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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.
Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. |
On February 11 2012 02:49 Yonnua wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 02:45 Bashion wrote:On February 11 2012 02:42 CyDe wrote:On February 11 2012 02:38 magnaflow wrote:
I feel that 1 more small change could make this perfect. Make fungal slow units, not trap them in place. THIS. I've always thought this, even if it the movement speed is reduced INSANELY, but just make it possible, to move, at least a little. Definitely for air units, anyway. I agree. I dont play Terran, but its kinda sad to see a bunch of viking getting destroyed by a few fungals. Yes, you can spread them, but its no that simple, especially because units in SC2 clump a lot. Maybe fungal should damage air units, but not trap them. Put your vikings in separate hotkeys. Fungal stopping units moving is not a problem in any match up. It fulfils it's role perfectly. If you overextend with your vikings trying to kill something, then zerg needs a way to deal with it. Infested terrans would take too long to spawn and hydras are too slow / bad. Zerg would be unable to push against vikings without fungal growth in its current state.
Zergs can easily outproduce your viking production with their "hatch 30 corruptors at once" -stuff. You need like 8 Starports with reactors to keep up with that.
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I think it's a pretty bad time to buff PvZ even more, considering how the matchup has been doing at the top level (in GSL.) But the snipe nerf is very good, and with the +psionnic damage it will still fulfill the role that blizzard probably intended it to, sniping other casters.
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phoenix range upgrade... omg... :D
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Nice looking patch  I like it.
But the real question is...
What will be the pheonix upgrade's icon? :O
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6 RANGE PHOENIX ?
Ohhhhhh blizz your making me a very happy man
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I don't understand all the people complaining that ghosts will be useless without 45 damage snipe.
If you remove the can opener from a swiss army knife, it's still a fucking swiss army knife.
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Has anyone used raven missle against Broolords? It's not like they can run away from them.. : D
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There is no way this snipe patch is going through.
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no changes for colussus or storm? guess they want protoss to win a GSL first
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On February 11 2012 02:39 PaterPatriae wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 02:33 JeffGoldblum wrote:On February 11 2012 02:31 archangel967 wrote:On February 11 2012 02:29 JeffGoldblum wrote:
Sometimes I seriously think David Kim was born with birth defects. "We think Infestor Queen Broodlord wasn't strong enough so DURR LETS NERF THE GHOST HEUEHEUEHE" "OH SHIT A COUPLE OF PROTOSSES IN PRO PLAY HAVE HAD ISSUES RECENTLY WITH MUTAS ON MAPS THAT MUTAS ARE A GOOD CHOICE BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T GO STARGATE oh also phoenixes weren't good enough with their auto micro. So now all tosses will go stargate and no zergs will go spire tech which will lead to tosses blind countering ultras and make the game fucking stupid YAAAY IMA SMART GAME DESIGNER!!" lolumad? Terrans have to change their play-style finally. What a shame. This change will be good for all matchups and should yield some awesome games in the coming months as progamers adjust. Change to what!? Vikings? Inferstor corruptor says hi! what about the new (mass) raven late game O.O HSM is pretty sick. Oh wait terran never discovered the raven 
Hsm is strong. But it isnt viable in a high level game. 125 energy, 200 gas per raven and the upgrade for hsm. If your going to mass them and have enough energy for HSM your going to need to get the raven energy which is more gas. So your losing all of this gas that you could have been spending on upgrades, vikings, medivacs, tanks most importantly. Not to mention it means you need another starport if you want to make vikings or medivacs, so that is another 100 gas.
Another problem with the mass raven style is that when you run out of energy you are completely useless. So you have 1 huge push that has to put you in a position to win the game or you lose. The time it takes to build up 125 energy again means that you are too susceptible to a counter attack if you don't kill them. Even Idra on inside the game said something along the lines that ravens were not viable but hsm was strong.
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Lol. Us Terrans will still keep rolling over zergs and toss and people will still complain. I Promise that
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While those koreans T players still playing like gods, we regular players will be *******.
The snipe nerf is very huge.
Ok Terran players, lets fight that splitting the hell of our armies against the 1A.
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Well, i get buffed, T gets nerfed.... i guess its fine
Would like to see the phoenix upgrade earlier but i guess you could just rush fb and cross finger they don't go for super greedy 3rd adn 4th with 6 gas drones each after the first muta is out.
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On February 11 2012 02:49 Lonyo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 02:45 BeeNu wrote:On February 11 2012 02:41 Lonyo wrote:
The Phoenix change is terrible. Basically making mutalisks + corruptors won't do anything because you will NEVER be able to hit the Phoenixes.
Since they made the range 6, which is equal to a corruptor, the corruptor is slow, so your mutalisks will have to move at the speed of the corruptors, for fear of getting ahead. If they get ahead, Phoenixes will get free hits on the mutalisks, and the corruptors will NEVER be able to hit the Phoenixes, because they can run away before the slow corruptors get in range.
Range of 6 is too much. The idea in principle is fine, but 6 range is too much because of the range of the corruptor. This makes Phoenix now hard counter mutalisks with the upgrade AND still counter muta + corruptor.
What are corruptors supposed to be useful for? Anti air.
Now they will only be viable against colossi, since they get destroyed by voidrays, and phoenixes can hit and flee targets before the corruptors get in range, unless you limite the mutalisks to the speed of the corruptors, which is impossible.
Increase phoenix range, fine. But don't make it equal to corruptors. It's a Fleet Beacon upgrade, by the time they have that range you should be able to afford an Infestor or two to help snag Phoenix so it won't ever truly be a hard counter. Infestors with their nerfed fungal range of 7? The phoenixes will barely ever get in range, unless your mutalisks are hanging back, in which case THEY are not attacking. Zerg ranges: Hydralisk: 6 Corruptor: 6 Queen: 7 Fungal: 7 Phoenix with upgrade: 6. The thing is Phoenixes now will barely need to even get in rage of the zerg unit which can attack them in order to do damage. That means that they will be able to dominate any air units sent even a couple of steps forward of any support units, and due to every single one of the above units being SLOW relative to phoenixes, that makes the problem even more obvious. Zerg speeds: Queen: 0.9/2.5 Hydralisk: 2.25/3.375 Infesestor: 2.25/2.92 Corruptor: 2.93 Phoenix: 4.25 (can shoot while moving) See the problem? Zerg units can't close the gap quickly, AND they don't have the range to engage. Even on creep.
Do you realize that the protoss player will need a fleet beacon, then research the upgrade?
Its not free. It gives zerg enough time to transition or do enough economical damage with mutas the switch to something else.
Dude, a fleet beacon costs 300/200. Plus the upgrade...and you still have to make phoenix.
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So basically muta vs phoenix is now like
10 prema-stimmed marauders that recharge shields and attack while moving vs 20 roaches
The muta are going to melt so fast lol
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On February 11 2012 02:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 02:43 antilyon wrote:On February 11 2012 02:38 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2012 02:31 antilyon wrote:On February 11 2012 02:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2012 02:24 Stiluz wrote:
Yey, a good balance patch! Ghosts still viable lategame vs Zerg, but does not destroy both BL and Ultras as fast as before. Protoss gets a bit more efficient for dealing with Mutas. Everybody's happy now :D I agree. Ghosts will still be far from useless. EMP is still very important, despite the nerf it got. Snipe will still be vital, despite the nerf it's getting now too. I just think that now, Terran will need to be a bit more selective on what to snipe in an army, instead of "fuck it, everything!" ^^ Give me 1 reason to make ghosts instead of vikings against BL now. The only reason to make ghosts in TvZ now is EMP for infestors. And it will be 2 or 4 max. 1. For the possible tech switch, and because it's still not bad against them. 2. Because you can afford to build both ghosts and vikings? I play Protoss, so don't talk to me about spending gas. Heck, Terran is the least gas-dependent race in the game. 3. Because ghosts are still all-around good. Zerg rarely has *only* broodlords. Ghosts are very good against multiple units. 4. So what if you don't build a ghost in a game? That doesn't mean they're useless. If you're assuming that you should be able to build any unit you want and it should be useful against any unit composition your opponent has, you've been spoiled for too long by your race. I can afford to make both, but why bother?If I try to hit 19 snipes to kill one single BL, by that time my marines would be all dead if the zerg attacks at the same time. Did you realize a marauder shot does more damage than a snipe now? Then make marauders in those specific situations >.> What's your point? Are you claiming that ghosts are useless? That snipe is useless? Snipe still does bonus damage to certain units. Figure out which cases it's best to make ghosts and use snipe, and do that. They still exist. You have more units besides marauders and ghosts, by the way. Maybe you should learn to have a more well-rounded unit composition. Just because you can't auto-kill everything with just ghosts doesn't mean that they're pointless now. Ghosts- like all units- should have important niches where their skills should be useful... they shouldn't be great at everything.
Exactly my point, snipe is now useless in TvZ.
And they only work against templar on TvP.
Snipe is also usless in TvT now.
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WHy is it that zerg and toss get a brutal ass area of effect spell that can just mruder entire clumps of units butwe get one measly snipe, and an ALREADY nerfed EMP. Seriosuly EMP now is almost just as useless as snipe is going to be.
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Apart from the need to rebalance the infestor (if the ghost change went through), I agree with mules on gold minerals and the upgrade for the phoenix.
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so that means snipe on zealots are completely almost meaningless since regular shot alrdy does 19 dmg to them
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EPT
