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On September 07 2012 13:28 PauseBreak wrote:
Honestly, if the Carrier is so great why don't we see it more in high level pro games? Rarely, does it ever make an appearance.
Either fix the Carrier or just remove it.
Because they're an extreme late-game unit, which isn't a common point to hit? You do see them pretty often in ultra-late PvZ.
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On September 07 2012 13:28 PauseBreak wrote:
Honestly, if the Carrier is so great why don't we see it more in high level pro games? Rarely, does it ever make an appearance.
Either fix the Carrier or just remove it.
You don't see much of void rays either. Yet they aren't doing anything with them.
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On September 07 2012 14:00 Skwid1g wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 13:28 PauseBreak wrote:
Honestly, if the Carrier is so great why don't we see it more in high level pro games? Rarely, does it ever make an appearance.
Either fix the Carrier or just remove it. Because they're an extreme late-game unit, which isn't a common point to hit? You do see them pretty often in ultra-late PvZ.
Huh, really? Interesting.
I'm always up for a carrier reintroduction. Sooooo many amazing memories from BW with carriers. Maybe, just maybe in LotV or something they will try to squeeze a revised/workable/superbly and supremely amazing version in and reintroduce it, as it's supposedly the "protoss" expansion after all. 
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On September 07 2012 14:00 Skwid1g wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 13:28 PauseBreak wrote:
Honestly, if the Carrier is so great why don't we see it more in high level pro games? Rarely, does it ever make an appearance.
Either fix the Carrier or just remove it. Because they're an extreme late-game unit, which isn't a common point to hit? You do see them pretty often in ultra-late PvZ.
No, you don't see Carriers because they're hard to transition to, cost an obscene amount of money and are easily countered. Terrans always make Marines/Vikings vs P, thanks to the Larvae mechanic Zerg can just instantly remax on Corruptors which demolish Carriers and if you go Carriers in pvp you're already dead
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I've been watching the HoTS games a lot and most of the time when I see a P player invest in Tempests.. shit goes downhill fast. Carriers are great support for a gateway army, more so than the tempests. Let's face it, you're adding a stalker that can fire from the rear for 300/300/6. I'd just rather have 3 more stalkers.
Carriers arent something you mass at the end of the game, if you manage to be able to do that, you probably won already, but still, having a few with the army adding to the dps is great with a templar/gateway army. What does the tempest do? Waste supply and resources.
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with storm support it is also not really easy to engage the carrier with anti air easily, because it will bring you into storm range. if you split, carrier cloud will destroy you losing shields, if you clump, storm will poke you. And carriers are really good at protecting templars, because of the burst damage they do.
If you know how to recall your interceptors, it becomes really deadly.
As for the tempest, it is basically a carrier with everything removed, except the ability to do damage when nothing else can. A Carrier can fly in range attack and retreat while the interceptors deal damage. The Tempest can simply sit in safe distance, so less risk involved. But its just bad at direct engagements.
The Tempest is not a bad unit, but it is a true devil for entertainment. Toss is ahead by a bit. Can seal off base with canons and hts, so harassment is no option anymore. The toss army is also strong and packed away in a terrible to attack position. Now the single tempest over the army comes into play. Gets out its spoon and slowly pokes the opponent, till they simply go insane and attack and lose so much of their resources, while you can remax really easily.
It works similar to gold bases for a zerg(or the other races too). If the zerg manages to get ahead and contain the opponent for a bit, they take the gold for an instant increase of income, without wasting supply on workers.
But it is nice that the tempest has no need for 3/3 like the carrier does. Still i dislike units like the tempest that break the ability of comebacks.
I must admit though the current Tempest makes it really fun to play protoss, just the one tempest to annoy the opponent and at some point everyone attacks your perfect setup army and melts. (after they notice that canons and storms can hold of everything that is no full army.)
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I don't hate the concept of the tempest. It's good for harass and to poke/force engagments, but for the current cost? No way in hell. For the cost, id sooner have a carrier. Make it cheaper, or add dmg and splash. Or give it something to justify to the cost because right now.. i dont think it's worth it at all
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On September 07 2012 17:25 hooahah wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 14:00 Skwid1g wrote:On September 07 2012 13:28 PauseBreak wrote:
Honestly, if the Carrier is so great why don't we see it more in high level pro games? Rarely, does it ever make an appearance.
Either fix the Carrier or just remove it. Because they're an extreme late-game unit, which isn't a common point to hit? You do see them pretty often in ultra-late PvZ. No, you don't see Carriers because they're hard to transition to, cost an obscene amount of money and are easily countered. Terrans always make Marines/Vikings vs P, thanks to the Larvae mechanic Zerg can just instantly remax on Corruptors which demolish Carriers and if you go Carriers in pvp you're already dead
Stop hating, it was already proven that you can use high templars to defend carriers from corruptors, infestors, marines and vikings.
This thread is to fight for the carrier, we want it back. If you don't want to contribute then don't post here.
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seriously why dont we just keep both of the units?
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Question. Why do interceptors cost money?
Broodlings are free.
Infested Marines are free.
Those locust things are free.
Sup wit dat?
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On September 07 2012 23:39 KingAce wrote:
Question. Why do interceptors cost money?
Broodlings are free.
Infested Marines are free.
Those locust things are free.
Sup wit dat?
Comes from a BW balance, control group of carriers is ridiculously powerful when microed even more. So there are TWO ways of dealing with it, either you catch carriers with your goliaths so you can deal massiveamount of demage to the ship itself. Remember sometimes you may be zoned out and its almost impossible to catch carriers itself or it will be too cost inneficient.
OR
you starve protoss economically by shooting incerceptors (hold position goliaths), kill his bases and he will die from having full group of useless supply
Why it costs money in SC2 and why nothing ever changed about carrier in sc2, dunno. Seems like they brought this unit for legacy purpose and then wanted to kill it, because they didnt even try or propose anything.
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Don't get why Blizzard feels the need to take the carrier away, why not just keep it and let people decide what they want to build. Worst scenario is that people don't build tempests, and if that happens, well then the Tempest needs to be changed/replaced or whatever.
Really don't like when units are taken away
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Blizz seems it reasonable to buff BC for them to stay in use.
why not just try that for carriers too in beta.
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On September 07 2012 23:22 Adonminus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 17:25 hooahah wrote:On September 07 2012 14:00 Skwid1g wrote:On September 07 2012 13:28 PauseBreak wrote:
Honestly, if the Carrier is so great why don't we see it more in high level pro games? Rarely, does it ever make an appearance.
Either fix the Carrier or just remove it. Because they're an extreme late-game unit, which isn't a common point to hit? You do see them pretty often in ultra-late PvZ. No, you don't see Carriers because they're hard to transition to, cost an obscene amount of money and are easily countered. Terrans always make Marines/Vikings vs P, thanks to the Larvae mechanic Zerg can just instantly remax on Corruptors which demolish Carriers and if you go Carriers in pvp you're already dead Stop hating, it was already proven that you can use high templars to defend carriers from corruptors, infestors, marines and vikings. This thread is to fight for the carrier, we want it back. If you don't want to contribute then don't post here.
Sorry but corruptors demolish carriers, thought that's an issue of a metagame where zerg as a race hits a giant economy and produces 30 corruptors all at once with infestors already out to back them up. Carriers will be much more well suited in a new HotS metagame where Protoss has more harass options. The shitty irony is that any perceived success from the tempest PvZ in HotS come from this same metagame difference. The Tempest would be rolled 2x harder in the current WoL meta game.
Carriers in PvP and PvT are reserved for maximum ballers, though.
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I'd suggest that all beta participants who want the carrier to stay give according feedback.
If Blizzard insists on keeping the tempest, it should replace the void ray imo (in toned down version). It could fill the anti-massive role just as well (it did in previous builds actually) in addition to being a long range harrasser (the 22 range upgrade can stay on fleet beacon to avoid it becoming OP). That way they introduce this positional harrassment they wanted to introduce and we could keep our beloved Carrier.
The Carrier would also fit in really really well in HotS I believe, as Stargate tech seems a lot more viable. I'd be so sad to see it go.
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On September 08 2012 06:22 ACrow wrote:
I'd suggest that all beta participants who want the carrier to stay give according feedback.
If Blizzard insists on keeping the tempest, it should replace the void ray imo (in toned down version). It could fill the anti-massive role just as well (it did in previous builds actually) in addition to being a long range harrasser (the 22 range upgrade can stay on fleet beacon to avoid it becoming OP). That way they introduce this positional harrassment they wanted to introduce and we could keep our beloved Carrier.
The Carrier would also fit in really really well in HotS I believe, as Stargate tech seems a lot more viable. I'd be so sad to see it go.
My thoughts exactly.
Do we have to all post on bnet forums? Or is there another way, like a petition.
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On September 08 2012 06:22 ACrow wrote:
I'd suggest that all beta participants who want the carrier to stay give according feedback.
If Blizzard insists on keeping the tempest, it should replace the void ray imo (in toned down version). It could fill the anti-massive role just as well (it did in previous builds actually) in addition to being a long range harrasser (the 22 range upgrade can stay on fleet beacon to avoid it becoming OP). That way they introduce this positional harrassment they wanted to introduce and we could keep our beloved Carrier.
The Carrier would also fit in really really well in HotS I believe, as Stargate tech seems a lot more viable. I'd be so sad to see it go.
I second the tempest replacing void ray. I really dislike the void ray as a spectator unit as I think it is very uninteresting to watch with little ability to really wow a player and make things exciting like you see with other units from time to time (except that one time where I saw one player actually charge up a void ray on a proxy gateway which was interesting).
I don't mind the tempest, and I like the uniqueness behind its design, but I think carriers require just a little buff and a metagame switch to be great. I think they would be able to coexist easily. Not to mention watching games in BW or SC2 where carriers arrive always get me excited.
The only thing I wonder about is Corruptors vs Carriers, only because of how easily corruptors are for zerg to make and the damage and health makes them counters to carriers which they can get even before most protoss are able to get carriers. Even if the corruption in HOTS is taken out (I havent been following hots closely enough to know all the little changes), I think corruptors would still make carriers' lives hard, but I would love to be proven wrong, even as a zerg player.
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I feel like a good solution is to bring the carrier back in with the recent ninja 1.5 buffs, and scale down the Tempest into more on par with a siege tank. So make it smaller, cost 150/125 or something and 3 supply, have a 12 to 14 range naturally doing a little less damage, and slower accelleration speed. That way, Blizzard can have it's cake and we can eat it too
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I think a good reason to keep carriers IS that it is rare. Think about it, when someone in a pro game actually goes carriers, the crowd LOVES it. If we get a unit that 1. is super common and 2. has a range so long that you can't even see any action, it ruins the spectating. :\
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your Country52798 Posts
On January 26 2012 09:40 The_Templar wrote:
I, sir (or ma'am, whichever you may be), will assist you in fighting for our beloved carrier.
Let me know where you need me, executor.
This still stands! Where shall I be of assistance?
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EPT
