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Ladder flaws when race switching - Page 13

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Capulet
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Canada686 Posts
April 16 2012 03:08 GMT
#241
It's not as simple as allowing one account to have 4 different MMRs, one for each race + random. I'm sure there are problems we are overlooking. For one thing, how would you account for GM league when a player like TLO can easily get GM with all 3 races?
"I'm just killing the spiders to save the butterflies... Wanting to save both is a contradiction. What would you rather do? Keep deliberating? The butterfly will be eaten in the meantime."
harlock78
Profile Joined November 2011
United States94 Posts
April 16 2012 03:28 GMT
#242
This is a huge problem. There is no reason for it to not be like in War3 except Blizzard new greediness. Especially when it is so hard to get meaningful custom games on a variety of maps with equally skilled opponents.
Early on Blizzard did state that if enough players mentioned it, they'd think about a new system.
This trend of putting DRMs everywhere or accounts limitations is a complete turn off. I don't know if they thought hard or if their greediness prevented their thinking. What is sure is that if this is not changed, I will not buy HOTS, and prolly just torrent the singleplayer.
Abort Retry Fail
Profile Joined December 2011
2636 Posts
April 16 2012 03:50 GMT
#243
You're asking too much. Your rank should reflect your overall skills, regardless of race.
BSOD
JDub
Profile Joined December 2010
United States976 Posts
April 16 2012 03:53 GMT
#244
Well I can think of one actually legitimate reason why the "separate mmrs for separate races" would be a bad thing. Personally, I played random up until I hit masters. I started to hit a wall, then chose Zerg. Because switching races didn't change my MMR, I got to keep going from where I left off as random. Having to win my way back up to masters as Zerg would have been a waste of time.

That said, I don't think this is enough of a reason not to have separate MMRs. I ended up buying a separate account to play Terran since my Zerg was up at mid to high-ish masters and I wanted to preserve my Zerg MMR. Then again, I had no problem buying a second account, so I guess Blizzard made a pretty good business decision for people like me.
Chocobo
Profile Joined November 2006
United States1108 Posts
April 16 2012 03:54 GMT
#245
On April 16 2012 12:50 Abort Retry Fail wrote:
You're asking too much. Your rank should reflect your overall skills, regardless of race.

I wish I could get people who respond like this to answer in more detail.

Why do you think it's OK for people to have to either 1) waste hours de-ranking to offrace, then rank up on their main race again or 2) never play more than 1 race? Why is this situation a better option than allowing people to learn all 3 races?

So many answers simply say "screw you, you want too much, you're greedy" and give no reasons for it. Or am I just letting myself be trolled?
Amlitzer
Profile Joined August 2010
United States471 Posts
April 16 2012 03:56 GMT
#246
Well that is bnet 0.2 for you, the technology just isn't there yet! Maybe if we give blizzard more money they might find a solution!
"Not even justice, I want to get truth!"
mrRoflpwn
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States2618 Posts
April 16 2012 03:56 GMT
#247
So I guess this is another elaborate and terribly concealed rant about Battle.net and why each race should have a seperate ladder ranking? This is number #325 i think
Long live the Boss Toss!
Spicy_Curry
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States10573 Posts
April 16 2012 04:00 GMT
#248
On April 16 2012 12:08 Capulet wrote:
It's not as simple as allowing one account to have 4 different MMRs, one for each race + random. I'm sure there are problems we are overlooking. For one thing, how would you account for GM league when a player like TLO can easily get GM with all 3 races?


only one battletag allowed in gm would solve that problem
High Risk Low Reward
FairForever
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada2392 Posts
April 16 2012 04:04 GMT
#249
On April 16 2012 13:00 Spicy_Curry wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2012 12:08 Capulet wrote:
It's not as simple as allowing one account to have 4 different MMRs, one for each race + random. I'm sure there are problems we are overlooking. For one thing, how would you account for GM league when a player like TLO can easily get GM with all 3 races?


only one battletag allowed in gm would solve that problem


Buying a second account would solve the MMR problem too.

People like me have bought multiple accounts to play multiple races. Why would Blizzard limit their revenue?
MonkSEA
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Australia1227 Posts
April 16 2012 04:06 GMT
#250
On April 16 2012 11:09 Grackula wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2012 10:57 MonkSEA wrote:
On April 16 2012 10:39 ant-1 wrote:
Sadly, Nony is right. Blizzard will not give you more bang for your bucks, because, well, it costs them to deliver, and you knew what you signed on when you bought the game. New stuff will be wrapped up in expansions.
As for the OP whining, I understand (I own two copies of SC2 just to have 2 races to play at different levels), but, well, it's just a corporate decision you have to swallow. And you know what, it makes sense, because 99% of people don't care if they cannot have multiple quasi-accounts for each race and random.
And the WoW analogy does not stand, because in Wow even a casual can hit the level cap fairly quickly, so it makes sense to allow multiple charactrers.



His point was not playing them simultaneously not anything to do with more character slots.

I agree with Nony, you got what you paid for. Entitled egotistical kids expect more since they're spoilt little shits.


But you're still going to buy expansions even after you've eaten the corporations shit, which will encourage them to threat their customers even more like a wallet for the least amount of work possible.

I can hardly believe your post is serious

This goes for all the other posts who want to give money to blizzard for things they can do in a few hours of work with 2 devs


Yes, I will still buy expansions because I enjoy the franchise. Just because Blizzard can do this in a few hours work(even though you have no idea if it is a few hours or not since you didn't actually develop the game and all) you expect to be given more for what reason?

Why does Blizzard owe you this? They don't. They owe you nothing. Quite literally not a thing. You can have your game access revoked right now just because you look funny. If you think they owe you something then you're sorely mistaken.

Now would I like some of the proposed suggestions players have come up with? Yeah sure they're pretty sound and neat. But that's all they are. Suggestions. It's up to Blizzard if they want to read and implement your suggestion and if not then it's no skin off of their nose.

People should stop thinking that Blizzard owe them. If their games are shit and their game is absolute trash then we simply don't buy their shit. The second they see, for example, half the sales of HotS compared to WoL then they'll see 'ohh we fucked up somewhere along the lines' and then they'll try to rectify it. Right now though, they have a pretty solid player base. So pretty much, boycott their games if you don't like their business model, or if you don't feel like the game is worth it. Else just keep throwing suggestions in hopes that Blizzard will hear and that's fine, but don't act like you're entitled to anything.
http://www.youtube.com/user/sirmonkeh Zerg Live Casts and Commentary!
MonkSEA
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Australia1227 Posts
April 16 2012 04:10 GMT
#251
On April 16 2012 12:54 Chocobo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2012 12:50 Abort Retry Fail wrote:
You're asking too much. Your rank should reflect your overall skills, regardless of race.

I wish I could get people who respond like this to answer in more detail.

Why do you think it's OK for people to have to either 1) waste hours de-ranking to offrace, then rank up on their main race again or 2) never play more than 1 race? Why is this situation a better option than allowing people to learn all 3 races?

So many answers simply say "screw you, you want too much, you're greedy" and give no reasons for it. Or am I just letting myself be trolled?


Why de-rank yourself when you can just play and eventually get the hang of it? If you're demoted then that's fine you're obviously not as good with that race compared to your other race. I play terran and zerg and I'm perfectly fine sitting where I am. Granted my terran isn't as strong as my zerg but I still can beat other players in masters with both races because I actually took my time in leaguing to masters with zerg then race switching to terran to actually face players that were better then me so I could LEARN how to play it. Learning from losses is a lot easier then learning from wins so when you lose and lose and lose you can identify where you were going wrong and how to fix your issue you were having. Stop saying you waste hours of de-ranking when you have the option to play the game instead of just join and leave, because it's you who is wasting your own time.
http://www.youtube.com/user/sirmonkeh Zerg Live Casts and Commentary!
pileopoop
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada317 Posts
April 16 2012 04:11 GMT
#252
On April 16 2012 12:08 Capulet wrote:
It's not as simple as allowing one account to have 4 different MMRs, one for each race + random. I'm sure there are problems we are overlooking. For one thing, how would you account for GM league when a player like TLO can easily get GM with all 3 races?


I don't see your point if 5 people get top 20 GM then good for them its not like rank matters
danbel1005
Profile Joined February 2008
United States1319 Posts
April 16 2012 04:13 GMT
#253
On February 27 2012 06:03 VoO wrote:
I really see your point, and I agree but they won't change anything because it will cost money. Furthermore, you shouldn't be concerned about ladder. I've often switched between races and purposely lost 50 games in a row to be in an adequate ladder position.

Btw, I wouldn't recommend custom games if you want to switch, since almost nobody plays customs for real. I won against Master players when I offraced Zerg at Platinum level.


Mind sharing those replays?
"EE HAN TIMING" Jaedong vs Stork [22 December, 2007] 2set @ Finals EVER OSL.
mastergriggy
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1312 Posts
April 16 2012 04:15 GMT
#254
On February 27 2012 06:10 Mutown wrote:
Blizzard's response:

Show nested quote +
Hello Alex,

It is good to hear that you have made a post regarding this issue. At this point since customer service can not facilitate your request you will need to find fellow players who feel the same way. If you can get enough constructive feedback on this post it hopefully will catch the eye of our development team and get you a response.


I don't think that any amount of constructive feedback can get blizzard to change something that makes them more money or else we'd have LAN by now. I do agree with you and don't see why it would be such a big deal to just have multiple ladders for one account.
Write your own song!
Chvol
Profile Joined August 2010
United States200 Posts
April 16 2012 04:16 GMT
#255
One benefit is that it probably makes the overall population of players better. Battle.net knows what's in your best interest, and discourages you from practicing more than one race.
fengshaun
Profile Joined April 2012
149 Posts
April 16 2012 04:23 GMT
#256
I think if enough people complain about this and actually send feedbacks to blizzard, they will have to do something about it.
Chocobo
Profile Joined November 2006
United States1108 Posts
April 16 2012 04:24 GMT
#257
On April 16 2012 13:10 MonkSEA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2012 12:54 Chocobo wrote:
On April 16 2012 12:50 Abort Retry Fail wrote:
You're asking too much. Your rank should reflect your overall skills, regardless of race.

I wish I could get people who respond like this to answer in more detail.

Why do you think it's OK for people to have to either 1) waste hours de-ranking to offrace, then rank up on their main race again or 2) never play more than 1 race? Why is this situation a better option than allowing people to learn all 3 races?

So many answers simply say "screw you, you want too much, you're greedy" and give no reasons for it. Or am I just letting myself be trolled?


Why de-rank yourself when you can just play and eventually get the hang of it? If you're demoted then that's fine you're obviously not as good with that race compared to your other race. I play terran and zerg and I'm perfectly fine sitting where I am. Granted my terran isn't as strong as my zerg but I still can beat other players in masters with both races because I actually took my time in leaguing to masters with zerg then race switching to terran to actually face players that were better then me so I could LEARN how to play it. Learning from losses is a lot easier then learning from wins so when you lose and lose and lose you can identify where you were going wrong and how to fix your issue you were having. Stop saying you waste hours of de-ranking when you have the option to play the game instead of just join and leave, because it's you who is wasting your own time.

Standard anti-customer response. "Whatever you want is stupid, and your problems aren't important anyway".

Like I've already said, it's pointless for a platinum protoss to face a mid masters zerg who can shut down 4gates for free and will shove a 200 supply army down your throat at 12:00 if you try to macro up. There is no opportunity to learn and improve your game when against an opponent who is so far out of your league. This is precisely why the ladder matches up people of equal skill levels in the first place.

Playing out these hopeless games is a significantly larger waste of time than simply auto-leaving, and doesn't solve the problem of having to level back up when you go back to your main race either.

All of these problems can be easily solved by just allowing people to ladder with each race separately. No one on the "leave things alone" side seems to be able to explain why it's better to have a system that heavily discourages playing more than one race, instead of a system that allows it.

Every argument is just "stfu and deal with it", with the exception of the "but... um.. some broke people might share an account!" which is a pretty weak reason to leave things as is.
dgwow
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada1024 Posts
April 16 2012 04:37 GMT
#258
On February 27 2012 06:45 esotericc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2012 05:56 Spicy_Curry wrote:
the technology isnt there yet


Came here to post this, if people haven't realized yet I will make this extremely clear. Blizzard just simply doesn't care what you want, they like having the model that if you want a separate ladder ranking you need to buy the game again. Blizzard has little to no interest in catering to communities needs in battlenet.

I usually wouldn't be so pessimistic on the matter but this has been talked to death in a billion threads. Blizzard just simply isn't going to do it.


As much as I would agree with Blizzard being a profit-modeled organization right now, I don't think that many people purchase extra copies of starcraft just for a new ladder rank. Seems like a change that should be made. Like the Blizzard employee responded, there needs to be a large, concentrated and noticeable amount of feedback for change to be done.
Don't let those anti-cheese advocates tell you what to do. Rush to meet life head on!
probob
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany227 Posts
April 16 2012 04:48 GMT
#259
I support this idea. I was a diamond protoss since release, after 800 wins switched to Terran, just to change it up a bit and got demoted to platinum. Would have liked to keep my old rank for protoss and maybe try zerg too. Nobody at blizzard cares though
Ich bin ein Berliner
fengshaun
Profile Joined April 2012
149 Posts
April 16 2012 04:51 GMT
#260
On April 16 2012 13:37 dgwow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2012 06:45 esotericc wrote:
On February 27 2012 05:56 Spicy_Curry wrote:
the technology isnt there yet


Came here to post this, if people haven't realized yet I will make this extremely clear. Blizzard just simply doesn't care what you want, they like having the model that if you want a separate ladder ranking you need to buy the game again. Blizzard has little to no interest in catering to communities needs in battlenet.

I usually wouldn't be so pessimistic on the matter but this has been talked to death in a billion threads. Blizzard just simply isn't going to do it.


As much as I would agree with Blizzard being a profit-modeled organization right now, I don't think that many people purchase extra copies of starcraft just for a new ladder rank. Seems like a change that should be made. Like the Blizzard employee responded, there needs to be a large, concentrated and noticeable amount of feedback for change to be done.



^^^^ This!

I've just sent a feedback to Bliz. Why don't you guys take a few second and do it too? And you can refer to this thread!

I have also taken the time to make a petition for this. If you care about this issue, sign the petition so we have something to show Bliz:
http://www.change.org/petitions/blizzard-entertainment-starcraft-ii-add-separate-mmrs-placement-matches-for-different-1v1-races
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