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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
Bans will be handed out.
Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
On February 14 2012 09:44 Clank wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 09:33 SonOfBoxer wrote:On February 14 2012 09:30 jinixxx123 wrote:On February 14 2012 09:27 SonOfBoxer wrote:
Well, I think I've said it before, but I'll say it again anyhow: personally, I can't find sense in paying for any tournament that isn't the GSL. Some people like to say "if you don't support them, you're killing e-sports!", but Chill himself had the perfect answer for those guys: "If you show your support by paying, you'll create a bubble" (something like that).
You see, the GSL is the best tournament in the world not because of some specific format or something like that, but because it has the best players in the world. Like one of our favorite TL Writers once wrote: "There's no such thing as hidden gosus anymore", and he is right. Nowadays, if you're good, everybody knows about you. So, why should I spend a relatively high amount of cash to see a minor tournament? Or worse: a pre-tournament?
GOM charges 20 bucks for 2 straight months of pure awesomeness, whereas foreign companies want to charge almost (or more than) that for a weekend worth of low-level games (when compared to the GSL). So, really, it makes no sense paying to watch anything but the GSL so far, unless you have cash to burn. dude cut the bullshit, very high code S players are playing in this tournament. as i said in this thread, say the fee is to much or you are not paying , dont come here with such bullshit reasons. Evidently, you are one of those who has cash to burn. And don't be so mad at me because I actually value my money. Cry all you want, but the fact remains this is a low level tournament, and that they want to charge "just 20 bucks for 20 hours of streaming" whereas I can pay 20 bucks for 2 months of the best streaming in the world. So, yeah, keep the rage coming baby cake. LOL, low level tournament? they have some of the top players in the scene and a 26k prize pool. But yes, other tournaments are cheaper than this arena will be, however, are those other tournaments actually making money? I have no idea (other than IPL, which is losing money), but the fact that MLG isn't currently making money with all of their viewers, I would assume these other tournaments are also losing money. MLG is trying to bring money into the scene with a quality product and actually make money and really grow the scene.
Yep, it's a low level tournament when compared to the GSL, which charges the same amount of cash for 2 months. And I don't really see this so-called "quality product" they're trying to bring, since they want to charge 20 bucks for 20 hours. It's WAY off. Maybe they forget the internet exists, and that our community is actually pretty smart, despite some exceptions? I wouldn't be willing to pay 20 bucks for a weekend worth of Starcraft, I'm sorry if you are. But GL HF anyway.
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On February 14 2012 10:02 OptimusYale wrote:
and I thought GSL was expensive.....SHEEESH!
This.... I feel like im paying too much for GSL Season1 light ticket ($15) and GSTL($20).... and you want me to pay 20$ for 20 hours?
...
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On February 14 2012 10:01 Xeris wrote:
100% support this. The Arena / Championship initiative is really good!
do you mean good for NASL?
i kid i kid
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The thing is... you pay 30 dollar for a Gold Membership which is for a whole year, including four main events.
Now you pay 20 dollar for a one time three-day event.
For me the problem is not that I have to pay money, it's the amount I have to pay.
If it were $7,50 I'd do it, maybe $10. But $20... >_<
It's the first time they do this, so why start with $20?
They have also stated, there might be more than one Arena event per championship (main event)... are we going to have to pay $20 again for every single Arena...?
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The most interesting part of this post to me is:
"Don’t want to buy anything without seeing it first? We agree, and we wouldn’t ask you to. You should know exactly what you’re getting. We’ll be streaming the first match from the Main Stream and each of the three gameplay streams on Friday and Saturday for free. And the Dr Pepper MLG Ultimate Access Stream (more info on this soon) [players interviews, polls, other behind the scenes stuff is what they are saying atm] will be free to all, without an Arena pass, all weekend long. "
"VOD will be released for free for those who didn’t purchase an Arena pass one week after the end of the competition."
So you can check out the streams on Fri/Sat when they start and decide if you actually want to buy it to watch it that weekend; and if you're willing to wait, you can just check out the vods 1 week afterwards without paying. The only thing I'm not sure about is the price point... $20 is a little high imho for a single weekend event, so I'm not sure ^^ (I think $10-15 would be easier to justify for some people). I'll tune in on Friday and see if I think it's worth my money. In order to ask for $20 for a weekend event, I'm expecting some ridiculous production value, little to no technical difficulties, and a lot of content with barely any downtime squeezed in. I also hope the interviews go beyond the generic "How do you feel about this match," "What is your biggest competition here," and "Any shoutouts to your fans?" Please, do some good interviews TT.
Suddenly going to my local barcraft is much more appealing though :O! $20 split among 20+ people becomes very cheap ^^.
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On February 14 2012 10:05 Angel_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 09:57 WilDMousE wrote:
This guy, sundance, needs to learn to change this "We want to help e-sports, pay us" mentality... the whole "I Support E-sports" mindset is pretty much abused by now. The more I sit and think about it the more this looks like it to me. IPL gave more content and features in each tournament they've done than MLG did in a year and a half put together, at a better venue, with more features, more awesome streams, in a Casino for shit's sake, with multiple player panels, a stream for random interviews and people walking around seeing candid players and checking in on the player pool...and you never heard anything about "to help esports grow it's time to pay us"...and they didn't even have tournament internet capability most of the first entire day. what you got instead was one of the best run events we've had and a heartfelt letter/blog from a guy risking everything just to break even for something he loved. No one is forcing MLG to fly out all their players for free.
No one is forcing MLG to run so many tournaments a year. No one is forcing MLG to overlap tournaments with other free tournaments and then expect people to watch them. And yet MLG is standing on thier podium holding their banner that in order to support esports, you should pay extra to THEM, citing helping to grow...while still providing less than most other big tournaments, while eliminating some of the biggest things that attract people to them (crowds) in the process. - But maybe we should be glad. If the problem is that there's too much supply for the demand (tournaments basically every month, and overlapping)... it's one less piece of real competition for viewers if everyone just doesn't watch MLG. and then they'll either die or they'll step up their game seriously.
yeah no one is forcing them. Fuck MLG for trying to grow the scene and give players more money!
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already payed. if we want better tournements stuff will not be free! people sometimes need to buck up the cast for some great games
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ehhh 20 dollars for a weekend of stuff isnt totally worth it imo
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Ya i'd rather spend my money on GSL. MLG sticks with this model i'm done with MLG.
Definitely not worth paying for...
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On February 14 2012 10:04 SimDawg wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 10:01 red4ce wrote:
Despite being very 1 sided, the poll in the first page actually bodes well for MLG. 15% of respondents are saying they will pay for winter arena. If we take a conservative estimate of the potential viewing audience of 100k, that means winter arena will have 15k buys. 15k X $20 = $300k, which should be more than enough revenue for MLG since this is a no-audience event and the production costs would be a lot less than the championship events. This is pretty interesting. They only need something like 7.500 people to buy for them to break even? That's quite amazing, it really shows the strength of this model.
good model tbh, they'll get 20k people easily i reckon
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On February 14 2012 10:07 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 10:05 Angel_ wrote:On February 14 2012 09:57 WilDMousE wrote:
This guy, sundance, needs to learn to change this "We want to help e-sports, pay us" mentality... the whole "I Support E-sports" mindset is pretty much abused by now. The more I sit and think about it the more this looks like it to me. IPL gave more content and features in each tournament they've done than MLG did in a year and a half put together, at a better venue, with more features, more awesome streams, in a Casino for shit's sake, with multiple player panels, a stream for random interviews and people walking around seeing candid players and checking in on the player pool...and you never heard anything about "to help esports grow it's time to pay us"...and they didn't even have tournament internet capability most of the first entire day. what you got instead was one of the best run events we've had and a heartfelt letter/blog from a guy risking everything just to break even for something he loved. No one is forcing MLG to fly out all their players for free.
No one is forcing MLG to run so many tournaments a year. No one is forcing MLG to overlap tournaments with other free tournaments and then expect people to watch them. And yet MLG is standing on thier podium holding their banner that in order to support esports, you should pay extra to THEM, citing helping to grow...while still providing less than most other big tournaments, while eliminating some of the biggest things that attract people to them (crowds) in the process. - But maybe we should be glad. If the problem is that there's too much supply for the demand (tournaments basically every month, and overlapping)... it's one less piece of real competition for viewers if everyone just doesn't watch MLG. and then they'll either die or they'll step up their game seriously. yeah no one is forcing them. Fuck MLG for trying to grow the scene and give players more money!
they're trying to grow their brand, not the scene. GSL is a better tournament and costs less. Why would you buy a 20$ ticket for MLG?
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On February 14 2012 09:57 VTPerfect wrote:
Really really awful plan, heres what could have been done.
- Realize flying out 32 players for 100 thousand dollars with no live audience is a complete waste of money
- Invest half that money in a higher prize pool and real qualifiers (lol at the NA players invited over me o.o?)
- Hold tournament online and cast all games with high production value similar to IPL
- Broadcast said games inbetween actualy MLG live events
-???
- Profit
They still won't profit, and who are you, That you think you deserve an invite? lol
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On February 14 2012 10:08 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 10:07 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 14 2012 10:05 Angel_ wrote:On February 14 2012 09:57 WilDMousE wrote:
This guy, sundance, needs to learn to change this "We want to help e-sports, pay us" mentality... the whole "I Support E-sports" mindset is pretty much abused by now. The more I sit and think about it the more this looks like it to me. IPL gave more content and features in each tournament they've done than MLG did in a year and a half put together, at a better venue, with more features, more awesome streams, in a Casino for shit's sake, with multiple player panels, a stream for random interviews and people walking around seeing candid players and checking in on the player pool...and you never heard anything about "to help esports grow it's time to pay us"...and they didn't even have tournament internet capability most of the first entire day. what you got instead was one of the best run events we've had and a heartfelt letter/blog from a guy risking everything just to break even for something he loved. No one is forcing MLG to fly out all their players for free.
No one is forcing MLG to run so many tournaments a year. No one is forcing MLG to overlap tournaments with other free tournaments and then expect people to watch them. And yet MLG is standing on thier podium holding their banner that in order to support esports, you should pay extra to THEM, citing helping to grow...while still providing less than most other big tournaments, while eliminating some of the biggest things that attract people to them (crowds) in the process. - But maybe we should be glad. If the problem is that there's too much supply for the demand (tournaments basically every month, and overlapping)... it's one less piece of real competition for viewers if everyone just doesn't watch MLG. and then they'll either die or they'll step up their game seriously. yeah no one is forcing them. Fuck MLG for trying to grow the scene and give players more money! they're trying to grow their brand, not the scene. GSL is a better tournament and costs less. Why would you buy a 20$ ticket for MLG?
Because you have disposable income and not only do you want to watch a tournament but you want to support esports (the players, organizers and casters)?
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Actually, I have to say that I totally agree that the Door-in-the-face technique could be what's going on here. In the end it could very well end up with a free LQ stream and $15 HQ stream and people will be celebrating how they forced MLG to back down when it could be MLG's plan all along  Though I guess they wouldn't back down if people didn't complain. We'll see...
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On February 14 2012 10:07 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 10:05 Angel_ wrote:On February 14 2012 09:57 WilDMousE wrote:
This guy, sundance, needs to learn to change this "We want to help e-sports, pay us" mentality... the whole "I Support E-sports" mindset is pretty much abused by now. The more I sit and think about it the more this looks like it to me. IPL gave more content and features in each tournament they've done than MLG did in a year and a half put together, at a better venue, with more features, more awesome streams, in a Casino for shit's sake, with multiple player panels, a stream for random interviews and people walking around seeing candid players and checking in on the player pool...and you never heard anything about "to help esports grow it's time to pay us"...and they didn't even have tournament internet capability most of the first entire day. what you got instead was one of the best run events we've had and a heartfelt letter/blog from a guy risking everything just to break even for something he loved. No one is forcing MLG to fly out all their players for free.
No one is forcing MLG to run so many tournaments a year. No one is forcing MLG to overlap tournaments with other free tournaments and then expect people to watch them. And yet MLG is standing on thier podium holding their banner that in order to support esports, you should pay extra to THEM, citing helping to grow...while still providing less than most other big tournaments, while eliminating some of the biggest things that attract people to them (crowds) in the process. - But maybe we should be glad. If the problem is that there's too much supply for the demand (tournaments basically every month, and overlapping)... it's one less piece of real competition for viewers if everyone just doesn't watch MLG. and then they'll either die or they'll step up their game seriously. yeah no one is forcing them. Fuck MLG for trying to grow the scene and give players more money!
explain to me in slow clear sentences how you think that oversaturating the scene is helping it grow. and if you want for bonus explain how you think that blowing all their money flying players out for free that...last year were going anyway helps the scene grow.
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On February 14 2012 10:08 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 10:07 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 14 2012 10:05 Angel_ wrote:On February 14 2012 09:57 WilDMousE wrote:
This guy, sundance, needs to learn to change this "We want to help e-sports, pay us" mentality... the whole "I Support E-sports" mindset is pretty much abused by now. The more I sit and think about it the more this looks like it to me. IPL gave more content and features in each tournament they've done than MLG did in a year and a half put together, at a better venue, with more features, more awesome streams, in a Casino for shit's sake, with multiple player panels, a stream for random interviews and people walking around seeing candid players and checking in on the player pool...and you never heard anything about "to help esports grow it's time to pay us"...and they didn't even have tournament internet capability most of the first entire day. what you got instead was one of the best run events we've had and a heartfelt letter/blog from a guy risking everything just to break even for something he loved. No one is forcing MLG to fly out all their players for free.
No one is forcing MLG to run so many tournaments a year. No one is forcing MLG to overlap tournaments with other free tournaments and then expect people to watch them. And yet MLG is standing on thier podium holding their banner that in order to support esports, you should pay extra to THEM, citing helping to grow...while still providing less than most other big tournaments, while eliminating some of the biggest things that attract people to them (crowds) in the process. - But maybe we should be glad. If the problem is that there's too much supply for the demand (tournaments basically every month, and overlapping)... it's one less piece of real competition for viewers if everyone just doesn't watch MLG. and then they'll either die or they'll step up their game seriously. yeah no one is forcing them. Fuck MLG for trying to grow the scene and give players more money! they're trying to grow their brand, not the scene. GSL is a better tournament and costs less. Why would you buy a 20$ ticket for MLG?
More like they're trying to stay alive in the scene to host events.
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For me, it's purely a question of value. Yes, I enjoy SC2 eSports and I'm willing to pay money to enjoy it (and I have a number of times), but even if it disappeared tomorrow, I'd have other things to enjoy instead. At the moment, the simple fact of the matter is that nowadays there is already more free SC2 content than I could possibly watch with the amount of spare time I can devote to it, so I just don't have any desire to pay for this. If tournaments and organisations crash because people like me aren't willing to give out charity, then I'm sorry for them but it's not my responsibility to give them the money they need.
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On February 14 2012 10:08 mememolly wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 10:04 SimDawg wrote:On February 14 2012 10:01 red4ce wrote:
Despite being very 1 sided, the poll in the first page actually bodes well for MLG. 15% of respondents are saying they will pay for winter arena. If we take a conservative estimate of the potential viewing audience of 100k, that means winter arena will have 15k buys. 15k X $20 = $300k, which should be more than enough revenue for MLG since this is a no-audience event and the production costs would be a lot less than the championship events. This is pretty interesting. They only need something like 7.500 people to buy for them to break even? That's quite amazing, it really shows the strength of this model. good model tbh, they'll get 20k people easily i reckon
I doubt 20k or even 10k will pay for it.
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On February 14 2012 10:08 mememolly wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 10:04 SimDawg wrote:On February 14 2012 10:01 red4ce wrote:
Despite being very 1 sided, the poll in the first page actually bodes well for MLG. 15% of respondents are saying they will pay for winter arena. If we take a conservative estimate of the potential viewing audience of 100k, that means winter arena will have 15k buys. 15k X $20 = $300k, which should be more than enough revenue for MLG since this is a no-audience event and the production costs would be a lot less than the championship events. This is pretty interesting. They only need something like 7.500 people to buy for them to break even? That's quite amazing, it really shows the strength of this model. good model tbh, they'll get 20k people easily i reckon
Somehow I doubt that. I was one of the first to jump at the gold subscription. I'm not even thinking twice about purchasing this. I honestly wonder how many will... but I think it's going to be on the lowest end of anyone's estimates.
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its 20 bucks...seriously not that much. I will def do it.
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EPT
