EPTEG.IdrA on the six-pool, MLG Arena, 1.4.3 - Page 6
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FatkiddsLag
United States413 Posts
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Gryffes
United Kingdom763 Posts
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Coated
United States74 Posts
What was sad was thew way Idra expressed it. He didn't do it as part of a 'strategy', he just basically gave up and said, "what the hell, let's just get this over with." It's that attitude that is lame. | ||
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Angelbelow
United States3728 Posts
On February 24 2012 10:35 windsupernova wrote: I don´t know why Idra still complains about P being too strong against Zerg. Its been months with Z having the upperhand in the MU(and that was even before Mutas were used a lot).Hell, you can even argue that the P deathball has not been such a huge issue.Dunno it just feels P has not really been that strong in PvZ overall I do agree with him in that Mech in TvZ is not being used that much. Its because hes historically struggled against protoss since the start of his sc2 career. In the beta days it was Tester, then we had cruncher, mc, huk, etc etc. Thats why he struggled against toss even when zerg was favored, its a mental block thing. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On February 24 2012 10:38 Gryffes wrote: If you wanted to beat Idra in a BoX wouldn't you cheese him knowing he tilts like a mofo ? yes, if it was a tournament. but not in a showmatch. On February 24 2012 10:39 Coated wrote: 6 pooling is not cheese. Keep in mind that July six pools all the time. It is a viable strategy that really punishes your opponent for being greedy. You can very easily transition into late game from 6 pool as zerg. What was sad was thew way Idra expressed it. He didn't do it as part of a 'strategy', he just basically gave up and said, "what the hell, let's just get this over with." It's that attitude that is lame. 6pooling is the epitome of cheese. | ||
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Gryffes
United Kingdom763 Posts
On February 24 2012 10:41 dAPhREAk wrote: yes, if it was a tournament. but not in a showmatch. Why not? $400 for winning, a decent chunk for anyone. | ||
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iSometric
2221 Posts
On February 24 2012 09:18 Otolia wrote: No it was because aLive wanted to win instead of showing good matches. Korean mentality and all ... Rofl, who doesn't want to win? Don't have like a racist mentality. I'm sure anyone else would also favor winning + good match over just losing. | ||
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klops
United States674 Posts
IdrA: The ghost change is too much in that it will force bio based play to revolve around mid game allins. If zerg gets to broodlord infestor on a good economy while you’re playing bio, you will lose if zerg executes properly. However this will, sooner or later, cause terrans to rediscover turtle mech play which is even stronger on most maps than ghost based play. something i can agree with idra on... 2012 truly a new year. | ||
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
On February 24 2012 10:12 dAPhREAk wrote: that doesnt make the game great or entertaining..... I don't understand this excuse that "show matches are just supposed to be for entertainment", executing some specific strategies are more effective than other ones, and has nothing to do with how much entertainment value it may have for the audience or what type of audience would appreciate it. Would this thread be the same if alive was doing MMA style medivacs drops all over the place and doing marine splits against banelings? If your talking about long macro back and forth games being the most entertaining, the most likely scenario of that happening would be players doing an economic cheese build, which is also just as much of a coin flip. Isn't the whole point of a back and forth game based on the fact that each player can hold each other's attacks and strategies and try to stay in the game and try to come back and adapt after each attack or strategy is thwarted? Idra lost to common place opener strategies that he considered coin flips, Alive held a common place coin flip cheese from Idra, a moral high ground doesn't exist on either side in the way the matches were played out. Player mentality during preparation, in public events, in interviews, and while competing has been and always will be a part of the professional sport or activity they are participating in; people are making the mistake of judging Idra's character as a person when the vast majority of us don't even know him personally, he's a public figure and his public persona while playing a video game isn't enough of a basis for irrational behavior and judgement on any side. Idra is entirely entitled to keep doing exactly what he's doing with exactly the attitude he has, he just needs to deal with the predictable consequences of his actions. Some times it's beneficial to him and some times it's not beneficial to him. If he chooses to behave this way his fan base and following will be of a specific demographic, and if he chooses to behave differently it will be of a different demographic. Just as the time when he GG's out of a game has possible benefits and drawbacks on both sides. We as an audience have wide arrays of tastes and what we consider entertaining, some of us prefer the subtle mind games and unorthodox builds and timings which often result in one sided, quick games; some of us prefer long, drawn out macro games where players are forced to multitask as best as they can; and some of us just prefer to see our favorite player win all the time, regardless of the method or format. Unjustified anger and lack of understanding between segments of our fellow SC2 fans is just silly. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On February 24 2012 10:46 Gryffes wrote: Why not? $400 for winning, a decent chunk for anyone. my feeling is that showmatches are not about winning, they are about putting on a show for fans, and i, as a fan, do not enjoy watching "cheese" and "all-in" strategies. i did not appreciate alive's first two games, and i was incensed at idra's last two games. it was the worst showmatch (start to finish) that i have ever seen. people may disagree and say that the money makes it okay, but i respectfully disagree with that. | ||
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zhenherald
Canada37 Posts
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Daniri
387 Posts
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Candadar
2049 Posts
On February 24 2012 10:50 Caihead wrote: I don't understand this excuse that "show matches are just supposed to be for entertainment", Generally Show Matches are meant for show. For entertainment. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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guN-viCe
United States687 Posts
On February 24 2012 10:51 dAPhREAk wrote: my feeling is that showmatches are not about winning, they are about putting on a show for fans, and i, as a fan, do not enjoy watching "cheese" and "all-in" strategies. i did not appreciate alive's first two games, and i was incensed at idra's last two games. it was the worst showmatch (start to finish) that i have ever seen. people may disagree and say that the money makes it okay, but i respectfully disagree with that. I personally disagree with you that show-matches are not about winning. Meta-game is fun too. | ||
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
On February 24 2012 10:57 zhenherald wrote: honestly don't even know why I clicked this thread. Untill idra actually shows some positive tourney results he might as well be a B teamer (maybe he technically is ?) So him winning IEM china a few months ago doesn't count? and him consistantly being the 2nd highest or highest ranking foreigner in MLG events doesn't count? I think you might want to go back and look over what kind of results foreign B teamers get, and then look at Idras results before you make a statement like that. | ||
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
On February 24 2012 11:00 Candadar wrote: Generally Show Matches are meant for show. For entertainment. Like I said in my post though, different people have different definitions of what they consider entertaining. And what's entertaining to watch doesn't have a direct correlation with how effective it is. And show matches shouldn't JUST be for entertainment either, right? Teams and players often hold friendly or show matches in any sport, it's never assumed that they have to ONLY play a certain way for the audience. It factors in of course, but all of competitive sport is about balancing marketing, sportsmanship, and competitiveness. And players / athletes who are successful know how to have an effective show match. You can't use the argument that it's just for entertainment, first to criticize Alive's play where he "just tried to win", then to excuse Idra's play in response "because Alive wasn't entertaining" when they were both coin flip builds. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On February 24 2012 11:07 guN-viCe wrote: I personally disagree with you that show-matches are not about winning. Meta-game is fun too. that is fine; that is your opinion. i have to say though, the most entertaining showmatch I have ever seen was when marineking off-raced as protoss and played a showmatch. that was entertainment, and it had very little to do with winning. | ||
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lolmlg
619 Posts
On February 24 2012 09:31 dAPhREAk wrote: reminds me of huk vs. nestea showmatch. where huk played seriously, and nestea was trying to show a good game. korean mentality and all..... =P Nestea lost because he expanded to the gold. He was trying to get an early advantage. That isn't what you do when you're just trying to show a good game. What he wanted to do was toy with Huk. | ||
Clazziquai10
Singapore1949 Posts
On February 24 2012 11:00 Candadar wrote: Generally Show Matches are meant for show. For entertainment. Which generally comes from people doing their utmost and playing to win. If you want entertainment without competition go watch funday monday or something..... | ||
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