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On February 03 2012 04:11 sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 04:03 dAPhREAk wrote:On February 03 2012 04:00 Teejing wrote:
Sounds pretty illegal to me. Any Lawer interested to share his wisom with us? not going to do any specific research so take it with a grain of salt. in California, US, it would be considered a breach of contract (unless there is a term stating they can change their terms at any time for a full refund; i'm not reading the TOC), and arguably its a violation of California's Unfair Competition Law, Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code section 17200 because its an unfair business practice (most likely a bait and switch, but also potentially other violations). may also be a violation of the consumer legal remedies act as well. what is ironic about this whole thing is that my mlg membership page still says i am entitled to HQ through April 2014. so, all i have to do is take a screenshot and mlg is fucking in hot water if they get sued. don't be stupid. first off they're based in NY so all cali law doesn't matter. If you want to look for a legal route start reading this. https://accounts.majorleaguegaming.com/membership_terms_of_serviceFun fact TOS's are every companies best friend. People don't read them and they pretty much protect them in any case.
Except changing your terms without option for refund (which is this. a post on some forum isnt worth anything legally) is illegal.
They can chance the terms. they cant force you to accept them and pay them for it.
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On February 03 2012 04:05 MLG_Adam wrote:Anyone that wants a refund that renewed with the assumption they would get Columbus HQ will receive a refund per Kyle's post: For those of you who are less than excited by this change, as you renewed recently with the understanding that you would be able to watch our Columbus Championship Event in HD, please submit an e-mail through https://support.majorleaguegaming.com/customer/portal/emails/new with your MLG Username and we will happily refund your $9.99 as long as it was set to expire after our Columbus Championship Event (meaning your last renewal must have been on or after December 23rd).
Whether people can refund their money or not.
U guys should announce such things 3 months in advance, and auto-renewing when u are changing the package? come on man
Just changing it is a dickmove.
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I too just had mine auto-renewed and sent an email asking for a refund.
MLG promptly responded that they had issued the refund. I don't like the change, nor the timing, but their customer service was good.
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On February 03 2012 03:56 Boblhead wrote:
MLG is fucking retarded, changing terms for ppl who had purchased the Silver pass for those who want to watch just HD streams without having to do anything else with MLG it was the perfect compromise. We all know MLG hit the shit when they started laying off tons of people the whole "This year has been such a success was a total fucking lie. if they were actually doing good and "Had" a good year I think they would of given more benefits to those who actually purchased tickets. But Sundance and his crew are just shitting on the fans who supported MLG even though their casters fucking suck. From now on I will only be watching Russian HQ restreams. This is just fucking retarded.
MLG has lost my support and the $40 i had set for this years silver passes. Getting rid of the HQ streams was probably the stupidest thing you did.
Reading this actually made my head hurt it's so wrong. MLG didn't "hit the shit" at all, they cut everyone that wasn't necessary. Paying more money for stuff you don't need (or isn't bringing a profit) is a waste.
And no, they aren't "shitting on the fans" either, they're restructuring almost everything that has to do with MLG, not just the payment plans. They handled it pretty poorly, but you're blowing it WAY out of proportion. And as for the casters sucking, what? They have arguably the best casters out there, I can't name a tournament that has better casters to be honest.
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On February 03 2012 04:13 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 04:11 sermokala wrote:On February 03 2012 04:03 dAPhREAk wrote:On February 03 2012 04:00 Teejing wrote:
Sounds pretty illegal to me. Any Lawer interested to share his wisom with us? not going to do any specific research so take it with a grain of salt. in California, US, it would be considered a breach of contract (unless there is a term stating they can change their terms at any time for a full refund; i'm not reading the TOC), and arguably its a violation of California's Unfair Competition Law, Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code section 17200 because its an unfair business practice (most likely a bait and switch, but also potentially other violations). may also be a violation of the consumer legal remedies act as well. what is ironic about this whole thing is that my mlg membership page still says i am entitled to HQ through April 2014. so, all i have to do is take a screenshot and mlg is fucking in hot water if they get sued. don't be stupid. first off they're based in NY so all cali law doesn't matter. If you want to look for a legal route start reading this. https://accounts.majorleaguegaming.com/membership_terms_of_serviceFun fact TOS's are every companies best friend. People don't read them and they pretty much protect them in any case. Except changing your terms without option for refund (which is this. a post on some forum isnt worth anything legally) is illegal. They can chance the terms. they cant force you to accept them and pay them for it.
I'm not sure you read the tos. I looked it over a little bit and lookie here
BY SUBSCRIBING TO A MEMBERSHIP PROGRAM, YOU OR, IF YOU ARE THE PARENT OR LEGAL GUARDIAN OF A MEMBER WHO IS A MINOR, HEREBY AGREE TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS SET FORTH IN THIS AGREEMENT AND IN MAJOR LEAGUE GAMING’S TERMS OF SERVICE.MLG RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE OR MODIFY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AT ANY TIME AND WITHOUT NOTICE.
its literaly a few lines down on that link. Don't talk shit about legalities without knowing anything at all about stuff.
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Thx mate, didnt realise the change when they charged me...
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On February 03 2012 04:16 sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 04:13 Gorsameth wrote:On February 03 2012 04:11 sermokala wrote:On February 03 2012 04:03 dAPhREAk wrote:On February 03 2012 04:00 Teejing wrote:
Sounds pretty illegal to me. Any Lawer interested to share his wisom with us? not going to do any specific research so take it with a grain of salt. in California, US, it would be considered a breach of contract (unless there is a term stating they can change their terms at any time for a full refund; i'm not reading the TOC), and arguably its a violation of California's Unfair Competition Law, Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code section 17200 because its an unfair business practice (most likely a bait and switch, but also potentially other violations). may also be a violation of the consumer legal remedies act as well. what is ironic about this whole thing is that my mlg membership page still says i am entitled to HQ through April 2014. so, all i have to do is take a screenshot and mlg is fucking in hot water if they get sued. don't be stupid. first off they're based in NY so all cali law doesn't matter. If you want to look for a legal route start reading this. https://accounts.majorleaguegaming.com/membership_terms_of_serviceFun fact TOS's are every companies best friend. People don't read them and they pretty much protect them in any case. Except changing your terms without option for refund (which is this. a post on some forum isnt worth anything legally) is illegal. They can chance the terms. they cant force you to accept them and pay them for it. I'm not sure you read the tos. I looked it over a little bit and lookie here Show nested quote +BY SUBSCRIBING TO A MEMBERSHIP PROGRAM, YOU OR, IF YOU ARE THE PARENT OR LEGAL GUARDIAN OF A MEMBER WHO IS A MINOR, HEREBY AGREE TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS SET FORTH IN THIS AGREEMENT AND IN MAJOR LEAGUE GAMING’S TERMS OF SERVICE.MLG RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE OR MODIFY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AT ANY TIME AND WITHOUT NOTICE. its literaly a few lines down on that link. Don't talk shit about legalities without knowing anything at all about stuff.
They can put in the ToS that they can kill you but that doesnt make it any less then murder...
Basic consumer right cannot be overwriten by a ToS. any statement saying otherwise looks nice as an attempt to keep people from getting there right but will not hold up for even 1 second in court.
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Why in the world would MLG start inconveniencing customers at the start of a year like this right before an event. Just eat the freaking difference which would be 2 months at most and say through you're good will you'll be providing HD access until the next renewal date where they would have to buy a gold pass for HD. Bam, people think you're being generous and aren't inconveniencing them and you build some more good will at the cost of 1-2 dollars per silver subscriber.
All they did with this is piss off a lot of people and lose potential subscribers that don't want to be around the next time MLG decides to change things up. Gotta wonder who makes these decisions.
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This is actually pretty shocking. You don't charge people for something and then say "Actually, we're not going to give it to you". You can't take money for a service which you then don't give, and you really can't only refund for not following through on your side of the contract if your client specifically asks you. Pretty terrible all round by MLG. I'm not a subscriber myself, and this makes me glad, because this is just abysmal service management.
Regarding legality, this may be legal in the US, I don't know, but I know it's not legal in the UK, and as the contract is (by UK law) made in the UK by British citizens, it most certainly isn't legal for MLG to do this to their British customers. No idea on the rest of the world, but I expect this is also the case for some of the rest of it.
But really, the legality is irrelevant - you don't treat customers like this.
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On February 03 2012 04:21 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 04:16 sermokala wrote:On February 03 2012 04:13 Gorsameth wrote:On February 03 2012 04:11 sermokala wrote:On February 03 2012 04:03 dAPhREAk wrote:On February 03 2012 04:00 Teejing wrote:
Sounds pretty illegal to me. Any Lawer interested to share his wisom with us? not going to do any specific research so take it with a grain of salt. in California, US, it would be considered a breach of contract (unless there is a term stating they can change their terms at any time for a full refund; i'm not reading the TOC), and arguably its a violation of California's Unfair Competition Law, Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code section 17200 because its an unfair business practice (most likely a bait and switch, but also potentially other violations). may also be a violation of the consumer legal remedies act as well. what is ironic about this whole thing is that my mlg membership page still says i am entitled to HQ through April 2014. so, all i have to do is take a screenshot and mlg is fucking in hot water if they get sued. don't be stupid. first off they're based in NY so all cali law doesn't matter. If you want to look for a legal route start reading this. https://accounts.majorleaguegaming.com/membership_terms_of_serviceFun fact TOS's are every companies best friend. People don't read them and they pretty much protect them in any case. Except changing your terms without option for refund (which is this. a post on some forum isnt worth anything legally) is illegal. They can chance the terms. they cant force you to accept them and pay them for it. I'm not sure you read the tos. I looked it over a little bit and lookie here BY SUBSCRIBING TO A MEMBERSHIP PROGRAM, YOU OR, IF YOU ARE THE PARENT OR LEGAL GUARDIAN OF A MEMBER WHO IS A MINOR, HEREBY AGREE TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS SET FORTH IN THIS AGREEMENT AND IN MAJOR LEAGUE GAMING’S TERMS OF SERVICE.MLG RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE OR MODIFY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AT ANY TIME AND WITHOUT NOTICE. its literaly a few lines down on that link. Don't talk shit about legalities without knowing anything at all about stuff. They can put in the ToS that they can kill you but that doesnt make it any less then murder... Basic consumer right cannot be overwriten by a ToS. any statement saying otherwise looks nice as an attempt to keep people from getting there right but will not hold up for even 1 second in court.
You don't get it. It is legal what can't you understand about this? An NY court will rule in favor of MLG if you really want to go for it. by getting silver you agreed to the whole thing. Let me say that again. You are okay with this by having silver at any point.
On February 03 2012 04:22 FuzzyJAM wrote:Regarding legality, this may be legal in the US, I don't know, but I know it's not legal in the UK, and as the contract is (by UK law) made in the UK by British citizens, it most certainly isn't legal for MLG to do this to their British customers. No idea on the rest of the world, but I expect this is also the case for some of the rest of it.
But really, the legality is irrelevant - you don't treat customers like this.
The AGREEMENT is governed by the laws of NY. Its not a contract in any case.
But you are right on that second part this whole thing is really silly. gold members should have gotten an email on the new things that they where getting and a change to mlgs account services should have been annouced on the site.
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On February 03 2012 04:21 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 04:16 sermokala wrote:On February 03 2012 04:13 Gorsameth wrote:On February 03 2012 04:11 sermokala wrote:On February 03 2012 04:03 dAPhREAk wrote:On February 03 2012 04:00 Teejing wrote:
Sounds pretty illegal to me. Any Lawer interested to share his wisom with us? not going to do any specific research so take it with a grain of salt. in California, US, it would be considered a breach of contract (unless there is a term stating they can change their terms at any time for a full refund; i'm not reading the TOC), and arguably its a violation of California's Unfair Competition Law, Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code section 17200 because its an unfair business practice (most likely a bait and switch, but also potentially other violations). may also be a violation of the consumer legal remedies act as well. what is ironic about this whole thing is that my mlg membership page still says i am entitled to HQ through April 2014. so, all i have to do is take a screenshot and mlg is fucking in hot water if they get sued. don't be stupid. first off they're based in NY so all cali law doesn't matter. If you want to look for a legal route start reading this. https://accounts.majorleaguegaming.com/membership_terms_of_serviceFun fact TOS's are every companies best friend. People don't read them and they pretty much protect them in any case. Except changing your terms without option for refund (which is this. a post on some forum isnt worth anything legally) is illegal. They can chance the terms. they cant force you to accept them and pay them for it. I'm not sure you read the tos. I looked it over a little bit and lookie here BY SUBSCRIBING TO A MEMBERSHIP PROGRAM, YOU OR, IF YOU ARE THE PARENT OR LEGAL GUARDIAN OF A MEMBER WHO IS A MINOR, HEREBY AGREE TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS SET FORTH IN THIS AGREEMENT AND IN MAJOR LEAGUE GAMING’S TERMS OF SERVICE.MLG RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE OR MODIFY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AT ANY TIME AND WITHOUT NOTICE. its literaly a few lines down on that link. Don't talk shit about legalities without knowing anything at all about stuff. They can put in the ToS that they can kill you but that doesnt make it any less then murder... Basic consumer right cannot be overwriten by a ToS. any statement saying otherwise looks nice as an attempt to keep people from getting there right but will not hold up for even 1 second in court.
#2
pretty much that
first thing you learn in university is, that nearly all ToS are somehow against the laws and the companies wont win anything with them @ court (at least in Germany).
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United States123 Posts
Again, anyone who bought Silver Membership solely for HD video can request a refund here:
https://support.majorleaguegaming.com/customer/portal/emails/new
Prior to our first Championship of the year, we will have products available for those who are interested only in watching HD live streams. In the end, our product listing for 2012 will be much clearer and allow fans to pay only for the features they are interested in at a fair price. No more paying for GameBattles features if all you want is video, and vice versa.
Thank you
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On February 03 2012 04:27 MLG-Kyle wrote:Again, anyone who bought Silver Membership solely for HD video can request a refund here: https://support.majorleaguegaming.com/customer/portal/emails/new Prior to our first Championship of the year, we will have products available for those who are interested only in watching HD live streams. In the end, our product listing for 2012 will be much clearer and allow fans to pay only for the features they are interested in at a fair price. No more paying for GameBattles features if all you want is video, and vice versa. Thank you
sounds good, that's what i wanted to know
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So yeah...this is pretty damn terrible. Been Silver sub for about a year but just cancelled it now, screw that.
Shall wait and see what the above post talking about 'paying for features you want' is referencing but I wont hold my breath.
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There it goes, I didnt mind playing every 3 months, but I doubt Ill pay for a full year.
Really a bummer for a big part of the customers.
No one cares about gamebatles or whatever that is. I want to Watch my Starcraft.
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On February 03 2012 04:11 sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 04:03 dAPhREAk wrote:On February 03 2012 04:00 Teejing wrote:
Sounds pretty illegal to me. Any Lawer interested to share his wisom with us? not going to do any specific research so take it with a grain of salt. in California, US, it would be considered a breach of contract (unless there is a term stating they can change their terms at any time for a full refund; i'm not reading the TOC), and arguably its a violation of California's Unfair Competition Law, Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code section 17200 because its an unfair business practice (most likely a bait and switch, but also potentially other violations). may also be a violation of the consumer legal remedies act as well. what is ironic about this whole thing is that my mlg membership page still says i am entitled to HQ through April 2014. so, all i have to do is take a screenshot and mlg is fucking in hot water if they get sued. don't be stupid. first off they're based in NY so all cali law doesn't matter. If you want to look for a legal route start reading this. https://accounts.majorleaguegaming.com/membership_terms_of_serviceFun fact TOS's are every companies best friend. People don't read them and they pretty much protect them in any case.
"don't be stupid." unless there is an enforceable choice of law clause in the TOS, which California courts love to refuse to enforce in adhesive contracts (like the TOS in this case), California law applies for persons injured in California. moreover, california and new york law are very similar, so it wouldn't matter in any case.
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Wow, talk about ridiculous...seems like they are doing a great job, read the whole post plz...and all the legal posts lmao, even if it was illegal, are you gonna pay 100s of dollars (minimum) in legal fees to get 10bucks back?
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On February 03 2012 04:25 sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 04:21 Gorsameth wrote:On February 03 2012 04:16 sermokala wrote:On February 03 2012 04:13 Gorsameth wrote:On February 03 2012 04:11 sermokala wrote:On February 03 2012 04:03 dAPhREAk wrote:On February 03 2012 04:00 Teejing wrote:
Sounds pretty illegal to me. Any Lawer interested to share his wisom with us? not going to do any specific research so take it with a grain of salt. in California, US, it would be considered a breach of contract (unless there is a term stating they can change their terms at any time for a full refund; i'm not reading the TOC), and arguably its a violation of California's Unfair Competition Law, Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code section 17200 because its an unfair business practice (most likely a bait and switch, but also potentially other violations). may also be a violation of the consumer legal remedies act as well. what is ironic about this whole thing is that my mlg membership page still says i am entitled to HQ through April 2014. so, all i have to do is take a screenshot and mlg is fucking in hot water if they get sued. don't be stupid. first off they're based in NY so all cali law doesn't matter. If you want to look for a legal route start reading this. Fun fact TOS's are every companies best friend. People don't read them and they pretty much protect them in any case. Except changing your terms without option for refund (which is this. a post on some forum isnt worth anything legally) is illegal. They can chance the terms. they cant force you to accept them and pay them for it. I'm not sure you read the tos. I looked it over a little bit and lookie here BY SUBSCRIBING TO A MEMBERSHIP PROGRAM, YOU OR, IF YOU ARE THE PARENT OR LEGAL GUARDIAN OF A MEMBER WHO IS A MINOR, HEREBY AGREE TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS SET FORTH IN THIS AGREEMENT AND IN MAJOR LEAGUE GAMING’S TERMS OF SERVICE.MLG RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE OR MODIFY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AT ANY TIME AND WITHOUT NOTICE. its literaly a few lines down on that link. Don't talk shit about legalities without knowing anything at all about stuff. They can put in the ToS that they can kill you but that doesnt make it any less then murder... Basic consumer right cannot be overwriten by a ToS. any statement saying otherwise looks nice as an attempt to keep people from getting there right but will not hold up for even 1 second in court. You don't get it. It is legal what can't you understand about this? An NY court will rule in favor of MLG if you really want to go for it. by getting silver you agreed to the whole thing. Let me say that again. You are okay with this by having silver at any point. Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 04:22 FuzzyJAM wrote:Regarding legality, this may be legal in the US, I don't know, but I know it's not legal in the UK, and as the contract is (by UK law) made in the UK by British citizens, it most certainly isn't legal for MLG to do this to their British customers. No idea on the rest of the world, but I expect this is also the case for some of the rest of it.
But really, the legality is irrelevant - you don't treat customers like this. The AGREEMENT is governed by the laws of NY. Its not a contract in any case.
I'm sorry but you're simply wrong. British law has UCTA 1977 and ECR 2002. They are very clear. Most of Europe has similar laws. MLG has committed something illegal in the UK and other countries, regardless of whether they have committed anything illegal in the US.
No offence, but the fact that you think it's not a contract suggests that you probably shouldn't be trying to speak about legal matters.
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On February 03 2012 04:25 sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 04:21 Gorsameth wrote:On February 03 2012 04:16 sermokala wrote:On February 03 2012 04:13 Gorsameth wrote:On February 03 2012 04:11 sermokala wrote:On February 03 2012 04:03 dAPhREAk wrote:On February 03 2012 04:00 Teejing wrote:
Sounds pretty illegal to me. Any Lawer interested to share his wisom with us? not going to do any specific research so take it with a grain of salt. in California, US, it would be considered a breach of contract (unless there is a term stating they can change their terms at any time for a full refund; i'm not reading the TOC), and arguably its a violation of California's Unfair Competition Law, Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code section 17200 because its an unfair business practice (most likely a bait and switch, but also potentially other violations). may also be a violation of the consumer legal remedies act as well. what is ironic about this whole thing is that my mlg membership page still says i am entitled to HQ through April 2014. so, all i have to do is take a screenshot and mlg is fucking in hot water if they get sued. don't be stupid. first off they're based in NY so all cali law doesn't matter. If you want to look for a legal route start reading this. https://accounts.majorleaguegaming.com/membership_terms_of_serviceFun fact TOS's are every companies best friend. People don't read them and they pretty much protect them in any case. Except changing your terms without option for refund (which is this. a post on some forum isnt worth anything legally) is illegal. They can chance the terms. they cant force you to accept them and pay them for it. I'm not sure you read the tos. I looked it over a little bit and lookie here BY SUBSCRIBING TO A MEMBERSHIP PROGRAM, YOU OR, IF YOU ARE THE PARENT OR LEGAL GUARDIAN OF A MEMBER WHO IS A MINOR, HEREBY AGREE TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS SET FORTH IN THIS AGREEMENT AND IN MAJOR LEAGUE GAMING’S TERMS OF SERVICE.MLG RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE OR MODIFY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AT ANY TIME AND WITHOUT NOTICE. its literaly a few lines down on that link. Don't talk shit about legalities without knowing anything at all about stuff. They can put in the ToS that they can kill you but that doesnt make it any less then murder... Basic consumer right cannot be overwriten by a ToS. any statement saying otherwise looks nice as an attempt to keep people from getting there right but will not hold up for even 1 second in court. You don't get it. It is legal what can't you understand about this? An NY court will rule in favor of MLG if you really want to go for it. by getting silver you agreed to the whole thing. Let me say that again. You are okay with this by having silver at any point. Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 04:22 FuzzyJAM wrote:Regarding legality, this may be legal in the US, I don't know, but I know it's not legal in the UK, and as the contract is (by UK law) made in the UK by British citizens, it most certainly isn't legal for MLG to do this to their British customers. No idea on the rest of the world, but I expect this is also the case for some of the rest of it.
But really, the legality is irrelevant - you don't treat customers like this. The AGREEMENT is governed by the laws of NY. Its not a contract in any case. But you are right on that second part this whole thing is really silly. gold members should have gotten an email on the new things that they where getting and a change to mlgs account services should have been annouced on the site.
are you a lawyer? i have been a california lawyer since 2005, and have practiced cases with new york law. our client, General Electric, loves to put new york choice of law provisions in their contracts.
your reading of the contract is completely off-base. they cant change the terms and say "too fucking bad, we are keeping your money." also, just because its in the contract doesn't mean that it doesn't violate other laws (i.e., the consumer legal remedies act, the unfair competition law, etc.). thats the whole reason why the laws were made; so companies couldn't fucking hide behind contract language.
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So, can anyone explain this to me in simple english, please?
I got this free silver account through that Hot Pocket thing. The system says that my "membership will not be renewed when your current term ends on August 26, 2011".
So my membership is basically over, isn't it?
Will I be charged after Feb 7th?
Do I have to cancel my membership anywhere to not to be charged?
I don't want to pay any money. I don't care if I won't be able to watch MLG in HD anymore. I just don't want to pay anything.
So?
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EPT
