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8751 Posts
On April 16 2012 15:52 TheMatrix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 10:23 Liquid`NonY wrote:
How is a natural solution unrealistic? Either it's not natural or it's not a solution. Your writing is very unclear there.
I don't understand why you make a point about buying three copies of the game. Just because owning multiple copies of a game yields some new benefit does not mean that that benefit is something that ought to be enjoyed by people owning one copy of that game. This seems incredibly obvious to me for multiplayer games and yet you point out that it's a multiplayer benefit as if that makes it more absurd. I think the more absurd thing would be an advantage to owning multiple copies of a game for offline or single player modes.
In World of Warcraft, owning one copy of the game allows you to make multiple characters but not play them simultaneously. There are good reasons for this that I believe most MMO players respect enough that they do not protest the extra costs. They accept that people owning multiple copies of the game can experience and do things that people owning one copy cannot. Are those activities and experiences part of the game?
The thing that is logically indefensible here is a definition of what it means to "get everything out of [the game]". Noting that some benefit is possible with multiple copies of the game and impossible without multiple copies of the game does not give much insight.
You bought SC2 with the expectation that Blizzard was going to continue to add new features and content to the game via free patches. You think this feature qualifies as something that Blizzard should patch in. Make an argument to convince them to patch it in. Making a hypothetical argument as to why they haven't done it yet and then calling it unfair bullshit gets you nowhere. That maneuver is ridiculous. You understand that the feature the OP requests was in each Blizzard games since 1993? SC2 that came out in 2010 didn't have the option to create multiple accounts or at least different ladder profiles for the different races. I mean heck, why even have win/loose stats then, why even have ladders? Why not remove everything that games 20 years older had and call it ubernet 9999.
Your post has nothing to do with mine. Don't quote my post just so more people will read yours. And if you don't know why b.net records stats and has ladders, just stop posting for a few years. These issues are way above your head.
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On April 16 2012 16:46 [F_]aths wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 16:36 freestalker wrote:
I see no point in implementing 3 separate ladders. If you lose 20 games to get down to your off-race ranking so be it, it's not like you fed one person with 20 games, it's 20 people with 1 game, that won't really boost up their ranks. People care too much about their rank, really.
Instead of 3 ladders all we need is a reset button. Easy scripting. If you want to experiment, just swallow your pride and know it'll cost something if you want to do it on ladder. A reset button would allow for easy smurfing: Reset your MMR, place bronze in placement and lose some more game, then crush the bronze players for your pleasure.
So what, when I bought my SC2 I placed to bronze on purpose and then went 20 wins until I finally lost to some diamond player. Are you going to sue me? Was it fun? Yes. Would I do it again? Possibly, but it'd be boring if I was doing it over and over. If you had an offrace ladder option you'd be owning bronze players just because of your mechanics.. what's the difference? those 20 games until your MMR gets calibrated? What a joke.
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i would dislike if i would have 3 different rankings for each race on 1 account. Would make playing random without random less fun.
Not everyone wants the same things, so you can't make everyone happy. And things like this get changed if the majority wants it. Not if 2% of the whole player base wants it
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If you wanna learn a race play custom games, it's rather easy. Or play FFA or something else unrated.
Plus it's not like ANYONE that is Master's League with ANY race will be something like Silver with another race.
At maximum they will be one league below, if they are low in their leagues (i.e. low Diamond Player would be Platinum).
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I don't understand. Is your ladder rank so important to you that you are unwilling to sacrifice it, even temporarily, to work towards becoming a better player? Does the 30 minutes it takes to leave games and tank your rating too much time? Sure, separate ranks for each race would be nice, but it is far from impossible to do it on your own.
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Play custom games if you are trying out a new race; that is what they are there for.
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On April 16 2012 23:27 RubiksCube wrote:
If you wanna learn a race play custom games, it's rather easy. Or play FFA or something else unrated.
Plus it's not like ANYONE that is Master's League with ANY race will be something like Silver with another race.
At maximum they will be one league below, if they are low in their leagues (i.e. low Diamond Player would be Platinum).
Not true. I was a rather high Master level toss, quit for a few months, came back trying terran having NEVER played it before, and placed in Gold. It didn't take more than a few days for me to reach Diamond level, and a week and a half later I'm Masters terran...but placing in Gold league from top masters is definitely a counterexample of your argument here.
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To the OP, what do you want? Having 3 ranks for 3 races is a terrible idea and allows for having one "real" account, and 2 smurf accounts.
However, I don't think Blizzard should use your current MMR when you switch race. If your MMR is 500, and you have only played one race, then Blizzard should track another MMR for the other races, which starts off lower, say 300, and this amount would be determined by a model of the drop in skill of an average player switching races.
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Up to masters, you mechanics will keep you to at the same ranking more or less. I learned Zerg as a diamond protoss player and could beat players my own level within 5 games.
Alternatively try learning through customs with friends etc?
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Would like to see three different mmr. I am master protoss and i would like to play once in a while zerg, but my zerg is max high platinum. I try to play 2v2 as a zerg but its just not enough practice. I tried to play 1v1 as zerg but after losing 25+ games in a row and still not having a chance in zvt or zvz so I gave up and played toss instead. And I dont have any friends that are active (play at least every week) at around plat/low dia level. And I dont want to search for active people that would play with me when I want to :/
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On April 16 2012 23:46 Alem wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 23:27 RubiksCube wrote:
If you wanna learn a race play custom games, it's rather easy. Or play FFA or something else unrated.
Plus it's not like ANYONE that is Master's League with ANY race will be something like Silver with another race.
At maximum they will be one league below, if they are low in their leagues (i.e. low Diamond Player would be Platinum). Not true. I was a rather high Master level toss, quit for a few months, came back trying terran having NEVER played it before, and placed in Gold. It didn't take more than a few days for me to reach Diamond level, and a week and a half later I'm Masters terran...but placing in Gold league from top masters is definitely a counterexample of your argument here.
Except you quit for a few months...If you came back playing protoss instead do you think you'd still be playing at masters level? You might not get demoted all the way to gold (or demoted at all considering the system), but you should notice that you aren't as good as you once were.
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I think this issue can be compared to (and forgive me, for all you LoL haters out there) the ranked and normal games in League of Legends. Comparing Ranked games with ladder and custom games with Normals. When you want to try a new race, Ideally, I think you should try it, in customs, with a friend. The same way you would try new champions and builds in normals, and not ranked. Now if you don't have a friend to practice with, I can see where problems can arise. Playing against the A.I. sometimes isn't good practice but if you really care that much about your ladder rank just do customs with the new race.
While I do agree that race based ladder could possibly work, if it doesn't get implemented, consider custom games a work around and just practice with your friend. Practice with your friend can even sometimes be better than just laddering.
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I understand the issue, the op is talking about.
Two weeks ago I switched to Random and got demoted to diamond pretty fast.
Because the skill gap between my races is that high, I win about all of my games as zerg and lose 3 out of 4 games as protoss.
So it is annoying for me and my opponents aswell, because I totally crush the mid diamond players I am paired with, if I am lucky with the race i get.
But I don't think the system needs a change, because for me it is way more fun to play against better enemies with my weakest race, even if I lose most of the games.
Additionally, from my point the system is pretty fast in responding to your skill. For example, if I'm on a Protoss streak, I have to face Low Diamonds/Plats and if I get Zerg often, I play vs High Diamond/Low Masters.
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To the people who are suggesting to play customs, have you ever tried the custom game system yourself?
One game a bronze player joins your game, the second a master, third bronze, etc. It's a complete disaster, your entire time is wasted and you learn nothing out of it.
The same way they gave 2 accounts in PTR, they can do it in your main region too. Just one of the many things they have messed up in Starcraft 2.
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On April 16 2012 23:46 Alem wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 23:27 RubiksCube wrote:
If you wanna learn a race play custom games, it's rather easy. Or play FFA or something else unrated.
Plus it's not like ANYONE that is Master's League with ANY race will be something like Silver with another race.
At maximum they will be one league below, if they are low in their leagues (i.e. low Diamond Player would be Platinum). Not true. I was a rather high Master level toss, quit for a few months, came back trying terran having NEVER played it before, and placed in Gold. It didn't take more than a few days for me to reach Diamond level, and a week and a half later I'm Masters terran...but placing in Gold league from top masters is definitely a counterexample of your argument here.
Actually its not a counterargument, because you werent gold level. Otherwise you wouldnt have been promoted in a couple of days. If anything your story is proof for my point as you were back to masters in about 2 weeks.
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On April 17 2012 00:59 MrLion wrote:
To the people who are suggesting to play customs, have you ever tried the custom game system yourself?
One game a bronze player joins your game, the second a master, third bronze, etc. It's a complete disaster, your entire time is wasted and you learn nothing out of it.
The same way they gave 2 accounts in PTR, they can do it in your main region too. Just one of the many things they have messed up in Starcraft 2.
They could also give you the game for free, but that doesn't mean they should.
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This exact topic was discussed and posted on both Team Liquid and the Bnet forums. There is even a poll on what people would prefer. No one seemed to care enough on battle.net about this feature to post anything beyond 4 replies.
Please check here:
Multiple 1v1 ranks and the future of the ladder
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On April 17 2012 00:59 MrLion wrote:
To the people who are suggesting to play customs, have you ever tried the custom game system yourself?
One game a bronze player joins your game, the second a master, third bronze, etc. It's a complete disaster, your entire time is wasted and you learn nothing out of it.
The same way they gave 2 accounts in PTR, they can do it in your main region too. Just one of the many things they have messed up in Starcraft 2.
That's exactly how i learned to play the other races. Nothing bad about playing against players of different skill levels and watching the replay afterwards.
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On February 27 2012 05:58 dAPhREAk wrote:
not enough competitive people switch races for such a ladder ranking system to be necessary.
People may not switch now, but for many the main reason they don't switch or even try out another race is because of the ranking situation. If there were a seperate ladder for each race, people would much more readily off-race, either for fun, for superior knowledge of that race, or to try out with the possibility of switching permanently.
Although I agree that such a system isn't necessary, it certainly would be beneficial to the game experience.
On April 16 2012 23:20 FeyFey wrote:
i would dislike if i would have 3 different rankings for each race on 1 account. Would make playing random without random less fun.
Not everyone wants the same things, so you can't make everyone happy. And things like this get changed if the majority wants it. Not if 2% of the whole player base wants it
Could you please explain to me how playing random without random would be less fun with seperate rankings.
Also, I would like to see the stats that show only 2% of the player base wants this.
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I would very much like to be able to playe the other races for fun. Now it is only possible in FFA's and team games.
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