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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
Bans will be handed out.
Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I enjoy MLGs and have usually tuned in in the past, but then again I enjoy GSLs too and I only pay for a season's worth maybe every other season at most. I don't know what the likelihood of me paying 20$ for one weekend's worth of MLG is. Probably not that high. I'm curious to see how it will go.
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On February 14 2012 10:09 zaii wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 09:57 VTPerfect wrote:
Really really awful plan, heres what could have been done.
- Realize flying out 32 players for 100 thousand dollars with no live audience is a complete waste of money
- Invest half that money in a higher prize pool and real qualifiers (lol at the NA players invited over me o.o?)
- Hold tournament online and cast all games with high production value similar to IPL
- Broadcast said games inbetween actualy MLG live events
-???
- Profit They still won't profit, and who are you, That you think you deserve an invite? lol
He's actually better than alot of the players who were invited for their popularity.
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I preferred their monthly/yearly subscription option. I most likely wont be watching this, which is a little bit sad to me. But spending that kind of money for a weekend only, just isn't justifiable, especially with my interest diminishing in the game...
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On February 14 2012 10:10 Angel_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 10:07 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 14 2012 10:05 Angel_ wrote:On February 14 2012 09:57 WilDMousE wrote:
This guy, sundance, needs to learn to change this "We want to help e-sports, pay us" mentality... the whole "I Support E-sports" mindset is pretty much abused by now. The more I sit and think about it the more this looks like it to me. IPL gave more content and features in each tournament they've done than MLG did in a year and a half put together, at a better venue, with more features, more awesome streams, in a Casino for shit's sake, with multiple player panels, a stream for random interviews and people walking around seeing candid players and checking in on the player pool...and you never heard anything about "to help esports grow it's time to pay us"...and they didn't even have tournament internet capability most of the first entire day. what you got instead was one of the best run events we've had and a heartfelt letter/blog from a guy risking everything just to break even for something he loved. No one is forcing MLG to fly out all their players for free.
No one is forcing MLG to run so many tournaments a year. No one is forcing MLG to overlap tournaments with other free tournaments and then expect people to watch them. And yet MLG is standing on thier podium holding their banner that in order to support esports, you should pay extra to THEM, citing helping to grow...while still providing less than most other big tournaments, while eliminating some of the biggest things that attract people to them (crowds) in the process. - But maybe we should be glad. If the problem is that there's too much supply for the demand (tournaments basically every month, and overlapping)... it's one less piece of real competition for viewers if everyone just doesn't watch MLG. and then they'll either die or they'll step up their game seriously. yeah no one is forcing them. Fuck MLG for trying to grow the scene and give players more money! explain to me in slow clear sentences how you think that oversaturating the scene is helping it grow. and if you want for bonus explain how you think that blowing all their money flying players out for free that...last year were going anyway helps the scene grow.
Koreans dont have money to fly out, more views for flying them out. Makes economic sense for MLG. More koreans = more views.
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On February 14 2012 10:06 Fjodorov wrote:
And to all of you talking about "sustainable business models" and bashing ppl for saying they wont pay: People dont think its worth it, they wont pay. Its really easy. First you advocate capitalism and the second after you are complaining because the product you are selling has no demand on the market. lol
Exactly. The call for boycott is stupid, as fans we should support esports. But that doesn't mean we are mindless drones. We vote with our wallet for the best value provided, and that's not winter arena.
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To be honest I'd way rather spend the 20 bucks on GSL. Its a month long... and has much better players in it. Im not entirely surprised that they would introduce a fee into MLG... but the fact that there is no free live stream is gonna turn a lot of people off.
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I won't be paying the 20 dollars for the simple reason that there's so much amazing free content out there right now that it doesn't make sense to pay for more.
I can already get all the content I could ever hope to consume without paying a penny, there's no way I would pay for more of the same under such circumstances.
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Hmm not too sure if I will buy this....
Time will tell. If I have nothing going on that weekend, then I will most likely purchase it.
Will still buy the Gold Membership though
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If this entire fee to watch strategy is employed for the sole sake of placating koreans to actually travel here to play.... forget it. I'd rather they have less overhead and fewer Koreans. I don't watch it for the Koreans. I watch it for the production quality and the casters and the competition.
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On February 14 2012 10:10 wun4 wrote:Actually, I have to say that I totally agree with the Door-in-the-face hypothesis now that I think more about it. In the end it could very well end up with a free LQ stream and $15 HQ stream and people will be celebrating how they forced MLG to back down when it could be MLG's plan all along  Though I guess they wouldn't back down if people didn't complain. We'll see...
now to think about it the MLG stuff might be rolling on the floor from laughter @ the nerd rage that the 20$ price caused
since they already know the model will be different :D
hats down Mr Sundance - new level of trolling :D
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On February 14 2012 10:11 Oreo7 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 10:10 Angel_ wrote:On February 14 2012 10:07 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 14 2012 10:05 Angel_ wrote:On February 14 2012 09:57 WilDMousE wrote:
This guy, sundance, needs to learn to change this "We want to help e-sports, pay us" mentality... the whole "I Support E-sports" mindset is pretty much abused by now. The more I sit and think about it the more this looks like it to me. IPL gave more content and features in each tournament they've done than MLG did in a year and a half put together, at a better venue, with more features, more awesome streams, in a Casino for shit's sake, with multiple player panels, a stream for random interviews and people walking around seeing candid players and checking in on the player pool...and you never heard anything about "to help esports grow it's time to pay us"...and they didn't even have tournament internet capability most of the first entire day. what you got instead was one of the best run events we've had and a heartfelt letter/blog from a guy risking everything just to break even for something he loved. No one is forcing MLG to fly out all their players for free.
No one is forcing MLG to run so many tournaments a year. No one is forcing MLG to overlap tournaments with other free tournaments and then expect people to watch them. And yet MLG is standing on thier podium holding their banner that in order to support esports, you should pay extra to THEM, citing helping to grow...while still providing less than most other big tournaments, while eliminating some of the biggest things that attract people to them (crowds) in the process. - But maybe we should be glad. If the problem is that there's too much supply for the demand (tournaments basically every month, and overlapping)... it's one less piece of real competition for viewers if everyone just doesn't watch MLG. and then they'll either die or they'll step up their game seriously. yeah no one is forcing them. Fuck MLG for trying to grow the scene and give players more money! explain to me in slow clear sentences how you think that oversaturating the scene is helping it grow. and if you want for bonus explain how you think that blowing all their money flying players out for free that...last year were going anyway helps the scene grow. Koreans dont have money to fly out, more views for flying them out. Makes economic sense for MLG. More koreans = more views.
with that logic, how were the koreans here last year then? and why are they only letting a maximum of 8 (16?) attend then?
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Can we extrapolate, from the result of the poll that seems to be stabilized at 15% of people willing to pay, how many viewers MLG will have?
And it will not be 15% of the last MLG events because TL members are the core of the sc2 scene and we can safely assume that 0% of the 'casual' viewers will pay.
Anyone want to make a prediction? I'm curious to know...
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So MLG hits new highs in Viewers and Subscription sales etc at the end of 2011, Start of 2012 and they have no money.. Need to have PPV to make it work. No way have they been making a loss all these years and remained, I'm not sure I believe this we need money to forward esports. They want larger profits. (Very presumptuous I know, have they released financial figures though?)
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9071 Posts
On February 14 2012 09:59 Odal wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 09:54 disciple wrote:
I really dislike how Sundance talks about growing esports. Like how ? By targeting an audience to sustain your business model ? This will damn nearly kill the european viewership imo. Which if you think in the lines of being real esports fan won't be a problem, no matter where you live. But in this chaotic time of various organizations throwing in investor money to establish themselves as the biggest league, I hate the "WE ARE DOING THIS FOR ESPORTS" propaganda thing to be thrown around, when the goal of these event organizers like MLG, IPL is to raise the bar high enough to kill the others while being able to sustain their model financially. So you need 100 000$ to fly your players and be able to offer high production value. I don't remember TSL3 needing that sort of funds and it was easily the most thrilling and memorable esports fan experience in my life. TSL3 is an entirely different thing, and you know that too. MLG is a league with one of the main selling points being live events.
So you think renting casinos in Vegas as venues is completely appropriate for esports live event ? I'm a massive esports fan like everyone else here, but I don't want to feel guilty for not supporting inadequate business race which is driven by the twisted perspective that throwing investor money in production value is what esports needs. We simply don't need all this as fans. As I said I would have that much more fun from great story lines and drama in an online tournament casted from replays.
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No, sorry. I am not paying to watch Starcraft 2. The ONLY reason I'd do that if there were only ONE league to watch but there's just too much content out there. How much money is it to watch a season of MLG and GSL now? It's actually disgusting, given SC2's main demograhpic.
Sorry, I won't support MLG AT ALL now.
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On February 14 2012 10:10 Oreo7 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 10:08 Shiori wrote:On February 14 2012 10:07 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 14 2012 10:05 Angel_ wrote:On February 14 2012 09:57 WilDMousE wrote:
This guy, sundance, needs to learn to change this "We want to help e-sports, pay us" mentality... the whole "I Support E-sports" mindset is pretty much abused by now. The more I sit and think about it the more this looks like it to me. IPL gave more content and features in each tournament they've done than MLG did in a year and a half put together, at a better venue, with more features, more awesome streams, in a Casino for shit's sake, with multiple player panels, a stream for random interviews and people walking around seeing candid players and checking in on the player pool...and you never heard anything about "to help esports grow it's time to pay us"...and they didn't even have tournament internet capability most of the first entire day. what you got instead was one of the best run events we've had and a heartfelt letter/blog from a guy risking everything just to break even for something he loved. No one is forcing MLG to fly out all their players for free.
No one is forcing MLG to run so many tournaments a year. No one is forcing MLG to overlap tournaments with other free tournaments and then expect people to watch them. And yet MLG is standing on thier podium holding their banner that in order to support esports, you should pay extra to THEM, citing helping to grow...while still providing less than most other big tournaments, while eliminating some of the biggest things that attract people to them (crowds) in the process. - But maybe we should be glad. If the problem is that there's too much supply for the demand (tournaments basically every month, and overlapping)... it's one less piece of real competition for viewers if everyone just doesn't watch MLG. and then they'll either die or they'll step up their game seriously. yeah no one is forcing them. Fuck MLG for trying to grow the scene and give players more money! they're trying to grow their brand, not the scene. GSL is a better tournament and costs less. Why would you buy a 20$ ticket for MLG? Because you have disposable income and not only do you want to watch a tournament but you want to support esports (the players, organizers and casters)?
would you sell your house and donate the proceeds to MLG? no, because it's a ridiculous waste of money and is far too much of an investment for what you get. on a much smaller scale, that's what's happening here: MLG isn't worth 20$. i'm not going to buy it because i "like" esports. if it wants me to help esports grow, then it will produce content at a price that is worth it. do you think i'm a venture capital firm or something? does MLG think TL is? they already got millions in VC. they don't need anymore good faith payments unless something is awry.
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On February 14 2012 10:08 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 10:07 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 14 2012 10:05 Angel_ wrote:On February 14 2012 09:57 WilDMousE wrote:
This guy, sundance, needs to learn to change this "We want to help e-sports, pay us" mentality... the whole "I Support E-sports" mindset is pretty much abused by now. The more I sit and think about it the more this looks like it to me. IPL gave more content and features in each tournament they've done than MLG did in a year and a half put together, at a better venue, with more features, more awesome streams, in a Casino for shit's sake, with multiple player panels, a stream for random interviews and people walking around seeing candid players and checking in on the player pool...and you never heard anything about "to help esports grow it's time to pay us"...and they didn't even have tournament internet capability most of the first entire day. what you got instead was one of the best run events we've had and a heartfelt letter/blog from a guy risking everything just to break even for something he loved. No one is forcing MLG to fly out all their players for free.
No one is forcing MLG to run so many tournaments a year. No one is forcing MLG to overlap tournaments with other free tournaments and then expect people to watch them. And yet MLG is standing on thier podium holding their banner that in order to support esports, you should pay extra to THEM, citing helping to grow...while still providing less than most other big tournaments, while eliminating some of the biggest things that attract people to them (crowds) in the process. - But maybe we should be glad. If the problem is that there's too much supply for the demand (tournaments basically every month, and overlapping)... it's one less piece of real competition for viewers if everyone just doesn't watch MLG. and then they'll either die or they'll step up their game seriously. yeah no one is forcing them. Fuck MLG for trying to grow the scene and give players more money! they're trying to grow their brand, not the scene. GSL is a better tournament and costs less. Why would you buy a 20$ ticket for MLG?
GSL is not a better tournament for the entire scene though, as in the players. Its in Korea, so the majority of players don't have access to it, and the ones who do limit their access to other tournaments. Its month+ long so players have to turn down tournaments just to do GSL.
Of course MLG is trying to grow their brand, but they are also supporting players by holding more tournaments. Its a mutually exclusive relationship.
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will buy.
i cant even go out on a friday night and have a entertaining night for 20 bucks.
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On February 14 2012 10:13 gds wrote:
Can we extrapolate from the result of the poll that seems to be stabilized at 15% of people willing to pay how many viewers MLG will have?
And it will not be 15% of the last MLG events because TL members are the core of the sc2 scene and we can safely assume that 0% of the 'casual' viewers will pay.
Anyone want to make a prediction? I'm curious to know...
Even 0.5% of the casual population will far, far exceed the 15% of TL members that will pay though.
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All you people ever do is bitch and moan about these tournaments. It is simply not possible to make eSports grow as much as we all want it to if the only income is through advertisement. Maybe farther down the road it will be possible w/ just advertisement, i.e NFL or NBA. I think this is a step in the correct direction by MLG and glad they have the balls and production to back it up.
In other news, I think this will be a great tournament and it will be a shame if you pick ASUS ROG over this.
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EPT
