Hi TL, I wanted to start a discussion about who are the hottest candidates for the code S seeds in the next GSL season. A discussion about possible benefits and drawbacks, as well as alternatives of the said seeding system should go here: link (note that the thread is misinformed though, because Koreans are also eligible for the seeds, see below.)
Who is eligible for the code S seeds and on what criteria are they handed out?
We have introduced our new format for the 2012 GSL Tour a while ago, which includes changes to the way international seeds are being given out. [...] In 2012 the GSL will have 2 Code S sponsor seeds. These seeds will be determined by outstanding results in international tournaments.
For your reminder, here are all the premier tournament (as of Liquipedia) that happened recently or are happening right now: MLG Winter Arena, Assembly Winter, IEM Sao Paolo, IEM Kiev, HomeStory Cup So who do you think is the hottest candidate for a code S seed and why?
Personally, I'm torn between either the two top non-code S finishers from MLG Winter Arena, or the top non-code S finisher from MLG Winter and the top non-code S finisher from Assembly. If the two non-code S players in MLG Winter manage to finish top 3, I'd say give them the seeds. Otherwise, I'd also be okay to give one to Polt who, even if the player pool of Assembly wasn't nearly as stacked as MLG, is the reining champion of Assembly.
Polt and Violet would be pretty good choices imo, but I doubt GOM will do two Koreans. Probably Violet (Winner of IEM Sao Paolo, potentially Arena) and either HuK or Nani (Both doing well in Arena).
As a whole Assembly wasn't as stacked as MLG Arena but Polt's run was harder than most people's run in MLG arena. Taking down TaeJa, HerO, Lucky, Stephano. Or rather destroying them.
On February 26 2012 20:29 Grovbolle wrote: To pull in some foreigner money I guess that Stephano for instance (2nd in ROG and lots of good performances) could be a candidate
And fan favorites like Ret (did well in WB in MLG, vs MVP and other great players)..
I think giving HuK a seed would be a bit anticlimax as he has just lost his.
As far as I know, Stephano isn't willing to return to korea.
HuK and Polt just lost Code A status and I doubt they would IMMEDIATELY seed them back in, maybe next season if he fails to requalify, Stephano and viOLet don't want it and NaNiwa is just plain unlikely...
IMO they should give seeds to EGPuMa and maaaaybe LiquidRet or Empire.Kas if they're willing but honestly there's no one worthy of a seed right now.
On February 26 2012 20:32 RPR_Tempest wrote: SEEDS ARE NOT JUST FOR FOREIGNERS
HuK just lost Code S status and I doubt they would IMMEDIATELY seed him back in, maybe next season if he fails to requalify, Stephano and viOLet don't want it and NaNiwa is just plain unlikely...
It can't be someone already in GSL. Seeds are to bring in new players. Polt is in Code A already and thus won't get one until a couple seasons after he drops out of Code A.
IMO they should give seeds to EGPuMa and maaaaybe LiquidRet if he's willing to return but honestly there's no one worthy of a seed right now.
DRG was code A when he got his code s seed and polit is in code B
On February 26 2012 20:27 Yaki wrote: As a whole Assembly wasn't as stacked as MLG Arena but Polt's run was harder than most people's run in MLG arena. Taking down TaeJa, HerO, Lucky, Stephano. Or rather destroying them.
Hm, that's actually quite a good point. You shouldn't only decide by player pool, but by the individual run. Or is it not? I mean, if a player pool is stacked, you might still be able to have an on-the-first-glance easy run. However in fact you might have beaten the terran that beat NesTea and the zerg that beat MVP, etc... Shouldn't that be acknowledged as well?
On February 26 2012 20:32 RPR_Tempest wrote: SEEDS ARE NOT JUST FOR FOREIGNERS
HuK just lost Code S status and I doubt they would IMMEDIATELY seed him back in, maybe next season if he fails to requalify, Stephano and viOLet don't want it and NaNiwa is just plain unlikely...
It can't be someone already in GSL. Seeds are to bring in new players. Polt is in Code A already and thus won't get one until a couple seasons after he drops out of Code A. It wouldn't make sense if he failed to make it to Code S through U/D matches and was seeded anyway. That's the problem with giving seeds to people already in GSL.
IMO they should give seeds to EGPuMa and maaaaybe LiquidRet if he's willing to return but honestly there's no one worthy of a seed right now.
Polt dropped out of Code B man. And Puma ??? There are people that deserve the seed much more than him lately, he's been disappointing.
On February 26 2012 20:32 RPR_Tempest wrote: SEEDS ARE NOT JUST FOR FOREIGNERS
HuK just lost Code S status and I doubt they would IMMEDIATELY seed him back in, maybe next season if he fails to requalify, Stephano and viOLet don't want it and NaNiwa is just plain unlikely...
It can't be someone already in GSL. Seeds are to bring in new players. Polt is in Code A already and thus won't get one until a couple seasons after he drops out of Code A. It wouldn't make sense if he failed to make it to Code S through U/D matches and was seeded anyway. That's the problem with giving seeds to people already in GSL.
IMO they should give seeds to EGPuMa and maaaaybe LiquidRet if he's willing to return but honestly there's no one worthy of a seed right now.
Polt dropped out of Code A man. And Puma ??? There are people that deserve the seed much more than him lately, he's been disappointing.
Fixed.
PuMa never got anything in GSL from his NASL 2 win. If they're willing to give DeMusliM a Code A/Up and Down seed from MLG results mid last year I don't see why they wouldn't reward PuMa for winning NASL 1 and 2...he didn't get a Blizz Cup invite from it.
On February 26 2012 20:40 VirgilSC2 wrote: I think ViOLet and Polt are the two biggest candidates right now, especially if ViOLet wins Winter Arena somehow.
I'm pretty sure viOLet wouldn't accept it. He's deliberately moved away from Korea.
On February 26 2012 20:32 RPR_Tempest wrote: SEEDS ARE NOT JUST FOR FOREIGNERS
HuK just lost Code S status and I doubt they would IMMEDIATELY seed him back in, maybe next season if he fails to requalify, Stephano and viOLet don't want it and NaNiwa is just plain unlikely...
It can't be someone already in GSL. Seeds are to bring in new players. Polt is in Code A already and thus won't get one until a couple seasons after he drops out of Code A. It wouldn't make sense if he failed to make it to Code S through U/D matches and was seeded anyway. That's the problem with giving seeds to people already in GSL.
IMO they should give seeds to EGPuMa and maaaaybe LiquidRet if he's willing to return but honestly there's no one worthy of a seed right now.
Polt dropped out of Code A man. And Puma ??? There are people that deserve the seed much more than him lately, he's been disappointing.
Fixed.
PuMa never got anything in GSL from his NASL 2 win. If they're willing to give DeMusliM a Code A/Up and Down seed from MLG results mid last year I don't see why they wouldn't reward PuMa for winning NASL 1 and 2...he didn't get a Blizz Cup invite from it.
A seed in the up/down and a seed in code s is very different .... Also they never said that they would give the winner of NASL 2 a spot in blizzcup
On February 26 2012 20:40 VirgilSC2 wrote: I think ViOLet and Polt are the two biggest candidates right now, especially if ViOLet wins Winter Arena somehow.
I agree with this also. The best foreigner we have are like HuK, Naniwa and Stephano. But like many others say Stephano don't want to go to Korea, and I don't think HuK or Naniwa should be given one really. Especially not HuK since he was just given one last GSL and lost it.
I hope Polt and someone else gets it, preferably Violet.
On February 26 2012 20:32 RPR_Tempest wrote: SEEDS ARE NOT JUST FOR FOREIGNERS
HuK just lost Code S status and I doubt they would IMMEDIATELY seed him back in, maybe next season if he fails to requalify, Stephano and viOLet don't want it and NaNiwa is just plain unlikely...
It can't be someone already in GSL. Seeds are to bring in new players. Polt is in Code A already and thus won't get one until a couple seasons after he drops out of Code A. It wouldn't make sense if he failed to make it to Code S through U/D matches and was seeded anyway. That's the problem with giving seeds to people already in GSL.
IMO they should give seeds to EGPuMa and maaaaybe LiquidRet if he's willing to return but honestly there's no one worthy of a seed right now.
Polt dropped out of Code A man. And Puma ??? There are people that deserve the seed much more than him lately, he's been disappointing.
Fixed.
PuMa never got anything in GSL from his NASL 2 win. If they're willing to give DeMusliM a Code A/Up and Down seed from MLG results mid last year I don't see why they wouldn't reward PuMa for winning NASL 1 and 2...he didn't get a Blizz Cup invite from it.
A seed in the up/down and a seed in code s is very different .... Also they never said that they would give the winner of NASL 2 a spot in blizzcup
I know, but NASL 2 was a BIIIG tournament, bigger than the IEM that gave DRG his Blizz Cup spot, so it seems odd that it was completely ignored by GSL.
In terms of results recently I'd say these people should get invited in to Code S (from top to bottom)
Polt viOlet HuK Stephano NaNiwa
viOlet / HuK positions may change depending on results tomorrow.
now, obviously Stephano won't accept an invite as he'd rather keep going to foreign tournaments and get easy money there. Then you're left with the discussion of should people who just got knocked out of GSL be seeded back in to it which is a bit of a tough one. Didn't mind it last year when MC got back in as the rules for MLG seeds weren't subjective but obviously this year they are. I think HuK is without doubt Code S material, regardless of what has happened to him recently and Polt basically losing everything for two weeks as he had flu was tough on him so those would be my choices.
But if people who just got knocked out of GSL shouldn't get invites then give them to viOlet and NaNiwa.
On February 26 2012 20:40 VirgilSC2 wrote: I think ViOLet and Polt are the two biggest candidates right now, especially if ViOLet wins Winter Arena somehow.
I agree with this also. The best foreigner we have are like HuK, Naniwa and Stephano. But like many others say Stephano don't want to go to Korea, and I don't think HuK or Naniwa should be given one really. Especially not HuK since he was just given one last GSL and lost it.
I hope Polt and someone else gets it, preferably Violet.
Huk was given code A seed a long time ago, he just dropped out of code S due to the hard format implemented in november(Dropping out in Ro16). And lost to keen in Ro16 code a and his up and down matches and then lost his first round this season
Stephano? the obvious and the only one with realistic chances imho, maybe he changed his opinion about korea... but i doubt it Kas? he did well lately except Assembly Sase,Grubby?
On February 26 2012 20:32 RPR_Tempest wrote: SEEDS ARE NOT JUST FOR FOREIGNERS
Source? I was pretty sure these "sponsor seeds" were meant to stimulate foreign fans` interest for GSL.
See the op. International does not mean world minus Korea.
I can't derive this from the op, in particular the GOM quote. "International seeds", and the first considered for the first season were Idra and Naniwa (who got replaced by Sen, because of probe rushing) -- all 3 of these are foreigners.
Anyway, assuming they mean foreigners, they should give it to Dimaga (2nd IEM, 7th HSC) and Ret (3rd IEM, Round 3 WB MLG) - if they require at least two top performances; or Huk and Stephano - if only one top performance suffices. /better make the last pair Huk and Naniwa, as Stephano is almost certain to refuse/
On February 26 2012 21:08 TheEconomist wrote: I don't get naniwa. Loses to lucky i think 2 code A's on the trot. Beats Nestea repeatedly... And Leenock for that matter
It's not that hard to get .You just watch the games. Lucky didn't do silly stupid bizarre cheeses. He played well and straight up and won.
On February 26 2012 20:40 VirgilSC2 wrote: I think ViOLet and Polt are the two biggest candidates right now, especially if ViOLet wins Winter Arena somehow.
I agree with this also. The best foreigner we have are like HuK, Naniwa and Stephano. But like many others say Stephano don't want to go to Korea, and I don't think HuK or Naniwa should be given one really. Especially not HuK since he was just given one last GSL and lost it.
I hope Polt and someone else gets it, preferably Violet.
Huk was given code A seed a long time ago, he just dropped out of code S due to the hard format implemented in november(Dropping out in Ro16). And lost to keen in Ro16 code a and his up and down matches and then lost his first round this season
Please people .... Polt lost in the Ro32 of GSL November finishing in 3rd place and thus dropping down to the Round 2 of Code A where he lost 0-2 against ForGG.
On February 26 2012 21:08 TheEconomist wrote: I don't get naniwa. Loses to lucky i think 2 code A's on the trot. Beats Nestea repeatedly... And Leenock for that matter
Seems like foreigners are not that good at preparing a couple weeks just for one match.
On February 26 2012 20:27 Yaki wrote: As a whole Assembly wasn't as stacked as MLG Arena but Polt's run was harder than most people's run in MLG arena. Taking down TaeJa, HerO, Lucky, Stephano. Or rather destroying them.
Hm, that's actually quite a good point. You shouldn't only decide by player pool, but by the individual run. Or is it not? I mean, if a player pool is stacked, you might still be able to have an on-the-first-glance easy run. However in fact you might have beaten the terran that beat NesTea and the zerg that beat MVP, etc... Shouldn't that be acknowledged as well?
acknowledged sure.
given a seed in the most prestigious difficult starcraft 2 tournament based on one good match?
Gom shouldn't be giving seeds in codeS in the first place. The number of foreign players that are able to compete at code S is too limited, and giving it to players that live in Korea is just weird and unfair for players that don't have the opportunity to go to foreign tournaments.
GOMTV talks about international seeds.. does that mean for international players, or based on international criteria?
Because if it is international players, Koreans like Polt can't get it Else I guess it should be decided between the top players of MLG and Assembly, though I'd personally prefer fanfavorites or foreigners over Koreans that jump between Code B-S anyways. (for the drama and entertainment and the growth of esports)
On February 26 2012 20:40 VirgilSC2 wrote: I think ViOLet and Polt are the two biggest candidates right now, especially if ViOLet wins Winter Arena somehow.
I agree with this also. The best foreigner we have are like HuK, Naniwa and Stephano. But like many others say Stephano don't want to go to Korea, and I don't think HuK or Naniwa should be given one really. Especially not HuK since he was just given one last GSL and lost it.
I hope Polt and someone else gets it, preferably Violet.
Huk was given code A seed a long time ago, he just dropped out of code S due to the hard format implemented in november(Dropping out in Ro16). And lost to keen in Ro16 code a and his up and down matches and then lost his first round this season
Please people .... Polt lost in the Ro32 of GSL November finishing in 3rd place and thus dropping down to the Round 2 of Code A where he lost 0-2 against ForGG.
I was reffering to the fact he said huk was given a Code A/S seed last season
On February 26 2012 21:16 Jetaap wrote: Gom shouldn't be giving seeds in codeS in the first place. The number of foreign players that are able to compete at code S is too limited, and giving it to players that live in Korea is just weird and unfair for players that don't have the opportunity to go to foreign tournaments.
?
look at how many koreans qualify for mlg and assembly... don't be rediculous.
the main reason foreigners can't compete in gsl is because they're out of their comfort zone when playing in korea, on the biggest stage. it must be incredibly intimidating.
the game is still largely luck based, especially in mirror matchups - you lose 1 game and drop to code A, then lose another couple of games and you're in code B... that's stupidly harsh. the top players should definitely have the opportunity to get seeded back into codeS.... it's happened for most of the best codeS players right now.
On February 26 2012 20:40 VirgilSC2 wrote: I think ViOLet and Polt are the two biggest candidates right now, especially if ViOLet wins Winter Arena somehow.
I agree with this also. The best foreigner we have are like HuK, Naniwa and Stephano. But like many others say Stephano don't want to go to Korea, and I don't think HuK or Naniwa should be given one really. Especially not HuK since he was just given one last GSL and lost it.
I hope Polt and someone else gets it, preferably Violet.
Huk was given code A seed a long time ago, he just dropped out of code S due to the hard format implemented in november(Dropping out in Ro16). And lost to keen in Ro16 code a and his up and down matches and then lost his first round this season
Please people .... Polt lost in the Ro32 of GSL November finishing in 3rd place and thus dropping down to the Round 2 of Code A where he lost 0-2 against ForGG.
I was reffering to the fact he said huk was given a Code A/S seed last season
On February 26 2012 21:16 Jetaap wrote: Gom shouldn't be giving seeds in codeS in the first place. The number of foreign players that are able to compete at code S is too limited, and giving it to players that live in Korea is just weird and unfair for players that don't have the opportunity to go to foreign tournaments.
?
look at how many koreans qualify for mlg and assembly... don't be rediculous.
the main reason foreigners can't compete in gsl is because they're out of their comfort zone when playing in korea, on the biggest stage. it must be incredibly intimidating.
no, the reason is that the koreans are just typically much better...
On February 26 2012 21:16 Jetaap wrote: Gom shouldn't be giving seeds in codeS in the first place. The number of foreign players that are able to compete at code S is too limited, and giving it to players that live in Korea is just weird and unfair for players that don't have the opportunity to go to foreign tournaments.
?
look at how many koreans qualify for mlg and assembly... don't be rediculous.
the main reason foreigners can't compete in gsl is because they're out of their comfort zone when playing in korea, on the biggest stage. it must be incredibly intimidating.
no, the reason is that the koreans are just typically much better...
they are typically much better - but huk, naniwa, ret, stephano etc are easily codeS players when they're at their best.
On February 26 2012 21:16 Jetaap wrote: Gom shouldn't be giving seeds in codeS in the first place. The number of foreign players that are able to compete at code S is too limited, and giving it to players that live in Korea is just weird and unfair for players that don't have the opportunity to go to foreign tournaments.
?
look at how many koreans qualify for mlg and assembly... don't be rediculous.
the main reason foreigners can't compete in gsl is because they're out of their comfort zone when playing in korea, on the biggest stage. it must be incredibly intimidating.
no, the reason is that the koreans are just typically much better...
they are typically much better - but huk, naniwa, ret, stephano etc are easily codeS players when they're at their best.
It's easy to say "when they are at their best". Huk got trashed by a code a zerg in the gsl this very season so I don't expect Gom to give him a code s seed immediately
1) COCA ! - Because he is code S caliber. - Because he did something stupid unintentionally - Because his punishment was given by his team, not by GOM, and so there's nothing wrong with rewarding him a seed to get him back. - Because there are likely less Zergs than other races. - Because I like him! (most important, of course)
2) Huk if he wins MLG, otherwise Polt.
... partly because I don't think Violet would take it.
On February 26 2012 21:16 Jetaap wrote: Gom shouldn't be giving seeds in codeS in the first place. The number of foreign players that are able to compete at code S is too limited, and giving it to players that live in Korea is just weird and unfair for players that don't have the opportunity to go to foreign tournaments.
?
look at how many koreans qualify for mlg and assembly... don't be rediculous.
the main reason foreigners can't compete in gsl is because they're out of their comfort zone when playing in korea, on the biggest stage. it must be incredibly intimidating.
no, the reason is that the koreans are just typically much better...
they are typically much better - but huk, naniwa, ret, stephano etc are easily codeS players when they're at their best.
It's easy to say "when they are at their best". Huk got trashed by a code a zerg in the gsl this very season so I don't expect Gom to give him a code s seed immediately
name a codeS player that has not been trashed by a code A player in the last 2-3 seasons... i bet there aren't too many.
On February 26 2012 21:16 Jetaap wrote: Gom shouldn't be giving seeds in codeS in the first place. The number of foreign players that are able to compete at code S is too limited, and giving it to players that live in Korea is just weird and unfair for players that don't have the opportunity to go to foreign tournaments.
?
look at how many koreans qualify for mlg and assembly... don't be rediculous.
the main reason foreigners can't compete in gsl is because they're out of their comfort zone when playing in korea, on the biggest stage. it must be incredibly intimidating.
the game is still largely luck based, especially in mirror matchups - you lose 1 game and drop to code A, then lose another couple of games and you're in code B... that's stupidly harsh. the top players should definitely have the opportunity to get seeded back into codeS.... it's happened for most of the best codeS players right now.
Uhm in Code S if u have to lose 2 BO3s before dropping to Code A unless u reach RO8. Lose in RO48 Code A(which is using BO3 format as well) u drop to Code B. Lose in RO32 & 24 and you go to the Up & Down and still have a chance to qualify for Code S. And they're still playing in booths, not too different from the ones they already tend to play in...
On February 26 2012 21:16 Jetaap wrote: Gom shouldn't be giving seeds in codeS in the first place. The number of foreign players that are able to compete at code S is too limited, and giving it to players that live in Korea is just weird and unfair for players that don't have the opportunity to go to foreign tournaments.
?
look at how many koreans qualify for mlg and assembly... don't be rediculous.
the main reason foreigners can't compete in gsl is because they're out of their comfort zone when playing in korea, on the biggest stage. it must be incredibly intimidating.
no, the reason is that the koreans are just typically much better...
they are typically much better - but huk, naniwa, ret, stephano etc are easily codeS players when they're at their best.
On February 26 2012 20:40 VirgilSC2 wrote: I think ViOLet and Polt are the two biggest candidates right now, especially if ViOLet wins Winter Arena somehow.
I agree with this also. The best foreigner we have are like HuK, Naniwa and Stephano. But like many others say Stephano don't want to go to Korea, and I don't think HuK or Naniwa should be given one really. Especially not HuK since he was just given one last GSL and lost it.
I hope Polt and someone else gets it, preferably Violet.
Huk was given code A seed a long time ago, he just dropped out of code S due to the hard format implemented in november(Dropping out in Ro16). And lost to keen in Ro16 code a and his up and down matches and then lost his first round this season
Please people .... Polt lost in the Ro32 of GSL November finishing in 3rd place and thus dropping down to the Round 2 of Code A where he lost 0-2 against ForGG.
I was reffering to the fact he said huk was given a Code A/S seed last season
Yes but you gave false facts
No i wasent GSL October Huk gets third in his group, no changes GSL November Huk gets Ro16 but dont advance, drops to Code A Code A november where he loses to keen, then in up and downs goes 1-3 and dont advance and stays in code A. Code A season 1 Huk loses first round and goes out. My facts are fine and huk did not recieve a Code A/S spot during this period
On February 26 2012 21:16 Jetaap wrote: Gom shouldn't be giving seeds in codeS in the first place. The number of foreign players that are able to compete at code S is too limited, and giving it to players that live in Korea is just weird and unfair for players that don't have the opportunity to go to foreign tournaments.
?
look at how many koreans qualify for mlg and assembly... don't be rediculous.
the main reason foreigners can't compete in gsl is because they're out of their comfort zone when playing in korea, on the biggest stage. it must be incredibly intimidating.
no, the reason is that the koreans are just typically much better...
they are typically much better - but huk, naniwa, ret, stephano etc are easily codeS players when they're at their best.
It's easy to say "when they are at their best". Huk got trashed by a code a zerg in the gsl this very season so I don't expect Gom to give him a code s seed immediately
name a codeS player that has not been trashed by a code A player in the last 2-3 seasons... i bet there aren't too many.
fully agree. There are enough GSLs per year, that giving away 2 seeds for foreigners that then get trashed is not big, especially as most koreans that they would give it to would get trashed as well... But for GOM it means a lot of money from people who specifically root for foreigners and there is the chance that one of those foreigners might become a solid Code S player.
Yet just giving it to a big fanfavorite like Polt or MKP would be great as well!
On February 26 2012 21:08 TheEconomist wrote: I don't get naniwa. Loses to lucky i think 2 code A's on the trot. Beats Nestea repeatedly... And Leenock for that matter
Lucky got several weeks to prepare for his match, Nestea like 15 minutes. Access to coaches and time to preperation are a usefull talent toi have ;p
We have 4 seeds. 2 Code S and 2 Up/Down Seeds + potentially a couple of Code A seeds if GOM chooses to use them.
Personal opinion for me is:
Code S: Polt, Violet Up/Down: Naniwa Huk, Puma.
Just remembered that Huk is doing better than Naniwa at the current MLG. Huk or Violet would be interchangeable as a Code S seed depending on who performs better tomorrow.
On February 26 2012 21:08 TheEconomist wrote: I don't get naniwa. Loses to lucky i think 2 code A's on the trot. Beats Nestea repeatedly... And Leenock for that matter
Lucky got several weeks to prepare for his match, Nestea like 15 minutes. Access to coaches and time to preperation are a usefull talent toi have ;p
And give Polt a spot pls, he played soo well
You realize naniwa was in the same situation as his opponents in both of those situations, right?
On February 26 2012 21:56 00Visor wrote: Is violet back in Korea and wants to play in GSL? I would give 1 korean spot and 1 foreigner.
Seat 1: Polt or violet Seat 2: Naniwa (he earned it before, Top8 MLG) or HuK (if he wins MLG)
(I don't listed Stephano because he wouldnt take one)
Naniwa didn't earn a spot in code s, he earned a spot for blizzcup
He would have "earned" a spot, if GSL didnt change the rules without noticing MLG. And he would have still gotten invited if that proberush would not have happened. So if if you want to say, technically he didnt earn one. But he had it.
Stephano should receive an invitation because of his results even if he refuses, he's obviously the most prolific player of the beginning of the year. Look at the top3 of Huk at the MLG, he could have a chance.
There shouldn't be free spots into Code S, but for discussions' sake, Polt and Naniwa. I bet Stephano already got an invitation and declined it. He left Korea pretty fast and didn't seem interested in GSL at all.
Just to comment on this again. I hate that there is no fixed way of getting a seed. Polt who (SPOILER!!!) won assembly may or may not get a seed. No one knows how may seeds, or what will they give seeds for or what nationalities are eligible for the seeds. This is just weird, unlike in the past when it was strictly said that only MLG winner or Top 3 if winner has code S will get the seed.
Anyway back on topic polt should get a seed and maybe Huk as he is the best non GSL candidate. I would also like it if they gave Code S to the code A guys that did well here and they do fail to requalify to code S like Oz, MKP or Ganzi.
P.S very sad that Nani did not do well enough to be in a good position to get a seed T.T
On February 26 2012 22:33 Bullet wrote: HUK should be a lock if he wins MLG: WA. imo
That's gonna be really hard. MKP just don't lose against protoss these days.
On the subject, i think Polt definitly should get one. He dropped to code B because he was sick when playing Creator. Otherwise he definitly is code S material.
On February 26 2012 22:20 Faust852 wrote: Stephano should receive an invitation because of his results even if he refuses, he's obviously the most prolific player of the beginning of the year. Look at the top3 of Huk at the MLG, he could have a chance.
And I want Polt to win the other seed.
yeah the could offer him but if he rejects they still need to give out another one or there will be an empty spot in code S.
Stephano (Assembly) Huk (MLG) Naniwa (MLG) Polt (Assembly) Demuslim (MLG) Violet (all last tournaments) Ret (MLG and others)
On February 26 2012 22:05 pdd wrote: We have 4 seeds. 2 Code S and 2 Up/Down Seeds + potentially a couple of Code A seeds if GOM chooses to use them.
Personal opinion for me is:
Code S: Polt, Violet Up/Down: Naniwa Huk, Puma.
Just remembered that Huk is doing better than Naniwa at the current MLG. Huk or Violet would be interchangeable as a Code S seed depending on who performs better tomorrow.
doing better is a harsh thing to say, he is longer in the tour yes, but after nestea leenock etc you cant say that naniwa was anyway bad
also i still think that naniwa and huk are way better then violet and shows it everytime
On February 26 2012 20:59 Swiv wrote: Violet really has impressed lately.
the foreigner... hm.
Stephano? the obvious and the only one with realistic chances imho, maybe he changed his opinion about korea... but i doubt it Kas? he did well lately except Assembly Sase,Grubby?
i see naniwa raping 2 of the top3 kor zergs in the world, huk beating every korean easy peasy to the final of WB, ret beating mvp and even grubby destroying losira and still some peple say "they have no realistic chances" etc ... is there any reason ? i mean calling kas ahead of naniwa and huk seems strange
On February 26 2012 22:26 NuclearJudas wrote: There shouldn't be free spots into Code S, but for discussions' sake, Polt and Naniwa. I bet Stephano already got an invitation and declined it. He left Korea pretty fast and didn't seem interested in GSL at all.
there shouldn't be war or starving children, but there are, as there are Code S seed. If you dont like them, complain at GOM, not at TL
Would be ridiculous if Polt received a seed only days after losing and dropping to Code B. No matter he's performance in the past or at ROG. He should either have to fight trough the prelims or continue winning premier international events. Right now I see no reason to give out Code S seeds especially when everyone that gets on gets demolished, should give out Code A seeds if anything at all or into the Up & Down matches.
Unfortunately this is where things become tricky when we're given a vague guideline as to how to achieve an international seed into the GSL with so many foreign tournaments and progamers winning each tournament. And from a business point of view, it makes total sense to invite foreigners over Koreans who won whichever tournament they played in.
Polt, his run through Assembly was harder than most Code A matches. Violet, no. He didn't stand a chance against Marineking. Naniwa, amazing games against Nestea & Leenock. He was only banned for one season so its possible. Would be justified. Huk, haven't saw the games. Can't tell.
On February 26 2012 22:54 Hetairoi wrote: Would be ridiculous if Polt received a seed only days after losing and dropping to Code B. No matter he's performance in the past or at ROG. He should either have to fight trough the prelims or continue winning premier international events. Right now I see no reason to give out Code S seeds especially when everyone that gets on gets demolished, should give out Code A seeds if anything at all or into the Up & Down matches.
Then what's the point of giving out the Code S seeds? If he can leave Korea and tear face, even among other Koreans, he should inherit the spot that would otherwise be given to a foreigner. Polt won the ST, and he just won Winter Assembly...in convincing fashion. He is honestly first in line IMHO.
As far as a second seed goes, Stephano already said he doesn't like Korea, and he'd much rather do his own thing his own way in his own comfort zone instead of holed up in a house full of Korean dudes, when probably no one speaks English, let alone French...
I'd give the second to HuK or Nani as they're both already in Korea, and seeing how HuK's already made a deep-run bypassing huge talent in such a way that makes him look levels above the rest. I say HuK for #2.
Polt/Naniwa for Code S. Put Puma and Huk in the up and downs imo. Polt's run through the bracket at Assembly was through all potentially code S players. Taeja (soon to be Code s imo), Hero (good chance at code S upper code A), Lucky (code s this season), and then Stephano (very strong player who managed 2-2 at blizzard cup)
On February 26 2012 22:54 Hetairoi wrote: Would be ridiculous if Polt received a seed only days after losing and dropping to Code B. No matter he's performance in the past or at ROG. He should either have to fight trough the prelims or continue winning premier international events. Right now I see no reason to give out Code S seeds especially when everyone that gets on gets demolished, should give out Code A seeds if anything at all or into the Up & Down matches.
To be fair to Polt, he'd been rather ill before the GSTL and his Code A games.
He went through three Code A players (several with code s experience) and the best foreign player to win assembly, I'd say that should be more than enough to have him at least be considered. Got to remember that players like MMA/DRG/MC have all relied on a foreign tournament Code S seed to get their GSL position to where it is at the moment.
Stop making foreign events easier qualifiers for the GSL please. No seeds, I don't care if they're given to Koreans or foreigners, either way I don't want them. If these players are so great they can qualify like everyone else. In fact, if they stop giving out seeds there will even be more places to qualify for in code A!
I guess now with the new format you really "give" a code S card, cos everyone kinda needs it, considiring that only 8 players manage to stay in the code S. I say DON'T give foriegners code S\A, look at the last resolts by the foriegners.... almost everyone of them lost all their games.
On February 26 2012 20:27 Yaki wrote: As a whole Assembly wasn't as stacked as MLG Arena but Polt's run was harder than most people's run in MLG arena. Taking down TaeJa, HerO, Lucky, Stephano. Or rather destroying them.
Code S should be considered for Polt. Heck MC got back into Code S and almost made it to the semifinals. That seed just might swing moment back into his favor.
The second seed is much more difficult to decide. I would have preferred that it go to Stephano but i highly doubt that he would take it. Maybe if Millienum was invited into the GSTL, he would finally accept going to the main tournament.
The second seed should be easier to decide after up and downs Forgot that the new format starts the GSL with the up and down matches
I think the seed should be given to Violet. His run in MLG, 4th at HSC IV and his win at IEM Sao Paulo. On top of that, compared with he rest of the players still in MLG, violet has not been in the GSL since his elimination back in august 2011.
Violet if he would take it is a pretty good choice. He placed 4th at HSC4, won an IEM and can't do worse than 6th in the arena. If you add in the fact that he placed 1st in the qualifiers to get to HSC and the winter area it's easy to see that he's been pretty consistent lately.
MKP placed 4th in the korean qualifier for the arena and now can't do worse than third at the arena itself. He also placed 5th at HSC4 . * IDK if you can count his 2nd place in the FXOinvitational since there were only a handful of foreign players there. He just fell to code A and has a reasonable shot of making it back to code S anyways but I don't know how much they take that into consideration.
Polt won assembly winter, an ipl4 qualifier and some other smaller stuff lately.
While a lot of foreigners have had some pretty surprising and impressive runs lately I don't think any of them ( who would be willing to go) have been as consistent in placing well. Nani has a top 8 finish at an IEM and one for the winter Arena. Feast has 2 top 8 IEM finishes Ret went out first round of HSC4, placed 3rd at an Iem and finished top 12 in the arena. Demuslim has an IEM top8 and winter arena top 12. Huk can't do worse than 3rd in the Arena now but hasn't been to any other events this year. If he wins though I can still see him getting a spot.
I Really think Polt deserves a spot. you shouldn't say "oh but he just lost on code A so not fair", or anything like that. Remember MC, he fell into code B and got second place on MLG orlando losing to HuK, and he regained his code S spot. Polt has won ASUS ROG just now, beating a bunch of good players. IMO He totally deserves a code S spot.
The other spot should probably go to viOlet, HuK or Naniwa. viOlet has shown a really good performance on the foreing scene lately, he won an IEM, and he's really good.
HuK hasn't been doing well on GSL, but he's showing everyone one MLG Arena that he can still be beating some good players.
And about NaNiwa... well I really haven't seen that much of him, but his run through providence still impresses me, he beated some really good players, and this MLG Arena he showed us that he can still beat NesTea and also get his revenge on Leenock.
On February 26 2012 20:21 JustPassingBy wrote: Spoiler: discussion might contain recent tournament results!
Hi TL, I wanted to start a discussion about who are the hottest candidates for the code S seeds in the next GSL season. A discussion about possible benefits and drawbacks, as well as alternatives of the said seeding system should go here: link (note that the thread is misinformed though, because Koreans are also eligible for the seeds, see below.)
Who is eligible for the code S seeds and on what criteria are they handed out?
We have introduced our new format for the 2012 GSL Tour a while ago, which includes changes to the way international seeds are being given out. [...] In 2012 the GSL will have 2 Code S sponsor seeds. These seeds will be determined by outstanding results in international tournaments.
For your reminder, here are all the premier tournament (as of Liquipedia) that happened recently or are happening right now: MLG Winter Arena, Assembly Winter, IEM Sao Paolo, IEM Kiev, HomeStory Cup So who do you think is the hottest candidate for a code S seed and why?
Personally, I'm torn between either the two top non-code S finishers from MLG Winter Arena, or the top non-code S finisher from MLG Winter and the top non-code S finisher from Assembly. If the two non-code S players in MLG Winter manage to finish top 3, I'd say give them the seeds. Otherwise, I'd also be okay to give one to Polt who, even if the player pool of Assembly wasn't nearly as stacked as MLG, is the reining champion of Assembly.
No one except Stephano. Simple as that.
Their success is more due to their foreign tournament experience (ability to deal with jetlag, pressure, different conditions than in GSL...) than a sudden and dramatic increase of skill.
Polt is a great choice but not only because of winning Assembly. He has a huge presence in the foreign scene. There are tons of little tournaments that he has won or placed high in. Unlike most Korean players, he is actually visible in the foreign scene itself. Also, he had a huge showing at MLG Orlando. Except that he lost to Puma...
Which leads to the second choice: Puma. Besides winning two NASLs, he also get second at Dreamhack and is also very well known in the foreign scene. He has had repeated great showings at MLG, knocking out notables like Bomber and Losira. he has DRG luck in Code B but has demonstrated that he can go toe-to-toe with anyone in the scene. TvZ is his worst MU but can still beat Losiras and DRGs of this world. And then there are the IEM medals. It's time to see what Puma can do in a GSL match.
If Huk wins MLG, he has a good claim but that's his only great achievement after the tournaments which he won for his last seed. (I might be confused about this history, though). If we look at recent history as a whole, though(as we should), naturally Huk comes out way ahead of even Polt. Probably not ahead of Puma, though.
Naniwa also hasn't done all that much after his last seed was given. He might have beat Nestea and Leenock, but still went out quite early in the Winter Arena. As Demuslim also beat Nestea, the Nestea card has diluted somewhat. But more importantly, Naniwa has not won a tournament recently.
I don't want to compare Stephano's accomplishments because fanboys would eat me up, so I'll just say that the question is moot because he has publicly announced he does not want an invite.
Violet is an interesting choice, but he still only has one small tournament with only one Korean. He is promising and I hope he will win some more tournaments to solidify his claim.
On February 26 2012 20:40 VirgilSC2 wrote: I think ViOLet and Polt are the two biggest candidates right now, especially if ViOLet wins Winter Arena somehow.
I agree with this also. The best foreigner we have are like HuK, Naniwa and Stephano. But like many others say Stephano don't want to go to Korea, and I don't think HuK or Naniwa should be given one really. Especially not HuK since he was just given one last GSL and lost it.
I hope Polt and someone else gets it, preferably Violet.
Huk has never been given a Code S seed. He was given a Code A seed in GSL March 2011, and he qualified for Code S that tournament. In May he went 0-2 in his group, but survived up/down. He then stayed in Code S until he was knocked down to Code A in second group stage of November, didn't make it through up/down, and was then knocked out of Code A this GSL.
Sen and Idra were given Code S seeds this season, where Idra went right out and Sen stayed in for the upcoming up/down matches. While it might be weird to put Huk right into Code S again after he went out completely, that's almost what happened to MMA. He were two seasons in Code A, got knocked out, and went right into Code S from an MLG win.
On February 26 2012 22:42 CoR wrote: in order of impression beginnin with the best one
Stephano (Assembly) Huk (MLG) Naniwa (MLG) Polt (Assembly) Demuslim (MLG) Violet (all last tournaments) Ret (MLG and others)
I like your picks but I'm confused as to how you could have a better impression of Stephano than Polt from Assembly when Polt not only beat Stephano 4-1, he had a much more difficult path to the finals?
Polt, HuK, Idra, Sen and other guys that just dropped from Code A this season shouldn't get a code S seed. You ask why? If their skill level is not high enough to at least stay in code A, there is no reason in giving them code S seed.
If I had to make the decision, I would give seeds to Stephano and Naniwa as they are currently the best on foreign scene. If they give up their seeds, next in line are DeMuslim and Ret (finished in the same round of MLG Arena). Also, if PartinG, MKP or Oz fail to qualify to code S (which 99% won't happen) should be given seeds basing on their performance in MLG Arena before DeMu or Ret.
Stephano is really the only person right now who should get a seed. Obviously, he won't take it though (tbh, I wouldn't ve surprised to learn he was offered one of the seeds from this current season).
Its kinda hard right now because there is so few tournaments ATM to consider. It's probably going to be Huk and Polt or Naniwa. The argument that they don't deserve them because they just fell out is really bad. The fact they just failed in GSL doesn't even matter because it's not what the seeds are being based off of. Using that fact to say that they won't be competitive, and thus undeserving, is stupid. If that's the case, then no seeds should be given out, because there's really no one right now outside of Code S who would realistically be in the discussion to win it.
There is no way that stephano takes code s march seed, just look at the events he is going to: IPL showmatch (beggining of march), Lonestar tournament (middle of march), and probably mlg columbus after that.
On February 26 2012 23:59 Zeetox wrote: Polt, HuK, Idra, Sen and other guys that just dropped from Code A this season shouldn't get a code S seed. You ask why? If their skill level is not high enough to at least stay in code A, there is no reason in giving them code S seed.
If I had to make the decision, I would give seeds to Stephano and Naniwa as they are currently the best on foreign scene. If they give up their seeds, next in line are DeMuslim and Ret (finished in the same round of MLG Arena). Also, if PartinG, MKP or Oz fail to qualify to code S (which 99% won't happen) should be given seeds basing on their performance in MLG Arena before DeMu or Ret.
MMA and MC both got code S seeds the season after they fell to code B. MMA has now won a GSL and the Blizzard cup. Both he and MC advanced out of the first round of Code S the season they came back to Code S after falling to code B. Who's not to say the players they lost to are Code S quality players? Polt lost to Creator who many believe has one of the best PvTs in the world. How is that much different than MMA losing to puzzle and falling to code B but people felt fine when he got a Code S seed the next season? It only takes 1 bad day to fall out of code A, but I think a player like Polt has shown that he still has what it takes to be a top player
HuK doesn't deserve it. He got eliminated from Code A and is, as much as I respect him, only in the Winter Arena because he's had to play exactly 1 Korean so far (and it was PvP). HuK seems to get exceptionally lucky in the bracket seeding. Orlando was the same way, although he did eventually have to play some tough matches.
For me, Polt should clearly get a seed (for obvious reasons).
The other one I think should go to Huk, but only if he gets to the finals of MLG. Thats because he got the easiest part of the bracket at MLG (even though I didn't watch his games, so I don't know how well he has been playing). And I think Naniwa, Stephano, viOLet and Ret should also be considered.
On February 26 2012 20:21 JustPassingBy wrote: Spoiler: discussion might contain recent tournament results!
Hi TL, I wanted to start a discussion about who are the hottest candidates for the code S seeds in the next GSL season. A discussion about possible benefits and drawbacks, as well as alternatives of the said seeding system should go here: link (note that the thread is misinformed though, because Koreans are also eligible for the seeds, see below.)
Who is eligible for the code S seeds and on what criteria are they handed out?
We have introduced our new format for the 2012 GSL Tour a while ago, which includes changes to the way international seeds are being given out. [...] In 2012 the GSL will have 2 Code S sponsor seeds. These seeds will be determined by outstanding results in international tournaments.
For your reminder, here are all the premier tournament (as of Liquipedia) that happened recently or are happening right now: MLG Winter Arena, Assembly Winter, IEM Sao Paolo, IEM Kiev, HomeStory Cup So who do you think is the hottest candidate for a code S seed and why?
Personally, I'm torn between either the two top non-code S finishers from MLG Winter Arena, or the top non-code S finisher from MLG Winter and the top non-code S finisher from Assembly. If the two non-code S players in MLG Winter manage to finish top 3, I'd say give them the seeds. Otherwise, I'd also be okay to give one to Polt who, even if the player pool of Assembly wasn't nearly as stacked as MLG, is the reining champion of Assembly.
No one except Stephano. Simple as that.
Their success is more due to their foreign tournament experience (ability to deal with jetlag, pressure, different conditions than in GSL...) than a sudden and dramatic increase of skill.
" No one except Stephano "
*Sees user is from France*
I don't usually make posts like this but I just cannot believe how biased you are, it's sickening.
Polt beat him in the finals 4-1 but he does not deserve a seed " because he deals with jetlag and pressure well, and the conditions are different than in the GSL. " ( Which he WON a championship in )
On February 26 2012 20:21 JustPassingBy wrote: Spoiler: discussion might contain recent tournament results!
Hi TL, I wanted to start a discussion about who are the hottest candidates for the code S seeds in the next GSL season. A discussion about possible benefits and drawbacks, as well as alternatives of the said seeding system should go here: link (note that the thread is misinformed though, because Koreans are also eligible for the seeds, see below.)
Who is eligible for the code S seeds and on what criteria are they handed out?
We have introduced our new format for the 2012 GSL Tour a while ago, which includes changes to the way international seeds are being given out. [...] In 2012 the GSL will have 2 Code S sponsor seeds. These seeds will be determined by outstanding results in international tournaments.
For your reminder, here are all the premier tournament (as of Liquipedia) that happened recently or are happening right now: MLG Winter Arena, Assembly Winter, IEM Sao Paolo, IEM Kiev, HomeStory Cup So who do you think is the hottest candidate for a code S seed and why?
Personally, I'm torn between either the two top non-code S finishers from MLG Winter Arena, or the top non-code S finisher from MLG Winter and the top non-code S finisher from Assembly. If the two non-code S players in MLG Winter manage to finish top 3, I'd say give them the seeds. Otherwise, I'd also be okay to give one to Polt who, even if the player pool of Assembly wasn't nearly as stacked as MLG, is the reining champion of Assembly.
No one except Stephano. Simple as that.
Their success is more due to their foreign tournament experience (ability to deal with jetlag, pressure, different conditions than in GSL...) than a sudden and dramatic increase of skill.
" No one except Stephano "
*Sees user is from France*
I don't usually make posts like this but I just cannot believe how biased you are, it's sickening.
Polt beat him in the finals 4-1 but he does not deserve a seed " because he deals with jetlag and pressure well, and the conditions are different than in the GSL. " ( Which he WON a championship in )
Fanboy logic is just stunning sometimes.
Sorry, one of my premise was : * assuming that no-seeds will be given to any Korean*.
On February 26 2012 22:42 CoR wrote: in order of impression beginnin with the best one
Stephano (Assembly) Huk (MLG) Naniwa (MLG) Polt (Assembly) Demuslim (MLG) Violet (all last tournaments) Ret (MLG and others)
I like your picks but I'm confused as to how you could have a better impression of Stephano than Polt from Assembly when Polt not only beat Stephano 4-1, he had a much more difficult path to the finals?
On February 26 2012 20:21 JustPassingBy wrote: Spoiler: discussion might contain recent tournament results!
Hi TL, I wanted to start a discussion about who are the hottest candidates for the code S seeds in the next GSL season. A discussion about possible benefits and drawbacks, as well as alternatives of the said seeding system should go here: link (note that the thread is misinformed though, because Koreans are also eligible for the seeds, see below.)
Who is eligible for the code S seeds and on what criteria are they handed out?
We have introduced our new format for the 2012 GSL Tour a while ago, which includes changes to the way international seeds are being given out. [...] In 2012 the GSL will have 2 Code S sponsor seeds. These seeds will be determined by outstanding results in international tournaments.
For your reminder, here are all the premier tournament (as of Liquipedia) that happened recently or are happening right now: MLG Winter Arena, Assembly Winter, IEM Sao Paolo, IEM Kiev, HomeStory Cup So who do you think is the hottest candidate for a code S seed and why?
Personally, I'm torn between either the two top non-code S finishers from MLG Winter Arena, or the top non-code S finisher from MLG Winter and the top non-code S finisher from Assembly. If the two non-code S players in MLG Winter manage to finish top 3, I'd say give them the seeds. Otherwise, I'd also be okay to give one to Polt who, even if the player pool of Assembly wasn't nearly as stacked as MLG, is the reining champion of Assembly.
No one except Stephano. Simple as that.
Their success is more due to their foreign tournament experience (ability to deal with jetlag, pressure, different conditions than in GSL...) than a sudden and dramatic increase of skill.
" No one except Stephano "
*Sees user is from France*
I don't usually make posts like this but I just cannot believe how biased you are, it's sickening.
Polt beat him in the finals 4-1 but he does not deserve a seed " because he deals with jetlag and pressure well, and the conditions are different than in the GSL. " ( Which he WON a championship in )
Fanboy logic is just stunning sometimes.
Sorry, one of my premise was : * assuming that no-seeds will be given to any Korean*.
That is changed, its just based in international results now
On February 26 2012 20:21 JustPassingBy wrote: Spoiler: discussion might contain recent tournament results!
Hi TL, I wanted to start a discussion about who are the hottest candidates for the code S seeds in the next GSL season. A discussion about possible benefits and drawbacks, as well as alternatives of the said seeding system should go here: link (note that the thread is misinformed though, because Koreans are also eligible for the seeds, see below.)
Who is eligible for the code S seeds and on what criteria are they handed out?
We have introduced our new format for the 2012 GSL Tour a while ago, which includes changes to the way international seeds are being given out. [...] In 2012 the GSL will have 2 Code S sponsor seeds. These seeds will be determined by outstanding results in international tournaments.
For your reminder, here are all the premier tournament (as of Liquipedia) that happened recently or are happening right now: MLG Winter Arena, Assembly Winter, IEM Sao Paolo, IEM Kiev, HomeStory Cup So who do you think is the hottest candidate for a code S seed and why?
Personally, I'm torn between either the two top non-code S finishers from MLG Winter Arena, or the top non-code S finisher from MLG Winter and the top non-code S finisher from Assembly. If the two non-code S players in MLG Winter manage to finish top 3, I'd say give them the seeds. Otherwise, I'd also be okay to give one to Polt who, even if the player pool of Assembly wasn't nearly as stacked as MLG, is the reining champion of Assembly.
No one except Stephano. Simple as that.
Their success is more due to their foreign tournament experience (ability to deal with jetlag, pressure, different conditions than in GSL...) than a sudden and dramatic increase of skill.
" No one except Stephano "
*Sees user is from France*
I don't usually make posts like this but I just cannot believe how biased you are, it's sickening.
Polt beat him in the finals 4-1 but he does not deserve a seed " because he deals with jetlag and pressure well, and the conditions are different than in the GSL. " ( Which he WON a championship in )
Fanboy logic is just stunning sometimes.
Sorry, one of my premise was : * assuming that no-seeds will be given to any Korean*.
[I know I'll regret getting into this but...] Even by excluding Koreans you are in trouble. Naniwa and Huk have much bigger tournament wins than Stephano, and they have consistently beaten Code S players in BoX in elimination rounds. Hell, even Idra in his slump has a better claim to the seed thanks to consistent big MLG wins against good players, even if I would not advocate for anyone to give him a seed at the moment. So an argument that no-one else deserves a seed is still bigoted, objectively false and quite literally sickening.
On February 26 2012 22:42 CoR wrote: in order of impression beginnin with the best one
Stephano (Assembly) Huk (MLG) Naniwa (MLG) Polt (Assembly) Demuslim (MLG) Violet (all last tournaments) Ret (MLG and others)
I like your picks but I'm confused as to how you could have a better impression of Stephano than Polt from Assembly when Polt not only beat Stephano 4-1, he had a much more difficult path to the finals?
How is Huk above Naniwa.
Well, the only way to put Huk above Naniwa is to make the argument that Naniwa hasn't played that many matches recently, there's a lot of games against Nestea and he only won one invitational in this time. At the same time Huk did recently win MLG Orlando on top of his previous accomplishments. But I guess this guy meant that Huk is doing much better than Naniwa in the winter arena.
Polt deserves one for sure. His results at ROG were impressive, but seeing him play was even more. He's so much better than like 80% of the current code S terrans it's not even funny.
The other one is more difficult, but all things considered, I'd give it to Naniwa for his great run at MLG Arena and for the code S seed he was robbed of after his runner-up finish at Providence. He deserves a shot at code S and it would kinda compensate for gom's mistake towards him.
Violet, Stephano, Polt (maybe Puma just for consistency?) and if HuK can get top4 at MLG, then him too, all are worthy shouts for the seed. I wonder whether GOM will value Assembly as much as MLG, even though Polt's run was absolutely incredible (Taeja, Hero, Lucky, Stephano), as good, if not better that a couple of the MLG runs. EDIT: It looks like HuK has already managed top 4, then he definitely would have a good case for the Code S seed.
Polt didn't just win Assembly Winter, he looked incredible doing it.
I think Polt really deserves a Code S seed.
Other than him, I think the winner or runner up of MLG Winter Arena should be considered as well, assuming they aren't already Code S. If MLG Winter Championship occurs before GSL 2012 Season 2, then I'd say pick that winner instead of the Winter Arena winner.
GOM will want a foreigner, but ideally one that won't just get thrashed into Code B immediately like Idra. Huk is basically guaranteed the Code S seed if he wins MLG since he's been the strongest foreigner in GSL in recent times and is living in Korea already.
I would say Polt and Naniwa, although I fear that Naniwa will just be cheesed out of the tournament (and rightfully so if he doesn't adapt his early game strategies). Polt had an amazing run at Assembly and Naniwa was much more impressive than Huk or any other foreigner so far.
On February 26 2012 20:21 JustPassingBy wrote: Spoiler: discussion might contain recent tournament results!
Hi TL, I wanted to start a discussion about who are the hottest candidates for the code S seeds in the next GSL season. A discussion about possible benefits and drawbacks, as well as alternatives of the said seeding system should go here: link (note that the thread is misinformed though, because Koreans are also eligible for the seeds, see below.)
Who is eligible for the code S seeds and on what criteria are they handed out?
We have introduced our new format for the 2012 GSL Tour a while ago, which includes changes to the way international seeds are being given out. [...] In 2012 the GSL will have 2 Code S sponsor seeds. These seeds will be determined by outstanding results in international tournaments.
For your reminder, here are all the premier tournament (as of Liquipedia) that happened recently or are happening right now: MLG Winter Arena, Assembly Winter, IEM Sao Paolo, IEM Kiev, HomeStory Cup So who do you think is the hottest candidate for a code S seed and why?
Personally, I'm torn between either the two top non-code S finishers from MLG Winter Arena, or the top non-code S finisher from MLG Winter and the top non-code S finisher from Assembly. If the two non-code S players in MLG Winter manage to finish top 3, I'd say give them the seeds. Otherwise, I'd also be okay to give one to Polt who, even if the player pool of Assembly wasn't nearly as stacked as MLG, is the reining champion of Assembly.
No one except Stephano. Simple as that.
Their success is more due to their foreign tournament experience (ability to deal with jetlag, pressure, different conditions than in GSL...) than a sudden and dramatic increase of skill.
" No one except Stephano "
*Sees user is from France*
I don't usually make posts like this but I just cannot believe how biased you are, it's sickening.
Polt beat him in the finals 4-1 but he does not deserve a seed " because he deals with jetlag and pressure well, and the conditions are different than in the GSL. " ( Which he WON a championship in )
Fanboy logic is just stunning sometimes.
Sorry, one of my premise was : * assuming that no-seeds will be given to any Korean*.
[I know I'll regret getting into this but...] Even by excluding Koreans you are in trouble. Naniwa and Huk have much bigger tournament wins than Stephano, and they have consistently beaten Code S players in BoX in elimination rounds. Hell, even Idra in his slump has a better claim to the seed thanks to consistent big MLG wins against good players, even if I would not advocate for anyone to give him a seed at the moment. So an argument that no-one else deserves a seed is still bigoted, objectively false and quite literally sickening.
This is an awful post...Naniwa won't get the seed, especially after what he did in Blizzard Cup.Besides, how is his tournament win bigger than Stephano's? His only noticeable feat was MLG providence but he didn't even win it... Huk is obviously a good contender but he's been pretty inconsistent recently. And yeah comparing Idra who lost pretty much every game he played recently to Stephano is really smart....
I would vote for goody (just for his opening versus zerg), but yeah they will probably take atleast one foreigner again. Or a korean in a foreign team. I mean an EG player means alot of viewers as an example.
On February 26 2012 20:21 JustPassingBy wrote: Spoiler: discussion might contain recent tournament results!
Hi TL, I wanted to start a discussion about who are the hottest candidates for the code S seeds in the next GSL season. A discussion about possible benefits and drawbacks, as well as alternatives of the said seeding system should go here: link (note that the thread is misinformed though, because Koreans are also eligible for the seeds, see below.)
Who is eligible for the code S seeds and on what criteria are they handed out?
We have introduced our new format for the 2012 GSL Tour a while ago, which includes changes to the way international seeds are being given out. [...] In 2012 the GSL will have 2 Code S sponsor seeds. These seeds will be determined by outstanding results in international tournaments.
For your reminder, here are all the premier tournament (as of Liquipedia) that happened recently or are happening right now: MLG Winter Arena, Assembly Winter, IEM Sao Paolo, IEM Kiev, HomeStory Cup So who do you think is the hottest candidate for a code S seed and why?
Personally, I'm torn between either the two top non-code S finishers from MLG Winter Arena, or the top non-code S finisher from MLG Winter and the top non-code S finisher from Assembly. If the two non-code S players in MLG Winter manage to finish top 3, I'd say give them the seeds. Otherwise, I'd also be okay to give one to Polt who, even if the player pool of Assembly wasn't nearly as stacked as MLG, is the reining champion of Assembly.
No one except Stephano. Simple as that.
Their success is more due to their foreign tournament experience (ability to deal with jetlag, pressure, different conditions than in GSL...) than a sudden and dramatic increase of skill.
" No one except Stephano "
*Sees user is from France*
I don't usually make posts like this but I just cannot believe how biased you are, it's sickening.
Polt beat him in the finals 4-1 but he does not deserve a seed " because he deals with jetlag and pressure well, and the conditions are different than in the GSL. " ( Which he WON a championship in )
Fanboy logic is just stunning sometimes.
Sorry, one of my premise was : * assuming that no-seeds will be given to any Korean*.
[I know I'll regret getting into this but...] Even by excluding Koreans you are in trouble. Naniwa and Huk have much bigger tournament wins than Stephano, and they have consistently beaten Code S players in BoX in elimination rounds. Hell, even Idra in his slump has a better claim to the seed thanks to consistent big MLG wins against good players, even if I would not advocate for anyone to give him a seed at the moment. So an argument that no-one else deserves a seed is still bigoted, objectively false and quite literally sickening.
This is an awful post...Naniwa won't get the seed, especially after what he did in Blizzard Cup.Besides, how is his tournament win bigger than Stephano's? Huk is obviously a good contender but he's been pretty inconsistent recently. And yeah comparing Idra who lost pretty much every game he played recently to Stephano is really smart....
Naniwa's MLG run has already been more impressive than Stephano's Assembly run, even if he didn't get as far, just based on the players he beat. Stephano had a very easy bracket, advanced entirely based on one matchup, beat a code b terran and then fell 1-4 to Polt. Naniwa beat Nestea and Leenock in bo3, I think that alone is more impressive.
On February 26 2012 20:21 JustPassingBy wrote: Spoiler: discussion might contain recent tournament results!
Hi TL, I wanted to start a discussion about who are the hottest candidates for the code S seeds in the next GSL season. A discussion about possible benefits and drawbacks, as well as alternatives of the said seeding system should go here: link (note that the thread is misinformed though, because Koreans are also eligible for the seeds, see below.)
Who is eligible for the code S seeds and on what criteria are they handed out?
We have introduced our new format for the 2012 GSL Tour a while ago, which includes changes to the way international seeds are being given out. [...] In 2012 the GSL will have 2 Code S sponsor seeds. These seeds will be determined by outstanding results in international tournaments.
For your reminder, here are all the premier tournament (as of Liquipedia) that happened recently or are happening right now: MLG Winter Arena, Assembly Winter, IEM Sao Paolo, IEM Kiev, HomeStory Cup So who do you think is the hottest candidate for a code S seed and why?
Personally, I'm torn between either the two top non-code S finishers from MLG Winter Arena, or the top non-code S finisher from MLG Winter and the top non-code S finisher from Assembly. If the two non-code S players in MLG Winter manage to finish top 3, I'd say give them the seeds. Otherwise, I'd also be okay to give one to Polt who, even if the player pool of Assembly wasn't nearly as stacked as MLG, is the reining champion of Assembly.
No one except Stephano. Simple as that.
Their success is more due to their foreign tournament experience (ability to deal with jetlag, pressure, different conditions than in GSL...) than a sudden and dramatic increase of skill.
" No one except Stephano "
*Sees user is from France*
I don't usually make posts like this but I just cannot believe how biased you are, it's sickening.
Polt beat him in the finals 4-1 but he does not deserve a seed " because he deals with jetlag and pressure well, and the conditions are different than in the GSL. " ( Which he WON a championship in )
Fanboy logic is just stunning sometimes.
Sorry, one of my premise was : * assuming that no-seeds will be given to any Korean*.
Okay then your post makes more sense, I apologize for over-reacting.
I agree Stephano is the only foreigner that would put up a fight in Code S atm.
On February 26 2012 20:21 JustPassingBy wrote: Spoiler: discussion might contain recent tournament results!
Hi TL, I wanted to start a discussion about who are the hottest candidates for the code S seeds in the next GSL season. A discussion about possible benefits and drawbacks, as well as alternatives of the said seeding system should go here: link (note that the thread is misinformed though, because Koreans are also eligible for the seeds, see below.)
Who is eligible for the code S seeds and on what criteria are they handed out?
We have introduced our new format for the 2012 GSL Tour a while ago, which includes changes to the way international seeds are being given out. [...] In 2012 the GSL will have 2 Code S sponsor seeds. These seeds will be determined by outstanding results in international tournaments.
For your reminder, here are all the premier tournament (as of Liquipedia) that happened recently or are happening right now: MLG Winter Arena, Assembly Winter, IEM Sao Paolo, IEM Kiev, HomeStory Cup So who do you think is the hottest candidate for a code S seed and why?
Personally, I'm torn between either the two top non-code S finishers from MLG Winter Arena, or the top non-code S finisher from MLG Winter and the top non-code S finisher from Assembly. If the two non-code S players in MLG Winter manage to finish top 3, I'd say give them the seeds. Otherwise, I'd also be okay to give one to Polt who, even if the player pool of Assembly wasn't nearly as stacked as MLG, is the reining champion of Assembly.
No one except Stephano. Simple as that.
Their success is more due to their foreign tournament experience (ability to deal with jetlag, pressure, different conditions than in GSL...) than a sudden and dramatic increase of skill.
" No one except Stephano "
*Sees user is from France*
I don't usually make posts like this but I just cannot believe how biased you are, it's sickening.
Polt beat him in the finals 4-1 but he does not deserve a seed " because he deals with jetlag and pressure well, and the conditions are different than in the GSL. " ( Which he WON a championship in )
Fanboy logic is just stunning sometimes.
Sorry, one of my premise was : * assuming that no-seeds will be given to any Korean*.
[I know I'll regret getting into this but...] Even by excluding Koreans you are in trouble. Naniwa and Huk have much bigger tournament wins than Stephano, and they have consistently beaten Code S players in BoX in elimination rounds. Hell, even Idra in his slump has a better claim to the seed thanks to consistent big MLG wins against good players, even if I would not advocate for anyone to give him a seed at the moment. So an argument that no-one else deserves a seed is still bigoted, objectively false and quite literally sickening.
This is an awful post...Naniwa won't get the seed, especially after what he did in Blizzard Cup.Besides, how is his tournament win bigger than Stephano's? Huk is obviously a good contender but he's been pretty inconsistent recently. And yeah comparing Idra who lost pretty much every game he played recently to Stephano is really smart....
Naniwa's MLG run has already been more impressive than Stephano's Assembly run, even if he didn't get as far, just based on the players he beat. Stephano had a very easy bracket, advanced entirely based on one matchup, beat a code b terran and then fell 1-4 to Polt. Naniwa beat Nestea and Leenock in bo3, I think that alone is more impressive.
Did you actually watch the game ? All relied on cheeses (either 1 base Zerg rush, 2 base Protoss all-in etc..). Besides, Nestea is on a slump for quite a while now, thus his only impressive win was against Leenock.
On February 26 2012 20:21 JustPassingBy wrote: Spoiler: discussion might contain recent tournament results!
Hi TL, I wanted to start a discussion about who are the hottest candidates for the code S seeds in the next GSL season. A discussion about possible benefits and drawbacks, as well as alternatives of the said seeding system should go here: link (note that the thread is misinformed though, because Koreans are also eligible for the seeds, see below.)
Who is eligible for the code S seeds and on what criteria are they handed out?
We have introduced our new format for the 2012 GSL Tour a while ago, which includes changes to the way international seeds are being given out. [...] In 2012 the GSL will have 2 Code S sponsor seeds. These seeds will be determined by outstanding results in international tournaments.
For your reminder, here are all the premier tournament (as of Liquipedia) that happened recently or are happening right now: MLG Winter Arena, Assembly Winter, IEM Sao Paolo, IEM Kiev, HomeStory Cup So who do you think is the hottest candidate for a code S seed and why?
Personally, I'm torn between either the two top non-code S finishers from MLG Winter Arena, or the top non-code S finisher from MLG Winter and the top non-code S finisher from Assembly. If the two non-code S players in MLG Winter manage to finish top 3, I'd say give them the seeds. Otherwise, I'd also be okay to give one to Polt who, even if the player pool of Assembly wasn't nearly as stacked as MLG, is the reining champion of Assembly.
No one except Stephano. Simple as that.
Their success is more due to their foreign tournament experience (ability to deal with jetlag, pressure, different conditions than in GSL...) than a sudden and dramatic increase of skill.
" No one except Stephano "
*Sees user is from France*
I don't usually make posts like this but I just cannot believe how biased you are, it's sickening.
Polt beat him in the finals 4-1 but he does not deserve a seed " because he deals with jetlag and pressure well, and the conditions are different than in the GSL. " ( Which he WON a championship in )
Fanboy logic is just stunning sometimes.
Sorry, one of my premise was : * assuming that no-seeds will be given to any Korean*.
[I know I'll regret getting into this but...] Even by excluding Koreans you are in trouble. Naniwa and Huk have much bigger tournament wins than Stephano, and they have consistently beaten Code S players in BoX in elimination rounds. Hell, even Idra in his slump has a better claim to the seed thanks to consistent big MLG wins against good players, even if I would not advocate for anyone to give him a seed at the moment. So an argument that no-one else deserves a seed is still bigoted, objectively false and quite literally sickening.
This is an awful post...Naniwa won't get the seed, especially after what he did in Blizzard Cup.Besides, how is his tournament win bigger than Stephano's? Huk is obviously a good contender but he's been pretty inconsistent recently. And yeah comparing Idra who lost pretty much every game he played recently to Stephano is really smart....
Naniwa's MLG run has already been more impressive than Stephano's Assembly run, even if he didn't get as far, just based on the players he beat. Stephano had a very easy bracket, advanced entirely based on one matchup, beat a code b terran and then fell 1-4 to Polt. Naniwa beat Nestea and Leenock in bo3, I think that alone is more impressive.
Yeah, and he was 0-4 in Blizzard cup and never won a single GSL match so far...And it's not Stephano's fault that his bracket was easier...Nestea lost to Demuslim in the winner bracket, guess he is more impressive than Stephano...
Oh and Naniwa fell to a 6 pool, which is less than code b material/facepalm
On February 26 2012 20:21 JustPassingBy wrote: Spoiler: discussion might contain recent tournament results!
Hi TL, I wanted to start a discussion about who are the hottest candidates for the code S seeds in the next GSL season. A discussion about possible benefits and drawbacks, as well as alternatives of the said seeding system should go here: link (note that the thread is misinformed though, because Koreans are also eligible for the seeds, see below.)
Who is eligible for the code S seeds and on what criteria are they handed out?
We have introduced our new format for the 2012 GSL Tour a while ago, which includes changes to the way international seeds are being given out. [...] In 2012 the GSL will have 2 Code S sponsor seeds. These seeds will be determined by outstanding results in international tournaments.
For your reminder, here are all the premier tournament (as of Liquipedia) that happened recently or are happening right now: MLG Winter Arena, Assembly Winter, IEM Sao Paolo, IEM Kiev, HomeStory Cup So who do you think is the hottest candidate for a code S seed and why?
Personally, I'm torn between either the two top non-code S finishers from MLG Winter Arena, or the top non-code S finisher from MLG Winter and the top non-code S finisher from Assembly. If the two non-code S players in MLG Winter manage to finish top 3, I'd say give them the seeds. Otherwise, I'd also be okay to give one to Polt who, even if the player pool of Assembly wasn't nearly as stacked as MLG, is the reining champion of Assembly.
No one except Stephano. Simple as that.
Their success is more due to their foreign tournament experience (ability to deal with jetlag, pressure, different conditions than in GSL...) than a sudden and dramatic increase of skill.
" No one except Stephano "
*Sees user is from France*
I don't usually make posts like this but I just cannot believe how biased you are, it's sickening.
Polt beat him in the finals 4-1 but he does not deserve a seed " because he deals with jetlag and pressure well, and the conditions are different than in the GSL. " ( Which he WON a championship in )
Fanboy logic is just stunning sometimes.
Sorry, one of my premise was : * assuming that no-seeds will be given to any Korean*.
[I know I'll regret getting into this but...] Even by excluding Koreans you are in trouble. Naniwa and Huk have much bigger tournament wins than Stephano, and they have consistently beaten Code S players in BoX in elimination rounds. Hell, even Idra in his slump has a better claim to the seed thanks to consistent big MLG wins against good players, even if I would not advocate for anyone to give him a seed at the moment. So an argument that no-one else deserves a seed is still bigoted, objectively false and quite literally sickening.
This is an awful post...Naniwa won't get the seed, especially after what he did in Blizzard Cup.Besides, how is his tournament win bigger than Stephano's? Huk is obviously a good contender but he's been pretty inconsistent recently. And yeah comparing Idra who lost pretty much every game he played recently to Stephano is really smart....
Naniwa's MLG run has already been more impressive than Stephano's Assembly run, even if he didn't get as far, just based on the players he beat. Stephano had a very easy bracket, advanced entirely based on one matchup, beat a code b terran and then fell 1-4 to Polt. Naniwa beat Nestea and Leenock in bo3, I think that alone is more impressive.
Did you actually watch the game ? All relied on cheeses (either 1 base Zerg rush, 2 base Protoss all-in etc..). Besides, Nestea is on a slump for quite a while now, thus his only impressive win was against Leenock.
Yeah I watched all of the games, did you? Nestea played well, his slump is only relative to his recent domination, it doesn't make him a bad player. Even a slumping nestea is better than the bracket that Stephano went through in Assembly.. A slumping Nestea is still top 3 zerg IMO.
Besides, I would say Nestea's ZvP even slumping is better than Leenock. Leenock is known to not have the greatest ZvP, which is why he resorts to roach ling all-ins so often. Both of the wins were impressive even if it really came down to mindgames and not pure mechanics.
On February 26 2012 20:21 JustPassingBy wrote: Spoiler: discussion might contain recent tournament results!
Hi TL, I wanted to start a discussion about who are the hottest candidates for the code S seeds in the next GSL season. A discussion about possible benefits and drawbacks, as well as alternatives of the said seeding system should go here: link (note that the thread is misinformed though, because Koreans are also eligible for the seeds, see below.)
Who is eligible for the code S seeds and on what criteria are they handed out?
We have introduced our new format for the 2012 GSL Tour a while ago, which includes changes to the way international seeds are being given out. [...] In 2012 the GSL will have 2 Code S sponsor seeds. These seeds will be determined by outstanding results in international tournaments.
For your reminder, here are all the premier tournament (as of Liquipedia) that happened recently or are happening right now: MLG Winter Arena, Assembly Winter, IEM Sao Paolo, IEM Kiev, HomeStory Cup So who do you think is the hottest candidate for a code S seed and why?
Personally, I'm torn between either the two top non-code S finishers from MLG Winter Arena, or the top non-code S finisher from MLG Winter and the top non-code S finisher from Assembly. If the two non-code S players in MLG Winter manage to finish top 3, I'd say give them the seeds. Otherwise, I'd also be okay to give one to Polt who, even if the player pool of Assembly wasn't nearly as stacked as MLG, is the reining champion of Assembly.
No one except Stephano. Simple as that.
Their success is more due to their foreign tournament experience (ability to deal with jetlag, pressure, different conditions than in GSL...) than a sudden and dramatic increase of skill.
" No one except Stephano "
*Sees user is from France*
I don't usually make posts like this but I just cannot believe how biased you are, it's sickening.
Polt beat him in the finals 4-1 but he does not deserve a seed " because he deals with jetlag and pressure well, and the conditions are different than in the GSL. " ( Which he WON a championship in )
Fanboy logic is just stunning sometimes.
Sorry, one of my premise was : * assuming that no-seeds will be given to any Korean*.
[I know I'll regret getting into this but...] Even by excluding Koreans you are in trouble. Naniwa and Huk have much bigger tournament wins than Stephano, and they have consistently beaten Code S players in BoX in elimination rounds. Hell, even Idra in his slump has a better claim to the seed thanks to consistent big MLG wins against good players, even if I would not advocate for anyone to give him a seed at the moment. So an argument that no-one else deserves a seed is still bigoted, objectively false and quite literally sickening.
This is an awful post...Naniwa won't get the seed, especially after what he did in Blizzard Cup.Besides, how is his tournament win bigger than Stephano's? Huk is obviously a good contender but he's been pretty inconsistent recently. And yeah comparing Idra who lost pretty much every game he played recently to Stephano is really smart....
Naniwa's MLG run has already been more impressive than Stephano's Assembly run, even if he didn't get as far, just based on the players he beat. Stephano had a very easy bracket, advanced entirely based on one matchup, beat a code b terran and then fell 1-4 to Polt. Naniwa beat Nestea and Leenock in bo3, I think that alone is more impressive.
Yeah, and he was 0-4 in Blizzard cup and never won a single GSL match so far...And it's not Stephano's fault that his bracket was easier...Nestea lost to Demuslim in the winner bracket, guess he is more impressive than Stephano...
Oh and Naniwa fell to a 6 pool, which is less than code b material/facepalm
I get it, you are french and feel like you need to defend your hero, but Naniwa's recent performance (not his past performances) was more impressive. Stephano hasn't really had any great results besides taking easy wins in relatively soft tournaments.
As I said, I'm going to regret mentioning Stephano's name because one will be assaulted by French swarms.
Just to point a couple of, in my mind, reasonable premises for the Code S seed discussion. We should be looking at people's accomplishments. Major tournament wins, good runs, important BoX wins, that kind of stuff.
Things that I do not think make sense as criteria: losses - everyone loses in sc2, and one doesn't go and say that Mvp losing to July makes Mvp code B material, right? There's a reason why the golden mouse in BW goes to people that win 3 major tournaments, rather than to the player that avoids embarrassing losses.
Another thing that doesn't make sense is the manner of victory. Cheesing or losing to cheese is part of SC2 and not a reason to disqualify players from a tournament. It's definitely not a reason to deny major accomplishments.
If you want to argue for Stephano, lay out an actual argument. Take his history, and compare it to the history of other players. TLPD will help you immensely.
Naniwa and Stephano has both had impressive tournament results which are impossible to compare(which wont stop you guys from trying), but considering Naniwa has been given a shit load of chances in GSL already, Stephano should have first dibs on a potential foreign seed at this time.
On February 27 2012 01:47 HuKPOWA wrote: LOL love how everyone isnt putting Ret up there....most consistent in tournaments atm taking out MVP and Sase.
HuK probably wont get the seed again...unless he wins this MLG....is the only way ill see him getting back in
agreed, Ret deserves a mentioning, besides HSC, he has been very consistent but I think if he wants to go to Korea, Up&Downs would be a good start for him
i don't get the huk claims. what did he show after his code a loss? mlg is his first appearance since than, and he probably had the easiest two first opponents, and than he beat ret and parting. i don't think this qualifies for a code s spot at all. compared to stephano, who plays constantly good for several months. also if would be the second time huk gets the seed. i think its too early to start giving people there second seeds.
This whole system is bullshit, if somone gets knocked out of GSL and are good enough to get back in they will get back in, these seeds should either not exist or be for people who haven't tried to qualify for GSL for atleast 3-6 months because otherwise it's ridiculous. Oh you're not good enough to get in through the qualifiers, well here have a free seed. Especially now there are so many more qualifier spots and it's easier to get into up + downs or get Code S directly.
I gotta say that I disagree with the offering of free seeds, however if anything, Polt should get one. Despite Asus ROG being a foreign tournament, Polt performed very well against a variety of opponents, including koreans and tip top foreign players. Furthermore, looking at his past results it's safe to say that he's got what it takes to pull his own weight in the GSL.
There are a handful of other players who could get a seed too but I don't think they would perform well in the GSL, which is a whole different beast compared to foreign / international tournaments.
and btw am i the only one who thinks there shouldn't be a seed at all? is there really anyone who would watch less gsl because of the lack of foreigners? i mean, how exciting can it be to watch a player you don't think is able to qualifier through code b. and don't tell me code b is hard. yes, it is hard, but you can't praise polt and hype is performance at assembly and at the same time think its hard for him to go through code b. he IS good, and he would re-qualifiy EASYLY, so no need to waste seed.
On February 27 2012 02:04 tztztz wrote: and btw am i the only one who thinks there shouldn't be a seed at all? is there really anyone who would watch less gsl because of the lack of foreigners? i mean, how exciting can it be to watch a player you don't think is able to qualifier through code b. and don't tell me code b is hard. yes, it is hard, but you can't praise polt and hype is performance at assembly and at the same time think its hard for him to go through code b. he IS good, and he would re-qualifiy EASYLY, so no need to waste seed.
I agree with you but truth is that not everybody watches the game to watch good matches some people watch the game to see their favourite players
On February 26 2012 20:27 Yaki wrote: As a whole Assembly wasn't as stacked as MLG Arena but Polt's run was harder than most people's run in MLG arena. Taking down TaeJa, HerO, Lucky, Stephano. Or rather destroying them.
On February 27 2012 02:00 Fermats_last wrote: This whole system is bullshit, if somone gets knocked out of GSL and are good enough to get back in they will get back in, these seeds should either not exist or be for people who haven't tried to qualify for GSL for atleast 3-6 months because otherwise it's ridiculous. Oh you're not good enough to get in through the qualifiers, well here have a free seed. Especially now there are so many more qualifier spots and it's easier to get into up + downs or get Code S directly.
The seeds exists, because its a huge commitment for foreigners to travel to Korea just to play the Code A qualifiers. And the GSL wants foreigners, so they give more incentives. It doesnt have to be Code S seeds (but I'm ok with this).
For the Koreans, the GSL can be very unforgiving. DRG had a hard time in GSL and only got Code S due to a seed. The Invites so far have been MC, MMA, DRG. I like that good players get more opportunities.
On February 27 2012 02:04 tztztz wrote: and btw am i the only one who thinks there shouldn't be a seed at all? is there really anyone who would watch less gsl because of the lack of foreigners? i mean, how exciting can it be to watch a player you don't think is able to qualifier through code b. and don't tell me code b is hard. yes, it is hard, but you can't praise polt and hype is performance at assembly and at the same time think its hard for him to go through code b. he IS good, and he would re-qualifiy EASYLY, so no need to waste seed.
Sadly, there are tons of players that won't watch unless there is a 'foreigner'. It's sad that people can't just watch for the amazing players that are already in it, but people are biased against koreans.
I think Polt is the only one deserving of a Code S seed, if even. I don't mind seeds into Code A, and up and down seeds are alright I guess, but Code S should have absolutely 0 seeds. Keep it the best of the best, there are already people stuck in code A who are deserving of code S, don't give the prestige to some random foreigner.
On February 26 2012 21:39 aebriol wrote: 1) COCA ! - Because he is code S caliber. - Because he did something stupid unintentionally - Because his punishment was given by his team, not by GOM, and so there's nothing wrong with rewarding him a seed to get him back. - Because there are likely less Zergs than other races. - Because I like him! (most important, of course)
2) Huk if he wins MLG, otherwise Polt.
... partly because I don't think Violet would take it.
I would like to see Coca too, but first of all, I doubt Gom would give him one since he was involved in all those shenanigans, and two, he would probably reject the offer anyways, since he wants to redeem himself through personal training and hard work
Personally I'm tired of seeing Foreigners get a seed and then get stomped. I know they are just doing this so people from foreign countries have more of an incentive to watch, but this is only my opinion >.>
On February 27 2012 02:04 tztztz wrote: and btw am i the only one who thinks there shouldn't be a seed at all? is there really anyone who would watch less gsl because of the lack of foreigners? i mean, how exciting can it be to watch a player you don't think is able to qualifier through code b. and don't tell me code b is hard. yes, it is hard, but you can't praise polt and hype is performance at assembly and at the same time think its hard for him to go through code b. he IS good, and he would re-qualifiy EASYLY, so no need to waste seed.
easily qualify like Bomber and DRG? Code B qualifiers and Code A are single elimination and not easy at all. One bad day or bad matchup.
The korean scene is pretty stacked with talent, even in Code B.. I support code A seeds for notable achievements and up and downs for a select select few, but code S is too far
Polt or like..viOlet should have it..but I mean..there are no real foreigner that deserves it..maybe Stephano..? His skills are far superior as an example Morrows skills........and Morrow had an invite to Code A.
If Huk or Naniwa would get it I would have to throw up. Huk lost his shit recently, and Naniwa had got a shot into GSL like 3-4 times and failed it. They should both earn the spot by going through the Code A qualifications as all the other progamers in korea do Imo.
Maybe they should just skip handing out these seeds tbh...
On February 27 2012 02:04 tztztz wrote: and btw am i the only one who thinks there shouldn't be a seed at all? is there really anyone who would watch less gsl because of the lack of foreigners? i mean, how exciting can it be to watch a player you don't think is able to qualifier through code b. and don't tell me code b is hard. yes, it is hard, but you can't praise polt and hype is performance at assembly and at the same time think its hard for him to go through code b. he IS good, and he would re-qualifiy EASYLY, so no need to waste seed.
easily qualify like Bomber and DRG? Code B qualifiers and Code A are single elimination and not easy at all. One bad day or bad matchup.
DRG only failed once, he would've been code s by now for sure. and bomber was never a seed worthy code s player ever.
edit: if you have a bad match up, work on it. yeah, you can have a bad day that can screw you, but than you qualify next time. how likly is it to have 3 or 4 bad days?? not that likly if you are DRG
I would like seeds to be for Up&Down only. Anyway, with the current system, I guess that Polt would be a good candidate (yes, he has been knocked out of Code A, but by Creator).
if Stephano doesn't want it, they should give seeds to huk and naniwa simply because they are the best foreigners who might have a chance. Code A seeds should be given to people that have good results. Once there are more foreigners who can compete on code S level than you will have more to choose from.
I think right now Violet, Dimaga, Polt and Stephano should all be considered. But, seeing as Violet and Polt are
a) Korean b) dropped out of Code A
Dimaga and Stephano should get first pick. However, MLG Winter Arena as well as IEM World Championship have yet to be played, and I think the chances are that there will be two foreigners who do better and maybe place first. It would be cool to have high placers in MLG Columbus, but it ends the day before Code S starts, so that's unrealistic.
Naniwa and Huk might be considered too for their Winter Arena performances, but Huk just dropped out of Code A and I'm not sure Gom is willing to give Naniwa a Code S seed just yet.
So to summarize:
The seeds should be Stephano and Dimaga for now, and possibly foreigners who do well in IEM WC.
It feels weird seeding Polt and HuK, even though they probably deserve it due to tournament results. But they are definitely the most deserving for the code S seeds. As for the international up-and-down seeds, MaNa, Kas, Ret... Maybe TLO, as he should be going to Korea soon.
If these seeds are reserved for foreign players, there is not much of a choice really.
- HuK (for his MLG Winter performance) just got dropped out of Code A, so I doubt that bringing him straight back to Code S would be proper etiquette. - Sen (for his GSL performance) is probably worthy of the reward, unless he catastrophically fails in up&down matches. It's not impossible he makes it through by himself, anyways. - Naniwa (for defeating Nestea and Leenock at MLG) is without a doubt a strong player when he's not facing Lucky. I'm not sure that GOM has come to terms with the probe rush incident, unfortunately. - Stephano (for his Assembly performance) will not accept it, so don't bother. - Dimaga (for IEM and HSC performances) : not much too say, the other four are probably better but there are no outside-of-game obstacles in his case. - Anyone else : if you really want to see another 0-6 into Code B, sure.
I don't see them giving it to a korean no matter what they say. The whole purpose of seeds is to enrich the world wide appeal. Meaning foreigners so Polt is SOL. He'll have to go through normal channels like every other Korean. My guess is Stephano and HuK ATM.
On February 27 2012 02:02 SRBNikola wrote: EGIdrA for sure
for what? personally I don't like the seeds at all.
I don't really like the seeds either. They seem to be just giving them away based on popularity.
The fact that Idra got a high seed and then promptly lost in embarrasing fashion speaks volumes about how seeds should not be just given for being popular.
If the seeds are given for winning an open entry tournament I think it can be good thing because it gives up and coming players a chance to show they can compete on the big stage. Essentially acting as a CodeB/GSL quailfier in another country. But if the seeds are just a free pass for regular invite players to fail in the GSL then come back because they are already involved in the circuit it seems counter-productive, why even knock them out for losing if you are going to invite them right back?
If it was more cut and dried I would like it more. Like it was the MLG open season last year, win an MLG and you get a GSL Seed. Simple and effective and serves it's purpose well. Being all vague and giving out seeds to just whoever they want based on opinions and/or hidden criterior just seems against the whole idea of a competetive tournament.
They should definitely give one to Polt. His fall to Code B was really unfortunate and kinda bad luck on his part. Firstly, when he did Up and Down matches it was November, which was the season with the oddball format that was only used once, and he got knocked out in Bo1s, instead of Bo3s like the format was actually designed for (They had the goofy short version of the new format for GSL November only). Then he even said himself he was really sick for his game against Creator in Code A and wasn't really in any condition to play.
I just think of it this way, had Polt got into Code S instead of Inca, he actually would have been able to get somewhere. Inca's play only works in Bo1 and team league, because people are going to get detection against him as soon as they lose to him once. Had that set of Up and Down matches been Bo3 like the format was designed for, Inca would have lost. There's no way either Polt or Losira would have lost to him in a Bo3.
I don't see what foreigner they would give the seeds to right now. Stephano would be good but I don't know if he would accept it. Maybe Huk depending on his MLG performance. Definitely not Idra, that guy needs to fix both his play and his mindset before he's considered a threat again. Naniwa would be okay but I doubt they'd do that.
On February 27 2012 02:49 Gator wrote: definitely think that HuK should not get a Code S seed for at least 1 season after his terrible showing in GSL. maybe Stephano or Nani i guess
What? One bad season should overwrite his countless of Code S seasons? He have even reached the quarter finals in GSL. Personally I think HuK or NaNiwa will get the second Code S seed next to Polt.
I don't think anyone can say Polt isn't one of the best SC2 players right now he actually played amazing in most of his games despite falling to Code A he can beat any Player.
ATM IMO
Genius Gumiho MKP Polt and DRG are Beasts ATM their play is incredible
On February 27 2012 03:12 XRaDiiX wrote: I don't think anyone can say Polt isn't one of the best SC2 players right now he actually played amazing in most of his games despite falling to Code A he can beat any Player.
ATM IMO
Genius Gumiho MKP Polt and DRG are Beasts ATM their play is incredible
He looks amazing sometimes but definitely wouldn't place him top 5 terran, he looks amazing playing against code a/b players but lots of people do. He hasn't had very good results in team leagues lately either. I think he is a very good code a level player and maybe a ro16 code s player.
On February 27 2012 02:49 Gator wrote: definitely think that HuK should not get a Code S seed for at least 1 season after his terrible showing in GSL. maybe Stephano or Nani i guess
MMA got a Code S seed from MLG right after he was knocked into Code B. Same with MC. Code A is a very unforgiving tournament, and losing one Bo3 should not be an instant disqualification. Look at the number of times Naniwa and Sase were given in Code A even though they were repeatedly knocked out in the first round (by the way, I do hope the two of them continue to participate in the GSL).
I don't think they will give the seeds to koreans even if they are able to do so. The reason why they got the seeds are to get foreigners into GSL. If no foreigners play in GSL then they lose a lot of potential premium buyers. More foreigners equals more money.
My guess is that Stephano and Naniwa get code S spots. I don't think they want to give HuK's back since he just lost his, otherwise he would have been a candidate as well.
On February 27 2012 03:39 Batch wrote: I don't think they will give the seeds to koreans even if they are able to do so. The reason why they got the seeds are to get foreigners into GSL. If no foreigners play in GSL then they lose a lot of potential premium buyers. More foreigners equals more money.
My guess is that Stephano and Naniwa get code S spots. I don't think they want to give HuK's back since he just lost his, otherwise he would have been a candidate as well.
Agreed I want Polt and Violet to get the spots though although for obvious reasons $$$ GSL wants foreigners and Stephano and Naniwa are the best Foreigners no doubt
On February 27 2012 02:49 Gator wrote: definitely think that HuK should not get a Code S seed for at least 1 season after his terrible showing in GSL. maybe Stephano or Nani i guess
MMA got a Code S seed from MLG right after he was knocked into Code B. Same with MC. Code A is a very unforgiving tournament, and losing one Bo3 should not be an instant disqualification. Look at the number of times Naniwa and Sase were given in Code A even though they were repeatedly knocked out in the first round (by the way, I do hope the two of them continue to participate in the GSL).
Only Sase was invited once. Naniwa qualified through the MLG Exchange numerous times and Sase qualified through MLG and the Swedish "Road to Korea" tournament.
On February 27 2012 03:59 Grumbels wrote: idra did improve a lot and played very well vs oz, he would put up a fight in code S, but I guess he doesn't really have good recent results
Classic Idra. He plays "well" in one match(that he even lost) and his fanboys put him right up there to Code S level. I don't get it.
On February 27 2012 03:59 Grumbels wrote: idra did improve a lot and played very well vs oz, he would put up a fight in code S, but I guess he doesn't really have good recent results
Classic Idra. He plays "well" in one match(that he even lost) and his fanboys put him right up there to Code S level. I don't get it.
I don't think Idra would put up a fight in code S. Last time he was there he wen't 0-2 and straight to code B.
Polt for sure and second seed is for someone else, can't decide
On February 27 2012 02:49 Gator wrote: definitely think that HuK should not get a Code S seed for at least 1 season after his terrible showing in GSL. maybe Stephano or Nani i guess
MMA got a Code S seed from MLG right after he was knocked into Code B. Same with MC. Code A is a very unforgiving tournament, and losing one Bo3 should not be an instant disqualification. Look at the number of times Naniwa and Sase were given in Code A even though they were repeatedly knocked out in the first round (by the way, I do hope the two of them continue to participate in the GSL).
Only Sase was invited once. Naniwa qualified through the MLG Exchange numerous times and Sase qualified through MLG and the Swedish "Road to Korea" tournament.
Sase received 2 seeds. He played in GSL August and October. Unless you meant he got one seed through Road to Korea and then was invited once without winning it directly by coming in second at CPL to Marineking
I doubt HuK or Polt will get a seed because they just fell out of code A. I'm thinking viOLet will probably get one but I don't know about the other one.
On February 27 2012 02:49 Gator wrote: definitely think that HuK should not get a Code S seed for at least 1 season after his terrible showing in GSL. maybe Stephano or Nani i guess
MMA got a Code S seed from MLG right after he was knocked into Code B. Same with MC. Code A is a very unforgiving tournament, and losing one Bo3 should not be an instant disqualification. Look at the number of times Naniwa and Sase were given in Code A even though they were repeatedly knocked out in the first round (by the way, I do hope the two of them continue to participate in the GSL).
Only Sase was invited once. Naniwa qualified through the MLG Exchange numerous times and Sase qualified through MLG and the Swedish "Road to Korea" tournament.
Sase received 2 seeds. He played in GSL August and October. Unless you meant he got one seed through Road to Korea and then was invited once without winning it directly by coming in second at CPL to Marineking
Sase got 3 seeds. One was an invite due to CPL. The other 2 were qualifications through MLG and Road to Korea.
GOM isnt just deliberately giving seeds to Naniwa and Sase. Despite one invite for Sase they qualified.
Violet should get one seed he has a major tourney win and a strong showing at mlg arena second could go to any number of players I would say it will be Ret huk or polt. I would think one will go to a foreigner and gom might want a new face rather then give huk his seed right back
give it to polt!!!! he is the most deserving and has the best shot in code S. also looks better than everyone else mentioned, and looks matter more than anything else here
Since seeds aren't just for foreigners any longer I think Polt and Naniwa (Even though HuK made it further than him at MLG, I personally was more impressed with Nanis run).
It will be really disappointing if Polt doesn't get it. Look at his run through Assembly, IPL4 & NASL qualifiers and the players he beat to get there. Inca, Hero x2, Creator, TheStC, Bomber, Taeja, Lucky, Slush, Catz, and Stephano. I don't think anyone else up for the seed has qualifications the same as his.
I still think it should go to a foreigner, for marketing purposes.
Nobody is going to watch for Polt or Violet; it wouldn't be decisive of your choice whether or not to watch. On the other hand, some foreigners may find having Kas there or some other hardworking foreigner as enough reason to watch the GSL instead of some other fun thing.
Which players add viewers? That's the important question.
I do definitely think Polt should get one. Since there's not a clear number two, I'd say give it to Stephano. When he declines, they can give it to anyone else without criticism. Make that person Naniwa to make up for their terrible communication in the Blizzard Cup incident, and they'll be swimming in goodwill.
Violet for sure and Huk would be my second guess. Polt also but it feels weird giving him a seed. Rightt Stephano might be an option too, even ahead of Huk, though I don't think he'd take it.
There's not a lot of downside to inviting Stephano. If he doesn't accept, there are other equally-deserving players. If he does, you have easily the highest-profile foreign player you could have in the GSL.
On February 26 2012 20:29 Grovbolle wrote: To pull in some foreigner money I guess that Stephano for instance (2nd in ROG and lots of good performances) could be a candidate
And fan favorites like Ret (did well in WB in MLG, vs MVP and other great players)..
I think giving HuK a seed would be a bit anticlimax as he has just lost his.
As far as I know, Stephano isn't willing to return to korea.
This, same for White-Ra. People need to stop mentioning them alrdy.
On February 27 2012 10:05 LuckoftheIrish wrote: There's not a lot of downside to inviting Stephano. If he doesn't accept, there are other equally-deserving players. If he does, you have easily the highest-profile foreign player you could have in the GSL.
Lol worthy indeed. Not saying Idra or HuK or better, but they are definitely more well known than Stephano. Heck Incontrol is more well known.
On February 26 2012 20:29 Grovbolle wrote: To pull in some foreigner money I guess that Stephano for instance (2nd in ROG and lots of good performances) could be a candidate
And fan favorites like Ret (did well in WB in MLG, vs MVP and other great players)..
I think giving HuK a seed would be a bit anticlimax as he has just lost his.
As far as I know, Stephano isn't willing to return to korea.
This, same for White-Ra. People need to stop mentioning them alrdy.
On February 27 2012 10:05 LuckoftheIrish wrote: There's not a lot of downside to inviting Stephano. If he doesn't accept, there are other equally-deserving players. If he does, you have easily the highest-profile foreign player you could have in the GSL.
Lol worthy indeed. Not saying Idra or HuK or better, but they are definitely more well known than Stephano. Heck Incontrol is more well known.
Stephano not accepting could be a good thing, depending on how Gom wants to handle the situation.
Think about it; if he accepts, they get a high-profile foreign player. If he doesn't, they have the opportunity to offer to that to whoever they want with the cover of 'Stephano declined and we had to find a replacement.' That justification can be used to invite damn near anyone.
Edit to cover your edit:
You misunderstand. It's not about being well-known. Huk and Idra have been in GSL before. They've had runs, they've gotten knocked out early... it's fair to say they have a lot of history with that particular tournament.
Stephano, though... He's clearly very skilled. He's also not especially respectful of Korea's place as the pinnacle of Starcraft. He's on record saying that he's not interested in going back there because he learned everything he could and can learn more in Europe. He comes across as a pretty arrogant guy (IMO) and that's an angle that can create a TON of drama and hype for GSL. He'd be new, he'd be the bad boy, the guy every Korean wants to take out, and he's the best foreign player who hasn't already competed and lost. That's a situation that creates drama and hype, which will turn into viewership.
And again. If he declines, then GSL can invite Taeja (or whoever) and when everyone goes "OMG TAEJA? WHY TAEJA?", they can say "well, Stephano declined and we had to find a substitute on short notice. That meant we had to invite a Korean and Taeja was the best choice." Or whatever justification for whoever they need. Could be used to provide cover for a potentially controversial invite.
I'm pretty sure MKP will make it into code s through code a/up and downs anyways. Depedning on how polt does I'd say give it to him and huk (honestly you can say about huk what you want but getting top 3 at an event with that player lineup shows a lot) also he fell to code b when he literally wasn't praciticing for a long time and only started to play again like a week before his games.
On February 27 2012 10:11 ShakkaFL wrote: they should just stop with the welfare code s spots, if the player deserve the spots they will get through the qualifiers anyway
True, but MMA, DRG and MC were all welfare spots and DRG is now in the GSL finals, MMA has two titles, and MC has come back alive after getting his welfare spot.
Polt definitely deserves one. Played incredible games at Assembly and went through the bracket of hell, plus his online international results in the IPL qualifiers where he went through another hard road, NASL qualification, etc.
Second probably to Violet, but he would probably decline since he lives in the US now and seems interested more in foreign tournaments than Korea.
I guess if MarineKing somehow doesn't make Code S, then I guess him, but he'll probably make it by himself. After that, probably Huk or Stephano, and since Stephano would probably decline, Huk, I guess.
On February 27 2012 10:11 ShakkaFL wrote: they should just stop with the welfare code s spots, if the player deserve the spots they will get through the qualifiers anyway
Most sporting events have wildcard ("welfare") spots for players from underrepresented regions or players that can bring in big TV audiences. They do it in Tennis (Wildcard given to host country of the tournament, young players and aging veterans), Golf (sponsor exemptions), the Olympics (tripartite invitations for countries that don't qualify much athletes)... heck, in the Olympic Tennis tournament, 8 out of 64 players are invitees (2 tripartite, 6 "normal" wildcards).
The point being? "Welfare" spots are standard practice in sports, so I don't think its shocking or wrong that the GSL does it. Bottom line, its in their interest to invite players that help broaden their viewership base, and in the end its good for everyone.
polt was really impressive this weekend, stephano was also impressive so give him one if he would take it. demuslim or ret who upset big names at arena could get code A spots to fill in those who lost.
On February 27 2012 10:11 ShakkaFL wrote: they should just stop with the welfare code s spots, if the player deserve the spots they will get through the qualifiers anyway
No foreigner wants to to give up playing local tournaments for a month to move to Korea for a chance to get into code A
With MKP winning MLG, I think it is going to be Polt(ROG 1st) and viOlet(IEM 1st).
If either of them decline, then it would be one of (in no particular order): Huk(MLG 3rd) / Puma(ROG 3rd) / Ret(IEM 3rd) / DIMAGA(IEM 2nd) / Kas(IEM 3rd) / Sound(HSC 2nd) / Stephano(if he wants it)(ROG 2nd)
edit: Actually I think MKP might also be considered if he were to lose upcoming Code A match.
On February 27 2012 10:32 NHY wrote: With MKP winning MLG, I think it is going to be Polt(ROG 1st) and viOlet(IEM 1st).
If either of them decline, then it would be one of (in no particular order): Huk(MLG 3rd) / Puma(ROG 3rd) / Ret(IEM 3rd) / DIMAGA(IEM 2nd) / Kas(IEM 3rd) / Sound(HSC 2nd) / Stephano(if he wants it)(ROG 2nd)
I think Violet would decline since he said he's focusing on international tournaments. I'm sure Polt/Stephano would be great since both put on a great show this weekend, but Stephano would probably decline since I'm sure Chae would love him.
On February 27 2012 10:32 NHY wrote: With MKP winning MLG, I think it is going to be Polt(ROG 1st) and viOlet(IEM 1st).
If either of them decline, then it would be one of (in no particular order): Huk(MLG 3rd) / Puma(ROG 3rd) / Ret(IEM 3rd) / DIMAGA(IEM 2nd) / Kas(IEM 3rd) / Sound(HSC 2nd) / Stephano(if he wants it)(ROG 2nd)
edit: Actually I think MKP might also be considered if he were to lose upcoming Code A match.
As far as I know Stephano has stated that he would not accept a code S seed if it was offered to him.
On February 27 2012 10:32 NHY wrote: With MKP winning MLG, I think it is going to be Polt(ROG 1st) and viOlet(IEM 1st).
If either of them decline, then it would be one of (in no particular order): Huk(MLG 3rd) / Puma(ROG 3rd) / Ret(IEM 3rd) / DIMAGA(IEM 2nd) / Kas(IEM 3rd) / Sound(HSC 2nd) / Stephano(if he wants it)(ROG 2nd)
I think Violet would decline since he said he's focusing on international tournaments. I'm sure Polt/Stephano would be great since both put on a great show this weekend, but Stephano would probably decline since I'm sure Chae would love him.
I'm gonna guess Polt + Naniwa/Huk.
There is no way NaNiwa is getting the seed given his recent results.
On February 27 2012 10:32 NHY wrote: With MKP winning MLG, I think it is going to be Polt(ROG 1st) and viOlet(IEM 1st).
If either of them decline, then it would be one of (in no particular order): Huk(MLG 3rd) / Puma(ROG 3rd) / Ret(IEM 3rd) / DIMAGA(IEM 2nd) / Kas(IEM 3rd) / Sound(HSC 2nd) / Stephano(if he wants it)(ROG 2nd)
I think Violet would decline since he said he's focusing on international tournaments. I'm sure Polt/Stephano would be great since both put on a great show this weekend, but Stephano would probably decline since I'm sure Chae would love him.
I'm gonna guess Polt + Naniwa/Huk.
This is my guess as well. Seems pretty logical. Are they still giving out the up and down seeds as well like Morrow got or was that just because he was in Korea?
I think Polt is probably a lock for a Code S seed and though Violet might get an invite, I expect (like most of you) that he very well might decline it.
Last time they did some chinese invites to appeal to their new chinese audience, so I wonder if there might be a more business-oriented invite again based losely on decent results (but not wins). To that end HuK, Naniwa, Dimaga or Stephano are probably all candadites.
Also have to ask: are there any more major tournaments between now and the next season of GSL? Is there something for them to debate with after this weekend?
On February 27 2012 10:32 NHY wrote: With MKP winning MLG, I think it is going to be Polt(ROG 1st) and viOlet(IEM 1st).
If either of them decline, then it would be one of (in no particular order): Huk(MLG 3rd) / Puma(ROG 3rd) / Ret(IEM 3rd) / DIMAGA(IEM 2nd) / Kas(IEM 3rd) / Sound(HSC 2nd) / Stephano(if he wants it)(ROG 2nd)
I think Violet would decline since he said he's focusing on international tournaments. I'm sure Polt/Stephano would be great since both put on a great show this weekend, but Stephano would probably decline since I'm sure Chae would love him.
I'm gonna guess Polt + Naniwa/Huk.
There is no way NaNiwa is getting the seed given his recent results.
Why? He always does well at MLGs, is absolutely one of the best foreigners, has a chance to actually get to the Ro16. + Show Spoiler +
This MLG he won against Grubby, Sheth, NesTea and Leenock, only losing to the champion and the runner-up.
One of the seeds must be for Polt for sure. The second will go for a foreigner imo. It will not be Naniwa for obvious reasons, Stephano will refuse... And that most likely means that Huk will get the second seed. That's how I see it.
On February 27 2012 11:03 XRaDiiX wrote: If Polt doesn't get the seed i'm gonna be mad because he is obviously one of the most skilled players in the world.
Also is MKP still in Code S or is he in Up/Downs???
If MKP wins his Code A match, he's Code S. If he loses, then he goes to Up/Down for a 2 out of 5 chance to make it. He really should considering his skill. He's facing Killer, who should be tough, but a winnable opponent.
Polt, MKP , Violet Code S hard choice between those 3. I'm curious and would be interested to see a foreigner like Naniwa,Huk get it but i don't think they deserve it as much as the first 3 i named.
If MLG picks two foreigners i will be kind-of dissapointed because most likely they will just get smashed into the ground like they usually do.
Polt really deserves the seed, and I wouldn't mind seeing Naniwa try in code A for the 4th time. He really did play well this MLG although he will really need to change up his play, there are so many obvious patterns that will get picked apart in a tournament like the GSL. Stephano if he would accept it. I don't think Huk deserves a seed, maybe into code A but his mlg performance wasn't impressive (despite his 3rd place finish, only korean he took a game off was Oz in PvP). In spite of Naniwa's worse placement, he was more impressive.
On February 27 2012 11:03 XRaDiiX wrote: If Polt doesn't get the seed i'm gonna be mad because he is obviously one of the most skilled players in the world.
Also is MKP still in Code S or is he in Up/Downs???
Quite frankly it could be a lot of people. I think they will probably give it to a foreigner though, considering that hero and puma, 2 guys that were not in Code S but dominated the foreign tournaments were passed up last time.
Based off of the Winter Arena Results I think Huk should get seeded back into Code S next season, although it would be good to also see Naniwa in the GSL.
On February 27 2012 10:32 NHY wrote: With MKP winning MLG, I think it is going to be Polt(ROG 1st) and viOlet(IEM 1st).
If either of them decline, then it would be one of (in no particular order): Huk(MLG 3rd) / Puma(ROG 3rd) / Ret(IEM 3rd) / DIMAGA(IEM 2nd) / Kas(IEM 3rd) / Sound(HSC 2nd) / Stephano(if he wants it)(ROG 2nd)
I think Violet would decline since he said he's focusing on international tournaments. I'm sure Polt/Stephano would be great since both put on a great show this weekend, but Stephano would probably decline since I'm sure Chae would love him.
I'm gonna guess Polt + Naniwa/Huk.
There is no way NaNiwa is getting the seed given his recent results.
Why? He always does well at MLGs, is absolutely one of the best foreigners, has a chance to actually get to the Ro16. + Show Spoiler +
This MLG he won against Grubby, Sheth, NesTea and Leenock, only losing to the champion and the runner-up.
I really think he should get a seed
I'm not saying that NaNiwa is not good enough to be in Code S. NaNiwa is doing ok, but recently he placed 5th-8th in IEM and 7th-8th in MLG. Those are not "outstanding results in international tournaments."
On February 27 2012 10:11 ShakkaFL wrote: they should just stop with the welfare code s spots, if the player deserve the spots they will get through the qualifiers anyway
No foreigner wants to to give up playing local tournaments for a month to move to Korea for a chance to get into code A
A month isn't required to have a chance to get into Code A. They have the perfect opportunity to get into Code A after bombing out of the first round of Code S.
On February 26 2012 20:37 opterown wrote: MC was given his seed right after he fell out of Code A, so I see the seeds this time going to HuK and Polt.
no you're sadly mistaken MC one his code S seed fair and square because he got second in MLG since HuK al ready had a code S spot it would default to MC
I hope they give one to Ret. Highest placing foreigner at Sao Paolo and took down MVP at Winter Arena. Ret has said he'd be willing to go back to Korea to give it another try and a code S seed could be just the incentive to push him over the fence. Polt and other Koreans are no-no, they can qualify the normal way. The other seed can go to Naniwa or Huk. Don't bother with Stephano cuz he already said he's not interested in Korea.
I would personally like to see Polt and Naniwa. HuK has been given so many chances. I feel like if he is to compete in GSL again, he needs to earn it. Naniwa got screwed out of his spot. I think he deserves it back. And then Polt for obvious reasons.
On February 27 2012 12:08 red4ce wrote: I hope they give one to Ret. Highest placing foreigner at Sao Paolo and took down MVP at Winter Arena. Ret has said he'd be willing to go back to Korea to give it another try and a code S seed could be just the incentive to push him over the fence. Polt and other Koreans are no-no, they can qualify the normal way. The other seed can go to Naniwa or Huk. Don't bother with Stephano cuz he already said he's not interested in Korea.
Koreans can qualify the normal way? SO CAN FOREIGNERS. It's a Korean tournament. It shouldn't be a Korean's fault if they kick ass at an international tournament and rack up impressive wins that because they are Korean they can't get a seed.
Naniwa and Huk both live in Korea. Huk can qualify the normal way. So can Naniwa.
Grubby would be awesome for Code A at least. I really want him to try for the GSL(Same with Stephano)
But other than Polt i don´t think anybody else should get Code S. Meh, maybe Naniwa or Huk because people seem to like those foreigner seeds but its not really something I´d clamor
On February 27 2012 11:33 Stoffelhase wrote: maybe the consider a "redemption" for naniwa, giving him the code s seed for his 2011 results and his lately way better behaviour.
I don't know if there is a less offensive way to say this, but he doesn't need to be given another GSL seed, particularly not code S.
On February 27 2012 12:08 red4ce wrote: I hope they give one to Ret. Highest placing foreigner at Sao Paolo and took down MVP at Winter Arena. Ret has said he'd be willing to go back to Korea to give it another try and a code S seed could be just the incentive to push him over the fence. Polt and other Koreans are no-no, they can qualify the normal way. The other seed can go to Naniwa or Huk. Don't bother with Stephano cuz he already said he's not interested in Korea.
Koreans can qualify the normal way? SO CAN FOREIGNERS. It's a Korean tournament. It shouldn't be a Korean's fault if they kick ass at an international tournament and rack up impressive wins that because they are Korean they can't get a seed.
Naniwa and Huk both live in Korea. Huk can qualify the normal way. So can Naniwa.
Let's call a spade a spade. The code S seeds are basically Starcraft affirmative action. Without them we'd never see foreigners in the GSL. People who otherwise don't watch the GSL will watch when foreigners are playing. Polt doesn't really have that kind of effect. You could maybe make the argument for Hero or Puma but that's about it as far as Koreans go.
On February 27 2012 12:08 red4ce wrote: I hope they give one to Ret. Highest placing foreigner at Sao Paolo and took down MVP at Winter Arena. Ret has said he'd be willing to go back to Korea to give it another try and a code S seed could be just the incentive to push him over the fence. Polt and other Koreans are no-no, they can qualify the normal way. The other seed can go to Naniwa or Huk. Don't bother with Stephano cuz he already said he's not interested in Korea.
Koreans can qualify the normal way? SO CAN FOREIGNERS. It's a Korean tournament. It shouldn't be a Korean's fault if they kick ass at an international tournament and rack up impressive wins that because they are Korean they can't get a seed.
Naniwa and Huk both live in Korea. Huk can qualify the normal way. So can Naniwa.
Let's call a spade a spade. The code S seeds are basically Starcraft affirmative action. Without them we'd never see foreigners in the GSL. People who otherwise don't watch the GSL will watch when foreigners are playing. Polt doesn't really have that kind of effect. You could maybe make the argument for Hero or Puma but that's about it as far as Koreans go.
So what exactly is more enjoyable for these people? Watching a foreigner that is clearly over is league getting 2-0'd. Or watching a korean actually putting up a fight? Cause watching your "idols" getting absolutely destroyed doesn't seem fun.
Charity seeds is bad enough, but when you actually limit it to the skin color of a person there is something severely wrong around here.
On February 27 2012 12:08 red4ce wrote: I hope they give one to Ret. Highest placing foreigner at Sao Paolo and took down MVP at Winter Arena. Ret has said he'd be willing to go back to Korea to give it another try and a code S seed could be just the incentive to push him over the fence. Polt and other Koreans are no-no, they can qualify the normal way. The other seed can go to Naniwa or Huk. Don't bother with Stephano cuz he already said he's not interested in Korea.
Koreans can qualify the normal way? SO CAN FOREIGNERS. It's a Korean tournament. It shouldn't be a Korean's fault if they kick ass at an international tournament and rack up impressive wins that because they are Korean they can't get a seed.
Naniwa and Huk both live in Korea. Huk can qualify the normal way. So can Naniwa.
Let's call a spade a spade. The code S seeds are basically Starcraft affirmative action. Without them we'd never see foreigners in the GSL. People who otherwise don't watch the GSL will watch when foreigners are playing. Polt doesn't really have that kind of effect. You could maybe make the argument for Hero or Puma but that's about it as far as Koreans go.
So what exactly is more enjoyable for these people? Watching a foreigner that is clearly over is league getting 2-0'd. Or watching a korean actually putting up a fight? Cause watching your "idols" getting absolutely destroyed doesn't seem fun.
Foreigners can and have beaten code S Koreans before. Unfortunately in recent seasons foreigners have had the misfortune of drawing their worst matchup (Sen, Sase) or just straight up underperforming (Idra, Naniwa).
A good idea now might be to give mkp an auto code s seed and then give someone else his up and down like a polt or huk so they can earn there code s back or get a code a seed which I think is fair
No one mentioned deserves a code S spot. That said, if they were given a code A spot, I would go with Violet and <insert foreigner to be roflstomped here>. As long as it isnt Naniwa, Huk, or Idra, I dont care.
Stop with the code S freebies Boss Chae. Institute a 3 strikes youre out policy so we quit seeing the same olds wasting slots that good players deserve.
On February 27 2012 12:08 red4ce wrote: I hope they give one to Ret. Highest placing foreigner at Sao Paolo and took down MVP at Winter Arena. Ret has said he'd be willing to go back to Korea to give it another try and a code S seed could be just the incentive to push him over the fence. Polt and other Koreans are no-no, they can qualify the normal way. The other seed can go to Naniwa or Huk. Don't bother with Stephano cuz he already said he's not interested in Korea.
Koreans can qualify the normal way? SO CAN FOREIGNERS. It's a Korean tournament. It shouldn't be a Korean's fault if they kick ass at an international tournament and rack up impressive wins that because they are Korean they can't get a seed.
Naniwa and Huk both live in Korea. Huk can qualify the normal way. So can Naniwa.
Let's call a spade a spade. The code S seeds are basically Starcraft affirmative action. Without them we'd never see foreigners in the GSL. People who otherwise don't watch the GSL will watch when foreigners are playing. Polt doesn't really have that kind of effect. You could maybe make the argument for Hero or Puma but that's about it as far as Koreans go.
So what exactly is more enjoyable for these people? Watching a foreigner that is clearly over is league getting 2-0'd. Or watching a korean actually putting up a fight? Cause watching your "idols" getting absolutely destroyed doesn't seem fun.
Foreigners can and have beaten code S Koreans before. Unfortunately in recent seasons foreigners have had the misfortune of drawing their worst matchup (Sen, Sase) or just straight up underperforming (Idra, Naniwa).
On February 27 2012 12:08 red4ce wrote: I hope they give one to Ret. Highest placing foreigner at Sao Paolo and took down MVP at Winter Arena. Ret has said he'd be willing to go back to Korea to give it another try and a code S seed could be just the incentive to push him over the fence. Polt and other Koreans are no-no, they can qualify the normal way. The other seed can go to Naniwa or Huk. Don't bother with Stephano cuz he already said he's not interested in Korea.
Koreans can qualify the normal way? SO CAN FOREIGNERS. It's a Korean tournament. It shouldn't be a Korean's fault if they kick ass at an international tournament and rack up impressive wins that because they are Korean they can't get a seed.
Naniwa and Huk both live in Korea. Huk can qualify the normal way. So can Naniwa.
Let's call a spade a spade. The code S seeds are basically Starcraft affirmative action. Without them we'd never see foreigners in the GSL. People who otherwise don't watch the GSL will watch when foreigners are playing. Polt doesn't really have that kind of effect. You could maybe make the argument for Hero or Puma but that's about it as far as Koreans go.
So what exactly is more enjoyable for these people? Watching a foreigner that is clearly over is league getting 2-0'd. Or watching a korean actually putting up a fight? Cause watching your "idols" getting absolutely destroyed doesn't seem fun.
Foreigners can and have beaten code S Koreans before. Unfortunately in recent seasons foreigners have had the misfortune of drawing their worst matchup (Sen, Sase) or just straight up underperforming (Idra, Naniwa).
You have not answered my question.
My point is that while it's easy to look back and say it was a waste of time for foreigners to get seeds because they just got stomped on, that does not mean losing badly is inevitable. I'm sure Huk fans and Jinro fans were elated back when they were making deep runs in code S. People watch foreigners in the hopes of seeing that kind of magical season again.
On February 27 2012 12:08 red4ce wrote: I hope they give one to Ret. Highest placing foreigner at Sao Paolo and took down MVP at Winter Arena. Ret has said he'd be willing to go back to Korea to give it another try and a code S seed could be just the incentive to push him over the fence. Polt and other Koreans are no-no, they can qualify the normal way. The other seed can go to Naniwa or Huk. Don't bother with Stephano cuz he already said he's not interested in Korea.
Koreans can qualify the normal way? SO CAN FOREIGNERS. It's a Korean tournament. It shouldn't be a Korean's fault if they kick ass at an international tournament and rack up impressive wins that because they are Korean they can't get a seed.
Naniwa and Huk both live in Korea. Huk can qualify the normal way. So can Naniwa.
Let's call a spade a spade. The code S seeds are basically Starcraft affirmative action. Without them we'd never see foreigners in the GSL. People who otherwise don't watch the GSL will watch when foreigners are playing. Polt doesn't really have that kind of effect. You could maybe make the argument for Hero or Puma but that's about it as far as Koreans go.
So what exactly is more enjoyable for these people? Watching a foreigner that is clearly over is league getting 2-0'd. Or watching a korean actually putting up a fight? Cause watching your "idols" getting absolutely destroyed doesn't seem fun.
Foreigners can and have beaten code S Koreans before. Unfortunately in recent seasons foreigners have had the misfortune of drawing their worst matchup (Sen, Sase) or just straight up underperforming (Idra, Naniwa).
You have not answered my question.
Your question is 100% irrelevant. "Enjoyment" has absolutely nothing to do with it. Neither does fun.
Foreigners bring in viewership numbers and membership buys, and you will get very, very few foreigners playing in the GSL if they have to invest months to get through the qualifiers, to Code A, to Code S, even assuming they can do all that without losing.
It has absolutely nothing to do with "colour of their skin", as you so ignorantly put it. It's about not naively believing that every player will want to uproot their lives to move to South Korea for extremely long periods of time.
On February 27 2012 12:08 red4ce wrote: I hope they give one to Ret. Highest placing foreigner at Sao Paolo and took down MVP at Winter Arena. Ret has said he'd be willing to go back to Korea to give it another try and a code S seed could be just the incentive to push him over the fence. Polt and other Koreans are no-no, they can qualify the normal way. The other seed can go to Naniwa or Huk. Don't bother with Stephano cuz he already said he's not interested in Korea.
Koreans can qualify the normal way? SO CAN FOREIGNERS. It's a Korean tournament. It shouldn't be a Korean's fault if they kick ass at an international tournament and rack up impressive wins that because they are Korean they can't get a seed.
Naniwa and Huk both live in Korea. Huk can qualify the normal way. So can Naniwa.
Indeed. Lots of respect to Jinro for purposely doing that and not even wanting a seed.
Don't forget that we'll also get IEM Hannover before the seeds need te be done so if we have a foreigner there that has a really good showing this can still change.
No foreigner can compete in Code S so please don't give it to a foreigner. Polt is the only person who deserves it because he is just so nice and smart and handsome. Overall the bracket at ASUS ROG wasn't nearly as tough as MLG but Polt was the only player to have a difficult bracket and win all the way to the finals. Plus he crushed in the finals.
Violet isn't a terrible choice either but I don't think he plans to go back to Korea anytime soon.
On February 26 2012 20:29 Grovbolle wrote: To pull in some foreigner money I guess that Stephano for instance (2nd in ROG and lots of good performances) could be a candidate
And fan favorites like Ret (did well in WB in MLG, vs MVP and other great players)..
I think giving HuK a seed would be a bit anticlimax as he has just lost his.
As far as I know, Stephano isn't willing to return to korea.
This, same for White-Ra. People need to stop mentioning them alrdy.
On February 27 2012 10:05 LuckoftheIrish wrote: There's not a lot of downside to inviting Stephano. If he doesn't accept, there are other equally-deserving players. If he does, you have easily the highest-profile foreign player you could have in the GSL.
Lol worthy indeed. Not saying Idra or HuK or better, but they are definitely more well known than Stephano. Heck Incontrol is more well known.
Stephano not accepting could be a good thing, depending on how Gom wants to handle the situation.
Think about it; if he accepts, they get a high-profile foreign player. If he doesn't, they have the opportunity to offer to that to whoever they want with the cover of 'Stephano declined and we had to find a replacement.' That justification can be used to invite damn near anyone.
Edit to cover your edit:
You misunderstand. It's not about being well-known. Huk and Idra have been in GSL before. They've had runs, they've gotten knocked out early... it's fair to say they have a lot of history with that particular tournament.
Stephano, though... He's clearly very skilled. He's also not especially respectful of Korea's place as the pinnacle of Starcraft. He's on record saying that he's not interested in going back there because he learned everything he could and can learn more in Europe. He comes across as a pretty arrogant guy (IMO) and that's an angle that can create a TON of drama and hype for GSL. He'd be new, he'd be the bad boy, the guy every Korean wants to take out, and he's the best foreign player who hasn't already competed and lost. That's a situation that creates drama and hype, which will turn into viewership.
And again. If he declines, then GSL can invite Taeja (or whoever) and when everyone goes "OMG TAEJA? WHY TAEJA?", they can say "well, Stephano declined and we had to find a substitute on short notice. That meant we had to invite a Korean and Taeja was the best choice." Or whatever justification for whoever they need. Could be used to provide cover for a potentially controversial invite.
Thats where our opinions differ. I don't think Stephano is that skilled at all, yet to win a single tournament.
On February 26 2012 20:29 Grovbolle wrote: To pull in some foreigner money I guess that Stephano for instance (2nd in ROG and lots of good performances) could be a candidate
And fan favorites like Ret (did well in WB in MLG, vs MVP and other great players)..
I think giving HuK a seed would be a bit anticlimax as he has just lost his.
As far as I know, Stephano isn't willing to return to korea.
This, same for White-Ra. People need to stop mentioning them alrdy.
On February 27 2012 10:05 LuckoftheIrish wrote: There's not a lot of downside to inviting Stephano. If he doesn't accept, there are other equally-deserving players. If he does, you have easily the highest-profile foreign player you could have in the GSL.
Lol worthy indeed. Not saying Idra or HuK or better, but they are definitely more well known than Stephano. Heck Incontrol is more well known.
Stephano not accepting could be a good thing, depending on how Gom wants to handle the situation.
Think about it; if he accepts, they get a high-profile foreign player. If he doesn't, they have the opportunity to offer to that to whoever they want with the cover of 'Stephano declined and we had to find a replacement.' That justification can be used to invite damn near anyone.
Edit to cover your edit:
You misunderstand. It's not about being well-known. Huk and Idra have been in GSL before. They've had runs, they've gotten knocked out early... it's fair to say they have a lot of history with that particular tournament.
Stephano, though... He's clearly very skilled. He's also not especially respectful of Korea's place as the pinnacle of Starcraft. He's on record saying that he's not interested in going back there because he learned everything he could and can learn more in Europe. He comes across as a pretty arrogant guy (IMO) and that's an angle that can create a TON of drama and hype for GSL. He'd be new, he'd be the bad boy, the guy every Korean wants to take out, and he's the best foreign player who hasn't already competed and lost. That's a situation that creates drama and hype, which will turn into viewership.
And again. If he declines, then GSL can invite Taeja (or whoever) and when everyone goes "OMG TAEJA? WHY TAEJA?", they can say "well, Stephano declined and we had to find a substitute on short notice. That meant we had to invite a Korean and Taeja was the best choice." Or whatever justification for whoever they need. Could be used to provide cover for a potentially controversial invite.
Thats where our opinions differ. I don't think Stephano is that skilled at all, yet to win a single tournament.
as a naniwa fan id actually like to see him try to qualify through Code A just to silence a lot of haters. Also dont think they should give out S seeds at all, just code A
Yes, the foreign seeds are basically affirmative action, and it is unfair.
But it is also necessary for the long term benefit of the sport. When you isolate the foreign and Korean scenes, the skill gap only grows until we have a BW situation, where a random Korean B-teamer can utterly outplay the best players of the foreigner scene.
Why is that an issue? Shouldn't the best players win? Yes, but it weakens the connection between the fans and the players. When most Korean players do not speak English, and thus have very little direct interaction with fans. The fanbase of SC2 is spread out all over the world, whereas the BW fanbase is now concentrated in Korea. It's hard as a fan to connect with someone who does not speak the same langauge as you and comes from a whole different cultural background.
SC2, if it wants to survive, needs to keep that international fanbase going strong. To be frank, I doubt SC2's Korean fanbase is enough to sustain the GSL, especially when BW is so much more popular. Foreigner seeds bring in more viewers, because people love these ideals of "diversity" and the "underdog" foreigner.
The GSL organizers know this. They gave seeds to Sen and Idra because these two players can bring in viewers. If it were only based off of foreign tournament results, Hero and Puma would have gotten the seeds. That is why I am a bit skeptical that Polt will get the seed, even though he has clearly earned it.
Furthermore, imagine you are a high level foreign progamer. You practice hours each day, but you still barely make enough to live off of, if you make enough to live off of. You expect them to move all the way to Korea to participate in the Code A qualifiers? Some players do, such as Jinro and carn, and I applaud them for their efforts, but they have spent so much time for so little return. Most players will not. It's basically a single elimination tournament that is nevertheless still very stacked, and if you mess up, it's another 2 months before the next one comes around.
We as a community lament the skill gap between foreign players and the Koreans, yet we want our players to earn their spots at the top. That would be nice, and I would love to see it. But I do not think that will happen unless we give the foreign pros seeds. It's a necessary evil in my opinion.
On February 26 2012 20:29 Grovbolle wrote: To pull in some foreigner money I guess that Stephano for instance (2nd in ROG and lots of good performances) could be a candidate
And fan favorites like Ret (did well in WB in MLG, vs MVP and other great players)..
I think giving HuK a seed would be a bit anticlimax as he has just lost his.
As far as I know, Stephano isn't willing to return to korea.
This, same for White-Ra. People need to stop mentioning them alrdy.
On February 27 2012 10:05 LuckoftheIrish wrote: There's not a lot of downside to inviting Stephano. If he doesn't accept, there are other equally-deserving players. If he does, you have easily the highest-profile foreign player you could have in the GSL.
Lol worthy indeed. Not saying Idra or HuK or better, but they are definitely more well known than Stephano. Heck Incontrol is more well known.
Stephano not accepting could be a good thing, depending on how Gom wants to handle the situation.
Think about it; if he accepts, they get a high-profile foreign player. If he doesn't, they have the opportunity to offer to that to whoever they want with the cover of 'Stephano declined and we had to find a replacement.' That justification can be used to invite damn near anyone.
Edit to cover your edit:
You misunderstand. It's not about being well-known. Huk and Idra have been in GSL before. They've had runs, they've gotten knocked out early... it's fair to say they have a lot of history with that particular tournament.
Stephano, though... He's clearly very skilled. He's also not especially respectful of Korea's place as the pinnacle of Starcraft. He's on record saying that he's not interested in going back there because he learned everything he could and can learn more in Europe. He comes across as a pretty arrogant guy (IMO) and that's an angle that can create a TON of drama and hype for GSL. He'd be new, he'd be the bad boy, the guy every Korean wants to take out, and he's the best foreign player who hasn't already competed and lost. That's a situation that creates drama and hype, which will turn into viewership.
And again. If he declines, then GSL can invite Taeja (or whoever) and when everyone goes "OMG TAEJA? WHY TAEJA?", they can say "well, Stephano declined and we had to find a substitute on short notice. That meant we had to invite a Korean and Taeja was the best choice." Or whatever justification for whoever they need. Could be used to provide cover for a potentially controversial invite.
Thats where our opinions differ. I don't think Stephano is that skilled at all, yet to win a single tournament.
That's also where you're objectively wrong. He's won:
SHOUTCRAFT, beating Thorzain and Grubby.
IPL's UK qualifier, beating Grubby, DreAm, Sase and TAiLS.
ESWC 2011, beating Grubby, MaNa and MarineKingPrime among others.
IPL 3, beating Socke, Revival, Puzzle and MMA in qualifiers and HuK, Boxer, viOLet, Inori, TheSTC and Lucky, among others, in the main tournament.
He also came second at Assembly, beating PuMa, MaNa, NightEnd, Happy and ReaL.
So whether you're a fan or not (I'm really not) it's impossible to deny that he's a damned good player with solid results.
I thought the whole point of the seed was to infuse some international talent into the GSL. I don't see why they should be inviting local Koreans who have already dropped out. The international players, not being from Korea, do not have the opportunity to qualify, thus the creation of the international seed.
On February 27 2012 10:21 yawnoC wrote: Polt and DeMusliM.
Ret or Naniwa are also options.
The only strong player (Code A-S level) DeMusliM has beaten @MLG Winter Arena was Nestea oO I can't see how this qualifies him as a Code S invite lol. He'll prolly get a Code A/Up-Down Spot but please no Code S spot >_<
On February 26 2012 21:08 TheEconomist wrote: I don't get naniwa. Loses to lucky i think 2 code A's on the trot. Beats Nestea repeatedly... And Leenock for that matter
Lucky got several weeks to prepare for his match, Nestea like 15 minutes. Access to coaches and time to preperation are a usefull talent toi have ;p
And give Polt a spot pls, he played soo well
You realize naniwa was in the same situation as his opponents in both of those situations, right?
Oh? Quantic/Dignitas have coaches who analyse potential weakneses in they play of upcoming opponents? Good to know. For a Tournament like MLG/IEM/NASL/IPL it's imo more important to be solid all around as you usually have not very much time to prepare and play against lots of different players/playstyles. By looking at the results of the players who were seeded into Code A/S I think it's safe to say that most if not all of them are much worse in preparing for an specific match/player than their korean counterparts. This is probably due to not having teamhouses with coaches and the fact that it's not that important in most high profile foreign tournaments.
On February 27 2012 13:36 Zooper31 wrote: Thats where our opinions differ. I don't think Stephano is that skilled at all, yet to win a single tournament.
You couldn't be more wrong! He's probably won the most tournaments (excluding smaller online cups) out of any foreigner.
On February 27 2012 12:08 red4ce wrote: I hope they give one to Ret. Highest placing foreigner at Sao Paolo and took down MVP at Winter Arena. Ret has said he'd be willing to go back to Korea to give it another try and a code S seed could be just the incentive to push him over the fence. Polt and other Koreans are no-no, they can qualify the normal way. The other seed can go to Naniwa or Huk. Don't bother with Stephano cuz he already said he's not interested in Korea.
Koreans can qualify the normal way? SO CAN FOREIGNERS. It's a Korean tournament. It shouldn't be a Korean's fault if they kick ass at an international tournament and rack up impressive wins that because they are Korean they can't get a seed.
Naniwa and Huk both live in Korea. Huk can qualify the normal way. So can Naniwa.
We need to make pro gaming a viable career, and many pros don't have the means to travel to Korea for the qualifiers. For a Korean player it can be as simple as taking a day playing in the qualifiers a bus ride away, whereas a foreign pro needs to arrange transportation and lodging, as well as possibly visas to do the same.
Yes, Huk and Naniwa live in Korea but they aren't the only pros who have a shot at the seed. Dimaga and Kas have had solid results, but you can't expect them to go to Korea for the Code A prelims (even the Code A prize money would barely cover their costs).
Finally, we should not be miserly towards foreigners when giving out these seeds just because Sen and idra underperformed. They are a very small sample size. The new system has been out only for 1 season thus far, don't be so quick to demand changes. Wait and see
On February 27 2012 13:36 Zooper31 wrote: Thats where our opinions differ. I don't think Stephano is that skilled at all, yet to win a single tournament.
You couldn't be more wrong! He's probably won the most tournaments (excluding smaller online cups) out of any foreigner.
Probably troll or something, Stephano has earned most prizemoney out of any foreigner and is currently one of the best also. -_-
On February 26 2012 20:29 Grovbolle wrote: To pull in some foreigner money I guess that Stephano for instance (2nd in ROG and lots of good performances) could be a candidate
And fan favorites like Ret (did well in WB in MLG, vs MVP and other great players)..
I think giving HuK a seed would be a bit anticlimax as he has just lost his.
As far as I know, Stephano isn't willing to return to korea.
This, same for White-Ra. People need to stop mentioning them alrdy.
On February 27 2012 10:05 LuckoftheIrish wrote: There's not a lot of downside to inviting Stephano. If he doesn't accept, there are other equally-deserving players. If he does, you have easily the highest-profile foreign player you could have in the GSL.
Lol worthy indeed. Not saying Idra or HuK or better, but they are definitely more well known than Stephano. Heck Incontrol is more well known.
Stephano not accepting could be a good thing, depending on how Gom wants to handle the situation.
Think about it; if he accepts, they get a high-profile foreign player. If he doesn't, they have the opportunity to offer to that to whoever they want with the cover of 'Stephano declined and we had to find a replacement.' That justification can be used to invite damn near anyone.
Edit to cover your edit:
You misunderstand. It's not about being well-known. Huk and Idra have been in GSL before. They've had runs, they've gotten knocked out early... it's fair to say they have a lot of history with that particular tournament.
Stephano, though... He's clearly very skilled. He's also not especially respectful of Korea's place as the pinnacle of Starcraft. He's on record saying that he's not interested in going back there because he learned everything he could and can learn more in Europe. He comes across as a pretty arrogant guy (IMO) and that's an angle that can create a TON of drama and hype for GSL. He'd be new, he'd be the bad boy, the guy every Korean wants to take out, and he's the best foreign player who hasn't already competed and lost. That's a situation that creates drama and hype, which will turn into viewership.
And again. If he declines, then GSL can invite Taeja (or whoever) and when everyone goes "OMG TAEJA? WHY TAEJA?", they can say "well, Stephano declined and we had to find a substitute on short notice. That meant we had to invite a Korean and Taeja was the best choice." Or whatever justification for whoever they need. Could be used to provide cover for a potentially controversial invite.
Thats where our opinions differ. I don't think Stephano is that skilled at all, yet to win a single tournament.
ipl3 was a pretty big tournament
polt deserves it more than anyone, though. i really hope he gets it. marineking needs one if he somehow doesnt beat killer
On February 27 2012 13:49 Bagration wrote: Yes, the foreign seeds are basically affirmative action, and it is unfair.
But it is also necessary for the long term benefit of the sport. When you isolate the foreign and Korean scenes, the skill gap only grows until we have a BW situation, where a random Korean B-teamer can utterly outplay the best players of the foreigner scene.
Why is that an issue? Shouldn't the best players win? Yes, but it weakens the connection between the fans and the players. When most Korean players do not speak English, and thus have very little direct interaction with fans. The fanbase of SC2 is spread out all over the world, whereas the BW fanbase is now concentrated in Korea. It's hard as a fan to connect with someone who does not speak the same langauge as you and comes from a whole different cultural background.
SC2, if it wants to survive, needs to keep that international fanbase going strong. To be frank, I doubt SC2's Korean fanbase is enough to sustain the GSL, especially when BW is so much more popular. Foreigner seeds bring in more viewers, because people love these ideals of "diversity" and the "underdog" foreigner.
The GSL organizers know this. They gave seeds to Sen and Idra because these two players can bring in viewers. If it were only based off of foreign tournament results, Hero and Puma would have gotten the seeds. That is why I am a bit skeptical that Polt will get the seed, even though he has clearly earned it.
Furthermore, imagine you are a high level foreign progamer. You practice hours each day, but you still barely make enough to live off of, if you make enough to live off of. You expect them to move all the way to Korea to participate in the Code A qualifiers? Some players do, such as Jinro and carn, and I applaud them for their efforts, but they have spent so much time for so little return. Most players will not. It's basically a single elimination tournament that is nevertheless still very stacked, and if you mess up, it's another 2 months before the next one comes around.
We as a community lament the skill gap between foreign players and the Koreans, yet we want our players to earn their spots at the top. That would be nice, and I would love to see it. But I do not think that will happen unless we give the foreign pros seeds. It's a necessary evil in my opinion.
The scenes are only isolated because the foreigners keep losing. There are loads of foreigners living in Korea full time and if they were skilled enough to actually win games I'd imagine even more would.
On February 26 2012 20:29 Grovbolle wrote: To pull in some foreigner money I guess that Stephano for instance (2nd in ROG and lots of good performances) could be a candidate
And fan favorites like Ret (did well in WB in MLG, vs MVP and other great players)..
I think giving HuK a seed would be a bit anticlimax as he has just lost his.
As far as I know, Stephano isn't willing to return to korea.
This, same for White-Ra. People need to stop mentioning them alrdy.
On February 27 2012 10:05 LuckoftheIrish wrote: There's not a lot of downside to inviting Stephano. If he doesn't accept, there are other equally-deserving players. If he does, you have easily the highest-profile foreign player you could have in the GSL.
Lol worthy indeed. Not saying Idra or HuK or better, but they are definitely more well known than Stephano. Heck Incontrol is more well known.
Stephano not accepting could be a good thing, depending on how Gom wants to handle the situation.
Think about it; if he accepts, they get a high-profile foreign player. If he doesn't, they have the opportunity to offer to that to whoever they want with the cover of 'Stephano declined and we had to find a replacement.' That justification can be used to invite damn near anyone.
Edit to cover your edit:
You misunderstand. It's not about being well-known. Huk and Idra have been in GSL before. They've had runs, they've gotten knocked out early... it's fair to say they have a lot of history with that particular tournament.
Stephano, though... He's clearly very skilled. He's also not especially respectful of Korea's place as the pinnacle of Starcraft. He's on record saying that he's not interested in going back there because he learned everything he could and can learn more in Europe. He comes across as a pretty arrogant guy (IMO) and that's an angle that can create a TON of drama and hype for GSL. He'd be new, he'd be the bad boy, the guy every Korean wants to take out, and he's the best foreign player who hasn't already competed and lost. That's a situation that creates drama and hype, which will turn into viewership.
And again. If he declines, then GSL can invite Taeja (or whoever) and when everyone goes "OMG TAEJA? WHY TAEJA?", they can say "well, Stephano declined and we had to find a substitute on short notice. That meant we had to invite a Korean and Taeja was the best choice." Or whatever justification for whoever they need. Could be used to provide cover for a potentially controversial invite.
Thats where our opinions differ. I don't think Stephano is that skilled at all, yet to win a single tournament.
That's also where you're objectively wrong. He's won:
SHOUTCRAFT, beating Thorzain and Grubby.
IPL's UK qualifier, beating Grubby, DreAm, Sase and TAiLS.
ESWC 2011, beating Grubby, MaNa and MarineKingPrime among others.
IPL 3, beating Socke, Revival, Puzzle and MMA in qualifiers and HuK, Boxer, viOLet, Inori, TheSTC and Lucky, among others, in the main tournament.
He also came second at Assembly, beating PuMa, MaNa, NightEnd, Happy and ReaL.
So whether you're a fan or not (I'm really not) it's impossible to deny that he's a damned good player with solid results.
I think the bolded win over MMA is the only win over an at the time Code S player and it was a meaningless game where both players had already qualified and was online.
Stephano is obviously really good but he's not really proven he's Code S level and I see no reason he shouldn't be made to win his spot in Code S.
If he's as good as his fanboys think he wouldn't struggle in Code A.
On February 27 2012 12:08 red4ce wrote: I hope they give one to Ret. Highest placing foreigner at Sao Paolo and took down MVP at Winter Arena. Ret has said he'd be willing to go back to Korea to give it another try and a code S seed could be just the incentive to push him over the fence. Polt and other Koreans are no-no, they can qualify the normal way. The other seed can go to Naniwa or Huk. Don't bother with Stephano cuz he already said he's not interested in Korea.
Koreans can qualify the normal way? SO CAN FOREIGNERS. It's a Korean tournament. It shouldn't be a Korean's fault if they kick ass at an international tournament and rack up impressive wins that because they are Korean they can't get a seed.
Naniwa and Huk both live in Korea. Huk can qualify the normal way. So can Naniwa.
We need to make pro gaming a viable career, and many pros don't have the means to travel to Korea for the qualifiers. For a Korean player it can be as simple as taking a day playing in the qualifiers a bus ride away, whereas a foreign pro needs to arrange transportation and lodging, as well as possibly visas to do the same.
Yes, Huk and Naniwa live in Korea but they aren't the only pros who have a shot at the seed. Dimaga and Kas have had solid results, but you can't expect them to go to Korea for the Code A prelims (even the Code A prize money would barely cover their costs).
Finally, we should not be miserly towards foreigners when giving out these seeds just because Sen and idra underperformed. They are a very small sample size. The new system has been out only for 1 season thus far, don't be so quick to demand changes. Wait and see
They have teams. Most of those players are paid a salary and if they're not they could certainly find a team who could pay them a salary.
On February 29 2012 19:29 iky43210 wrote: wasted to give to naniwa, give it to someone who actually stands a chance
Kas, Stephano, or Sen are good candidates. Maybe nerchio if he would stop sucking so hard at lan events
You are kidding right? Of all of those names only Stephano has a better win record against koreans.
what? Kas has not participate in GSL, Sen was the ONLY foreigner out of 6 or so that participated that remained in code A and not get knocked out (idra, morrow, huk, xigua, mcsed). Just that feat alone puts him far better suited than Naniwa had ever achieved in GSL
you do realize Naniwa has a massive 1-11 record in GSL right? Sen is far more qualified than Naniwa, and Kas and Nerchio both has far more potential if Nerchio can fix his lan problem
naniwa may have a good record against koreans in foreign tournaments like MLG, IPL etc. He did really well in MLG winter arena given how extremely competitive it is. But when he enters the GSL stage he just chokes. we need new faces in there, no more disappointing ones
On February 29 2012 19:29 iky43210 wrote: wasted to give to naniwa, give it to someone who actually stands a chance
Kas, Stephano, or Sen are good candidates. Maybe nerchio if he would stop sucking so hard at lan events
You are kidding right? Of all of those names only Stephano has a better win record against koreans.
what? Kas has not participate in GSL, Sen was the ONLY foreigner out of 6 or so that participated that remained in code A and not get knocked out (idra, morrow, huk, xigua, mcsed). Just that feat alone puts him far better suited than Naniwa had ever achieved in GSL
you do realize Naniwa has a massive 1-11 record in GSL right? Sen is far more qualified than Naniwa, and Kas and Nerchio both has far more potential if Nerchio can fix his lan problem
naniwa may have a good record against koreans in foreign tournaments like MLG, IPL etc. He did really well in MLG winter arena given how extremely competitive it is. But when he enters the GSL stage he just chokes. we need new faces in there, no more disappointing ones
LOL he doesn't choke. He's been struggling with PvZ ever since he got there, it was always his weakest matchup especially against abusive zerg builds. This cost him mlg providence against FXO Leenock and two of his code a games against FXO Lucky, both these players play an abusive style in PvZ. Now MLG Winter arena has proved that he has learn how to defend against that style. Like everybody knows that naniwa had an awful pvz, before he went to Korea he had trouble beating foreign zergs even!
On February 26 2012 20:29 Grovbolle wrote: To pull in some foreigner money I guess that Stephano for instance (2nd in ROG and lots of good performances) could be a candidate
And fan favorites like Ret (did well in WB in MLG, vs MVP and other great players)..
I think giving HuK a seed would be a bit anticlimax as he has just lost his.
As far as I know, Stephano isn't willing to return to korea.
This, same for White-Ra. People need to stop mentioning them alrdy.
On February 27 2012 10:05 LuckoftheIrish wrote: There's not a lot of downside to inviting Stephano. If he doesn't accept, there are other equally-deserving players. If he does, you have easily the highest-profile foreign player you could have in the GSL.
Lol worthy indeed. Not saying Idra or HuK or better, but they are definitely more well known than Stephano. Heck Incontrol is more well known.
Stephano not accepting could be a good thing, depending on how Gom wants to handle the situation.
Think about it; if he accepts, they get a high-profile foreign player. If he doesn't, they have the opportunity to offer to that to whoever they want with the cover of 'Stephano declined and we had to find a replacement.' That justification can be used to invite damn near anyone.
Edit to cover your edit:
You misunderstand. It's not about being well-known. Huk and Idra have been in GSL before. They've had runs, they've gotten knocked out early... it's fair to say they have a lot of history with that particular tournament.
Stephano, though... He's clearly very skilled. He's also not especially respectful of Korea's place as the pinnacle of Starcraft. He's on record saying that he's not interested in going back there because he learned everything he could and can learn more in Europe. He comes across as a pretty arrogant guy (IMO) and that's an angle that can create a TON of drama and hype for GSL. He'd be new, he'd be the bad boy, the guy every Korean wants to take out, and he's the best foreign player who hasn't already competed and lost. That's a situation that creates drama and hype, which will turn into viewership.
And again. If he declines, then GSL can invite Taeja (or whoever) and when everyone goes "OMG TAEJA? WHY TAEJA?", they can say "well, Stephano declined and we had to find a substitute on short notice. That meant we had to invite a Korean and Taeja was the best choice." Or whatever justification for whoever they need. Could be used to provide cover for a potentially controversial invite.
Thats where our opinions differ. I don't think Stephano is that skilled at all, yet to win a single tournament.
That's also where you're objectively wrong. He's won:
SHOUTCRAFT, beating Thorzain and Grubby.
IPL's UK qualifier, beating Grubby, DreAm, Sase and TAiLS.
ESWC 2011, beating Grubby, MaNa and MarineKingPrime among others.
IPL 3, beating Socke, Revival, Puzzle and MMA in qualifiers and HuK, Boxer, viOLet, Inori, TheSTC and Lucky, among others, in the main tournament.
He also came second at Assembly, beating PuMa, MaNa, NightEnd, Happy and ReaL.
So whether you're a fan or not (I'm really not) it's impossible to deny that he's a damned good player with solid results.
I think the bolded win over MMA is the only win over an at the time Code S player and it was a meaningless game where both players had already qualified and was online.
Stephano is obviously really good but he's not really proven he's Code S level and I see no reason he shouldn't be made to win his spot in Code S.
If he's as good as his fanboys think he wouldn't struggle in Code A.
Compare lucky and Stephano in Assemply thats all i got to say to you. They played the same opponent and the replays is there.
And if you do you can see a gigantic skill difference and is not like Lucky is a bad player. He did qualify to code S last season and played code S this season.
On February 26 2012 20:29 Grovbolle wrote: To pull in some foreigner money I guess that Stephano for instance (2nd in ROG and lots of good performances) could be a candidate
And fan favorites like Ret (did well in WB in MLG, vs MVP and other great players)..
I think giving HuK a seed would be a bit anticlimax as he has just lost his.
As far as I know, Stephano isn't willing to return to korea.
This, same for White-Ra. People need to stop mentioning them alrdy.
On February 27 2012 10:05 LuckoftheIrish wrote: There's not a lot of downside to inviting Stephano. If he doesn't accept, there are other equally-deserving players. If he does, you have easily the highest-profile foreign player you could have in the GSL.
Lol worthy indeed. Not saying Idra or HuK or better, but they are definitely more well known than Stephano. Heck Incontrol is more well known.
Stephano not accepting could be a good thing, depending on how Gom wants to handle the situation.
Think about it; if he accepts, they get a high-profile foreign player. If he doesn't, they have the opportunity to offer to that to whoever they want with the cover of 'Stephano declined and we had to find a replacement.' That justification can be used to invite damn near anyone.
Edit to cover your edit:
You misunderstand. It's not about being well-known. Huk and Idra have been in GSL before. They've had runs, they've gotten knocked out early... it's fair to say they have a lot of history with that particular tournament.
Stephano, though... He's clearly very skilled. He's also not especially respectful of Korea's place as the pinnacle of Starcraft. He's on record saying that he's not interested in going back there because he learned everything he could and can learn more in Europe. He comes across as a pretty arrogant guy (IMO) and that's an angle that can create a TON of drama and hype for GSL. He'd be new, he'd be the bad boy, the guy every Korean wants to take out, and he's the best foreign player who hasn't already competed and lost. That's a situation that creates drama and hype, which will turn into viewership.
And again. If he declines, then GSL can invite Taeja (or whoever) and when everyone goes "OMG TAEJA? WHY TAEJA?", they can say "well, Stephano declined and we had to find a substitute on short notice. That meant we had to invite a Korean and Taeja was the best choice." Or whatever justification for whoever they need. Could be used to provide cover for a potentially controversial invite.
Thats where our opinions differ. I don't think Stephano is that skilled at all, yet to win a single tournament.
That's also where you're objectively wrong. He's won:
SHOUTCRAFT, beating Thorzain and Grubby.
IPL's UK qualifier, beating Grubby, DreAm, Sase and TAiLS.
ESWC 2011, beating Grubby, MaNa and MarineKingPrime among others.
IPL 3, beating Socke, Revival, Puzzle and MMA in qualifiers and HuK, Boxer, viOLet, Inori, TheSTC and Lucky, among others, in the main tournament.
He also came second at Assembly, beating PuMa, MaNa, NightEnd, Happy and ReaL.
So whether you're a fan or not (I'm really not) it's impossible to deny that he's a damned good player with solid results.
I think the bolded win over MMA is the only win over an at the time Code S player and it was a meaningless game where both players had already qualified and was online.
Stephano is obviously really good but he's not really proven he's Code S level and I see no reason he shouldn't be made to win his spot in Code S.
If he's as good as his fanboys think he wouldn't struggle in Code A.
Compare lucky and Stephano in Assemply thats all i got to say to you. They played the same opponent and the replays is there.
And if you do you can see a gigantic skill difference and is not like Lucky is a bad player. He did qualify to code S last season and played code S this season.
You will be unhappy if you take a look at other Z's that have 3-0'd Puma. IEM Guangzhou... You should note that Seraphone's point stands, there is a lack of proof, which makes you resort to arguments that can be ridiculed easily.
On February 29 2012 20:27 namste wrote: If Idra gets a seed again for nothing, I'll set myself on fire.
hey , i never liked Idra , but i know 2 things about him ... he brings more viewers and interest to the games , at least he did , it may be fading a little bit...
I dont want to be rude , but he really should try Terran , he played terran in Broodwar and probably has tried in sc2 .. He quits to many games , and rages too much about races , so terran fits him better than anyone...
As for the seeds , if they only want foreigners , call Naniwa , Stephano , Huk or Idra !
if they want Koreans call polt and another good player/ex champion that falls to Code B or A. (if leenock loses up/down for example )
I think they should try to give 2 spots to BW current pros ( good ones like jaedong) , that would bring great publicity for SC2 in Korea ..
On March 01 2012 03:17 Forikorder wrote: im pretty sure GSL will only seed foreigners since koreans have there shot to get into Code S and fail becuase theyre not code S level
there interested in bringing in more viewers and bringing in foriengers bring in those viewers and potential for more foreign sponsorshi[p
dr. chae already stated
code s seeds will be given with no regard to nationality
Just give the seeds to high level Koreans that fell from code s/a recently (Polt, Bomber,...) or to some good Koreans that couldn't show their skill in GSL but are good if they want an underdog (life,...)
Otherwise, if they want to give one or two of them to foreigners give it Huk or Naniwa, but not sure if it's a good idea
On February 29 2012 20:27 namste wrote: If Idra gets a seed again for nothing, I'll set myself on fire.
This struck me as really, really funny and I'm not sure why. Well played though.
Polt on any measurable scale deserves the seed. The other one should probably go to Violet, Stephano, or Huk, in that order. Violet's IEM win over Supernova was pretty impressive, Stephano would probably decline but he always produces top results, and Huk, despite the relatively easy bracket, still produced a solid result at MLG.
On February 29 2012 19:29 iky43210 wrote: wasted to give to naniwa, give it to someone who actually stands a chance
Kas, Stephano, or Sen are good candidates. Maybe nerchio if he would stop sucking so hard at lan events
You are kidding right? Of all of those names only Stephano has a better win record against koreans.
what? Kas has not participate in GSL, Sen was the ONLY foreigner out of 6 or so that participated that remained in code A and not get knocked out (idra, morrow, huk, xigua, mcsed). Just that feat alone puts him far better suited than Naniwa had ever achieved in GSL
Sen has a guaranteed spot in (atleast) Code A next season as he'll play the up/down matches I think. I don't see why he should get a Code S spot again :/
Naniwa and Polt dont know why people think violet deserves it? he won iem when there was barely any good players there... only good one there was supernova and thats it
On February 26 2012 20:29 Grovbolle wrote: To pull in some foreigner money I guess that Stephano for instance (2nd in ROG and lots of good performances) could be a candidate
And fan favorites like Ret (did well in WB in MLG, vs MVP and other great players)..
I think giving HuK a seed would be a bit anticlimax as he has just lost his.
As far as I know, Stephano isn't willing to return to korea.
This, same for White-Ra. People need to stop mentioning them alrdy.
On February 27 2012 10:05 LuckoftheIrish wrote: There's not a lot of downside to inviting Stephano. If he doesn't accept, there are other equally-deserving players. If he does, you have easily the highest-profile foreign player you could have in the GSL.
Lol worthy indeed. Not saying Idra or HuK or better, but they are definitely more well known than Stephano. Heck Incontrol is more well known.
Stephano not accepting could be a good thing, depending on how Gom wants to handle the situation.
Think about it; if he accepts, they get a high-profile foreign player. If he doesn't, they have the opportunity to offer to that to whoever they want with the cover of 'Stephano declined and we had to find a replacement.' That justification can be used to invite damn near anyone.
Edit to cover your edit:
You misunderstand. It's not about being well-known. Huk and Idra have been in GSL before. They've had runs, they've gotten knocked out early... it's fair to say they have a lot of history with that particular tournament.
Stephano, though... He's clearly very skilled. He's also not especially respectful of Korea's place as the pinnacle of Starcraft. He's on record saying that he's not interested in going back there because he learned everything he could and can learn more in Europe. He comes across as a pretty arrogant guy (IMO) and that's an angle that can create a TON of drama and hype for GSL. He'd be new, he'd be the bad boy, the guy every Korean wants to take out, and he's the best foreign player who hasn't already competed and lost. That's a situation that creates drama and hype, which will turn into viewership.
And again. If he declines, then GSL can invite Taeja (or whoever) and when everyone goes "OMG TAEJA? WHY TAEJA?", they can say "well, Stephano declined and we had to find a substitute on short notice. That meant we had to invite a Korean and Taeja was the best choice." Or whatever justification for whoever they need. Could be used to provide cover for a potentially controversial invite.
Thats where our opinions differ. I don't think Stephano is that skilled at all, yet to win a single tournament.
That's also where you're objectively wrong. He's won:
SHOUTCRAFT, beating Thorzain and Grubby.
IPL's UK qualifier, beating Grubby, DreAm, Sase and TAiLS.
ESWC 2011, beating Grubby, MaNa and MarineKingPrime among others.
IPL 3, beating Socke, Revival, Puzzle and MMA in qualifiers and HuK, Boxer, viOLet, Inori, TheSTC and Lucky, among others, in the main tournament.
He also came second at Assembly, beating PuMa, MaNa, NightEnd, Happy and ReaL.
So whether you're a fan or not (I'm really not) it's impossible to deny that he's a damned good player with solid results.
I think the bolded win over MMA is the only win over an at the time Code S player and it was a meaningless game where both players had already qualified and was online.
Stephano is obviously really good but he's not really proven he's Code S level and I see no reason he shouldn't be made to win his spot in Code S.
If he's as good as his fanboys think he wouldn't struggle in Code A.
If Stephano doesn't stand a chance in code S then no foreigner does
On February 26 2012 20:29 Grovbolle wrote: To pull in some foreigner money I guess that Stephano for instance (2nd in ROG and lots of good performances) could be a candidate
And fan favorites like Ret (did well in WB in MLG, vs MVP and other great players)..
I think giving HuK a seed would be a bit anticlimax as he has just lost his.
As far as I know, Stephano isn't willing to return to korea.
This, same for White-Ra. People need to stop mentioning them alrdy.
On February 27 2012 10:05 LuckoftheIrish wrote: There's not a lot of downside to inviting Stephano. If he doesn't accept, there are other equally-deserving players. If he does, you have easily the highest-profile foreign player you could have in the GSL.
Lol worthy indeed. Not saying Idra or HuK or better, but they are definitely more well known than Stephano. Heck Incontrol is more well known.
Stephano not accepting could be a good thing, depending on how Gom wants to handle the situation.
Think about it; if he accepts, they get a high-profile foreign player. If he doesn't, they have the opportunity to offer to that to whoever they want with the cover of 'Stephano declined and we had to find a replacement.' That justification can be used to invite damn near anyone.
Edit to cover your edit:
You misunderstand. It's not about being well-known. Huk and Idra have been in GSL before. They've had runs, they've gotten knocked out early... it's fair to say they have a lot of history with that particular tournament.
Stephano, though... He's clearly very skilled. He's also not especially respectful of Korea's place as the pinnacle of Starcraft. He's on record saying that he's not interested in going back there because he learned everything he could and can learn more in Europe. He comes across as a pretty arrogant guy (IMO) and that's an angle that can create a TON of drama and hype for GSL. He'd be new, he'd be the bad boy, the guy every Korean wants to take out, and he's the best foreign player who hasn't already competed and lost. That's a situation that creates drama and hype, which will turn into viewership.
And again. If he declines, then GSL can invite Taeja (or whoever) and when everyone goes "OMG TAEJA? WHY TAEJA?", they can say "well, Stephano declined and we had to find a substitute on short notice. That meant we had to invite a Korean and Taeja was the best choice." Or whatever justification for whoever they need. Could be used to provide cover for a potentially controversial invite.
Thats where our opinions differ. I don't think Stephano is that skilled at all, yet to win a single tournament.
That's also where you're objectively wrong. He's won:
SHOUTCRAFT, beating Thorzain and Grubby.
IPL's UK qualifier, beating Grubby, DreAm, Sase and TAiLS.
ESWC 2011, beating Grubby, MaNa and MarineKingPrime among others.
IPL 3, beating Socke, Revival, Puzzle and MMA in qualifiers and HuK, Boxer, viOLet, Inori, TheSTC and Lucky, among others, in the main tournament.
He also came second at Assembly, beating PuMa, MaNa, NightEnd, Happy and ReaL.
So whether you're a fan or not (I'm really not) it's impossible to deny that he's a damned good player with solid results.
I think the bolded win over MMA is the only win over an at the time Code S player and it was a meaningless game where both players had already qualified and was online.
Stephano is obviously really good but he's not really proven he's Code S level and I see no reason he shouldn't be made to win his spot in Code S.
If he's as good as his fanboys think he wouldn't struggle in Code A.
Compare lucky and Stephano in Assemply thats all i got to say to you. They played the same opponent and the replays is there.
And if you do you can see a gigantic skill difference and is not like Lucky is a bad player. He did qualify to code S last season and played code S this season.
I know people like to use these tournament results to back their claims, but it only back their claims in regards to Code A qualifiers and to a lesser extent maybe ups and downs. If you watch Lucky's GSL games, there's usually an overarching plan that he has, something he prepared and practice for, whether it works or not is a different matter.
That said, Stephano will probably do well, but I'm not sure how he will stack up in GSL's format because he seems to not be the kind of player that's good at preparing for others that much.
EPT
