Since I've been in NYC we've been broadcasting a lot of matches for our MLG Winter Online Qualifiers. We just wrapped up the European portion of the tournament (all VODs up) and tonight we go live with the Korean bracket at 7p.m. EST over at MLG.tv.
The reason for this post is I'm looking for feedback to take to the video production team. On a daily basis, we're trying to improve the broadcast and provide useful information / graphics for you guys, but we need your help!
It is incredibly awesome if you guys are able to communicate to us that you like what you're seeing / you hate what you're seeing and what you want to see in addition to.
Also, feel free to shoot any (constructive) casting feedback my way to via this post!
Thanks so much guys and see you guys on-air
Edit: We're aware of the European qualifier time slot and plan to make a change for future EU qualifiers. Sorry about that.
It's pretty damn cool, but I wonder if you could set up the "stream player" like you have on the Pro Circuit where you can rewind the vod in the player as it streams? Would go a long way for those not being able to catch the whole thing live.
Time of the EU Qualifier was really shite if you want to keep a normal schedule. Don't care too much for the qualifiers in the other regions... looking forward to the show-down
Instead of bitching about shitty broadcast times (which do suck for europeans) I used this cool invention called VOD for a few of those games and had a good time listening to the casting (keep in mind I only watched the casts with apollo thus far, can't really say anything about those with pumba (?) ). Maybe some more stats about players, their matchups, how they do on what map etc. (similiar to what gsl has been doing since this season) would be nice, but all in all I was pretty happy with the production quality in general, especially given that all of it was free in decent quality. I guess I'll be able to say more once I watch more as the korean qualifier is the one I care about the most by far.
The adds on the right of the screen cycles a little too fast, its distracting, if it was slower it would be fine, thats the only thing i can think about that i didnt like, the rest of the production was good and the casting also good.
I for one, thought it was great. Really glad MLG let Tumba on to cast with you. He deserves the attention and in my opinion did fantastic. If possible, maybe less breaks in between games...I understand you gotta get replays setup and what not but I found myself losing interest.
Other than that, amazing work and I can't wait to see more in the coming days.
The only negatives I noticed was sometimes there would be some video lag, usually when you (JP) were talking to someone via Skype and had the other person's face on the main stream (this might be an issue with the other person's internet or Skype being crappy, so this might not be something you can fix on the fly). The other thing I noticed was sometimes during the live stream the video or audio would lag behind the player for a few seconds, but my internet has been pretty crappy the past few weeks so that might not be an MLG issue.
Otherwise, great work overall, can't wait for NA and KR games.
On February 10 2012 06:27 Lorch wrote: Instead of bitching about shitty broadcast times (which do suck for europeans) I used this cool invention called VOD for a few of those games and had a good time listening to the casting (keep in mind I only watched the casts with apollo thus far, can't really say anything about those with pumba (?) ).
If you are working and using obvious sources like TL, twitter, reddit for your daily fix of SC2 it's kinda hard to motivate yourself watching VODs when you already now the results. But that's just my oppinion.
Noone has been "bitching" about "shitty" times - i just like to watch games as they happen (.. to be casted from replays ).
I think it would be cool if you offered beta streams for gold members like at the events for casters that you are giveing a shot to see if they are good or not.
I'm not sure I know what could be improved from a production standpoint, but for some reason I had a really hard time watching the european qualifiers. I don't know why, but I couldn't really get into it, unlike other MLG productions. The commentating felt very watered down and wasn't very exciting.
Aside from my own inane bitching, it would've been helpful to be able to see the updated brackets and really have a better grasp of how the qualifier was progressing. It felt like just a handful of matches with us being told "these are to qualify". Also if measures could be taken to avoid everyone knowing the results 2 weeks before you broadcast the games, it would be more exciting. I know that isn't always possible, but I didn't look very hard and I already know who qualified in the korean and NA bracket so the experience will be a bit diminished. Not sure what you can do about that though.
On February 10 2012 06:27 Lorch wrote: Instead of bitching about shitty broadcast times (which do suck for europeans) I used this cool invention called VOD for a few of those games and had a good time listening to the casting (keep in mind I only watched the casts with apollo thus far, can't really say anything about those with pumba (?) ). Maybe some more stats about players, their matchups, how they do on what map etc. (similiar to what gsl has been doing since this season) would be nice, but all in all I was pretty happy with the production quality in general, especially given that all of it was free in decent quality. I guess I'll be able to say more once I watch more as the korean qualifier is the one I care about the most by far.
because they had a band aid fix for the problem means the problem isnt worth fixing, amazing logic.
1 thing id like to see on mlg productions (and streams in general) is that in a set up like this, you know the games and the players well before hand, but it honestly sounds like your reading off stats and facts about them off liquipedia as you broadcast.
if you could take some notes during the day before broadcast, maybe prepare an interesting fact or 2 and have it written down and/or memorised. i think it would make the talk and the chat between you feel more smooth. maybe you do this already, well then id just suggest a bit more rehersal time, if you have the time to spare that is.
Tumba and JP need a bit of time to get more chemistry together, but Tumba's excitment and NFL voice is honestly a refreshing contrast to JP's monotone. I also agree with turdburgler (+ Show Spoiler +
On February 10 2012 06:54 turdburgler wrote: if you could take some notes during the day before broadcast, maybe prepare an interesting fact or 2 and have it written down and/or memorised. i think it would make the talk and the chat between you feel more smooth. maybe you do this already, well then id just suggest a bit more rehersal time, if you have the time to spare that is.
), I know y'all have the facts beforehand, just work on delivery. That will probably come as chemistry improves though.
Europeans don't just want the EU qualifer's times to be better, we want all the shows times to be more europe friendly .
Another quick thing, I'm no production expert but the lighting you have in the studio is too relaxing for me, red and dimmed kinda dulled the excitement also at least during the finals your blue shirt clashes pretty horribly with the ambient red glow.
I thought the production and stream quality were excellent, no complaints there.
However, I think you should put more thought in the caster selection. JP + Apollo was excellent, but JP + Tumba was kinda just 2 play-by-play casters doing their thing and the dynamic just didnt work. I can understand that getting Day9 to cast in the middle of the week is easier said than done, but still that's the one complaint I have about the EU invitationals, the casting could have been better.
I thought the entire thing was amazing. I can't wait to see more and more content from MLG--2012 is the year of MLG!
I'm so glad to see Tumba getting more and more exposure on the internets! I don't know if it was just the relocation blues (due to moving to NYC) but it seemed like something was eating at JP and he didn't have the energy that Tumba did. I was having to work most of the time that it was on so I was keeping the stream in the background but I never felt like I didn't know what was going on because of the experienced and energetic casting... even if it was a little bit one sided.
Don't mean to say anything bad about JP--I can't wait to see more content and I am sure he is going to be amazing in the next thing he casts but I think that Tumba clearly did a better job this weekend.
Don't have anything to say about the visuals because, as I said, I mostly just listened.
On February 10 2012 07:24 Bagi wrote: I thought the production and stream quality were excellent, no complaints there.
However, I think you should put more thought in the caster selection. JP + Apollo was excellent, but JP + Tumba was kinda just 2 play-by-play casters doing their thing and the dynamic just didnt work. I can understand that getting Day9 to cast in the middle of the week is easier said than done, but still that's the one complaint I have about the EU invitationals, the casting could have been better.
I actually found I couldn't stand Apollo and JP together. They are pretty good casters by themselves (JP is better though ) but as a casting team I feel like they really lack the energy that is provided by someone like Day9, Husky, or Tasteless.
but since i'm european, i only watch the VODs and the MLG video player has always been terrible for me. i appreciate the nice quality for free, but i have to refresh every video ~10 times and hit HD each time until it actually plays in HD rather than medium, or sometimes even randomly low. not sure if others have this problem.
On February 10 2012 06:20 itmeJP wrote: It is incredibly awesome if you guys are able to communicate to us that you like what you're seeing / you hate what you're seeing and what you want to see in addition to.
Also, feel free to shoot any (constructive) casting feedback my way to via this post!
Thanks so much guys and see you guys on-air
Edit: We're aware of the European qualifier time slot and plan to make a change for future EU qualifiers. Sorry about that.
Production seemed solid the few times I could watch so late at night. That huge MLG overlay in the top center sometimes blocks the production tab when a lot of stuff is produced. That's a minor issue, but on the other hand, that thing really doesn't need to be THAT huge.
As for casting feedback/criticism, the usual. Way too many "Uhs" and overuse of words, plus "going to be" and "will" for stuff that's just happened or is happening right now. I dont think, the player in the upper right is "going to be" MouzThorzain, I believe he already is. Same for "...will clean that attack up." just when the attacker has just lost his last unit.
That's not to you specifically, JP. 95% of casters do that, that's why I said, the usual. Wanna be the first one to eliminate these no-nos from your vocabulary?
The biggest problem I had was the colors and top score bar the first night. They didn't line up and you showed mirror match-ups (a light blue zerg shown as blue, and a blue zerg shown as red, is terrible) and it was incredibly confusing. It was fixed the next day, and has been since. Any urgent feedback has already been given and solved, which is why MLG is so great.
The best thing you've done is pick a european caster (Apollo) to team up with for the casts. He's far more familiar with the players and what they've been up to locally than any traditional, american MLG caster would be. I assume you're picking one of the english casters in Korea for the matches this week, and then falling back to well, anyone, for the north american games. If so -- well done.
- The broadcast was too many days after the games were played. I already knew the results of the Millenium team which were the ones I wanted to watch.
- I wanted to watch more games from the losers' bracket. That's the interresting part about double elimination is that you can follow players that lost early. But here you only showed the final games of the losers' bracket so it lost its charm.
- You should have cast alternatively losers brackets games and winners bracket games in my opinion, because in a real tournament that's the chronology. It increases the feeling that games happened a long time ago.
- I don't really like when each caster says he root for a player because that sounds fake. If one caster says he roots for a player that's cool but I don't like when the 2nd one says "ok if you pick this player I'll pick the other player". Especially since you probably know the results or at least if it was a 2-1 or 2-0 series.
- The most important part : make your overlay in the same way Starcraft 2 shows players. If in starcraft 2 the scoreboard shows this player on the left don't put him on the right in your overlay !!! Because our brain is very confused if the player on the left of the screen isn't who your overlay says he is. Also don't forget players' colors but you fixed it on day 2.
I made a picture that explains how your overlays should be and it is also how Starcraft 2 displays the score. Check the demos if you have time and you'll see sc2 shows the score in a better way than the mlg stream. + Show Spoiler +
Ps : I don't like when casters start talking by saying "I mean" but I know that's not on purpose :/
I don't have any major qualms on the production side of things, the games were clean and easy to watch for the most part and the transitions were good. I agree with the idea above of making sure that the overlays match up with the side that the player spawns on and their color. Small things like that go a long way. I realize it can be frustrating when the players spawn on different sides or use different colors throughout a match, but going that extra mile will make the production appear much cleaner overall.
I'd also prefer avoiding the full screening of the caster currently talking between games because while that is effective in a podcast environment, I don't feel like it's suitable with the back and forth that should be going on between the casters during the lull before the next game. Keep the casters on the same screen and keep a dialogue going as opposed to question then answer.
That psuedo-complaint also applies to the casting. It felt a lot like JP was just asking questions and making comments of his own without any real dialogue or discussion happening consistently. This was applicable for when he was paired up with dApollo and Tumba. It seemed like the two latter mentioned casters were trying hard to keep dialogue going, but were having a rough time of it. That's something that I think should be promoted and I commend dApollo and Tumba for that and I hope the casting moves more into that direction in the future. Excitement too. Excitement and interest. dApollo and Tumba in particular seemed to really be into the matches and I wasn't seeing that echoed.
Other than that, I thought that the qualifier overall was excellent. Great games all around and I look forward to seeing how the event progresses. Despite not being an EU resident, I'll just echo the sentiment that it would be best to cater to the EU folks first and the rest of us second for their qualifier. At the very least they should be accommodated in some fashion may it be rebroadcast or better times overall.
All I know is the cast tonight is pretty bad. It's the Korean qualifier and they have a kid that appears to be 12 and in his bedroom that said he didn't know the Korean scene during a game. IEM has Bitter, Rotterdam, Rob Simpson MLG has a little kid that obviously doesn't know the match ups or players. He speaks waay to fast also. Here is a fact, He never said code S or code A once during the cast. MLG you really need to step it up.
I may sound critical, but being nice cause you are MLG won't help you improve. I would love to meet the genius that said, yeah lets put this guy on.
The studio looks very good, and the over all production is great. But do these matches justice its Korea man! JP has to be frustrated.
I have a small suggestion for your brackets: please don't add 0-2 scores for players that actually didn't played their matches. Just post it as 1-0 or w/o. For example in the EU qualifier, XlorD and Bigs gave walkovers, but on the MLG bracket there's no mention of that.
If MarineKing goes 0-2 early in the winner bracket and 0-2 in the loser bracket, there's no way for us to know if he actually played in those matches.
It would be nice if you guys made the top bar displaying the player names had a little cutoff at the bottom so you could show the supply from each player from the blizzard name plates thing. It's a little hard to see the supplies in the top corner unless you're full screen ;_;
the one big thing that makes me sad at times while watching an MLG stream is that you see the same things over and over again on breaks. It would be awesome if you guys could get some new content to put into the breaks. i know it's hard to get the production staff to work on that type of stuff but there are a lot of great things out there you could use to fill those gaps (after you get in the stuff you have to so the sponsers are happy lol)
On February 10 2012 11:07 lordselthon wrote: the one big thing that makes me sad at times while watching an MLG stream is that you see the same things over and over again on breaks. It would be awesome if you guys could get some new content to put into the breaks. i know it's hard to get the production staff to work on that type of stuff but there are a lot of great things out there you could use to fill those gaps (after you get in the stuff you have to so the sponsers are happy lol)
Can't agree with this more. There is so much content possibility that if you just have like 2 people dedicated to it they could fill up hours upon hours of content I'm sure. It'd be a full time job sure, but worth it? hell yes.
On February 10 2012 10:50 Tracers wrote: I'm not usually very critical of casters but Robin really in my opinion shouldn't be at this level of casting exposure. The chat was going insane, and it just got me to thinking - people need to speak up about what they like and don't like. And to be honest I think MLG needs to continue on it's path of success and put out only the best and quality casters - Robin is unfortunately not up to par in my opinion.
Robin speaks so fast, I can't understand a word he's saying...how is that enjoyable? Had the same issue when he was on the beta streams, I supported him then...it was a big venue, nerves - whatever...tonight for the KR qualifiers there shouldn't be any excuse especially since he got panned so hard, and seems to have completely disregarded all criticism and kept blasting along at 1000 miles an hour, and game knowledge doesn't really seem to have improved either, aside from Zerg which he knows pretty well, but obviously casters need to be pretty aware of all 3 races.
I really don't mean to be offensive but if eSports is to grow and we all have to do our part, criticising is a big part of that so that the people who do work hard to put out content, continue to strive to be better.
^ That sums it up best. As stated I watched every night and I couldn't get through it tonight it was that bad. I expect much better from MLG. I hate to say it, but Robin ruined the cast for me. I was very much looking forward the the Korean Qualifier too. I don't feel like MLG takes SC2 seriously unless they are at a live event.
Robins lisp - don't notice it Talks to fast - maybe fast but I can always here what he is saying, would be cool if he only ramped up when the fight was going down. (like real sport commentators) Knowledge - Insane! This guy has the watch some serious amount of Starcraft, always predicts the coolest builds and if they are used more on one region etc some pretty cool stuff to get as a viewer.
Gotten shit because he didn't cover up the background so you can see that he casts from his bedroom... Seriously? Has Starcraft fallen to a shitty low that if we don't see a professional studio the sky falls down?
Was just watching some games from EU qualifier because i was interested in the players. But switched off this KOR quali after 3 mins.
This feels like its a torture for JP and the other guy to cast games. Just get any random 2 sc2 casters and they will do it better. 0 excitement. 0 passion. Nowadays theres always 5 sc2 tournament any time of the day. To stand out you just need to entertain more..
just a few things i want to say here ( i really hope you guys answer) first off i think you guys do a great job and i enjoy watching every night, that being said i would like to inquire about 2 things, 1] where do you guys get your music for the commercials? i love the electro/dubstep/sweeeetness that you guys play, it makes me like commercials. and 2] how does one go about becoming a broadcaster for eSports? ive been told by many people i have a broadcaster type voice and wouold be INCREDIBLEY interested in looking deeper into this. thank you for your time and once again i think you guys are doing great, keep up the work :D
Thanks for the feedback. I have been working hard as hell in slowing down my speech, but the sudden shock of hopping into casting a huge stream at last minute seemed to have hit me pretty hard. I am sorry for the fast speech and hope to have the chance to show what I can do when I do slow down.
As for my room...Sorry man, its where I live and I have a roomate, so a quiet place for me to cast is pretty hard to find. Next time I get to cast, ill rent out a whole venue and decorate it to your liking :p
With that, thanks for the feedback from everyone and a HUGE thank you to MLG for allowing me to be on their stream. The kindness from this team is amazing and it was an honor to cast with JP.
If I know robin, he has read every single post criticizing him. He will not stop until he gets better and I guarantee you guys will see improvement from him in the future. This guy is a blast and a half to cast with and I personally can't wait to see more from him.
Loved the cast today Robin!! The amount of information and attention to detail was by far what I appreciated the most. As players are getting better and better the wins are going to be found in the small details and the rate at which you were able to send massive amounts of information through the case was awesome.
Additionally, there are far too many times when I can hear a Korean casting team in the background of a tournament or from a replay and envy at the crazy energy and excitement in their voice. Even simple early pressure sounds like a potentially game ending engagement is about to occure and I can't get enought of it! I got a very strong sense of that from you today. Now I believe there was also possibly a little bit of frantic mixed in with the energy, but I have no doubt that could be smoothed over and lead to an even better cast.
Again great job today! I thoroughly enjoyed it and can't wait to see more casting from you, as I know if I tune in I will be guided to a lot of detail I otherwise wouldn't have notice, consequently learning a ton about the game I love, and engulfed with an infectious amount of energy. Thank you dude.
All I know is the cast tonight is pretty bad. It's the Korean qualifier and they have a kid that appears to be 12 and in his bedroom that said he didn't know the Korean scene during a game. IEM has Bitter, Rotterdam, Rob Simpson MLG has a little kid that obviously doesn't know the match ups or players. He speaks waay to fast also. Here is a fact, He never said code S or code A once during the cast. MLG you really need to step it up.
I may sound critical, but being nice cause you are MLG won't help you improve. I would love to meet the genius that said, yeah lets put this guy on.
(for anyone who had seen the reddit thread, I posted something similar, I just feel strongly enough to add this in both places)
Oh my goodness, IEM has Pro Casters. Good, but where did all the Pro casters come from? Did they begin that way? Pretty sure not. If no one EVER gave them a chance in any spotlight, they would not BE where they are now. I thank MLG for their community caster group because THATS how you grow something. You give people chances and opportunities from which to learn and grow so that they can further contribute.
As for the '12-yr-old in his room' comment you made - I seem to recall a very popular caster who does a show FROM his room where you can see just about everything in the background. It was hard to tell that was a bedroom where Robin was - just looked like a white wall with a door to me, but maybe I'm missing something.
From what I understand, (from his twitter post I saw) Robin was asked to cast at the last minute. NOT the last week, day, or even hour, but the very last MINUTE because Wolf was unable. And as far as Playhem's "better" casters - It's very possible they were not available either, though I do wonder by whose judgement makes anyone "better" than the next?
I watch Playhem, and I've heard Robin cast quite a few times, and do other broadcasts with them. I've heard him tell some people in the chat that he has a full time job as well, and casts playhem something like 20-25 hours a week. There are not a lot of code A or code S players who join Playhem tournaments on a daily basis - you know - with playing in gsl and all. OF COURSE Robin's not going to have a vast knowledge of the Korean scene if he's spending every awake hour either casting EU and NA players OR working to make a living. The fact that he came on to cast at the last minute was great in itself, because he may well have broken OTHER plans for the evening to do so - and that just further grounds his dedication to the community.
Obviously, your opinions are yours, IFgogogosu, and I'm not trying to sell you on anything, but I hope someone else who might read this will agree, and see that what MLG is doing is great for the community as a whole, because they are putting their neck on the line and giving people chances to shine/improve/grow esports.
All I know is the cast tonight is pretty bad. It's the Korean qualifier and they have a kid that appears to be 12 and in his bedroom that said he didn't know the Korean scene during a game. IEM has Bitter, Rotterdam, Rob Simpson MLG has a little kid that obviously doesn't know the match ups or players. He speaks waay to fast also. Here is a fact, He never said code S or code A once during the cast. MLG you really need to step it up.
I may sound critical, but being nice cause you are MLG won't help you improve. I would love to meet the genius that said, yeah lets put this guy on.
(for anyone who had seen the reddit thread, I posted something similar, I just feel strongly enough to add this in both places)
Oh my goodness, IEM has Pro Casters. Good, but where did all the Pro casters come from? Did they begin that way? Pretty sure not. If no one EVER gave them a chance in any spotlight, they would not BE where they are now. I thank MLG for their community caster group because THATS how you grow something. You give people chances and opportunities from which to learn and grow so that they can further contribute.
As for the '12-yr-old in his room' comment you made - I seem to recall a very popular caster who does a show FROM his room where you can see just about everything in the background. It was hard to tell that was a bedroom where Robin was - just looked like a white wall with a door to me, but maybe I'm missing something.
From what I understand, (from his twitter post I saw) Robin was asked to cast at the last minute. NOT the last week, day, or even hour, but the very last MINUTE because Wolf was unable. And as far as Playhem's "better" casters - It's very possible they were not available either, though I do wonder by whose judgement makes anyone "better" than the next?
I watch Playhem, and I've heard Robin cast quite a few times, and do other broadcasts with them. I've heard him tell some people in the chat that he has a full time job as well, and casts playhem something like 20-25 hours a week. There are not a lot of code A or code S players who join Playhem tournaments on a daily basis - you know - with playing in gsl and all. OF COURSE Robin's not going to have a vast knowledge of the Korean scene if he's spending every awake hour either casting EU and NA players OR working to make a living. The fact that he came on to cast at the last minute was great in itself, because he may well have broken OTHER plans for the evening to do so - and that just further grounds his dedication to the community.
Obviously, your opinions are yours, IFgogogosu, and I'm not trying to sell you on anything, but I hope someone else who might read this will agree, and see that what MLG is doing is great for the community as a whole, because they are putting their neck on the line and giving people chances to shine/improve/grow esports.
Thanks MLG.
1.) you are part of the playhem machine as stated on Reddit here: http://www.reddit.com/user/PtPrkr 2.) This Robin guy is a league of legends player not an SC2 player: http://i.imgur.com/SW8pl.jpg 3.) You have your own motive because you think you have an "in" with MLG 4.) These people said it best imho b/c it is the truth WITHOUT MOTIVE other than improvement of stream:
TerranTerror1 ok 1 are you actually comparing this Robin guy to Day9? Really? I don't care how you try and package it. This is lipstick on a pig. That cast was bad no matter how you cut it. It was a BAD LOOK for MLG. If they want to give community people a chance then do it with a small event geared toward people that want to watch that. NOT A KOREAN QUALIFIER FOR MLG! To me it seems like MLG is moving backwards. How do they not have the connections to get some other caster? Who's judgement makes anyone "better" how about the majority of fans? Case in point... since you compared this guy to Day 9 I will do my own comparison. A poll goes up who would you rather have cast this Korean qualifier Artosis or Gretorp. Is Artosis going to win hands down? Yes because he is a better caster. Nothing against Gretorp just the way it is. Not everyone is cut out to cast for MLG, however you wouldn't know it from day 1 of the Korean Qualifier. I want to point out I don't think any of this is Robins fault per say. What was he going to say no MLG I don't want to do this. No it's MLG's fault for taking someone totally unprepared and thrusting them into a situation they aren't ready for. We saw it at NASL and IPL too. As an avid GSL watcher I can tell you that cast was horrible and it's MLG's fault not Robins. Someone screwed up bad.
SuperPandas I understand the motive to bring on new casters and feature new people, but I think you can probably screen them a bit better. Robin doesn't belong on an MLG stream IMHO - MLG is known for top notch production value, casting and games. No offense to Robin seriously but dude you got a lot of good feedback from the beta streams and it just sounds like you tossed it all out the fucking window. If a caster doesn't listen to his listeners and improve, I don't see a place for them in the spotlight. Just my opinion.
Stimme Seriously MLG what do you expect me to say? As a fan of SC I am shocked you had the balls to make a reddit post after the way that broadcast went. Leaked results, poor production ex: lag, music over casters, stream crashes. As if all of that wasn't bad enough this Robin guy to co-cast with JP from his bedroom? I don't even care to elaborate on him. Sorry no pat on the back from me, can't do it. As much of an MLG fan as I am no way can I say good job. If I was a sponsor I would have been pissed. Who is in charge of quality control? I know a bunch of people were fired, I think it's starting to show....
Gretrock I know that all the playhem reddit machine will down vote this but I don't care. Robin is terrible and it shows. Speaks to fast, doesn't have knowledge of the game, and frankly I was embarrassed FOR MLG. Looked like a fan boy in his room Put MLG against the IEM casters and tell me they compare. Playhem has much better casters to choose from than Robin. You don't see IEM or IPL using these guys because they actually care about production unlike MLG. remember Dallas? Downvote away truth hurts.
I can go on and on. Now I also know the motivation for your posts because I know you. I'm guessing MLG isn't going to hire you and Robin probably can't help you get a job with them. It won't help Robin if you blow smoke, nor will it help MLG. They will end up in the same mess that NASL found themselves in if they continue to cheapen their stream.
If MLG is satisfied with the korean coverage of Day1 then God Bless them, I just have higher standards that's all. I would rather pay for Artosis and Tastless than watch last nights cast for free.
MLG has an ability to always bounce back though. Hopefully they do.
dunno if that was a twicth issue or not but yesterday my stream at 720p was still shwoing the whitera match while the lower qualities allready showed the next match o.O
Just re-iterating the EU broadcast time, was really disappointed about that.
Also think there needs to be a more analytical type of caster with either JP or Tumba (or w/e his name was). It felt like it was missing something without that angle for me, so I tuned out pretty quick and ended up watching something else.
Its impossible to have a good time slot for everyone especially on week days. Just give EU a rebroadcast. If possible change the current broadcasting time for the US to a couple hours later b/c the timing for PST. At least timing for NASL and IPL is reasonable for PST but MLG is so early. Also something needs to be done about all the qualifier results being leaked.
Thanks for the feedback. I have been working hard as hell in slowing down my speech, but the sudden shock of hopping into casting a huge stream at last minute seemed to have hit me pretty hard. I am sorry for the fast speech and hope to have the chance to show what I can do when I do slow down.
As for my room...Sorry man, its where I live and I have a roomate, so a quiet place for me to cast is pretty hard to find. Next time I get to cast, ill rent out a whole venue and decorate it to your liking :p
With that, thanks for the feedback from everyone and a HUGE thank you to MLG for allowing me to be on their stream. The kindness from this team is amazing and it was an honor to cast with JP.
Cheers, Robin
It didn't disturbed me (but I have to admit that if I invited friends to show them sc2 it would have :D) But you don't need to rent a room, a different camera angle would do the job imo. Or just a "blanket" behind you.
On February 10 2012 20:55 theofficial wrote: Looked like a fan boy in his room
Yeah, no good casters follow that model.
Can you honestly compare him to Day9 or Artosis. Please. I believe MLG should hold themselves to GSL or IEM level. If eSports wants to be taken seriously then MLG should take responsibilty for quality of content. Not just say hey it's Korean players people with watch no matter what.
I would recommend replacing Robin. I understand he may have gathered a following of sorts but often times, his commentary is unbearable. He'll talk too fast for way too long and it gets to be way too much. I generally feel the need to mute the cast which is highly unfortunate.
Lol why was he warned for that comment? It seems he is just giving his opinion on the casters, not trying to be rude just trying to be honest. Is that not allowed anymore? Like allready said times are bit rough for Europe people, but other then that i really like it! Keep it up!
On February 11 2012 03:11 MrHighlight wrote: I would recommend replacing Robin. I understand he may have gathered a following of sorts but often times, his commentary is unbearable. He'll talk too fast for way too long and it gets to be way too much. I generally feel the need to mute the cast which is highly unfortunate.
I have to agree with Mr. Highlight. With GSL, IEM, IPL all improving it seems like MLG is not focused on improving. I just can't put 2 and 2 together here. Supposedly they had Wolf but he couldn't make it last minute so they come up with this Robin guy? MLG doesn't have another caster on speed dial or what?
MLG improved leaps and bounds after Dallas, sometimes it takes a step backwards to go 2 forwards. Hopefully they get back to quality casting. EU was a great warm up for Korea, now I feel Korea is off to a terrible start.
I will tune in tonight, but only if it's JP with <any competent caster>
For the record Artosis casting from his bedroom bothers me too, but it's Artosis! I can get over it. It wasn't the bedroom as much as the casting.
All I know is the cast tonight is pretty bad. It's the Korean qualifier and they have a kid that appears to be 12 and in his bedroom that said he didn't know the Korean scene during a game. IEM has Bitter, Rotterdam, Rob Simpson MLG has a little kid that obviously doesn't know the match ups or players. He speaks waay to fast also. Here is a fact, He never said code S or code A once during the cast. MLG you really need to step it up.
I may sound critical, but being nice cause you are MLG won't help you improve. I would love to meet the genius that said, yeah lets put this guy on.
(for anyone who had seen the reddit thread, I posted something similar, I just feel strongly enough to add this in both places)
Oh my goodness, IEM has Pro Casters. Good, but where did all the Pro casters come from? Did they begin that way? Pretty sure not. If no one EVER gave them a chance in any spotlight, they would not BE where they are now. I thank MLG for their community caster group because THATS how you grow something. You give people chances and opportunities from which to learn and grow so that they can further contribute.
As for the '12-yr-old in his room' comment you made - I seem to recall a very popular caster who does a show FROM his room where you can see just about everything in the background. It was hard to tell that was a bedroom where Robin was - just looked like a white wall with a door to me, but maybe I'm missing something.
From what I understand, (from his twitter post I saw) Robin was asked to cast at the last minute. NOT the last week, day, or even hour, but the very last MINUTE because Wolf was unable. And as far as Playhem's "better" casters - It's very possible they were not available either, though I do wonder by whose judgement makes anyone "better" than the next?
I watch Playhem, and I've heard Robin cast quite a few times, and do other broadcasts with them. I've heard him tell some people in the chat that he has a full time job as well, and casts playhem something like 20-25 hours a week. There are not a lot of code A or code S players who join Playhem tournaments on a daily basis - you know - with playing in gsl and all. OF COURSE Robin's not going to have a vast knowledge of the Korean scene if he's spending every awake hour either casting EU and NA players OR working to make a living. The fact that he came on to cast at the last minute was great in itself, because he may well have broken OTHER plans for the evening to do so - and that just further grounds his dedication to the community.
Obviously, your opinions are yours, IFgogogosu, and I'm not trying to sell you on anything, but I hope someone else who might read this will agree, and see that what MLG is doing is great for the community as a whole, because they are putting their neck on the line and giving people chances to shine/improve/grow esports.
Thanks MLG.
1.) you are part of the playhem machine as stated on Reddit here: http://www.reddit.com/user/PtPrkr 2.) This Robin guy is a league of legends player not an SC2 player: http://i.imgur.com/SW8pl.jpg 3.) You have your own motive because you think you have an "in" with MLG 4.) These people said it best imho b/c it is the truth WITHOUT MOTIVE other than improvement of stream:
TerranTerror1 ok 1 are you actually comparing this Robin guy to Day9? Really? I don't care how you try and package it. This is lipstick on a pig. That cast was bad no matter how you cut it. It was a BAD LOOK for MLG. If they want to give community people a chance then do it with a small event geared toward people that want to watch that. NOT A KOREAN QUALIFIER FOR MLG! To me it seems like MLG is moving backwards. How do they not have the connections to get some other caster? Who's judgement makes anyone "better" how about the majority of fans? Case in point... since you compared this guy to Day 9 I will do my own comparison. A poll goes up who would you rather have cast this Korean qualifier Artosis or Gretorp. Is Artosis going to win hands down? Yes because he is a better caster. Nothing against Gretorp just the way it is. Not everyone is cut out to cast for MLG, however you wouldn't know it from day 1 of the Korean Qualifier. I want to point out I don't think any of this is Robins fault per say. What was he going to say no MLG I don't want to do this. No it's MLG's fault for taking someone totally unprepared and thrusting them into a situation they aren't ready for. We saw it at NASL and IPL too. As an avid GSL watcher I can tell you that cast was horrible and it's MLG's fault not Robins. Someone screwed up bad.
SuperPandas I understand the motive to bring on new casters and feature new people, but I think you can probably screen them a bit better. Robin doesn't belong on an MLG stream IMHO - MLG is known for top notch production value, casting and games. No offense to Robin seriously but dude you got a lot of good feedback from the beta streams and it just sounds like you tossed it all out the fucking window. If a caster doesn't listen to his listeners and improve, I don't see a place for them in the spotlight. Just my opinion.
Stimme Seriously MLG what do you expect me to say? As a fan of SC I am shocked you had the balls to make a reddit post after the way that broadcast went. Leaked results, poor production ex: lag, music over casters, stream crashes. As if all of that wasn't bad enough this Robin guy to co-cast with JP from his bedroom? I don't even care to elaborate on him. Sorry no pat on the back from me, can't do it. As much of an MLG fan as I am no way can I say good job. If I was a sponsor I would have been pissed. Who is in charge of quality control? I know a bunch of people were fired, I think it's starting to show....
Gretrock I know that all the playhem reddit machine will down vote this but I don't care. Robin is terrible and it shows. Speaks to fast, doesn't have knowledge of the game, and frankly I was embarrassed FOR MLG. Looked like a fan boy in his room Put MLG against the IEM casters and tell me they compare. Playhem has much better casters to choose from than Robin. You don't see IEM or IPL using these guys because they actually care about production unlike MLG. remember Dallas? Downvote away truth hurts.
I can go on and on. Now I also know the motivation for your posts because I know you. I'm guessing MLG isn't going to hire you and Robin probably can't help you get a job with them. It won't help Robin if you blow smoke, nor will it help MLG. They will end up in the same mess that NASL found themselves in if they continue to cheapen their stream.
If MLG is satisfied with the korean coverage of Day1 then God Bless them, I just have higher standards that's all. I would rather pay for Artosis and Tastless than watch last nights cast for free.
MLG has an ability to always bounce back though. Hopefully they do.
Thanks for quoting some reddit posts, but I'm sorry, theofficial - I think you may have made a huge assumption. I have nothing to do with MLG, besides enjoying their content. I don't work for them, have motives for them, nor would I be able to cast for them (or anything similar). In my very last 2-word sentence, I was THANKING THEM.
And I will again. Thank you MLG. Thank you for providing as much content as possible.
Tonight sounds way better than yesterday. MLG does the bounce back as predicted. It is so much easier to listen to and watch for sure. JP sounds so much better than yesterday because he is with a casting pro. 1 bad night out of what 5 so far isn't bad. Setting pitch fork down BUT KEEPING IT CLOSE just in case.
On February 11 2012 03:11 MrHighlight wrote: I would recommend replacing Robin. I understand he may have gathered a following of sorts but often times, his commentary is unbearable. He'll talk too fast for way too long and it gets to be way too much. I generally feel the need to mute the cast which is highly unfortunate.
They took your advice Mr.Highlight much much better. Even JP sounds like he is relieved. They are flowing much better. So happy they listned to the fans. I feel like yesterday is in the past, so on with the great games! I was so excited for Violet and look how good he is playing now. I'm pullling for OZ in this so please cast all of his stuff!!!
Just wanted to say you guys are doing a kick ass job with everything. JP your casting is really well done, seems very comfortable with any caster. The production is spot on. Overall really awesome job.
@theOfficial. Thank you for your thorough and brutally honest feedback. As executive producer on this show and the upcoming Winter Arena broadcast, I will continue to look to the community for constructive criticism.
The issues we ran into last night were my fault and the result of a miscommunication between a caster in a different timezone and I. I want to thank Robin for filling in last minute and JP for adjusting to the last second changes and putting on a great show.
I also want to thank Stephen Basile for helping us fix the technical issues between broadcasts. If you are enjoying a smoother stream tonight, feel free to send him a thank you message on twitter: @MLGStephen.
What do you guys think of the show tonight? Do you like the Khaldor + JP combo?
Wolf joins us tomorrow for our second set of qualifying matches. Keep the feedback coming and we'll continue to improve.
Cheers to a weekend full of awesome Korean matches, -Chris Puckett
Really disappointing to read through this thread and to see this generally very negative attitude about the casting in particular especially when the criticism is something so small as the caster's location. We do not watch events like the MLG Winter Qualifier because of the caster's environment, we watch for good games, enjoyable production, and strong casting in all of its forms may that be game knowledge, excitement level, voice, inflection, speed, and all of the other countless factors that go into it. All of that I can understand constructively criticizing, but when I see an oddly high amount of responses making harsh remarks about the caster's location, it gives me pause.
Yes, I understand that it's important that MLG put on a clean and professional production to help show the legitimacy of our niche, but when that becomes the focal point of a series of derogatory remarks then it starts to become a problem in my eyes. Contrary to what seems to be the popular belief, Day[9], Tasteless, and Artosis cannot cast every single event. Day[9] is a busy man and obviously he can't commit time to the abundance of tournaments that we're seeing in the pro scene and he's also decided to focus primarily on his own projects. The same issue applies for Artosis and Tasteless. They are mainly tied to the GSL and won't be casting many other tournaments often.
With that said, it really bothers me when MLG asks for feedback and the general response is "these casters are so bad, why don't you have better ones." Constructive criticism will always have its merit, but that's hardly constructive or even useful. If we refuse to even consider these new up-and-coming casters then it's hard to say that we'll have a good future ahead of us. If we remain stagnant and stick with the mentality that "these are the only casters worth a damn" then there's no opportunity for the scene to grow and improve, only to shrink. Every caster has to start somewhere. Day9, Tasteless, and Artosis didn't hone their skills over night nor did they reach their level of fandom in the first week, month, year, or even several years. These things take time and when we turn a blind eye to any kind of new talent then we'll never see another caster rise up like they did. It just won't happen.
No, I'm not saying that we should freely accept every new caster with open arms and no reservation. I'm not saying that we shouldn't point out weaknesses in an individual's casting ability, especially if they are abundant. I simply want to encourage everyone here to be a bit more open-minded and objective. Don't put a caster down because you don't know him or because he's not very close to the level of the best in the business. Give him advice, tell him what he's doing wrong, and don't point out flaws simply out of spite or apathy. If we as a community take those steps, I honestly feel like we'll have an abundance of amazing casters to fill the increasing amount of positions that are continually popping up in our growing scene. Simply put, we need to give these people a chance for them to truly shine.
On February 11 2012 11:24 DarkenedLite wrote: Really disappointing to read through this thread and to see this generally very negative attitude about the casting in particular especially when the criticism is something so small as the caster's location. We do not watch events like the MLG Winter Qualifier because of the caster's environment, we watch for good games, enjoyable production, and strong casting in all of its forms may that be game knowledge, excitement level, voice, inflection, speed, and all of the other countless factors that go into it. All of that I can understand constructively criticizing, but when I see an oddly high amount of responses making harsh remarks about the caster's location, it gives me pause.
Yes, I understand that it's important that MLG put on a clean and professional production to help show the legitimacy of our niche, but when that becomes the focal point of a series of derogatory remarks then it starts to become a problem in my eyes. Contrary to what seems to be the popular belief, Day[9], Tasteless, and Artosis cannot cast every single event. Day[9] is a busy man and obviously he can't commit time to the abundance of tournaments that we're seeing in the pro scene and he's also decided to focus primarily on his own projects. The same issue applies for Artosis and Tasteless. They are mainly tied to the GSL and won't be casting many other tournaments often.
With that said, it really bothers me when MLG asks for feedback and the general response is "these casters are so bad, why don't you have better ones." Constructive criticism will always have its merit, but that's hardly constructive or even useful. If we refuse to even consider these new up-and-coming casters then it's hard to say that we'll have a good future ahead of us. If we remain stagnant and stick with the mentality that "these are the only casters worth a damn" then there's no opportunity for the scene to grow and improve, only to shrink. Every caster has to start somewhere. Day9, Tasteless, and Artosis didn't hone their skills over night nor did they reach their level of fandom in the first week, month, year, or even several years. These things take time and when we turn a blind eye to any kind of new talent then we'll never see another caster rise up like they did. It just won't happen.
No, I'm not saying that we should freely accept every new caster with open arms and no reservation. I'm not saying that we shouldn't point out weaknesses in an individual's casting ability, especially if they are abundant. I simply want to encourage everyone here to be a bit more open-minded and objective. Don't put a caster down because you don't know him or because he's not very close to the level of the best in the business. Give him advice, tell him what he's doing wrong, and don't point out flaws simply out of spite or apathy. If we as a community take those steps, I honestly feel like we'll have an abundance of amazing casters to fill the increasing amount of positions that are continually popping up in our growing scene. Simply put, we need to give these people a chance for them to truly shine.
I could not have said it better. This is EXACTLY what I came here to post, and this person got to it first. Thank you Thank you Thank you. Now, if only we could wave a magic wand an make everyone as open-minded. ~Be Happy~
I watched a few VODs and I must say, overall they were nice, and the only points of criticism are somewhat nit-picky, though should REALLY be considered in the long run.
First off, its impossible for the entire world to be watching live at a comfortable time; this we know, or atleast the community should respect this fact. However, if many are then forced to watch VODs, you can make them more exciting by figuring out a way to hide the total time of the clips from the VODs. I was watching MMA vs. Lucky yesterday, and just didn't feel shocked or excited at the clusterfuck of cheese, because when I turned on the VOD, I could see that it's run time was only 8 minutes. I know this is more so a responsibility of whoever created the video player, but you could try to get into contact with them, and see if they can make an exclusive VOD player that hides the total time, and even the progression bar (optional to the viewer I'd suggest), to maximize the excitement that you can get from these clips. I know many will argue against it, but Live streams don't give total time either, so convenience doesn't HAVE to be a factor.
Second, some of the VOD series were off in color. I believe it was Ghanzi vs Fin, in which the red color was terribly dark, and the green hue seemed dominant. This is nit-picky, but if there's an easy fix for future VODs, definitely look into it.
Other than that, it's all good. I'm getting a bit pissed off that people are criticizing casters, namely Robin. It was the community that helped make Day[9] and all the other bigger names successful. I just don't feel this reflects on the same kind of community that helped it's own rather than trying to kick them away for not being perfect right away. It's a shame.
On February 11 2012 11:24 DarkenedLite wrote: Really disappointing to read through this thread and to see this generally very negative attitude about the casting in particular especially when the criticism is something so small as the caster's location. We do not watch events like the MLG Winter Qualifier because of the caster's environment, we watch for good games, enjoyable production, and strong casting in all of its forms may that be game knowledge, excitement level, voice, inflection, speed, and all of the other countless factors that go into it. All of that I can understand constructively criticizing, but when I see an oddly high amount of responses making harsh remarks about the caster's location, it gives me pause.
Yes, I understand that it's important that MLG put on a clean and professional production to help show the legitimacy of our niche, but when that becomes the focal point of a series of derogatory remarks then it starts to become a problem in my eyes. Contrary to what seems to be the popular belief, Day[9], Tasteless, and Artosis cannot cast every single event. Day[9] is a busy man and obviously he can't commit time to the abundance of tournaments that we're seeing in the pro scene and he's also decided to focus primarily on his own projects. The same issue applies for Artosis and Tasteless. They are mainly tied to the GSL and won't be casting many other tournaments often.
With that said, it really bothers me when MLG asks for feedback and the general response is "these casters are so bad, why don't you have better ones." Constructive criticism will always have its merit, but that's hardly constructive or even useful. If we refuse to even consider these new up-and-coming casters then it's hard to say that we'll have a good future ahead of us. If we remain stagnant and stick with the mentality that "these are the only casters worth a damn" then there's no opportunity for the scene to grow and improve, only to shrink. Every caster has to start somewhere. Day9, Tasteless, and Artosis didn't hone their skills over night nor did they reach their level of fandom in the first week, month, year, or even several years. These things take time and when we turn a blind eye to any kind of new talent then we'll never see another caster rise up like they did. It just won't happen.
No, I'm not saying that we should freely accept every new caster with open arms and no reservation. I'm not saying that we shouldn't point out weaknesses in an individual's casting ability, especially if they are abundant. I simply want to encourage everyone here to be a bit more open-minded and objective. Don't put a caster down because you don't know him or because he's not very close to the level of the best in the business. Give him advice, tell him what he's doing wrong, and don't point out flaws simply out of spite or apathy. If we as a community take those steps, I honestly feel like we'll have an abundance of amazing casters to fill the increasing amount of positions that are continually popping up in our growing scene. Simply put, we need to give these people a chance for them to truly shine.
I could not have said it better. This is EXACTLY what I came here to post, and this person got to it first. Thank you Thank you Thank you. Now, if only we could wave a magic wand an make everyone as open-minded. ~Be Happy~
what? "what can we do better?" "oh theres some things but since it was 80% good we wont bother telling you"
how helpful. people are posting criticisms, they arent being negative, thats not the same thing
On February 11 2012 11:24 DarkenedLite wrote: Really disappointing to read through this thread and to see this generally very negative attitude about the casting in particular especially when the criticism is something so small as the caster's location. We do not watch events like the MLG Winter Qualifier because of the caster's environment, we watch for good games, enjoyable production, and strong casting in all of its forms may that be game knowledge, excitement level, voice, inflection, speed, and all of the other countless factors that go into it. All of that I can understand constructively criticizing, but when I see an oddly high amount of responses making harsh remarks about the caster's location, it gives me pause.
Yes, I understand that it's important that MLG put on a clean and professional production to help show the legitimacy of our niche, but when that becomes the focal point of a series of derogatory remarks then it starts to become a problem in my eyes. Contrary to what seems to be the popular belief, Day[9], Tasteless, and Artosis cannot cast every single event. Day[9] is a busy man and obviously he can't commit time to the abundance of tournaments that we're seeing in the pro scene and he's also decided to focus primarily on his own projects. The same issue applies for Artosis and Tasteless. They are mainly tied to the GSL and won't be casting many other tournaments often.
With that said, it really bothers me when MLG asks for feedback and the general response is "these casters are so bad, why don't you have better ones." Constructive criticism will always have its merit, but that's hardly constructive or even useful. If we refuse to even consider these new up-and-coming casters then it's hard to say that we'll have a good future ahead of us. If we remain stagnant and stick with the mentality that "these are the only casters worth a damn" then there's no opportunity for the scene to grow and improve, only to shrink. Every caster has to start somewhere. Day9, Tasteless, and Artosis didn't hone their skills over night nor did they reach their level of fandom in the first week, month, year, or even several years. These things take time and when we turn a blind eye to any kind of new talent then we'll never see another caster rise up like they did. It just won't happen.
No, I'm not saying that we should freely accept every new caster with open arms and no reservation. I'm not saying that we shouldn't point out weaknesses in an individual's casting ability, especially if they are abundant. I simply want to encourage everyone here to be a bit more open-minded and objective. Don't put a caster down because you don't know him or because he's not very close to the level of the best in the business. Give him advice, tell him what he's doing wrong, and don't point out flaws simply out of spite or apathy. If we as a community take those steps, I honestly feel like we'll have an abundance of amazing casters to fill the increasing amount of positions that are continually popping up in our growing scene. Simply put, we need to give these people a chance for them to truly shine.
I could not have said it better. This is EXACTLY what I came here to post, and this person got to it first. Thank you Thank you Thank you. Now, if only we could wave a magic wand an make everyone as open-minded. ~Be Happy~
what? "what can we do better?" "oh theres some things but since it was 80% good we wont bother telling you"
how helpful. people are posting criticisms, they arent being negative, thats not the same thing
Criticisms without insight into how to improve are completely worthless. Might as well call it a vent thread for casting.
I think Khaldor is second to Artosis based on his knowledge of the KR scene he casts GSL and usually right after KSL and he works very well with anyone and he also sounds very enthusiastic
On February 11 2012 11:24 DarkenedLite wrote: Really disappointing to read through this thread and to see this generally very negative attitude about the casting in particular especially when the criticism is something so small as the caster's location. We do not watch events like the MLG Winter Qualifier because of the caster's environment, we watch for good games, enjoyable production, and strong casting in all of its forms may that be game knowledge, excitement level, voice, inflection, speed, and all of the other countless factors that go into it. All of that I can understand constructively criticizing, but when I see an oddly high amount of responses making harsh remarks about the caster's location, it gives me pause.
Yes, I understand that it's important that MLG put on a clean and professional production to help show the legitimacy of our niche, but when that becomes the focal point of a series of derogatory remarks then it starts to become a problem in my eyes. Contrary to what seems to be the popular belief, Day[9], Tasteless, and Artosis cannot cast every single event. Day[9] is a busy man and obviously he can't commit time to the abundance of tournaments that we're seeing in the pro scene and he's also decided to focus primarily on his own projects. The same issue applies for Artosis and Tasteless. They are mainly tied to the GSL and won't be casting many other tournaments often.
With that said, it really bothers me when MLG asks for feedback and the general response is "these casters are so bad, why don't you have better ones." Constructive criticism will always have its merit, but that's hardly constructive or even useful. If we refuse to even consider these new up-and-coming casters then it's hard to say that we'll have a good future ahead of us. If we remain stagnant and stick with the mentality that "these are the only casters worth a damn" then there's no opportunity for the scene to grow and improve, only to shrink. Every caster has to start somewhere. Day9, Tasteless, and Artosis didn't hone their skills over night nor did they reach their level of fandom in the first week, month, year, or even several years. These things take time and when we turn a blind eye to any kind of new talent then we'll never see another caster rise up like they did. It just won't happen.
No, I'm not saying that we should freely accept every new caster with open arms and no reservation. I'm not saying that we shouldn't point out weaknesses in an individual's casting ability, especially if they are abundant. I simply want to encourage everyone here to be a bit more open-minded and objective. Don't put a caster down because you don't know him or because he's not very close to the level of the best in the business. Give him advice, tell him what he's doing wrong, and don't point out flaws simply out of spite or apathy. If we as a community take those steps, I honestly feel like we'll have an abundance of amazing casters to fill the increasing amount of positions that are continually popping up in our growing scene. Simply put, we need to give these people a chance for them to truly shine.
I could not have said it better. This is EXACTLY what I came here to post, and this person got to it first. Thank you Thank you Thank you. Now, if only we could wave a magic wand an make everyone as open-minded. ~Be Happy~
what? "what can we do better?" "oh theres some things but since it was 80% good we wont bother telling you"
how helpful. people are posting criticisms, they arent being negative, thats not the same thing
The issue is that the criticisms don't seem to be useful or conducive to improvement. The overarching attitude of the responses in this thread seems to be "this isn't what we're used to, we only want the best." The problem with that is with the abundance of tournaments appearing in the SC2 eSports scene, you can't always provide the best. For that reason, it would be far more helpful to give insightful criticism with actual ideas for improvement when considering the lesser known or less popular casters. That exists in this thread, but it's largely the minority.
New and unfamiliar casters shouldn't be criticized for the fact that they're new and unfamiliar. If there's an issue with their casting, point it out and suggest areas where they could work to improve instead of a simple "These casters are just bad, why don't they have someone established in the scene for this event."
I barely know this exists, the hour its on is just not possible to watch for me. Good that your changing that atleast. But you still need to hype this up more and advertize it.
On February 11 2012 11:24 DarkenedLite wrote: Really disappointing to read through this thread and to see this generally very negative attitude about the casting in particular especially when the criticism is something so small as the caster's location. We do not watch events like the MLG Winter Qualifier because of the caster's environment, we watch for good games, enjoyable production, and strong casting in all of its forms may that be game knowledge, excitement level, voice, inflection, speed, and all of the other countless factors that go into it. All of that I can understand constructively criticizing, but when I see an oddly high amount of responses making harsh remarks about the caster's location, it gives me pause.
Yes, I understand that it's important that MLG put on a clean and professional production to help show the legitimacy of our niche, but when that becomes the focal point of a series of derogatory remarks then it starts to become a problem in my eyes. Contrary to what seems to be the popular belief, Day[9], Tasteless, and Artosis cannot cast every single event. Day[9] is a busy man and obviously he can't commit time to the abundance of tournaments that we're seeing in the pro scene and he's also decided to focus primarily on his own projects. The same issue applies for Artosis and Tasteless. They are mainly tied to the GSL and won't be casting many other tournaments often.
With that said, it really bothers me when MLG asks for feedback and the general response is "these casters are so bad, why don't you have better ones." Constructive criticism will always have its merit, but that's hardly constructive or even useful. If we refuse to even consider these new up-and-coming casters then it's hard to say that we'll have a good future ahead of us. If we remain stagnant and stick with the mentality that "these are the only casters worth a damn" then there's no opportunity for the scene to grow and improve, only to shrink. Every caster has to start somewhere. Day9, Tasteless, and Artosis didn't hone their skills over night nor did they reach their level of fandom in the first week, month, year, or even several years. These things take time and when we turn a blind eye to any kind of new talent then we'll never see another caster rise up like they did. It just won't happen.
No, I'm not saying that we should freely accept every new caster with open arms and no reservation. I'm not saying that we shouldn't point out weaknesses in an individual's casting ability, especially if they are abundant. I simply want to encourage everyone here to be a bit more open-minded and objective. Don't put a caster down because you don't know him or because he's not very close to the level of the best in the business. Give him advice, tell him what he's doing wrong, and don't point out flaws simply out of spite or apathy. If we as a community take those steps, I honestly feel like we'll have an abundance of amazing casters to fill the increasing amount of positions that are continually popping up in our growing scene. Simply put, we need to give these people a chance for them to truly shine.
I could not have said it better. This is EXACTLY what I came here to post, and this person got to it first. Thank you Thank you Thank you. Now, if only we could wave a magic wand an make everyone as open-minded. ~Be Happy~
what? "what can we do better?" "oh theres some things but since it was 80% good we wont bother telling you"
how helpful. people are posting criticisms, they arent being negative, thats not the same thing
The issue is that the criticisms don't seem to be useful or conducive to improvement. The overarching attitude of the responses in this thread seems to be "this isn't what we're used to, we only want the best." The issue with that is that with abundance of tournaments, you can't always provide the best. For that reason, it would be far more helpful to give insightful criticism with actual ideas for improvement. That exists in this thread, but it's largely the minority.
New and unfamiliar casters shouldn't be criticized for the fact that they're new and unfamiliar. If there's an issue with their casting, point it out and suggest areas where they could work to improve instead of a simple "These casters are just bad, why don't they have someone established in the scene for this event."
The only problem with that is, there are some casters that are generally a square trying to fit in a round hole. While I understand that overall people want to give as much specific help and advice as possible, frankly, sometimes the most specific and best advice is going to be: Get this person the hell away from a casting booth. I'm not saying that about anyone in particular, but rather, trying to point out that this "Give advice everyone can be better!" attitude is unrealistic.
On February 11 2012 11:24 DarkenedLite wrote: Really disappointing to read through this thread and to see this generally very negative attitude about the casting in particular especially when the criticism is something so small as the caster's location. We do not watch events like the MLG Winter Qualifier because of the caster's environment, we watch for good games, enjoyable production, and strong casting in all of its forms may that be game knowledge, excitement level, voice, inflection, speed, and all of the other countless factors that go into it. All of that I can understand constructively criticizing, but when I see an oddly high amount of responses making harsh remarks about the caster's location, it gives me pause.
Yes, I understand that it's important that MLG put on a clean and professional production to help show the legitimacy of our niche, but when that becomes the focal point of a series of derogatory remarks then it starts to become a problem in my eyes. Contrary to what seems to be the popular belief, Day[9], Tasteless, and Artosis cannot cast every single event. Day[9] is a busy man and obviously he can't commit time to the abundance of tournaments that we're seeing in the pro scene and he's also decided to focus primarily on his own projects. The same issue applies for Artosis and Tasteless. They are mainly tied to the GSL and won't be casting many other tournaments often.
With that said, it really bothers me when MLG asks for feedback and the general response is "these casters are so bad, why don't you have better ones." Constructive criticism will always have its merit, but that's hardly constructive or even useful. If we refuse to even consider these new up-and-coming casters then it's hard to say that we'll have a good future ahead of us. If we remain stagnant and stick with the mentality that "these are the only casters worth a damn" then there's no opportunity for the scene to grow and improve, only to shrink. Every caster has to start somewhere. Day9, Tasteless, and Artosis didn't hone their skills over night nor did they reach their level of fandom in the first week, month, year, or even several years. These things take time and when we turn a blind eye to any kind of new talent then we'll never see another caster rise up like they did. It just won't happen.
No, I'm not saying that we should freely accept every new caster with open arms and no reservation. I'm not saying that we shouldn't point out weaknesses in an individual's casting ability, especially if they are abundant. I simply want to encourage everyone here to be a bit more open-minded and objective. Don't put a caster down because you don't know him or because he's not very close to the level of the best in the business. Give him advice, tell him what he's doing wrong, and don't point out flaws simply out of spite or apathy. If we as a community take those steps, I honestly feel like we'll have an abundance of amazing casters to fill the increasing amount of positions that are continually popping up in our growing scene. Simply put, we need to give these people a chance for them to truly shine.
I could not have said it better. This is EXACTLY what I came here to post, and this person got to it first. Thank you Thank you Thank you. Now, if only we could wave a magic wand an make everyone as open-minded. ~Be Happy~
what? "what can we do better?" "oh theres some things but since it was 80% good we wont bother telling you"
how helpful. people are posting criticisms, they arent being negative, thats not the same thing
The issue is that the criticisms don't seem to be useful or conducive to improvement. The overarching attitude of the responses in this thread seems to be "this isn't what we're used to, we only want the best." The issue with that is that with abundance of tournaments, you can't always provide the best. For that reason, it would be far more helpful to give insightful criticism with actual ideas for improvement. That exists in this thread, but it's largely the minority.
New and unfamiliar casters shouldn't be criticized for the fact that they're new and unfamiliar. If there's an issue with their casting, point it out and suggest areas where they could work to improve instead of a simple "These casters are just bad, why don't they have someone established in the scene for this event."
The only problem with that is, there are some casters that are generally a square trying to fit in a round hole. While I understand that overall people want to give as much specific help and advice as possible, frankly, sometimes the most specific and best advice is going to be: Get this person the hell away from a casting booth. I'm not saying that about anyone in particular, but rather, trying to point out that this "Give advice everyone can be better!" attitude is unrealistic.
Oh I completely agree on that point, but when one of the primary criticisms of a caster is his location when he comes up on screen then I don't really think that truth applies. Especially if it's one of his first bigger casting situations which has a whole host of other challenges. Casters shouldn't be dismissed out of hand because of one specific performance or due to weaknesses that they haven't been given the chance to iron out yet.
Obviously if they continually show that they can't step up to the plate and act as an entertaining and strong addition to the overall production then -that- is the time to step back and say "maybe this just isn't where they belong".
In the end though, it's up to the organizers of that specific production and usually they don't have the luxury of an appropriately long evaluation period. However, it can only help if the viewers don't start their criticism with jaded motivations, apathy, or outright dislike without justifiable reasons that they clearly identify.
I was only able to watch the last broadcast (JP + Khaldor) so it might not be that representative but I have to say that I enjoyed it quite a lot. I'd definitely tune in again provided I'm still awake at the time of the broadcast.
On February 11 2012 11:24 DarkenedLite wrote: Really disappointing to read through this thread and to see this generally very negative attitude about the casting in particular especially when the criticism is something so small as the caster's location. We do not watch events like the MLG Winter Qualifier because of the caster's environment, we watch for good games, enjoyable production, and strong casting in all of its forms may that be game knowledge, excitement level, voice, inflection, speed, and all of the other countless factors that go into it. All of that I can understand constructively criticizing, but when I see an oddly high amount of responses making harsh remarks about the caster's location, it gives me pause.
Yes, I understand that it's important that MLG put on a clean and professional production to help show the legitimacy of our niche, but when that becomes the focal point of a series of derogatory remarks then it starts to become a problem in my eyes. Contrary to what seems to be the popular belief, Day[9], Tasteless, and Artosis cannot cast every single event. Day[9] is a busy man and obviously he can't commit time to the abundance of tournaments that we're seeing in the pro scene and he's also decided to focus primarily on his own projects. The same issue applies for Artosis and Tasteless. They are mainly tied to the GSL and won't be casting many other tournaments often.
With that said, it really bothers me when MLG asks for feedback and the general response is "these casters are so bad, why don't you have better ones." Constructive criticism will always have its merit, but that's hardly constructive or even useful. If we refuse to even consider these new up-and-coming casters then it's hard to say that we'll have a good future ahead of us. If we remain stagnant and stick with the mentality that "these are the only casters worth a damn" then there's no opportunity for the scene to grow and improve, only to shrink. Every caster has to start somewhere. Day9, Tasteless, and Artosis didn't hone their skills over night nor did they reach their level of fandom in the first week, month, year, or even several years. These things take time and when we turn a blind eye to any kind of new talent then we'll never see another caster rise up like they did. It just won't happen.
No, I'm not saying that we should freely accept every new caster with open arms and no reservation. I'm not saying that we shouldn't point out weaknesses in an individual's casting ability, especially if they are abundant. I simply want to encourage everyone here to be a bit more open-minded and objective. Don't put a caster down because you don't know him or because he's not very close to the level of the best in the business. Give him advice, tell him what he's doing wrong, and don't point out flaws simply out of spite or apathy. If we as a community take those steps, I honestly feel like we'll have an abundance of amazing casters to fill the increasing amount of positions that are continually popping up in our growing scene. Simply put, we need to give these people a chance for them to truly shine.
I could not have said it better. This is EXACTLY what I came here to post, and this person got to it first. Thank you Thank you Thank you. Now, if only we could wave a magic wand an make everyone as open-minded. ~Be Happy~
what? "what can we do better?" "oh theres some things but since it was 80% good we wont bother telling you"
how helpful. people are posting criticisms, they arent being negative, thats not the same thing
Criticisms without insight into how to improve are completely worthless. Might as well call it a vent thread for casting.
if i was able to tell them exactly how to run a perfect broadcast i would expect a pay cheque to do so. they are asking for people to do half the work for them for free. they dont expect you to include a 12 page document on costings and feasibility.
On February 11 2012 11:24 DarkenedLite wrote:Don't put a caster down because you don't know him or because he's not very close to the level of the best in the business. Give him advice, tell him what he's doing wrong, and don't point out flaws simply out of spite or apathy. If we as a community take those steps, I honestly feel like we'll have an abundance of amazing casters to fill the increasing amount of positions that are continually popping up in our growing scene. Simply put, we need to give these people a chance for them to truly shine.
The problem with casters who are "...not very close to the level of the best in the business." is that the best casters in the SC2 business still all suck from a pure technical point of view. With (to my knowledge) one exception, which is TotalBiscuit, who I highly suspect has had some kind of professional speech training, EVERYONE in the casting business is basically a "learning by doing" amateur. Seriously, has anyone ever tried counting the amount of "Uhs" a "best in the business" guy like Tasteless drops during a single cast?
Now if you have a guy who is "...not very close to the level of the best in the business." you are entering "unbearable" territory.
Add to that the fact that a company that named itself similar, and uses a similar logo to one of the biggest sports franchises in the world, has a guy casting from his bedroom, and it's just wow wtf unacceptable.
CHOSE to sound and look like
No one forced them to do that, but in times where it is openly discussed whether or not organizations like MLG should charge their viewers PPV style, I think it's only fair to hold them accountable to the standards they set for themselves with that name and logo choice.
I mean, you (MLG) might all be just a bunch of college kids, and that's fine by me. Just please don't ever pretend you're somethíng better, if you even fail to get your casters two of these (Image below) with your logo on it so they can put these up in their college dorm room bedrooms when they are casting Major League Gaming. That he in fact SHOULD be in an MLG studio goes without saying, but if you fail to do even that, I'll laugh at each and everyone who mentions SC2 and PPV in the same sentence.
Why all the dubstep? It's an incredibly grating genre. I mean it's better than that awful cheesy ass guitar riff that repeated itself over and over and over and over but that's like saying Franco was better than Hitler.
I have watched every night thus far. Here is my report card:
EU day 1 JP/Apollo - (A+) Great games and solid casting. EU day 2 JP/Apollo - (A-) " " EU day 3 JP/Tumbas - (B-) - Production stanpoint was ok, tumbas dropped, and he doesn't know EU like Apollo! EU day 4 JP/Tumbas - (B+) - Great games, solid casting, and one name above all VIOLET! LAG though!
KR day1 JP/Robin - (F) - Audio problems, replay issues, and no offense to Robin, just didn't enjoy the cast. Tuned out. KR day2 JP/Khaldor - (B) - A step up from day 1 for sure! Everything was on point could tell you guys listend to fans. KR day3 JP/Wolf - (A-) - Some sound issues and wolf dropped a few times. KR day4 JP/Wolf - (A+) - Barring any major screw ups tonight looks great.
I'd really like it if MLG would integreate the easier to view supply value overlay of Blizzard with their own overlay of actual player name and series standing.
On February 25 2012 09:48 Synapze wrote: Tried to privately restream so I could watch on my 60" TV with 2 friends, JTV bans me, takes away my PPV and doesn't even contact me. Great service.
you didn't think you would get in trouble for that?
I keep getting bumped off of streams and occasionally have to re-login to all 5 streams. Even though I'm logged in to JTV, it doesn't recognize it for whatever reason so refreshing when that happens doesn't fix it. Only going through the login screen for each window does. :|
Not pleased so far.
Game and caster wise it's been fine, but I think this interface is worse than the Quadview MLG has used in the past.
On February 25 2012 09:52 Jibba wrote: I keep getting bumped off of streams and occasionally have to re-login to all 5 streams. Even though I'm logged in to JTV, it doesn't recognize it for whatever reason so refreshing when that happens doesn't fix it. Only going through the login screen for each window does. :|
Not pleased so far.
Game and caster wise it's been fine, but I think this interface is worse than the Quadview MLG has used in the past.
Im getting the same problems, its really pissing me off, i understand things happen but they gotta work these bugs out before hand that kinda stuff is just unacceptable.
Hey guys - we're seeing a very small portion of our users being affected by this issue. We are actively working to address the problem and I'll let you know when a fix is in place. If you are seeing this issue, please post here.
Love the interchange between catz and the casters! Adds a great dimension to the broadcast and mixes things up very well. Being able to hear 4 or 5 opinions on the game and matchup is great! Very good job so far! Worth my 20 dollars!
Very very very slick and amazing player. fast and furious and the only thing that could be improved is I just get this feeling like the frame rate is down a bit from where I think live content is. No idea where catz and rob simpson came from but I think they'd make a good casting pair. Their role as the overview of the last game I think should be improved to a series of points that they can debate between themselves and tastosis but its still a very great move and catz is fitting his role very well. I do enjoy what the main casters are wearing and even catz's blazer over his team shirt is very good respecting his team and looking professional and stylish. The nos corner sounds like a good way to put casters to give them a rest.
I get ads when I switch to the dr pepper stream. is there anyway I could get that for free? Also could you put the interview with demu in the vods after his match? I didn't catch that and I think that would be great to watch.
can you fix the lighting on the players (too dark in webcams) and also give webcams for all the players? i think the casting so far is great, and understand that it's night, but these things would help a lot!
Doesn't MLG not have a feedback section on their own site?
Every little thing gets a thread by now. Feedback, someone covering this and that, scheduling flights of players etc. Please don't get me wrong, I do not disapprove because it is contributing to the community but this crazy flood of MLG posts over the past week is overwhelming. Is this because it wasn't put on the calender?
It is very effective though. There was/is no way to not hear about nearly every single aspect of MLG Winter Arena. It just seems peculiar...
On February 25 2012 10:26 JOJOsc2news wrote: Doesn't MLG not have a feedback section on their own site? Every little thing gets a thread by now. Feedback, someone covering this and that, scheduling flights of tournament attendants etc. Please don't get me wrong, I do not disapprove because it is contributing to the community but this crazy flood of MLG posts over the past week is overwhelming. Is this because it wasn't put on the calender? It is very effective though. There was/is no way to not hear about nearly every single aspect of MLG Winter Arena. It just seems peculiar...
what about this quote makes you think they want to host this thread on their website... "Our website sucks we get it"... Also they probably don't get that much traffic on their website.
On February 25 2012 10:26 JOJOsc2news wrote: Doesn't MLG not have a feedback section on their own site? Every little thing gets a thread by now. Feedback, someone covering this and that, scheduling flights of tournament attendants etc. Please don't get me wrong, I do not disapprove because it is contributing to the community but this crazy flood of MLG posts over the past week is overwhelming. Is this because it wasn't put on the calender? It is very effective though. There was/is no way to not hear about nearly every single aspect of MLG Winter Arena. It just seems peculiar...
what about this quote makes you think they want to host this thread on their website... "Our website sucks we get it"... Also they probably don't get that much traffic on their website.
I didn't realize how old the thread was. I thought this just went up. Makes sense to gather feedback of the online qualifiers.
On February 25 2012 10:41 diddLY wrote: A couple hiccups at the beginning, but now I've got quad view going strong. Nice job so far MLG!
I do wish the 'BUY NOW' button would go away after buying. Gives me a little anxiety that I'll get the 'subscribe' pop up in the middle of a match ^^
Same here, I'm always worried about that kind of stuff.
It's funny that the worst part of this tournament is that there is literally too much good stuff happening at once. I find myself switching between 2-3 of the streams all at once.
On February 25 2012 10:41 diddLY wrote: A couple hiccups at the beginning, but now I've got quad view going strong. Nice job so far MLG!
I do wish the 'BUY NOW' button would go away after buying. Gives me a little anxiety that I'll get the 'subscribe' pop up in the middle of a match ^^
It's funny that the worst part of this tournament is that there is literally too much good stuff happening at once. I find myself switching between 2-3 of the streams all at once.
Very true! If anyone is on the fence about buying, I suggest.
On February 25 2012 10:41 diddLY wrote: A couple hiccups at the beginning, but now I've got quad view going strong. Nice job so far MLG!
I do wish the 'BUY NOW' button would go away after buying. Gives me a little anxiety that I'll get the 'subscribe' pop up in the middle of a match ^^
It's funny that the worst part of this tournament is that there is literally too much good stuff happening at once. I find myself switching between 2-3 of the streams all at once.
Very true! If anyone is on the fence about buying, I suggest.
with this new player that mlg has you can keep those streams up and keep an eye on each match for whats on and you can listen to them with a couple clicks and you're in. Its just a hard thing to explain but its really worth the 20$ I think.
I paid for the pass, and everything has been great until now! Except I keep being asked to relog in to watch the stream, and I keep getting "bumped from this session"
well if mlg forces me to pay to watch games im just gonna watch restream wich doesnt use twich and shit so mlg wont find it im sorry im not rich and theres 2k viewers on restream so you fail with forcing ppl to pay
So I just paid for the stream from the MLG website itself (username: UNC_Haneul) instead of from twitch. I guess that was a mistake, since despite the $20 charge showing up in my bank account, I'm being asked to purchase the ticket again, and cannot watch the stream.
On February 25 2012 10:53 EtherealDeath wrote: So I just paid for the stream from the MLG website itself (username: UNC_Haneul) instead of from twitch. I guess that was a mistake, since despite the $20 charge showing up in my bank account, I'm being asked to purchase the ticket again, and cannot watch the stream.
On February 25 2012 10:49 kcaz wrote: I paid for the pass, and everything has been great until now! Except I keep being asked to relog in to watch the stream, and I keep getting "bumped from this session"
Yea, same here...makes the dual/trio/quad view awkward. Still worth it, but annoying.
On February 25 2012 10:49 kcaz wrote: I paid for the pass, and everything has been great until now! Except I keep being asked to relog in to watch the stream, and I keep getting "bumped from this session"
yup getting really annoying, had to re login about 5 times in 5 minutes at one point
So I purchased the arena and keep getting the subscribe overlay over and over. it works if i keep logging in, but after a couple minutes it will ask me to log in again... pretty damn annoying.
also the gameplay stream 1 keeps telling me that i have been bumped from the session...
also when i click support, the email and live support pages will not load. Any ideas MLG?
Hey guys, as I mentioned previously in this thread:
A small number of users are experiencing some sort of issue with caching, which is causing some of the issues you're seeing (bumped, or asked to re-login). We're working furiously on this and I will let you all know when we've got a solution in place. Please post here if you are having an issue in this manner.
On February 25 2012 11:15 MLG-Kyle wrote: Hey guys, as I mentioned previously in this thread:
A small number of users are experiencing some sort of issue with caching, which is causing some of the issues you're seeing (bumped, or asked to re-login). We're working furiously on this and I will let you all know when we've got a solution in place. Please post here if you are having an issue in this manner.
On February 25 2012 10:49 kcaz wrote: I paid for the pass, and everything has been great until now! Except I keep being asked to relog in to watch the stream, and I keep getting "bumped from this session"
yup getting really annoying, had to re login about 5 times in 5 minutes at one point
I kept getting bumped and asked to subscribe. After about 10-15 times I switched browser from Chrome to Firefox and I haven't been having any issues yet, so if you experience this problem try changing browsers if you have not already.
One fix that might work is logging into the streams individually. You might still have an issue with Gameplay Stream 1, but we've seen this work for some people.
I hope that helps while we work to resolve the issue.
I keep getting bumped from the A1 stream during a epic comeback from sase vs ret. Its not to the point that its really pissing me off but i mean i didnt pay 20 bucks to get bumped during awesome matches.
Other then that so far i think your streams are awesome.
On February 25 2012 11:25 MLG-Kyle wrote: One fix that might work is logging into the streams individually. You might still have an issue with Gameplay Stream 1, but we've seen this work for some people.
I hope that helps while we work to resolve the issue.
It's been working for me doing this, good luck fixing the problem!
On February 25 2012 11:25 MLG-Kyle wrote: One fix that might work is logging into the streams individually. You might still have an issue with Gameplay Stream 1, but we've seen this work for some people.
I hope that helps while we work to resolve the issue.
I have tried this and it only works for a little bit before i get bumped again. Its only happened 3 time so far so not that bad
On February 25 2012 11:15 MLG-Kyle wrote: Hey guys, as I mentioned previously in this thread:
A small number of users are experiencing some sort of issue with caching, which is causing some of the issues you're seeing (bumped, or asked to re-login). We're working furiously on this and I will let you all know when we've got a solution in place. Please post here if you are having an issue in this manner.
Thank you and sorry for the inconvenience
Im having this problem. Happened during Demuslim's bunker rush v NesTea. :-(
This is really really bad. You're making a DRG fan who just paid 20 bucks to watch DRG very angry! The games are going on live right now and I can't fucking watch it because the stream keeps booting me!
This has been my viewing experience thus far; I KNEW I shouldn't have blown $20 on this crap. This has been happening for the last 45 minutes nonstop, oh! And your "Live Online Support" and all other support links just bring up an error page. Not buying an MLG product again.
On February 25 2012 11:51 GatorGar wrote: This has been my viewing experience thus far; I KNEW I shouldn't have blown $20 on this crap. This has been happening for the last 45 minutes nonstop, oh! And your "Live Online Support" and all other support links just bring up an error page. Not buying an MLG product again.
This happened to me twice in the last 3 hours. kind of annoying.
On February 25 2012 11:15 MLG-Kyle wrote: Hey guys, as I mentioned previously in this thread:
A small number of users are experiencing some sort of issue with caching, which is causing some of the issues you're seeing (bumped, or asked to re-login). We're working furiously on this and I will let you all know when we've got a solution in place. Please post here if you are having an issue in this manner.
Thank you and sorry for the inconvenience
Specifically the issue for me is that every time I switch streams I have to re-login. I've taken to just watching the primary stream. Using google chrome. It looks like using a multi-view and logging into all of them will work as well.
On February 25 2012 11:15 MLG-Kyle wrote: Hey guys, as I mentioned previously in this thread:
A small number of users are experiencing some sort of issue with caching, which is causing some of the issues you're seeing (bumped, or asked to re-login). We're working furiously on this and I will let you all know when we've got a solution in place. Please post here if you are having an issue in this manner.
Thank you and sorry for the inconvenience
Getting booted at approx 5 minute intervals. Please use a portion of my 20 bucks to fix.
I keep getting "bumped" or asking for a re-login sometimes as frequently as 2x per minute on some streams...I'm not that happy but it seems to be working again, I've been ok for the past 5min. I went through a good 30min of pain though, and kinda regretting paying after people are reporting that they can watch this for free.
I'm getting bumped and asked to log in constantly, it is extremely annoying and I've missed about half of the games so far. I wanted to believe in MLG and spent $20.00 on the stream but this is ridiculous.
On February 25 2012 11:51 GatorGar wrote: This has been my viewing experience thus far; I KNEW I shouldn't have blown $20 on this crap. This has been happening for the last 45 minutes nonstop, oh! And your "Live Online Support" and all other support links just bring up an error page. Not buying an MLG product again.
i had that problem, but on the popup telling you to buy the PPV pass, in the bottom right, there is a link that says log in. i clicked that and logged into my twitch account for each of the popups and they never came back
Everything works fine for me streaming wise, love the schedule function integrated with google calendar, however one suggestion for future tournaments using this system for me would be to be a little more clear after you pay for the stream and receive an invoice, get an email or instructions on what to do, where to go, explain that this is done through j.tv instead of mlg.com.
On February 25 2012 12:01 goswser wrote: I'm getting bumped and asked to log in constantly, it is extremely annoying and I've missed about half of the games so far. I wanted to believe in MLG and spent $20.00 on the stream but this is ridiculous.
QFT. I didn't want to spend the money either, but convinced myself that A) $15 isn't expensive and B) it was worth the money for the amount of time. I am exteremly disappointed with the stream so far. A couple of my friends are experiencing the same thing.
I have no problem paying for a service, but when the service becomes an inconvenience, I'm much less excited. Hopefully they figure it out or somehow find a way to make it up to us. Once we are paying, we are fully allowed to complain.
On February 25 2012 12:07 GatorGar wrote: Word I'll try that thanks.
Yeah if youre not signing in on the account you bought the pass for, thats your problem. I had to log in on each of the 4 screens, and I haven't had a problem.
Using chrome in incognito mode helps to that "getting bumped" problem...only side effect is that you dont actualy have to log in...at all. Looks like its free to view tournament afterall.
On February 25 2012 12:07 GatorGar wrote: Word I'll try that thanks.
Yeah if youre not signing in on the account you bought the pass for, thats your problem. I had to log in on each of the 4 screens, and I haven't had a problem.
Are you retarded buddy? I had logged into each window separately at least 8 times and kept getting the error. You're talking to a computer science major who's been on computers since he was 8, I think I know how to login to a fucking website. Read my posts before commenting.
On February 25 2012 12:07 GatorGar wrote: Word I'll try that thanks.
Yeah if youre not signing in on the account you bought the pass for, thats your problem. I had to log in on each of the 4 screens, and I haven't had a problem.
Are you retarded buddy? I had logged into each window separately at least 8 times and kept getting the error. You're talking to a computer science major who's been on computers since he was 8, I think I know how to login to a fucking website. Read my posts before commenting.
While I know it sucks, you need to chill. I've met plenty of CompSci majors who can't log in to a website. We're all semi-frustrated, no reason to lash out.
Everything is awesome. the one thing i have to say tho is, im so annoyed everytime i switch streams i have to sign in on my twitch again....quite annoying
He did not read my posts before making a dumb comment. And no you haven't "met plenty of CompSci majors who can't login to a website." Leave the anecdotal crap for reddit. This is the MLG Broadcast Feedback thread. We're trying to figure out what is going on here.
I am facing the same problem with the interface and it keeps asking me to log in every single time. It has happened some 10 times now. I have tried everything. This is absolutely disgusting and i really want my money back. Also there are people who have not paid but are somehow getting access to the stream, something that enrages me further. MLG will never get my money again for a stream.
Is anybody else having problems with lag when watching in 1080p? It isn't my connection as I have a 150 mb fibre optic connection with 120 mb/s dl 20 mb/s upload.
On February 25 2012 12:17 GatorGar wrote: He did not read my posts before making a dumb comment. And no you haven't "met plenty of CompSci majors who can't login to a website." Leave the anecdotal crap for reddit. This is the MLG Broadcast Feedback thread. We're trying to figure out what is going on here.
I don't use reddit, so I guess that options out. My buddy called and they told him to clear cache and cookies. The best we can do is continually try to get ahold of these guys and ask for answers. Have you tried calling?
On February 25 2012 12:19 AstronautMikeDexter wrote: Is anybody else having problems with lag when watching in 1080p? It isn't my connection as I have a 150 mb fibre optic connection with 120 mb/s dl 20 mb/s upload.
Im Having some fairly serious stuttering problems, but only on the Arena Channel, the other 3 are fine.
I opened IE and logged in clean with it. Didn't fix it. I remember when I clicked my confirmation e-mail that my login name began with a capital letter (some kind of formatting thing on their end).
I opened the MLG.com/live page in Firefox, turned off adblock, refreshed the page, and logged into 3 windows with a lowercase h and one with an uppercase H. 10 minutes error free now (longest in a couple hours).
Maybe it was AdBlock? Weird I haven't had any issues with it in the last 6 months. Could definitely be it though.
My stream keeps having massive lag spikes, on any resolution... it also keeps "bump"ing me from the streams as well. Very rarely, without refreshing the page, ro changing streams, it makes me relog into justin.tv.... help?
I am pretty disappointed at this point...night is almost over and I'm consistently getting logged out of some of the streams up, big lag spikes in others.. I honestly get better streaming on my phone on 3G while on a bus to work. Please get your stuff together for tomorrow MLG the games have been great and the interface is awesome I dont want to miss anymore due to these streaming problems.
On February 25 2012 12:19 AstronautMikeDexter wrote: Is anybody else having problems with lag when watching in 1080p? It isn't my connection as I have a 150 mb fibre optic connection with 120 mb/s dl 20 mb/s upload.
Im Having some fairly serious stuttering problems, but only on the Arena Channel, the other 3 are fine.
Same, the other ones work fine for me too. 720p is still great quality so I can't grumble too much. Still quite an odd problem.
On February 25 2012 12:07 GatorGar wrote: Word I'll try that thanks.
Yeah if youre not signing in on the account you bought the pass for, thats your problem. I had to log in on each of the 4 screens, and I haven't had a problem.
Are you retarded buddy? I had logged into each window separately at least 8 times and kept getting the error. You're talking to a computer science major who's been on computers since he was 8, I think I know how to login to a fucking website. Read my posts before commenting.
No actually I'm not, and I just pointed out just as the other person above me based on your screenshot where you were NOT logged in that you need to log in. And since you're a little butthurt raging idiot, yeah I have no doubt you don't know what the fuck you're doing. Sorry for trying to help you, you must be a pleasant person to be around.
a few relogins required, but usually just if I refresh. Otherwise everything has been running smooth - 1080p no problem and crystal clear (on university internet though).
Got this bought for me as a present and I have to say, the interface is slick, the video quality is amazing and the games have been sensational so far. No lag, at all. Couple of teething problems logging in for about five minutes after the paywall went up.
Lack of a crowd does mean it doesn't "feel" like MLG though.
I guess PPV is ok, provided it's not so often as to royally take the piss, and if there is a thorough overlook into the pricing structure.
The gods have smiled upon me, it works. For those of you who are wondering, yes it is absolutely worth the money when the damn stream works. This 4 window interface is straight slick dude. Like click and dragging streams around. It feels like an iPad but with HD MLG.
I thought I was going to miss Demuslims game. GO EG!
I feel for those who are having issues with the stream, but it's working for me and it's pretty good. It has good functionality with arranging the views being able to customize. I have 4 up and the audio switches with a click.They definitely worked on reducing the down time, there's always a game or casters/players commentating or discussing the tournament.
I would still say drop it to $10-15, but I don't think $20 is ridiculous considering the quality. For sure though, if I was having those problems I would be pissed for paying despite the cost
edit: I got in a little late but the more I watch the more I'm ok with $20 considering you get 3 days worth of it. it seems like they put a lot of thought and effort into the process. oh and the city back drops are tight
On February 10 2012 06:22 Ingebrigtsen wrote: I really liked the part were the broadcast was on when all the europeans were sleeping
what is this sleep you are talking about? :D
my feedback on mlg is simply the free stream. I don't want to buy a premium ticket since normally on MLG online hours I'm not online or busy, but I'd love to watch es much as possible
I don't have much to say about the players and casters, since they're all so great.
Overall, the broadcast is excellent. MLG's layout works really well, and it's actually worth it for $20 if I can switch streams so easily without an annoying ad pop up. The video quality is excellent - 1080p plays without lag.
The production is the best attempt ever for a non-korean tournament. The graphical overlays look great, the video and audio mixing is seamless for the most part. The lighting is pretty good, but is far from perfect. Still, you guys could for sure do a better job with the production for next time. The streams besides the arena stream are choppy and have poor audio. Even the framing is just terrible on some of your shots on the alternate streams. With such a nice looking arena stream, it just looks cheesy having to watch alternate streams with interviews that look like they're done on a webcam. For the Arena stream, the backdrop of NYC is very cool, since it really gives you the feeling of being in the city. But you guys skimped on the production for the main stage for sure. I would have liked to see more open shots of the arena. If you're going to call it arena, at least make it look like one. Then you don't need to hide your production with tight shots. The lighting is so dim. I know you want people to be able to see new york, but you should have adjustable lights that can cut out if you want to show the city. For those who can only stream lower quality, the blacks just come out like garbage.
The Dr. Pepper Ultimate Access Stream is a great edition. Some feedback I have though is that you should have dressed up the room a little bit more. Light it with LED strips or something. The overhead shot of the room just kind of looks like some bro's basement.
The look and feel of the event justifies the $20 ticket, but I know what MLG is capable of, and they are skimping on the small details to bring the event up to GSL level.
Ah! It should also be noted that my login problems began when I clicked on the Dr.Pepper free stream and started watching it. Anybody else have that happen?
I believe I may have found a temporary workaround for the login issues. If someone could try this and let us know if it works, It'd be great to get some more testers. If you are constantly being logged out or being bumped, please try the following:
- Open Incognito or Private Browsing Mode - Go to Live Site - Load Overview - Login to each stream individually - Swap around as you choose
Again, sorry for the inconvenience - but I hope this temporary work around works for you as it has been for me. Please let me know what kind of success you're having, if any, with this method.
Logging in individually has worked for me, it's just a bit frustrating, especially when Flash occasionally decides to commit suicide because of the 5 720p streams.
Other than that though, I've been very happy with everything. I was worried about some of the casting but everyone's been at least above average, and sometimes much more. I especially like when you bring in players to cast such as Grubby, Axslav and Catz, so more of that would be appreciated. And of course the interviews are good.
The Dr. Pepper cam has been mostly useless so far, aside from HB teaching Shibby how to cannon rush, but it's not that big of a deal. You should place hidden mics in the room and provide lots of free alcohol, and then call it the VIP stream and charge an extra $40. Extra bonus if there's silly string and random banana cream pies and full Gatorade coolers lying around. Or invite all of IdrA's groupies into the room with him and see what unfolds.
I was worried that the 4 streams would be too much and I'd be anxious that I was missing something (sort of why they do the NFL Red Zone and special March Madness channels), and while it's happened a bit, it hasn't been as bad as I thought it'd be. For the most part, the dead times have overlapped well.
Having the small preview up in the right corner of a secondary stream, and the main one up... is awesome. I love the customizable layout. The quality. Everything seems to work really nice. I'm having a good time, glad I got this.
The interface is very intuitive and simple, and its easy to bounce between streams or watch 2 or 3 at once. Surprising given the MLG website, but this is nice.
Great production. The inclusion of the mysterious Rob (is he the Blizz Esports guy?) is fantastic and getting some of the players in on the games (Grubby and Catz were great) is entertaining too. The four streams definitely seemed like a lot, wasn't in the end, but it feels like the amount of games played today are sort of being crammed in. I guess I'm a little too used to the pool/bracket combo from the Pro Circuit.
Great streams so far aside from the log in issue which I've been able to resolve. However, I wished you had a player cam for each stream. I really wanted to see NesTea's reaction when he lost to Demuslim
The Dr. Pepper Ultimate Access Stream is a great edition. Some feedback I have though is that you should have dressed up the room a little bit more. Light it with LED strips or something. The overhead shot of the room just kind of looks like some bro's basement.
Just want to touch on this as a non-paying viewer. I wanted to check out the production value of MLG to see if I missed out on a good show but when I tuned in to the only stream that is available to those not paying i get a boring interview where Slahser is just talking about what is happening in a game. I see players just sleeping on couches lounging around. I see somebody's basement. Come on... compared to IPL's stream where Lani runs about getting interviews the whole day, MLG seriously failed with the DR Pepper ULTIMATE access stream.
Sorry to see some people are having log in issues. No problems here and I'm fucking loving it. This is infinitely better than just watching an embedded stream on TL.
Does everyone else have the problem of having to re-type user and password everytime you switch streams? Really annoying. Otherwise, awesome awesome production and games.
On February 25 2012 13:27 Jibba wrote: Logging in individually has worked for me, it's just a bit frustrating, especially when Flash occasionally decides to commit suicide because of the 5 720p streams.
Other than that though, I've been very happy with everything. I was worried about some of the casting but everyone's been at least above average, and sometimes much more. I especially like when you bring in players to cast such as Grubby, Axslav and Catz, so more of that would be appreciated. And of course the interviews are good.
The Dr. Pepper cam has been mostly useless so far, aside from HB teaching Shibby how to cannon rush, but it's not that big of a deal. You should place hidden mics in the room and provide lots of free alcohol, and then call it the VIP stream and charge an extra $40. Extra bonus if there's silly string and random banana cream pies and full Gatorade coolers lying around. Or invite all of IdrA's groupies into the room with him and see what unfolds.
I was worried that the 4 streams would be too much and I'd be anxious that I was missing something (sort of why they do the NFL Red Zone and special March Madness channels), and while it's happened a bit, it hasn't been as bad as I thought it'd be. For the most part, the dead times have overlapped well.
Pretty much agree with this. Havent really had the log in troubles some people are experiencing, just what Jibba posted.
Overall I am very happy and think its worth $20. There is polishing to be done, but I really like the set up. One thing I would like to see is the casting area of the non main stream casters needs to be improved. It looks way too bland and boring. White walls with an MLG poster, eh, not cutting it.
First off I want to say that I'm glad I payed for this and it's very good and entertaining. I do have a few things I personally dislike though.
I sometimes get the stream interrupted by the "log in or purchase a ticket" stream which is kind of annoying, but I'm not sure if it's something on MLGs side or just on mine, not really a big deal overall. It kind of seems like there aren't really enough casters to make all 4 of the streams absolute top notch. Like I know 1 or 2 of the streams just have solo casters, but I can also understand that getting 8 top notch casters is expensive and also quite hard. Other than that, I'd just be happier if it was a bit cheaper than $20, but so far still a very good broadcast.
Here's a thing that i really miss and would improve things for a lot of people. I live in Sweden and as you may know Sweden is in a different timezone. Converting timezones can be a pain in the ass and leaves you to ask silly questions in the chat. This could be easily fixed if you would include a clock that shows the local time. It could be placed in the top bar in the Twitch UI.
Well I was at a friends house, some really good games (upset with ret/mvp) but I'm curious, is MLG doing its post VOD for free still? Where they release all vod's from an event free? I was wondering because I wanna watch some series that I definatly missed.
On February 25 2012 15:08 NeMeSiS3 wrote: Well I was at a friends house, some really good games (upset with ret/mvp) but I'm curious, is MLG doing its post VOD for free still? Where they release all vod's from an event free? I was wondering because I wanna watch some series that I definatly missed.
VODs are free a week after the event, if you have a pass, you can go watch VODs now. i don't think all are up yet because they were delayed since there were pay wall difficulties.
Just wanted to comment real quick on the login issues some people saw today. We think it's fixed. You should be able to login to each stream once now and it will remain logged in. Also, Gameplay 1 will no longer crash.
I would love to see if it's working for everyone else before we get going tomorrow, so feel free to hop on and confirm.
I thought there would be one stream in say low quality i could watch some of the games.. I am sadly mistaken.. sad alone and tired from long day, i think MLG lost 60-80% of viewers
This has been such an amazing tournament, well casted and good quality, but could you please just enable a cookie or something so we don't have to log in to each individual stream? I logged in probably 30 times today to keep watching. :/
Edit: and I think the quality of this tournament has totally warranted the price. I will not only get my money worth but I'll support the growth of esports! "You're doing a great job. just fix the log in issue
Just wanted to say that Picture-in-Picture is absolutely amazing. Plus keeping an eye on the smaller stream to catch big fights is just like training yourself to watch the minimap!
I just wish the stream wasn't so bandwidth hungry. It does look amazing, though.
My experience is a great first day. I had no issues after logging in once on each stream (Firefox 10.0.2), watched entire thing with no interuption while switching streams. Production value is high, even if small improvements could be made here and there, as others have mentioned.
I guess the only thing I feel could use a quick improvement for day 2 is to fix the brightness or whatever on the player cams. Especially the blue one is just so dark you cant see anything worthwhile. However only fix this if it doesn't bother the players (like if you have to put more lights up in their faces, its not worth it).
Hopefully some of the people involved gets some sleep to reduce jetlag for tomorrow. Tasteless was so delirious in the end he didnt make any sense, despite creating some hillarious situations with his rambling.
My main complaint is that since I'm watching the streams on 3 computers (just makes it easier for me) the players prompted me to login probably a total of 10 times yesterday which was really annoying, especially when it happened during heated moments... oh well.
My issue is with the VODs. While It's good that you get them so quick. Lower resolution VODs are not available. Also, I would like it if it would Autoplay the next game in the set, which is probably not possible in the Twitch.tv system
edit: you guys really should rebroadcast similar to how it's done for the pro circuit events. So that people who miss watching it live can experience it in a similar fashion.
For those that have the PPV, mind if I ask this question?
Poll: After Day 1 - How do you feel about the PPV?
Entertaining, but probably won't buy again unless cheaper (34)
38%
Feel like it wasn't worth it, won't buy again (29)
33%
Definitely worth it, would buy again (26)
29%
89 total votes
Your vote: After Day 1 - How do you feel about the PPV?
(Vote): Definitely worth it, would buy again (Vote): Entertaining, but probably won't buy again unless cheaper (Vote): Feel like it wasn't worth it, won't buy again
P.s. please only answer if you have the PPV, it may be tempting to try and trash MLG and their PPV decision by voting not worth it, but I think we can all be interested in hearing feedback from those actually watching.
the vod system is a total shit and is loading painfully slow. of the little i saw last night the stream was pretty laggy aswell, which is absurd since hardly anyone is watching. perhaps just a european problem?
the video quality however is good and so are the games and the casting. GL on day 2!
i had some problems last night with the 1080p stream, the picture would freeze but the audio would carry on. i know my connection is fine and my pc can handle it so it was frustrating having those freezes ;/ is there anything i can do to be able to watch 1080p without getting annoyed?
You guys might want to fix it so people can't access your stream for free by just blocking certain things in ad-block, I won't go into more detail than that. Loved the event and production yesterday and hate to see you suffer for some incompetence on the technical end.
I personally had some issues with the actual player, but all in all it was really cool. Not sure if I'd be willing to spend that much again, especially if there are more than 1 or 2 per season. I think that I'd be able to justify 10 in the future personally. But that being said, I love all the content. The sheer quality of the matches that this format brings is awesome. Didn't have much time to check out the Dr. Pepper stream because of how many matches I wanted to watch lol. The only two things I saw was Ret talking to who I would assume is his girlfriend, and Shibby trolling the ladder with HotBid's help lol. I now know how to successfully cannon rush my way to masters lol.
On an unrelated note, I had some troubles actually buying the pass lol. The page wouldn't load after I clicked pay now and so I (rather stupidly) clicked 2 more times instead of waiting like I should have. Needless to say, I paid 60 dollars for something that should have cost me 15 lol.
went out with friends and had work, so missed the whole first day. as i am watching asus, i am debating whether to just stay up to watch the end of asus, or buy a pass and start watching mlg tomorrow. mlg has the much better players though.....
On February 10 2012 06:22 Ingebrigtsen wrote: I really liked the part were the broadcast was on when all the europeans were sleeping
eh.... loveing how Assembly is starts when Westerns are sleeping ^_^ you cant please ever one dude...
They will now know the pain of being an American starcraft fan!
As it's been said infinite times already, having to constantly log in to watch the streams is annoying, but not the end of the world. Good product overall, I'm glad my impulse buy has been worth it!
On February 10 2012 06:28 Robin_thewonder wrote: I for one, thought it was great. Really glad MLG let Tumba on to cast with you. He deserves the attention and in my opinion did fantastic. If possible, maybe less breaks in between games...I understand you gotta get replays setup and what not but I found myself losing interest.
Other than that, amazing work and I can't wait to see more in the coming days.
i think there were some tech issues with a few games might of been why they had so many long breaks
I am just sad that even if MLG might be worth the 20$ it's just on a such bad time for EU hence make it a clearly bad decision to buy it. EUs with jobs have no way of seeing it live so it's really bad businesses for us.
On February 10 2012 06:22 Ingebrigtsen wrote: I really liked the part were the broadcast was on when all the europeans were sleeping
eh.... loveing how Assembly is starts when Westerns are sleeping ^_^ you cant please ever one dude...
Do you even understand he was talking about the *european* qualifiers starting in the middle of the night in Europe and not the main MLG Arena ? (europe are westerns fyi, too :D)
On February 25 2012 18:51 CursedRich wrote: why no rebroadcast? id rather that than vods
totally agree.. ive been waiting for leenock vs thorzain, game one, for 15 min and its halfway done.. this is stupid. im on 100mb down so this shouldnt really be a problem.
On February 25 2012 18:51 CursedRich wrote: why no rebroadcast? id rather that than vods
totally agree.. ive been waiting for leenock vs thorzain, game one, for 15 min and its halfway done.. this is stupid. im on 100mb down so this shouldnt really be a problem.
I watched till 5am CET last night before I could not stay awake anymore and crashed so I got a bit of feedback for you.
First of all I have to commend you for daring to be the first to make it PPV. It is a huge move and a very important one for the e-sports scene. Not that I dont want everything for free like everyone else but you are the first to make it clear for everyone that e-sports need to generate money and you are putting yourself in the line of fire doing so. You legitimize making profit, something that every other tournament organizer should thank you for, and its not just great it is needed for the longterm sustainability of the e-sports.
So far my 15 dollars as a gold member has been absolutely worth it. It is without a doubt the best foreign tournament and rivals the GSL in value. I do have a few things to point out that could be improved in the future.
Maps. Safe, borring and outdated are the words that comes to mind when I look at your map pool. New maps are not just creating variety for the viewers to get a different experience, many new maps are just better designed to create better, more interesting and more fair games. While your map pool is reasonably balanced, they are generally straight forward without positional features and technical terrain that allows a player to play from behind and for better players to utilize the map to gain an advantage. Your current map pool is likely balanced in winrates but many maps released in the last 6 months are designed to give advantages to the better players. You have always been extremely conservative about your map pool but it is not a moment too late to change that.
Dedicated observers. In one area GSL is lightyears ahead of every other tournament. They have a dedicated observer. Go watch a GSL match, then watch one of your own. Focus solely on the camerawork. Everything is so much smoother, so much more comfortable to watch and so few battles or drops are missed. In comparison the GSL looks like a studioproduction while yours looks like a guy with a handheld camera running across a bumpy field. Given your budget and what you charge for the event you should consider adding dedicated observers to your payroll. Yes they are performing a job that is already being taken of by a caster so it may seem like you are just throwing around money by doing so but the difference is incredible. It is probally the easiest areas to improve upon and the difference is going to be huge.
Staying logged in. I probally logged in 2 dozen times last night due to your otherwise excellent site being unable to remember me as logged in. Not gonna adress this any further, probally a ton of ppl complained about this already.
1080 lag. Your 1080 looks crisp, really outstanding quality but I would get a small lagspike every 5 seconds or so, so I watched in 720 all night. I read that many others had the similair problem. Tell TheGunRun to fix.
Overall it was really great, absolutely worth the bucks and I will support it in the future. Not perfect though, there is still room for improvement.
On February 25 2012 18:51 CursedRich wrote: why no rebroadcast? id rather that than vods
totally agree.. ive been waiting for leenock vs thorzain, game one, for 15 min and its halfway done.. this is stupid. im on 100mb down so this shouldnt really be a problem.
Sundance knows the website sucks. He gets it. :D
haha yea, well he gets something, i think its to early to say that that something is infact "it". small comfort anyways when i spend 20 bucks to navigate a frustrating pile of steaming shit. i thought they were going to loop the stream oh god why MLG..
There seems to be bug on MLG Website. I could nearly watch without breaks and I didn't pay. I was only asked to subscribe once in an hour or so and when I switched streams I could watch again. I use firefox with adblock.
Edit: Stream quality and layout was awesome btw but I wouldnt buy because it's far too late for me to watch everything.
Everything has been great apart from the lag europe seems to have been getting, at first it lagged on all qualities, then it only lagged on the 1080p option. The same problem doesn't seem to apply to people in the US, I'm sure you've heard this before but I'm just adding to the others who have spoken up about it.
Other than that a fantastic tournament, I'm glad I paid for it.
Usually I dont like to complain. However as I could not watch the first round yesterday I went ahead and try to use the VOD system. As the video are really high def and my internet not great, I did what I do for GSL without any trouble : pause the video so that it load a little bit, to avoid lag. Does work at all with this MLG VOD system. Thus i just switched to watch assembly.
Needless to say i'm hugely disapointed, as it's a paying service.
If anyone can MP me the place where I can send this to MLG/Twitch support, that would be helpful.
I couldn't watch the streams in 1080p either, the pictures froze every ~20 seconds for ~5 seconds, this is not a bandwidth issue for me or a twitch issue for that matter, I can usually watch multiple streams of similar quality/bitrate without problems, kinda disappointing that the payed service isn't working properly. I just finished watching the VODs, it surprised me that there was no rebroadcast on demand since MLG usually does it this way, I missed all the fun/banter between games. Really takes away from the experience. :/
Another thing that mildly annoyed me that you could fix on the fly was balance between sound feeds, sometimes one caster is way too low while you can hear every breath of the other one, sometimes the game sound is too loud.
The vods are just slideshows with some games still missing (idra vs oz for example) as a european who couldnt stay up all night id appreciate if you could fix this issue, watching a slideshow with perfect sound is really annoying.
The amount of games MLG provided with the multiple stream layouts made the $20 worth it, but that's only for the SC2 fanatic. All of my other friends refused to buy it =(.
1080p had some lag issues, not sure if it was my computer being incapable of handling a 1080 stream or MLG's fault.
On February 25 2012 22:42 tofubeans wrote: I can't seem to get the VOD links to work at http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/mlg/arenavod -- A lot of the links don't do anything when I click on it. Is it just me?
On February 25 2012 22:42 tofubeans wrote: I can't seem to get the VOD links to work at http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/mlg/arenavod -- A lot of the links don't do anything when I click on it. Is it just me?
Which ones?
Most seem to work. The ones i tried.
For instance when I click on the Thorzain vs Sheth links, nothing happens :o
On February 25 2012 22:42 tofubeans wrote: I can't seem to get the VOD links to work at http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/mlg/arenavod -- A lot of the links don't do anything when I click on it. Is it just me?
Which ones?
Most seem to work. The ones i tried.
For instance when I click on the Thorzain vs Sheth links, nothing happens :o
Looks like the links are wrong.
Should be a simple fix on MLG's part.
(if you mouse over it the link is incorrect, compared to other links to the vods) Oz vs idra does the same.
* Twitch Login problems (request for each stream, sometimes it works by login into twitch first) * Volume between streams not normalized. * Find better use of the Dr.Pepper Stream, give the players something fun to do while waiting.
* Throw away that player you made, it looks nice but it's crap and not user friendly. * Secure your own content * Dr Pepper stream is useful for what? I really dont see the point of that one.
great tourney and broadcasting so far. On the doctor pepper cam you should have HOT BID going around the Arena, sorta like that asian chick did at that one IPL. he could interview or just like dick around
i personally think this first Arena static tournament should of been free, to get all the kinks out or at least till its good, then make it pay, uv got tuns of customers complaining about issues. i thought this was the case before it went live. show the community what you have to offer then make it PPV.
Staying logged in. I probally logged in 2 dozen times last night due to your otherwise excellent site being unable to remember me as logged in. Not gonna adress this any further, probally a ton of ppl complained about this.
1 - We're aware of the VOD issues and working on them: - 5 missing matches - Lack of quality options on most VODs - a couple of incorrect video links - a couple of videos get cut off
2. The login issues some people saw yesterday should be fixed. Please let me know if you're still seeing issues. The paywall is down for now for our free kickoff, but will go back up following the first series of the day.
Aside from the twitch login snafu, I'm pretty happy with my purchase. The stream quality is good, the drag and drop system for the multiple streams makes it easy to customize my viewing experience and I especially like that MLG is giving lesser known casters some exposure.
I really enjoyed the broadcast yesterday. The main stream had amazing production value in comparison to older MLG events. One thing that I really liked was when whoever was casting would talk to the "peanut gallery" after a game. It was really fun to see Nick, Dan, Rob, Marcus and JP goofing around and talking about how a game went down. On that note however, I noticed that MLG has cut out the intros and outros by the casters on the VODs. I would much rather see a GSL like format VOD that doesn't just have the game but also the production around it (as the production is focused on the games at hand anyway). Besides the VODs missing the beloved peanut gallery, everything has been well worth my $20 :D Thanks to MLG for this awesome new PPV event
On February 26 2012 03:08 MLG-Kyle wrote: Hey guys - 2 things.
1 - We're aware of the VOD issues and working on them: - 5 missing matches - Lack of quality options on most VODs - a couple of incorrect video links - a couple of videos get cut off
2. The login issues some people saw yesterday should be fixed. Please let me know if you're still seeing issues. The paywall is down for now for our free kickoff, but will go back up following the first series of the day.
Looking forward to a kickass Day 2
For people without a great Internet connection, you basically screwed us. Between missing, bad links and getting cut off, and the ones available stuttering due to no low-res. You shouldn't have advertised this feature if you couldn't deliver. I'm going to be asking for a refund.
edit: I've no idea how to ask for a refund, so I guess you made an easy $20. I can't complain, I should have known better.
On February 26 2012 03:08 MLG-Kyle wrote: Hey guys - 2 things.
1 - We're aware of the VOD issues and working on them: - 5 missing matches - Lack of quality options on most VODs - a couple of incorrect video links - a couple of videos get cut off
2. The login issues some people saw yesterday should be fixed. Please let me know if you're still seeing issues. The paywall is down for now for our free kickoff, but will go back up following the first series of the day.
Looking forward to a kickass Day 2
For people without a great Internet connection, you basically screwed us. Between missing, bad links and getting cut off, and the ones available stuttering due to no low-res. You shouldn't have advertised this feature if you couldn't deliver. I'm going to be asking for a refund.
edit: I've no idea how to ask for a refund, so I guess you made an easy $20. I can't complain, I should have known better.
What am I missing? They have a low-res, they have 240, 480, 720 and 1080.... the 240p's pretty reasonable quality, it's better than GSL at least.
On February 26 2012 03:08 MLG-Kyle wrote: Hey guys - 2 things.
1 - We're aware of the VOD issues and working on them: - 5 missing matches - Lack of quality options on most VODs - a couple of incorrect video links - a couple of videos get cut off
2. The login issues some people saw yesterday should be fixed. Please let me know if you're still seeing issues. The paywall is down for now for our free kickoff, but will go back up following the first series of the day.
Looking forward to a kickass Day 2
For people without a great Internet connection, you basically screwed us. Between missing, bad links and getting cut off, and the ones available stuttering due to no low-res. You shouldn't have advertised this feature if you couldn't deliver. I'm going to be asking for a refund.
edit: I've no idea how to ask for a refund, so I guess you made an easy $20. I can't complain, I should have known better.
What am I missing? They have a low-res, they have 240, 480, 720 and 1080.... the 240p's pretty reasonable quality, it's better than GSL at least.
It sucks that you're having issues, but your argument is kind of off considering MLG doesn't have control of your the quality of your internet connection.
That's like buying a new PC game, only to find out your PC isn't strong enough to run it properly. It's not the game developer's problem.
MLG should however advertise minimum requirements if in fact this is a wide spread issue (not sure if they have or do)
On February 26 2012 03:08 MLG-Kyle wrote: Hey guys - 2 things.
1 - We're aware of the VOD issues and working on them: - 5 missing matches - Lack of quality options on most VODs - a couple of incorrect video links - a couple of videos get cut off
2. The login issues some people saw yesterday should be fixed. Please let me know if you're still seeing issues. The paywall is down for now for our free kickoff, but will go back up following the first series of the day.
Looking forward to a kickass Day 2
For people without a great Internet connection, you basically screwed us. Between missing, bad links and getting cut off, and the ones available stuttering due to no low-res. You shouldn't have advertised this feature if you couldn't deliver. I'm going to be asking for a refund.
edit: I've no idea how to ask for a refund, so I guess you made an easy $20. I can't complain, I should have known better.
What am I missing? They have a low-res, they have 240, 480, 720 and 1080.... the 240p's pretty reasonable quality, it's better than GSL at least.
MLG gives the best video quality in the world, as well as the best tournaments in the world. I love watching the GSL but MLG will always be #1 in my heart <3
That's like buying a new PC game, only to find out your PC isn't strong enough to run it properly. It's not the game developer's problem.
MLG should however advertise minimum requirements if in fact this is a wide spread issue (not sure if they have or do)
That's like.... not a good analogy at all.
I can watch hi-res GSL fine from the hotel. I can't watch MLG's 1080. I know: I should have known better. I did watch Huk fine in low-res, but the 2nd to last game was cut-off and then the last game doesn't have a low-res. I would consider letting Idra's game load for awhile, but it wasn't available.
I may be being too harsh, wasting $20 isn't the end of the world.
On February 26 2012 03:08 MLG-Kyle wrote: Hey guys - 2 things.
1 - We're aware of the VOD issues and working on them: - 5 missing matches - Lack of quality options on most VODs - a couple of incorrect video links - a couple of videos get cut off
2. The login issues some people saw yesterday should be fixed. Please let me know if you're still seeing issues. The paywall is down for now for our free kickoff, but will go back up following the first series of the day.
Looking forward to a kickass Day 2
For people without a great Internet connection, you basically screwed us. Between missing, bad links and getting cut off, and the ones available stuttering due to no low-res. You shouldn't have advertised this feature if you couldn't deliver. I'm going to be asking for a refund.
edit: I've no idea how to ask for a refund, so I guess you made an easy $20. I can't complain, I should have known better.
What am I missing? They have a low-res, they have 240, 480, 720 and 1080.... the 240p's pretty reasonable quality, it's better than GSL at least.
The guy on Arena 3 is sorta annoying....He's very repetative, and has some rather dumb sayings. He does have good insight, but need to work on his delivery.
On February 26 2012 04:56 MeatlessTaco wrote: I can watch hi-res GSL fine from the hotel. I can't watch MLG's 1080. I know: I should have known better. I did watch Huk fine in low-res, but the 2nd to last game was cut-off and then the last game doesn't have a low-res. I would consider letting Idra's game load for awhile, but it wasn't available.
Isn't the HQ GSL stream something like 480p and 900 kbps? I'm pretty sure MLG's 1080 stream is more like 4 or 5 Mbps.
I think this is awesome. One thing I would like to see is more camera zoom ins on the players faces after matches. I noticed you started doing that on day 2 and I want to see more because I think that is really cool.
I also want to note that yesterday I was unable to watch anything higher than 480p due to lag issues, however today I am watching 1080p perfectly so whatever happened was good. Thanks guys.
I'm starting to feel like this was worth 20 dollars.
On February 26 2012 05:50 blindmaster wrote: no more free stream available?
PPV still broken, like yesterday.
On February 26 2012 05:58 Dundron2000 wrote: some more light on the players on the main stream? i can hardly see the blue side so it kinda makes the player cam a bit pointless..
The problem with having the players infront of a window.
You should have a twitch login to we do not have to login on EACH individual screen to have them all working properly, instead we should log in once and everything should be fine. Besides there is no way to see if you are logged in or not...
Yesterday there was no lag, today it is not going that smoothly, I have to go down in quality and my internet is 25/25mbit. Not really know why the difference between yesterday and today is that big.
Also hope you will get Day9 together with DJWheat in the future events <3
I appreciate that you created this thread. Thank you.
The stream lags. I have to run it at 320p. It's not my computer, as I can download 1.5Mb/s right now and load any other stream just fine. You guys need to double your bandwidth- not just increase it 10% or 20%, but double it. No, it's not torrents or other downloads or a firewall, it's only the MLG stream, everything else is fine It's been like this for MLG streams for a while now.
Also, having to reenter my password 10 times an hour is annoying- sorry, WAS annoying. It isn't happening anymore. Thanks
JP's casting: I honestly didn't like it at first, but I've come to think JP is a real asset to the community and he's my favorite co caster actually now. Not too shabby. I've noticed his improvement lately too, and no other casters have improved imho in the same way. I like it.
Lastly, I have schoolwork to do today. A feature that would alert me just as certain matches began would be super helpful.
JPs casting is awful. please for $20 get us some good casters. Im not the biggest beta caster fan but im at least ok with them.
And please fix the streamlags for europe.
/e please please please fix this login shit. i have to login every time i switch a stream.
/e² i dont rly see a difference to a normal MLG event. Yes theres a better streamoverlay but what else? Its game after game with somewhat average casters, rooms that dont give u a 'high production' feeling, NO CROWD, still alot of waiting time.
4 streams is a bad thing too. for $20 i wanna have game after game. Just like GSL does it. VODs take forever.
Again its just like an normal MLG event without crowd.
/e³ i like player casting but its MVP VS GANZI and its getting casted by 2 shy and quiet players. At least make sure that one of them is entertaining.
On February 26 2012 06:09 Natespank wrote: I appreciate that you created this thread. Thank you.
The stream lags. I have to run it at 320p. It's not my computer, as I can download 1.5Mb/s right now and load any other stream just fine. You guys need to double your bandwidth- not just increase it 10% or 20%, but double it. No, it's not torrents or other downloads or a firewall, it's only the MLG stream, everything else is fine It's been like this for MLG streams for a while now.
1.5 Mb/s is like nothing.... Most other streams like GSL or anything else downgrade their bitrate but it's still not full quality. More bandwidth won't help you if your internet can't support it to begin with.
On February 26 2012 06:13 archonOOid wrote: why are the amazing duo dumbing down there "act" at the winter arena? In the GSL they are catering the hardcore sc2 a bit more i think.
I know you want to show all of the battle but in 9/10 instances, the battle is small enough to fit in one screen. Rotating, especially going from rotated left all the way to rotated right, bothers a lot of viewers. It's harder to follow.
On February 26 2012 06:50 Jibba wrote: Robin, rotating the camera does not help.
I know you want to show all of the battle but in 9/10 instances, the battle is small enough to fit in one screen. Rotating, especially going from rotated left all the way to rotated right, bothers a lot of viewers. It's harder to follow.
Its also nauseating to some people. I for one am. It is not a natural way for the brain to process visual information. Please get him to stop this.
Pro: Very high quality image, shows what HQ streams should look like. Bit laggy in europe even with 100mb connection however if watching fullscreen on one monitor and have quad up on the other to see what else is going to start, but that's not a huge problem I suppose.
Con: Tumba, why would you get him after his racist comments in that ONOG tournament? Biggest issue was the problems with VODs yesterday however, really felt I was getting ripped off at that point. Not sure if issue persists today though as I can watch it live this time.
On February 26 2012 06:55 Vond wrote: Pro: Very high quality image, shows what HQ streams should look like. Bit laggy in europe even with 100mb connection however if watching fullscreen on one monitor and have quad up on the other to see what else is going to start, but that's not a huge problem I suppose.
Con: Tumba, why would you get him after his racist comments in that ONOG tournament? Biggest issue was the problems with VODs yesterday however, really felt I was getting ripped off at that point. Not sure if issue persists today though as I can watch it live this time.
No lag for me over in Japan, of course I have 2GB FiOS.
On February 26 2012 06:16 CEPEHDREI wrote: JPs casting is awful. please for $20 get us some good casters. Im not the biggest beta caster fan but im at least ok with them.
And please fix the streamlags for europe.
/e please please please fix this login shit. i have to login every time i switch a stream.
/e² i dont rly see a difference to a normal MLG event. Yes theres a better streamoverlay but what else? Its game after game with somewhat average casters, rooms that dont give u a 'high production' feeling, NO CROWD, still alot of waiting time.
4 streams is a bad thing too. for $20 i wanna have game after game. Just like GSL does it. VODs take forever.
Again its just like an normal MLG event without crowd.
you have to login every switch? and you payed for it? and you dont have to to watch for free? GG MLG i dont even know if this is this the right place, but if you guys can fix the time for euros, i will probably buy the next arena. production value seems better than i had expected.
On February 26 2012 06:16 CEPEHDREI wrote: JPs casting is awful. please for $20 get us some good casters. Im not the biggest beta caster fan but im at least ok with them.
And please fix the streamlags for europe.
/e please please please fix this login shit. i have to login every time i switch a stream.
/e² i dont rly see a difference to a normal MLG event. Yes theres a better streamoverlay but what else? Its game after game with somewhat average casters, rooms that dont give u a 'high production' feeling, NO CROWD, still alot of waiting time.
4 streams is a bad thing too. for $20 i wanna have game after game. Just like GSL does it. VODs take forever.
Again its just like an normal MLG event without crowd.
/e³ i like player casting but its MVP VS GANZI and its getting casted by 2 shy and quiet players. At least make sure that one of them is entertaining.
The only caster that I think MLG is missing is Day9. I'd like to see Idra cast as well but I'm biased
On February 26 2012 06:50 Jibba wrote: Robin, rotating the camera does not help.
I know you want to show all of the battle but in 9/10 instances, the battle is small enough to fit in one screen. Rotating, especially going from rotated left all the way to rotated right, bothers a lot of viewers. It's harder to follow.
Its also nauseating to some people. I for one am. It is not a natural way for the brain to process visual information. Please get him to stop this.
I came in here to say just that. I stopped watching Sheth vs Nani because it really bothered me (and there were other games to watch too)
One thing I would like to see changed is the same two casters on the same stream throughout the entire event. Switching up the casters after every set is a little annoying.
On February 26 2012 06:50 Jibba wrote: Robin, rotating the camera does not help.
I know you want to show all of the battle but in 9/10 instances, the battle is small enough to fit in one screen. Rotating, especially going from rotated left all the way to rotated right, bothers a lot of viewers. It's harder to follow.
Its also nauseating to some people. I for one am. It is not a natural way for the brain to process visual information. Please get him to stop this.
I came in here to say just that. I stopped watching Sheth vs Nani because it really bothered me (and there were other games to watch too)
On February 26 2012 07:16 Eshra wrote: 240p and lagging like hell. Is it on my side ?
maybe but twitch is bit shacky today, some have lag on low resolution some on high ... try around and restart the stream on different ones. Good chance on it fixing itself.
Getting asked to login to each stream periodically again. No where near as bad as last night though. Otherwise no lag for me, other then the occasional hiccup but nothing pervasive.
Making it pay per view is a bit of a false economy IMO. Personally I don't mind paying to watch Starcraft but you isolate yourself from new fans and it'll hurt SC2's popularity in the long run IMO.
Try clearing your cachee, restarting your browser, and making sure you're logged out of twitch/justin before loading the MLG page. We're not seeing anywhere near the same number of reports as we did yesterday.
Please let me know if this helps or if the issue is still present. I'd love to be able to get this thing fixed for the small number of you experiencing it.
the stream often freezes while audio continues, even on lower qualities
the dr pepper 'ultimate access' stream has been a joke 90% of the time.
while the casting hasnt been bad, the problem is it doesnt match the 'level' of your event. as a ppv event, this isnt the place for second tier casting combos. perhaps you should of put the less experienced people on the free stream.
the player doesnt have a toolbar come up while on fullscreen. the detault justin.tv player brings up control options along the bottom when you move your mouse around, this means you dont have to leave full screen to adjust quality or volume.
when you do get the log in problem, you cant type while in full screen even though the message appears, this is both stupid and confusing. you have to exit fullscreen to relog in.
you could have another extra stream that is just a slideshow of the schedule and results and the bracket. this would work well with the splitscreen and multiview setups you have, and would just be an overall nice improvement. you have the 'arena info' button, but that is mostly external links and and stuff, just needlessly clunky.
still massive stream lag problems with 1080p in general.
you have the mainstage production area which looks slick and proffesional, with the casters in suits, but your 2 other casting areas, which appear to be closets with a pair of posters and chairs look out of place with people dressed in suits. maybe they could be more 'casual' experiences, it seems more natural to have a more casual experience, with casters dressed in a casual way, if they are just gonna huddle in a room. like artosis said 'i like this, its like being in my room'.
i really enjoyed the double casters on the mainstage, cutting across to 2 other people to give post game analysis is great, unfortunately, this isnt the place to stick catz. hes a good player and a nice guy, but hes hardly the analytical kinda guy. stick him in the casual rooms like you did latter, keep artosis there. perhaps consider devoting 2 streams to the main stage games. so the viewer can watch the casual friendly, more 'tv show' experience of the main caster pair, or choose to have the more analysis heavy secondary audio. hell, yesterday nony was doing this for you FOR FREE. he even announced he was going to do this ahead of time and is known to be a smart guy, why didnt you get him instead of catz?
edit: i take the 1080p comment back, i restarted my pc and ive had it on 1080p for like 10 minutes now with 0 problems, but i am scared to view second streams incase i bring back the fail ;/
On February 10 2012 06:22 Ingebrigtsen wrote: I really liked the part were the broadcast was on when all the europeans were sleeping
This.
well... you guys had ROG and I missed a lot of it because I'm in America and stay up for GSL and ROG happens to be morning for my time zone. You can't watch everything live.
On February 26 2012 09:09 Holdinga wrote: What is a good place I can see at what time and at what stream matches will be broadcasted? some sort of schedule ?
bottom left of the stream, you should see a tab that says "Schedule", it has everything you want
On February 26 2012 09:09 Holdinga wrote: What is a good place I can see at what time and at what stream matches will be broadcasted? some sort of schedule ?
bottom left of the stream, you should see a tab that says "Schedule", it has everything you want
Lol thx cant believe i missed that. But anyways it would have been cool if this schedule was implemented in the team liquid coverage for example
Here is my experience so far. This is the first PPV I have ever paid for. I've actually only gotten into Starcraft in the past two months, but wanted to support eSports and thought this was a reasonable price.
Overall I have been very happy with the production and content side of things. Easily worth the $20 price tag.
Unfortunately the technical side of things has been incredibly frustrating. I've probably spend 75% of the time trying to watch games instead of actually watching games.
The main issue has been lag. Like others, my speed test shows fine speeds (20 Mbps). I can stream other channels or sources fine. But MLG stutters and lags.
I also found I can't play the video using the majorleaguegaming.com/live player without FPS issues (even the solo view). I have to use the twitch.tv player instead.
I also can't watch on mlg/live because of the constant requests to log in.
Overall I will question purchasing something like this next time just due to the stress and frustration I've had trying to watch, which is too bad, because that remaining 25% of actually watching games has been great.
On February 26 2012 10:56 Jibba wrote: Seriously, stop all the zoom ins and camera rotations. :|
They're all worse for the viewer.
i thought some of the zoom ins were cool :D but not a single rotation so far has been to actually reveal a new angle (no pun intended) to the fight, just to be a bit of a tit with the camera.
On February 26 2012 10:56 Jibba wrote: Seriously, stop all the zoom ins and camera rotations. :|
They're all worse for the viewer.
i thought some of the zoom ins were cool :D but not a single rotation so far has been to actually reveal a new angle (no pun intended) to the fight, just to be a bit of a tit with the camera.
Some of the zooms have been during small battles, so you're literally missing what's going on in half of the fight.
My experience with the streams so far have been quite good, 1080/360x3 using the quad layout without any hiccups at all. Something I feel like is missing is the ability to hide all of the UI elements without making a specific stream go full screen - I'm using Chrome's full screen mode (F11) and it looks great except for the presence of the MLG header and footer.
I've solved this for myself by making a (toggle-able) bookmarklet:
If you aren't familiar with bookmarklets, just copy-paste the code above into the URL field for a new bookmark. Works great for chrome, a little too lazy to test for other browsers.
On February 26 2012 11:27 ODKStevez wrote: Only thing I have to say is that the Broadcast is at a very awkward time for the EU, weekend or not.
but presumably very convenient for New York City. You know, where it's being held?
edit: my feedback. i think the event has been run very well. it has been non-stop games all day, both days so far. I've had periods of time where the strem lags pretty hard, but that isn't specific to this tournament in my experience; i often have intermittent probs with twitch streams. keep it up! great games so far.
I would like to see better casters next time around. Having 4 b-team casters is unacceptable for $20. Rob Simpson, Robin, Tumba, and the dude casting with Tumba are hard to watch. Lots of "Uh's" and not a lot of insight. I would seriously rather watch eliminated players cast than those guys.
edit: Wrong predictions every 10 seconds in the early game on the Tumba steam. Just lame, on the whole.
On February 26 2012 11:23 dacimvrl wrote: 6 words for the casters:
STOP ZOOMING IN FOR NO REASON......
It's so pointless, why watch 3 units when you can see the big picture..of how player A is resupplying or how player B is planning a surround....
oh wait, that makes too much sense, right?
I think Tasteless got super excited about zooming in after it was so cool when it was a single zealot/stalker vs. a bunch of lings, and then just overdid it after that.
I got really pissed when he was zooming in on a fight during one of the Naniwa/Nestea games and I couldn't see the health of the 3rd which I knew zealots were attacking, it's not like it ruined the game but it was unnecessary and annoying.
All the streams, except for number 2, are blacked out...
I think that's because they're done.
I would like to see better casters next time around. Having 4 b-team casters is unacceptable for $20. Rob Simpson, Robin, Tumba, and the dude casting with Tumba are hard to watch. Lots of "Uh's" and not a lot of insight. I would seriously rather watch eliminated players cast than those guys.
I also have to kind of agree with this, besides that I actually like Rob Simpson.
The production looked great. Until I was reminded I needed 20 bucks for the stream. Doesn't really matter how pretty the guy trying to rob me is. Off to watch streams not hampered by such blatant Smaug-ery.
I want all MLG events to be like this from now on. Live crowds are overrated. Production and casting of this events are great. Non-stop awesome games with some interviews for $20?---yes please, KEEP DOING WHAT UR DOING
This has by far been the best PPV I have ever bought. WWE/F UFC included. I have been invested in nearly all the games! and I really like that there is some cheese mixed it even when it turns into macro games afterwards. Really great all around. The casting has been solid and hilarious and I am hoping tomorrow we are going to see more hatcheries.
On February 26 2012 12:21 Aeceus wrote: This has by far been the best PPV I have ever bought. WWE/F UFC included. I have been invested in nearly all the games! and I really like that there is some cheese mixed it even when it turns into macro games afterwards. Really great all around. The casting has been solid and hilarious and I am hoping tomorrow we are going to see more hatcheries.
For MLG Winter Arena, Robin's constant camera rotations are really annoying. It's so odd to see the perspective different. It makes it very distracting to try and reorient what is going on in a battle.
Also for the quad view or any other multi view like trio, it would be nice if there was a tab that let you know what players are playing on which streams. When I'm running the quad view with 4 games playing, its hard to keep track of whats going on and who's playing which match.
On the plus side, I really love the constant changing of casters between streams and even the guest casters like Grubby, Catz, and Drewbie. It keeps the casters rested and relaxed which seems to result in constant fresh and fun casting.
The sad thing with these sort of threads is the haters come out in force and the people who were happy don't say much.
I have really enjoyed all the coverage even being from the UK. 1080p Stream and multi stream access has been great, all the casters seemed ok. I didn't enjoy Sjow and Drewbies cast of MvP vs Ganzi but they were new to it all so I can forgive that.
If I was to give any ideas for future events;
- subscriber chat from the get go and moderators in abudance. - maybe a dedicated venue and small "intimate" crowd - slightly lower cost for overall tournament (though I don't feel like my 20$ was wasted on this event). - super fast vod uploads for the fact no event can cater for all timezones. - expert panel with players and other play by play casters (like with catz in this event) - a support section that does not lead to a deadlink, maybe a ticket system set-up with twitch tv - some community/mlg observer staff for games.
Thats it really, from what I saw 99% of the audience have enjoyed this event and problems were at a minimum and were fixed quickly.
On a side note, I don`t think I will pay for this again because I already know my friends and some people on the forums being able to bypass and be able to watch for free.
Not a huge fan of the beta stream casters... I dunno but I feel like if you don't have the game knowledge of artosis, you shouldn't try to be artosis. The beta casters all fall into the same rhythm of trying to predict what's going to happen next while remarking on who is ahead and who is not etc - but they're just not as good at it as artosis, and they frequently make mistakes. The best is when the players cast, because at least then you get genuine insight, even if they lack energy.
I feel bad criticizing them because they seem like swell people, but they seem like fans of the game that cast it, not experts at casting or experts at analysis.
On February 26 2012 11:37 GatorGar wrote: I would like to see better casters next time around. Having 4 b-team casters is unacceptable for $20. Rob Simpson, Robin, Tumba, and the dude casting with Tumba are hard to watch. Lots of "Uh's" and not a lot of insight. I would seriously rather watch eliminated players cast than those guys.
edit: Wrong predictions every 10 seconds in the early game on the Tumba steam. Just lame, on the whole.
Out of all of the points in the thread this is the one I agree with the most. Tumba's podcast is great and all but his insight into the game is not. It's personally not a problem for me hearing him spout off incorrect predictions, at least when he is talking about protoss, but for less involved and skilled players/spectators I could certainly see it being confusing.
As an example there were a few times when he would say that I protoss was in a bad spot at 120 supply vs a 140 supply zerg going mass roach. That's just bad casting as the protoss is most likely in a very advantageous position with that supply differential.
Robin's voice is irritating to me personally so I didn't listen to streams he was casting and can't really give an opinion on his casting.
Rob Simpson I find enjoyable to listen to as a caster, he usually has decent insight into the game, at least not making large mistakes, and plays well off of every other caster that I have seen him partnered up with.
Really, the point I'm trying to make here is this; When I am paying a fairly large fee for a broadcast, at least compared to the normal fee of nothing, I expect to be able to watch the match I want to watch, and I want that match to be casted by someone that knows his shit. A lot of the matches that I held interest in weren't casted by Tasteless/Artosis/Rob/JP/DJwheat, all of which I feel do at least an adequate job. When they were casted by one of the B-team casters it was still enjoyable to an extent, but I feel as though I shouldn't have to worry about the casting at all when I am paying for the broadcast.
Regardless it has been very enjoyable to watch and worth the money to me. Though to be honest that is not so much because I feel that MLG has done anything impressive or special for this event and more so that they have lucked out extremely hard and had extremely good games, a lot of which were upsets with foreigners coming out on top.
I will very likely buy the next MLG arena ticket even if it is also priced the same but I would hope that they can increase the quality of the presentation quite a bit. If they don't and the games played don't turn out to be as impressive as they are this time around, I might not be coming back again.
The last thing I want to say is this. This event does not seem better then the circuit events. I hope that is because it is the first one, and with the presumed success with this one the rest will be better. I hope the money poured into the event and I hope MLG pours that money right back into the next arena because currently, the price for this event compared to other similar events makes it seem very overpriced.
EDIT: OH YEAH! I forgot to mention how absolutely awesome it is when they toss a question to a pro player off camera about a game they just watched and get his insight into it. Or when they went through the replay with CatZ. Lots, lots, lots more of that in the future please. Artosis is great at what he does, but the pro players have a different way of seeing what is going on in a game much of the time, and it is amazing to hear their insight. Although CatZ has seemed a little awkward in this role I have a feeling he would grow into it very well and I would like to see him continue doing it at every MLG arena. This coming from someone that isn't even a CatZ fan. Just do it more, please :D.
I want to add on the caster complaints/praises that Adebisi is awesome and deserves more recognition, it sucked that he got paired with Tumba who is not so good. MLG would be better off bringing in someone like orb or whatever to cast, though I'm sure that the fact that Appolo, TB, Bitter, and Khaldor were all at Assembly messed with their ability to recruit top casting talent.
Um, I don't think I have anything new to add to this thread, just reiterating same thoughts:
- I don't feel like I'm getting my money's worth with B casters like Tumba (not enough game knowledge etc.). I could listen to him if he was hosting a weekly cup or something, but for 20$ PPV. Adebisi was great but Robin (was it?) had some crazy head gesturing going on. They are not main streams, but if this PPV boasts 80 hours of content, then the main stream should be just as good as C. The casters should not be deterring me from choosing the match I want to see.
-LOVED when the main stream would shoot it off to another duo sitting across the room to get further thoughts on the match. Although the first day, that corner looked unsightly but it looks like they fixed that tonight with proper lighting
- Quad view was great, I just wished there was a pause button on the streams to avoid having to remove a stream I'm not watching, but still be able to pop back in to check if another match started on that stream.
-extended series etc.
Overall I don't think it wasn't worth 20$; maybe 10$, 15$ is pushing it. Its just too expensive for an arena event, no matter how many streams/casters/tasteless quotes they're may be. To be honest, if the next arena is still 20$, I'll probably buy it again, but I'll feel as though MLG is abusing their hold on NA esports.
Tumba is just not a good caster, I'm not sure why MLG chose him for this event. Also, MLG should be super pissed off at twitch.tv, through various easy to execute exploits all their streams are being viewed for free. This should be an easy to see thing, subscribers vs. viewers??? The incompetence of twitch is hurting you MLG, either dump them or make it clear to them that this is not acceptable. I understand the russian and chinese restreams, you can't control those. But people viewing your streams through twitch for free due to their incompetence?
As for the event itself, it has been great, I pooled the $20 with 3 friends and next time I will probably just pay for it myself. The production has been stepped up a notch, and as a whole the casting has been great.
I managed to fix up my stream quality so its not as laggy and doesnt lag me out. That changed my opinion a lot. But I do only have one question, Why are the VoDs only available in 480p?
Edit: The VoDs also end during some big engagements and its hard to determine a winner...
The problem with all these caster complaints is that caster preference is ALWAYS going to be VERY subjective. Saying that "better casters" should be recruited if the price is going to be $20 is basically a pointless thing to say because not everybody's preference aligns with yours. Clearly there is a hefty amount of subjectivity involved if people are criticizing Tumba or any other caster for lack of game knowledge but not Tasteless. Literally 50-60% of what Tasteless says is wrong. I still love him but it's the truth. Whenever you hear Artosis go "mmm" it's because he knows what Tasteless just said was wrong but he's not going to argue with it lol.
Good idea to cast colored light on players, but it's too strong; it should be much lighter and allow for clearer vision of them.
Glad to see you prepared video content for players (Naniwa and Leenock). It should pay off to pick a few major players for each event and prepare such content in advance, then cast it before important match of theirs.
Please allow your interface to full screen one stream muted, while other(s) are unmuted without even being seen. I couldn't make it and had to use separate windows directly from Twitch instead.
Please allow for custom layout resizing of windows, if possible. Otherwise again it's better to use the streams directly from Twitch in separate windows, instead of your optional layouts.
Very important: as others mentioned, there should be some (adjustable) way for the system to alert you when some match is beginning on a stream, so you know to switch streams. Keeping all of them at all times is heavy for many computers or connections.
Highly appreciated that your system automatically adjusts the quality of streams based on chosen layout. That's very smart and saves a lot of time. It would be nice if further customizing of the according quality associations was possible. (I mean customizing the defaults per layout; obviously you can still manually adjust each window, but the defaults save time)
If at all possible, talking to pro players, watching replays with them, or the ultimate, having them comment on the game as it's going on (being a colour-commentator of sorts) is absurdly awesome. Tasteless and Artosis are very knowledgeable as far as casters go, but when someone like IdrA is talking, you can almost literally feel the difference.
Add me in to the crowd that doesn't like the b casters.
Quite unfortunate that all the streams are viewable for free. $20 is a significant amount of money to almost completely throw away.
Other than that, this tournament's been absolutely amazing so far. Incredible roster, great maps, great games.
I have reasonable net ~12 down ~1up from Australia, and I'm having problems with the vods.. absolutely unwatchable freezes every 0.5 seconds and a 5 minute buffer gives me 20 seconds of footage almost.
On February 26 2012 14:25 Doodsmack wrote: The problem with all these caster complaints is that caster preference is ALWAYS going to be VERY subjective. Saying that "better casters" should be recruited if the price is going to be $20 is basically a pointless thing to say because not everybody's preference aligns with yours. Clearly there is a hefty amount of subjectivity involved if people are criticizing Tumba or any other caster for lack of game knowledge but not Tasteless. Literally 50-60% of what Tasteless says is wrong. I still love him but it's the truth. Whenever you hear Artosis go "mmm" it's because he knows what Tasteless just said was wrong but he's not going to argue with it lol.
I agree by i think Tasteless makes up for it by being a great co-caster, having a good strong voice and quite often being funny.
I wasnt going to pay for this ppv but after hearing good things and coming off the high of polt vs stephano i decided to pay watch what i can live and watch what i miss on the Vods, but alot of the round 1 vods cut out before the match has even finished... Please sort this out, im not one to nit pick over minor problems but im pretty pissed off about this since im mostly paying for the vods due to the time of the live cast.
On February 26 2012 14:25 Doodsmack wrote: The problem with all these caster complaints is that caster preference is ALWAYS going to be VERY subjective. Saying that "better casters" should be recruited if the price is going to be $20 is basically a pointless thing to say because not everybody's preference aligns with yours. Clearly there is a hefty amount of subjectivity involved if people are criticizing Tumba or any other caster for lack of game knowledge but not Tasteless. Literally 50-60% of what Tasteless says is wrong. I still love him but it's the truth. Whenever you hear Artosis go "mmm" it's because he knows what Tasteless just said was wrong but he's not going to argue with it lol.
I don't think it's so much a matter of being "wrong". Tasteless was a very good player at one time remember. He just sucks at explaining himself. Artosis has this great ability to articulate complicated concepts. For me he's the real standout in the Starcraft casting world. He's as good as any sports caster on the BBC, ESPN etc...
I echo what people are saying. I really liked it when after a match they opened it out to the other analysts; that was a really cool and professional thing to do. But the quality of the casters make a HUGE difference to the overall quality of the production. When you have someone like Tasteless going ummm, urrr, *pause*, uhh it's just not very good and ruins the flow. God bless the guy but he isn't a natural caster, he's been thrown into an environment that doesn't suit him. If they want to charge proper PPV money, they need PPV quality analysis and casting that compares with other sports. It was lacking in my opinion.
- big lag from twitch i think. I had to watch in 480 though I can watch 1080p on other streams without a problem - some of the vods have the end cut off - the white rooms and the close web cams that make the casters almost hug gives such a small production value feel - the in between discussions seem forced some times, because the second pair of people don't seem really interested and usually have nothing to say - the player cams have no ambient light and their body is just a silhouette and looks like a image from a "guess the player" card. I like the red vs blue theme - not too many interviews and random interesting discussions and activities - the dr.pepper stream is like a big brother camera where nothing happens. Just showing players looking bored gives a bad feel - people can watch it for free without even trying to hack it. PPV has one flaw that can make it not work.. That one. - no restream option besides the vods split by matches - no interviews uploads to see them next day
On February 26 2012 14:22 Canti_the_Angel wrote: I managed to fix up my stream quality so its not as laggy and doesnt lag me out. That changed my opinion a lot. But I do only have one question, Why are the VoDs only available in 480p?
Edit: The VoDs also end during some big engagements and its hard to determine a winner...
For me there's a quality-option with the VoDs that has 480p and "Best". The latter seems to be a fairly crisp 1080p.
I have reasonable net ~12 down ~1up from Australia, and I'm having problems with the vods.. absolutely unwatchable freezes every 0.5 seconds and a 5 minute buffer gives me 20 seconds of footage almost.
Is anyone else struggling with the vods?
Same, the vods unwatchable for me and there is no quality option.
I don't think Rob Simpson should be casting on free streams from big events, let alone a paid stream from a big event. He doesn't provide any insight into the game and when he tries to make any kind of analytical comment it's usually wrong or absolutely trivial, and unlike TB he doesn't make up for it in other areas.
What is he even doing casting at events? Are all the other casters friends with him? Does Blizzard want him there? Sure, he's comfortable in front of a camera and I'm sure some people find him funny, but if that's all you want then go hire a comedian.
+ ingame video quality + options is really good + multifeed options + lineup + casting archon + votings for winning predictions via twitter+phone + interviews + filler content was ok + good schedule with no real problems and downtimes + with dailight the room with the nice panoramic view over the city was awesome
room to improve :
big :
- need ingame director, look at st_legend from gsl - extended series needs to go - the one stream with the webcam was not really good, webcam framerate was choppy and the cam tried to refocus every few seconds.
minor :
- player intros + stats, look at gsl again - more announcements after games which games are on on other streams - pricing was a bit high but acceptable for a start (10-15 will be an instantbuy for me in the future) - vod upload sometimes delayed - in the night the room with the panoramic room gave reflections from bots screens in the window, cheating possiblities? (im not saying anyone did that) - pre and postgame interviews needs to be put into the vods (maybe an automatic system for the future?) - when a stream has downtime put in some "can footage", highlite reels form players involved in the upcoming game come into mind. - the overall "look and feel" was a bit more homestory cup than bigtime production
I have never liked Tasteless but I must say that his observing is incredibly bad. No production tab, not showing events on te map and what's with the damn zoom? I just hate that sort of bullshit. I'm resorting to listening Artosis and watching the minimap and I see this big red blob attacking the big blue blob... While Tasteless isn't moving the camera and thinking about the automaton? Seriously?
"Tasteless almost dropped the ball again". Indeed you did.
On February 26 2012 22:54 Amornthep wrote: VODs really need quality options, I'm unable to stream smoothly at max without spiking. Other than that, I've got no complaints.
Twitchtv team are on it
On February 26 2012 20:27 Grend wrote: For some reason I can watch it for free. Good job twitch :-)
Twitchtv's pay wall is an utter failure, and their servers around the world aren't as stable. MLG should have stuck with there main stream provider Streamworks.
On February 10 2012 06:22 Ingebrigtsen wrote: I really liked the part were the broadcast was on when all the europeans were sleeping
qft, I could watch the first few hours because I was learning for my exams late night. And btw. thanks for the free stream, I think it was a bug from your side, but thanks ^.^
Production-wise, this looks fantastic. SC2 on a highrise, I thought I'd never see. Game-wise, what'd you expect? 10/10, it's like GSL for America, which is awesome because it's in American time... haha
I posted this in a different thread, but realized that it really should have gone here so I'll copy&paste:
Some really good games at MLG. My review of the event thus far . . .
Player Linup: 10/10
Quality of Games Played: 9/10
Overall production value: 6/10
Will I buy this kind of pass again? Probably not. I enjoyed it, but it was definitely not a high-production event (not as nice as GSL), and no where close to the quality of any of the previous MLG's bar the very first (which flopped). Not having the crowd or an audience, and not having any space for even press etc . . . this was a 'Homestory Cup' with good players but without the comfortable atmosphere.
So overall, great Starcraft play from great players, enjoyed the games and the casters, but not worth being PPV in the future.
I feel like I'm watching replays that are months old with many of the casters.... I just don't really think many of them are entertaining. Is it just me?
On February 26 2012 22:41 LawnMower wrote: I have never liked Tasteless but I must say that his observing is incredibly bad. No production tab, not showing events on te map and what's with the damn zoom? I just hate that sort of bullshit. I'm resorting to listening Artosis and watching the minimap and I see this big red blob attacking the big blue blob... While Tasteless isn't moving the camera and thinking about the automaton? Seriously?
"Tasteless almost dropped the ball again". Indeed you did.
I don't think they should be asking him to do that. In the GSL, which is the casting he does most consistently, they have a dedicated observer. On top of that they're both jet lagged and flew in for the event from Korea on Friday. That's pretty rough. I imagine it'd be hard to cast like that, let alone multitask observing, casting, and being charming/witty.
Can't watch the stream at 720p or 1080p, 480p is quite laggy too. I'm on 100/100 Mbit which i've tested to NYC servers with good latency, no jitter, nor any packet loss. I'm glad i didn't pay, i just tuned in to see if they had fixed their PPV system but they hadn't.
I love all of the casters here. If I had to pick one, though, that I didn't like listening to a lot, that would be Robin just because he speaks way too fast for his tongue to handle and can make it extremely hard to understand him at times. As for everyone else, great job. The split-screen method of broadcasting is beautiful, as well as the ability to just listen to the audio for certain streams is just so nice. I'm able to listen to interviews and such without taking my eyes off of the game. Also, with the cool format, you can tune in and out of games as the action is going on, giving you basically non-stop action while games are simultaneously played.
Will I pay again to watch MLG events? Definitely. Watching all of these amazing matches live (notably Idra vs. Nestea, DRG vs. Parting, and Nestea vs. Demuslim) was absolutely worth the $20. People say that you should just wait for the VOD's, but you miss out on all of the in-between interviews as well as the caster analysis pre-game as well as post game. The insight alone is very helpful as well and is definitely beneficial towards my game.
All in all, this was a $20 well spent. Thanks, MLG, for providing such entertaining content and a reasonable price!
I love the quality of play, the production, the multiple streams, the game discussion after the games, the interviews... BUT I will definately not buy a ticket again if this twitch mess repeats. I'm trying to watch Oz vs DRG right now and we are nearing the finals, and it is not watchable for me even on lower qualities due to server lag on Twitch's side. (It's not my rig or internet connection, it normally can handle two streams at 1080p without problem).
On February 26 2012 22:41 LawnMower wrote: I have never liked Tasteless but I must say that his observing is incredibly bad. No production tab, not showing events on te map
If you watched BW at all, you'd understand why this is superior.
On February 26 2012 22:41 LawnMower wrote: I have never liked Tasteless but I must say that his observing is incredibly bad. No production tab, not showing events on te map
If you watched BW at all, you'd understand why this is superior.
oh look guys, we have another cocksucker elitist over here, that makes vague statements without actually saying anything specific to make himself feel superior. gratz man this must take a lot of skill to do; probably almost as much as is required to play the game of gods that is bw.
MLG Feedback ? Have Justin/Twitch improve their Europe connection. I'm not paying for this to watch slideshows in 360p in 1/2 the games when there's action going on. It's been going on for AGES.
Not having an audience/crowd in the background definitely takes away an excitement factor that was present in Providence. I am having occasional lag issues which I don't believe they are related to my computer or internet connection. The lag occurs even at the lowest quality stream which is rather annoying, especially during big battles. I keep getting logged out too occasionally when I switch streams.
For some reason the casters not using the 'Name Panel' setting was driving me bonkers. The MLG overlay covers up the standard one but I like having the supply count showing up underneath it rather then having to look to the top right corner all the time.
Aside from the lag and login issues, my only real complaint was the zooming and spinning cameras. I couldn't even watch one of the matches Robin was casting because he was doing it so much. The white rooms used for the beta streams looked like they were casting from someones bedrooms. Didn't really have a professional feel.
Some of the matches have been pretty good but I don't feel that I got my $20 worth. I enjoyed watching the tournament in Providence a few months ago far more.
So I paid 20$ and stream has been crap for most of the time. Stream is so laggy even at lowest quality. I feel totally ripped off and wont be supporting MLG in the future for sure.
Awesome weekend. Hope they drop the price to 10-15$. Only thing i didnt like was Rob Simpson's casting. Other than that sick line up sick games and Im glad i bought PPV pass.
My complaint for the PPV event, would be the lag issues. I really feel that I have been cheated for my money, and I will not buy anything involving Justin/Twitch ever again. And I don't think that Rob Simpson should be a caster.
honestly, in theory this was an awesome event. in practice however its been laggy, and the vod system is just plain terrible. the vods have at times been incomplete, games missing, some inexplicably split into several parts and all of them miss the pre game banter and the post game analysis. its just so sloppy and dissapointing.
i have a job so cant sit up til 4 am (im in europe) because my monday would be horrible. so thought i would catch up with the vods instead (flipping back and forth between the mlg page and twitch which is basically a retarded system) but matches got spoiled because when one video ended the list of videos that came up showed who went on to the next round already.. things like that.. its just like.. wtf did i just pay for..
I really like what I'm seeing for this match - we had a great match with Huk vs. MKP, and after the match we had tasteless and artosis give some input and extra analysis on top of what was said during the game. It's extremely helpful to hear the thoughts of these casters in not only great detail, but such a calm and collected fashion. Not saying I don't like their casting, but it's nice to just hear it in a conversational tone where they can say things they're often forced to skip.
I have not been having lag problems and I have only 5mb down and have been watching on 480. I don't understand how people re having lag problems, if you have better internet than me it just doesn't make sense, and if you have slower internet than me then you probably shouldn't be expecting so much.
maybe people think they would be able to run all 4 streams at a higher rate than they actually can so they just bitch about it that way.... idk either way they are wrong about it being MLGs fault.
On February 26 2012 22:41 LawnMower wrote: I have never liked Tasteless but I must say that his observing is incredibly bad. No production tab, not showing events on te map
If you watched BW at all, you'd understand why this is superior.
oh look guys, we have another cocksucker elitist over here, that makes vague statements without actually saying anything specific to make himself feel superior. gratz man this must take a lot of skill to do; probably almost as much as is required to play the game of gods that is bw.
As far as the lag issues go: Personally, I can't watch 720p or 1080p, but 480p is smooth as a baby's ass, and it is actually very high quality. It's higher than gsl's high quality, so I can't really complain about that. If you are having trouble watching 480p then your internet is probably not sufficiently fast to view it smoothly, or the routing to your part of the world may be bad. As far as 720p and higher, I'm not really sure if its laggy because of the MLG's upload rate or if it's on my own end. Either way, it doesn't matter because 480p is very nice.
So to state my point clearly, if you are having trouble with lag, turn your quality down to 480p and enjoy. 360p doesn't look too bad either. It is NOT MLG's fault if you are lagging on 480p or lower.
The one thing that I would like is a countdown timer, a lot of the time the schedule wasn't up to date (as well as timezone differences). Just a simple "xx minutes until broadcast".
Also every time I come back to the page the volume goes back down to 20%, may be cache related similar to the login issue.
On February 27 2012 07:47 MichaelDonovan wrote: As far as the lag issues go: Personally, I can't watch 720p or 1080p, but 480p is smooth as a baby's ass, and it is actually very high quality. It's higher than gsl's high quality, so I can't really complain about that. If you are having trouble watching 480p then your internet is probably not sufficiently fast to view it smoothly, or the routing to your part of the world may be bad. As far as 720p and higher, I'm not really sure if its laggy because of the MLG's upload rate or if it's on my own end. Either way, it doesn't matter because 480p is very nice.
So to state my point clearly, if you are having trouble with lag, turn your quality down to 480p and enjoy. 360p doesn't look too bad either. It is NOT MLG's fault if you are lagging on 480p or lower.
You seem to be easily pleased. 720p or 1080p are *much* nicer than 480p (even though it beats out GSL, but GSL has crap quality anyway).
It's just that TwitchTV has crappy routing in Europe, which causes lag at anything higher than 480p. And while this is not directly MLGs fault, they did choose to use TwitchTV as their streaming partner, so they're not completely free of blame either. Whatever MLG used last year worked much better.
I'm watching a restream for the finals (was pretty disappointed with the ppv system and so these are the only games that remotely interest me, not to mention timezone complications), so I will not comment on the stream quality. The last few MLGs I watched in HQ and the picture and audio quality was ok, I assume this is the case now too. What I notice from the few games I have seen so far however is that I realy realy miss the crowd reactions. This feels like some random online cup. So for the next events: - maybe lower the price and/or offer a LQ single freestream. - bring audience back - if you stick to ppv only offer a cheaper ticket that only lets you watch on the final day OR just for VODs - dedicated observers
This is my first day watching it, but Ill weigh in. honestly the presentation just feels really dry to me. I dunno what it is, but it just doesnt capture my attention the way the other events have. Im probably just missing the audience
Not sure if this will help anyone else, but for me it's fixed the lag. I'm on terrible hotel internet right now and for whatever reason, the normal video player was really laggy. I switched to the single stream on Twitch.tv and it's running smoothly now.
On February 27 2012 08:47 AstronautMikeDexter wrote: The final is unwatchable for me in 720 or 1080p in EU because of lag. Any other Europeans getting this?
Yes, i have sound but i am watching a slide show........(been like this alot of the night tho)
On February 27 2012 08:47 AstronautMikeDexter wrote: The final is unwatchable for me in 720 or 1080p in EU because of lag. Any other Europeans getting this?
On February 27 2012 07:50 lottopk wrote: 1080p lags for eu...AGAIN. 10/1 , all other streams on tl working perfectly.
This, even 720p is lagging bad for me tonight. It's fine most of the time, then all of a sudden (always in an important fight aswell ofc) it just freezes for 10-15secs. This + the fact that lots of people who didn't pay have been able to watch anyway makes me feel bad about paying $20. The quality of the tournament itself has been amazing though, but lag that makes you miss the important part of the games is just a huge issue. :/
Also, bo3 that can turn into a bo7 in the finals is bad, very bad. Bo5 that can turn into Bo9 would be nice, but this basicly means that the finals can be a quick 2-0 which is very anticlimactic.
Did I not write here every MLG politely asking you to double the bandwidth? I can't even watch this. I won't be buying a pass for the next one or until I find out you guys finally deal with this every single MLG
I'll hesitate paying for another MLG Arena unless they fix their lag issues. Seems pretty crappy to me that I have to pay $20 for this and I can't even watch the finals without lag.
On February 27 2012 07:54 Gr33d wrote: I'm watching a restream for the finals (was pretty disappointed with the ppv system and so these are the only games that remotely interest me, not to mention timezone complications), so I will not comment on the stream quality. The last few MLGs I watched in HQ and the picture and audio quality was ok, I assume this is the case now too. What I notice from the few games I have seen so far however is that I realy realy miss the crowd reactions. This feels like some random online cup. So for the next events: - maybe lower the price and/or offer a LQ single freestream. - bring audience back - if you stick to ppv only offer a cheaper ticket that only lets you watch on the final day OR just for VODs - dedicated observers
I think some of these ideas are pretty good.
I bought it, but would have preferred a cheaper ticket (maybe $10-$15 for ticket and $5 off or so for gold members?). I don't agree with the bring audience back however, they already have four big events for this, and I think the idea of the arena is to be in a kind of controlled, intimate environment. I think having a cheaper ticket for final day is a nice direction. Make the ticket progressively cheaper each day, because once you miss one day or so, you might get turned off from purchasing the ticket for full price.
On another note, I'm not really getting lag on 720, maybe a two second freeze every half hour or so.
On February 27 2012 07:54 Gr33d wrote: I'm watching a restream for the finals (was pretty disappointed with the ppv system and so these are the only games that remotely interest me, not to mention timezone complications), so I will not comment on the stream quality. The last few MLGs I watched in HQ and the picture and audio quality was ok, I assume this is the case now too. What I notice from the few games I have seen so far however is that I realy realy miss the crowd reactions. This feels like some random online cup. So for the next events: - maybe lower the price and/or offer a LQ single freestream. - bring audience back - if you stick to ppv only offer a cheaper ticket that only lets you watch on the final day OR just for VODs - dedicated observers
I think some of these ideas are pretty good.
I bought it, but would have preferred a cheaper ticket (maybe $10-$15 for ticket and $5 off or so for gold members?). I don't agree with the bring audience back however, they already have four big events for this, and I think the idea of the arena is to be in a kind of controlled, intimate environment. I think having a cheaper ticket for final day is a nice direction. Make the ticket progressively cheaper each day, because once you miss one day or so, you might get turned off from purchasing the ticket for full price.
On another note, I'm not really getting lag on 720, maybe a two second freeze every half hour or so.
Yeah, I definitely a agree with the progressively cheaper each day thing. Since it kind of sucks for barcraft hosts to pay full price for only a few games.
$20 is too high. I'd be fine with $10, but even $15 is too much for just one weekend. Compare the number of games we get to the number of games the GSL offers for $20. Not even close, plus the GSL has better competition. And best of 3s all the way through the competition? That's just a bad idea. The end of the tournament is when the best matches are played, so give us more of them!
FIll the downtime between games better. The Dr. Pepper stream is a great idea, the interviews are good and everything, but too many times there was absolutely nothing going on on any of the streams, while at other times there were interviews going on at the same time as matches were going on. Interview coaches or other non-player personalities if the players are busy. Show highlight reels, even from old MLG competitions since you can't always prepare current highlight reels. Anything is better than nothing!
That being said, the streaming set up is sooooo good! I love the various layouts, the individual volume controls, the first person views, etc. It is awesome. By far the best live tournament viewing experience I have ever had
Casting is pretty good overall. Tasteless, Artosis, JP, djWheat, Tumba, Abeisis (or whatever his name is) are all pretty good! Rob is weird though... He keeps making weird faces toward the camera or other casters when he says something he thinks is cool, like he's Horatio Caine or something. Very bothersome.
Overall, I'm fine that I spent the money to support MLG, the players, and the scene. However, I will not pay this much again in the future simply because a weekend competition is not worth $20. GSL, even if it were the same number of games, is worth more than weekend competitions because the players prepare incredible strategies and bring their best to every match making for incredible games. Weekend tournaments just can't replicate this, and thus they will always be worth less to the viewer than long-term formats. Anyway, keep it up MLG! You guys are doing a great job, and we all appreciate what you do for the community
Wow this is garbage. Stream has been laggy as hell all weekend then in the finals game 3 in the middle of a huge battle the stream dies. Bravo MLG... Bravo.
Yesterday was okay... but today it is IMPOSSIBLE to watch it in 1080p... In my country 2mb conection its standard... I have 3mb, I can watch GSL vods with no problem, streams in 1080p with no problem. But now I can barely watch it in 360... and its not my fault because at the same moment I can close that stream and watch Youtube or GOMtv with no problems
On February 27 2012 09:18 nGBeast wrote: you people are jokes
why, when you do ppv and having an unwatchable finals is not acceptable
just because its PPV doesn't mean it wont have technical problems, the internet infrastructure is much much different compared to EU tournaments, people on the internet just like to whine and complain
edit: seems like they just found the bug that was letting people view for free (on twitch), haha freeloaders
I get that the streams may crash, that's not a big deal. However, I dealt with terrible lag and choppy video all weekend. I have frequently quad-viewed MLGs in the past with no issue, but now I can't even watch a single stream in 720p without major latency. Additionally, I had the issue, as many did I'm sure, where it was constantly asking me to reauthenticate myself to Twitch over and over and over again throughout the day.
For a free stream, I wouldn't care. For $20? I feel like I should not be having these issues.
On February 27 2012 09:18 nGBeast wrote: you people are jokes
why, when you do ppv and having an unwatchable finals is not acceptable
just because its PPV doesn't mean it wont have technical problems, the internet infrastructure is much much different compared to EU tournaments, people on the internet just like to whine and complain
If it's PPV however and this many people are having issues, they should do something about it. Take a break until they can sort things out, whatever.
On February 27 2012 09:18 nGBeast wrote: you people are jokes
why, when you do ppv and having an unwatchable finals is not acceptable
just because its PPV doesn't mean it wont have technical problems, the internet infrastructure is much much different compared to EU tournaments, people on the internet just like to whine and complain
edit: seems like they just found the bug that was letting people view for free (on twitch), haha freeloaders
When my cable company does PPV and the feed is screwed I get my money back.
this is the worst $20 bucks i've ever spent. Before when MLG events were free, streams were fine and the lag that we experienced can hardly be compared to what we have now. This whole event is full of frequent lag spikes, extremely choppy screens, and I never had a game with 5 minutes of smooth gameplay and commentary. For 20 bucks, this is an extremely poor decision that I've made, and I refuse to support MLG in any other way in the future.
On February 27 2012 09:18 nGBeast wrote: you people are jokes
why, when you do ppv and having an unwatchable finals is not acceptable
just because its PPV doesn't mean it wont have technical problems, the internet infrastructure is much much different compared to EU tournaments, people on the internet just like to whine and complain
If you collect payment , you provide quality. True not ? Have you seen gsl having problems like this ?
Edit: due to offline/lag I have no idea what happened in shakuras plateu.
On February 27 2012 09:21 Takkara wrote: I get that the streams may crash, that's not a big deal. However, I dealt with terrible lag and choppy video all weekend. I have frequently quad-viewed MLGs in the past with no issue, but now I can't even watch a single stream in 720p without major latency. Additionally, I had the issue, as many did I'm sure, where it was constantly asking me to reauthenticate myself to Twitch over and over and over again throughout the day.
For a free stream, I wouldn't care. For $20? I feel like I should not be having these issues.
It seems like you're the only who had that problem, otherwise people would have been complaining all weekend. MLG isn't responsible for solving every single person's latency problem. Did you contact MLG/your internet provider?
On February 27 2012 09:18 nGBeast wrote: you people are jokes
why, when you do ppv and having an unwatchable finals is not acceptable
just because its PPV doesn't mean it wont have technical problems, the internet infrastructure is much much different compared to EU tournaments, people on the internet just like to whine and complain
edit: seems like they just found the bug that was letting people view for free (on twitch), haha freeloaders
bug?
so lets punish viewers who paid while we try and stop people who have been watching all weekend so now no one can watch the last few games
Drop twitch.tv, they have very shitty bandwidth and can't handle the amount of viewers that MLG brings. Go back to streamworks, that at least could handle the numbers of mlg pro circuits. It shouldn't have a problem unlike twitch.
The MLG quality has been great, you guys seriously need to relax a little bit and fix the issues with your own computer, rather than complaining about problems other people aren't even having.
I feel my IQ dropping from reading all the ill-thought out posts in here, especially when people are blaming MLG for the stream lag when it isn't them handling the streaming x.X; People just need to take a step back, either cool down and post something which actually contributes or login to reddit, there are many like you there.
(To add: I got 1080p without any lag for the first two days with minor lag on 3rd day)
On February 27 2012 09:18 nGBeast wrote: its back up a 30 second downtime chill the fuck out
more like 9 minutes filled with lag
im watching in 1080p all 3 days with no to very minor lag, blame your ISP lowering your resolution if you can't handle it
Yeah sure, ALL of the people complaining about lags should just check their ISP. How stupid are you ?
I'm not a whiny little fuck when I don't get a clear 1080p, not my fault you can't handle 1080p. It's your ISP, obviously not all don't be so stupid, but it has to do with your bandwidth or computer. whiny self entitled teenagers seriously
On February 27 2012 09:24 goldenwitch wrote: The MLG quality has been great, you guys seriously need to relax a little bit and fix the issues with your own computer, rather than complaining about problems other people aren't even having.
On February 27 2012 09:18 nGBeast wrote: its back up a 30 second downtime chill the fuck out
more like 9 minutes filled with lag
im watching in 1080p all 3 days with no to very minor lag, blame your ISP lowering your resolution if you can't handle it
Yeah sure, ALL of the people complaining about lags should just check their ISP. How stupid are you ?
I'm not a whiny little fuck when I don't get a clear 1080p, not my fault you can't handle 1080p. It's your ISP, obviously not all don't be so stupid, but it has to do with your bandwidth
I'm watching in 240p and still lagging, idiot. I'd be happy to have just a clear 480p.
goldenwitch please don't be ignorant with your posts without understanding the actual problem. for myself i have 1.5 mb/sec connection so please don't talk about isp or connection without knowing shit
On February 27 2012 09:25 enecateReAP wrote: I feel my IQ dropping from reading all the ill-thought out posts in here, especially when people are blaming MLG for the stream lag when it isn't them handling the streaming x.X; People just need to take a step back, either cool down and post something which actually contributes or login to reddit, there are many like you there.
(To add: I got 1080p without any lag for the first two days with minor lag on 3rd day)
Was very happy with the broadcast personally.
Are you kidding me? MLG is 100% responsible for their stream and choosing who hosts for them.
On February 27 2012 09:18 nGBeast wrote: its back up a 30 second downtime chill the fuck out
more like 9 minutes filled with lag
im watching in 1080p all 3 days with no to very minor lag, blame your ISP lowering your resolution if you can't handle it
Yeah sure, ALL of the people complaining about lags should just check their ISP. How stupid are you ?
your both being stupid, none of you have engineering backgrounds so neither of you is qualified to say whos fault it is. you can say theres a problem so mlg/twitch can look in to it, but as soon as you start assigning blame and throwing around words like bandwidth or other words you once heard you just make yourself look like an uninformed idiot.
On February 27 2012 09:18 nGBeast wrote: you people are jokes
why, when you do ppv and having an unwatchable finals is not acceptable
just because its PPV doesn't mean it wont have technical problems, the internet infrastructure is much much different compared to EU tournaments, people on the internet just like to whine and complain
edit: seems like they just found the bug that was letting people view for free (on twitch), haha freeloaders
Stop talking out of your ass. If MLG is going to charge $20 (an unprecedented amount that I am willing to pay), it needs to be a flawless production. These lag issues and crashes are excusable when it's free because...... well, it's free. This isn't free. When the video lags like hell, but the audio is fine it's not my ISP. Stop talking out of your ass.
On February 27 2012 09:18 nGBeast wrote: its back up a 30 second downtime chill the fuck out
more like 9 minutes filled with lag
im watching in 1080p all 3 days with no to very minor lag, blame your ISP lowering your resolution if you can't handle it
Yeah sure, ALL of the people complaining about lags should just check their ISP. How stupid are you ?
I'm not a whiny little fuck when I don't get a clear 1080p, not my fault you can't handle 1080p. It's your ISP, obviously not all don't be so stupid, but it has to do with your bandwidth
I'm watching in 240p and still lagging, idiot. I'd be happy to have just a clear 480p.
On February 27 2012 09:18 nGBeast wrote: you people are jokes
why, when you do ppv and having an unwatchable finals is not acceptable
just because its PPV doesn't mean it wont have technical problems, the internet infrastructure is much much different compared to EU tournaments, people on the internet just like to whine and complain
edit: seems like they just found the bug that was letting people view for free (on twitch), haha freeloaders
Stop talking out of your ass. If MLG is going to charge $20 (an unprecedented amount that I am willing to pay), it needs to be a flawless production. These lag issues and crashes are excusable when it's free because...... well, it's free. This isn't free. When the video lags like hell, but the audio is fine it's not my ISP. Stop talking out of your ass.
So all in all your a whiny self entitled teenager that want's perfection from a first time hosting/streaming location
There was NO lag at all this weekend. Game 1 had some lag in the first half of the game, but was cleared up quick. Then the main stream went down during Game 3 but the other stream was still up. It sucks that the only two issues happened during the finals but overall the whole weekend went great, damn people cry way too much.
Hell it could have been twitch.tv's servers that fucked up since they are hosting the streams, and twitch.tv has ALWAYS had lag issues from time to time no matter who is the streamer.
On February 27 2012 09:25 enecateReAP wrote: I feel my IQ dropping from reading all the ill-thought out posts in here, especially when people are blaming MLG for the stream lag when it isn't them handling the streaming x.X; People just need to take a step back, either cool down and post something which actually contributes or login to reddit, there are many like you there.
(To add: I got 1080p without any lag for the first two days with minor lag on 3rd day)
Was very happy with the broadcast personally.
It's their fault regardless. They promised us a good stream and now it fails. Their fault. End of story. Your post made my IQ drop. X.x
On February 27 2012 09:24 goldenwitch wrote: The MLG quality has been great, you guys seriously need to relax a little bit and fix the issues with your own computer, rather than complaining about problems other people aren't even having.
So you're not only saying that it is OUR personal problem, but you're saying that we're LYING too?
Such a shame that this event is being ruined by the incompitence of Twitch. Dont use twich next time. It's okey for free event but when you pay you demand the stream is up and working.
I'll just add my voice to those that have been experiencing issues. This has been pretty terrible. I have a good internet connection, but this is just so choppy and unwatchable that I'm regretting it.
Yea you could watch Arena 1 if you like the annoying / bad caster they have for that stream.. The guy repeats himself every match, but he does have more game knowledge than the average caster.
The Lag and the stream going down DURING the Finals was a huge fuck up... that cant happen. i missed MKPs first marine/tank push on Shakuras because of this... :\
On February 27 2012 09:18 nGBeast wrote: its back up a 30 second downtime chill the fuck out
more like 9 minutes filled with lag
im watching in 1080p all 3 days with no to very minor lag, blame your ISP lowering your resolution if you can't handle it
Yeah sure, ALL of the people complaining about lags should just check their ISP. How stupid are you ?
I'm not a whiny little fuck when I don't get a clear 1080p, not my fault you can't handle 1080p. It's your ISP, obviously not all don't be so stupid, but it has to do with your bandwidth
I'm watching in 240p and still lagging, idiot. I'd be happy to have just a clear 480p.
Upgrade your shitty internet/computer
100/100 connection and a good computer and having lag aswell. It's twitch being shite for EU viewers.
On February 27 2012 09:28 coldplate wrote: nGBeast you're really ignorant. a lot of people have this issue and my internet connection is probably better than yours so stop talking shit
calling me ignorant but you don't know my hosting speeds, lol ironic
On February 27 2012 09:28 coldplate wrote: nGBeast you're really ignorant. a lot of people have this issue and my internet connection is probably better than yours so stop talking shit
calling me ignorant but you don't know my hosting speeds, lol ironic
neither do you know our internet connection or whether or not our computers are shitty, so stfu
On February 27 2012 09:18 nGBeast wrote: its back up a 30 second downtime chill the fuck out
more like 9 minutes filled with lag
im watching in 1080p all 3 days with no to very minor lag, blame your ISP lowering your resolution if you can't handle it
Yeah sure, ALL of the people complaining about lags should just check their ISP. How stupid are you ?
your both being stupid, none of you have engineering backgrounds so neither of you is qualified to say whos fault it is. you can say theres a problem so mlg/twitch can look in to it, but as soon as you start assigning blame and throwing around words like bandwidth or other words you once heard you just make yourself look like an uninformed idiot.
And you're assuming this because ...? I actually have an engineering background, thanks. I didn't blame Twitch nor MLG, i'm just saying that if we're that many complaining about lags, it obviously doesn't come ONLY from the ISP.
And nGBeast or whatever, i'm not gonna bother talking to you any longer, retards like you shouldn't be allowed to post.
On February 27 2012 09:28 coldplate wrote: nGBeast you're really ignorant. a lot of people have this issue and my internet connection is probably better than yours so stop talking shit
calling me ignorant but you don't know my hosting speeds, lol ironic
On February 27 2012 09:18 nGBeast wrote: its back up a 30 second downtime chill the fuck out
more like 9 minutes filled with lag
im watching in 1080p all 3 days with no to very minor lag, blame your ISP lowering your resolution if you can't handle it
Yeah sure, ALL of the people complaining about lags should just check their ISP. How stupid are you ?
I'm not a whiny little fuck when I don't get a clear 1080p, not my fault you can't handle 1080p. It's your ISP, obviously not all don't be so stupid, but it has to do with your bandwidth or computer. whiny self entitled teenagers seriously
[mod edit] "self-entitled???" Nobody here feels that way. They feel entitled to good content that THEY PAID $20 for. If I never have lag issues with streams EVER, and then suddenly the MLG stream lags like hell, it's not my ISP. Stop defending MLG for the sake of defending MLG.
Hopefully I am sure that in the MLG's crew people are more intelligent than the ones who are just saying "upgrades your computer lol noob" on this thread, and they will understand that they need to fix their stream for the next time. It is really weird to see a big structure as MLG to have some issues like that, other big events and event past MLGs are often better.
I will watch the games in VOD anyway, but it's sad for the live.
On February 27 2012 09:18 nGBeast wrote: its back up a 30 second downtime chill the fuck out
more like 9 minutes filled with lag
im watching in 1080p all 3 days with no to very minor lag, blame your ISP lowering your resolution if you can't handle it
Yeah sure, ALL of the people complaining about lags should just check their ISP. How stupid are you ?
I'm not a whiny little fuck when I don't get a clear 1080p, not my fault you can't handle 1080p. It's your ISP, obviously not all don't be so stupid, but it has to do with your bandwidth
I'm watching in 240p and still lagging, idiot. I'd be happy to have just a clear 480p.
On February 27 2012 09:18 nGBeast wrote: you people are jokes
why, when you do ppv and having an unwatchable finals is not acceptable
just because its PPV doesn't mean it wont have technical problems, the internet infrastructure is much much different compared to EU tournaments, people on the internet just like to whine and complain
edit: seems like they just found the bug that was letting people view for free (on twitch), haha freeloaders
Stop talking out of your ass. If MLG is going to charge $20 (an unprecedented amount that I am willing to pay), it needs to be a flawless production. These lag issues and crashes are excusable when it's free because...... well, it's free. This isn't free. When the video lags like hell, but the audio is fine it's not my ISP. Stop talking out of your ass.
So all in all your a whiny self entitled teenager that want's perfection from a first time hosting/streaming location
makes a lot of fucking sense
I measure 80-90 Mbps up and down, i've ran tests to NYC servers with good latency, no jitter, and no packet loss. It's not my computer or ISP. Stop talking about stuff you know nothing about, especially when calling others out when you seem to know nothing about computers or networking.
On February 27 2012 09:28 coldplate wrote: nGBeast you're really ignorant. a lot of people have this issue and my internet connection is probably better than yours so stop talking shit
calling me ignorant but you don't know my hosting speeds, lol ironic
On February 27 2012 09:28 IntoTheBush wrote: The Lag and the stream going down DURING the Finals was a huge fuck up... that cant happen. i missed MKPs first marine/tank push on Shakuras because of this... :\
Hi people, it is not your job to defend MLG. Do you think MLG is going to give you a special cookie and post your name on their office wall because you decided to be their little sheep?
This is an issue between people having technical problems and MLG, not you guys. If your stream is working fine, then great, go enjoy your stream and gtfo of this thread. No one likes a brown-noser, espesially when it's one defending the man at the cost of people feeling like they were ripped off.
The same people defending MLG right now are the same people who got presidents like George Bush elected and helped the economic crash happen. Tsk, tsk tsk.
I realy loved the way you made me watch all streams at once, and the finals when you can follow each player, see two streams with other casters. And the quality is ALOT ALOT better than code S / gomtv.
Only issue was the lag we had (from EU it seems), it looked like to always be the first set in each matchup(for me atleast).
I hope you do the same for the MLG championship. I wanna watch all those matches at once. And watch the match afterwards in HD.
Keep up the good work MLG! The best online watch/stream i've seen so far in the Starcraft 2 community!
On February 27 2012 09:18 nGBeast wrote: its back up a 30 second downtime chill the fuck out
more like 9 minutes filled with lag
im watching in 1080p all 3 days with no to very minor lag, blame your ISP lowering your resolution if you can't handle it
Yeah sure, ALL of the people complaining about lags should just check their ISP. How stupid are you ?
your both being stupid, none of you have engineering backgrounds so neither of you is qualified to say whos fault it is. you can say theres a problem so mlg/twitch can look in to it, but as soon as you start assigning blame and throwing around words like bandwidth or other words you once heard you just make yourself look like an uninformed idiot.
By your logic, "turdburgler", you are also being stupid because you aren't a psychic so you don't know that they don't have engineering backgrounds. Also internet routing/bandwidth has very little to do with engineering and in fact, if you study this kind of thing at a university you are a part of the computer science college rather than the engineering college.
Everyone needs to understand that there is no such thing as GUARANTEED when it comes to online streaming, no matter how much money you do or do not pay.
sooner or later sc2 ( the only remaining source of viewership of twitch ) will switch to Own3d the best and largest gaming streaming platform worldwide. despite some layout issues own3d has the best infrastracture and support and can handle hundred of thousand connections. Twitch is bad and totally unprofessional.
On February 27 2012 09:33 SCDKiLLaZ wrote: Everyone needs to understand that there is no such thing as GUARANTEED when it comes to online streaming, no matter how much money you do or do not pay.
Everyone needs to understand that it could be better than this. A lot better than this. And just because there's no guarantee doesn't mean you should eat MLG's shit while happily asking for more when things go wrong.
On February 27 2012 09:33 SCDKiLLaZ wrote: Everyone needs to understand that there is no such thing as GUARANTEED when it comes to online streaming, no matter how much money you do or do not pay.
If that is the case then I'm not bothering about buying this a second time.
On February 27 2012 09:18 nGBeast wrote: its back up a 30 second downtime chill the fuck out
more like 9 minutes filled with lag
im watching in 1080p all 3 days with no to very minor lag, blame your ISP lowering your resolution if you can't handle it
Yeah sure, ALL of the people complaining about lags should just check their ISP. How stupid are you ?
your both being stupid, none of you have engineering backgrounds so neither of you is qualified to say whos fault it is. you can say theres a problem so mlg/twitch can look in to it, but as soon as you start assigning blame and throwing around words like bandwidth or other words you once heard you just make yourself look like an uninformed idiot.
By your logic, "turdburgler", you are also being stupid because you aren't a psychic so you don't know that they don't have engineering backgrounds. Also internet routing/bandwidth has very little to do with engineering and in fact, if you study this kind of thing at a university you are a part of the computer science college rather than the engineering college.
what is the title of someone who fixes the technical problems with your internet? an engineer.
im noy psychic but at the same time, if they did know what they were talking about they wouldnt be making terrible angry posts, they would be phoning their isp to report a problem or they would be filling in a detailed form on the twitch site to tell them whats wrong. i could be 100% wrong, i agree, but something about the rage of their posts made me assume they didnt know what they are talking about.
I really like all the free streams. It's so nice that people are finally coming around to the idea that serving each other - indeed the human race as a whole, rather than specific wealth-mongering individuals - is the only way to truly move forward. Keep up all the free content MLG! GO MKP IN FINAL!
The blackout was not an actual blackout but rather a VERY questionable decision by the mlg staff. There was the possibility to watch the stream for free if you browse the mlg page via the incognito mode at chrome.
While i paid for watching some of my friends abused that bug.
They shut the stream off right at the most exciting point of the last match of the first bo3 just in order to fix the incognito bug. They ruined the game for EVERYBODY who paid to see the event just to ban some people who don't have theI possibility to pay for the stream. That was pretty much obvious since the bug was suddenly fixed when the stream came back on a few minutes later.
On February 27 2012 09:33 SCDKiLLaZ wrote: Everyone needs to understand that there is no such thing as GUARANTEED when it comes to online streaming, no matter how much money you do or do not pay.
Everyone needs to understand that it could be better than this. A lot better than this. And just because there's no guarantee doesn't mean you should eat MLG's shit while happily asking for more when things go wrong.
Well not sure how much better than this you can get when you have 4 streams in 1080p streaming about a total of 80 hours with only 30 seconds of lag and 30 seconds of downtime. I cant talk to the fact that there seems like a lot of EU has lag, but if you live in the States the lag you experienced was your own.
Those of you telling us to go call our ISPs are just trolling right?
I'm sure Twitch will come out saying theyre upgrading their EU servers for the 15th time in the last 6 months and everyone will cheer.
And nothing will continue to get fixed.
MLG needs to go back to whatever they used to stream Pro Circuit events in 2011, Twitch has been failing for so long now, I dont know what everyone was expecting.
On February 27 2012 09:18 nGBeast wrote: its back up a 30 second downtime chill the fuck out
more like 9 minutes filled with lag
im watching in 1080p all 3 days with no to very minor lag, blame your ISP lowering your resolution if you can't handle it
Yeah sure, ALL of the people complaining about lags should just check their ISP. How stupid are you ?
I'm not a whiny little fuck when I don't get a clear 1080p, not my fault you can't handle 1080p. It's your ISP, obviously not all don't be so stupid, but it has to do with your bandwidth
I'm watching in 240p and still lagging, idiot. I'd be happy to have just a clear 480p.
On February 27 2012 09:18 nGBeast wrote: you people are jokes
why, when you do ppv and having an unwatchable finals is not acceptable
just because its PPV doesn't mean it wont have technical problems, the internet infrastructure is much much different compared to EU tournaments, people on the internet just like to whine and complain
edit: seems like they just found the bug that was letting people view for free (on twitch), haha freeloaders
Stop talking out of your ass. If MLG is going to charge $20 (an unprecedented amount that I am willing to pay), it needs to be a flawless production. These lag issues and crashes are excusable when it's free because...... well, it's free. This isn't free. When the video lags like hell, but the audio is fine it's not my ISP. Stop talking out of your ass.
So all in all your a whiny self entitled teenager that want's perfection from a first time hosting/streaming location
makes a lot of fucking sense
I'm not sure how you could be anymore rude.
The stream has hardly any issues for 2 days and then a majority of people complain that the video is lagging (not the audio) for the finals. It seems justifiable that it is not their ISPs that are causing the issue.
When you pay for a product you expect to get your moneys worth. This is one, if not the first, time a Starcraft II tournament was PPV only. The higher it is priced, the higher expectations we have of production quality. If you bought a pass for a boxing special on PPV and the picture all the sudden went fuzzy and sometimes cut out during the main event, do you not think you would have a right to complain or even ask for a refund?
We are just learning from experience that the technology is horrid. It is still in an infancy phase. Internet connectivity is extremely sporadic and is different for each individual. How do you monetize an event when that is how you outlet your product? Each event might as well put in a warning: May have Battle.net drops. May have latency issues. May fail and shut down for short periods of time.
If that is the case then a question we ask ourselves is, is the product $20? There is a large issue going on within the gaming community about how the majority of people complain and yet still buy the product. I think that we are vastly misled by the products we are buying and yet gaming is something we love so we always have high hopes. MLG is in that similar situation where they promise things they can not commit to. As a community we have illegitimate arguments within ourselves about complaining. Sadly, we complain about complainers. There are people who say "It's just $20" and people that say "It's $20, that's too much!" and these people have arguments over that. It wastes time and doesn't get any message across to people who actually have an impact on the product.
The technology is not there for a company to have a PPV only event on this medium. It is too new and I disagree with Sundance when he states he wanted to start at $20 because then he can only go lower, not higher. I think you need to start low, gain enough credibility that the product is worth more and then gradually increase the price as it become more reliable. I would never pay $20 for this again. I would not pay $10. I would maybe pay $5 but I would consider that still a risk on my part.
On February 27 2012 09:33 SCDKiLLaZ wrote: Everyone needs to understand that there is no such thing as GUARANTEED when it comes to online streaming, no matter how much money you do or do not pay.
Everyone needs to understand that it could be better than this. A lot better than this. And just because there's no guarantee doesn't mean you should eat MLG's shit while happily asking for more when things go wrong.
Well not sure how much better than this you can get when you have 4 streams in 1080p streaming about a total of 80 hours with only 30 seconds of lag and 30 seconds of downtime. I cant talk to the fact that there seems like a lot of EU has lag, but if you live in the States the lag you experienced was your own.
That's not entirely true. I live in the states and have a pretty beefy internet connection and a pretty beefy computer and I've been getting intermittent lag the entire weekend. It seems to be something that a lot of people are experiencing, myself included and given the high number of people experiencing similar symptoms I find it hard to believe that it's the viewer's issues.
On February 27 2012 09:36 mrmyers wrote: The blackout was not an actual blackout but rather a VERY questionable decision by the mlg staff. There was the possibility to watch the stream for free if you browse the mlg page via the incognito mode at chrome.
While i paid for watching some of my friends abused that bug.
They shut the stream off right at the most exciting point of the last match of the first bo3 just in order to fix the incognito bug. They ruined the game for EVERYBODY who paid to see the event just to ban some people who don't have theI possibility to pay for the stream. That was pretty much obvious since the bug was suddenly fixed when the stream came back on a few minutes later.
Just registered to share that info with you!
You just registered to post nonsense then. Nothing has changed with being able to watch it for free on the MLG site.
On February 27 2012 09:33 SCDKiLLaZ wrote: Everyone needs to understand that there is no such thing as GUARANTEED when it comes to online streaming, no matter how much money you do or do not pay.
Everyone needs to understand that it could be better than this. A lot better than this. And just because there's no guarantee doesn't mean you should eat MLG's shit while happily asking for more when things go wrong.
Well not sure how much better than this you can get when you have 4 streams in 1080p streaming about a total of 80 hours with only 30 seconds of lag and 30 seconds of downtime. I cant talk to the fact that there seems like a lot of EU has lag, but if you live in the States the lag you experienced was your own.
That's not entirely true. I live in the states and have a pretty beefy internet connection and a pretty beefy computer and I've been getting intermittent lag the entire weekend. It seems to be something that a lot of people are experiencing, myself included and given the high number of people experiencing similar symptoms I find it hard to believe that it's the viewer's issues.
I work for an internet streaming company on weekends (....not twitch....) so needless to say I have an excellent internet at my disposal that has to be consistant. There was no lag whatsoever for me until the finals, I wasn't running 4 streams at 720 concurrently (too much for the work comp to handle) but set at a reasonable bit rate there never was an issue. (1 stream at 720, 3 at 480)
I just clicked on the stream in twitch and it worked. No spamming, incognito mode, anything. I appreciate the accidental free content and enjoyed watching the finals.
overall great event, definitely glad I payed the $20 to see it all, but Im kinda sad they didn't have an award ceremony at the end. No trophy presentation or anything
I never post under any threads, pay for any tournament, but followed this scene since SC2 beta, and I have to say, this was the first event I've paid for, watched every game right to the end credits, and never felt the urge more to support this game and these events more than now.
Thanks for making this weekend a blast to watch, I would of prefered a live audience as the crowds cheering the name of the winner just makes it that much more epic, but thats what MLG colombus will be all about.
Please offer a day-by-day subscription option. Please do a better job of showing the tournament format for the different rounds. Please have more than bo3 for champion bracket. Other than this stuff, great job! awesome tournament.
I posted this on Reddit just now too but it's worth repeating:
Only one thing really REALLY stood out for me. No aftershow. MKP won and the presentation was: OKAY THATS IT thanks for watching all byebye go to bed now.
This is no way to present your climactic moment! Look at GSL team arena! I want huge celebrations, I want MKP being hugged to death from all sides by all the other players, I want to see the other players celebrating.. throw us a bone!
On February 27 2012 10:20 meelmutsTL wrote: I posted this on Reddit just now too but it's worth repeating:
Only one thing really REALLY stood out for me. No aftershow. MKP won and the presentation was: OKAY THATS IT thanks for watching all byebye go to bed now.
This is no way to present your climactic moment! Look at GSL team arena! I want huge celebrations, I want MKP being hugged to death from all sides by all the other players, I want to see the other players celebrating.. throw us a bone!
His team isnt there -- all the other players he beat arent going to hug him. Its hard to have huge celebration without a crowd too.
you can get the same at every other big event(maybe not the same player lineup but thats not enough for $20). Bad casting (except tastosis/grubby/maybe slightly djwheat), bad ending(no price ceremony? NOTHING?!? Come on...), no crowd(BIG MINUS), interviews were boring aswell. It was just game after game(and for me not even enough games to rly say that was worth it). Too many games at the same time with too many bad casters, bad observing.
Bad times for europe, laggy streams, streams going off in the finals, people who havent paid can watch 4free, drpepper stream or whatever it was called was kinda useless.
It was a good event but as i said not good enough for $20.
On February 27 2012 10:20 meelmutsTL wrote: I posted this on Reddit just now too but it's worth repeating:
Only one thing really REALLY stood out for me. No aftershow. MKP won and the presentation was: OKAY THATS IT thanks for watching all byebye go to bed now.
This is no way to present your climactic moment! Look at GSL team arena! I want huge celebrations, I want MKP being hugged to death from all sides by all the other players, I want to see the other players celebrating.. throw us a bone!
I agree, it would have been nice even if they left the Dr. Pepper/players lounge stream up for a little bit, a check presentation, etc. There may not be a crowd but that's all still part of a tourney.
With that being said I really liked the presentation of this weekend, the overview mode was awesome, and besides a few lag issues (finals most prominently) everything was smooth and lag free. There were definately a lot more matches crammed into a weekend than I'd normally expect to see on a MLG weekend, and it was nice to not have long periods of downtime. The ticket at the bottem telling you what was hapening on the other streams was priceless, and really helped me manage what streams I wanted to focus on over the weekend.
In the future I'd like to see the streams stay up during the finals, it kinda dropped at an extremely pivitol moment in 3set, and it would be a shame to have that happen again in the future. Tho it was nice of them to go over/show us the replay of what happened anyway.
well i got to watch the broadcast free. only complaint is that sometimes the ad for subscription keeps coming up and i have to refresh it until it streams properly. best format is to go back to regular MLGs of last year. without a crowd and proper venue, the story feels a bit empty.
Basically caster feedback: Especially Wheat & Tasteless (though the others do as well): You guys often cannot say a complete sentence without "ahh".
I know it's difficult to think of cool & fun stuff on the fly (probably even more in dualcasting and you expected your partner to jump in), but those "aaahs" really annoy me. Just have a small pause (or talk slower in non exciting moments) - it's better (mentally say "pause" to yourself when you would say "aah" normally), but please try to work on that.
Edit, to clarify: I'm not talking about "OMG AAAH IT'S SO EXCITING". I'm fine with that. I'm talking about (hyperbole): "Well this game was really good, aeh, <playername> had a good strategy and his opponent, aeh, just couldnt deal with this. So, aeh, what do you think <caster>"
what is the title of someone who fixes the technical problems with your internet? an engineer.
So by that logic, the engineer on a train is actually an engineer? Rofl, if you dont have an engineering degree, you aren't an engineer.
Would have been mad if I payed the $20 for that, considering I was getting annoyed at the restream I was watching.
what you say confuses me greatly
the ending was so weird when everyone was so shocked by the ending, maybe if mlg want more of a climatic ending they could of kept all/most of the pros in the broadcast room for the finals. go to the pro players after each game to hear their whines/thoughts and then they would of applauded at the end.
the dead silence at the end seemed to confuse everyone.
On February 27 2012 10:20 meelmutsTL wrote: I posted this on Reddit just now too but it's worth repeating:
Only one thing really REALLY stood out for me. No aftershow. MKP won and the presentation was: OKAY THATS IT thanks for watching all byebye go to bed now.
This is no way to present your climactic moment! Look at GSL team arena! I want huge celebrations, I want MKP being hugged to death from all sides by all the other players, I want to see the other players celebrating.. throw us a bone!
this was also odd. wheres the oversized cheque or some random razor girl giving out the prize to make all the nerds get nervous. just anything would of been great. some confetti and party poppers would of been enough :D
Casting in general was nice, BUT, observing really should be a lot better. It was really bad at times on the 4th stream (with the single caster, robin?), but also on the main stream it was less than optimal a lot of the times.
Also, the lack of crowd did cheapen the feel a bit, but I think you guys can easily solve that by having 1 or 2 reporters ready at active barcrafts to catch those moments.
Edit: yeah, twitch.tv really made watching it very unpleasant, especially on the third day.
I will not be paying 20 USD again for similar content streamed through twitch.tv. It's fine as a streaming service for individual gamers and 'free' tournaments, but it obviously is not good enough to provide a PPV stream with and it has a history of simply being unreliable in Europe. There were lag issues this weekend not only at MLG, but also at ROG and I think the overall record of twitch speaks for itself. Twitch is obviously improving slowly, but it's not yet good enough to offer PPV content, especially for 20 USD.
I found the actual content of the tournament worth it. Brackets were good, players were too. I would have liked to see a better casting line-up, but that's no dealbreaker for me.
On February 27 2012 10:26 Zocat wrote: Basically caster feedback: Especially Wheat & Tasteless (though the others do as well): You guys often cannot say a complete sentence without "ahh".
I know it's difficult to think of cool & fun stuff on the fly (probably even more in dualcasting and you expected your partner to jump in), but those "aaahs" really annoy me. Just have a small pause (or talk slower in non exciting moments) - it's better (mentally say "pause" to yourself when you would say "aah" normally), but please try to work on that.
If they annoy you so much, why dont you turn off the sound?
Their personalities and their "aaah" makes them cast these events and GSL code S aswell. I hope they dont change at all.
On February 27 2012 10:29 Derez wrote: I will not be paying 20 USD again for similar content streamed through twitch.tv. It's fine as a streaming service for individual gamers and 'free' tournaments, but it obviously is not good enough to provide a PPV stream with and it has a history of simply being unreliable in Europe. There were lag issues this weekend not only at MLG, but also at ROG and I think the overall record of twitch speaks for itself. Twitch is obviously improving slowly, but it's not yet good enough to offer PPV content, especially for 20 USD.
I found the actual content of the tournament worth it. Brackets were good, players were too. I would have liked to see a better casting line-up, but that's no dealbreaker for me.
Completely agree. If they don't work out their streaming service and VOD player (holy hell twitch, that thing is just bad), I'm definitely not paying for another event of this type. Had lag pretty much troughout the entire event, watched day 3 mostly in 360/480p and day 1 was even worse than that. I would be perfectly fine with that for a free event, but 20$ is really too much to just not care about it.
And just like you said, content itself was pretty good, still a room for improvement though for example some kind of winner ceremony would be nice, or more post match interviews etc... not just ''Ok he won, see you in Columbus'' and free stream had a lot more potential than that. Have someone constantly there doing interviews with players, talking with them about their games etc... There was just very little actual content there.
Comparing this to the Asus ROG event I have to say I enjoyed Asus ROG a bit more.
1. Live audience. Even tho the finnish crowd was bad, it was still more entertaining than having no reactions at all. If this would've been like HSC, in a cool atmosphere and everyone having fun etc it would've been ok, but it was all just too serious. Even HSC had a winner ceremony in the barcraft down stairs at the end, MLG didn't have a ceremony at all.
2. Casters. Tastosis are great, but if you wanted to watch some not so top matches you had to listen to Tumba, JP, Wheat and other not so optimal casters, that were just harder to listen to as the Assembly casters. And I really don't like Total Biscuit.
3. Game quality. I know that's not really in MLG's hand, but the games at Assembly were just more exciting. It would've helped if MLG changed the qualifier system a bit, because having 8 NA players there just drags down the overall quality of games (Huk and Idra games are most of the time not exciting, and the other NA players except Sheth are just not good enough). Also doing this at the same time as Asus ROG totally fucked up the european roster. Imagine Stephano, Kas, Dimaga, Nerchio, White-Ra and Mana being at MLG instead of Merz, Pomi, Sjow etc.
4. Extended series and double elimination bracket. Group play and single elimination bracket playoffs are just much more entertaining for the viewer. I really can't believe MLG didn't get rid of extended series after 2011. And the winnerbracket final, loserbracket final and grand final just don't feel as epic as semifinals and grandfinals in a single elimination bracket.
Not worth 20$ at all, especially if you can get Assembly at the same weekend. The next Arena event needs to have a live audience, different casters and better foreigners and a price not higher than 10$ for me to buy it again.
On February 27 2012 10:24 CEPEHDREI wrote: So in the end again not good enough for $20.
you can get the same at every other big event(maybe not the same player lineup but thats not enough for $20). Bad casting (except tastosis/grubby/maybe slightly djwheat), bad ending(no price ceremony? NOTHING?!? Come on...), no crowd(BIG MINUS), interviews were boring aswell. It was just game after game(and for me not even enough games to rly say that was worth it). Too many games at the same time with too many bad casters, bad observing.
Bad times for europe, laggy streams, streams going off in the finals, people who havent paid can watch 4free, drpepper stream or whatever it was called was kinda useless.
It was a good event but as i said not good enough for $20.
This post sums up my feelings on the event. I enjoyed watching such high level games with a great cast players from around the world. I mean, it is hard to get a cast of 32 players together that is more frightening than this one was. The production quality was great for most of the weekend, except for the lag in some crucial moments during the finals. A couple of great story lines developed very early on too.
That being said I can't imagine spending 20$ on something like this again as well. MLG has to very carefully consider the pricing of their next arena, or they will have to change the dynamic significantly. Also, the fact that people could watch the finals without paying is quite discouraging to those who actually bought the pass.
On February 27 2012 10:26 BlackGosu wrote: well i got to watch the broadcast free. only complaint is that sometimes the ad for subscription keeps coming up and i have to refresh it until it streams properly.
Are you for real? You're complaining because the PPV wall actually did something once in a while to try and deter you?
On February 27 2012 10:26 BlackGosu wrote: well i got to watch the broadcast free. only complaint is that sometimes the ad for subscription keeps coming up and i have to refresh it until it streams properly.
Are you for real? You're complaining because the PPV wall actually did something once in a while to try and deter you?
why shouldn't I? after all this should be a free event. I suppose you think LAN support is a privilege to have as well?
On February 27 2012 10:20 meelmutsTL wrote: I posted this on Reddit just now too but it's worth repeating:
Only one thing really REALLY stood out for me. No aftershow. MKP won and the presentation was: OKAY THATS IT thanks for watching all byebye go to bed now.
This is no way to present your climactic moment! Look at GSL team arena! I want huge celebrations, I want MKP being hugged to death from all sides by all the other players, I want to see the other players celebrating.. throw us a bone!
His team isnt there -- all the other players he beat arent going to hug him. Its hard to have huge celebration without a crowd too.
Leenock would hug him =P. But yes, no presentation or ceremony was pretty sad. Almost made the tournament insignificant. Remember HerO's dreamhack ceremony? That was epic. This was not.
Excellent presentation from top to bottom. I missed Sean and everything that he brings to the table, but outside of that I had very few complaints about the quality of the cast.
Rob had a few problems with speaking over his co-caster on the first day, but as of Saturday his microphone etiquette improved tremendously. Enjoyed his commentary and presence, and based on the high quality of his work, I'd like to see further integration of Blizzard's E-sports team in future casts. He has a bright future in front of the microphone.
Might try separating duties more between casters and anchors--make Wheat and JP full-time anchors who provide panels, updates, and insight between games, and limit the casts themselves to established duos (Tastosis, DayX, etc).
I didn't care for the new casters on the third stream (got drunk by taking a drink everytime one of them said "slo-verlords"), but I like the idea of auditioning new casting talent on the less-watched games in the first few rounds of the tournament. Would like to see a rotation of new talent auditioned in this spot in future MLG events.
sorry if i post this here again, but i have a rule question: what would have happened at mlg if: huk would have won against drg -> huk vs mkp finals
Finals: first "bo3" -> actually a extended bo7 with MKP 2:0 in the lead then i.e. huks wins this 4:2
now we have 2 options: 1.) huk won the tournament overall without MKP ever dropping to the lower bracket! he would just be eliminated with losing his first match (i cant really believe this) or 2.) MKP drops to the losers bracked (like he did against drg now) and the will play another "bo3". But this would have been their third "bo3". Would this then be actually a Bo11 with huk 4:2 in the lead?
this case actually never happened so far, does anyone know FOR SURE how this would have been handled (good explaination and maybe sources)?
On February 27 2012 11:13 Stoffelhase wrote: sorry if i post this here again, but i have a rule question: what would have happened at mlg if: huk would have won against drg -> huk vs mkp finals
Finals: first "bo3" -> actually a extended bo7 with MKP 2:0 in the lead then i.e. huks wins this 4:2
now we have 2 options: 1.) huk won the tournament overall without MKP ever dropping to the lower bracket! he would just be eliminated with losing his first match (i cant really believe this) or 2.) MKP drops to the losers bracked (like he did against drg now) and the will play another "bo3". But this would have been their third "bo3". Would this then be actually a Bo11 with huk 4:2 in the lead?
this case actually never happened so far, does anyone know FOR SURE how this would have been handled (good explaination and maybe sources)?
Huk wouldn't win it 4-2. MKP only has to win 2 games while huk has to win 4. MKP losing 4 games would be equivalent to losing two bo3 sets, 2 games each.
On February 27 2012 10:24 CEPEHDREI wrote: So in the end again not good enough for $20.
you can get the same at every other big event(maybe not the same player lineup but thats not enough for $20). Bad casting (except tastosis/grubby/maybe slightly djwheat), bad ending(no price ceremony? NOTHING?!? Come on...), no crowd(BIG MINUS), interviews were boring aswell. It was just game after game(and for me not even enough games to rly say that was worth it). Too many games at the same time with too many bad casters, bad observing.
Bad times for europe, laggy streams, streams going off in the finals, people who havent paid can watch 4free, drpepper stream or whatever it was called was kinda useless.
It was a good event but as i said not good enough for $20.
Pretty much how I feel about it. Dunno if I will even bother buying the next one if restreams will be available or if people who haven't paid can watch the streams in full quality....like wtf. In the event that I would feel like buying it, I wouldn't pay $20 for it again...it was worth maybe $10, $15 at the most in my mind.
On February 27 2012 11:13 Stoffelhase wrote: sorry if i post this here again, but i have a rule question: what would have happened at mlg if: huk would have won against drg -> huk vs mkp finals
Finals: first "bo3" -> actually a extended bo7 with MKP 2:0 in the lead then i.e. huks wins this 4:2
now we have 2 options: 1.) huk won the tournament overall without MKP ever dropping to the lower bracket! he would just be eliminated with losing his first match (i cant really believe this) or 2.) MKP drops to the losers bracked (like he did against drg now) and the will play another "bo3". But this would have been their third "bo3". Would this then be actually a Bo11 with huk 4:2 in the lead?
this case actually never happened so far, does anyone know FOR SURE how this would have been handled (good explaination and maybe sources)?
Huk wouldn't win it 4-2. MKP only has to win 2 games while huk has to win 4. MKP losing 4 games would be equivalent to losing two bo3 sets, 2 games each.
Have you any proof for this? Just saying one Bo7 loss counts as two Bo3 losses doesnt really convince me.
On February 27 2012 11:13 Stoffelhase wrote: sorry if i post this here again, but i have a rule question: what would have happened at mlg if: huk would have won against drg -> huk vs mkp finals
Finals: first "bo3" -> actually a extended bo7 with MKP 2:0 in the lead then i.e. huks wins this 4:2
now we have 2 options: 1.) huk won the tournament overall without MKP ever dropping to the lower bracket! he would just be eliminated with losing his first match (i cant really believe this) or 2.) MKP drops to the losers bracked (like he did against drg now) and the will play another "bo3". But this would have been their third "bo3". Would this then be actually a Bo11 with huk 4:2 in the lead?
this case actually never happened so far, does anyone know FOR SURE how this would have been handled (good explaination and maybe sources)?
Huk wouldn't win it 4-2. MKP only has to win 2 games while huk has to win 4. MKP losing 4 games would be equivalent to losing two bo3 sets, 2 games each.
Have you any proof for this? Just saying one Bo7 loss counts as two Bo3 losses doesnt really convince me.
My take is that for anybody in their right mind to watch 3 consecutive days of Starcraft 2 action has not nearly the responsibilities that most individuals have. I will not pay $20 for a weekend as I am constantly leaving to and from over those 3 days. $20 is too much for me to lay down for something I cannot jump in head over heels. From what I heard though there were some fantastic games and good atmosphere as well as the streaming quality. If the price lowers significantly or offers further discount to a Gold Membership, which I am, then I cannot support with my monies. I will continue to support MLG through Gold Membership though.
On February 27 2012 11:13 Stoffelhase wrote: sorry if i post this here again, but i have a rule question: what would have happened at mlg if: huk would have won against drg -> huk vs mkp finals
Finals: first "bo3" -> actually a extended bo7 with MKP 2:0 in the lead then i.e. huks wins this 4:2
now we have 2 options: 1.) huk won the tournament overall without MKP ever dropping to the lower bracket! he would just be eliminated with losing his first match (i cant really believe this) or 2.) MKP drops to the losers bracked (like he did against drg now) and the will play another "bo3". But this would have been their third "bo3". Would this then be actually a Bo11 with huk 4:2 in the lead?
this case actually never happened so far, does anyone know FOR SURE how this would have been handled (good explaination and maybe sources)?
Huk wouldn't win it 4-2. MKP only has to win 2 games while huk has to win 4. MKP losing 4 games would be equivalent to losing two bo3 sets, 2 games each.
Have you any proof for this? Just saying one Bo7 loss counts as two Bo3 losses doesnt really convince me.
if the other guy is up 2:0 from the extended series? Honestly with that kind of advantadge you'd need to win 4:1 at the worst, which would be a fairly decisive series.
The more common case is that the finals either go to the guy coming from the upper bracket straight up, or that he wins within a few games at most. We have had quite a few MLGs where the final was a single Bo3 because the upper bracket guy won straight.
This was really great, guys! Just a few things Ill say before I begin my feedback: I watched mainly 480p for everything, just a preference/computer issue thing. I missed the finals, but it's all good, Ill watch the VODs. I did pay the $20 for the broadcast, Ive been impressed with your improvement from tournament to tournament and support your moves forward.
The Good
Layout options! I had the Trio option open for 60% of the time. It was really nice to switch from stream-to-stream so quickly. I full screened when I knew I didnt want to watch anything else.
Tastosis This kinda goes without saying, but its really nice to hear these guys cast SC2 games. Artosis was spot-on with almost all his commentary, predicting builds 10 supply or a full minute in advance... pretty damn impressive.
Camera views / Backdrop I loved the view in the background. Many people will probably say it doesnt mean anything, but you guys got this right. Seeing the city behind the players/during interviews was a really cool feature. Having just a room for the players was nice, they seemed comfortable, which always presents a nice atmosphere. Im sure to get this you sacrificed a live audience, but I say it was 99% worth it. Backdrops on casters were clean as well, it was easy to watch, I enjoyed it.
Nos Corner Im sure this is your equivalent to "The Couch" from Dreamhack. Good job, I enjoyed the fun atmosphere it brought to the post-game analysis.
Grubby Casting This dude needs to be paid big bucks to cast more games. A message to whoever gets him to cast for you: Do what it takes to get him there! A message to Grubby: You fucking rock! And just to throw it out there, I really enjoyed Axslav casting as well, thumbs up to him.
Pregame shows In general, I just enjoy watching these. Getting everyones predictions etc. Day 1 was really great, though, I wish there was some more "professionalism" and a more official... idk how to describe it, but I wish the casters were more direct with their own predictions past Day 1. *good job Rob with the Devil Terran ;D*
Always something to watch Day 1 and Day 2, there was always a stream with games or some type of analysis going on. And if there wasnt, it wasnt for long. I usually used that time to pee or get a few things done around the house anyway. =)
The Bad
The Lag! This is an issue for all touranments, so I feel a bit bad mentioning it. But 1080p was really difficult to even attempt. I know my computer can handle a single stream at 1080p or 720p, but 1080p was always a bit difficult to follow. Before the paywall went up, 720p+ was unbearable at times as well. 480p and below were perfect, I never lagged, ever.
Day 2, there was a kid in the Dr Pepper Room I know, Im going to hell for hating on a kid. But he interrupted an interview, he was kinda all over the players (if I were there, Id be annoyed on a pro level) and he played a few Customs that got streamed where he did (literally) nothing. Probably just me.
Stay on topic casters! There were times after an exciting game, the casters would ask the Nos Corner their thoughts and they would say "Oh, I missed the game, but I saw this one!" and there would be no post-game analysis for the game that was just shown. It irritated me a bit.
Signing in... I had to sign in after the paywall was put up Day 1 about 15 times. Sometimes, it would ask me mid-game. From what I read in the chat, others experienced the same problem. Day 2 a little better, but it still asked me to log in ~5 times. Day 3 there were no issues, so good job there!? Not sure what was different.
Instant Replays Great idea to have them after the game! Though, battle.net doesnt really allow the technology to make this easy, I understand. The replay portions of the post game analysis got messy and sometimes repetitive. I really, really, really like the idea of instant replays and I hope you all come up with a way to incorporate this idea in a more effective and "cool" manner.
No smack talk?! SotG discussed some about NASLs setup of the same-booth setup and how itd be fun to hear the players talk smack. I understand you guys have no control over how players interact, but perhaps you all could encourage them somehow. ;D Also, the keyboard clicking noises, get on that. Strangely enough, I do enjoy that when I watch streamers.
There are many more Good things I didnt mention because they are things I straight-up expect from tournaments of your status. There are also more good and bad things I am forgetting, Im sure. But overall, as I stated above, I really enjoyed the tournament. It was 100% worth the $20. Anyone that is complaining about the cost is either too young to own a credit card/paypal, just didnt have the time to watch this weekend (thus will wait for the VODs), or are simply butt hurt (sorry guys). If people are going to "pirate" the tournament live, dont be bitching about the price, just continue to hurt e-sports in your own way and stop spamming threads with your whining. Honestly, I wish there was a Barcraft I could have attended within an hour of me (Round Lake, IL) that I could have spent my $20 on beer instead. ^_^ Cheers MLG.
P.S. Fly Husky and Day9 out next time no matter the cost, I love them. o.0 (no homo)
On February 27 2012 10:26 BlackGosu wrote: well i got to watch the broadcast free. only complaint is that sometimes the ad for subscription keeps coming up and i have to refresh it until it streams properly.
Are you for real? You're complaining because the PPV wall actually did something once in a while to try and deter you?
why shouldn't I? after all this should be a free event. I suppose you think LAN support is a privilege to have as well?
god, think before you post.
are you serious?
I hope to god this is an epic troll attempt at best.
On February 27 2012 11:13 Stoffelhase wrote: sorry if i post this here again, but i have a rule question: what would have happened at mlg if: huk would have won against drg -> huk vs mkp finals
Finals: first "bo3" -> actually a extended bo7 with MKP 2:0 in the lead then i.e. huks wins this 4:2
now we have 2 options: 1.) huk won the tournament overall without MKP ever dropping to the lower bracket! he would just be eliminated with losing his first match (i cant really believe this) or 2.) MKP drops to the losers bracked (like he did against drg now) and the will play another "bo3". But this would have been their third "bo3". Would this then be actually a Bo11 with huk 4:2 in the lead?
this case actually never happened so far, does anyone know FOR SURE how this would have been handled (good explaination and maybe sources)?
Huk wouldn't win it 4-2. MKP only has to win 2 games while huk has to win 4. MKP losing 4 games would be equivalent to losing two bo3 sets, 2 games each.
Have you any proof for this? Just saying one Bo7 loss counts as two Bo3 losses doesnt really convince me.
If huk advanced to the finals, he starts the Bo7 down 0-2, meaning he has to win 4 games, while MKP only needs to win 2. If huk wins the first 2, the series is tied 2-2. At the point it would be MKP dropping down to the lower bracket where the play a Bo3 to decide the finals.
I honestly thought it went like really well for the most part but one of the biggest issue was just what happened on the last day. I went to a get together with my college's Starcraft Club for a viewing party and here's the response I have for that last day that caused the biggest issue.
A lot of the excitement the first two days was watching these super pumped and rigged matches. And it was completely fine that there wasn't a crowd for those first two days because there were so many great matches going on that there was hype built up just by the fact that so many of these amazing players were playing. But when it comes down to one game being played at a time on the last day for the finals, with lots of downtime in-between, you need really solid analysis between games and a crowd to produce hype. What ended up happening was the casters were unable to provide much deep post-game analysis because they were just trying to build hype for these epic games being played in the finals. Unfortunately, it's really hard to build hype when there's lag going on in games, big downtime, and such. Thus, the casters aren't able to provide the proper amount of hype for these games as the tournament nears its end and they're torn between providing analysis and trying to create the hype.
What needs to happen is the casters need to be able to depend on the crowd's cheering, aw's and oo's to provide hype so they can both focus on providing analysis, and build off the crowd's hype. When the casters build off the crowd's hype, the crowd becomes even more hyped and they feed off each other. THAT is what can make many games incredibly epic. I was happy to see Sundance acknowledge that some things could have gone better and I hope he makes an effort to address this problem. Even MKP was addressing the issue after his win. Another glaring problem was the lack of an awards ceremony but I think that's been talked about a good lot so I'll let other people continue to post on that.
On February 27 2012 11:13 Stoffelhase wrote: sorry if i post this here again, but i have a rule question: what would have happened at mlg if: huk would have won against drg -> huk vs mkp finals
Finals: first "bo3" -> actually a extended bo7 with MKP 2:0 in the lead then i.e. huks wins this 4:2
now we have 2 options: 1.) huk won the tournament overall without MKP ever dropping to the lower bracket! he would just be eliminated with losing his first match (i cant really believe this) or 2.) MKP drops to the losers bracked (like he did against drg now) and the will play another "bo3". But this would have been their third "bo3". Would this then be actually a Bo11 with huk 4:2 in the lead?
this case actually never happened so far, does anyone know FOR SURE how this would have been handled (good explaination and maybe sources)?
Huk wouldn't win it 4-2. MKP only has to win 2 games while huk has to win 4. MKP losing 4 games would be equivalent to losing two bo3 sets, 2 games each.
Have you any proof for this? Just saying one Bo7 loss counts as two Bo3 losses doesnt really convince me.
Thank you! That explains everything but might lead to another bad case: If Player A gets first in Poolplay with a 4-1 matchrecord, just losing to Player B and they meet again in the grand final (Player B coming from the lower bracket) then the Winner Bracket champion Player A goes into the final with a disadvantage. This feels wrong, but seems to be the system :/
On February 27 2012 10:26 Zocat wrote: Basically caster feedback: Especially Wheat & Tasteless (though the others do as well): You guys often cannot say a complete sentence without "ahh".
I know it's difficult to think of cool & fun stuff on the fly (probably even more in dualcasting and you expected your partner to jump in), but those "aaahs" really annoy me. Just have a small pause (or talk slower in non exciting moments) - it's better (mentally say "pause" to yourself when you would say "aah" normally), but please try to work on that.
If they annoy you so much, why dont you turn off the sound?
Their personalities and their "aaah" makes them cast these events and GSL code S aswell. I hope they dont change at all.
What has their personality to do with my complain? To clarify - I dont mean "AAAH ITS SO EXCITING". But more of an "aeh" sound. I'm talking about (hyperbole): "Well this game was really good, aeh, <playername> had a good strategy and his opponent, aeh, just couldnt deal with this. So, aeh, what do you think <caster>" + Show Spoiler [Basically this] +
Starts ~0:22
I will edit my post to clarify this (since I think you could misinterpret my complain as a "dont be so excited" complain).
On February 27 2012 09:24 goldenwitch wrote: The MLG quality has been great, you guys seriously need to relax a little bit and fix the issues with your own computer, rather than complaining about problems other people aren't even having.
I missed over 3min of a game at a barcraft after it had already been reduced to 480p due to stream quality/lag issues. I had no idea what happened and it came back with lopsided supply.
If they're going to promote going to barcrafts they should at least make sure it's going to work in low quality for said events.
On February 27 2012 09:25 enecateReAP wrote: I feel my IQ dropping from reading all the ill-thought out posts in here, especially when people are blaming MLG for the stream lag when it isn't them handling the streaming x.X; People just need to take a step back, either cool down and post something which actually contributes or login to reddit, there are many like you there.
(To add: I got 1080p without any lag for the first two days with minor lag on 3rd day)
On February 27 2012 11:12 farside604 wrote: Like the casting, it was kinda cool to divide up Tastosis throughout the tournament. It was very weird not having a crowd it felt much less exciting.
Given the issues with switching between streams, I thought it was kind of annoying that Tastosis were on any given stream at any given time.
On February 27 2012 09:25 enecateReAP wrote: I feel my IQ dropping from reading all the ill-thought out posts in here, especially when people are blaming MLG for the stream lag when it isn't them handling the streaming x.X; People just need to take a step back, either cool down and post something which actually contributes or login to reddit, there are many like you there.
(To add: I got 1080p without any lag for the first two days with minor lag on 3rd day)
Was very happy with the broadcast personally.
You should have posted BEFORE your IQ dropped, not after.
People are complaining to the entity that took their money promising to deliver value in return. Whether this entity handled providing said value themselves or whether they out-sourced it to another entity is of exactly zero relevance. Whether the inability to provide said value has to do with this entity being incapable of producing it, or whether this entity is incapable of finding business partners that are, is of exactly zero relevance.
I watched for free, but might consider paying next time since the event was pretty good. For 10$, I'll pay I guess. By allowing people that didn't want to pay they may get more customers next time as they know what they are gonna pay for now. It's not that bad after all.
On February 27 2012 10:26 Zocat wrote: Basically caster feedback: Especially Wheat & Tasteless (though the others do as well): You guys often cannot say a complete sentence without "ahh".
I know it's difficult to think of cool & fun stuff on the fly (probably even more in dualcasting and you expected your partner to jump in), but those "aaahs" really annoy me. Just have a small pause (or talk slower in non exciting moments) - it's better (mentally say "pause" to yourself when you would say "aah" normally), but please try to work on that.
If they annoy you so much, why dont you turn off the sound?
Their personalities and their "aaah" makes them cast these events and GSL code S aswell. I hope they dont change at all.
What has their personality to do with my complain? To clarify - I dont mean "AAAH ITS SO EXCITING". But more of an "aeh" sound. I'm talking about (hyperbole): "Well this game was really good, aeh, <playername> had a good strategy and his opponent, aeh, just couldnt deal with this. So, aeh, what do you think <caster>" + Show Spoiler [Basically this] +
I will edit my post to clarify this (since I think you could misinterpret my complain as a "dont be so excited" complain).
now i'm riding with you!
I started to notice it just now when you said it, while i watch day9 and destiny etc. (at the moment) All i can say is Destiny use "aeeeh" alot. Day9 use "aeeeuhh" alot. Majority of American casters/streamers use "aeuh" alot. Might just be the way they are? i dont know.
You guys really need to fix your Vods. Some of the games cut out before the freaking game ends. But overall the boradcast was ..ok. Finals day was a freaking lagfest and had to watch in low res(I watched all other 2 days in HD)
On February 27 2012 09:25 enecateReAP wrote: I feel my IQ dropping from reading all the ill-thought out posts in here, especially when people are blaming MLG for the stream lag when it isn't them handling the streaming x.X; People just need to take a step back, either cool down and post something which actually contributes or login to reddit, there are many like you there.
(To add: I got 1080p without any lag for the first two days with minor lag on 3rd day)
Was very happy with the broadcast personally.
You should have posted BEFORE your IQ dropped, not after.
People are complaining to the entity that took their money promising to deliver value in return. Whether this entity handled providing said value themselves or whether they out-sourced it to another entity is of exactly zero relevance. Whether the inability to provide said value has to do with this entity being incapable of producing it, or whether this entity is incapable of finding business partners that are, is of exactly zero relevance.
There are definitely people directly blaming MLG for the lag, and they are flat out wrong. Whether you got your moneys worth is a completely different subject.
On February 27 2012 09:25 enecateReAP wrote: I feel my IQ dropping from reading all the ill-thought out posts in here, especially when people are blaming MLG for the stream lag when it isn't them handling the streaming x.X; People just need to take a step back, either cool down and post something which actually contributes or login to reddit, there are many like you there.
(To add: I got 1080p without any lag for the first two days with minor lag on 3rd day)
Was very happy with the broadcast personally.
You should have posted BEFORE your IQ dropped, not after.
People are complaining to the entity that took their money promising to deliver value in return. Whether this entity handled providing said value themselves or whether they out-sourced it to another entity is of exactly zero relevance. Whether the inability to provide said value has to do with this entity being incapable of producing it, or whether this entity is incapable of finding business partners that are, is of exactly zero relevance.
There are definitely people directly blaming MLG for the lag, and they are flat out wrong. Whether you got your moneys worth is a completely different subject.
MLG hosts a tournament, the finals lag and cut out, and you're telling me that it's not MLG's fault at all?
Since this is a PPV event, I have a very high expectations for this event but I was truly disappointed. Here's why: •Lag issue I don't know if this is an ISP thing or whatever the hell you called it, but I experienced lag every 3 seconds (on Day 3) or so almost as if I'm watching a slideshow, its just really that bad. As for the record, I have watched MLG Anaheim, Raleigh, and Providence MLG streams and the amount of lags I was experiencing in this PPV event is so much more than the lags I experienced in MLG Anaheim, Raleigh, and Providence combined. The only suggestions I can give are either stick with the company that provide the stream last year because it clearly they're doing a much better job in providing lag-free stream or fix the issue that I doubt they will do. •Dim Lighting on Player There were times when the lighting on the players are too dim (red and blue lights), I can barely see the player's face on the webcam during the games. What's the point of having webcams when you can barely see their faces. I hope for a better lighting in the next event. •Observer Don't know what to say except the observer is very bad, misses a lot of stuff. Maybe for the next event, have one or two guys delicate to observing (like what gom did). •Price After I watched all the contents and stuff, I will say that the production value of this event is at $15 at max ($10 for gold); $7 at least no more less than that. But my preferable price would be $12 for non-gold; $10 for gold.
I would have like to see MLG make it less money but run some ads. I understand that the money upfront might be best for MLG but I think a hybrid solution would have made the most sense (I understand the one content stream had commercials).
On February 27 2012 09:25 enecateReAP wrote: I feel my IQ dropping from reading all the ill-thought out posts in here, especially when people are blaming MLG for the stream lag when it isn't them handling the streaming x.X; People just need to take a step back, either cool down and post something which actually contributes or login to reddit, there are many like you there.
(To add: I got 1080p without any lag for the first two days with minor lag on 3rd day)
Was very happy with the broadcast personally.
You should have posted BEFORE your IQ dropped, not after.
People are complaining to the entity that took their money promising to deliver value in return. Whether this entity handled providing said value themselves or whether they out-sourced it to another entity is of exactly zero relevance. Whether the inability to provide said value has to do with this entity being incapable of producing it, or whether this entity is incapable of finding business partners that are, is of exactly zero relevance.
There are definitely people directly blaming MLG for the lag, and they are flat out wrong. Whether you got your moneys worth is a completely different subject.
Once more: The people blaming MLG for the lag have every fucking right to do so. It's kind of a chain of command.
Improve the dr. pepper lounge stream for next one. It was basically useless all weekend, just showing people on couches with sparse interviews in between or random team games. Has so much more potential to provide more than what was shown.
I certainly echo the feedback others have given about the lag, I have absolutely no qualms with how you ran the tournament or how it was produced. The product you guys produced was excellent and well worth the price of admission.
However, you need to do proper testing of your streaming setup with Twitch, there are some major issues there. For every one of your qualifiers *and* every single episode of f*ck slasher I have been getting massive amounts of lag, whereas I for the rest of the day beforehand could watch any of the free pro streams in maximum quality without any lag whatsoever. I do expect a smooth viewing experience when I pay 20 dollars to watch a tournament, and I can only hope you guys work out whatever issues you are having with Twitch.
Even if the issues lie with them, the responsibility falls on you.
On February 27 2012 09:25 enecateReAP wrote: I feel my IQ dropping from reading all the ill-thought out posts in here, especially when people are blaming MLG for the stream lag when it isn't them handling the streaming x.X; People just need to take a step back, either cool down and post something which actually contributes or login to reddit, there are many like you there.
(To add: I got 1080p without any lag for the first two days with minor lag on 3rd day)
Was very happy with the broadcast personally.
You should have posted BEFORE your IQ dropped, not after.
People are complaining to the entity that took their money promising to deliver value in return. Whether this entity handled providing said value themselves or whether they out-sourced it to another entity is of exactly zero relevance. Whether the inability to provide said value has to do with this entity being incapable of producing it, or whether this entity is incapable of finding business partners that are, is of exactly zero relevance.
There are definitely people directly blaming MLG for the lag, and they are flat out wrong. Whether you got your moneys worth is a completely different subject.
Once more: The people blaming MLG for the lag have every fucking right to do so. It's kind of a chain of command.
This is how it works:
People -> $$$ -> MLG
MLG -> Lag -> People
People -> Shit -> MLG
And now a free piece of advice for MLG:
MLG -> $$$ -> Twitch
Twitch -> Lag -> MLG
MLG -> Shit -> Twitch
And certainly NOT:
People -> $$$ -> MLG
MLG -> $$$ -> Twitch
Twitch -> Lag -> MLG
MLG -> Lag -> People
People -> Pity -> MLG
People -> Shit -> Twitch
Exactly. If twitch lags, MLG just has to use something else.
Every single tournament using twitch has had lag issue at some point. So yes, MLG didn't do what is necessary to guarantee a lag free stream.
Now, using twitch is probably better than charging an extra 10$ to guarantee no lag. And since I'm not paying 20$ anyway, I can't really complain, but I really think tournaments should stop working with twitch.
- Lag on day 3 : This was really bad, i couldn't watch almost anything until the finals, and yes, it's MLG responsability cuz they provided no alternative. - Dedicated Observer : will really add some value to the streams with a dedicated observer. i'll even say focus more on 1-2 streams with twin casters and dedicated observers and leave the other 2 streams with single casters. - Anticlimatic Post Finals : You missed something at the end, it went kind of awkward at the end, you could have added some thing, idk, balloons popping out of the ceiling, fireworks on the back, a trophy or something
On February 10 2012 06:27 Lorch wrote: Instead of bitching about shitty broadcast times (which do suck for europeans) I used this cool invention called VOD for a few of those games and had a good time listening to the casting (keep in mind I only watched the casts with apollo thus far, can't really say anything about those with pumba (?) ). Maybe some more stats about players, their matchups, how they do on what map etc. (similiar to what gsl has been doing since this season) would be nice, but all in all I was pretty happy with the production quality in general, especially given that all of it was free in decent quality. I guess I'll be able to say more once I watch more as the korean qualifier is the one I care about the most by far.
VODs are no fuck, just like watching casted replays is no fun.
Watched it and i have to say that i'm not impressed.
Bad scheduling, laggy stream and many more things already mentioned. If this would have been a normal MLG i would not complain, but with the raised price my expectations also raised.
Next time i won't pay for it, if the price stays the same.
1) As was mentioned before, the lag on stream was really bad sometimes and this was the only thing that made me doubt the 20$ purchase. I know it was mainly a Twitch.tv problem, but you are partnering with them so it's your responsibility to provide a lag-free stream.
2) I was ok with paying 20$ now but I expect the next arena's to be priced better, around 10$ preferably.
Besides that, great event!
Also props on the timings on Sunday, was perfect for EU.
Twitch has the coolest and most awesome guys in the business and is a company you wish will do well but they really need to step up their work at major events. They partially ruined the first two days of DHW and 1080p and 720p was lagging like crazy yesterday and that's not ok if you've paid $20 for it. Admittedly I hadn't so I'm in no position to complain but it was a lesson learned for future PPV events.
In the end it's 100% MLG's or DH's responsibility to provide a watchable stream, I just hope Twitch is the company that can see to that for future events as well.
On February 10 2012 06:22 Ingebrigtsen wrote: I really liked the part were the broadcast was on when all the europeans were sleeping
This.
God forbid a US tournament would air at US times...
You're actually serious? Notice the date of the posts and the fact that they were talking about the EUROPEAN qualifier, which started at around 3am in EUROPE.... Nobodys complaining about the main event time slot....
I had one huge problem with this event. I live in Asia and Ive been following MLG for a long time. Since the games usually start some time around midnight and continue into noon I usually watch EVERYTHING the next day if I have the chance to. So I bought the PPV pass this weekend and it turned out I couldnt restream the event. VODs is fine and all but the hype around the game, the commentators talking about the players is just as important. I want an event, not just a set of games. I can go to youtube for that.
To me this is a big downgrade and I would really hope MLG can bring back the "watch it all" function form previous events. Paying 20 bucks for this kinda made me feel ripped off. I will proboably not pay for an MLG event until this is fixed since its such an important part of the event gone missing. Its simply not worth the time and money investment as it is.
Other than that it was ok despite the occasional lag on the VODs.
On February 27 2012 22:48 Robinsa wrote: I had one huge problem with this event. I live in Asia and Ive been following MLG for a long time. Since the games usually start some time around midnight and continue into noon I usually watch EVERYTHING the next day if I have the chance to. So I bought the PPV pass this weekend and it turned out I couldnt restream the event. VODs is fine and all but the hype around the game, the commentators talking about the players is just as important. I want an event, not just a set of games. I can go to youtube for that.
To me this is a big downgrade and I would really hope MLG can bring back the "watch it all" function form previous events. Paying 20 bucks for this kinda made me feel ripped off. I will proboably not pay for an MLG event until this is fixed since its such an important part of the event gone missing. Its simply not worth the time and money investment as it is.
Other than that it was ok despite the occasional lag on the VODs.
This is actually a valid complain, you should send an email to MLG concerning this issue.
I figured with all the varying feedback about lag and what not this weekend I would write about my weekend experience with MLGs Winter Arena.
After the announcement that the MLG Winter Arena was going to PPV I decided I would just wait to see the free preview on Friday before I made up my mind about buying a PPV pass. I wasn't too worried about it as I was already planning to go to Boulder Beers BarCraft on Sunday for the finals, but after seeing the production value and having Tastosis cast the first few games I caved into buying the pass as soon as the preview was done. I ended up watching the main stream all day at flawless 1080p and no lag.
I'm not sure if it made a difference but the MLG stream site (with quad view and the other special stuff) didn't even respond when I tried to do the test stream so I ended up just going to Twitch.tv for the preview and decided to subscribe and watch through them and their site all weekend.
On day two I woke up a little before the pre-show, tuned in and watched a few matches on the main stream before switching over to A1 for Tastosis casting the Losers Bracket. I then continued to watch Tastosis as they moved back to the main stream for the end of the day and was able to view all of it at 1080p and with no lag.
Day three came around and I woke up early with plans to carpool with a good friend up to Boulder for the BarCraft. He was running a little late so we stayed in Denver and watched the first match up on my TV with 1080p and no lag once again. After the game ended we quickly drove up to Boulder Beer to catch the matches up there. When we first went in everything seemed to be running fine so we grabbed a couple beers and found a seat to watch from. Sadly it began to lag almost right after we sat down. Pausing for 15 seconds and then running for 5 and things like that. However I figured this was due to Boulder Beers poor internet (using a phones 4G for bandwidth I believe). They then decided to try and fix the stream so they took it off all the TVs for a few minutes. This is when we decided to finish our beers, close out our tabs and make it back to Denver for the last few games. We got back and the stream was still running fine on my TV at 1080p.
The only lag I had all weekend was a slight video lag (audio was fine) on the main stream during game 3 of the finals. However once I realized the lag was on all the resolutions I simply switched to a different stream and muted it while keeping the audio going from the main stream at 240p. However the main stream suddenly died and I simply turned on the other streams volume and kept the main streams Twitch.tv page open. When the main stream came back, I heard Tastosis casting in the background and I just switched back to the main stream and closed the other one. After the quick shut down of the main stream I had no lag issues for the rest of the tournament.
All in all, I really enjoyed this MLG production and found it worth my $20. The main caster stage looked really nice and the main player stage looked freaking awesome. I really loved seeing the New York skyline throughout the tournament. I also really loved the "Nos Corner". Having a few other top casters giving more light to a game after its been played was great especially when they go into a replay during bigger down times. On that note the main casting line up was great. I loved seeing Nick, Dan, Marcus, JP and Rob cast together. I would personally like to see all these people invited back as I really enjoy all of their casting.
My one complaint is a small one. I would much rather like to see the VODs contain the casters intros and post game analysis with the Nos Corner. Not only is this content that I love to see but It would help show off the production when the VODs go free to watch.
Anyway, I figured I should add that I had a great experience watching directly through Twitch.tv with no lag and at 1080p all weekend. The production was great and I would definitely buy a PPV Arena like this again. Thanks to MLG and Twitch.tv for a great weekend of StarCraft
So, besides the tremendous lag yesterday that prevented me from watching any of the games (even 240p was freezing every few seconds, thanks twitch...), I got just now spoiled who won when I was heading to the Vod section on MLG's page. Great. Just great.
On February 28 2012 04:03 SovSov wrote: so are we still awaiting on an official message where they tell us how many tickets were bought?
Who says they are going to? They don't have too.
Sundance said there will be at least 2 more events.
They don't have to? Sure, they don't have to, but they would be massive douche bags if they didn't.
They called this a community experiment, they called it something we have to conform to in order to save eSports.
How can they just go about this all without telling us the RESULTS? They put the weight on OUR shoulders the least they could do is tell us how well we did.
On February 28 2012 04:03 SovSov wrote: so are we still awaiting on an official message where they tell us how many tickets were bought?
Who says they are going to? They don't have too.
Sundance said there will be at least 2 more events.
They don't have to? Sure, they don't have to, but they would be massive douche bags if they didn't.
They called this a community experiment, they called it something we have to conform to in order to save eSports.
How can they just go about this all without telling us the RESULTS? They put the weight on OUR shoulders the least they could do is tell us how well we did.
Oh wow,
I gave MLG a lot of shit for this, uhm, "Community Experiment" as you call it, but I guess people like you prove them right. It's gullible people like you who make blatant lying an actually viable and profitable business decision for MLG.
What I'm about to tell you is probably going to hurt in a way that you haven't felt since your parents told you that there is no Santa Claus.
MLG did not want you to "conform in order to save eSports". MLG don't care about "saving eSports". MLG just wanted you to conform, period. They took your money not for the betterment of whatever arbitrary ideal. They took your money because they're a business.
There's one way and one way only that they release actual numbers from the weekend, and that is if they think that doing so will in one way or another benefit them financially. Certainly not to pacify the gullible people who bought into their "saving eSports charity bullshit".
On February 28 2012 04:03 SovSov wrote: so are we still awaiting on an official message where they tell us how many tickets were bought?
Who says they are going to? They don't have too.
Sundance said there will be at least 2 more events.
They don't have to? Sure, they don't have to, but they would be massive douche bags if they didn't.
They called this a community experiment, they called it something we have to conform to in order to save eSports.
How can they just go about this all without telling us the RESULTS? They put the weight on OUR shoulders the least they could do is tell us how well we did.
Oh wow,
I gave MLG a lot of shit for this, uhm, "Community Experiment" as you call it, but I guess people like you prove them right. It's gullible people like you who make blatant lying an actually viable and profitable business decision for MLG.
What I'm about to tell you is probably going to hurt in a way that you haven't felt since your parents told you that there is no Santa Claus.
MLG did not want you to "conform in order to save eSports". MLG don't care about "saving eSports". MLG just wanted you to conform, period. They took your money not for the betterment of whatever arbitrary ideal. They took your money because they're a business.
There's one way and one way only that they release actual numbers from the weekend, and that is if they think that doing so will in one way or another benefit them financially. Certainly not to pacify the gullible people who bought into their "saving eSports charity bullshit".
Haha, it's cute how you think you're so smart but maybe you should go read more into Sundance interviews and anouncments before attempting a post like that. Everything in my post are things that have come out of Sundance's own mouth. What you said is true but out of context with all the things MLG claimed this was. If they wanted us to not expect results then they shouldn't have used phrases such as "community experiment" and "saving eSports".
- Structure the pre-game and post-game bits of the show, and have more produced content for it. The panel format was great but will work even better with some structure. - Create a TV mode for the viewer (where the controls are the appropriate size for viewing on a TV) - Do the next one in a proper TV studio with a live audience - I know some games had a dedicated observer, but at least the main stream should always have that
Briefly said: - 1080p was unwatchable. 720p was mostly okay past the first day. (Yes, I was always on a connection that could handle it.) Central Europe, usual Twitch.tv problem. - Caster pairing. Just mixing casters randomly because they are all established names just isn't good, really. Good ol' "analytical + entertaining/emphatic" should be easy enough to follow, even when you need rotation to balance the workload. - Observing. ST_Legend can't be everywhere, but US events should start training a western version of him.
On February 28 2012 04:03 SovSov wrote: so are we still awaiting on an official message where they tell us how many tickets were bought?
Who says they are going to? They don't have too.
Sundance said there will be at least 2 more events.
They don't have to? Sure, they don't have to, but they would be massive douche bags if they didn't.
They called this a community experiment, they called it something we have to conform to in order to save eSports.
How can they just go about this all without telling us the RESULTS? They put the weight on OUR shoulders the least they could do is tell us how well we did.
Oh wow,
I gave MLG a lot of shit for this, uhm, "Community Experiment" as you call it, but I guess people like you prove them right. It's gullible people like you who make blatant lying an actually viable and profitable business decision for MLG.
What I'm about to tell you is probably going to hurt in a way that you haven't felt since your parents told you that there is no Santa Claus.
MLG did not want you to "conform in order to save eSports". MLG don't care about "saving eSports". MLG just wanted you to conform, period. They took your money not for the betterment of whatever arbitrary ideal. They took your money because they're a business.
There's one way and one way only that they release actual numbers from the weekend, and that is if they think that doing so will in one way or another benefit them financially. Certainly not to pacify the gullible people who bought into their "saving eSports charity bullshit".
Haha, it's cute how you think you're so smart but maybe you should go read more into Sundance interviews and anouncments before attempting a post like that. Everything in my post are things that have come out of Sundance's own mouth. What you said is true but out of context with all the things MLG claimed this was. If they wanted us to not expect results then they shouldn't have used phrases such as "community experiment" and "saving eSports".
So everything I said is true, albeit out of context with all the things MLG claimed this was? I also said that they blatantly lied, and that gullible people like you bought into these lies. I am in no way at all shocked that people like you expect results after hearing phrases such as "community experiment" and "saving eSports".
The casting and games were great. The stream needs work. It doesn't matter how good the show is if the stream is terrible.
For some reason MLG's stream always gives me problems. I can watch players streaming from TL all day without a hitch, but as soon as I turn on an MLG stream the problems start. I don't know why, maybe some tech nerd can help me out.
And it really sucked when MKP won and all I could hear was ....
... silence.
Get some music or something to play when the champ is crowned or it feels very anti climactic.
Really enjoyed the event, thanks to the MLG team for all the hard work. Not sure if this has been said, but I'd really like for post-game commentary to be included in game VODs, as it is for GSL.
Two reasons for this. First, the added video length is kind of an anti-spoiler. Second, I really enjoyed the post-game commentary, particularly the heavy analysis on the C stream. And since there were times when I would watch a secondary-stream game and catch the C-stream game later, I'd really like to be able to see the (very nicely produced!) post-game analysis.
One other thing: for those of us with slow internet connections, a pause button on the layout would be nice, so that I don't have to close out the whole window (with schedule/chat/updates/etc.) to stop the stream.
On February 28 2012 09:59 Crake_ wrote: Really enjoyed the event, thanks to the MLG team for all the hard work. Not sure if this has been said, but I'd really like for post-game commentary to be included in game VODs, as it is for GSL.
Two reasons for this. First, the added video length is kind of an anti-spoiler. Second, I really enjoyed the post-game commentary, particularly the heavy analysis on the C stream. And since there were times when I would watch a secondary-stream game and catch the C-stream game later, I'd really like to be able to see the (very nicely produced!) post-game analysis.
One other thing: for those of us with slow internet connections, a pause button on the layout would be nice, so that I don't have to close out the whole window (with schedule/chat/updates/etc.) to stop the stream.
Thanks!
I second this. I like hearing the post game chat as well -- it's part of the game as far as I'm concerned.
Image quality on the stream was awesome, those colors! I have no idea why they look so vivid comparing to other tournaments. No lag what so ever 1080p.
Observing was horrible at times, but I don't think you need a dedicated observer for the event. Sometimes it's even worse when the observer is following something and the commentator is speaking of totally different stuff. Watched Assembly the same weekend and TB(?) handled the observing just fine. Also this might be just my opinion, but what the f is constant zooming and changing the camera angle during the battles? Just because the inferface allows you to do it doesn't mean it adds something to "production value".
The ESPN-style ticker at the bottom should be constantly running and cycle through the scores of all the matches that are going on. I’d also love to see a little snippet that told me what matches was broadcast on which streams. It got a little confusing to follow 4 simultaneous matches.
Please update the bracket system. Or link to the Liquipedia bracket.
The schedule tab was updated very late on Saturday. I would love to see a real-time schedule.
I wish there was more prepared content that could be shown on the Dr. Pepper stream. Those little videos about certain players were awesome. I want more of that. And less dubstep listening/couch watching.
The price was a little steep considering this was the 1st PPV event. I would love to see the price scaled back to $10 in the future. Or create a subscription similar to the IPL setup. Maybe something tied into the Gold Membership that isn't a discount.
Please make it more obvious where the stream is on the MLG website and where to login.
Please please please stop the rotating cameras. It’s incredibly distracting and annoying. I almost threw something at Robin's stream.
But overall, great tournament! The setup was really really slick.
I was pretty disappointed by this MLG to be honest. I did pay the $20 which is a pretty big investment for someone like me. Apart from the four streams and the 1080p, there wasn't a whole lot else to this event.. it just didn't have much of an atmosphere/storylines/hype, which was illustrated pretty well at the end of the final when Tastosis didn't really know what to do/say... I think without a crowd MLG is just any other tournament with extra streams.
And plus couldn't other people watch the vods for free?
The games were good and whatever nothing wrong with that, but I found ASUS ROG to be a more enjoyable tournament.
MLG has done an incredible job with the Winter Championship. The streams are great quality with very little lag and the production quality is very well done. One thing I have noticed is the lack of in-game statistics being displayed at the beginning of each match (as done by the GSL). It would be interesting to see match-up win rates, previous build choices on the chosen map etc.
Events like this help me learn and develop as a player as I climb the ladder. Thank you!
EPT![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/thumb/d/df/MLG_actual.png/500px-MLG_actual.png)
).
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) but as a casting team I feel like they really lack the energy that is provided by someone like Day9, Husky, or Tasteless.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IbIMQ.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xjHZE.jpg)
CHOSE to sound and look like ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XaHhL.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lpJRB.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/gzajB.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5ICio.png)
