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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
Bans will be handed out.
Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
On February 14 2012 21:57 herrmus wrote:
20$ is nothing but if more tournaments start doing this it will get start to get expensive, and i wont support that. Homestorycup was only 5€ for even more and better content than mlg ever had and thats a much more reasonable price. E-sports have survived and grown this long without ppv and will continue to do so.
I loved HSC, but more and better than what MLG ever did in 2011 is borderline ridiculous.
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>May Cancel the remaining six if it flops.
Damn Sundance really has to stop begging for money, this is pathetic.
HERPDERP IF YOU DONT BUY THIS MLG + ESPORTS IS RUINED FOREVER.
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eSports is very much still a "niche sport". Charging for the right to view this is too big of a step for MLG and eSports in general. I am all for helping eSports grow, and would gladly pay 20 dollars for it in the future, once they have it mroe figured out. But the MLG in its present state and formula is simply not worth 20 dollars. And to expect your niche audience to shell out 20 bucks to watch a product that is still in its infantsy stage is silly and generally bad business.
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On February 14 2012 20:55 Serelitz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 20:16 Elp wrote:I especially dislike the last sentence of the announcement:
a required step in furthering the growth and success of eSports.
Charging $20 for a weekend of SC2 has nothing to do with growing e-sports, it just a pilot to test a new way of creating income for MLG. MLG is a business and it exists to make money. There's nothing wrong with making money, but don't play the 'Let's grow e-sports together" card when the obvious goal of this PPV model is to grow MLG revenue. This is probably the reason why the MLG Gold Members don't get access to this new content. The people that already have a subscription are the same group of people that are most likely to purchase a $20 dollar ticket. Getting a PPV stream does not attract new customers, it's just a way of getting more money from your current customers. Well yeah but the alternative is no MLG. They need to be self-sustained.
That's true, but becoming self-sustained is an entirely different goal than furthering the growth and success of eSports.
The statement made by MLG would make sense if the success of eSports heavily depends on the financial success of MLG, but it does not, not at all.
eSports is still a niche sport with a relatively small audience, in order for eSports to become more successful and accepted, it requires a larger audience above anything else. A PPV model does not increase the size of the audience, it decreases it in exchange for income. I dare to say a PPV model is actually bad for eSports at this point in time.
A PPV income model should be introduced when eSports has matured and has been accepted by a more mainstream audience. eSports isn't ready yet, and probably won't be for years to come.
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On February 14 2012 21:42 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 21:39 resilve wrote:
MLG provides nothing so special that they deserve to charge a unique and exorbitant fee.
I think we have a duty to show that this business model will not stand, because we can be sure that if MLG weekend events become a success as PPV then so will all the other big ones. A duty? To whom? No one is entitled to free content. If this is what it takes for the esports orgs to be profitable, so be it. Obviously few organizations will actually be able to provide a product people are willing to pay premium for, but it's possible mlg is one of them. Furthermore, they will still host events that are free to watch. I didn't think that there's enough value for me personally at $20, but all this irrational, entitled whining is making me reconsider as I do want it to be a success, with or without my support. What's with entitled stuff? Feels like I've seen that word more the last week than I have in 10 years before that, and I've yet to see it used where it made any sense. Shouldn't we expect sc2 fans to care about what they think it best for them, you know like business supposedly do?
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On February 14 2012 21:31 zaii wrote:Guys we can Force Sundance/MLG to cancel all Arena events if we make this one flop, Would mean no more 20$ and Gold membership wouldn't lose value.![[image loading]](http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p287/zane14785/Flop.jpg)
From the other thread, pretty sinister way of advertising something that's not part of the pro circuit.
![[image loading]](http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7641/wintercircuit.png)
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On February 14 2012 21:58 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 21:31 zaii wrote:Guys we can Force Sundance/MLG to cancel all Arena events if we make this one flop, Would mean no more 20$ and Gold membership wouldn't lose value. It's ridiculous that he won't at least try a lower price and a smaller Arena prize pool before giving up. In his mind, it's $20 or nothing. I really think he should try $10 for the next Arena and reduce prize pool from $26,000 to $10,000 (like MLG pro circuit events last year) if this one underperforms.
My guess would be that he thinks any lower and it wouldn't be enough to fund the remaining Arenas and player travel/hotel, Also Don't think alot of top players will fly out for a 10k prize pool Arena when there's so many events/leagues out there with better money.
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On February 14 2012 22:01 Morrolan wrote:
eSports is very much still a "niche sport". Charging for the right to view this is too big of a step for MLG and eSports in general. I am all for helping eSports grow, and would gladly pay 20 dollars for it in the future, once they have it mroe figured out. But the MLG in its present state and formula is simply not worth 20 dollars. And to expect your niche audience to shell out 20 bucks to watch a product that is still in its infantsy stage is silly and generally bad business.
The problem for me is that this Arena thing is completly unproven ground for MLG, and to give them 20 bucks and hope it is good feels a bit much "Ohhh, praise the esport gooods..." to me.
They should have had a better promotion for this Arena, give people a free sample and build from there. To hammer in 20 bucks in peoples mind the first thing they do is just bad marketing.
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On February 14 2012 22:03 Longshank wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 21:31 zaii wrote:Guys we can Force Sundance/MLG to cancel all Arena events if we make this one flop, Would mean no more 20$ and Gold membership wouldn't lose value. From the other thread, pretty sinister way of advertising something that's not part of the pro circuit.
lol Sundance
He even advertises it as a Pro Circuit Arena, while telling us that it's not part of the Pro Circuit so Gold Memberships shouldn't give you the stream
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On February 14 2012 22:04 zaii wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 21:58 Zzoram wrote:On February 14 2012 21:31 zaii wrote:Guys we can Force Sundance/MLG to cancel all Arena events if we make this one flop, Would mean no more 20$ and Gold membership wouldn't lose value. It's ridiculous that he won't at least try a lower price and a smaller Arena prize pool before giving up. In his mind, it's $20 or nothing. I really think he should try $10 for the next Arena and reduce prize pool from $26,000 to $10,000 (like MLG pro circuit events last year) if this one underperforms. My guess would be that he thinks any lower and it wouldn't be enough to fund the remaining Arenas and player travel/hotel, Also Don't think alot of top players will fly out for a 10k prize pool Arena when there's so many events/leagues out there with better money.
Of course players will fly to Arena for $10,000 prize pool if travel and hotel are covered. The Koreans gladly came to MLGs all last year with those exact conditions.
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On February 14 2012 21:40 Serelitz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 21:31 zaii wrote:Guys we can Force Sundance/MLG to cancel all Arena events if we make this one flop, Would mean no more 20$ and Gold membership wouldn't lose value. I can't even fathom your logic. Taking away the arena events by aggressively trying to let it fail to not let your gold membership 'lose value'? Seriously?
Jesus christ.
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As the costumers its our duty to set the standards of what the cost for the merchandise we consume.
MLG can ask whatever they please for their product , we need to decide if its a good offer or a rip off.
I bought a yearly subscription for the GSL , the amount of content and the quality of it seem good enough for me to want to pay for it , secondly i loved the past MLG events .
But 20$ for one weekend , terrible hours , NO AUDIENCE (big factor of mlg experience i believe) , no alternative free methods .
I don't like that offer i don;t think its a fair one , and i will vote with my purse .
if enough of us will not cave in (very likely i believe) one of two can happen
1) MLG will learn and try and change their business model
2) MLG will consider SC2 as a failure and close it.
i am okay with both cases , since i believe from past and current experience that there are alternatives ,
and someone will pick up the gloves if mlg will drop it.
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Is any big sport/event free to watch? No it isn't. One may argue that esports needs more time to establish before they start using this business model, or the prices has to be lower. _But_ sooner or later for esports to become "big", ppv has to go through.
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so assembly then....
i mean i would gladly pay 5 euros or so but 20? no way -.-
they will get like 10 percent of their viewers
just a horrible idea imo
but we will see...
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On February 14 2012 22:04 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 22:03 Longshank wrote:On February 14 2012 21:31 zaii wrote:Guys we can Force Sundance/MLG to cancel all Arena events if we make this one flop, Would mean no more 20$ and Gold membership wouldn't lose value. From the other thread, pretty sinister way of advertising something that's not part of the pro circuit. lol Sundance He even advertises it as a Pro Circuit Arena, while telling us that it's not part of the Pro Circuit so Gold Memberships shouldn't give you the stream
Yup, the qualifiers for the pro circuit with the same name is not part of the pro circuit. Standard.
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On February 14 2012 21:38 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
And as long as esports fans continue to be taken aback at the thought of charging for content, we will continue in this vicious non-productive cycle that can't sustain itself. The costs of these events aren't covered solely by sponsorship dollars, and even if they were - that's still not a sustainable business model to rely on sponsors to cover everything. You need to bring in new revenue in order to survive as a business, or you're going to go under.
This is correct and something that a lot of people need to understand. On the flip-side though, $20 is a kinda dumb price compared to other deals that are out there  .
The comparisons to GOM should probably come to a screeching halt - GOM was a well-established organization prior to SC2's drop, and is in a country that has a much broader appeal for eSports than MLG is situated in. They're going to be able to cover more through advertisements because their advertisements will have a greater reach in their demographic than in North America or even Europe.
No, they shouldn't. If MLG wants to be a proper business, then it's CUSTOMERS shouldn't give a fuck that the competition is an established company that's in a country with more history, bla bla bla. Because to CUSTOMERS the only thing that should matter is value for money. Guess what? Gom is offering what most would agree is a far superior product, for actually quite a lot less money. GomTV for a year starts at $69, MLG is going to end up at double that for less games with worse players on less frequently.
I'm MORE than happy to buy esports stuff, hell, I'm about to spend $500 more than I need to on a PC upgrade to make sure I'm supporting companies that are supporting esports. I've already bought the GomTV ticket and my ad-blocker is now basically disabled by default - but $20 is not a competitive price in this marketplace. PPV as a concept I have zero problem with and to be honest, people saying esports shouldn't make money or whatever is just an idiot. I fully agree that esports needs to be a business to be successful in the long-term.
However, for a business to be successful it has to either bring something new to the table, blow away the competition with price or features/performance/entertainment or be competitive on everything in a new market. MLG is about ready to deliver a product that leads in no categories and in fact trails the market leader in ALL categories. Historically this has not worked out well and I can't imagine why this would be any different.
If MLG needs to charge a $20 PPV fee, that is fine, but they need to be delivering something more than twice as good as the GSL, which they are not on-track to do (although I guess they will have huk...)
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To all the people complaining about $20 dollars being way too much for the content that may be true, if they lowered it even to say $10-$12 it might work a bit better.....but there is an alarming number of people that don't give any reasons at all and are just saying "$20 too high omg bullshit ripoff MLG FUUU".
The next time you spend $20 on something for yourself, say a couple of beers and a few packets of chips or whatever think to yourself....is this going to equal 20 hours of entertainment?? I won't be buying the pass as most of the time it is on i will be working but i am getting more and more tempted to buy it anyway. How the fuck is eSports supposed to grow if everyone are tight-arse whiny bitches about anything that costs money?? We need to overcome that first hurdle, events like this are the stepping stone to getting Sc2 more mainstream, more viewers, more teams, higher sponsorship, larger events with larger prizepools. People are getting almost everything for free and don't see a need to pay for it even though nothing is free. SOMEONE ELSE IS PAYING FOR YOUR FREE PRODUCT, THEREFORE WHILE YOU DON'T PAY SOMEONE ELSE DOES, either directly or indirectly it is costing someone, somewhere money. If a larger number of people are paying a smaller amount of money than that person will be able to provide more content etc etc
Rant over, bring on the hate
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On February 14 2012 22:07 sVnteen wrote:
so assembly then....
i mean i would gladly pay 5 euros or so but 20? no way -.-
they will get like 10 percent of their viewers
just a horrible idea imo
but we will see...
Correction, they will get 10 percent of their already paying viewers.
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It's kinda fun that MLG is oh so professional but failed to check that Assembly is on the same weekend... But well, I guess Assembly/Asus Rog is just like the 3d biggest EU Toruney (after the Dreamhacks and IEM Finals). I totally understand how a professional business could oversee this.
I mean, i understand that you need to charge 20$.. When you fly players from around the world to the US just to let them play at a tournament whiteout audience... ... ... WTF did you consume before you took that decision? :p
Serously, who's idea was this and who tought.. Yeah, that sounds smart and reasonable?
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lol at all the armchair lawyers and free business lessons in this thread.
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EPT
