MLG Winter Arena has now passed with praise generally ranging from good to great. However, that doesn't mean it was worth the price of admission. So that's the question: based on the good and the bad, will you subscribe to the next MLG Arena?
Good: Code S caliber player lineup, very good presentation, excellent commentary both ingame and postgame, tons of content, nice stream setup
Bad: Stream lag and the crash during the finals, login pop up bug, free stream bug, still some downtime, poor ending ceremony
How good or bad each individual thing was is a personal opinion, so it'd be better to not have arguments over how your stream didn't lag or that you hated Rob/JP/Wheat/whoever's casting. But given everything overall, was it worth $20 dollars and would you spend that much next time?
Poll: Will you subscribe to the next MLG Arena for $20?
No, and I didn't subscribe this time and I didn't watch (601)
40%
Yes, and subscribed this time (306)
20%
No, and I didn't subscribe this time but I still watched (270)
18%
Undecided and I didn't subscribe (91)
6%
No, and subscribed this time (85)
6%
Undecided and I subscribed (56)
4%
Yes, and I didn't subscribe this time and I didn't watch (54)
4%
Yes, and I didn't subscribe this time but I still watched (47)
3%
1510 total votes
Your vote: Will you subscribe to the next MLG Arena for $20?
(Vote): Yes, and subscribed this time (Vote): Yes, and I didn't subscribe this time but I still watched (Vote): Yes, and I didn't subscribe this time and I didn't watch (Vote): No, and subscribed this time (Vote): No, and I didn't subscribe this time but I still watched (Vote): No, and I didn't subscribe this time and I didn't watch (Vote): Undecided and I subscribed (Vote): Undecided and I didn't subscribe
like you said great event overall but the no crowd and poor ending left me a bleh feeling about it. would be a doubt id buy for 10, but for 20idk so I voted undecided
most probably (definitely if they lower the prices a little ;D)
i am ashamed to say i watched for free using the ru.twitch.tv exploit thing for a bit, and LOVED what i saw - the production quality was absolutely fantastic. i want to make it up by getting the full experience next time :D
Unsure, still unconvinced. Yeah, it was awesome because the players are amazing. But MLG didn't add anything more besides a standard I already set and found in some other leagues and their production (+ they're free).
When you separate the good games and the players which don't really make the event different from all the others (though MLG paying for the expenses of the players to travel to this event does tip the scale in their favour) and look only at the production effects, then you can probably assess a price.
Loved the event, loved the players and the games. Didn't feel like there was anything "more" added that I could use anyways (given my bandwidth, I can't watch in HD and I can't watch multiple streams). So, I can't say if the 20$ was worth the event, I can say the features offered that I can't use in addition to removing the actual games to the overall production and performance of the event is not something I would pay for personally yet.
I'll be waiting for the caster information before deciding. It just didn't live up to my expectations. On the whole, I thought Assembly's casting was much better. Much of the casting added very little to the games, and some of it made the games annoying to watch. I used mute more than I usually do.
The production quality was very good, but I wouldn't say it was excellent. The cast of players was incredible, but it actually seemed like there was less player coverage than usual. I think there was just one and sometimes two interviews for many (not all) of the players, which is a lot less extra coverage than I expected, given it took place in MLG's office and they had extra streams all the time.
The streaming interface and JTV definitely had issues as well, although I'm not sure how strongly that factors into my decision.
I did not watch the event because i felt that 20 was a little to much for this. I regretnot doing it but i would subscribe to the next event but i seriously think that 10 dollars is a fair price and it could make more revenue for MLG itself because they would have a better turn out but next event i will definatly subscribe because it was a very good tournament from what i read... yes i read evverything that was posted
Seems highly unlikely. It depends almost entirely on the weekend for me. I'm quite busy, and unless it happened to line up with a weekend I would actually be able to sit around and watch most of it, I wouldn't pay to watch. With a free stream I can turn it on for a match here and a match there, but with a PPV model, that doesn't seem worth the cost to me.
I subscribed this time and most likely will subscribe again.
This is not to say it was satisfactory, though, as I have an extreme beef with the poor casting quality. I am simply sick of NA casters who don't actually play the game at a high level. When I compare tumbasc and rotterdam, the former makes me cringe at everything he says.
If we're moving into a model where e-sports charges for the event/season/whatever, MLG has definitely demonstrated that their product is worth paying for (and still needs improvement, always), however...it's not worth $20.
Didn't subscribed and won't unless there is a: 1. Some way to test to see if it is worth it (make a 1day deal or something) 2. Lower the price. When i need to pay quite a bit of money (compared to other things i can spend my time on) and i have no way to test it you cannot expect me simply gamble.
Undecided. A lot of things could happen between now and then. Still, a lot would have to be presented to get me to cough up $20 for something like this.
Depending on the player list. Not a fan of the main casters they used this time, but that's not a dealbreaker for me. Sounded like there were some good games this time around (didn't watch) so if it's a similar list I'd be pumped. The only thing I'd like to see is daily passes. The one reason I didn't watch and pay this time was because one day I was out of the house, and the championship day is Monday morning at work for me.
Payed the $20 and I was pretty impressed. Great production values and I loved the stream interface. Very cool how you could watch pretty much any game you wanted to with multiple streams. Even a news ticker at the bottom, really slick.
I kinda missed the crowd though... It made this event feel more like a homestory rather than an MLG but that has its own charm. Some stream issues in the finals was unfortunate too but not enough to spoil it for me.
Yes, assuming its gonna be 10 or less for the next arena or they do something that really justifies the 20. I enjoyed watching it and I loved seeing drg crush opponent after opponent but I'd be hesitant to pay 20 again.
Maybe if I can't get it free. Couple other things wrong though.
Casting I am becoming less and less impressed with the tastosis combo compared to more professional people arriving on the scene. I'm 19 and think they are too juvenile and bias, somethings wrong with that. Artosis analysis is still top notch and nicks like your cool uncle with the raspy voice, but seriously there are things they can improve upon.
Live Audiance. Players looked like they where in a funeral home to me. Live Audience get me hyped and them hyped.
Couple things right you missed. Format. I think it's the best format around and unique. Losing one set and you still get a second chance to prove your worth, abeit crippled. That's okay and fair. Great merit based pre qualification system.
Well worth the 20 dollars. I don't think anyone can question that. It was the 32 of the top 50 players in the world. Very good quality, great games, great content, and great casters. Cannot wait for the next one and big ups to Sundance for having the balls to do this and knowing that the community would rip him to shreds. It in the end it was the right thing to do imo, for the growth of esports.
On February 27 2012 12:41 Jibba wrote: I'll be waiting for the caster information before deciding. It just didn't live up to my expectations. On the whole, I thought Assembly's casting was much better. Much of the casting added very little to the games, and some of it made the games annoying to watch. I used mute more than I usually do.
The production quality was very good, but I wouldn't say it was excellent. The cast of players was incredible, but it actually seemed like there was less player coverage than usual. I think there was just one and sometimes two interviews for many (not all) of the players, which is a lot less extra coverage than I expected, given it took place in MLG's office and they had extra streams all the time.
The streaming interface and JTV definitely had issues as well, although I'm not sure how strongly that factors into my decision.
This has already been the biggest issue for me - amateur casting. I have complete respect and support for community casters learning the ropes and testing their wings in free streams. But MLG needs to have a standard when it is part of the 'product' they're selling.
I don't want to watch bronze league players, I don't want to listen to bronze league casters.
You know I could pick apart the casters one by one, but I'm not going to do that. They all have their weaknesses and strengths. You can never please everyone. If they ever want feedback or pointers. I'll just throw them a PM.
To answer the other question.
1) Barcraft. 2) No, the games were great and other than the nice layout I had a lot of other tech issues. 3) Too many alternatives.
But, hey if they can find success with it more power to them. I'm still reserved on calling it success until I find out their actual buyrate.
I subscribed this time but won`t next time because there will be even more arena events and I can`t keep paying 20 each time...way too costly and apparently you can watch it for free.
I wouldn't subscribe to the next Arena event. The people who paid for this event essentially got ripped off since the stream was available for free because of technical difficulties.
On February 27 2012 12:47 Angel_ wrote: Yes, if it's not $20.
If we're moving into a model where e-sports charges for the event/season/whatever, MLG has definitely demonstrated that their product is worth paying for (and still needs improvement, always), however...it's not worth $20.
This. From what I saw friday it was nice and I would pay but not 20$.
On February 27 2012 13:18 NovaTheFeared wrote: I wouldn't subscribe to the next Arena event. The people who paid for this event essentially got ripped off since the stream was available for free because of technical difficulties.
I don't feel ripped off when I buy a game or a movie when I could have pirated it, and I don't feel I got ripped off just because some people were able to watch the Arena for free.
On February 27 2012 13:14 StarStruck wrote: You know I could pick apart the casters one by one, but I'm not going to do that. They all have their weaknesses and strengths. You can never please everyone. If they ever want feedback or pointers. I'll just throw them a PM.
To answer the other question.
1) Barcraft. 2) No, the games were great and other than the nice layout I had a lot of other tech issues. 3) Too many alternatives.
But, hey if they can find success with it more power to them. I'm still reserved on calling it success until I find out their actual buyrate.
Based on this thread and the 'how did you watch thread' it seems about 40% of TLers who watched actually paid to do so. There was about 30k max watching MLG when you take the total people watching SC2 streams minus the amount watching other SC2 streams(there were 150 SC2 streams, but only 30 or so had more then 10 viewers). Right after the crash that seemed to reset the login screen for a lot of people who were watching for free, it seemed to settle at 20k.
You can make a lot of assumptions about how many casuals found the stream and it just happened to work and how the crash affected them, but I think it's more reasonable to just say they probably had between 8,000 and 12,000 subscriptions.
The Arena should take more of a Homestory cup setup b.c it is located in the MLG office. Half the casters were annoying simply because of there lack of knowledge about basic opening or extremely common all-ins. If they lower the price to $10 then 100% ill buy the next one- other wise no- not at all
No, I will not be subscribing to the next MLG Arena for $20, and yes, I did watch Winter 2012 through MLG's site for free. I personally find $20 to be too much. That's my personal opinion. I support the growth of e-sports but I find MLG's decision to implement this PPV system for that particular price isn't worth for me.
On February 27 2012 12:33 KadaverBB wrote: Definately, best 20 bucks i ever spent
You've apparently never bought GSL.
No I will never pay $20 for an Arena event. They need to at least equal Gom's price in games/dollar for me to even consider it. Since GSL has well over twice the games that would be like 5.00 maybe a little more.
On February 27 2012 12:47 Angel_ wrote: Yes, if it's not $20.
If we're moving into a model where e-sports charges for the event/season/whatever, MLG has definitely demonstrated that their product is worth paying for (and still needs improvement, always), however...it's not worth $20.
This. From what I saw friday it was nice and I would pay but not 20$.
well what would you be willing to pay?? a whole dollar? holy crap 20 bucks is not that much, next time call me and i'll pay for you.
On February 27 2012 12:47 Angel_ wrote: Yes, if it's not $20.
If we're moving into a model where e-sports charges for the event/season/whatever, MLG has definitely demonstrated that their product is worth paying for (and still needs improvement, always), however...it's not worth $20.
This. From what I saw friday it was nice and I would pay but not 20$.
well what would you be willing to pay?? a whole dollar? holy crap 20 bucks is not that much, next time call me and i'll pay for you.
#? Oops, double post. Well I might as well add some content to this so here goes: I paid for the weekend ($20) after watching the preview on friday. There were some technical fuck ups, but much less than I was expecting considering they don't host events on this scale at their home offices regularly. I honestly liked having adebisi and tumba, jp + wheat, and tastosis as casters. They provided 3 different levels of entertainment/analysis. People have complained about the casting but TBH this lineup was amazing. Is every event going to have Tastetosis, Bitterdam, and DayWHEAT? No, so quit bitching about it. And yes the casters did misread builds a couple of times. It's an experienced based part of casting (if you don't know exactly what they're doing you just observe - comment instead of predict-comment).
The quad view was amazing. Stream quality was excellent. The low budget backdrop/background design was apparent but did not take away from the tournament at all. Little creative lighting (not expected since this is... an office). The set design and lighting design are what I would honestly want to be improved the most when they move into their new studios. However since the next arena will be their debut in that space I will probably not worry about it (for the next arena). There were only a few problems with the sound design, which I mainly noticed as an echo on the Tumba - Adebisi cast occasionally.
On February 27 2012 12:47 Angel_ wrote: Yes, if it's not $20.
If we're moving into a model where e-sports charges for the event/season/whatever, MLG has definitely demonstrated that their product is worth paying for (and still needs improvement, always), however...it's not worth $20.
This. From what I saw friday it was nice and I would pay but not 20$.
well what would you be willing to pay?? a whole dollar? holy crap 20 bucks is not that much, next time call me and i'll pay for you.
Add up the total amount of games a GSL season will have. Divide $15 by that number and then multiply the new number by the number of games an Arena will have. That is how much I am willing to pay. That would be between 5-6$ I believe.
On February 27 2012 13:14 StarStruck wrote: You know I could pick apart the casters one by one, but I'm not going to do that. They all have their weaknesses and strengths. You can never please everyone. If they ever want feedback or pointers. I'll just throw them a PM.
To answer the other question.
1) Barcraft. 2) No, the games were great and other than the nice layout I had a lot of other tech issues. 3) Too many alternatives.
But, hey if they can find success with it more power to them. I'm still reserved on calling it success until I find out their actual buyrate.
Based on this thread and the 'how did you watch thread' it seems about 40% of TLers who watched actually paid to do so. There was about 30k max watching MLG when you take the total people watching SC2 streams minus the amount watching other SC2 streams(there were 150 SC2 streams, but only 30 or so had more then 10 viewers). Right after the crash that seemed to reset the login screen for a lot of people who were watching for free, it seemed to settle at 20k.
You can make a lot of assumptions about how many casuals found the stream and it just happened to work and how the crash affected them, but I think it's more reasonable to just say they probably had between 8,000 and 12,000 subscriptions.
I wouldn't consider these polls to be good samples as SD pointed out. It means shit. Lots of people found ways around it. Still I'll wait on the buyrate to come in because the unique viewers and cap are very, very unreliable in this scenario.
From MLG's standpoint if they were to make it $10, they would need to rake in twice the viewers as if it were $20. It's similar to how fast food places are so expensive nowadays because of their decrease in sales, perhaps. I didn't pay but still watched it.
On February 27 2012 12:47 Angel_ wrote: Yes, if it's not $20.
If we're moving into a model where e-sports charges for the event/season/whatever, MLG has definitely demonstrated that their product is worth paying for (and still needs improvement, always), however...it's not worth $20.
This. From what I saw friday it was nice and I would pay but not 20$.
well what would you be willing to pay?? a whole dollar? holy crap 20 bucks is not that much, next time call me and i'll pay for you.
Add up the total amount of games a GSL season will have. Divide that by $15 and then multiply it by the number of games an Arena will have. That is how much I am willing to pay. That would be between 5-6$ I believe.
i don't know what you're career is but i'm sure you would appreciate making a decent amount of money, Sundance is putting all the money he makes back into mlg so by paying 20 bucks your helping keep mlg around, if that's not worth not getting a good game per dollar ratio then that's fine by me, but i will still be paying 20 dollars.
On February 27 2012 12:47 Angel_ wrote: Yes, if it's not $20.
If we're moving into a model where e-sports charges for the event/season/whatever, MLG has definitely demonstrated that their product is worth paying for (and still needs improvement, always), however...it's not worth $20.
This. From what I saw friday it was nice and I would pay but not 20$.
well what would you be willing to pay?? a whole dollar? holy crap 20 bucks is not that much, next time call me and i'll pay for you.
Will do whats your number? I'm willing to pay 10$ for 3 days but not 20. Not everyone has a super awesome make 30 grand a year job or more (which isn't even that awesome).
Hell pay for my account and PM me the info, I wouldn't mind saving 20$ that can go to gas or something else if I need it. Thanks in advance!
On February 27 2012 12:47 Angel_ wrote: Yes, if it's not $20.
If we're moving into a model where e-sports charges for the event/season/whatever, MLG has definitely demonstrated that their product is worth paying for (and still needs improvement, always), however...it's not worth $20.
This. From what I saw friday it was nice and I would pay but not 20$.
well what would you be willing to pay?? a whole dollar? holy crap 20 bucks is not that much, next time call me and i'll pay for you.
Add up the total amount of games a GSL season will have. Divide that by $15 and then multiply it by the number of games an Arena will have. That is how much I am willing to pay. That would be between 5-6$ I believe.
i don't know what you're career is but i'm sure you would appreciate making a decent amount of money, Sundance is putting all the money he makes back into mlg so by paying 20 bucks your helping keep mlg around, if that's not worth not getting a good game per dollar ratio then that's fine by me, but i will still be paying 20 dollars.
Paying because you felt bad for him is terrible for E-Sports. No one pays for the HD Sports channels because they feel bad for the NFL. Same with UFC or literally anything else people pay for. A business cannot work like that and honestly the fact they went for that angle when advertising the pass and during the interview with him kind of makes me not want to buy the next pass event if they do try to compare to GSL's game/dollar ratio.
I was fine subscribing because my CSL team reimbursed me for it. I ended up paying less than $2 to watch and throw a viewing party. We just threw it up on a giant projector, bought a ton of pizzas, and watched. We were a little upset with the problems with the streams, but it is nearly impossible on a projector screen to tell the difference between 480p and 1080p. If I wasn't throwing a party I might be a little more reluctant at that pricepoint, but more than likely I would go for it.
On February 27 2012 12:47 Angel_ wrote: Yes, if it's not $20.
If we're moving into a model where e-sports charges for the event/season/whatever, MLG has definitely demonstrated that their product is worth paying for (and still needs improvement, always), however...it's not worth $20.
This. From what I saw friday it was nice and I would pay but not 20$.
well what would you be willing to pay?? a whole dollar? holy crap 20 bucks is not that much, next time call me and i'll pay for you.
Add up the total amount of games a GSL season will have. Divide that by $15 and then multiply it by the number of games an Arena will have. That is how much I am willing to pay. That would be between 5-6$ I believe.
i don't know what you're career is but i'm sure you would appreciate making a decent amount of money, Sundance is putting all the money he makes back into mlg so by paying 20 bucks your helping keep mlg around, if that's not worth not getting a good game per dollar ratio then that's fine by me, but i will still be paying 20 dollars.
Paying because you felt bad for him is terrible for E-Sports. No one pays for the HD Sports channels because they feel bad for the NFL. Same with UFC or literally anything else people pay for. A business cannot work like that and honestly the fact they went for that angle when advertising the pass and during the interview with him kind of makes me not want to buy the next pass event if they do try to compare to GSL's game/dollar ratio.
wait let me re-read my post to check if i ever said i felt bad for him or mlg, nope i didn't. how come 20 bucks is 1/4 of your life savings to everyone? it's seriously less than you would spend going to a sit down restaurant or to a movie with your girlfriend
On February 27 2012 12:47 Angel_ wrote: Yes, if it's not $20.
If we're moving into a model where e-sports charges for the event/season/whatever, MLG has definitely demonstrated that their product is worth paying for (and still needs improvement, always), however...it's not worth $20.
This. From what I saw friday it was nice and I would pay but not 20$.
well what would you be willing to pay?? a whole dollar? holy crap 20 bucks is not that much, next time call me and i'll pay for you.
On February 27 2012 12:47 Angel_ wrote: Yes, if it's not $20.
If we're moving into a model where e-sports charges for the event/season/whatever, MLG has definitely demonstrated that their product is worth paying for (and still needs improvement, always), however...it's not worth $20.
This. From what I saw friday it was nice and I would pay but not 20$.
well what would you be willing to pay?? a whole dollar? holy crap 20 bucks is not that much, next time call me and i'll pay for you.
Add up the total amount of games a GSL season will have. Divide that by $15 and then multiply it by the number of games an Arena will have. That is how much I am willing to pay. That would be between 5-6$ I believe.
i don't know what you're career is but i'm sure you would appreciate making a decent amount of money, Sundance is putting all the money he makes back into mlg so by paying 20 bucks your helping keep mlg around, if that's not worth not getting a good game per dollar ratio then that's fine by me, but i will still be paying 20 dollars.
Paying because you felt bad for him is terrible for E-Sports. No one pays for the HD Sports channels because they feel bad for the NFL. Same with UFC or literally anything else people pay for. A business cannot work like that and honestly the fact they went for that angle when advertising the pass and during the interview with him kind of makes me not want to buy the next pass event if they do try to compare to GSL's game/dollar ratio.
wait let me re-read my post to check if i ever said i felt bad for him or mlg, nope i didn't. how come 20 bucks is 1/4 of your life savings to everyone? it's seriously less than you would spend going to a sit down restaurant or to a movie with your girlfriend
I like how you don't understand why people don't wanna pay $20, and you berate people cause you think $20 is probably too much money for them. $20 isn't much at all. It's the product that you're buying with it, people don't think it's worth it. There are so many other tournaments out there and every one of them has a free stream option. What about MLG is special that it can charge $20, for less games than the GSL?
On February 27 2012 12:47 Angel_ wrote: Yes, if it's not $20.
If we're moving into a model where e-sports charges for the event/season/whatever, MLG has definitely demonstrated that their product is worth paying for (and still needs improvement, always), however...it's not worth $20.
This. From what I saw friday it was nice and I would pay but not 20$.
well what would you be willing to pay?? a whole dollar? holy crap 20 bucks is not that much, next time call me and i'll pay for you.
Add up the total amount of games a GSL season will have. Divide $15 by that number and then multiply the new number by the number of games an Arena will have. That is how much I am willing to pay. That would be between 5-6$ I believe.
are you going to stop paying for GSL when they raise their prices?
I subscribe/pay for GSL and consider it totally worth every penny. I didn't and won't pay for MLG because it is too laggy, too much downtime, too cheesy (like they just want to end things ASAP), etc.
While I support E-Sports (such as paying for GSL, buying other merchandise, I'm not sure I'll ever pay for MLG. Hell, even GSL lets you watch it for free if you catch it live. I know it costs money for MLG, but that's where sponsors and tickets to attend come into play. Just like other sports (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, Soccer, etc...), they are aired on tv for free, you have to buy a ticket to attend, and they make their money because of sponsors.
I know MLG's stance for a PPV event was to be taken more "seriously", but honestly, I think they took 2 steps back because of the obvious alienation of their fanbase. People who don't attend live events are use to watching for free, so if they want E-Sports to be taken as seriously as other sports, they need to follow their recipe for success (sponsors, paid admission, free stream). It makes more sense to have people pay for VODs than it does to pay to stream it live.
I'll continue to subscribe to GSL because I can't watch it live, therefor, relying on VODs, just like I'll continue to pay for my NFL season tickets, but I don't think I'll ever pay for MLG to watch it stream live. That recipe just doesn't make any sense.
What I liked most about this tournament, is that it never felt as if I was watching just another game. Too often tournaments turn into a point where is a popular player vs a mediocre player, with a rare upset. And by the end of the tourny when its actually the best players, its over so quickly. From the 1st match friday until the end of sunday it was non-stop fantastic matches. I was on the fence about buying, but I'm really happy with my decision.
On February 27 2012 14:03 Big_Pete1999 wrote: I subscribe/pay for GSL and consider it totally worth every penny. I didn't and won't pay for MLG because it is too laggy, too much downtime, too cheesy (like they just want to end things ASAP), etc.
While I support E-Sports (such as paying for GSL, buying other merchandise, I'm not sure I'll ever pay for MLG. Hell, even GSL lets you watch it for free if you catch it live. I know it costs money for MLG, but that's where sponsors and tickets to attend come into play. Just like other sports (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, Soccer, etc...), they are aired on tv for free, you have to buy a ticket to attend, and they make their money because of sponsors.
I know MLG's stance for a PPV event was to be taken more "seriously", but honestly, I think they took 2 steps back because of the obvious alienation of their fanbase. People who don't attend live events are use to watching for free, so if they want E-Sports to be taken as seriously as other sports, they need to follow their recipe for success (sponsors, paid admission, free stream). It makes more sense to have people pay for VODs than it does to pay to stream it live.
I'll continue to subscribe to GSL because I can't watch it live, therefor, relying on VODs, just like I'll continue to pay for my NFL season tickets, but I don't think I'll ever pay for MLG to watch it stream live. That recipe just doesn't make any sense.
I just want some organization to provide information of the personalities of players similar to what homestory cup did. It paints a better picture for the matches and makes them mean more to the fan. I don't care how they do it. They can add a player discussions or just mic the players. All I know is that the same fluff interviews just won't work. I would be willing to subscribe and pay if they provided that.
On February 27 2012 14:03 Big_Pete1999 wrote: I subscribe/pay for GSL and consider it totally worth every penny. I didn't and won't pay for MLG because it is too laggy, too much downtime, too cheesy (like they just want to end things ASAP), etc.
While I support E-Sports (such as paying for GSL, buying other merchandise, I'm not sure I'll ever pay for MLG. Hell, even GSL lets you watch it for free if you catch it live. I know it costs money for MLG, but that's where sponsors and tickets to attend come into play. Just like other sports (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, Soccer, etc...), they are aired on tv for free, you have to buy a ticket to attend, and they make their money because of sponsors.
I know MLG's stance for a PPV event was to be taken more "seriously", but honestly, I think they took 2 steps back because of the obvious alienation of their fanbase. People who don't attend live events are use to watching for free, so if they want E-Sports to be taken as seriously as other sports, they need to follow their recipe for success (sponsors, paid admission, free stream). It makes more sense to have people pay for VODs than it does to pay to stream it live.
I'll continue to subscribe to GSL because I can't watch it live, therefor, relying on VODs, just like I'll continue to pay for my NFL season tickets, but I don't think I'll ever pay for MLG to watch it stream live. That recipe just doesn't make any sense.
since when is tv free????
In the US most big sports events are aired on "basic" channels which are free.
On February 27 2012 12:47 Angel_ wrote: Yes, if it's not $20.
If we're moving into a model where e-sports charges for the event/season/whatever, MLG has definitely demonstrated that their product is worth paying for (and still needs improvement, always), however...it's not worth $20.
This. From what I saw friday it was nice and I would pay but not 20$.
well what would you be willing to pay?? a whole dollar? holy crap 20 bucks is not that much, next time call me and i'll pay for you.
Add up the total amount of games a GSL season will have. Divide that by $15 and then multiply it by the number of games an Arena will have. That is how much I am willing to pay. That would be between 5-6$ I believe.
i don't know what you're career is but i'm sure you would appreciate making a decent amount of money, Sundance is putting all the money he makes back into mlg so by paying 20 bucks your helping keep mlg around, if that's not worth not getting a good game per dollar ratio then that's fine by me, but i will still be paying 20 dollars.
Paying because you felt bad for him is terrible for E-Sports. No one pays for the HD Sports channels because they feel bad for the NFL. Same with UFC or literally anything else people pay for. A business cannot work like that and honestly the fact they went for that angle when advertising the pass and during the interview with him kind of makes me not want to buy the next pass event if they do try to compare to GSL's game/dollar ratio.
wait let me re-read my post to check if i ever said i felt bad for him or mlg, nope i didn't. how come 20 bucks is 1/4 of your life savings to everyone? it's seriously less than you would spend going to a sit down restaurant or to a movie with your girlfriend
I like how you don't understand why people don't wanna pay $20, and you berate people cause you think $20 is probably too much money for them. $20 isn't much at all. It's the product that you're buying with it, people don't think it's worth it. There are so many other tournaments out there and every one of them has a free stream option. What about MLG is special that it can charge $20, for less games than the GSL?
if you don't want to pay 20 bucks for the product than you don't have to, no one is forcing you to, mlg can do whatever they want and whatever they think is best for them. there was a lot of thought that went into the decision to charge for this even and i'm sure when the number of viewers is released it will be a large number that payed the 20 dollars. mlg is concerned in their well being and it was advantageous for them to charge, whether or not you payed there are many many people who did.
I paid my $15 and I easily got my moneys worth out of it. The players were awesome, the games great, the production quality excellent. Only issues was stream lag and stupid twitch log in bug. Even with the technical foibles it was still worthwhile.
Spending the money a few times a year is no big deal. Now if some tournament is expecting me to pay $20 (or even $5) every weekend I'm out.
No, and I didn't subscribe this time and I didn't watch.
I went over this in another thread, but basically my stance is that PPV will never work for an eSport. I understand why they did it, they are obviously struggling money-wise, but with the profits they make from straight up payments I'm sure they will lose in ad revenue due to massive loss in viewers. This is the internet, why would someone pay for your stream when they could watch any of the hundreds of other streams of SC2 for free. It's not like a sport where events are tied up to cable company contracts and few and far between.
On February 27 2012 14:03 Big_Pete1999 wrote: I subscribe/pay for GSL and consider it totally worth every penny. I didn't and won't pay for MLG because it is too laggy, too much downtime, too cheesy (like they just want to end things ASAP), etc.
While I support E-Sports (such as paying for GSL, buying other merchandise, I'm not sure I'll ever pay for MLG. Hell, even GSL lets you watch it for free if you catch it live. I know it costs money for MLG, but that's where sponsors and tickets to attend come into play. Just like other sports (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, Soccer, etc...), they are aired on tv for free, you have to buy a ticket to attend, and they make their money because of sponsors.
I know MLG's stance for a PPV event was to be taken more "seriously", but honestly, I think they took 2 steps back because of the obvious alienation of their fanbase. People who don't attend live events are use to watching for free, so if they want E-Sports to be taken as seriously as other sports, they need to follow their recipe for success (sponsors, paid admission, free stream). It makes more sense to have people pay for VODs than it does to pay to stream it live.
I'll continue to subscribe to GSL because I can't watch it live, therefor, relying on VODs, just like I'll continue to pay for my NFL season tickets, but I don't think I'll ever pay for MLG to watch it stream live. That recipe just doesn't make any sense.
since when is tv free????
In the US most big sports events are aired on "basic" channels which are free.
Well when MLG can sell the rights to broadcast their tournaments for hundreds of millions of dollars, MLG will gladly stop the PPV.
On February 27 2012 14:11 Sensator wrote: No, and I didn't subscribe this time and I didn't watch.
I went over this in another thread, but basically my stance is that PPV will never work for an eSport. I understand why they did it, they are obviously struggling money-wise, but with the profits they make from straight up payments I'm sure they will lose in ad revenue due to massive loss in viewers. This is the internet, why would someone pay for your stream when they could watch any of the hundreds of other streams of SC2 for free. It's not like a sport where events are tied up to cable company contracts and few and far between.
why have people bought boxing and ufc PPVs when you can watch them for free?
On February 27 2012 12:47 Angel_ wrote: Yes, if it's not $20.
If we're moving into a model where e-sports charges for the event/season/whatever, MLG has definitely demonstrated that their product is worth paying for (and still needs improvement, always), however...it's not worth $20.
This. From what I saw friday it was nice and I would pay but not 20$.
well what would you be willing to pay?? a whole dollar? holy crap 20 bucks is not that much, next time call me and i'll pay for you.
Add up the total amount of games a GSL season will have. Divide that by $15 and then multiply it by the number of games an Arena will have. That is how much I am willing to pay. That would be between 5-6$ I believe.
i don't know what you're career is but i'm sure you would appreciate making a decent amount of money, Sundance is putting all the money he makes back into mlg so by paying 20 bucks your helping keep mlg around, if that's not worth not getting a good game per dollar ratio then that's fine by me, but i will still be paying 20 dollars.
Paying because you felt bad for him is terrible for E-Sports. No one pays for the HD Sports channels because they feel bad for the NFL. Same with UFC or literally anything else people pay for. A business cannot work like that and honestly the fact they went for that angle when advertising the pass and during the interview with him kind of makes me not want to buy the next pass event if they do try to compare to GSL's game/dollar ratio.
wait let me re-read my post to check if i ever said i felt bad for him or mlg, nope i didn't. how come 20 bucks is 1/4 of your life savings to everyone? it's seriously less than you would spend going to a sit down restaurant or to a movie with your girlfriend
I like how you don't understand why people don't wanna pay $20, and you berate people cause you think $20 is probably too much money for them. $20 isn't much at all. It's the product that you're buying with it, people don't think it's worth it. There are so many other tournaments out there and every one of them has a free stream option. What about MLG is special that it can charge $20, for less games than the GSL?
if you don't want to pay 20 bucks for the product than you don't have to, no one is forcing you to, mlg can do whatever they want and whatever they think is best for them. there was a lot of thought that went into the decision to charge for this even and i'm sure when the number of viewers is released it will be a large number that payed the 20 dollars. mlg is concerned in their well being and it was advantageous for them to charge, whether or not you payed there are many many people who did.
And yet if someone doesn't feel the 20$ is worth it you rip on them saying "wow you must be poor not to want to pay 20$" when you have no idea what's going on in that persons life or maybe he/she really doesn't feel like throwing down 20$ for whatever reason.
On February 27 2012 14:03 Big_Pete1999 wrote: I subscribe/pay for GSL and consider it totally worth every penny. I didn't and won't pay for MLG because it is too laggy, too much downtime, too cheesy (like they just want to end things ASAP), etc.
While I support E-Sports (such as paying for GSL, buying other merchandise, I'm not sure I'll ever pay for MLG. Hell, even GSL lets you watch it for free if you catch it live. I know it costs money for MLG, but that's where sponsors and tickets to attend come into play. Just like other sports (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, Soccer, etc...), they are aired on tv for free, you have to buy a ticket to attend, and they make their money because of sponsors.
I know MLG's stance for a PPV event was to be taken more "seriously", but honestly, I think they took 2 steps back because of the obvious alienation of their fanbase. People who don't attend live events are use to watching for free, so if they want E-Sports to be taken as seriously as other sports, they need to follow their recipe for success (sponsors, paid admission, free stream). It makes more sense to have people pay for VODs than it does to pay to stream it live.
I'll continue to subscribe to GSL because I can't watch it live, therefor, relying on VODs, just like I'll continue to pay for my NFL season tickets, but I don't think I'll ever pay for MLG to watch it stream live. That recipe just doesn't make any sense.
since when is tv free????
In the US most big sports events are aired on "basic" channels which are free.
Well when MLG can sell the rights to broadcast their tournaments for hundreds of millions of dollars, MLG will gladly stop the PPV.
When your viewership takes a 80% decline overnight who's gonna pay for commercials?
On February 27 2012 12:47 Angel_ wrote: Yes, if it's not $20.
If we're moving into a model where e-sports charges for the event/season/whatever, MLG has definitely demonstrated that their product is worth paying for (and still needs improvement, always), however...it's not worth $20.
This. From what I saw friday it was nice and I would pay but not 20$.
well what would you be willing to pay?? a whole dollar? holy crap 20 bucks is not that much, next time call me and i'll pay for you.
Add up the total amount of games a GSL season will have. Divide that by $15 and then multiply it by the number of games an Arena will have. That is how much I am willing to pay. That would be between 5-6$ I believe.
i don't know what you're career is but i'm sure you would appreciate making a decent amount of money, Sundance is putting all the money he makes back into mlg so by paying 20 bucks your helping keep mlg around, if that's not worth not getting a good game per dollar ratio then that's fine by me, but i will still be paying 20 dollars.
Paying because you felt bad for him is terrible for E-Sports. No one pays for the HD Sports channels because they feel bad for the NFL. Same with UFC or literally anything else people pay for. A business cannot work like that and honestly the fact they went for that angle when advertising the pass and during the interview with him kind of makes me not want to buy the next pass event if they do try to compare to GSL's game/dollar ratio.
wait let me re-read my post to check if i ever said i felt bad for him or mlg, nope i didn't. how come 20 bucks is 1/4 of your life savings to everyone? it's seriously less than you would spend going to a sit down restaurant or to a movie with your girlfriend
I like how you don't understand why people don't wanna pay $20, and you berate people cause you think $20 is probably too much money for them. $20 isn't much at all. It's the product that you're buying with it, people don't think it's worth it. There are so many other tournaments out there and every one of them has a free stream option. What about MLG is special that it can charge $20, for less games than the GSL?
if you don't want to pay 20 bucks for the product than you don't have to, no one is forcing you to, mlg can do whatever they want and whatever they think is best for them. there was a lot of thought that went into the decision to charge for this even and i'm sure when the number of viewers is released it will be a large number that payed the 20 dollars. mlg is concerned in their well being and it was advantageous for them to charge, whether or not you payed there are many many people who did.
That's pretty obvious. Pay for something you want to pay for. We're arguing about the PPV model vs free stream + advertising model.
On February 27 2012 12:47 Angel_ wrote: Yes, if it's not $20.
If we're moving into a model where e-sports charges for the event/season/whatever, MLG has definitely demonstrated that their product is worth paying for (and still needs improvement, always), however...it's not worth $20.
This. From what I saw friday it was nice and I would pay but not 20$.
well what would you be willing to pay?? a whole dollar? holy crap 20 bucks is not that much, next time call me and i'll pay for you.
$100 is not that much to most people. Would you pay that? Why or why not?
Next I'll ask $1000 and so on and you'll have your answer. Relative value.
On February 27 2012 14:03 Big_Pete1999 wrote: I subscribe/pay for GSL and consider it totally worth every penny. I didn't and won't pay for MLG because it is too laggy, too much downtime, too cheesy (like they just want to end things ASAP), etc.
While I support E-Sports (such as paying for GSL, buying other merchandise, I'm not sure I'll ever pay for MLG. Hell, even GSL lets you watch it for free if you catch it live. I know it costs money for MLG, but that's where sponsors and tickets to attend come into play. Just like other sports (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, Soccer, etc...), they are aired on tv for free, you have to buy a ticket to attend, and they make their money because of sponsors.
I know MLG's stance for a PPV event was to be taken more "seriously", but honestly, I think they took 2 steps back because of the obvious alienation of their fanbase. People who don't attend live events are use to watching for free, so if they want E-Sports to be taken as seriously as other sports, they need to follow their recipe for success (sponsors, paid admission, free stream). It makes more sense to have people pay for VODs than it does to pay to stream it live.
I'll continue to subscribe to GSL because I can't watch it live, therefor, relying on VODs, just like I'll continue to pay for my NFL season tickets, but I don't think I'll ever pay for MLG to watch it stream live. That recipe just doesn't make any sense.
since when is tv free????
In the US most big sports events are aired on "basic" channels which are free.
Well when MLG can sell the rights to broadcast their tournaments for hundreds of millions of dollars, MLG will gladly stop the PPV.
That's gonna be hard when there are several other similar other high-quality tournaments that run their shit for free, are continuously growing, and are gaining more viewers rather than alienating them.
On February 27 2012 12:47 Angel_ wrote: Yes, if it's not $20.
If we're moving into a model where e-sports charges for the event/season/whatever, MLG has definitely demonstrated that their product is worth paying for (and still needs improvement, always), however...it's not worth $20.
This. From what I saw friday it was nice and I would pay but not 20$.
well what would you be willing to pay?? a whole dollar? holy crap 20 bucks is not that much, next time call me and i'll pay for you.
Add up the total amount of games a GSL season will have. Divide that by $15 and then multiply it by the number of games an Arena will have. That is how much I am willing to pay. That would be between 5-6$ I believe.
i don't know what you're career is but i'm sure you would appreciate making a decent amount of money, Sundance is putting all the money he makes back into mlg so by paying 20 bucks your helping keep mlg around, if that's not worth not getting a good game per dollar ratio then that's fine by me, but i will still be paying 20 dollars.
Paying because you felt bad for him is terrible for E-Sports. No one pays for the HD Sports channels because they feel bad for the NFL. Same with UFC or literally anything else people pay for. A business cannot work like that and honestly the fact they went for that angle when advertising the pass and during the interview with him kind of makes me not want to buy the next pass event if they do try to compare to GSL's game/dollar ratio.
wait let me re-read my post to check if i ever said i felt bad for him or mlg, nope i didn't. how come 20 bucks is 1/4 of your life savings to everyone? it's seriously less than you would spend going to a sit down restaurant or to a movie with your girlfriend
I like how you don't understand why people don't wanna pay $20, and you berate people cause you think $20 is probably too much money for them. $20 isn't much at all. It's the product that you're buying with it, people don't think it's worth it. There are so many other tournaments out there and every one of them has a free stream option. What about MLG is special that it can charge $20, for less games than the GSL?
if you don't want to pay 20 bucks for the product than you don't have to, no one is forcing you to, mlg can do whatever they want and whatever they think is best for them. there was a lot of thought that went into the decision to charge for this even and i'm sure when the number of viewers is released it will be a large number that payed the 20 dollars. mlg is concerned in their well being and it was advantageous for them to charge, whether or not you payed there are many many people who did.
And yet if someone doesn't feel the 20$ is worth it you rip on them saying "wow you must be poor not to want to pay 20$" when you have no idea what's going on in that persons life or maybe he/she really doesn't feel like throwing down 20$ for whatever reason.
i never said that anyone was poor and not able to pay the 20 dollars, i think that if you enjoy watching starcraft enough you can come up with the 20 dollars, i'm not ripping on people who are short on cash, sometimes you need to choose between what you're going to spend your 20 dollars on, i know that this past weekend, i chose mlg.
Going from $0-$20 is a big step, considering their competitors are free(ROG had better finals too). I would instantly pay $5 though. Maybe charge $10-15 for awesome features and offer a free stream at least. That was the thing that piss me off I guess, no crappy free stream.
The community needs to realize that not everything is going to have a free option. It would be great if every tournament could have a free option but then the tournament will make no money. I am sure that mlg will evaluate the $20 price and maybe lower for the next event. It is annoying how everyone in the community expects a free stream that is absolutely flawless the whole way through the event. Well guess what, until stracraft is on tv, the lag issues and such will continue and the community will just have to deal with it. If a person is unable to pay $20 to watch the event, well they have to wait for the vods to become free. Thats the bottom line. Every company out there is trying to make money in the long run, these companies are no different. If the community continues to pull out the pitchforks on every single decision that is made, the amount of tournaments will go down.
Things pointing to me subscribing again: Tastosis Great talent Multi-stream format along with other production value adds
Things pointing to me not subscribing again: Fairly expensive compared to other similar products Twitch.tv provided a terrible viewing experience (laggy, lower quality, constant reauthing, stream crashing) Outside of Tastosis I don't think I'm getting the casting experience I want
All of this is completely subjective, I understand that and offer it up in that vein. I would like to continue to support MLG because I appreciate how hard they work, but I'm not sure if they earned my money with this first outing. Perhaps if they acknowledge the streaming issues, make some room for press/fans, and perhaps drop the price slightly, then I'll be back 200%,
On February 27 2012 12:47 Angel_ wrote: Yes, if it's not $20.
If we're moving into a model where e-sports charges for the event/season/whatever, MLG has definitely demonstrated that their product is worth paying for (and still needs improvement, always), however...it's not worth $20.
This. From what I saw friday it was nice and I would pay but not 20$.
well what would you be willing to pay?? a whole dollar? holy crap 20 bucks is not that much, next time call me and i'll pay for you.
$100 is not that much to most people. Would you pay that? Why or why not?
Next I'll ask $1000 and so on and you'll have your answer. Relative value.
i can't say what i would be willing to pay for events because i don't know who will be playing, but in this past weekend's events i found the schedule / bracket worth 20 bucks
From all reports it sounds like it was worth the $20 (though I think a happier pricepoint would be closer to $10), however from my view there was no worth in buying a ticket since I would have only been able to watch 4 hours at most (probably less) since it was a weekend where things happen and things need to be done.
So as a casual viewer, though I think the idea is good, I won't ever be watching them. The PPV aspect of tournaments doesn't turn me off regarding pay, but time and convenience. There's a major convenience in being able to relax for an hour or so in the morning or evening and watch games, but that's all I am: the casual viewer. PPV events aren't made for me anyway =(
To those "omg it's just a dinner, just fork over $20" people, do you understand prices? You pay what you think is fair for something, and if it's a little high you try to get a more fair price. It's seen with big purchases (you'd never pay sticker price for a car), but the principle is the same for this. If you think it's worth $10 or $15 or $5 what's wrong with voicing that? I'm sure people would be able to tell you what they want if they pay $20 for it, no reason to berate people for feeling that their money was a fair amount for what they got in return.
On February 27 2012 14:19 bittman wrote: From all reports it sounds like it was worth the $20 (though I think a happier pricepoint would be closer to $10), however from my view there was no worth in buying a ticket since I would have only been able to watch 4 hours at most (probably less) since it was a weekend where things happen and things need to be done.
So as a casual viewer, though I think the idea is good, I won't ever be watching them. The PPV aspect of tournaments doesn't turn me off regarding pay, but time and convenience. There's a major convenience in being able to relax for an hour or so in the morning or evening and watch games, but that's all I am: the casual viewer. PPV events aren't made for me anyway =(
Not a complaint, just a perspective.
agreed, i on the other hand was able to watch all weekend, so the 20 bucks was 20 well spent because i watched almost every single game, but i understand your point.
Yes, even though im from Western Australia and slept through most of it and had to leave for work during the finals. Great tournament with some fucking fantastic games!
free stream bug is not the bad......lawl. MLG will never get a cent out of me, and i''ll just wait for a week if i can't find a restream. i admit that i'm a cheap ass, but that's just the way people like me are.
On February 27 2012 14:22 Zdrastochye wrote: To those "omg it's just a dinner, just fork over $20" people, do you understand prices? You pay what you think is fair for something, and if it's a little high you try to get a more fair price. It's seen with big purchases (you'd never pay sticker price for a car), but the principle is the same for this. If you think it's worth $10 or $15 or $5 what's wrong with voicing that? I'm sure people would be able to tell you what they want if they pay $20 for it, no reason to berate people for feeling that their money was a fair amount for what they got in return.
lol I guess that's why convenience stores exist. People seem to forget value as price approaches zero. I don't and I don't shop at convenience stores either.
Grubby did an amazing job casting the couple of games he did and I think he would be a great addition, I couldnt stand Tumba or the other solo caster... Apollo would have been a fantastic choice, maybe even a few players with large followings like Destiny for instance, he has some experience and would be a fun co caster addition. Overall if it was 10$ I would buy it again in a heartbeat, and if Day9 showed up 15$ would be fine, I wanted to pay 20$ this time because I feel like supporting MLG in their first try was worth it
I tuned in for the first free game on Friday. It was laggy. My decision was made. I didn't watch it for free either. The games are being released for free in a week right?? Plus if I was to pay $20 I would just sit in my room all weekend..there are no barcrafts in South Carolina.
On February 27 2012 14:03 Big_Pete1999 wrote: I subscribe/pay for GSL and consider it totally worth every penny. I didn't and won't pay for MLG because it is too laggy, too much downtime, too cheesy (like they just want to end things ASAP), etc.
While I support E-Sports (such as paying for GSL, buying other merchandise, I'm not sure I'll ever pay for MLG. Hell, even GSL lets you watch it for free if you catch it live. I know it costs money for MLG, but that's where sponsors and tickets to attend come into play. Just like other sports (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, Soccer, etc...), they are aired on tv for free, you have to buy a ticket to attend, and they make their money because of sponsors.
I know MLG's stance for a PPV event was to be taken more "seriously", but honestly, I think they took 2 steps back because of the obvious alienation of their fanbase. People who don't attend live events are use to watching for free, so if they want E-Sports to be taken as seriously as other sports, they need to follow their recipe for success (sponsors, paid admission, free stream). It makes more sense to have people pay for VODs than it does to pay to stream it live.
I'll continue to subscribe to GSL because I can't watch it live, therefor, relying on VODs, just like I'll continue to pay for my NFL season tickets, but I don't think I'll ever pay for MLG to watch it stream live. That recipe just doesn't make any sense.
since when is tv free????
Seeing I live in the US, it is absolutely free for the "National" channels like CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, etc. which is where you find sports like NFL. Hell, if you want to play that game of saying you need to "buy cable tv" to watch TV, then by your logic, we "buy internet", so shouldn't MLG be streamed for free because "since when is internet free?"
What I'm saying is that IMO, MLG alienated a ton of viewers who would have otherwise watched, and who would have otherwise seen whatever sponsors they could/should have had advertise their products, put subliminal messages in our head to buy their soda or their graphics cards, or whatever they sell.
It isn't that people can't afford $20, or that they are too "cheap" to buy it, it's just that except for very rare things, most people aren't use to having to pay to watch their sports on tv.
I've paid $20 for two orders of shitty egg rolls at this crappy upscale wannabe Thai restaurant. I think 3 days of the amazing I saw is definitely worth it.
I would if they had more bo5's, especially in semi finals.
I feel like players don't get to showcase everything when they are limited to a bo3, for instance g1 is won straight up then g2 won by cheese for a 2-0.
No, I did not subscribe and won't subscribe to the next one.
I have to imagine there's going to be a very skewed amount of "yes" in this thread, though, which won't remotely represent the SC2 viewing community as a whole.
I look forward to seeing how their next regular MLG goes.
edit: Oh and like some other people have said, the price really doesn't matter to me. I'll pay far more money than that for much sillier stuff. The price could be 1 cent and I would not pay, it just has nothing to do with my financials. I'm just against the pricing model and I do not want to support a system I believe is bad for all parties.
On February 27 2012 14:03 Big_Pete1999 wrote: I subscribe/pay for GSL and consider it totally worth every penny. I didn't and won't pay for MLG because it is too laggy, too much downtime, too cheesy (like they just want to end things ASAP), etc.
While I support E-Sports (such as paying for GSL, buying other merchandise, I'm not sure I'll ever pay for MLG. Hell, even GSL lets you watch it for free if you catch it live. I know it costs money for MLG, but that's where sponsors and tickets to attend come into play. Just like other sports (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, Soccer, etc...), they are aired on tv for free, you have to buy a ticket to attend, and they make their money because of sponsors.
I know MLG's stance for a PPV event was to be taken more "seriously", but honestly, I think they took 2 steps back because of the obvious alienation of their fanbase. People who don't attend live events are use to watching for free, so if they want E-Sports to be taken as seriously as other sports, they need to follow their recipe for success (sponsors, paid admission, free stream). It makes more sense to have people pay for VODs than it does to pay to stream it live.
I'll continue to subscribe to GSL because I can't watch it live, therefor, relying on VODs, just like I'll continue to pay for my NFL season tickets, but I don't think I'll ever pay for MLG to watch it stream live. That recipe just doesn't make any sense.
since when is tv free????
Seeing I live in the US, it is absolutely free for the "National" channels like CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, etc. which is where you find sports like NFL. Hell, if you want to play that game of saying you need to "buy cable tv" to watch TV, then by your logic, we "buy internet", so shouldn't MLG be streamed for free because "since when is internet free?"
What I'm saying is that IMO, MLG alienated a ton of viewers who would have otherwise watched, and who would have otherwise seen whatever sponsors they could/should have had advertise their products, put subliminal messages in our head to buy their soda or their graphics cards, or whatever they sell.
It isn't that people can't afford $20, or that they are too "cheap" to buy it, it's just that except for very rare things, most people aren't use to having to pay to watch their sports on tv.
Well see those tv channels you pay for, pay those sporting leagues to broadcast those games. But that ISP you pay, they don't pay MLG a dime. So its not the same thing.
And of those "free sports" you watch on tv, do you see every game for free?
On February 27 2012 14:22 Zdrastochye wrote: To those "omg it's just a dinner, just fork over $20" people, do you understand prices? You pay what you think is fair for something, and if it's a little high you try to get a more fair price. It's seen with big purchases (you'd never pay sticker price for a car), but the principle is the same for this. If you think it's worth $10 or $15 or $5 what's wrong with voicing that? I'm sure people would be able to tell you what they want if they pay $20 for it, no reason to berate people for feeling that their money was a fair amount for what they got in return.
lol I guess that's why convenience stores exist. People seem to forget value as price approaches zero. I don't and I don't shop at convenience stores either.
No, that's the basic principle of economics. People always follow what best interest for them. If there're 2 lines in a coffee shop, and with time is the value unit, you will always see people from the long line to move to the short line until 2 lines are even. With price is the value unit, people will always want a lower price for the product to a price range that they feel comfortable. To a lot of people here, MLG is not deserved $20 for various reasons: casters, atmosphere, convenient time, budget, hate Dr.Pepper products, and so on........ Not many people in the world live in US timezone, have a nice job, budget, can listen to English, freetime in the weekend, like playing SC2,.... The more you raise your price/value tag, the harder people will consider their options. And I don't understand your convenience stores reference. Convenience stores exist because convenience is the value unit, people shop there not because of the price, but to save time and convenient. People like you are the prime target that should shop in the convenience stores. Where do you shop, just curious?
I think alot of the fence hoppers will purchase next time. Assuming they get the pay wall fixed. It was a pretty incredible tournament, and if there hadnt been a bug allowing people to watch for free they would have had many more purchase.
On February 27 2012 14:42 Nagano wrote: I've paid $20 for two orders of shitty egg rolls at this crappy upscale wannabe Thai restaurant. I think 3 days of the amazing I saw is definitely worth it.
Will buy again.
I paid $7 for a 10lb bag of rice 3 months ago and I'm still working on it.
What is this bs btw that mlg HAS to make profit? Mlg does not have to make a profit. Tons of people in tons of different sports organise tournaments not to make profit but because they love a certain sport. They try to break even and they dont try to make monney from it. Like for example badminton, or darts or near anny other smaller sports.
Where did this weird idea come from to monetise sc tournaments, and try make profit from it? its just greed. Its outrageous that they have been selling this as "needed to safe esports and sc",such a bs. Sc does not need to be safed, the tournaments are more popular then ever. They just trying to cash in on the hype.
I think that if MLG wants to generate revenues, then instead of PPV events like this, they should do like GSL does and offer yearly tickets. They should also model their website after GOMtv's so subscribers (as I am with GSL) can easily follow and watch their vods as if they were watching live.
I know that on weekends, I'm just too busy with my family (wife and twin girls 6 years old) to dedicate the entire weekend to watching MLG. My favorite sport is NFL which is why I use it in all my examples, and even then, with my favorite team playing, I get attitude from my wife when I tell her to leave me alone so I can watch my team play (I also pay for my season seats when they are home games).
Point is that maybe if MLG had say a $100/year rate like GSL did this last year for early subscribers, then people would be more apt to buy it. I know that I can justify spending $100/year for something more than I can justify $20 here, $20 there, over and over and over again. Will that $20 add up to $100 in the year? Maybe yes, maybe no. Even if MLG did this 5 times a year at $20 a clip, for whatever reason, I'd rather just pay the money one time, upfront, to know that whenever an MLG event (arena, cities, etc) was on, all I would need to do is log in and watch. Having to pull out my card each time I want to watch something is more of a pain in the ass than anything. My peace of mind is worth $20, and having to pay each time I want to watch an event is anything but "customer friendly".
BTW, I spend $200 this weekend going to the Denver Museum of Nature and Science. Guess what? I bought a YEARLY FAMILY PASS for $80. I then bought IMAX and Planetarium tickets (part of the museum) so we could watch some cool space and dinosaur stuff. All in all, $200. Why did I buy the yearly pass when I could have only payed a fraction of that to go into the museum? Because my peace of mind knowing that any time I want to go there, all I have to do is walk in was well worth the extra up front money. MLG needs to do this. GSL figured it out, so hopefully MLG will as well.
On February 27 2012 15:00 Rassy wrote: Wont pay ever.
What is this bs btw that mlg HAS to make profit? Mlg does not have to make a profit. Tons of people in tons of different sports organise tournaments not to make profit but because they love a certain sport. They try to break even and they dont try to make monney from it. Like for example badminton, or darts or near anny other smaller sports.
Where did this weird idea come from to monetise sc tournaments, and try make profit from it? its just greed. Its outrageous that they have been selling this as "needed to safe esports and sc",such a bs. Sc does not need to be safed, the tournaments are more popular then ever. They just trying to cash in on the hype.
How much profit did mlg make btw?
Ummm I'm sure MLG would like to break even before they start making profit.
I definitely enjoyed this weekend, and would buy the next arena at 20 dollars, but realistically, I think 10-15 is gonna end up working better for MLG. No matter how much they charge, some will view it as too much, but, whatever, I can skip 3 meals from Burger King over the next month and it's money well spent!
The whole idea to try monetise sc and make profit from organising a tournament series is weird.
If add revenu are not enough to cover a tournament in ny with no audience , flights and accomodation paid, no doubt highly paid staff members and a profit on top of it, Then the monney just is not there, and then you should just make cheaper tournaments. Pay the casters less, Pay the staff less, make it internet if noone is allowed to watch it live annyway. You people at mlg want to much from sc, while sc and esports is still in its infancy.
Asking people who bought the game for 50$ to pay 20$ to watch 1 weekend tournament and spend 100$ a year, just on watching the game is so out of proportion. Sc is just one of the games people watch, what if lol and dota and every other game also gonna charge to watch their tournaments? Before you know it you looking at 100$ a month just to watch a few games you like. Imagine having to pay for all sports you see on tv. Even the smaller sports, who cant make lots of monney from adds, are free on tv. so why cant sc be?
meh, will leave this now and not come back to this.
People dont even understand the difference between breaking even and making a profit If you dont make a profit, it does not mean that you go bankrupt You go bankrupt if you make a loss. Between loss and profit is a somewhat small area of break even,
also stop saying that people who are opposed against this model are against esports to grow. thats the most stupid thing ever. >< Realy disapointed in the way the people in favor of this model are pressing their case,there no normal arguments as soon as you dont agree or see it their way you are someone who wants to kill esports LOL
i understand that monney needs to come in,i object where they are trying to find the monney They trying to find the monney with the fans, instead of trying to find the monney in the big cooperations. Even darts does not make their monney from fans, they make it from sponsorships and adds and there is monney in darts, a dutch guy made more then 1 million from darts and related sponsor contracts. Why does sc need to get their monney from the fans? I dont believe that it is needed at all as there are manny tournaments wich have coped without so far
dAPhREAk Japan. February 27 2012 17:16. Posts 2872 you should become a psych as you have such an excelent judgement of character.
My problem is that I'm usually busy on the weekends. With MLG I try to watch what I can, but its usually just a few games here, a few games there. I would have tuned in for most of today, but $20 is a lot of money for one afternoon of games. Watching on friday and saturday was pretty much out of the question for me though.
Plus, paying money for an event without crowds is tough to justify in my opinion. If it was $5 I would have paid for just the last day, maaaaybe $10. But $20 is a heck of a lot to ask for one day of games with no crowd.
Great games but the terrible terrible lag and log in bugs are completely unacceptable after dropping $20 for just this single event. I'll let the next one pass me by until I hear that they have those issues resolved.
i might consider paying if i was going to watch all weekend, but i don't really have the patience for that and the vods are free in a week anyway. if it was $5 or $10 i'd probably pay though, we'll have to see what type of pricing they come up with.
it would be really nice if there was some tiered pricing, so i could pay $5 for just the winner bracket, or just sunday, or 240p, or whatever. they might be able to keep the customers they had at $20 and add a few more who can chip in $5 and use up less bandwidth. just a thought >.>
As a kid with no income, I'd have to say that i'd be hardpressed to pay up the money, i wish there was a survey or something i could do. Personally 20$ isn't that much money for that amount of enterntainment and people seem to be griping about hte smallest details that really wouldn't matter unless you were watching at 720+ ratio with terrible internet. I heard there were some problems but i would atleast try it, 20$ isn't something that would give me a heavy buyers remorse.
It will be dependent on the price. The tournament was great, but even so, 20 bucks is too high. It needs to be 15 bucks maximum. And you can't compare the price of Arena to the price of dinner. MLG is a luxury. I don't have to buy it. The MLG price is high for a SC2 tournament.
But I think Sundance has hinted at the price being adjusted for future Arenas. I can only believe it will be lowered. So it's probably reasonable to expect next Arena to be 15 or maybe even less.
If they lower the price, I will buy it for sure. From what I saw on the Red Bull stream, or whatever it was called, it seemed like good times, if not a bit dead, due to no crowd.
On February 27 2012 15:00 Rassy wrote: Wont pay ever.
What is this bs btw that mlg HAS to make profit? Mlg does not have to make a profit. Tons of people in tons of different sports organise tournaments not to make profit but because they love a certain sport. They try to break even and they dont try to make monney from it. Like for example badminton, or darts or near anny other smaller sports.
Where did this weird idea come from to monetise sc tournaments, and try make profit from it? its just greed. Its outrageous that they have been selling this as "needed to safe esports and sc",such a bs. Sc does not need to be safed, the tournaments are more popular then ever. They just trying to cash in on the hype.
How much profit did mlg make btw?
If MLG can't make a profit, how can you expect them or any league for that matter to be able to self sustain and not go bankrupt? They can only pull so much money from investors, and in order for those investors to feel safe and happy, MLG has to show that they can make back what they spend and then more. If not, those investors will simply pull out and the business is dead. This holds true for every league, with the exception of IPL because IGN backs them and that's a different case, but every other league has to be able to self-sustain eventually, and better sooner than later. It's not greed, it's just common sense that a business only has so much capital and can only spend the money that it has.
Sorry to go off topic, but to be on topic, I enjoyed the Arena this weekend and for me it was worth the price this weekend. I'm not saying it should always be $20, but overall many of the games were very good, the players were top class for the most part and the production was good as well.
The only thing that I really liked about it was the amazing lineup of players. If it wasn't for Barcraft and I had to buy a ticket, then i probably wouldn't have done so. I think the pricing really left a sour note in a lot of people's mouths compared to what else is on offer (e.g. GSL, Assembly). The production value isn't on par with what I've come to expect of MLG and there wasn't that feeling of excitement due to the fact that this is a 'closed' event. I would've paid for it if it was $10, but these days my interest in Starcraft 2 just isn't fervent enough to warrant spending $20 on a 3day tournament
On February 27 2012 15:00 Rassy wrote: Wont pay ever.
What is this bs btw that mlg HAS to make profit? Mlg does not have to make a profit. Tons of people in tons of different sports organise tournaments not to make profit but because they love a certain sport. They try to break even and they dont try to make monney from it. Like for example badminton, or darts or near anny other smaller sports.
Where did this weird idea come from to monetise sc tournaments, and try make profit from it? its just greed. Its outrageous that they have been selling this as "needed to safe esports and sc",such a bs. Sc does not need to be safed, the tournaments are more popular then ever. They just trying to cash in on the hype.
How much profit did mlg make btw?
If MLG can't make a profit, how can you expect them or any league for that matter to be able to self sustain and not go bankrupt? They can only pull so much money from investors, and in order for those investors to feel safe and happy, MLG has to show that they can make back what they spend and then more. If not, those investors will simply pull out and the business is dead. This holds true for every league, with the exception of IPL because IGN backs them and that's a different case, but every other league has to be able to self-sustain eventually, and better sooner than later. It's not greed, it's just common sense that a business only has so much capital and can only spend the money that it has.
Sorry to go off topic, but to be on topic, I enjoyed the Arena this weekend and for me it was worth the price this weekend. I'm not saying it should always be $20, but overall many of the games were very good, the players were top class for the most part and the production was good as well.
he doesnt want them to make a profit. he wants to mooch off them for as long as he can, and could care less whether they go bankrupt or not (as long as he gets what he wants). its a common personality on the forums.
I'm sure the MLG marketing people are happy with all these polls but I'm not sure I like having several very similar topics about it on teamliquid. Just saying.
On February 27 2012 15:00 Rassy wrote: Wont pay ever.
What is this bs btw that mlg HAS to make profit? Mlg does not have to make a profit. Tons of people in tons of different sports organise tournaments not to make profit but because they love a certain sport. They try to break even and they dont try to make monney from it. Like for example badminton, or darts or near anny other smaller sports.
Where did this weird idea come from to monetise sc tournaments, and try make profit from it? its just greed. Its outrageous that they have been selling this as "needed to safe esports and sc",such a bs. Sc does not need to be safed, the tournaments are more popular then ever. They just trying to cash in on the hype.
How much profit did mlg make btw?
Ok. Lets use your darts example. Its a "small" sport because there is no money in it. Players get paid next to nothing and as result the industry around the sport is non-existant.
E-sports is in the same state right now. There are plenty of amateur tournaments that you can watch for FREE. But people like Sundance are trying to build an industry around E-sports. This requires INCOME and REVENUE. Sure, if you want players to continue playing for hundreds of dollars a month so that you can continue to watch things for free, that's cool. But you gotta realize that if you think this way, you are in fact, saying that you don't want e-sports to grow. A sport does not grow without money. There is no such as a free lunch. On the flip side, if Sundance were to use profits from these arena tournaments to line his own pocket, you would have a right to complain. But most reasonable people are expecting him to put the money back into e-sports ( salaries, prize pools, equipment ).
Looks like most of the people who subscribed were impressed enough to pay again. Pretty decent show in my opinion so I agree with those people. I will definitely subscribe to the next one. Great value.
Anyhow, I won't be paying subscription fees for Starcraft in the foreseeable future myself. Certainly not for as long as other events are free and everything in Brood War is free. I'd rather donate the equivalent amount of money to a Shoutcraft Invitational for example.
I'm even less inclined to pay to MLG because as far as I'm concerned, they're spending their money irrationally, which means that I would be spending it irrationally as well.
If they fix their lag problems, clearly yes, otherwise clearly no! The content was very nice, but not in 480p, thats not acceptable in todays time for the price whiler others do it lag-free for no money.
Ok ok ok, as a senior in a top 10 Business school in the USA with a 4.0 (I'm trying hard for Summa Cum Laud) in Accounting, let me say that "making a profit" is needed for GROWTH, but making a profit isn't necessarily needed in order to sustain, unless by sustaining, your product gets stale, which in turn generates less revenue, which ultimately leads to a "loss" and then going under.
The thing is that SC2 isn't exactly a television company still not offering a widescreen, high definition TV, or a computer company refusing to put a decent product together. SC2 has a format and casters. If there isn't a live venue/audience, then besides a latency annoyance, there really isn't much reason to fly everyone into the MLG office, but hey, that's their call.
In my previous posts, I've used NFL as a model. I've gotten a bit of flack from it because it is USA's #1 sports league/revenue generating league/etc... Well, the NFL didn't start that way. NFL was a nothing league paying their players next to nothing, and their owners routinely lost money and had to sell teams or go bankrupt.
Let me tell you though, by NOT charging money for people to watch their product on television (in our case, SC2 steaming online), they started building their fan base. Once a fan base shows constant growth for years, and once that fan base gets so large that they actually start making an impact on other sports/activities because they would rather watch SC2 (or the NFL/AFL back in the 50's-60's), sponsors notice! Once sponsors notice, you better believe they will start throwing money at that sport/e-sport. Once money starts flowing, then growth can occur and a continuously better product is out on display.
This is the model for success. Not only in the USA, but other countries as well. History shows that the "league" shouldn't charge fans to watch their product via television or in our case, online streaming. Money is only paid by the fans to attend the event live. This is the fastest way to build a fan base. Again, once that fan base is large enough, sponsors will kick in the money to improve and more easily distribute that product.
Here in America, television networks pay the league for the "rights" to televise the sport. But where does that network get the money to pay for the rights? They get it from SPONSORS through commercials or other big conglomerates that they are a sister company to. When they get enough money from these sources, they can pay for more and more rights to broadcast the games that they know their fans want to watch. The more games they broadcast, the more people will tune into their station to watch, and the more the sponsors will pay them in return because they know that more and more eyes are watching their commercials/ads. Rinse and repeat. Before you know it, the sports league that DIDN'T charge its fans to watch is a multi million/billion dollar per year league.
I understand why MLG did this PPV, however, they missed their target because of faulty financial advise. Sometimes people let the short term fix destroy a long term solution. I HOPE MLG didn't just do this, because while they might have made some money in the short term because of this PPV event, they might have shot themselves in the foot long term because people might be apprehensive to even click on a link for MLG because the seed has just been planted in their head that they will have to pay in order to watch. Even if that event that people are apprehensive to click on is a free stream, the mere fact that in their head they said "I hope I don't have to pay for this" is a NEGATIVE impact on the fan and fan base. Negative impacts on a fan base is not part of the "recipe for success". You want to shield the negative while pumping the fans full of the positive. This event was mostly negative because fans thought something negative at least once. Whether they paid for it or not, they initially said "what? I need to pay? Ok, that's fair"... but still, they said "what? I need to pay?" before they paid. That was a negative, and negativity is a recipe for failure, not success and growth.
If I have money when the time comes round, I probably will. I really hope they have actual FPVoDs of the players on the streams though, rather than the blizzard cam
It was a very good weekend of SC2 watching and I felt it was $20 well spent. Still, the lack of a real audience made the event pretty lifeless. I have several friends living in New York who would have paid a lot of money to be able to watch it live. I understand that renting a venue is probably not very cost-effective but maybe next time Arenas can be hosted in a less expensive city so that a live audience is possible. Even admitting only...say 100 fans, would have greatly improved the atmosphere.
Yes, although a lower price would be hugely appreciated. Although $20 is still great value for the time that you can actually get out of it, it is not always possible to do so. I only watched maybe 4-5hours this weekend as i'm from australia so i fell asleep through alot of it and had to miss the finals as i had to go to work. I think IPL's model of only $5 makes it alot more accesable for alot more people, also FXO invitational was an optional $5 and that put you into the draw to win some prized every weekend, that was great, i payed that and did not regret it the slightest, i will even continue my suscription to show my support for there great work.
Through the poll it looks like the majority of people who paid for this arena would be a return buyer. If MLG was happy with their numbers, see the price not to change. :o
On February 28 2012 00:26 Big_Pete1999 wrote: Ok ok ok, as a senior in a top 10 Business school in the USA with a 4.0 (I'm trying hard for Summa Cum Laud) in Accounting, let me say that "making a profit" is needed for GROWTH, but making a profit isn't necessarily needed in order to sustain, unless by sustaining, your product gets stale, which in turn generates less revenue, which ultimately leads to a "loss" and then going under.
The thing is that SC2 isn't exactly a television company still not offering a widescreen, high definition TV, or a computer company refusing to put a decent product together. SC2 has a format and casters. If there isn't a live venue/audience, then besides a latency annoyance, there really isn't much reason to fly everyone into the MLG office, but hey, that's their call.
In my previous posts, I've used NFL as a model. I've gotten a bit of flack from it because it is USA's #1 sports league/revenue generating league/etc... Well, the NFL didn't start that way. NFL was a nothing league paying their players next to nothing, and their owners routinely lost money and had to sell teams or go bankrupt.
Let me tell you though, by NOT charging money for people to watch their product on television (in our case, SC2 steaming online), they started building their fan base. Once a fan base shows constant growth for years, and once that fan base gets so large that they actually start making an impact on other sports/activities because they would rather watch SC2 (or the NFL/AFL back in the 50's-60's), sponsors notice! Once sponsors notice, you better believe they will start throwing money at that sport/e-sport. Once money starts flowing, then growth can occur and a continuously better product is out on display.
This is the model for success. Not only in the USA, but other countries as well. History shows that the "league" shouldn't charge fans to watch their product via television or in our case, online streaming. Money is only paid by the fans to attend the event live. This is the fastest way to build a fan base. Again, once that fan base is large enough, sponsors will kick in the money to improve and more easily distribute that product.
Here in America, television networks pay the league for the "rights" to televise the sport. But where does that network get the money to pay for the rights? They get it from SPONSORS through commercials or other big conglomerates that they are a sister company to. When they get enough money from these sources, they can pay for more and more rights to broadcast the games that they know their fans want to watch. The more games they broadcast, the more people will tune into their station to watch, and the more the sponsors will pay them in return because they know that more and more eyes are watching their commercials/ads. Rinse and repeat. Before you know it, the sports league that DIDN'T charge its fans to watch is a multi million/billion dollar per year league.
I understand why MLG did this PPV, however, they missed their target because of faulty financial advise. Sometimes people let the short term fix destroy a long term solution. I HOPE MLG didn't just do this, because while they might have made some money in the short term because of this PPV event, they might have shot themselves in the foot long term because people might be apprehensive to even click on a link for MLG because the seed has just been planted in their head that they will have to pay in order to watch. Even if that event that people are apprehensive to click on is a free stream, the mere fact that in their head they said "I hope I don't have to pay for this" is a NEGATIVE impact on the fan and fan base. Negative impacts on a fan base is not part of the "recipe for success". You want to shield the negative while pumping the fans full of the positive. This event was mostly negative because fans thought something negative at least once. Whether they paid for it or not, they initially said "what? I need to pay? Ok, that's fair"... but still, they said "what? I need to pay?" before they paid. That was a negative, and negativity is a recipe for failure, not success and growth.
First off, I don't see how your school ranking and your GPA matters in this discussion at all. Fact is, Arenas is likely going to be a one-time experiment to determine if a pay-wall model will work for SC2. It's very very difficult to compare something like SC2 to something like the NFL. For starters, the barrier to entry for a company who wants to broadcast SC2 is very low compared to someone trying to start a new professional league for football. As such, there's PLENTY of other organizations that offer free streams. This weekend, you saw the success of Assembly, and on an almost daily basis, the success of GOMTV, which also offers free content. I would contend that these sources are sufficient for promoting Starcraft. I know that I personally spend a good amount of time watching SC2 and I can't even exhaust all of the VODs by GOM, MLG, Assembly, NASL, and YouTube casters.
MLG tried to determine the valuation of esports with Arenas this weekend (or in Econ terms for you: WTB). I would say that the event had either a net positive or a neutral effect on the growth of Starcraft. Those who couldn't pay could still enjoy the other sources that are available EVERY SINGLE DAY. I really don't think anyone is going to associate MLG with a paywall from just this event.
Also, as an aside, please stop comparing SC2 to any other sporting broadcast/event. They depend on two very different fundamental business models and only appear similar on the surface.
Well to be honest, with IPL4 showing how to attract potential paying viewers, I wont subscribe to MLG if they again go ahead and charge $20 for it ..sorry Its nothing about being cheap. I will wait for the vods to show up....
I'll see what the line up(player and caster) is and the format, not sure how two arena's will work out. The thing about MLG is their company is only in e-sports, just like the NASL. The other major tournaments ASUS, Dreamhak, and GSL are all pet projects with these tournaments, it does not matter if they make a profit, as long as they don't lose too much off of the tournament itself, they will make fistfuls of money off of people buying their other products that their parent companies sell.
One big thing, is if it is $20 or not. I don't mind dropping $20 every 3-4 months, but if it is $20 per Arena when spring has two then I will have to pick and choose. If they drop the price to $10 each Arena I will buy forever and ever.
The other big thing will be, who do they use to set up the PPV stream? Twitch.tv dropped the ball big time on this one. Maybe have a system set up like HBO online TV where you need to sign into a webpage to view the "stream player". If they fix this, I will most likely pay again with the factors above satisfactory to my liking.
On February 28 2012 00:26 Big_Pete1999 wrote: Ok ok ok, as a senior in a top 10 Business school in the USA with a 4.0 (I'm trying hard for Summa Cum Laud) in Accounting, let me say that "making a profit" is needed for GROWTH, but making a profit isn't necessarily needed in order to sustain, unless by sustaining, your product gets stale, which in turn generates less revenue, which ultimately leads to a "loss" and then going under.
The thing is that SC2 isn't exactly a television company still not offering a widescreen, high definition TV, or a computer company refusing to put a decent product together. SC2 has a format and casters. If there isn't a live venue/audience, then besides a latency annoyance, there really isn't much reason to fly everyone into the MLG office, but hey, that's their call.
In my previous posts, I've used NFL as a model. I've gotten a bit of flack from it because it is USA's #1 sports league/revenue generating league/etc... Well, the NFL didn't start that way. NFL was a nothing league paying their players next to nothing, and their owners routinely lost money and had to sell teams or go bankrupt.
Let me tell you though, by NOT charging money for people to watch their product on television (in our case, SC2 steaming online), they started building their fan base. Once a fan base shows constant growth for years, and once that fan base gets so large that they actually start making an impact on other sports/activities because they would rather watch SC2 (or the NFL/AFL back in the 50's-60's), sponsors notice! Once sponsors notice, you better believe they will start throwing money at that sport/e-sport. Once money starts flowing, then growth can occur and a continuously better product is out on display.
This is the model for success. Not only in the USA, but other countries as well. History shows that the "league" shouldn't charge fans to watch their product via television or in our case, online streaming. Money is only paid by the fans to attend the event live. This is the fastest way to build a fan base. Again, once that fan base is large enough, sponsors will kick in the money to improve and more easily distribute that product.
Here in America, television networks pay the league for the "rights" to televise the sport. But where does that network get the money to pay for the rights? They get it from SPONSORS through commercials or other big conglomerates that they are a sister company to. When they get enough money from these sources, they can pay for more and more rights to broadcast the games that they know their fans want to watch. The more games they broadcast, the more people will tune into their station to watch, and the more the sponsors will pay them in return because they know that more and more eyes are watching their commercials/ads. Rinse and repeat. Before you know it, the sports league that DIDN'T charge its fans to watch is a multi million/billion dollar per year league.
I understand why MLG did this PPV, however, they missed their target because of faulty financial advise. Sometimes people let the short term fix destroy a long term solution. I HOPE MLG didn't just do this, because while they might have made some money in the short term because of this PPV event, they might have shot themselves in the foot long term because people might be apprehensive to even click on a link for MLG because the seed has just been planted in their head that they will have to pay in order to watch. Even if that event that people are apprehensive to click on is a free stream, the mere fact that in their head they said "I hope I don't have to pay for this" is a NEGATIVE impact on the fan and fan base. Negative impacts on a fan base is not part of the "recipe for success". You want to shield the negative while pumping the fans full of the positive. This event was mostly negative because fans thought something negative at least once. Whether they paid for it or not, they initially said "what? I need to pay? Ok, that's fair"... but still, they said "what? I need to pay?" before they paid. That was a negative, and negativity is a recipe for failure, not success and growth.
First off, I don't see how your school ranking and your GPA matters in this discussion at all. Fact is, Arenas is likely going to be a one-time experiment to determine if a pay-wall model will work for SC2. It's very very difficult to compare something like SC2 to something like the NFL. For starters, the barrier to entry for a company who wants to broadcast SC2 is very low compared to someone trying to start a new professional league for football. As such, there's PLENTY of other organizations that offer free streams. This weekend, you saw the success of Assembly, and on an almost daily basis, the success of GOMTV, which also offers free content. I would contend that these sources are sufficient for promoting Starcraft. I know that I personally spend a good amount of time watching SC2 and I can't even exhaust all of the VODs by GOM, MLG, Assembly, NASL, and YouTube casters.
MLG tried to determine the valuation of esports with Arenas this weekend (or in Econ terms for you: WTB). I would say that the event had either a net positive or a neutral effect on the growth of Starcraft. Those who couldn't pay could still enjoy the other sources that are available EVERY SINGLE DAY. I really don't think anyone is going to associate MLG with a paywall from just this event.
Also, as an aside, please stop comparing SC2 to any other sporting broadcast/event. They depend on two very different fundamental business models and only appear similar on the surface.
thank you for having the balls and knowledge to say what i could only think of
Unfortunately no. The PPV model does provide for many hours of content, but the problem is that this time is all crammed into one weekend, and if I were to purchase, I would be obligated to spend the entire weekend watching. That means very unproductive weekends.
I loved the stream but for $20 dollars.. I want to support MLG but thats a pretty big hit if this is the trend for every tourny. If this was a once-per-year unique event i wouldnt have a problem. But as been said, this is likely the future and I don't see myself dishing out $20 dollars for every event, regardless of reputation of the league or caliber/quantity of players.
SC2 is placed through a medium where people have a mind blowing amount of entertainment options already at their disposal. You have other games LoL, Dota2 and so forth that are gaining/have quite a following. You have recognised sporting organisations NFL, UEFA and so forth. You have broadcasters like the BBC. Even Australian TV stations allow you to view shows online. Streams, news sites, forums, Youtube and even the illegal things like torrents to get shows or other places to watch things. Not all are free on that list of course. But nor was the MLG Arena.
So I don't like the wording of can't pay. Making a decision based on your personal preferences not to buy a product doesn't mean you can't. To say you just can't afford something takes away the fact that people made their own personal informed decisions with regards to MLG this weekend be it paying or not.
To try and say what the event had effect wise on the SC2 community is something only time will tell. MLG success on a small scale with PPV might ensure a return on investment with a low margin that stagnants growth as other tournaments take it up. Or it might also flop and no model currently for the production requirement that people are demanding is sustainable with current viewership. It could the saviour at a lower price point, or even be amazing at $20. Only time will tell.
I didn't pay the $20 because I didn't personally see the value in it. The players I can see elsewhere easily, the prize pool was average and I felt like I could get better entertainment value elsewhere for $20 in this case. I'm not a hardcore SC2 fan. I watch it for fun and I do pay for gomtv, I lurk on forums but I feel no need to see everything all the time. So take my opinion as you will.
On February 27 2012 14:19 Takkara wrote: I don't know if I'll subscribe in the future.
Things pointing to me subscribing again: Tastosis Great talent Multi-stream format along with other production value adds
Things pointing to me not subscribing again: Fairly expensive compared to other similar products Twitch.tv provided a terrible viewing experience (laggy, lower quality, constant reauthing, stream crashing) Outside of Tastosis I don't think I'm getting the casting experience I want
All of this is completely subjective, I understand that and offer it up in that vein. I would like to continue to support MLG because I appreciate how hard they work, but I'm not sure if they earned my money with this first outing. Perhaps if they acknowledge the streaming issues, make some room for press/fans, and perhaps drop the price slightly, then I'll be back 200%,
Exactly my view on this as well.
Hearing Sundance say "twitch has been an incredible partner for this" (ESPORTS interview) was a bit disappointing in that regard. Will have to see if they say anything regarding this because I don't consider $20 for an SD or worse quality stream worth it.
not worth it at all im not gona shell out 20 or more bucks 3-4 times a year to watch something when all the vods are gona be out the week after, the people who actually bought that crap are really really really stupid.
No I did not pay and did not watch. 20$ for a weekend is too much time and too much money. For the MLG events I check out who is playing and when I have free time. I can not spend a whole weekend watching starcraft.
What I would pay for is a few hours of undercard and title match showmatch type thing for like 5$. More PPV one night than whole weekend.
I'm undecided and I did subscribe this time. I'd actually feel better paying for everything all at once (at discounted price). Like someone said on the first page, there wasn't much added I hadn't already seen before. Multiple stream viewing doesn't much appeal to me since I can only follow one game at a time (although no downtime was a huge plus) and in general I really only cared to watch wheat, tastosis, and JP. I feel bad but Rob really isn't my slice of pie, he just seems to be trying WAY to hard to put on an act when the cameras are on.
The games were awesome and I didn't experience significant tech issues. Overall I'm happy but I'm not sure the PPV added enough to the viewer experience to be worth 20 again. Hope the price drops or they give us an all inclusive, yearly sub plan similar to GSL.
On February 28 2012 12:54 vZNuKE wrote: had no issue at all the entire weekend... 20$ is not alot considering the amount of work that was put into it.
People need to stop being cheap and support eSports.
I support esports, just not MLG.
Got any other stupid arguments to throw out there?
Do you buy products? Do you pay for other tournaments? Do you pay for coaching? Do you contribute directly to any players/casters? (what reddit community did for mkp and day9) How do you support esports?
I'd say MLG contributes to esports more than anything else in the world. They have a big variety of games They have a variety of apparel They pay for their players to play They have competitive prizes They are highly involved in the community
You can't really say that you fully support esports if you don't support MLG imo. (not that you said fully, I'm just saying)
On February 28 2012 12:54 vZNuKE wrote: had no issue at all the entire weekend... 20$ is not alot considering the amount of work that was put into it.
People need to stop being cheap and support eSports.
I support esports, just not MLG.
Got any other stupid arguments to throw out there?
Do you buy products? Do you pay for other tournaments? Do you pay for coaching? Do you contribute directly to any players/casters? (what reddit community did for mkp and day9) How do you support esports?
I'd say MLG contributes to esports more than anything else in the world. They have a big variety of games They have a variety of apparel They pay for their players to play They have competitive prizes They are highly involved in the community
You can't really say that you fully support esports if you don't support MLG imo. (not that you said fully, I'm just saying)
So I'm assuming you do ALL of those things, including pay for GOM, pay for HQ qual of tournaments that sell that, pay for all extra content everywhere possibly for ALL esport games? If no, then you're clearly not supporting esports (according to your own twisted view of what support is)
People have got to get off their high horse and think that MLG is the best and one and only thing to support out there. Following your logic anyone who doesn't give money to GOM isn't fully supporting esports.
I was one of those that coughed up the 20$. Initially i said that it was totally worth it but looking at it at from a retrospect i can say that the only thing that made it worth the money was the games. Well then you can say that MLG bought their plane tickets and those were not cheap and this was the only way they could finance the event and without that this wouldn't have happened. But, it feels like they are taking a advantage of the core fans and did little to polish their product when it came to overall production. We were promised a event that would blow our minds but other then the games that MLG had little to do with i felt that this was a thing MLG tried to se if they could bring in some easy $. The lack of audience and the total lack of prize ceremony was painful and even the players felt that it was sad to travel and not to play in front of foreign fans. I wont comment on the Twitch LAG history because i think it's been beaten to death and next time MLG wont use twitch(they are really stupid if they do and keept the 20$ tag).
I'd pay 20$ again if it was pretty much the same thing minus the lag. I was pretty upset that, given something I had paid for to be in HD, I strictly had to watch it at the lowest setting in order for it to not lag constantly (it still lagged). I tried many other streams, restarting internet, fiddling with options--it was very much on their end of the issues and it was a little disappointing. Well, very disappointing.
The good part of it though was every match felt like it was a grand finals match and honestly the grand finals were pretty fucking tense. I wanted MarineKing Prime to win -so- badly and when he did and the shot of him with his head down was shown I was -way- too excited.
If it weren't for how absurdly amazing and awesome every match I saw was then I'd be a lot more upset. I have no idea what was wrong with their stream, but it was brutal. Some games I just had to listen to artosis lull me with that sexy ass voice.
Bought it, would probably buy it again too (as long as they aren't too often). I was pretty annoyed about how easy it was to find free streams or workarounds. Psychologically this devalued the product for me.
Everyone has already mentioned most of the problems, but overall I enjoyed the viewing experience. One thing this whole experiment taught me is how extremely fickle SC2 fans are.
On February 28 2012 12:54 vZNuKE wrote: had no issue at all the entire weekend... 20$ is not alot considering the amount of work that was put into it.
People need to stop being cheap and support eSports.
I support esports, just not MLG.
Got any other stupid arguments to throw out there?
Do you buy products? Do you pay for other tournaments? Do you pay for coaching? Do you contribute directly to any players/casters? (what reddit community did for mkp and day9) How do you support esports?
I'd say MLG contributes to esports more than anything else in the world. They have a big variety of games They have a variety of apparel They pay for their players to play They have competitive prizes They are highly involved in the community
You can't really say that you fully support esports if you don't support MLG imo. (not that you said fully, I'm just saying)
So I'm assuming you do ALL of those things, including pay for GOM, pay for HQ qual of tournaments that sell that, pay for all extra content everywhere possibly for ALL esport games? If no, then you're clearly not support esports (according to your own twisted view of what support is)
People have got to get off their high horse and think that MLG is the best and one and only thing to support out there. Following your logic anyone who doesn't give money to GOM isn't fully supporting esports.
No, I don't do all those things I never once said that you need all of that to support e-sports either i'm simply asking what YOU do and by your answer it seems that you do nothing but watch free streams (probably with ad block)
Personally, I pay for GSL and MLG. I also didn't watch more than 2 games of MLG this weekend and I probably won't get to watch them for another week and I don't care that they will be free. I'm also a full time university student living on my own off a part time income, so it's not like I have so much money that I don't know what to do with it.
So, let me ask you again how do YOU support esports?
On February 27 2012 12:41 Jibba wrote: I'll be waiting for the caster information before deciding. It just didn't live up to my expectations. On the whole, I thought Assembly's casting was much better. Much of the casting added very little to the games, and some of it made the games annoying to watch. I used mute more than I usually do.
The production quality was very good, but I wouldn't say it was excellent. The cast of players was incredible, but it actually seemed like there was less player coverage than usual. I think there was just one and sometimes two interviews for many (not all) of the players, which is a lot less extra coverage than I expected, given it took place in MLG's office and they had extra streams all the time.
The streaming interface and JTV definitely had issues as well, although I'm not sure how strongly that factors into my decision.
On February 28 2012 12:54 vZNuKE wrote: had no issue at all the entire weekend... 20$ is not alot considering the amount of work that was put into it.
People need to stop being cheap and support eSports.
I support esports, just not MLG.
Got any other stupid arguments to throw out there?
Do you buy products? Do you pay for other tournaments? Do you pay for coaching? Do you contribute directly to any players/casters? (what reddit community did for mkp and day9) How do you support esports?
I'd say MLG contributes to esports more than anything else in the world. They have a big variety of games They have a variety of apparel They pay for their players to play They have competitive prizes They are highly involved in the community
You can't really say that you fully support esports if you don't support MLG imo. (not that you said fully, I'm just saying)
So I'm assuming you do ALL of those things, including pay for GOM, pay for HQ qual of tournaments that sell that, pay for all extra content everywhere possibly for ALL esport games? If no, then you're clearly not support esports (according to your own twisted view of what support is)
People have got to get off their high horse and think that MLG is the best and one and only thing to support out there. Following your logic anyone who doesn't give money to GOM isn't fully supporting esports.
No, I don't do all those things I never once said that you need all of that to support e-sports either i'm simply asking what YOU do and by your answer it seems that you do nothing but watch free streams (probably with ad block)
Personally, I pay for GSL and MLG. I also didn't watch more than 2 games of MLG this weekend and I probably won't get to watch them for another week and I don't care that they will be free. I'm also a full time university student living on my own off a part time income, so it's not like I have so much money that I don't know what to do with it.
So, let me ask you again how do YOU support esports?
On February 28 2012 12:54 vZNuKE wrote: had no issue at all the entire weekend... 20$ is not alot considering the amount of work that was put into it.
People need to stop being cheap and support eSports.
I support esports, just not MLG.
Got any other stupid arguments to throw out there?
Do you buy products? Do you pay for other tournaments? Do you pay for coaching? Do you contribute directly to any players/casters? (what reddit community did for mkp and day9) How do you support esports?
I'd say MLG contributes to esports more than anything else in the world. They have a big variety of games They have a variety of apparel They pay for their players to play They have competitive prizes They are highly involved in the community
You can't really say that you fully support esports if you don't support MLG imo. (not that you said fully, I'm just saying)
So I'm assuming you do ALL of those things, including pay for GOM, pay for HQ qual of tournaments that sell that, pay for all extra content everywhere possibly for ALL esport games? If no, then you're clearly not support esports (according to your own twisted view of what support is)
People have got to get off their high horse and think that MLG is the best and one and only thing to support out there. Following your logic anyone who doesn't give money to GOM isn't fully supporting esports.
No, I don't do all those things I never once said that you need all of that to support e-sports either i'm simply asking what YOU do and by your answer it seems that you do nothing but watch free streams (probably with ad block)
Personally, I pay for GSL and MLG. I also didn't watch more than 2 games of MLG this weekend and I probably won't get to watch them for another week and I don't care that they will be free. I'm also a full time university student living on my own off a part time income, so it's not like I have so much money that I don't know what to do with it.
So, let me ask you again how do YOU support esports?
I hate this kind of argument. E-sports should be worth the money you spend on it because it is awesome. NOT because you feel some pity/obligation to donate. There is a lot more worthy charities in this world than e-sports. The pity dollar shouldn't be a long term goal or one that will grow e-sports past anything than a niche market. The sooner people get off this silly notion of everyone has to support e-sports and cough up whatever money is asked of them, the better the products and the growth of the community will be imho.
the whole weekend was worth it...except day9 not being there...didnt like the other streams casters AT ALL!
and the ending was soooo BAD i didnt know what to make of it...i had the stream up for an hour after to see if there was a ceremony...and there was not...
didnt seem like ane end to a tournament...just an end to one of the beginning days
On February 28 2012 12:54 vZNuKE wrote: had no issue at all the entire weekend... 20$ is not alot considering the amount of work that was put into it.
People need to stop being cheap and support eSports.
I support esports, just not MLG.
Got any other stupid arguments to throw out there?
Do you buy products? Do you pay for other tournaments? Do you pay for coaching? Do you contribute directly to any players/casters? (what reddit community did for mkp and day9) How do you support esports?
I'd say MLG contributes to esports more than anything else in the world. They have a big variety of games They have a variety of apparel They pay for their players to play They have competitive prizes They are highly involved in the community
You can't really say that you fully support esports if you don't support MLG imo. (not that you said fully, I'm just saying)
So I'm assuming you do ALL of those things, including pay for GOM, pay for HQ qual of tournaments that sell that, pay for all extra content everywhere possibly for ALL esport games? If no, then you're clearly not support esports (according to your own twisted view of what support is)
People have got to get off their high horse and think that MLG is the best and one and only thing to support out there. Following your logic anyone who doesn't give money to GOM isn't fully supporting esports.
No, I don't do all those things I never once said that you need all of that to support e-sports either i'm simply asking what YOU do and by your answer it seems that you do nothing but watch free streams (probably with ad block)
Personally, I pay for GSL and MLG. I also didn't watch more than 2 games of MLG this weekend and I probably won't get to watch them for another week and I don't care that they will be free. I'm also a full time university student living on my own off a part time income, so it's not like I have so much money that I don't know what to do with it.
So, let me ask you again how do YOU support esports?
On February 28 2012 12:54 vZNuKE wrote: had no issue at all the entire weekend... 20$ is not alot considering the amount of work that was put into it.
People need to stop being cheap and support eSports.
I support esports, just not MLG.
Got any other stupid arguments to throw out there?
Do you buy products? Do you pay for other tournaments? Do you pay for coaching? Do you contribute directly to any players/casters? (what reddit community did for mkp and day9) How do you support esports?
I'd say MLG contributes to esports more than anything else in the world. They have a big variety of games They have a variety of apparel They pay for their players to play They have competitive prizes They are highly involved in the community
You can't really say that you fully support esports if you don't support MLG imo. (not that you said fully, I'm just saying)
So I'm assuming you do ALL of those things, including pay for GOM, pay for HQ qual of tournaments that sell that, pay for all extra content everywhere possibly for ALL esport games? If no, then you're clearly not support esports (according to your own twisted view of what support is)
People have got to get off their high horse and think that MLG is the best and one and only thing to support out there. Following your logic anyone who doesn't give money to GOM isn't fully supporting esports.
No, I don't do all those things I never once said that you need all of that to support e-sports either i'm simply asking what YOU do and by your answer it seems that you do nothing but watch free streams (probably with ad block)
Personally, I pay for GSL and MLG. I also didn't watch more than 2 games of MLG this weekend and I probably won't get to watch them for another week and I don't care that they will be free. I'm also a full time university student living on my own off a part time income, so it's not like I have so much money that I don't know what to do with it.
So, let me ask you again how do YOU support esports?
I hate this kind of argument. E-sports should be worth the money you spend on it because it is awesome. NOT because you feel some pity/obligation to donate. There is a lot more worthy charities in this world than e-sports. The pity dollar shouldn't be a long term goal or one that will grow e-sports past anything than a niche market. The sooner people get off this silly notion of everyone has to support e-sports and cough up whatever money is asked of them, the better the products and the growth of the community will be imho.
I never said it was a charity, I don't see where you are getting this notion from. I paid the 20 dollars because I feel that the content is awesome and worth watching, regardless if it's free at the time that I am able to watch it or not.
Also, I don't think there are many people who feel pity/obligation to 'donate' into esports. It's not like somebody is passing around a basket for you to donate and watching you to see how much money you are going to donate. If I pay is because I feel it's worth my money, and because I enjoy it. Simple as that
Unless something catastrophic happens in my life and I can't afford it, I will definately buy another MLG Arena Weekend. Matches were top notch, and I didn't have lag issues (besides the cutout in 3set finals ). Overview mode was awesome, and the speed with witch matches got played really impressed me. I still have a few matches I need to VOD.
Quality games, quality players, low downtime, and a fast pace made me a happy camper.
I feel really bad for the players that flew thousands of miles and lost their first two matches. They didn't even have a crowd to cheer them on and interact with them, they just had to face cold hard failure in a room filled only with competitors and crew.
On February 28 2012 14:53 bovineblitz wrote: I feel really bad for the players that flew thousands of miles and lost their first two matches. They didn't even have a crowd to cheer them on and interact with them, they just had to face cold hard failure in a room filled only with competitors and crew.
That is a pretty ridiculous way to look at it. They got a free trip to fucking new york. I would think they would be stoked. Crowds are awesome, but a well run lan is always fun. Hang out with friends and play starcraft in one of the most awesome cities in the world.
On February 27 2012 12:47 Angel_ wrote: Yes, if it's not $20.
If we're moving into a model where e-sports charges for the event/season/whatever, MLG has definitely demonstrated that their product is worth paying for (and still needs improvement, always), however...it's not worth $20.
This. From what I saw friday it was nice and I would pay but not 20$.
well what would you be willing to pay?? a whole dollar? holy crap 20 bucks is not that much, next time call me and i'll pay for you.
Add up the total amount of games a GSL season will have. Divide that by $15 and then multiply it by the number of games an Arena will have. That is how much I am willing to pay. That would be between 5-6$ I believe.
i don't know what you're career is but i'm sure you would appreciate making a decent amount of money, Sundance is putting all the money he makes back into mlg so by paying 20 bucks your helping keep mlg around, if that's not worth not getting a good game per dollar ratio then that's fine by me, but i will still be paying 20 dollars.
Paying because you felt bad for him is terrible for E-Sports. No one pays for the HD Sports channels because they feel bad for the NFL. Same with UFC or literally anything else people pay for. A business cannot work like that and honestly the fact they went for that angle when advertising the pass and during the interview with him kind of makes me not want to buy the next pass event if they do try to compare to GSL's game/dollar ratio.
wait let me re-read my post to check if i ever said i felt bad for him or mlg, nope i didn't. how come 20 bucks is 1/4 of your life savings to everyone? it's seriously less than you would spend going to a sit down restaurant or to a movie with your girlfriend
If I got shitty service or a bad meal at a restaurant, i'd get a discount/free meal. If the projector at the movies kept flickering on and off, i'd get a refund.
I had insane lag for the majority of an event i paid $20 for. I am still waiting for answers from MLG/Twitch after one email claiming the "issue would be fixed within 20 minutes". Not happy and won't be paying again.
Oh, and the lack of a crowd killed it for me, no matter how good the games/players were. There was no atmosphere, and I wasn't impressed with the casting of JP and Wheat, it just grated on my nerves.
I just wanted to point out that I didn't subscribe, still watched, and don't plan to subscribe in the future.
However, I wasn't pirating the games, I watched at a Barcraft. The Barcraft was a fun experience, I'll probably do that for the next MLG PPV event. But I'm never actually going to give MLG that kind of money directly. Even though I'm in the US, I'm west coast, and the times are just kinda awkward. Add to that the fact that I want to do other things than watch Starcraft all weekend, and just watching the finals on Sunday makes way more sense to me.
I do have to say though, there was no analysis or learning going on at the barcraft. I'm going to keep doing free streams at home with friends, and go to barcrafts specifically for PPV events.
No i wont pay or watch MLG, for australia the time difference is just so bad. I have tried watching MLG over a weekend before and came out feeling shit and extremely tired.
For a lower price (max 10$) and a better caster distribution I may consider purchasing the next one.
I don't want to bash any caster but having (I think it was MKP - Huk) the Winner Bracket finals casted by DjWheat and JP was just... I don't know. Please get atleast one caster who plays the game on a high level per cast (Artosis, one of the players who is good at casting like ThorZaiN, Grubby, who ever wants too) to cast such an important match :/. Two play by play casters (both are decent at what they're doing (play by play), but together the cast lacked depth imo) together makes for a rather awkward/dull/shallow cast.
No, i Subcribed this time, but I simply watch to less games, most of the matches are played between 11:00 and 05:00 european time, and I gotta sleep then
- The casting gets better (yes, Tastosis was boring too!) - Player Interviews get interesting (incredibly boring, there's a thread somewhere that brillantly explains it) - There is more information on the players or storylines
Watching games in 1080p is nice and all, BUT this is possible everywhere, anytime, with all the good streams out there. For $20, I would like to have a little extra: better casting (pros casting is always good, fresh faces also, and casters that don't do what everyone does is good), and more out-of-game content.
Production was great. But Production is getting better everywhere. I liked Assembly better. Expecially Rotterdam/Bitter and Apollo
I will gladly pay for their next arena if they could provide all of the followings in their next arena (which they already did in this arena to some extent), [O]: Already in existence in the Winter Arena [X]: Non-existence in the Winter Arena
•More suitable price (price justifies the product) [X]: I will be fine with somewhere between $12-$15 but $12 is more preferable.
•Ad-free [O]
•Minimum lag stream [X]: I know its impossible to run a stream that has no lag across all regions, minimum lag issue is okay, but the lags during Day 3 Winter Arena is kinda meh.
•Highest level of competition (high-level plays) [O]
•Fair production & professionalism [O]
•Minimum downtime [O]
•Minimum technical difficulties [O]
•Restream or rebroadcast from previous day of the event (like we have in MLG Pro Circuit 2011) [X]: Being able to watch the entire or a portion of the previous day of the event that I missed out due to being in different time zone is always better than watching separate VoDs.
•Simple and organised VoD systems
HD resolution, fancy productions, players personalities presentation comes second to all the points I listed above HD or not: when I'm watching a stream, I don't really care about the resolution as long as there's minimum lag and it is watchable (480p).
Content > Production: I'm looking into the content provided more than the fancy production but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy it. Its just content (quality of games, competition, caster, observing, etc) is my top priority when I'm watching the stream.
What I like about this Winter Arena event •Customizable stream features and layouts. •The event provides full accommodation for the players. ♥
Lack of crowd, lack of energy? I only cared about the games so the lack of fans cheering doesn't really bother me that much. As long as there's players' personalities in there, its all good for me.
All in all, I hope MLG the best of luck in their next Arena and looking forward possibly buying the ticket for the next Arena as more information come out.
If this event has a free stream option available like other event, I opted to watch the free streams like I always did in other events that have free stream option available for me. 480p or 360p is like no problem for me. And ads in the free streams don't bother me at all because I know I'm watching a free stream. (I guess I'm just a minority) But, that doesn't mean I feel that the ppv model = best model though. I'm not against or for the ppv model, more choice is better than less.
I would never subscribe. It just cannot be the future of esports to pay for everytime you want to watch a tournament. Assembly and Dreamhack show how you can have a lag free HD free stream. That's the way it should be.
I feel that mlg should at least have a low quality free stream like gsl. I guess there should be another poll that ask whether people are willing to pay for higher quality stream even if there was a free low quality stream
Sundance Great job! I think you're really on to something here that could change the Esports format. I didn't subscribe, but I def will next time around (I heard from European friends it was amazing etc.) But I was thinking maybe that you could lower the price a little and make great package deals etc. That way you can lure in more customers (like myself) and shut the whiners that complain it's too expensive.
On February 28 2012 17:48 Ampster wrote: •Restream or rebroadcast from previous day of the event (like we have in MLG Pro Circuit 2011) [X]: Being able to watch the entire or a portion of the previous day of the event that I missed out due to being in different time zone is always better than watching separate VoDs.
You can already do that if you watch the vods directly on twitch.tv's site (e.g. twitch.tv/mlg_arena/videos). Granted, I don't think MLG tells you anywhere how to do that exactly.
On February 28 2012 17:48 Ampster wrote: •Restream or rebroadcast from previous day of the event (like we have in MLG Pro Circuit 2011) [X]: Being able to watch the entire or a portion of the previous day of the event that I missed out due to being in different time zone is always better than watching separate VoDs.
You can already do that if you watch the vods directly on twitch.tv's site (e.g. twitch.tv/mlg_arena/videos). Granted, I don't think MLG tells you anywhere how to do that exactly.
Oh well, I guess they already covered in that department. What's left is probably the lag and the prize. Thanks for telling.
As long as I have nothing going on. I will be subscribing to every MLG arena. Quality was amazing, they had some great casters, and I really enjoyed how the casters would get the opinion from other casters after the game, or pro gamers, in catz case. There were some lag issues that I'm sure will be fixed in the future, but not enough to ruin the event. I think they could also pick up a couple better casters for the next event. Totally worth 20 bucks.
I kept an eye on the results over the weekend, and was excited to hear about MKP winning (yay ), but there is no way I can dedicate the time to watch enough over the weekend to justify $20, and would feel the same about future weekends as well (I have a life outside of my SC2 hobby).
I'm looking forward to checking out the VoD's when they are released to get a better feeling for the event and catch some of the better games. That's enough for me
If they had a $5 ticket that gave instant access to VoD's or maybe access to a low quality stream I'd definitely consider a future ticket. I'd probably be prepared to pay up to $10 for this, but any more it wouldn't be worth it for me as I don't have the time to watch enough of the games.
I'd love to get some detailed feedback from MLG about how successful this event was for them, but I'm not expecting to see this. I guess we'll know based on how they price the second Arena.
I think if for the next Arena the reddit topic about restreams gets enough upvotes to be on the frontpage than MLG will find themselves in the hilarious position where the restreams of their event will have more viewers than their official stream. This time around, the most popular restream had more than 20 000 viewers during the final matches.
Regarding the question, no, I did not pay and will not ever pay for a PPV because I strongly disagree with MLG's business model. I think in this case a free 360p stream and a 10$ ticket for 480p+ would have made MLG -MORE- money than what they did, while also keeping their viewer numbers very high and not alienating any existing or potential new Starcraft 2 fans. I would have gladly paid in such a case.
i think i would subscribe for a mlg europe arena, but as it is the times are just bad for europe, i can never catch all games. i know its not the right thing to do, but i think i will watch some games via restreams at future arenas
My question is why should I pay money again when the masses will just watch it for free anyway and then complain about the product as if they have a right to complain when not paying for it. If they do a paywall again, after this seasons arena I'll definitely wait until the tournament starts to see if there's an easy way around it before I pay.
Was well worth the money, but I bought it at the last minute because it is a lot of time you have to dedicate to watching, and i wanted to ensure i had that time. I will buy it again if i have the time
On February 27 2012 12:29 Myles wrote: Good: Code S caliber player lineup,
This is wrong. Yes, there were S-class players in the lineup, but there were also players that wouldn't stand the slightest chance in code S, so I wouldn't call it an S-class lineup.
Nah i wont and i subbed this time, unless its not ran on twitch tv, they always screw me over with lag at the most annoying occasions, if the price was lower than 20 and it wasnt on twitch i would purchase.
On February 28 2012 21:15 Pure-SC2 wrote: I kept an eye on the results over the weekend, and was excited to hear about MKP winning (yay ), but there is no way I can dedicate the time to watch enough over the weekend to justify $20, and would feel the same about future weekends as well (I have a life outside of my SC2 hobby).
That's my problem as well. 20$ for the amount of content they provide might be fine (though still a tough decision with other weekend tournaments (HSC) being way cheaper). But I cannot watch all the content, because of time constraints. For me it would be "20$ for about 4hours on sunday" - and that's just not worth it. So a final (day) only option would be appreciated by me.
EPT
