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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
Bans will be handed out.
Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
I'm going to pay it, but I'm like 30 years old. I think they set the price point a little too high for their market...especially since this is a LAN without and audience type event.
I think PPV Weekend events are also going to hit an issue of 'Why pay for Friday/Saturday when im gonig to a BarCraft Sunday?'
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On February 14 2012 10:19 Pixilated wrote:
I think that the huge backlash seen in this thread isn't really warranted. People need to understand that esports is first and foremost a business. So many people think that our entire industry should be free, but they don't seem to realize the expense involved in organizing and maintaining these events.
Besides that, MLG has given us some of the most compelling narratives in the history of Starcraft 2, and each event has had its own unique storyline, whether it be a clash of rivals, the advent of a new star, or the dominance of an established champion. Some of my fondest Starcraft 2 memories are from the epic MLG weekends spent watching at home, with friends, and at barcrafts.
I think the very least I can do is pay for the event, and I'm disappointed to see that most people don't feel the same way.
I'm not opposed to paying. I'm opposed to being overcharged.
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"I know, lets fly all the players to New York (one of the most expensive cities in the world) pay for everything, hotels etc. then get them to play in a studio in front of no audience!"
"Awesome idea boss, but we can't exactly afford that!"
"It's okay, I've got it covered, this shall be a PPV only event! $20 per viewer!"
Genius idea? I'm not convinced :/
I just like watching good players play, I don't care if they are in new york. I don't care about 5 stream production, I can only properly watch one ffs!
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On February 14 2012 10:18 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 10:14 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 14 2012 10:08 Shiori wrote:On February 14 2012 10:07 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 14 2012 10:05 Angel_ wrote:On February 14 2012 09:57 WilDMousE wrote:
This guy, sundance, needs to learn to change this "We want to help e-sports, pay us" mentality... the whole "I Support E-sports" mindset is pretty much abused by now. The more I sit and think about it the more this looks like it to me. IPL gave more content and features in each tournament they've done than MLG did in a year and a half put together, at a better venue, with more features, more awesome streams, in a Casino for shit's sake, with multiple player panels, a stream for random interviews and people walking around seeing candid players and checking in on the player pool...and you never heard anything about "to help esports grow it's time to pay us"...and they didn't even have tournament internet capability most of the first entire day. what you got instead was one of the best run events we've had and a heartfelt letter/blog from a guy risking everything just to break even for something he loved. No one is forcing MLG to fly out all their players for free.
No one is forcing MLG to run so many tournaments a year. No one is forcing MLG to overlap tournaments with other free tournaments and then expect people to watch them. And yet MLG is standing on thier podium holding their banner that in order to support esports, you should pay extra to THEM, citing helping to grow...while still providing less than most other big tournaments, while eliminating some of the biggest things that attract people to them (crowds) in the process. - But maybe we should be glad. If the problem is that there's too much supply for the demand (tournaments basically every month, and overlapping)... it's one less piece of real competition for viewers if everyone just doesn't watch MLG. and then they'll either die or they'll step up their game seriously. yeah no one is forcing them. Fuck MLG for trying to grow the scene and give players more money! they're trying to grow their brand, not the scene. GSL is a better tournament and costs less. Why would you buy a 20$ ticket for MLG? GSL is not a better tournament for the entire scene though, as in the players. Its in Korea, so the majority of players don't have access to it, and the ones who do limit their access to other tournaments. Its month+ long so players have to turn down tournaments just to do GSL. Of course MLG is trying to grow their brand, but they are also supporting players by holding more tournaments. Its a mutually exclusive relationship. it's a better tournament for what you get, as a viewer. what am i buying? food stamps? no, i'm buying a viewing experience. if MLG wants charity, they can go back to their VC firm. stop pretending MLG is some heroic hope for the korean scene.
wtf? heroic hope for the korean scene? Thats not what I'm saying at all. Things need to change in order for this scene to continue to grow. MLG is changing things in order for that to happen. Will MLG make more money off of it if it works? Absolutely. It then trickles down to the players which is what we need right now.
GSL is a cheaper tournament as a viewer, but in the long run isn't better for the scene.
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I normally don't have enough time to watch all of the MLG games, I usually just catch a few here and there so it doesn't make sense for my personally to pay to watch. Especially with all the other good tournaments going on nowadays. However I hope it works out for them, and this is a ballsy move which demands at least some respect.
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this really saddens me. i was really looking forward to watching this. But in all honesty i cant spend 20 bucks on this, i can hardly afford internet and other bills as it is..
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$20 for an invitational, when I've already paid for the gold membership, I don't really like or watch many invitationals as it is, let alone shell out $20 for one.
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As much as I would love to see the MLG Arena, I don't really have the budget to pay the $20, nor the time to go to Barcrafts.
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On February 14 2012 10:18 disciple wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 10:16 zolii wrote:On February 14 2012 10:14 disciple wrote:On February 14 2012 09:59 Odal wrote:On February 14 2012 09:54 disciple wrote:
I really dislike how Sundance talks about growing esports. Like how ? By targeting an audience to sustain your business model ? This will damn nearly kill the european viewership imo. Which if you think in the lines of being real esports fan won't be a problem, no matter where you live. But in this chaotic time of various organizations throwing in investor money to establish themselves as the biggest league, I hate the "WE ARE DOING THIS FOR ESPORTS" propaganda thing to be thrown around, when the goal of these event organizers like MLG, IPL is to raise the bar high enough to kill the others while being able to sustain their model financially. So you need 100 000$ to fly your players and be able to offer high production value. I don't remember TSL3 needing that sort of funds and it was easily the most thrilling and memorable esports fan experience in my life. TSL3 is an entirely different thing, and you know that too. MLG is a league with one of the main selling points being live events. So you think renting casinos in Vegas as venues is completely appropriate for esports live event ? I'm a massive esports fan like everyone else here, but I don't want to feel guilty for not supporting inadequate business race which is driven by the twisted perspective that throwing investor money in production value is what esports needs. We simply don't need all this as fans. As I said I would have that much more fun from great story lines and drama in an online tournament casted from replays. By reading your posts I can see the pattern made by TL = GREAT not made by TL (especially MLG) = BAD I hope you are aware of that Never said what MLG is doing is bad. Unnecessary - yes.
Well, I can't agree at all. Replay-tournaments are a dime a dozen, while the live tournaments, where the competitors are playing while I'm watching (and in the best cases are sharing the stage), creates a whole other level of excitement and energy. Live stage > live > replay.
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Not getting my money or anybody I know who watches MLG online.
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HM, a weekend of MLG or a season of GSL... Having trouble to keep up with all the content GOM is throwing at me already makes it really tough to pay for MLG especially when there's free opportunitys like Assembly.
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On February 14 2012 10:21 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 10:18 Shiori wrote:On February 14 2012 10:14 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 14 2012 10:08 Shiori wrote:On February 14 2012 10:07 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 14 2012 10:05 Angel_ wrote:On February 14 2012 09:57 WilDMousE wrote:
This guy, sundance, needs to learn to change this "We want to help e-sports, pay us" mentality... the whole "I Support E-sports" mindset is pretty much abused by now. The more I sit and think about it the more this looks like it to me. IPL gave more content and features in each tournament they've done than MLG did in a year and a half put together, at a better venue, with more features, more awesome streams, in a Casino for shit's sake, with multiple player panels, a stream for random interviews and people walking around seeing candid players and checking in on the player pool...and you never heard anything about "to help esports grow it's time to pay us"...and they didn't even have tournament internet capability most of the first entire day. what you got instead was one of the best run events we've had and a heartfelt letter/blog from a guy risking everything just to break even for something he loved. No one is forcing MLG to fly out all their players for free.
No one is forcing MLG to run so many tournaments a year. No one is forcing MLG to overlap tournaments with other free tournaments and then expect people to watch them. And yet MLG is standing on thier podium holding their banner that in order to support esports, you should pay extra to THEM, citing helping to grow...while still providing less than most other big tournaments, while eliminating some of the biggest things that attract people to them (crowds) in the process. - But maybe we should be glad. If the problem is that there's too much supply for the demand (tournaments basically every month, and overlapping)... it's one less piece of real competition for viewers if everyone just doesn't watch MLG. and then they'll either die or they'll step up their game seriously. yeah no one is forcing them. Fuck MLG for trying to grow the scene and give players more money! they're trying to grow their brand, not the scene. GSL is a better tournament and costs less. Why would you buy a 20$ ticket for MLG? GSL is not a better tournament for the entire scene though, as in the players. Its in Korea, so the majority of players don't have access to it, and the ones who do limit their access to other tournaments. Its month+ long so players have to turn down tournaments just to do GSL. Of course MLG is trying to grow their brand, but they are also supporting players by holding more tournaments. Its a mutually exclusive relationship. it's a better tournament for what you get, as a viewer. what am i buying? food stamps? no, i'm buying a viewing experience. if MLG wants charity, they can go back to their VC firm. stop pretending MLG is some heroic hope for the korean scene. wtf? heroic hope for the korean scene? Thats not what I'm saying at all. Things need to change in order for this scene to continue to grow. MLG is changing things in order for that to happen. Will MLG make more money off of it if it works? Absolutely. It then trickles down to the players which is what we need right now. GSL is a cheaper tournament as a viewer, but in the long run isn't better for the scene.
it's a better tournament for the viewer, not just a cheaper one. it's better bang for your buck. and so far, it seems to be stimulating interest from viewers. MLG resonated with the west because it was free and people could attend it/watch it. it's not because MLG did anything special that DH/IPL/whatever aren't doing.
never thought i'd encounter trickle down economics in esports, but it's just as stupid here as it is with corporate tax breaks.
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On February 14 2012 10:19 Saig0n wrote:
Not sure if this poll was already created but have not seen it thus far.
Edit: Dear god i butchered the " would not pay no matter the cost"
Damn!
I would only pay if there's a free option. Cutting starcraft viewership by what's likely to be more than 90% is not something I would support with any amount of money.
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Oh wells I can always watch something else. Nothing paying 20$ for two days of content.
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One thing worth noting is that this was just for the Winter Arena. My guess is that they want to know whether a PPV-type system will work. So rather than theorycraft it, they're going to try it out. Seems reasonable to me. People are being way too dramatic about it. If no one buys the subscription, you can be damn well sure they won't do the same thing for the Spring arena.
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On February 14 2012 09:36 Fandango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 09:35 aderum wrote:
I cant watch unlimited movies + series (ofc not every series or movie in the world, but a large database to chose from) + unlimited sport from Premier League, Champions League, PGA, NBL, Formel 1, MotoGP,NHL etc. (not every game but i can watch how much of what is broadcasted as i want) for about 25$ a month
I cant see why i should need to pay 20 $ for a weekend for only sc2 Because you need to support eSports for the greater Esports good so ESports doesn't die of ESPORTSuicide
So I can use your argument if they charged 200$?
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You know I've thought about it and honestly, at 20$, I'm probably going to tell myself 'you should be spending your sc2 time laddering instead anyway'.
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I haven't read through the thread, but my opinion isn't that paying to watch is a problem, i pay GSL for premium, for both GSL and GSTL, as well as a gold membership for previous MLGs, my problem is the steep cost.
you're getting 1 weekend, roughly 20 hours of vods like they state, for 20 bucks, gsl gets you 1 months worth of code A, code S, and up/downs for 10 bucks, and my previous MLG Gold was $30 bucks for a years worth of premium access. IEM is only $7 for a weekend, NASL for $25 for an entire season. So why so steep for this tournament?
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I would probably pay it if i had nothing to do all 3 days and could watch 100%. But i wont have that much time and then the 20$ seem like a waste of money. I am pretty sad i cant watch any content at all but well I would have Assembly at the same time anyway. Then its gonna be Assembly only...
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Only thing I'll miss is the reaction from the live audience, but definitely a yes.
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EPT
