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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
Bans will be handed out.
Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
On February 14 2012 23:36 Munchkin wrote:
I'm having a hard time understanding the the bit about Gold Membership...
I bought it thinking I'd have access to MLG events for the next year.
Maybe I am not reading this right.. but this is not the case anymore?
What exactly did I pay for ...?
Well, at this point it looks like you and I bought tickets that give us access to about half the content MLG will produce in the coming year, assuming the Arena events continue to be produced.
I'm sure Sundance will do something about the people who purchased Gold. He sure as hell better, why do you think people are taking the time to voice our outrage if not in the hope that it will cause MLG to make the choice to act like a legitimate business and respect the deals they've made with their customers?
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oh yeah and MLG's "HD" quality is a total joke. Their HD is 546p or something. Demanding 20$ for that- lol no. Compare that to Dreamhack's or Assembly's crystal clear 1080p game like quality for FREE. Yeah, bye bye MLG.
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Sundance still have few days to wait till he posts here that they are lowering the price to $10.
Community would hail him the new hero that saves the e-sports. At the same time in MLG office there will be people opening champaign when they learn that people are happy to pay 10$. Which will be still be enough to earn some money.
To be honest i wouldn't pay even 5$ for Winter Arena. Mainly because:
a) VODS will come a week later
b) no chance i would watch it live (never saw the final of any NA competition) - i value my sleep more than 20$
c) people actually do WORK on mondays so pulling a all-night-er on sunday is out of the question.
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I really wanted to watch my favorit player now that hes finally showing up somewhere, to bad I dont have enough internet money to do so =(
Assembly will at least serve as a bandage ;>
Is there any pool someone can link me with whos watching what between MLG/Assembly? Would be greatly appreciated.
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On February 14 2012 23:42 skeldark wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 23:34 syllogism wrote:On February 14 2012 23:22 skeldark wrote:
Many people act like you do something bad if you dont pay. If something is not free, i don't watch it. Done.
I will not pay a single cent for any sc2 event.
I'm sick of this "let e-sport grow" talk. I don't care for e-sport. I don't care of the business model of tournament organisations.
I don't care if players get 100k price money or nothing.
I want to see good sc2 games, that's all.
If you guys think that this "e-sport" will grow without guys like me you are wrong.
If its not free to watch, only the few "support e-sport" guys will hang in there and it will slowly die.
I think MLG understand that. They just want to milk the "gold" guys as long as possible.
Who do you think will buy this tickets? Only the guys who already buy gsl and mlg gold tickets.
No one else. So basically you are saying that you are a selfish person with likely little income to spend and also think the community is full of people like you. It's possible, in which case the scene will slowly but surely die. What a stellar contribution. No. Im not selfish at all. I dont have little income. Its no problem for me to pay the 20 and i dont think the community is full of people like me. thats 3 misses out of 3. Obvious you just guess around and not even good.
I don't find that particularly believable given your attitude. Your actions point towards my conclusions or assumptions being correct, and it's likely that they are.
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This just shows that 'e-sports' have a long way to go. If the majority of the people here think it has to be free. Nothing in life is free. If you watch tv, you pay for cable and you have 7 minute ad breaks every 15 minutes. When you watch tennis, the organisation makes money from selling tickets, broadcasting rights, merchandise etc.
Why would the so called modern sports be free of charge. It can't happen.
One solution would be an online e-sports tv channel that you have to subcribe to. If all the major tournaments would be shown on that, people would subcribe. Like it is right now, is too much hassle for the consumer. I'm not like some of the kids here that have yet to enter the real world, but I can't be bothered to sign up for all the individual tourneys. If there was a SC2 channel that covered everything, I would sign up no doubt.
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I have no problem with ppv per se, but i have a problem with how it is presented.
You can not pull the "business"-card on me and at the same time appeal to my "for-the-love-of-esports" feelings. That does not work! As a business you have to face competition and not count on charitable fans to throw money at you. If you charge more money than competitors you better deliver a superior product. Otherwise your business model is not sustainable.
At the moment i don't see anything extraordinary about MLG Arena. Good lineup, probably good production value. but where do you excel? What is special about the event, that could justify an added cost? So either there is nothing or your marketing wasn't able to spotlight your unique features enough, which both would be equally bad.
Provide a superior product and people might consider buying it, but don't try to guilt trap people "for the growth of esports".
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On February 14 2012 23:51 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 23:36 Munchkin wrote:
I'm having a hard time understanding the the bit about Gold Membership...
I bought it thinking I'd have access to MLG events for the next year.
Maybe I am not reading this right.. but this is not the case anymore?
What exactly did I pay for ...?
Well, at this point it looks like you and I bought tickets that give us access to about half the content MLG will produce in the coming year, assuming the Arena events continue to be produced.
No. There's 7 arena events and 4 pro circuits. So you get acces to 1/3 of the events. MLG is so greedy it's not even funny. I'm never ever buying gold again. DreamHack provides free HD streams with less ads and better production. Sundance is just really greedy and only in it for the money, getting sick of it. I'll stick to watching the vods/LQ streams.
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You can only charge such amounts when you provide exclusivity. MLG has none, no special players, no special playmode, no cutting edge technologic advantage. Its just annother standard tourney out of many. So this will fail bigtime.
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Stinks of greed to me, I rarely watch MLG's but if I was going to pay to watch a tournament it would be GSL or Dreamhack. I hope it is a costly mistake for them.
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On February 14 2012 23:53 NewK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 23:51 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On February 14 2012 23:36 Munchkin wrote:
I'm having a hard time understanding the the bit about Gold Membership...
I bought it thinking I'd have access to MLG events for the next year.
Maybe I am not reading this right.. but this is not the case anymore?
What exactly did I pay for ...?
Well, at this point it looks like you and I bought tickets that give us access to about half the content MLG will produce in the coming year, assuming the Arena events continue to be produced. No. There's 7 arena events and 4 pro circuits. So you get acces to 1/3 of the events. MLG is so greedy it's not even funny. I'm never ever buying gold again. DreamHack provides free HD streams with less ads and better production. Sundance is just really greedy and only in it for the money, getting sick of it. I'll stick to watching the vods/LQ streams.
You do realize that nobody makes money out of e-sports yet? Things have to change and PPV's are one option, though I prefer seasonal tickets. Still, 20 is too much, I'd be ok with 10
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Reminds me of Bionade. It was a great drink and sold in bottles with the slogan that everything inside the softdrink was healthy. Everyone drank it. Then some greedy managers thought: great, let's increase the price by 50%. We are the market leaders anyway. If like 10% of people stop drinking it, we'll still make a hell of $$$.
End of story: Customers refused to pay that amount of money and sales of the drink got back >90%. Managers apologized but no use.
I hope that MLG will not enounter the same fate. A lot of hard work carried out and done behind the scenes to pull off such an event. However I feel it will miserably fail.
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On February 14 2012 23:34 zomgE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 23:28 ROFLOLLER wrote:On February 14 2012 23:15 CursedFeanor wrote:
holy crap... I expected this thread to be about 50% on each side, but I must say I'm kinda disappointed at the low level of maturity of TL right now... I expected more.
"I don't want to pay some ridiculously low price for something I love!"
grow up kids. *sigh* life is about making choices. everyone here has enough money to afford such product (yes, everyone. just look at your wallet ffs. no 20$ bill there?) as long as they consider it to be worth it more then other stuff, which I certainly do. This is the right move from MLG and I realise now that I'm glad it might rid us of a bunch of spoiled kids such as many of the posters here.
please don't give me the poor student crap... I'm still a student myself and I know what it's like. never met anyone who couldnt afford to hang out on a friday night for a couple of 8$ beers at the bar though... Your one beer would cost me 3 hours of work and my job is still well paid in my country. Best ignore the immature tunnelvisioned (mostly) americans that make those comments-. No reason to pay this much when other similar events have been way less / more content.
I'm a student, in America. I have a part time job that goes to paying for my room and board, since my tuition is covered on a combination of merit and need based aid. I've been 21 for two months, and I've been to a bar once, for one drink because I quite simply cannot afford to do it. kills me every Monday, thursday, friday and saturday when some group of people I know is going to head to a bar, and I have to tell them that I can't come. Just because you live in a bubble, doesn't mean the whole world is the same way.
I spent $20 on dinner, cumulatively from last thursday to today (tuesday). Should I decide to spend $20 on this MLG event, that's 3-5 days that I will not be able to eat dinner.
If I had $20 to drop on events on a regular basis, I would be attending my school's basketball games, heading to a bar for a night, or taking a pretty girl out for dinner. While I do enjoy watching e-sports events, the 3-5 hours of games I would manage to catch live is not at all a suitable choice for something to drop my money on, so I'll catch the more interesting games some time next week when the VODs are up free, and play the rest in the background while I'm studying.
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On February 14 2012 23:52 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 23:42 skeldark wrote:On February 14 2012 23:34 syllogism wrote:On February 14 2012 23:22 skeldark wrote:
Many people act like you do something bad if you dont pay. If something is not free, i don't watch it. Done.
I will not pay a single cent for any sc2 event.
I'm sick of this "let e-sport grow" talk. I don't care for e-sport. I don't care of the business model of tournament organisations.
I don't care if players get 100k price money or nothing.
I want to see good sc2 games, that's all.
If you guys think that this "e-sport" will grow without guys like me you are wrong.
If its not free to watch, only the few "support e-sport" guys will hang in there and it will slowly die.
I think MLG understand that. They just want to milk the "gold" guys as long as possible.
Who do you think will buy this tickets? Only the guys who already buy gsl and mlg gold tickets.
No one else. So basically you are saying that you are a selfish person with likely little income to spend and also think the community is full of people like you. It's possible, in which case the scene will slowly but surely die. What a stellar contribution. No. Im not selfish at all. I dont have little income. Its no problem for me to pay the 20 and i dont think the community is full of people like me. thats 3 misses out of 3. Obvious you just guess around and not even good. I don't find that particularly believable given your attitude. Your actions point towards my conclusions or assumptions being correct, and it's likely that they are.
oh you know me better than i do and that from a internet post. Dam you are good!
im sorry for being selfish and dont pay for something i dont want.
I will change and buy all kind of useless stuff from now on.
This will also make sure that i dont have any money.
Dam you are really good!
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I just checked the Players, half of these are not even Code A Material.
Prizepool is a joke too, maybe dont waste 50K on flying in Code Z players if you have no audience anyway?
20$ for that is a huuuge joke.
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I think it's worth to mentions the the PPV model is only really popular in the US (or north America). Most TV programs in Europe are monthly subscription based and the subscription differs GREATLY from country to country. This makes the PPV stuff look INCREDIBLY over priced and lazy.
I can understand the posters that are used to this model and thus find it reasonable, but that's not the only way of doing things. If all tournaments would do the same, who the fuck would spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars/ euros on watching SC2?
PPV is just that, a very greedy, uncreative and lazy monetizing system that stomps on all possible growth. It should not be encouraged IMO.
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On February 14 2012 23:53 Youtakenocandle wrote:
This just shows that 'e-sports' have a long way to go. If the majority of the people here think it has to be free. Nothing in life is free. If you watch tv, you pay for cable and you have 7 minute ad breaks every 15 minutes. When you watch tennis, the organisation makes money from selling tickets, broadcasting rights, merchandise etc.
Why would the so called modern sports be free of charge. It can't happen.
One solution would be an online e-sports tv channel that you have to subcribe to. If all the major tournaments would be shown on that, people would subcribe. Like it is right now, is too much hassle for the consumer. I'm not like some of the kids here that have yet to enter the real world, but I can't be bothered to sign up for all the individual tourneys. If there was a SC2 channel that covered everything, I would sign up no doubt.
The problem is that the organizers and companies want to act as legitimate businesses, but at the same time they don't want their customers to act as consumers that evaluate the product based on its own merit, and are instead trying to guilt trip them into sympathy for e-sports or whatever.
You can't have it both ways.
In reality, they can't offer a product worth that much money no matter what they do. Most of Starcraft 2 content is limited to watching the actual Starcraft 2 in-game screen and action. Production value, no matter how good it may be, adds little to no extra quality and incentive to buy the product. It's still the same Starcraft, it's still the same players, and everything else is of trivial importance.
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On February 14 2012 23:55 Tarotis wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 23:53 NewK wrote:On February 14 2012 23:51 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On February 14 2012 23:36 Munchkin wrote:
I'm having a hard time understanding the the bit about Gold Membership...
I bought it thinking I'd have access to MLG events for the next year.
Maybe I am not reading this right.. but this is not the case anymore?
What exactly did I pay for ...?
Well, at this point it looks like you and I bought tickets that give us access to about half the content MLG will produce in the coming year, assuming the Arena events continue to be produced. No. There's 7 arena events and 4 pro circuits. So you get acces to 1/3 of the events. MLG is so greedy it's not even funny. I'm never ever buying gold again. DreamHack provides free HD streams with less ads and better production. Sundance is just really greedy and only in it for the money, getting sick of it. I'll stick to watching the vods/LQ streams. You do realize that nobody makes money out of e-sports yet? Things have to change and PPV's are one option, though I prefer seasonal tickets. Still, 20 is too much, I'd be ok with 10
This is a myth. If nobody makes money out of ESPORTs how the hell are we overrun with 10-20k prize money tournaments all around? The scene would not be growing if money weren't all around.
Sponsors invest for the advertising. It's not supposed to directly give them what they invested. The rest of the people in this buisness get payed.
So stop with the charity expression.
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I don't get this change, were they not making enough money from the HD and extra streams or something? I agree with alot of people here, PPV is a terrible business model to adopt, and I will gladly be watching Assembly over it if this is the case.
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EPT
