together. SC2 has a format and casters. If there isn't a live venue/audience, then besides a latency annoyance, there really isn't much reason to fly everyone into the MLG office, but hey, that's their call.

In my previous posts, I've used NFL as a model. I've gotten a bit of flack from it because it is USA's #1 sports league/revenue generating league/etc... Well, the NFL didn't start that way. NFL was a nothing league paying their players next to nothing, and their owners routinely lost money and had to sell teams or go bankrupt.

Let me tell you though, by NOT charging money for people to watch their product on television (in our case, SC2 steaming online), they started building their fan base. Once a fan base shows constant growth for years, and once that fan base gets so large that they actually start making an impact on other sports/activities because they would rather watch SC2 (or the NFL/AFL back in the 50's-60's), sponsors notice! Once sponsors notice, you better believe they will start throwing money at that sport/e-sport. Once money starts flowing, then growth can occur and a continuously better product is out on display.

This is the model for success. Not only in the USA, but other countries as well. History shows that the "league" shouldn't charge fans to watch their product via television or in our case, online streaming. Money is only paid by the fans to attend the event live. This is the fastest way to build a fan base. Again, once that fan base is large enough, sponsors will kick in the money to improve and more easily distribute that product.

Here in America, television networks pay the league for the "rights" to televise the sport. But where does that network get the money to pay for the rights? They get it from SPONSORS through commercials or other big conglomerates that they are a sister company to. When they get enough money from these sources, they can pay for more and more rights to broadcast the games that they know their fans want to watch. The more games they broadcast, the more people will tune into their station to watch, and the more the sponsors will pay them in return because they know that more and more eyes are watching their commercials/ads. Rinse and repeat. Before you know it, the sports league that DIDN'T charge its fans to watch is a multi million/billion dollar per year league.

I understand why MLG did this PPV, however, they missed their target because of faulty financial advise. Sometimes people let the short term fix destroy a long term solution. I HOPE MLG didn't just do this, because while they might have made some money in the short term because of this PPV event, they might have shot themselves in the foot long term because people might be apprehensive to even click on a link for MLG because the seed has just been planted in their head that they will have to pay in order to watch. Even if that event that people are apprehensive to click on is a free stream, the mere fact that in their head they said "I hope I don't have to pay for this" is a NEGATIVE impact on the fan and fan base. Negative impacts on a fan base is not part of the "recipe for success". You want to shield the negative while pumping the fans full of the positive. This event was mostly negative because fans thought something negative at least once. Whether they paid for it or not, they initially said "what? I need to pay? Ok, that's fair"... but still, they said "what? I need to pay?" before they paid. That was a negative, and negativity is a recipe for failure, not success and growth.


First off, I don't see how your school ranking and your GPA matters in this discussion at all. Fact is, Arenas is likely going to be a one-time experiment to determine if a pay-wall model will work for SC2. It's very very difficult to compare something like SC2 to something like the NFL. For starters, the barrier to entry for a company who wants to broadcast SC2 is very low compared to someone trying to start a new professional league for football. As such, there's PLENTY of other organizations that offer free streams. This weekend, you saw the success of Assembly, and on an almost daily basis, the success of GOMTV, which also offers free content. I would contend that these sources are sufficient for promoting Starcraft. I know that I personally spend a good amount of time watching SC2 and I can't even exhaust all of the VODs by GOM, MLG, Assembly, NASL, and YouTube casters.

MLG tried to determine the valuation of esports with Arenas this weekend (or in Econ terms for you: WTB). I would say that the event had either a net positive or a neutral effect on the growth of Starcraft. Those who couldn't pay could still enjoy the other sources that are available EVERY SINGLE DAY. I really don't think anyone is going to associate MLG with a paywall from just this event.

Also, as an aside, please stop comparing SC2 to any other sporting broadcast/event. They depend on two very different fundamental business models and only appear similar on the surface.


thank you for having the balls and knowledge to say what i could only think of
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
February 28 2012 04:28 GMT
#138
Unfortunately no. The PPV model does provide for many hours of content, but the problem is that this time is all crammed into one weekend, and if I were to purchase, I would be obligated to spend the entire weekend watching. That means very unproductive weekends.
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
Warpath
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada1242 Posts
February 28 2012 04:28 GMT
#139
I loved the stream but for $20 dollars..
I want to support MLG but thats a pretty big hit if this is the trend for every tourny. If this was a once-per-year unique event i wouldnt have a problem. But as been said, this is likely the future and I don't see myself dishing out $20 dollars for every event, regardless of reputation of the league or caliber/quantity of players.
Chargelot
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
2275 Posts
February 28 2012 04:30 GMT
#140
I wonder if anyone would say that it was as good as 1 month of GSL & GSTL, which you get for the same price. I certainly won't be purchasing it.
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