As the start of the 2012 Season approaches, we are in the process of refining our premium product offering in order to bring you the best experience possible. As part of this reorganization, we have decided to remove Silver Membership from our product offering.
On Tuesday, February 7th, all MLG Silver Members will be transitioned into our newest product, GameBattles Premium Access. The product features are as follows:
Premium Ladder Support Premium Avatar Skin Access to a Premium Online Tournament each Month Access to the Members-only Forum Customization Option - Save Match Settings First priority to Beta Tests Season Prizing for Premium Ladders Premium Trophies and Badges
The 3 month recurring price of this new product is $12.99.
Your next scheduled renewal will be for GameBattles Premium Access and you will be charged $12.99.
If you do not wish to be billed for GameBattles Premium Access on your next billing cycle, you must cancel your membership before your next scheduled renewal. You may do so on your profile page after logging into your account: https://accounts.majorleaguegaming.com/account/membership
GameBattles Premium Access does not include any access to HD video. For those of you who are also interested in watching MLG Pro Circuit Championships in HD online, we recommend you check out the MLG Gold Membership Card, which is available at GameStop and Toys "R" Us stores nationwide. For $30, you'll get access to an entire year of Pro Circuit Championship livestreams in HD and an entire year of GameBattles Premium Access.
Thank you for your continued support of Major League Gaming. We are very excited to get GameBattles Premium Access in your hands next week! If you have any questions about GameBattles Premium Access, Silver Membership, or how this affects your account, please send us an e-mail at membership@mlgpro.com
Sincerely, The MLG Product Team
I am kind of pissed about this. The one and only reason I bought an MLG membership in the first place was to watch Starcraft 2 MLG events in HD. That is it. I don't care about any other perk. And now in 5 days I don't even get that?
I sent MLG an email asking for some clarification and, if I am right in reading this, a refund - I will update the OP when I hear back. Despite the issues, the customer service was excellent and my refund should show up in my bank account in a few days. I imagine many people here are in the same boat as me. I just renewed last week and had I known about these changes I surely would have opted for the Gold Membership or cancelled my membership.
Mod Edit
For those of you who are less than excited by this change, as you renewed recently with the understanding that you would be able to watch our Columbus Championship Event in HD, please submit an e-mail through https://support.majorleaguegaming.com/customer/portal/emails/new with your MLG Username and we will happily refund your $9.99 as long as it was set to expire after our Columbus Championship Event (meaning your last renewal must have been on or after December 23rd).
The goal with our product lineup for 2012 is to enable our fans to pay for exactly what they want. In 2011, our products were very convoluted and bundled GameBattles and video features together. We've found our audience tends to only care about one or the other, so we're restructuring our products in order to facilitate those wants.
Our Silver Membership was one of the biggest culprits. We found that there was about a 70%-30% split in terms of the product. A large majority of Silver Members were using the pass to compete on GameBattles, while another significant portion of Silver Members only cared about watching MLG Video in HD.
In order to set fair prices for our products, we need to create products let users pay for only the features they are interested in. That is why we are removing Silver Membership and replacing it with products that focus specifically on one interest.
As I said above, most of our Silver Members were interested in competing on GameBattles. Rather than force every single user to sign up for a brand new product, we thought it would be best to message our users in advance of the change and give them the option to opt out of the membership moving forward.
We're still in the process of refining our product listing for 2012, and this is just the beginning. For those of you who are interested in video, rest assured, there will be products released specifically to suit your interests. In the meantime, I suggest you opt out of renewals on this product moving forward.
For those of you who are less than excited by this change, as you renewed recently with the understanding that you would be able to watch our Columbus Championship Event in HD, please submit an e-mail through https://support.majorleaguegaming.com/customer/portal/emails/new with your MLG Username and we will happily refund your $9.99 as long as it was set to expire after our Columbus Championship Event (meaning your last renewal must have been on or after December 23rd).
In the end, our goal is to make our products easier to understand, and allow you to pay for exactly what you are interested without any fluff. This is the beginning of the process that will allow us to do that.
Good thing I didn't renew my silver membership at the end of last year. Sucks for all current silver subscribers though Guess I'll get myself a gold membership for this year then.
Gettin' dat money. What the hell will I do with Avatar skins, online tournaments and f'ing badges/trophies? This is not Call of Duty... So a year of the new gamebattles thingy comes in at $52 and the same + gold is $30. I guess they didn't make enough money with the silver memberships so now they have to make up things to make it seem worth getting the gold. Also getting the gold instead of silver meant absolutely nothing to Europeans so I guess that's another reason why they needed to change it, not for the better, but for more money
if you got silver for free and where stupid enough to enter your real name and get a bill form them. DONT PAY IT! they have no chance at all to get this money from you...
On February 03 2012 02:59 DyEnasTy wrote: At least you still get to watch the tourny right?
$30, I think thats pretty awesome for the entire year for the Gold membership.
The point he is making is that they are changing something that you are currently subscribed to, without your consent. I don't remember what the silver membership cost before but it was surely lower than $52/year.
On February 03 2012 03:04 Xcobidoo wrote: The point he is making is that they are changing something that you are currently subscribed to, without your consent
On February 03 2012 02:59 DyEnasTy wrote: At least you still get to watch the tourny right?
$30, I think thats pretty awesome for the entire year for the Gold membership.
The point he is making is that they are changing something that you are currently subscribed to, without your consent. I don't remember what the silver membership cost before but it was surely lower than $52/year.
They send you an email and they put this line in there...
If you do not wish to be billed for GameBattles Premium Access on your next billing cycle, you must cancel your membership before your next scheduled renewal. You may do so on your profile page after logging into your account: https://accounts.majorleaguegaming.com/account/membership
"For those of you who are also interested in watching MLG Pro Circuit Championships in HD online, we recommend you check out the MLG Gold Membership Card, which is available at GameStop and Toys "R" Us stores nationwide."
I hope us Euro's can subscribe for the $30 online.
On February 03 2012 02:59 DyEnasTy wrote: At least you still get to watch the tourny right?
$30, I think thats pretty awesome for the entire year for the Gold membership.
The point he is making is that they are changing something that you are currently subscribed to, without your consent. I don't remember what the silver membership cost before but it was surely lower than $52/year.
They send you an email and they put this line in there...
If you do not wish to be billed for GameBattles Premium Access on your next billing cycle, you must cancel your membership before your next scheduled renewal. You may do so on your profile page after logging into your account: https://accounts.majorleaguegaming.com/account/membership
seems good to me.
for you ... not for law... you can not make a contract:
Oh and btw: with this contract you agree to all other contracts we come up in future...
This is straight-up fraud. I encourage everyone who has a silver membership to make it known to MLG that this is bullshit.
From looking at their website, it appears that MLG has set up an elaborate system to protect itself from customers actually accessing customer support, so if anyone has direct numbers or emails for support personnel who can get refunds issued, it would be helpful to post them here.
On February 03 2012 02:59 DyEnasTy wrote: At least you still get to watch the tourny right?
$30, I think thats pretty awesome for the entire year for the Gold membership.
The point he is making is that they are changing something that you are currently subscribed to, without your consent. I don't remember what the silver membership cost before but it was surely lower than $52/year.
They send you an email and they put this line in there...
If you do not wish to be billed for GameBattles Premium Access on your next billing cycle, you must cancel your membership before your next scheduled renewal. You may do so on your profile page after logging into your account: https://accounts.majorleaguegaming.com/account/membership
seems good to me.
for you ... not for law... you can not make a contract.
Oh and btw. with this contract you agree to all other contracts we come up in future...
Are they charging you on your current subscription? If they are not and will do so on the next renewal then they fullfilled their part of the contract and you are signing a new one with the renewal. If they are adding this onto your current subscription (billing you the extra) then that is wrong and it is indeed illegal. Yes if you just renewed a few months before this and you cannot access the HD stream then I hope they do refund without question that is pretty stupid if they didn't refund, I doubt this is the case that they are stealing your money.
Relax put your pitchforks away and wait and see what other information is found out.
The goal with our product lineup for 2012 is to enable our fans to pay for exactly what they want. In 2011, our products were very convoluted and bundled GameBattles and video features together. We've found our audience tends to only care about one or the other, so we're restructuring our products in order to facilitate those wants.
Our Silver Membership was one of the biggest culprits. We found that there was about a 70%-30% split in terms of the product. A large majority of Silver Members were using the pass to compete on GameBattles, while another significant portion of Silver Members only cared about watching MLG Video in HD.
In order to set fair prices for our products, we need to create products let users pay for only the features they are interested in. That is why we are removing Silver Membership and replacing it with products that focus specifically on one interest.
As I said above, most of our Silver Members were interested in competing on GameBattles. Rather than force every single user to sign up for a brand new product, we thought it would be best to message our users in advance of the change and give them the option to opt out of the membership moving forward.
We're still in the process of refining our product listing for 2012, and this is just the beginning. For those of you who are interested in video, rest assured, there will be products released specifically to suit your interests. In the meantime, I suggest you opt out of renewals on this product moving forward.
For those of you who are less than excited by this change, as you renewed recently with the understanding that you would be able to watch our Columbus Championship Event in HD, please submit an e-mail through https://support.majorleaguegaming.com/customer/portal/emails/new with your MLG Username and we will happily refund your $9.99 as long as it was set to expire after our Columbus Championship Event (meaning your last renewal must have been on or after December 23rd).
In the end, our goal is to make our products easier to understand, and allow you to pay for exactly what you are interested without any fluff. This is the beginning of the process that will allow us to do that.
On February 03 2012 03:08 whiskypriest wrote: This is straight-up fraud. I encourage everyone who has a silver membership to make it known to MLG that this is bullshit.
From looking at their website, it appears that MLG has set up an elaborate system to protect itself from customers actually accessing customer support, so if anyone has direct numbers or emails for support personnel who can get refunds issued, it would be helpful to post them here.
From the email, and original post:
If you have any questions about GameBattles Premium Access, Silver Membership, or how this affects your account, please send us an e-mail at membership@mlgpro.com
The goal with our product lineup for 2012 is to enable our fans to pay for exactly what they want. In 2011, our products were very convoluted and bundled GameBattles and video features together. We've found our audience tends to only care about one or the other, so we're restructuring our products in order to facilitate those wants.
Our Silver Membership was one of the biggest culprits. We found that there was about a 70%-30% split in terms of the product. A large majority of Silver Members were using the pass to compete on GameBattles, while another significant portion of Silver Members only cared about watching MLG Video in HD.
In order to set fair prices for our products, we need to create products let users pay for only the features they are interested in. That is why we are removing Silver Membership and replacing it with products that focus specifically on one interest.
As I said above, most of our Silver Members were interested in competing on GameBattles. Rather than force every single user to sign up for a brand new product, we thought it would be best to message our users in advance of the change and give them the option to opt out of the membership moving forward.
We're still in the process of refining our product listing for 2012, and this is just the beginning. For those of you who are interested in video, rest assured, there will be products released specifically to suit your interests. In the meantime, I suggest you opt out of renewals on this product moving forward.
For those of you who are less than excited by this change, as you renewed recently with the understanding that you would be able to watch our Columbus Championship Event in HD, please submit an e-mail through https://support.majorleaguegaming.com/customer/portal/emails/new with your MLG Username and we will happily refund your $9.99 as long as it was set to expire after our Columbus Championship Event (meaning your last renewal must have been on or after December 23rd).
In the end, our goal is to make our products easier to understand, and allow you to pay for exactly what you are interested without any fluff. This is the beginning of the process that will allow us to do that.
The goal with our product lineup for 2012 is to enable our fans to pay for exactly what they want. In 2011, our products were very convoluted and bundled GameBattles and video features together. We've found our audience tends to only care about one or the other, so we're restructuring our products in order to facilitate those wants.
Our Silver Membership was one of the biggest culprits. We found that there was about a 70%-30% split in terms of the product. A large majority of Silver Members were using the pass to compete on GameBattles, while another significant portion of Silver Members only cared about watching MLG Video in HD.
In order to set fair prices for our products, we need to create products let users pay for only the features they are interested in. That is why we are removing Silver Membership and replacing it with products that focus specifically on one interest.
As I said above, most of our Silver Members were interested in competing on GameBattles. Rather than force every single user to sign up for a brand new product, we thought it would be best to message our users in advance of the change and give them the option to opt out of the membership moving forward.
We're still in the process of refining our product listing for 2012, and this is just the beginning. For those of you who are interested in video, rest assured, there will be products released specifically to suit your interests. In the meantime, I suggest you opt out of renewals on this product moving forward.
For those of you who are less than excited by this change, as you renewed recently with the understanding that you would be able to watch our Columbus Championship Event in HD, please submit an e-mail through https://support.majorleaguegaming.com/customer/portal/emails/new with your MLG Username and we will happily refund your $9.99 as long as it was set to expire after our Columbus Championship Event (meaning your last renewal must have been on or after December 23rd).
In the end, our goal is to make our products easier to understand, and allow you to pay for exactly what you are interested without any fluff. This is the beginning of the process that will allow us to do that.
Thank you for understanding.
Sincerely, The MLG Product Team
Should probably make a new thread for that.
OP Should just put this quote in the topic? Or a mod if he doesn't...
On February 03 2012 03:11 MLG-Kyle wrote: Rather than force every single user to sign up for a brand new product, we thought it would be best to message our users in advance of the change and give them the option to opt out of the membership moving forward.
Translated: Rather than loose customers we change there contracts, just write a email and hope they dont read it... Nice try. Very unethical but nice try...
On February 03 2012 03:11 MLG-Kyle wrote: Rather than force every single user to sign up for a brand new product, we thought it would be best to message our users in advance of the change and give them the option to opt out of the membership moving forward.
Translated: Rather than loose customers we change there contracts, just write a email and hope they dont read it... Nice try. Very unethical but nice try...
Yeah. It's kind of a cheap business move to be honest.
It is fine, people will get over it. Just need to wait for the rest of the subsciption plans and hope people don't have knee jerk reactions to what they want to read instead of what is there.
The goal with our product lineup for 2012 is to enable our fans to pay for exactly what they want. In 2011, our products were very convoluted and bundled GameBattles and video features together. We've found our audience tends to only care about one or the other, so we're restructuring our products in order to facilitate those wants.
Our Silver Membership was one of the biggest culprits. We found that there was about a 70%-30% split in terms of the product. A large majority of Silver Members were using the pass to compete on GameBattles, while another significant portion of Silver Members only cared about watching MLG Video in HD.
In order to set fair prices for our products, we need to create products let users pay for only the features they are interested in. That is why we are removing Silver Membership and replacing it with products that focus specifically on one interest.
As I said above, most of our Silver Members were interested in competing on GameBattles. Rather than force every single user to sign up for a brand new product, we thought it would be best to message our users in advance of the change and give them the option to opt out of the membership moving forward.
We're still in the process of refining our product listing for 2012, and this is just the beginning. For those of you who are interested in video, rest assured, there will be products released specifically to suit your interests. In the meantime, I suggest you opt out of renewals on this product moving forward.
For those of you who are less than excited by this change, as you renewed recently with the understanding that you would be able to watch our Columbus Championship Event in HD, please submit an e-mail through https://support.majorleaguegaming.com/customer/portal/emails/new with your MLG Username and we will happily refund your $9.99 as long as it was set to expire after our Columbus Championship Event (meaning your last renewal must have been on or after December 23rd).
In the end, our goal is to make our products easier to understand, and allow you to pay for exactly what you are interested without any fluff. This is the beginning of the process that will allow us to do that.
Thank you for understanding.
Sincerely, The MLG Product Team
Should probably make a new thread for that.
Or the OP could edit it in. I doubt that would happen because then all of a sudden it all makes sense and we cannot have that in the SC2 forums.
So the new Silver is $13 per 3 months (used to be $10) but Gold has HD and everything Silver does for $30 per year? WTH? They raised the price AND took away HD leaving no short term option for HD?
On February 03 2012 02:57 feanor1 wrote: I didn't realize anyone actually bought silver. I thought everyone used the hotpockets code. I would just cancel and pick up the gold membership.
If you got it via the Hotpockets promotion do you still run the risk of getting charged? I know I did not need to put in any payment information but this made me uneasy enough to cancel for the time being.
On February 03 2012 02:57 feanor1 wrote: I didn't realize anyone actually bought silver. I thought everyone used the hotpockets code. I would just cancel and pick up the gold membership.
If you got it via the Hotpockets promotion do you still run the risk of getting charged? I know I did not need to put in any payment information but this made me uneasy enough to cancel for the time being.
There is no risk of being charged for those who signed up via the Hot Pockets promotion.
On February 03 2012 03:17 Kralic wrote: It is fine, people will get over it. Just need to wait for the rest of the subsciption plans and hope people don't have knee jerk reactions to what they want to read instead of what is there.
you edit, so i think no need to replay to your old argument because you saw its not good.
On February 03 2012 03:17 Kralic wrote: Relax put your pitchforks away and wait and see what other information is found out..
believe it or not. im one of the few guys on tl who dont have a pitchfork ^^
On February 03 2012 03:11 MLG-Kyle wrote: Rather than force every single user to sign up for a brand new product, we thought it would be best to message our users in advance of the change and give them the option to opt out of the membership moving forward.
Translated: Rather than loose customers we change there contracts, just write a email and hope they dont read it... Nice try. Very unethical but nice try...
now really, isn't it the customer's fault for not reading emails when that's like one of the only ways companies send information about their products/etc?
Yeah, I canceled as soon as I got this email, but that only applies after April. So now I've been charged for this crap that I don't want, and they're not giving me the HD tournament streams I signed up for. This is straight up fraud!!
On February 03 2012 03:25 sitromit wrote: Yeah, I canceled as soon as I got this email, but that only applies after April. So now I've been charged for this crap that I don't want, and they're not giving me the HD tournament streams I signed up for. This is straight up fraud!!
Have you even asked them for a refund?
edit(since editing is a sin): Fraud is when they don't even bother to let you know that they changed it and then deny any attempt to get your money back.
On February 03 2012 03:25 sitromit wrote: Yeah, I canceled as soon as I got this email, but that only applies after April. So now I've been charged for this crap that I don't want, and they're not giving me the HD tournament streams I signed up for. This is straight up fraud!!
I was able to get a refund through their support with only a small amount of hassle. That doesn't make it not fraud, but at least you will be able to recoup some of your damages.
I understand their a business and have to do things like this but it's bullshit they didn't announce it earlier or before they automatically renewed my subscription....................
On February 03 2012 03:25 sitromit wrote: Yeah, I canceled as soon as I got this email, but that only applies after April. So now I've been charged for this crap that I don't want, and they're not giving me the HD tournament streams I signed up for. This is straight up fraud!!
I was able to get a refund through their support with only a small amount of hassle. That doesn't make it not fraud, but at least you will be able to recoup some of your damages.
it is not legal regarding german law.
there has to be an opt in or there is no contract!
On February 03 2012 03:28 MLG_Adam wrote: Anyone that renewed after 12/22 with the expectation of getting Columbus HD will be given a refund if you email the support Kyle listed in his post.
scratch my post above where i said i was hoping for clarification before i sharpen my pitchfork. i already renewed. if you change your terms, you need to refund my money without request. wtf kind of business are you running....
Your silver membership autorenewal for $9.99 has been refunded. Your membership has also been removed from your MLG Profile. You should see the refund on your bank statement in 3-5 business days.
Well that was taken care of very quickly, thanks for being on the ball MLG!
Good god, super annoying, just gonna cancel now. I was already annoyed that i got an automatically renewing subscription (without noticing) when i bought silver at first.
On February 03 2012 03:28 MLG_Adam wrote: Anyone that renewed after 12/22 with the expectation of getting Columbus HD will be given a refund if you email the support Kyle listed in his post.
Perfect response why didn't this get included in the email?
On February 03 2012 03:11 MLG-Kyle wrote: We're still in the process of refining our product listing for 2012, and this is just the beginning. For those of you who are interested in video, rest assured, there will be products released specifically to suit your interests. In the meantime, I suggest you opt out of renewals on this product moving forward.
So you announced this change before finalizing your products for HD streams? You could have avoided this confusion by announcing everything at once.
On February 03 2012 03:28 MLG_Adam wrote: Anyone that renewed after 12/22 with the expectation of getting Columbus HD will be given a refund if you email the support Kyle listed in his post.
scratch my post above where i said i was hoping for clarification before i sharpen my pitchfork. i already renewed. if you change your terms, you need to refund my money without request. wtf kind of business are you running....
How do they know you want a refund if you do not ask for one?
On February 03 2012 03:28 MLG_Adam wrote: Anyone that renewed after 12/22 with the expectation of getting Columbus HD will be given a refund if you email the support Kyle listed in his post.
Perfect response why didn't this get included in the email?
Was it not in the mass email? If so that was an oversight. Again, anyone that bought Silver after 12/22 with the expectation of Columbus HQ will receive a refund: For those of you who are less than excited by this change, as you renewed recently with the understanding that you would be able to watch our Columbus Championship Event in HD, please submit an e-mail through https://support.majorleaguegaming.com/customer/portal/emails/new with your MLG Username and we will happily refund your $9.99 as long as it was set to expire after our Columbus Championship Event (meaning your last renewal must have been on or after December 23rd).
On February 03 2012 03:28 MLG_Adam wrote: Anyone that renewed after 12/22 with the expectation of getting Columbus HD will be given a refund if you email the support Kyle listed in his post.
I will do this...I got billed 3 days ago and now this.
Ok, posting on TL saying that you can fill out this email form to get a refund is ok, I guess... but really, that's the best you can do? You can't, say, stop renewing silver league memberships but let the people who already have them keep them through this next cycle and get the benefits they were promised? That seems like the obvious reasonable way to do this. If not that, you could at least say something about that in your email, so that everyone can actually know what to do, rather than expecting them to hunt for it on TL.
The goal with our product lineup for 2012 is to enable our fans to pay for exactly what they want. In 2011, our products were very convoluted and bundled GameBattles and video features together. We've found our audience tends to only care about one or the other, so we're restructuring our products in order to facilitate those wants.
Our Silver Membership was one of the biggest culprits. We found that there was about a 70%-30% split in terms of the product. A large majority of Silver Members were using the pass to compete on GameBattles, while another significant portion of Silver Members only cared about watching MLG Video in HD.
In order to set fair prices for our products, we need to create products let users pay for only the features they are interested in. That is why we are removing Silver Membership and replacing it with products that focus specifically on one interest.
As I said above, most of our Silver Members were interested in competing on GameBattles. Rather than force every single user to sign up for a brand new product, we thought it would be best to message our users in advance of the change and give them the option to opt out of the membership moving forward.
We're still in the process of refining our product listing for 2012, and this is just the beginning. For those of you who are interested in video, rest assured, there will be products released specifically to suit your interests. In the meantime, I suggest you opt out of renewals on this product moving forward.
For those of you who are less than excited by this change, as you renewed recently with the understanding that you would be able to watch our Columbus Championship Event in HD, please submit an e-mail through https://support.majorleaguegaming.com/customer/portal/emails/new with your MLG Username and we will happily refund your $9.99 as long as it was set to expire after our Columbus Championship Event (meaning your last renewal must have been on or after December 23rd).
In the end, our goal is to make our products easier to understand, and allow you to pay for exactly what you are interested without any fluff. This is the beginning of the process that will allow us to do that.
Thank you for understanding.
Sincerely, The MLG Product Team
I cancelled my silver anyway when I discovered (while trying to watch MLG), that 4 streams are locked to a single PC, meaning that rather than being able to watch the streams in high quality on 4 different screens, I was forced either watch LQ, or not make full use of my screens.
On February 03 2012 03:25 sitromit wrote: Yeah, I canceled as soon as I got this email, but that only applies after April. So now I've been charged for this crap that I don't want, and they're not giving me the HD tournament streams I signed up for. This is straight up fraud!!
I was able to get a refund through their support with only a small amount of hassle. That doesn't make it not fraud, but at least you will be able to recoup some of your damages.
it is not legal regarding german law.
there has to be an opt in or there is no contract!
dunno if it's legal in the US though.
I'm a US lawyer and it's not legal here either. Indeed, it's likely criminal in my jurisdiction (Georgia).
On February 03 2012 03:33 feanor1 wrote: I think the best way would of been to extend silver benefits until the end of your current term and then not allow you to renew past this date.
why provide services that aren't paid for? It seems like people are going to get free hd for columbus and get their money back if they renewed after 12/22.
Just put that money and 20$ extra and get a whole year of gold.
On February 03 2012 03:28 MLG_Adam wrote: Anyone that renewed after 12/22 with the expectation of getting Columbus HD will be given a refund if you email the support Kyle listed in his post.
scratch my post above where i said i was hoping for clarification before i sharpen my pitchfork. i already renewed. if you change your terms, you need to refund my money without request. wtf kind of business are you running....
How do they know you want a refund if you do not ask for one?
they changed the terms of service; they should keep the same terms, or refund the money. they dont get to change the terms and keep the money. its bullshit. and now i have to go through their website trying to figure out how to cancel my membership (forgot my mlg id =( ) to deal with this.
On February 03 2012 03:28 MLG_Adam wrote: Anyone that renewed after 12/22 with the expectation of getting Columbus HD will be given a refund if you email the support Kyle listed in his post.
scratch my post above where i said i was hoping for clarification before i sharpen my pitchfork. i already renewed. if you change your terms, you need to refund my money without request. wtf kind of business are you running....
How do they know you want a refund if you do not ask for one?
Because they agreed to pay for something that you're not giving them. You should give a refund without even being asked and then ask them if they would be interested in the new deal.
well Only Sc2 viewers would only want HD access. so hey MLG make a package around 10 bucks for HD only and stop stealing our money. our economy is bad enough.
On February 03 2012 03:28 MLG_Adam wrote: Anyone that renewed after 12/22 with the expectation of getting Columbus HD will be given a refund if you email the support Kyle listed in his post.
scratch my post above where i said i was hoping for clarification before i sharpen my pitchfork. i already renewed. if you change your terms, you need to refund my money without request. wtf kind of business are you running....
How do they know you want a refund if you do not ask for one?
they changed the terms of service; they should keep the same terms, or refund the money. they dont get to change the terms and keep the money. its bullshit. and now i have to go through their website trying to figure out how to cancel my membership (forgot my mlg id =( ) to deal with this.
On February 03 2012 03:37 RusHXceL wrote: well Only Sc2 viewers would only want HD access. so hey MLG make a package around 10 bucks for HD only and stop stealing our money. our economy is bad enough.
They said a year of HD-only is $30, I don't know if you can buy that online as I said above.
On February 03 2012 03:28 MLG_Adam wrote: Anyone that renewed after 12/22 with the expectation of getting Columbus HD will be given a refund if you email the support Kyle listed in his post.
Perfect response why didn't this get included in the email?
Was it not in the mass email? If so that was an oversight. Again, anyone that bought Silver after 12/22 with the expectation of Columbus HQ will receive a refund: For those of you who are less than excited by this change, as you renewed recently with the understanding that you would be able to watch our Columbus Championship Event in HD, please submit an e-mail through https://support.majorleaguegaming.com/customer/portal/emails/new with your MLG Username and we will happily refund your $9.99 as long as it was set to expire after our Columbus Championship Event (meaning your last renewal must have been on or after December 23rd).
It wasn't in the email that the op posted. Saying that a mod or the person that owns the LR should update with this info so people know about it.
Could you clarify if gold members will be getting these new benefits for game battles or is that going to be a different product entirely?
if you can't remember your id or pw just reset it with your email and you'll get both. Its a really simple process once you are logged in.
On February 03 2012 02:57 feanor1 wrote: I didn't realize anyone actually bought silver. I thought everyone used the hotpockets code. I would just cancel and pick up the gold membership.
i bought silver, becasue it think it was worth the money
On February 03 2012 03:37 RusHXceL wrote: well Only Sc2 viewers would only want HD access. so hey MLG make a package around 10 bucks for HD only and stop stealing our money. our economy is bad enough.
They said a year of HD-only is $30, I don't know if you can buy that online as I said above.
On February 03 2012 03:11 MLG-Kyle wrote: In the end, our goal is to make our products easier to understand, and allow you to pay for exactly what you are interested without any fluff. This is the beginning of the process that will allow us to do that.
Thank you for understanding.
Sincerely, The MLG Product Team
Poor execution and handling of the situation.
The Email wasn't advanced notice.
Your customers are being charged when they never agreed to the new terms of agreement.
The end result is more confusion to the deal and you get the reverse effect.
Wow low MLG. really really low. not including how people can get there money back in the original email is oversight? You full well know that this action is illegal in any part of the world and while i dont have an mlg membership I hope someone takes you to court over this cause its the easiest win they ever had.
On February 03 2012 03:37 RusHXceL wrote: well Only Sc2 viewers would only want HD access. so hey MLG make a package around 10 bucks for HD only and stop stealing our money. our economy is bad enough.
They said a year of HD-only is $30, I don't know if you can buy that online as I said above.
HD only is 30 bucks? wtf/
I'll settle with standard :/
gold membership is 30$ for the whole year. That includes a whole host of other benifits. Even if it was just hd it would still be a steal compared to the other majors.
Here is what I don't understand, Will they add a second product only for HD streams / vods so that people can simply buy that instead or are we forced to buy Gold membership?
I did not spend any money on MLG Silver Membership tho, I signed up with hotpockets and did not add any payment information so I should be fine but my membership ended last year then why am I still a member and will I even be able to watch the SC2 MLG tournaments in HD? I'm willing to pay for a product that will only gain me access to HD on these tournaments but this is just stupid.
I'd be more than happy to upgrade to Gold by paying the difference between the old silver and the new gold. But there are no option for that available online.
On February 03 2012 03:47 Hunterai wrote: I'd be more than happy to upgrade to Gold by paying the difference between the old silver and the new gold. But there are no option for that available online.
i agree. if they were smart about public relations they would have just upgraded all the silver accounts to gold through the end of their term, and then only offered gold afterwards (i.e., no silver non-renewals).
On February 03 2012 03:28 MLG_Adam wrote: Anyone that renewed after 12/22 with the expectation of getting Columbus HD will be given a refund if you email the support Kyle listed in his post.
Perfect response why didn't this get included in the email?
Was it not in the mass email? If so that was an oversight. Again, anyone that bought Silver after 12/22 with the expectation of Columbus HQ will receive a refund: For those of you who are less than excited by this change, as you renewed recently with the understanding that you would be able to watch our Columbus Championship Event in HD, please submit an e-mail through https://support.majorleaguegaming.com/customer/portal/emails/new with your MLG Username and we will happily refund your $9.99 as long as it was set to expire after our Columbus Championship Event (meaning your last renewal must have been on or after December 23rd).
It wasn't in the email that the op posted. Saying that a mod or the person that owns the LR should update with this info so people know about it.
Could you clarify if gold members will be getting these new benefits for game battles or is that going to be a different product entirely?
if you can't remember your id or pw just reset it with your email and you'll get both. Its a really simple process once you are logged in.
Gold Memberships (whether you bought online or in-store) will include HD access to our Championship Events and all of the GameBattles features for the duration of your membership.
It seemed like MLG finally actually had their shit together, and then this turd lands in our lap. What an incredibly foolish maneuver and will surely result in decreased member numbers.
Anyone who subscribed to the terms of the old Silver Membership on whatever date before any TAC relating to this Gamebattle stuff appeared is legally entitled to a refund. So that email saying: "if you subscribed before X you can have a refund" is trying to appear generous while actually being an attempt to mislead.
MLG is fucking retarded, changing terms for ppl who had purchased the Silver pass for those who want to watch just HD streams without having to do anything else with MLG it was the perfect compromise. We all know MLG hit the shit when they started laying off tons of people the whole "This year has been such a success was a total fucking lie. if they were actually doing good and "Had" a good year I think they would of given more benefits to those who actually purchased tickets. But Sundance and his crew are just shitting on the fans who supported MLG even though their casters fucking suck. From now on I will only be watching Russian HQ restreams. This is just fucking retarded. MLG has lost my support and the $40 i had set for this years silver passes. Getting rid of the HQ streams was probably the stupidest thing you did.
On February 03 2012 03:47 Hunterai wrote: I'd be more than happy to upgrade to Gold by paying the difference between the old silver and the new gold. But there are no option for that available online.
i agree. if they were smart about public relations they would have just upgraded all the silver accounts to gold through the end of their term, and then only offered gold afterwards (i.e., no silver non-renewals).
What I'm afraid now is that the online version of the gold membership will be more expensive than the 30$ you can get in the US T_T
Can someone explain to me what game(s) the email is talking about when it lists all those benefits of the gamebattles premium access thing? Also since it's somewhat related to the topic at hand, how difficult would it be to just be able to buy a gold membership to just one of the games MLG streams? If the annual price of a gold membership is $30, that's $2.50 per month. If you could specifically pick one or multiple games to get HD access to it would be even cheaper. I would be pretty content with paying less than a dollar per month for HD quality SC2 streams whenever there's an MLG event.
On February 03 2012 04:00 Teejing wrote: Sounds pretty illegal to me. Any Lawer interested to share his wisom with us?
not going to do any specific research so take it with a grain of salt. in California, US, it would be considered a breach of contract (unless there is a term stating they can change their terms at any time for a full refund; i'm not reading the TOC), and arguably its a violation of California's Unfair Competition Law, Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code section 17200 because its an unfair business practice (most likely a bait and switch, but also potentially other violations). may also be a violation of the consumer legal remedies act as well.
what is ironic about this whole thing is that my mlg membership page still says i am entitled to HQ through April 2014. so, all i have to do is take a screenshot and mlg is fucking in hot water if they get sued.
Anyone that wants a refund that renewed with the assumption they would get Columbus HQ will receive a refund per Kyle's post:
For those of you who are less than excited by this change, as you renewed recently with the understanding that you would be able to watch our Columbus Championship Event in HD, please submit an e-mail through https://support.majorleaguegaming.com/customer/portal/emails/new with your MLG Username and we will happily refund your $9.99 as long as it was set to expire after our Columbus Championship Event (meaning your last renewal must have been on or after December 23rd).
On February 03 2012 03:47 Hunterai wrote: I'd be more than happy to upgrade to Gold by paying the difference between the old silver and the new gold. But there are no option for that available online.
i agree. if they were smart about public relations they would have just upgraded all the silver accounts to gold through the end of their term, and then only offered gold afterwards (i.e., no silver non-renewals).
plus if they offered gold for the difference they would get a lot of people on the same pay level as gold members. This whole thing seems unprepared and lacks the professionalism that a company should have. You should take the greatest care when you are handling peoples money.
I was actually looking forward to mlg starting up some more online stuff. Gamebattles has always seemed like a great way to move in on the community and focus more of the action onto them. Having their own ladder like halo with mlg maps and other ways of cheap content generation. have like 20 guys randomly moved into a ladder group and have the winner get a metal and a seed into the monthly tournaments from a whole bunch of other groups. So much opertunity there that I'm really sad this is how it gets announced.
Deimos FEB 02, 2012 | 02:00PM EST Your silver membership autorenewal for $9.99 has been refunded. Your membership has also been removed from your MLG Profile. You should see the refund on your bank statement in 3-5 business days.
Thanks, MLG Daniel D'Agostino - Community Outreach Manager Major League Gaming 3 Park Ave - 32nd Floor - New York, NY - 10016 Twitter: MLGDeimos www.majorleaguegaming.com
On a more serious note, I bought the gold membership ( it was so cheap anyway) so i'm not too concerned about that. It's not really good PR wise though. And also this autorenewal thing is pure bullshit >_<.
Any person who even has a single day of silver membership since the change of the terms is entitled to a refund of any time remaining in the membership regardless of date of payment/renewel. To state otherwise is a lie and an attempt at extortion.
On February 03 2012 04:00 Teejing wrote: Sounds pretty illegal to me. Any Lawer interested to share his wisom with us?
not going to do any specific research so take it with a grain of salt. in California, US, it would be considered a breach of contract (unless there is a term stating they can change their terms at any time for a full refund; i'm not reading the TOC), and arguably its a violation of California's Unfair Competition Law, Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code section 17200 because its an unfair business practice (most likely a bait and switch, but also potentially other violations). may also be a violation of the consumer legal remedies act as well.
what is ironic about this whole thing is that my mlg membership page still says i am entitled to HQ through April 2014. so, all i have to do is take a screenshot and mlg is fucking in hot water if they get sued.
don't be stupid. first off they're based in NY so all cali law doesn't matter. If you want to look for a legal route start reading this.
On February 03 2012 03:28 MLG_Adam wrote: Anyone that renewed after 12/22 with the expectation of getting Columbus HD will be given a refund if you email the support Kyle listed in his post.
Perfect response why didn't this get included in the email?
Was it not in the mass email? If so that was an oversight. Again, anyone that bought Silver after 12/22 with the expectation of Columbus HQ will receive a refund: For those of you who are less than excited by this change, as you renewed recently with the understanding that you would be able to watch our Columbus Championship Event in HD, please submit an e-mail through https://support.majorleaguegaming.com/customer/portal/emails/new with your MLG Username and we will happily refund your $9.99 as long as it was set to expire after our Columbus Championship Event (meaning your last renewal must have been on or after December 23rd).
It wasn't in the email that the op posted. Saying that a mod or the person that owns the LR should update with this info so people know about it.
Could you clarify if gold members will be getting these new benefits for game battles or is that going to be a different product entirely?
if you can't remember your id or pw just reset it with your email and you'll get both. Its a really simple process once you are logged in.
Gold Memberships (whether you bought online or in-store) will include HD access to our Championship Events and all of the GameBattles features for the duration of your membership.
On February 03 2012 04:00 Teejing wrote: Sounds pretty illegal to me. Any Lawer interested to share his wisom with us?
not going to do any specific research so take it with a grain of salt. in California, US, it would be considered a breach of contract (unless there is a term stating they can change their terms at any time for a full refund; i'm not reading the TOC), and arguably its a violation of California's Unfair Competition Law, Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code section 17200 because its an unfair business practice (most likely a bait and switch, but also potentially other violations). may also be a violation of the consumer legal remedies act as well.
what is ironic about this whole thing is that my mlg membership page still says i am entitled to HQ through April 2014. so, all i have to do is take a screenshot and mlg is fucking in hot water if they get sued.
don't be stupid. first off they're based in NY so all cali law doesn't matter. If you want to look for a legal route start reading this.
Fun fact TOS's are every companies best friend. People don't read them and they pretty much protect them in any case.
Except changing your terms without option for refund (which is this. a post on some forum isnt worth anything legally) is illegal. They can chance the terms. they cant force you to accept them and pay them for it.
On February 03 2012 04:05 MLG_Adam wrote: Anyone that wants a refund that renewed with the assumption they would get Columbus HQ will receive a refund per Kyle's post:
For those of you who are less than excited by this change, as you renewed recently with the understanding that you would be able to watch our Columbus Championship Event in HD, please submit an e-mail through https://support.majorleaguegaming.com/customer/portal/emails/new with your MLG Username and we will happily refund your $9.99 as long as it was set to expire after our Columbus Championship Event (meaning your last renewal must have been on or after December 23rd).
Whether people can refund their money or not. U guys should announce such things 3 months in advance, and auto-renewing when u are changing the package? come on man Just changing it is a dickmove.
On February 03 2012 03:56 Boblhead wrote: MLG is fucking retarded, changing terms for ppl who had purchased the Silver pass for those who want to watch just HD streams without having to do anything else with MLG it was the perfect compromise. We all know MLG hit the shit when they started laying off tons of people the whole "This year has been such a success was a total fucking lie. if they were actually doing good and "Had" a good year I think they would of given more benefits to those who actually purchased tickets. But Sundance and his crew are just shitting on the fans who supported MLG even though their casters fucking suck. From now on I will only be watching Russian HQ restreams. This is just fucking retarded. MLG has lost my support and the $40 i had set for this years silver passes. Getting rid of the HQ streams was probably the stupidest thing you did.
Reading this actually made my head hurt it's so wrong. MLG didn't "hit the shit" at all, they cut everyone that wasn't necessary. Paying more money for stuff you don't need (or isn't bringing a profit) is a waste.
And no, they aren't "shitting on the fans" either, they're restructuring almost everything that has to do with MLG, not just the payment plans. They handled it pretty poorly, but you're blowing it WAY out of proportion. And as for the casters sucking, what? They have arguably the best casters out there, I can't name a tournament that has better casters to be honest.
On February 03 2012 04:00 Teejing wrote: Sounds pretty illegal to me. Any Lawer interested to share his wisom with us?
not going to do any specific research so take it with a grain of salt. in California, US, it would be considered a breach of contract (unless there is a term stating they can change their terms at any time for a full refund; i'm not reading the TOC), and arguably its a violation of California's Unfair Competition Law, Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code section 17200 because its an unfair business practice (most likely a bait and switch, but also potentially other violations). may also be a violation of the consumer legal remedies act as well.
what is ironic about this whole thing is that my mlg membership page still says i am entitled to HQ through April 2014. so, all i have to do is take a screenshot and mlg is fucking in hot water if they get sued.
don't be stupid. first off they're based in NY so all cali law doesn't matter. If you want to look for a legal route start reading this.
Fun fact TOS's are every companies best friend. People don't read them and they pretty much protect them in any case.
Except changing your terms without option for refund (which is this. a post on some forum isnt worth anything legally) is illegal. They can chance the terms. they cant force you to accept them and pay them for it.
I'm not sure you read the tos. I looked it over a little bit and lookie here
BY SUBSCRIBING TO A MEMBERSHIP PROGRAM, YOU OR, IF YOU ARE THE PARENT OR LEGAL GUARDIAN OF A MEMBER WHO IS A MINOR, HEREBY AGREE TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS SET FORTH IN THIS AGREEMENT AND IN MAJOR LEAGUE GAMING’S TERMS OF SERVICE.MLG RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE OR MODIFY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AT ANY TIME AND WITHOUT NOTICE.
its literaly a few lines down on that link. Don't talk shit about legalities without knowing anything at all about stuff.
On February 03 2012 04:00 Teejing wrote: Sounds pretty illegal to me. Any Lawer interested to share his wisom with us?
not going to do any specific research so take it with a grain of salt. in California, US, it would be considered a breach of contract (unless there is a term stating they can change their terms at any time for a full refund; i'm not reading the TOC), and arguably its a violation of California's Unfair Competition Law, Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code section 17200 because its an unfair business practice (most likely a bait and switch, but also potentially other violations). may also be a violation of the consumer legal remedies act as well.
what is ironic about this whole thing is that my mlg membership page still says i am entitled to HQ through April 2014. so, all i have to do is take a screenshot and mlg is fucking in hot water if they get sued.
don't be stupid. first off they're based in NY so all cali law doesn't matter. If you want to look for a legal route start reading this.
Fun fact TOS's are every companies best friend. People don't read them and they pretty much protect them in any case.
Except changing your terms without option for refund (which is this. a post on some forum isnt worth anything legally) is illegal. They can chance the terms. they cant force you to accept them and pay them for it.
I'm not sure you read the tos. I looked it over a little bit and lookie here
BY SUBSCRIBING TO A MEMBERSHIP PROGRAM, YOU OR, IF YOU ARE THE PARENT OR LEGAL GUARDIAN OF A MEMBER WHO IS A MINOR, HEREBY AGREE TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS SET FORTH IN THIS AGREEMENT AND IN MAJOR LEAGUE GAMING’S TERMS OF SERVICE.MLG RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE OR MODIFY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AT ANY TIME AND WITHOUT NOTICE.
its literaly a few lines down on that link. Don't talk shit about legalities without knowing anything at all about stuff.
They can put in the ToS that they can kill you but that doesnt make it any less then murder... Basic consumer right cannot be overwriten by a ToS. any statement saying otherwise looks nice as an attempt to keep people from getting there right but will not hold up for even 1 second in court.
Why in the world would MLG start inconveniencing customers at the start of a year like this right before an event. Just eat the freaking difference which would be 2 months at most and say through you're good will you'll be providing HD access until the next renewal date where they would have to buy a gold pass for HD. Bam, people think you're being generous and aren't inconveniencing them and you build some more good will at the cost of 1-2 dollars per silver subscriber.
All they did with this is piss off a lot of people and lose potential subscribers that don't want to be around the next time MLG decides to change things up. Gotta wonder who makes these decisions.
This is actually pretty shocking. You don't charge people for something and then say "Actually, we're not going to give it to you". You can't take money for a service which you then don't give, and you really can't only refund for not following through on your side of the contract if your client specifically asks you. Pretty terrible all round by MLG. I'm not a subscriber myself, and this makes me glad, because this is just abysmal service management.
Regarding legality, this may be legal in the US, I don't know, but I know it's not legal in the UK, and as the contract is (by UK law) made in the UK by British citizens, it most certainly isn't legal for MLG to do this to their British customers. No idea on the rest of the world, but I expect this is also the case for some of the rest of it.
But really, the legality is irrelevant - you don't treat customers like this.
On February 03 2012 04:00 Teejing wrote: Sounds pretty illegal to me. Any Lawer interested to share his wisom with us?
not going to do any specific research so take it with a grain of salt. in California, US, it would be considered a breach of contract (unless there is a term stating they can change their terms at any time for a full refund; i'm not reading the TOC), and arguably its a violation of California's Unfair Competition Law, Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code section 17200 because its an unfair business practice (most likely a bait and switch, but also potentially other violations). may also be a violation of the consumer legal remedies act as well.
what is ironic about this whole thing is that my mlg membership page still says i am entitled to HQ through April 2014. so, all i have to do is take a screenshot and mlg is fucking in hot water if they get sued.
don't be stupid. first off they're based in NY so all cali law doesn't matter. If you want to look for a legal route start reading this.
Fun fact TOS's are every companies best friend. People don't read them and they pretty much protect them in any case.
Except changing your terms without option for refund (which is this. a post on some forum isnt worth anything legally) is illegal. They can chance the terms. they cant force you to accept them and pay them for it.
I'm not sure you read the tos. I looked it over a little bit and lookie here
BY SUBSCRIBING TO A MEMBERSHIP PROGRAM, YOU OR, IF YOU ARE THE PARENT OR LEGAL GUARDIAN OF A MEMBER WHO IS A MINOR, HEREBY AGREE TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS SET FORTH IN THIS AGREEMENT AND IN MAJOR LEAGUE GAMING’S TERMS OF SERVICE.MLG RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE OR MODIFY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AT ANY TIME AND WITHOUT NOTICE.
its literaly a few lines down on that link. Don't talk shit about legalities without knowing anything at all about stuff.
They can put in the ToS that they can kill you but that doesnt make it any less then murder... Basic consumer right cannot be overwriten by a ToS. any statement saying otherwise looks nice as an attempt to keep people from getting there right but will not hold up for even 1 second in court.
You don't get it. It is legal what can't you understand about this? An NY court will rule in favor of MLG if you really want to go for it. by getting silver you agreed to the whole thing. Let me say that again. You are okay with this by having silver at any point.
On February 03 2012 04:22 FuzzyJAM wrote:Regarding legality, this may be legal in the US, I don't know, but I know it's not legal in the UK, and as the contract is (by UK law) made in the UK by British citizens, it most certainly isn't legal for MLG to do this to their British customers. No idea on the rest of the world, but I expect this is also the case for some of the rest of it.
But really, the legality is irrelevant - you don't treat customers like this.
The AGREEMENT is governed by the laws of NY. Its not a contract in any case.
But you are right on that second part this whole thing is really silly. gold members should have gotten an email on the new things that they where getting and a change to mlgs account services should have been annouced on the site.
On February 03 2012 04:00 Teejing wrote: Sounds pretty illegal to me. Any Lawer interested to share his wisom with us?
not going to do any specific research so take it with a grain of salt. in California, US, it would be considered a breach of contract (unless there is a term stating they can change their terms at any time for a full refund; i'm not reading the TOC), and arguably its a violation of California's Unfair Competition Law, Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code section 17200 because its an unfair business practice (most likely a bait and switch, but also potentially other violations). may also be a violation of the consumer legal remedies act as well.
what is ironic about this whole thing is that my mlg membership page still says i am entitled to HQ through April 2014. so, all i have to do is take a screenshot and mlg is fucking in hot water if they get sued.
don't be stupid. first off they're based in NY so all cali law doesn't matter. If you want to look for a legal route start reading this.
Fun fact TOS's are every companies best friend. People don't read them and they pretty much protect them in any case.
Except changing your terms without option for refund (which is this. a post on some forum isnt worth anything legally) is illegal. They can chance the terms. they cant force you to accept them and pay them for it.
I'm not sure you read the tos. I looked it over a little bit and lookie here
BY SUBSCRIBING TO A MEMBERSHIP PROGRAM, YOU OR, IF YOU ARE THE PARENT OR LEGAL GUARDIAN OF A MEMBER WHO IS A MINOR, HEREBY AGREE TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS SET FORTH IN THIS AGREEMENT AND IN MAJOR LEAGUE GAMING’S TERMS OF SERVICE.MLG RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE OR MODIFY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AT ANY TIME AND WITHOUT NOTICE.
its literaly a few lines down on that link. Don't talk shit about legalities without knowing anything at all about stuff.
They can put in the ToS that they can kill you but that doesnt make it any less then murder... Basic consumer right cannot be overwriten by a ToS. any statement saying otherwise looks nice as an attempt to keep people from getting there right but will not hold up for even 1 second in court.
#2 pretty much that first thing you learn in university is, that nearly all ToS are somehow against the laws and the companies wont win anything with them @ court (at least in Germany).
Prior to our first Championship of the year, we will have products available for those who are interested only in watching HD live streams. In the end, our product listing for 2012 will be much clearer and allow fans to pay only for the features they are interested in at a fair price. No more paying for GameBattles features if all you want is video, and vice versa.
Prior to our first Championship of the year, we will have products available for those who are interested only in watching HD live streams. In the end, our product listing for 2012 will be much clearer and allow fans to pay only for the features they are interested in at a fair price. No more paying for GameBattles features if all you want is video, and vice versa.
On February 03 2012 04:00 Teejing wrote: Sounds pretty illegal to me. Any Lawer interested to share his wisom with us?
not going to do any specific research so take it with a grain of salt. in California, US, it would be considered a breach of contract (unless there is a term stating they can change their terms at any time for a full refund; i'm not reading the TOC), and arguably its a violation of California's Unfair Competition Law, Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code section 17200 because its an unfair business practice (most likely a bait and switch, but also potentially other violations). may also be a violation of the consumer legal remedies act as well.
what is ironic about this whole thing is that my mlg membership page still says i am entitled to HQ through April 2014. so, all i have to do is take a screenshot and mlg is fucking in hot water if they get sued.
don't be stupid. first off they're based in NY so all cali law doesn't matter. If you want to look for a legal route start reading this.
Fun fact TOS's are every companies best friend. People don't read them and they pretty much protect them in any case.
"don't be stupid." unless there is an enforceable choice of law clause in the TOS, which California courts love to refuse to enforce in adhesive contracts (like the TOS in this case), California law applies for persons injured in California. moreover, california and new york law are very similar, so it wouldn't matter in any case.
Wow, talk about ridiculous...seems like they are doing a great job, read the whole post plz...and all the legal posts lmao, even if it was illegal, are you gonna pay 100s of dollars (minimum) in legal fees to get 10bucks back?
On February 03 2012 04:00 Teejing wrote: Sounds pretty illegal to me. Any Lawer interested to share his wisom with us?
not going to do any specific research so take it with a grain of salt. in California, US, it would be considered a breach of contract (unless there is a term stating they can change their terms at any time for a full refund; i'm not reading the TOC), and arguably its a violation of California's Unfair Competition Law, Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code section 17200 because its an unfair business practice (most likely a bait and switch, but also potentially other violations). may also be a violation of the consumer legal remedies act as well.
what is ironic about this whole thing is that my mlg membership page still says i am entitled to HQ through April 2014. so, all i have to do is take a screenshot and mlg is fucking in hot water if they get sued.
don't be stupid. first off they're based in NY so all cali law doesn't matter. If you want to look for a legal route start reading this.
Fun fact TOS's are every companies best friend. People don't read them and they pretty much protect them in any case.
Except changing your terms without option for refund (which is this. a post on some forum isnt worth anything legally) is illegal. They can chance the terms. they cant force you to accept them and pay them for it.
I'm not sure you read the tos. I looked it over a little bit and lookie here
BY SUBSCRIBING TO A MEMBERSHIP PROGRAM, YOU OR, IF YOU ARE THE PARENT OR LEGAL GUARDIAN OF A MEMBER WHO IS A MINOR, HEREBY AGREE TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS SET FORTH IN THIS AGREEMENT AND IN MAJOR LEAGUE GAMING’S TERMS OF SERVICE.MLG RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE OR MODIFY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AT ANY TIME AND WITHOUT NOTICE.
its literaly a few lines down on that link. Don't talk shit about legalities without knowing anything at all about stuff.
They can put in the ToS that they can kill you but that doesnt make it any less then murder... Basic consumer right cannot be overwriten by a ToS. any statement saying otherwise looks nice as an attempt to keep people from getting there right but will not hold up for even 1 second in court.
You don't get it. It is legal what can't you understand about this? An NY court will rule in favor of MLG if you really want to go for it. by getting silver you agreed to the whole thing. Let me say that again. You are okay with this by having silver at any point.
On February 03 2012 04:22 FuzzyJAM wrote:Regarding legality, this may be legal in the US, I don't know, but I know it's not legal in the UK, and as the contract is (by UK law) made in the UK by British citizens, it most certainly isn't legal for MLG to do this to their British customers. No idea on the rest of the world, but I expect this is also the case for some of the rest of it.
But really, the legality is irrelevant - you don't treat customers like this.
The AGREEMENT is governed by the laws of NY. Its not a contract in any case.
I'm sorry but you're simply wrong. British law has UCTA 1977 and ECR 2002. They are very clear. Most of Europe has similar laws. MLG has committed something illegal in the UK and other countries, regardless of whether they have committed anything illegal in the US.
No offence, but the fact that you think it's not a contract suggests that you probably shouldn't be trying to speak about legal matters.
On February 03 2012 04:00 Teejing wrote: Sounds pretty illegal to me. Any Lawer interested to share his wisom with us?
not going to do any specific research so take it with a grain of salt. in California, US, it would be considered a breach of contract (unless there is a term stating they can change their terms at any time for a full refund; i'm not reading the TOC), and arguably its a violation of California's Unfair Competition Law, Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code section 17200 because its an unfair business practice (most likely a bait and switch, but also potentially other violations). may also be a violation of the consumer legal remedies act as well.
what is ironic about this whole thing is that my mlg membership page still says i am entitled to HQ through April 2014. so, all i have to do is take a screenshot and mlg is fucking in hot water if they get sued.
don't be stupid. first off they're based in NY so all cali law doesn't matter. If you want to look for a legal route start reading this.
Fun fact TOS's are every companies best friend. People don't read them and they pretty much protect them in any case.
Except changing your terms without option for refund (which is this. a post on some forum isnt worth anything legally) is illegal. They can chance the terms. they cant force you to accept them and pay them for it.
I'm not sure you read the tos. I looked it over a little bit and lookie here
BY SUBSCRIBING TO A MEMBERSHIP PROGRAM, YOU OR, IF YOU ARE THE PARENT OR LEGAL GUARDIAN OF A MEMBER WHO IS A MINOR, HEREBY AGREE TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS SET FORTH IN THIS AGREEMENT AND IN MAJOR LEAGUE GAMING’S TERMS OF SERVICE.MLG RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE OR MODIFY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AT ANY TIME AND WITHOUT NOTICE.
its literaly a few lines down on that link. Don't talk shit about legalities without knowing anything at all about stuff.
They can put in the ToS that they can kill you but that doesnt make it any less then murder... Basic consumer right cannot be overwriten by a ToS. any statement saying otherwise looks nice as an attempt to keep people from getting there right but will not hold up for even 1 second in court.
You don't get it. It is legal what can't you understand about this? An NY court will rule in favor of MLG if you really want to go for it. by getting silver you agreed to the whole thing. Let me say that again. You are okay with this by having silver at any point.
On February 03 2012 04:22 FuzzyJAM wrote:Regarding legality, this may be legal in the US, I don't know, but I know it's not legal in the UK, and as the contract is (by UK law) made in the UK by British citizens, it most certainly isn't legal for MLG to do this to their British customers. No idea on the rest of the world, but I expect this is also the case for some of the rest of it.
But really, the legality is irrelevant - you don't treat customers like this.
The AGREEMENT is governed by the laws of NY. Its not a contract in any case.
But you are right on that second part this whole thing is really silly. gold members should have gotten an email on the new things that they where getting and a change to mlgs account services should have been annouced on the site.
are you a lawyer? i have been a california lawyer since 2005, and have practiced cases with new york law. our client, General Electric, loves to put new york choice of law provisions in their contracts.
your reading of the contract is completely off-base. they cant change the terms and say "too fucking bad, we are keeping your money." also, just because its in the contract doesn't mean that it doesn't violate other laws (i.e., the consumer legal remedies act, the unfair competition law, etc.). thats the whole reason why the laws were made; so companies couldn't fucking hide behind contract language.
So, can anyone explain this to me in simple english, please?
I got this free silver account through that Hot Pocket thing. The system says that my "membership will not be renewed when your current term ends on August 26, 2011".
So my membership is basically over, isn't it? Will I be charged after Feb 7th? Do I have to cancel my membership anywhere to not to be charged?
I don't want to pay any money. I don't care if I won't be able to watch MLG in HD anymore. I just don't want to pay anything.
On February 03 2012 04:00 Teejing wrote: Sounds pretty illegal to me. Any Lawer interested to share his wisom with us?
not going to do any specific research so take it with a grain of salt. in California, US, it would be considered a breach of contract (unless there is a term stating they can change their terms at any time for a full refund; i'm not reading the TOC), and arguably its a violation of California's Unfair Competition Law, Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code section 17200 because its an unfair business practice (most likely a bait and switch, but also potentially other violations). may also be a violation of the consumer legal remedies act as well.
what is ironic about this whole thing is that my mlg membership page still says i am entitled to HQ through April 2014. so, all i have to do is take a screenshot and mlg is fucking in hot water if they get sued.
don't be stupid. first off they're based in NY so all cali law doesn't matter. If you want to look for a legal route start reading this.
Fun fact TOS's are every companies best friend. People don't read them and they pretty much protect them in any case.
"don't be stupid." unless there is an enforceable choice of law clause in the TOS, which California courts love to refuse to enforce in adhesive contracts (like the TOS in this case), California law applies for persons injured in California. moreover, california and new york law are very similar, so it wouldn't matter in any case.
This boggles the mind. Its not a contract its an agreement. And you do consent to have everything done in a NY court. they do have a term stating that they can change it at any time.
On February 03 2012 04:01 Yaki wrote: MLG completely changing lately, don't know what has gotten into them
they are downsizing. loss of sponsers or lack of sponser payout is my guess.
They are doing a "reduction in force" which is common in companies that are being back by other people's money. Obviously they did not do a very good job of meeting whatever numbers/goals they projected and had to regroup.
On February 03 2012 04:00 Teejing wrote: Sounds pretty illegal to me. Any Lawer interested to share his wisom with us?
not going to do any specific research so take it with a grain of salt. in California, US, it would be considered a breach of contract (unless there is a term stating they can change their terms at any time for a full refund; i'm not reading the TOC), and arguably its a violation of California's Unfair Competition Law, Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code section 17200 because its an unfair business practice (most likely a bait and switch, but also potentially other violations). may also be a violation of the consumer legal remedies act as well.
what is ironic about this whole thing is that my mlg membership page still says i am entitled to HQ through April 2014. so, all i have to do is take a screenshot and mlg is fucking in hot water if they get sued.
don't be stupid. first off they're based in NY so all cali law doesn't matter. If you want to look for a legal route start reading this.
Fun fact TOS's are every companies best friend. People don't read them and they pretty much protect them in any case.
"don't be stupid." unless there is an enforceable choice of law clause in the TOS, which California courts love to refuse to enforce in adhesive contracts (like the TOS in this case), California law applies for persons injured in California. moreover, california and new york law are very similar, so it wouldn't matter in any case.
This boggles the mind. Its not a contract its an agreement. And you do consent to have everything done in a NY court. they do have a term stating that they can change it at any time.
you apparently dont have any relevant legal knowledge, so I will leave it at that.
On February 03 2012 04:36 enemy2010 wrote: So, can anyone explain this to me in simple english, please?
I got this free silver account through that Hot Pocket thing. The system says that my "membership will not be renewed when your current term ends on August 26, 2011".
So my membership is basically over, isn't it? Will I be charged after Feb 7th? Do I have to cancel my membership anywhere to not to be charged?
I don't want to pay any money. I don't care if I won't be able to watch MLG in HD anymore. I just don't want to pay anything.
So?
You won't be charged anything.
--
As for the legal thing, I bet the TOS would get thrown out in court as abusive (for example, MLG could change the terms to "and we give you NOTHING lol") but it doesn't matter because you should just request your refund and get on with it. There's no issue.
They should have just auto-refunded or auto upgraded to gold. Selling HD access, taking the money and then removing the access is just a scam. Shame on you MLG.
On February 03 2012 04:57 Teejing wrote: They should have just auto-refunded or auto upgraded to gold. Selling HD access, taking the money and then removing the access is just a scam. Shame on you MLG.
This is a good move but badly handled. I also have a silver membership, but only for the beta streams and the HD, I don't even know all the other stuffs that my membership gives me.
Offering this refund is all well and good (I got a response within minutes), but to not include it in the original email is either a huge oversight, or a conscious decision made to limit the number of refunds they have to issue, as far from everyone will spot this on TL or Reddit. Maybe I'm just a cynic, but until I see a new email sent out to all Silver members I'm going to believe the latter.
On February 03 2012 04:47 HorsemasterK wrote: How about a "no gimmicks, just HD" subscription level. I don't want MLG 'features' I will never use, I just want HD...
Read the post from MLG Kyle, it clearly states that they will be coming out with this:
For those of you who are interested in video, rest assured, there will be products released specifically to suit your interests. In the meantime, I suggest you opt out of renewals on this product moving forward.
On February 03 2012 04:00 Teejing wrote: Sounds pretty illegal to me. Any Lawer interested to share his wisom with us?
not going to do any specific research so take it with a grain of salt. in California, US, it would be considered a breach of contract (unless there is a term stating they can change their terms at any time for a full refund; i'm not reading the TOC), and arguably its a violation of California's Unfair Competition Law, Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code section 17200 because its an unfair business practice (most likely a bait and switch, but also potentially other violations). may also be a violation of the consumer legal remedies act as well.
what is ironic about this whole thing is that my mlg membership page still says i am entitled to HQ through April 2014. so, all i have to do is take a screenshot and mlg is fucking in hot water if they get sued.
don't be stupid. first off they're based in NY so all cali law doesn't matter. If you want to look for a legal route start reading this.
Fun fact TOS's are every companies best friend. People don't read them and they pretty much protect them in any case.
"don't be stupid." unless there is an enforceable choice of law clause in the TOS, which California courts love to refuse to enforce in adhesive contracts (like the TOS in this case), California law applies for persons injured in California. moreover, california and new york law are very similar, so it wouldn't matter in any case.
This boggles the mind. Its not a contract its an agreement. And you do consent to have everything done in a NY court. they do have a term stating that they can change it at any time.
you apparently dont have any relevant legal knowledge, so I will leave it at that.
Sermokala - I'm not a lawyer, but even I know any binding agreement is a contract. You should probably stop lying - unintentionally or not- to people.
On February 03 2012 04:00 Teejing wrote: Sounds pretty illegal to me. Any Lawer interested to share his wisom with us?
not going to do any specific research so take it with a grain of salt. in California, US, it would be considered a breach of contract (unless there is a term stating they can change their terms at any time for a full refund; i'm not reading the TOC), and arguably its a violation of California's Unfair Competition Law, Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code section 17200 because its an unfair business practice (most likely a bait and switch, but also potentially other violations). may also be a violation of the consumer legal remedies act as well.
what is ironic about this whole thing is that my mlg membership page still says i am entitled to HQ through April 2014. so, all i have to do is take a screenshot and mlg is fucking in hot water if they get sued.
don't be stupid. first off they're based in NY so all cali law doesn't matter. If you want to look for a legal route start reading this.
Fun fact TOS's are every companies best friend. People don't read them and they pretty much protect them in any case.
"don't be stupid." unless there is an enforceable choice of law clause in the TOS, which California courts love to refuse to enforce in adhesive contracts (like the TOS in this case), California law applies for persons injured in California. moreover, california and new york law are very similar, so it wouldn't matter in any case.
This boggles the mind. Its not a contract its an agreement. And you do consent to have everything done in a NY court. they do have a term stating that they can change it at any time.
you apparently dont have any relevant legal knowledge, so I will leave it at that.
Sermokala - I'm not a lawyer, but even I know any binding agreement is a contract. You should probably stop lying - unintentionally or not- to people.
Where's that one borderline brilliant lawyer guy?
Either way, I'm sure MLG has a clause in their TOS that let them do this. I'm not sure that it matters though, given that MLG is offering full refunds.
There's no question, to me, that MLG's screwed this up in no particularly small way. However, I do believe that their track record has proven that they are operating in good faith with the community. That means that, while we can and should express our collective displeasure with the way they did this, and ask for the things we'd like to see, talk and threats of the legality of it are just wasteful and damaging.
I'd hope that they would send out an email explaining options more thoroughly, hope that they wouldn't auto-enroll anyone, and ensure that it never happens this way again. However, I do have the hope and expectation that they will do things properly.
On February 03 2012 04:47 HorsemasterK wrote: How about a "no gimmicks, just HD" subscription level. I don't want MLG 'features' I will never use, I just want HD...
On February 03 2012 04:00 Teejing wrote: Sounds pretty illegal to me. Any Lawer interested to share his wisom with us?
not going to do any specific research so take it with a grain of salt. in California, US, it would be considered a breach of contract (unless there is a term stating they can change their terms at any time for a full refund; i'm not reading the TOC), and arguably its a violation of California's Unfair Competition Law, Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code section 17200 because its an unfair business practice (most likely a bait and switch, but also potentially other violations). may also be a violation of the consumer legal remedies act as well.
what is ironic about this whole thing is that my mlg membership page still says i am entitled to HQ through April 2014. so, all i have to do is take a screenshot and mlg is fucking in hot water if they get sued.
don't be stupid. first off they're based in NY so all cali law doesn't matter. If you want to look for a legal route start reading this.
Fun fact TOS's are every companies best friend. People don't read them and they pretty much protect them in any case.
"don't be stupid." unless there is an enforceable choice of law clause in the TOS, which California courts love to refuse to enforce in adhesive contracts (like the TOS in this case), California law applies for persons injured in California. moreover, california and new york law are very similar, so it wouldn't matter in any case.
This boggles the mind. Its not a contract its an agreement. And you do consent to have everything done in a NY court. they do have a term stating that they can change it at any time.
you apparently dont have any relevant legal knowledge, so I will leave it at that.
Sermokala - I'm not a lawyer, but even I know any binding agreement is a contract. You should probably stop lying - unintentionally or not- to people.
Where's that one borderline brilliant lawyer guy?
Either way, I'm sure MLG has a clause in their TOS that let them do this. I'm not sure that it matters though, given that MLG is offering full refunds.
again, even if there was a clause in the TOS that allows them to change the terms that does not make what they have done legal. it just means they aren't breaching the contract. there are numerous state and federal laws that prevent things like this regardless of the contract terms. the laws are designed to protect consumers from large corporations and their fifty-page, 8 point font terms and conditions.
On February 03 2012 04:36 enemy2010 wrote: So, can anyone explain this to me in simple english, please?
I got this free silver account through that Hot Pocket thing. The system says that my "membership will not be renewed when your current term ends on August 26, 2011".
So my membership is basically over, isn't it? Will I be charged after Feb 7th? Do I have to cancel my membership anywhere to not to be charged?
I don't want to pay any money. I don't care if I won't be able to watch MLG in HD anymore. I just don't want to pay anything.
On February 03 2012 04:00 Teejing wrote: Sounds pretty illegal to me. Any Lawer interested to share his wisom with us?
not going to do any specific research so take it with a grain of salt. in California, US, it would be considered a breach of contract (unless there is a term stating they can change their terms at any time for a full refund; i'm not reading the TOC), and arguably its a violation of California's Unfair Competition Law, Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code section 17200 because its an unfair business practice (most likely a bait and switch, but also potentially other violations). may also be a violation of the consumer legal remedies act as well.
what is ironic about this whole thing is that my mlg membership page still says i am entitled to HQ through April 2014. so, all i have to do is take a screenshot and mlg is fucking in hot water if they get sued.
don't be stupid. first off they're based in NY so all cali law doesn't matter. If you want to look for a legal route start reading this.
Fun fact TOS's are every companies best friend. People don't read them and they pretty much protect them in any case.
"don't be stupid." unless there is an enforceable choice of law clause in the TOS, which California courts love to refuse to enforce in adhesive contracts (like the TOS in this case), California law applies for persons injured in California. moreover, california and new york law are very similar, so it wouldn't matter in any case.
This boggles the mind. Its not a contract its an agreement. And you do consent to have everything done in a NY court. they do have a term stating that they can change it at any time.
you apparently dont have any relevant legal knowledge, so I will leave it at that.
Sermokala - I'm not a lawyer, but even I know any binding agreement is a contract. You should probably stop lying - unintentionally or not- to people.
Where's that one borderline brilliant lawyer guy?
Either way, I'm sure MLG has a clause in their TOS that let them do this. I'm not sure that it matters though, given that MLG is offering full refunds.
again, even if there was a clause in the TOS that allows them to change the terms that does not make what they have done legal. it just means they aren't breaching the contract. there are numerous state and federal laws that prevent things like this regardless of the contract terms. the laws are designed to protect consumers from large corporations and their fifty-page, 8 point font terms and conditions.
Yes and no. If the TOS clearly state that the company can make changes to the service at any time there's really nothing the consumer can do. What about the proposed Quickster/Netflix thing? No one was claiming that would have been illegal. Companies change their services and rates all the time. While there are consumer protection laws, as far as I know none of them cover this type of thing. I would be interested to see if you can find any that do.
Again though, MLG is offering a full refund so I don't see any cause for outrage. The only thing I would fault MLG for here is the fact that the don't have the HD access only membership available yet that MLG Erik was talking about. Probably would have been much more convinient for members to just switch their membership to that product instead of having to re-buy it whenever they come out with that. So a bit clumbsy on their part but overall not a huge deal. Put away the pitchforks everyone
On February 03 2012 04:00 Teejing wrote: Sounds pretty illegal to me. Any Lawer interested to share his wisom with us?
not going to do any specific research so take it with a grain of salt. in California, US, it would be considered a breach of contract (unless there is a term stating they can change their terms at any time for a full refund; i'm not reading the TOC), and arguably its a violation of California's Unfair Competition Law, Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code section 17200 because its an unfair business practice (most likely a bait and switch, but also potentially other violations). may also be a violation of the consumer legal remedies act as well.
what is ironic about this whole thing is that my mlg membership page still says i am entitled to HQ through April 2014. so, all i have to do is take a screenshot and mlg is fucking in hot water if they get sued.
don't be stupid. first off they're based in NY so all cali law doesn't matter. If you want to look for a legal route start reading this.
Fun fact TOS's are every companies best friend. People don't read them and they pretty much protect them in any case.
"don't be stupid." unless there is an enforceable choice of law clause in the TOS, which California courts love to refuse to enforce in adhesive contracts (like the TOS in this case), California law applies for persons injured in California. moreover, california and new york law are very similar, so it wouldn't matter in any case.
This boggles the mind. Its not a contract its an agreement. And you do consent to have everything done in a NY court. they do have a term stating that they can change it at any time.
you apparently dont have any relevant legal knowledge, so I will leave it at that.
Sermokala - I'm not a lawyer, but even I know any binding agreement is a contract. You should probably stop lying - unintentionally or not- to people.
Where's that one borderline brilliant lawyer guy?
Either way, I'm sure MLG has a clause in their TOS that let them do this. I'm not sure that it matters though, given that MLG is offering full refunds.
again, even if there was a clause in the TOS that allows them to change the terms that does not make what they have done legal. it just means they aren't breaching the contract. there are numerous state and federal laws that prevent things like this regardless of the contract terms. the laws are designed to protect consumers from large corporations and their fifty-page, 8 point font terms and conditions.
Yes and no. If the TOS clearly state that the company can make changes to the service at any time there's really nothing the consumer can do. What about the proposed Quickster/Netflix thing? No one was claiming that would have been illegal. Companies change their services and rates all the time. While there are consumer protection laws, as far as I know none of them cover this type of thing. I would be interested to see if you can find any that do.
Again though, MLG is offering a full refund so I don't see any cause for outrage. The only thing I would fault MLG for here is the fact that the don't have the HD access only membership available yet that MLG Erik was talking about. Probably would have been much more convinient for members to just switch their membership to that product instead of having to re-buy it whenever they come out with that. So a bit clumbsy on their part but overall not a huge deal. Put away the pitchforks everyone
California's Unfair Competition Law, Business and Professions Code section 17200 prevents unfair business practices such as bait and switches. MLG made representations as to a product, they took our money and then they took the product away, but continued to offer their "gold" plan.
California's Consumer Legal Remedies Act (I am litigating a class-action under this law as we speak) prevents companies from making fraudulent representations. MLG made representations as to their product, they took our money and then the product turned out not to be what they offered.
These are only two examples based on cases I have actually litigated in California courts. We may not have any rights under contract law to sue MLG because of the TOS (I haven't read, so I won't express an opinion), but that does not preclude suit under the various consumer laws. Especially in California where consumers are treated like babies who are unable to read contracts.
That being said. I got my refund. Still pissed at MLG at how they handled this (and that they had auto-renew in the first place), but MLG's product is still solid so I will buy a gold pass. And, no, I won't be taking legal action, because its not worth the time or money, but there are a lot of starving class-action lawyers in California looking for a quick buck.
daPhreak, the TOS can be thrown out as invalid if it makes unreasonable constraints. The ability to change the text of the agreement at any time without consent is almost certainly invalid.
I see no grounds to litigate against MLG unless they refuse you a refund, including for those people who don't see this notice and get upset at the new charge/lack of HD.
I cancelled my silver membership. I think they approached this totally the wrong way. They took away a feature for which we used to pay. That is always going to make your customers unhappy. Instead what they should have done is ask you to chose if you want HQ streams or Gamebattle something and then switch your account to that thing only.
ok well I freeloaded the hot pockets silver membership so I can't throw stones -.- I think they should have a non-gold cheaper HD stream watching subscription tho...
On February 03 2012 03:04 Xcobidoo wrote: The point he is making is that they are changing something that you are currently subscribed to, without your consent
exactly and thats just not legal.
i doubt they broke any laws,
granted, its not the right thing to do. but as long as MLG refunds people who request it, I don't really see any issue.
On February 03 2012 03:04 Xcobidoo wrote: The point he is making is that they are changing something that you are currently subscribed to, without your consent
exactly and thats just not legal.
i doubt they broke any laws,
granted, its not the right thing to do. but as long as MLG refunds people who request it, I don't really see any issue.
It is legal as long as the public is informed, and there is reasonable time to react. This was a legal move.
Premium Ladder Support Premium Avatar Skin Access to a Premium Online Tournament each Month Access to the Members-only Forum Customization Option - Save Match Settings First priority to Beta Tests Season Prizing for Premium Ladders Premium Trophies and Badges
This is all useless stuff which is pointless for starcraft fans haha
On February 03 2012 04:57 Teejing wrote: They should have just auto-refunded or auto upgraded to gold. Selling HD access, taking the money and then removing the access is just a scam. Shame on you MLG.
SO GET THE REFUND.
The thing is, a lot of people aren't on TL/Reddit every day. They're going to be confused/pissed when they realize what happened.
On February 03 2012 13:30 magnaflow wrote: I just emailed to get my refund, has anyone recieved theirs yet? Just curious as to how long this may take
I filed for a refund this afternoon and the money is back in my paypal account. I suppose if you didn't use paypal it could take longer. It was surprisingly quick and easy to do so at least that's a little silver lining.
This makes me extremely sad.. and kills off a big chunk of the MLG hype I had going. I only bought the Silver pass so I could have HD streams and be able to throw fun SC2 parties at my place with my giant tele. If I'm reading this right.. $30 just to have access to HD video game streams is something that I exceeds my set aside esports budget.
On February 03 2012 14:11 Tuba wrote: This makes me extremely sad.. and kills off a big chunk of the MLG hype I had going. I only bought the Silver pass so I could have HD streams and be able to throw fun SC2 parties at my place with my giant tele. If I'm reading this right.. $30 just to have access to HD video game streams is something that I exceeds my set aside esports budget.
MLG has hinted at upcoming alternative subscriptions just for HD streams. I imagine they would be priced accordingly (cheaper) so you should be fine.
Wow $30 a year seems pretty reasonable to me for an entire year of HD access considering how many more events they're doing this year. I'll probably be getting a gold membership. It beats the hell out of the outlandish prices that Gom is starting to charge.
So after reading this thread I see that MLG have made a couple of changes to their Silver membership (a good change), made an announcement about the change. Told you to cancel subscription if you didn't like the change (to the game battles thing), even told told you how to get a refund if they renewed recently... and a bunch of people are calling them retards ?
On February 03 2012 14:43 Hall0wed wrote: So many haters in this thread. People around here don't have a level head when posting in topics like this.
Their stuff is reasonable and they put out the best tournament/content in the world outside of the GSL. People need more respect really.
I like MLG. I suspect I've been a fan of theirs for longer than you have.
Doesn't change the fact that selling a service which you then decide not to give and then only giving a refund if it's specifically requested is completely unacceptable and is even illegal.
On February 03 2012 14:50 heartlxp wrote: hehe is 30$ or whatever difference that big a deal when it's PER YEAR? are people paying subs w/ food stamps or something
You forgot that it's the starcraft community. $10 a month is an outragous amount and then make excuses that they are college students and can't afford that much
On February 03 2012 14:43 Hall0wed wrote: So many haters in this thread. People around here don't have a level head when posting in topics like this.
Their stuff is reasonable and they put out the best tournament/content in the world outside of the GSL. People need more respect really.
I like MLG. I suspect I've been a fan of theirs for longer than you have.
Doesn't change the fact that selling a service which you then decide not to give and then only giving a refund if it's specifically requested is completely unacceptable and is even illegal.
My MLG account dates back to February 2005. I can link it if you really need me to, I was a huge Halo fan back in the day. I suggest not starting off your replies with things like that in the future, assumptions like that are no fun. ^_^
On February 03 2012 14:29 Achaia wrote: Wow $30 a year seems pretty reasonable to me for an entire year of HD access considering how many more events they're doing this year. I'll probably be getting a gold membership. It beats the hell out of the outlandish prices that Gom is starting to charge.
Yep. I paid $30 for the Gold Membership and couldn't be happier.
On February 03 2012 03:28 MLG_Adam wrote: Anyone that renewed after 12/22 with the expectation of getting Columbus HD will be given a refund if you email the support Kyle listed in his post.
Seems kind of crappy to put the onus on the customer to do this.
On February 03 2012 03:04 Xcobidoo wrote: The point he is making is that they are changing something that you are currently subscribed to, without your consent
exactly and thats just not legal.
i doubt they broke any laws,
granted, its not the right thing to do. but as long as MLG refunds people who request it, I don't really see any issue.
It is legal as long as the public is informed, and there is reasonable time to react. This was a legal move.
this is why people shouldnt rely on legal advice on the internet.
So no more free HQ? Well atleast now watching ASUS ROG tournament will be an easier choice.
Btw lol at stupid people who renew their membership, when there isnt even a event running. Are you to lazy to cancel the subscibtion each time and renew it just when a new event strarts, or do u just want to support mlg that much?
On February 03 2012 03:28 MLG_Adam wrote: Anyone that renewed after 12/22 with the expectation of getting Columbus HD will be given a refund if you email the support Kyle listed in his post.
Seems kind of crappy to put the onus on the customer to do this.
It's a lose-lose situation.
What's the other option? Automatically un-sub all silver members? That could affect even more people if MLG's stats about Gamebattles are correct.
On February 03 2012 03:04 Xcobidoo wrote: The point he is making is that they are changing something that you are currently subscribed to, without your consent
exactly and thats just not legal.
i doubt they broke any laws,
granted, its not the right thing to do. but as long as MLG refunds people who request it, I don't really see any issue.
It is legal as long as the public is informed, and there is reasonable time to react. This was a legal move.
Say someone is on a vacation for 2 weeks and then gets back and finds out they were charged for a contract they didn't sign - is that legal? My common sense says no. And apparently the law says no as well. You can't change the terms of the substribtion and continue charging. That's just not legal, and not ethical either. And no, it doesn't matter if it's in your ToS.
What if Blizzard changed their WoW subscribtion to suddenly not include WoW and instead allowed their users to visit a premium member forum for that instead and hope everyone doesn't cancel? Do you think that would be legal?
On February 03 2012 14:35 6BiT wrote: So after reading this thread I see that MLG have made a couple of changes to their Silver membership (a good change), made an announcement about the change. Told you to cancel subscription if you didn't like the change (to the game battles thing), even told told you how to get a refund if they renewed recently... and a bunch of people are calling them retards ?
get a clue
i have been paying for a year now with their auto-renew, which i never actually signed up for by the way (it was automatic and i found out when they charged my credit card). thats beside the point though. they took my money on 1/30/12 for the silver membership, which includes HD. then, i get an email today saying "just kidding. you dont get shit! oh, and if you want your money back, do this and this and that." thats utter bullshit. i am still going to pay for MLG's gold pass because $30 is a good deal, but wtf MLG. dont treat your customers like this. i would be tempted to say im going to boycott them, but that would just mean i dont get to watch. IPL is a much better tournament; if they become a competitor, im likely gone from mlg.
On February 03 2012 14:35 6BiT wrote: So after reading this thread I see that MLG have made a couple of changes to their Silver membership (a good change), made an announcement about the change. Told you to cancel subscription if you didn't like the change (to the game battles thing), even told told you how to get a refund if they renewed recently... and a bunch of people are calling them retards ?
get a clue
The email didn't include the refund path, hence the outcry.
On February 03 2012 14:35 6BiT wrote: So after reading this thread I see that MLG have made a couple of changes to their Silver membership (a good change), made an announcement about the change. Told you to cancel subscription if you didn't like the change (to the game battles thing), even told told you how to get a refund if they renewed recently... and a bunch of people are calling them retards ?
get a clue
The email didn't include the refund path, hence the outcry.
Any business that's about money would do it like this.
a) You're pissed at the email but don't care enough to do stuff about it -> moar $$ b) You're pissed at the email, google around and find out that you can get your subscription money back -> the company can tell everyone that they're offering a great service to your customers by offering that option so easily accessible.
Not saying that I approve of it, but charging people who are lazy more when it comes to subscriptions isn't exactly a new concept.
On February 03 2012 14:35 6BiT wrote: So after reading this thread I see that MLG have made a couple of changes to their Silver membership (a good change), made an announcement about the change. Told you to cancel subscription if you didn't like the change (to the game battles thing), even told told you how to get a refund if they renewed recently... and a bunch of people are calling them retards ?
get a clue
The email didn't include the refund path, hence the outcry.
On February 03 2012 14:35 6BiT wrote: So after reading this thread I see that MLG have made a couple of changes to their Silver membership (a good change), made an announcement about the change. Told you to cancel subscription if you didn't like the change (to the game battles thing), even told told you how to get a refund if they renewed recently... and a bunch of people are calling them retards ?
get a clue
You sir.. are totally missing the point. Follow the trail.. what you just laid out is not only NOT close to how it all went down.. it is not the real issue here. A MLG Fanboy or not.. this is an issue that bothers many people and if it was your bank or another 'real life' organization and you were not a 'fanboy'.. it would bother you too. It is something that needs addressed. Just saying.. 'Oh well.. we didn't mean for it to be like that or someone pushed the wrong button'... does not change the fact that it was in very poor taste and in most cases could be considered illegal. I love a lot of what MLG does and Sundance is a great guy.. and I suspect that his investors are pulling on the belt a bit... but there was a much more professional way to handle this.
I log in and see that I have a silver membership, set to renew on Feb 19th. Ok, so I want to upgrade to Gold, I click the button that says upgrade to gold, and I get a message from the store that the item no longer exists.
Ok, so I look through the store to find the gold membership, and I cannot find it,
Why is it this difficult to upgrade my account? Do I need to cancel my silver membership before I can order a gold?
Seems really unprofessional that they change it all like this and then make it such a pain in the ass to sort out.
On February 03 2012 23:02 Pure-SC2 wrote: Man, the MLG site is frustrating me to no end.
I log in and see that I have a silver membership, set to renew on Feb 19th. Ok, so I want to upgrade to Gold, I click the button that says upgrade to gold, and I get a message from the store that the item no longer exists.
Ok, so I look through the store to find the gold membership, and I cannot find it,
Why is it this difficult to upgrade my account? Do I need to cancel my silver membership before I can order a gold?
Seems really unprofessional that they change it all like this and then make it such a pain in the ass to sort out.
I had the same problem when they announced the Columbus spectator passes being on sale. I ended up having to go to my local Gamestop and purchase a Gold Membership card there. I am paranoid that they are going to release some sort of "Platinum Membership" this time which allows you to meet players and stuff.... but who knows!
Ah, I don't get it. Cancelled my silver membership, tried to buy a gold but no option in the store.
Based on that it looks like no online option for gold at this time. Hopefully some more info will come out about how we can watch SC2 HQ, but I'm guessing it will come in at a higher price point than silver, otherwise it makes no sense to change it because they've just had a bunch of people cancel their memberships.
On February 03 2012 14:43 Hall0wed wrote: So many haters in this thread. People around here don't have a level head when posting in topics like this.
Their stuff is reasonable and they put out the best tournament/content in the world outside of the GSL. People need more respect really.
I like MLG. I suspect I've been a fan of theirs for longer than you have.
Doesn't change the fact that selling a service which you then decide not to give and then only giving a refund if it's specifically requested is completely unacceptable and is even illegal.
My MLG account dates back to February 2005. I can link it if you really need me to, I was a huge Halo fan back in the day. I suggest not starting off your replies with things like that in the future, assumptions like that are no fun. ^_^
Ah, my account was August 2005 I believe.
I specifically said "I suspect" because obviously I couldn't know. However, it's pretty obvious that I have been part of the MLG community for far longer than almost everyone else posting here, just as you have.
I hope I'll be able to buy a gold pass without the need of a credit card attached to my paypal. (Since, simply I don't own a credit card and won't get one any time soon). 30 dollar for a whole year of HD livestream and VODS is a pretty good deal.
Now add a third option please... If one option is gamebattles only, and one is both, we need an option for streams only. they will be hurting themselves by forcing stream viewers to pay for the whole package (even if it isnt too expensive).
I just contacted MLG Membership about getting a refund. I renewed my silver membership on January 29th, and the announcement was a few days after. Since I have no interest in the Gamebattles content I asked for a refund. By the end of the day my credit card had been refunded the money I spent.
The change sucks, but inquire about getting your money back. MLG was incredibly helpful to me.
On February 04 2012 01:13 Tristy wrote: Now add a third option please... If one option is gamebattles only, and one is both, we need an option for streams only. they will be hurting themselves by forcing stream viewers to pay for the whole package (even if it isnt too expensive).
This thinking was the main reason behind this transition. We want to enable our fans to buy only what they are interested in. There will be products based solely around online streaming in HD prior to our first Event.
For those of you who are attempting to upgrade to Gold membership, the product is currently only available in GameStop and Toys "R" Us stores in the United States. Rest assured, we will have other options available online prior to our first Event of the year for our International fans and for those who don't have access to the stores mentioned above or who prefer to purchase online.
Thanks for your continued support.
Our site will be updated next week when these changes are officially made. The e-mail was sent in order to give our customers a heads up about the upcoming changes.
On February 04 2012 00:51 Seiniyta wrote: I hope I'll be able to buy a gold pass without the need of a credit card attached to my paypal. (Since, simply I don't own a credit card and won't get one any time soon). 30 dollar for a whole year of HD livestream and VODS is a pretty good deal.
Uh, what? Doesn't your bank issue a debit card attached to your account?
On February 04 2012 01:13 Tristy wrote: Now add a third option please... If one option is gamebattles only, and one is both, we need an option for streams only. they will be hurting themselves by forcing stream viewers to pay for the whole package (even if it isnt too expensive).
This thinking was the main reason behind this transition. We want to enable our fans to buy only what they are interested in. There will be products based solely around online streaming in HD prior to our first Event.
For those of you who are attempting to upgrade to Gold membership, the product is currently only available in GameStop and Toys "R" Us stores in the United States. Rest assured, we will have other options available online prior to our first Event of the year for our International fans and for those who don't have access to the stores mentioned above or who prefer to purchase online.
Thanks for your continued support.
Our site will be updated next week when these changes are officially made. The e-mail was sent in order to give our customers a heads up about the upcoming changes.
Appreciate the time you are taking to make this clear though maybe getting some of it cleared up all in one place would be something to do for next time. Live and Learn eh? All this fallout can be avoided next time.
This being said I look forward to buying the MLG stream only option
On February 03 2012 03:04 Xcobidoo wrote: The point he is making is that they are changing something that you are currently subscribed to, without your consent
exactly and thats just not legal.
i doubt they broke any laws,
granted, its not the right thing to do. but as long as MLG refunds people who request it, I don't really see any issue.
It is legal as long as the public is informed, and there is reasonable time to react. This was a legal move.
this is why people shouldnt rely on legal advice on the internet.
it is ILLEGAL, at least in countries with customer laws like germany. since customer right's here require a DOUBLE OPT IN. an OPT OUT is always illegal and you can just ignore the "contract" (there is none).
On February 04 2012 00:51 Seiniyta wrote: I hope I'll be able to buy a gold pass without the need of a credit card attached to my paypal. (Since, simply I don't own a credit card and won't get one any time soon). 30 dollar for a whole year of HD livestream and VODS is a pretty good deal.
Uh, what? Doesn't your bank issue a debit card attached to your account?
Doesn't work over here, I have a bank account attached to my paypal, but I have to still manually go to the website of my bank and send the money over to my paypal.
That's fine for e-bay payments etc, but doesn't work with subscription based stuff, because the silver/gold renews automatically unless you decide to cancel it.
On February 04 2012 06:42 dizzy101 wrote: I'd like a one-time-pay option per tourney. I always forget to cancel, so never sign up for anything that automatically subtracts funds.
You will have that option this year, just like it was available last year.
On February 04 2012 01:13 Tristy wrote: Now add a third option please... If one option is gamebattles only, and one is both, we need an option for streams only. they will be hurting themselves by forcing stream viewers to pay for the whole package (even if it isnt too expensive).
This thinking was the main reason behind this transition. We want to enable our fans to buy only what they are interested in. There will be products based solely around online streaming in HD prior to our first Event.
For those of you who are attempting to upgrade to Gold membership, the product is currently only available in GameStop and Toys "R" Us stores in the United States. Rest assured, we will have other options available online prior to our first Event of the year for our International fans and for those who don't have access to the stores mentioned above or who prefer to purchase online.
Thanks for your continued support.
Our site will be updated next week when these changes are officially made. The e-mail was sent in order to give our customers a heads up about the upcoming changes.
Can you please explain to me why the Official MLG email I received concerning the changes in terms of my MLg membership did not mention that I could seek a refund by emailing MLG support as is noted in the MOD edit in the OP?
Why do I have to come to TL to get complete information? It seems like you just wanted to keep my 10 bucks.
Really disappointing and shady business move IMO. While I know the importance of sustaining a business and not relying solely on sponsorship's for income, screwing over your most dedicated customer base is extremely risky. I also don't see why an event would limit viewable streams when exposure is what brings in new potential clients. Plus even more to the point, I'm still confused with their new event model... I liked the circuit cuz it gave me the chance to have an event near where I live(within driving distance 3+/- hours)
Could someone give me a link to getting 1 year of gold for $30? Every time I visit, since last year, Gold has been sold out >.> So I've been mooching off of Free Silver, but without HD Free Silver isn't even worth it.
On February 04 2012 07:06 ShatterZer0 wrote: Could someone give me a link to getting 1 year of gold for $30? Every time I visit, since last year, Gold has been sold out >.> So I've been mooching off of Free Silver, but without HD Free Silver isn't even worth it.
A page or two back MLG Kyle said Gold is currently only available at the retail stores he mentioned earlier (in the OP now) but that they have plans for other payments methods which will be out before their first championship event.
On February 04 2012 07:06 ShatterZer0 wrote: Could someone give me a link to getting 1 year of gold for $30? Every time I visit, since last year, Gold has been sold out >.> So I've been mooching off of Free Silver, but without HD Free Silver isn't even worth it.
A page or two back MLG Kyle said Gold is currently only available at the retail stores he mentioned earlier (in the OP now) but that they have plans for other payments methods which will be out before their first championship event.
On February 09 2012 06:52 Thor2277 wrote: I just sent my 2nd email demanding my refund. I got no response the first time and MLG is starting to piss me off with their service.
I have a similar horror story... My first clue that I was headed for trouble was the dual function of the email application. I found that upon clicking send it told me it had not yet sent my message and first offered some related FAQs based on the content of the message. Then I actually got to choose if I had found my answer or if I still needed to send the email! I mean, how dare they give me tools and chance to answer my own question with search? But that was only the tip of the iceberg! Now that I had sent my request for a refund it was time to wait.
And wait I did. While I was waiting my mind would wander back to a similar attempt to get an xbox live account cancelled and refunded. On that occasion I was denied my refund after speaking with several departments and supervisors. This didn't help the waiting go any faster. Finally, after TWO whole minutes, I received a reply! Answering emails the same day? Oh I'm sorry, I thought this was America?!? It also stated my membership was cancelled and I would see my refund in 3-5 business days. This was a flat out lie however and I received it in ONLY ONE DAY! Can you believe that shit? I mean what kind of company does something like that?
Definitely ruining esports. I will be making a trip to at least one event this season in order to voice my complaints in person.
where is my money MLG? it has been a week since i demanded a refund. people should check to see if they are actually following through with their promise to refund money....
On February 10 2012 03:45 dAPhREAk wrote: where is my money MLG? it has been a week since i demanded a refund. people should check to see if they are actually following through with their promise to refund money....
i wrote them again and they reversed it the same day. restoring a little bit of confidence.... will buy gold pass still....
EPT
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