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On January 02 2012 23:06 Vekalisk wrote:
There are a rare few that continue to post through the bullshit, but what's the point really if they're just going to get morons criticising them. I hate it how these people go out of their way to try and help the lower levels and get flamed, I'd personally like to hear why someone's strategy might be invalid from a pro rather than a self-proclaimed strategy guru that barely plays the game.
IMO the problem is the all too commonly believed myth that it is possible to understand the game without being good at it. "I am in gold league but I watch the game a lot so I have a good understanding of it." "I know what to do, I just don't have the mechanics." As a result, you have people who know nothing about the game trying to argue with pros.
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On January 02 2012 22:45 dignitas.merz wrote:
Pretty much what IdrA said and KawaiiRice even demonstrated with a link. You're either lost in a sea of non-sense or you get targetted and flamed/argued with for reasons that make no sense.
To be honest, this isn't specific to pros at all; just see what kind of non-sense you can see when you talk about strategy with (clueless) random posters. It was about no wall in TvZ + Show Spoiler [Arena of Legends Group A] +after MKP got demolished two times in a row because he did not bother to wall off... And still, against the blatant evidence, this guy was talking about how not walling in TvZ was supposedly a brilliant strategy and such.
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On January 02 2012 23:20 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 23:06 Vekalisk wrote:
There are a rare few that continue to post through the bullshit, but what's the point really if they're just going to get morons criticising them. I hate it how these people go out of their way to try and help the lower levels and get flamed, I'd personally like to hear why someone's strategy might be invalid from a pro rather than a self-proclaimed strategy guru that barely plays the game.
IMO the problem is the all too commonly believed myth that it is possible to understand the game without being good at it. "I am in gold league but I watch the game a lot so I have a good understanding of it." "I know what to do, I just don't have the mechanics." As a result, you have people who know nothing about the game trying to argue with pros.
i think its kinda because of sc2/new games design aspect, when you are gold/plat/diamond you think you just lack few things but generally you are brilliant, "i only need to sort few things and soon ill hit proscene!!1" In BW it kinda feels you are trash and you yourself feel it also :p In sc2 its always that ah if i did this right i would totally pwn... which is of course an illusion.
Everyone who played/tried to play/do something on near/semi proffesional level knows how long it takes to be "okayish" and how long it takes to be really good/one of the best (if ever). Its just people love to live in illusion, but when i recollect my experiences with different games and "stages" of experience... Its always like that, people after few years always look back and see how bad/idiotic they were, sc2 is still new and most people feel like they can be vocal about it. Which generally means flood of bad informations.
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On January 02 2012 23:20 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 23:06 Vekalisk wrote:
There are a rare few that continue to post through the bullshit, but what's the point really if they're just going to get morons criticising them. I hate it how these people go out of their way to try and help the lower levels and get flamed, I'd personally like to hear why someone's strategy might be invalid from a pro rather than a self-proclaimed strategy guru that barely plays the game.
IMO the problem is the all too commonly believed myth that it is possible to understand the game without being good at it. "I am in gold league but I watch the game a lot so I have a good understanding of it." "I know what to do, I just don't have the mechanics." As a result, you have people who know nothing about the game trying to argue with pros.
Newbs should just be quiet and stop arguing with better players. It's not going to help anyone. Actually, stop arguing at all and start playing the game. Just saying.
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On January 02 2012 23:20 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 23:06 Vekalisk wrote:
There are a rare few that continue to post through the bullshit, but what's the point really if they're just going to get morons criticising them. I hate it how these people go out of their way to try and help the lower levels and get flamed, I'd personally like to hear why someone's strategy might be invalid from a pro rather than a self-proclaimed strategy guru that barely plays the game.
IMO the problem is the all too commonly believed myth that it is possible to understand the game without being good at it. "I am in gold league but I watch the game a lot so I have a good understanding of it." "I know what to do, I just don't have the mechanics." As a result, you have people who know nothing about the game trying to argue with pros.
Yea great post. The general diamond-masters TL poster saying stuff sounds like bronze scrubs arguing about balance to pros. They don't post often for the same reason everyone on TL stopped posting on starcraft2.com.
But, I'd say the reason pros don't post is because posting and following threads takes an enormous amount of time. The time it takes to write a good post, could have been spent playing 2-3 games practicing how to hold 4 gate, or 2 rax. It really, really kills your time to play if you are posting on the forums. You can't really be both an active, every day poster and a pro player, you just don't have the time.
I'm sure they lurk though, maybe some of them lurk a lot. You also don't want to exactly tarnish your rep arguing on the forums, everyone was wrong about the game anyways a year ago, and not everyone is a likable poster.
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Its not going to help. Information is only useful if you have the proper framework for processing it. This means you're going to have to have a pre-developped body of information which can only be done by you. If you don't, then you're going to miss the point.
However, its always interesting to read up.
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Posting on TL is so high level they know using lurker is the best tech, and because they are pro they use hold lurker to make imba post
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On January 02 2012 22:54 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 22:25 Gamegene wrote:i wonder if pros have smurfs on TL. On January 02 2012 21:34 GrungyMunchy wrote:On January 02 2012 18:44 Gamegene wrote:
lol it shouldn't really be surprising.
just look at incontrol: one post and everyone jumps on the bandwagon, quotes him and pretends they're best friends. it's like twitter (annoying).
or they decide to take the moment to draw attention, criticize him and call him an idiot.
"AHA! GOTCHA!" + Show Spoiler +On January 02 2012 19:03 FryktSkyene wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:00 IdrA wrote:On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere? people are obnoxious imbeciles ;D I love you On January 02 2012 19:08 bgx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:00 IdrA wrote:On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere? people are obnoxious imbeciles coincided with SC2 release :D On January 02 2012 19:10 GiMMiK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:00 IdrA wrote:On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere? people are obnoxious imbeciles Couldn't have said it better myself.  Hahaha nice one. LOL. SELF DEMONSTRATING THREAD. of course pros have alt accounts. Tyler has an alt called Nony(yes for real a 3k post probe) IdrA had idrajit when he was perm'd the first time(idrajit is permed when his main account got unpermd) hell even our mods have alts...like baller...
not exactly alt accounts. secret smurf accounts that can't be recognized.
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On January 02 2012 18:23 Grobyc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 18:19 T.O.P. wrote:
Back in the broodwar days, Idra used to post a lot. He's one of the few writing good posts in the strategy forum. SC2 came and he no longer cares.  + Show Spoiler +
Nony still posts, look in the LoL forums. TLLoL?
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On January 02 2012 23:10 iaguz wrote:
Reading some of incontrols.... discussions with people should give you a really good idea why most pros don't bother to post shit a lot of the time.
There are a lot of little fuckers out there and it's hardly worth it
Ok. I think we need to stop here and take charge of something we love. TL.
I can understand the general sentiment among the professional players that posting will expose them to a lot of opinions (both positive/negative and too positive/ too negative) purely based on their popularity.
That is a shame! It is a fucking shame that a lot of people are not able to appreciate input and insights from players who do not need to do this. I think the fact that there is still so much communication between the "big ones" and the rest of the community is what makes it so much fun and is one of the reasons why so many people actively contribute to the community. Because they know everyone is contributing above and beyond what they need to, even the pros!
As I said before: It is a shame that some people don't seem to be able to appreciate this.
Now finally coming to the quote:
This sort of resignation is the worst kind of answer to the people who do not show appreciation for the interactions and communication from the pillars of our community. "It's hardly worth it" is the worst thing you can say. This community is definitely worth it and people saying it's not do a worse job than those expressing their "imbecile" opinions.
A great majority of us wants to hear from the pros and only a few want to just "own" a pro in an argument (can't even call it an argument most of the time). Why would we bow to the few f(iretr)uckers?
I say we encourage all pros to post and show 'em some respect (and that doesn't necessarily mean "Yes, I love you." or "You are always right. I want your babies"). I think we're worth it! + Show Spoiler +
Jojo
Oh and by the way. I think the TL mods are doing quite a good job at reacting to people insulting pros. Thx!
Edit: The wookie
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On January 02 2012 20:12 DarKFoRcE wrote:
i agree with what idra said, i used to post quite regularly in the strategy forum, but i just cant be arsed to waste my time to argue with people who have no clue about the game, but great overestimate their knowledge. but they get super pissed when i tell them that they are just completely wrong.
Um. I am a high diamond - low master MMR player that played a pro in a tournament once. I think I know what I'm talking about!
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Perhaps a subforum for pros only would make a better environment for them to get a little more active again, since now they would just be arguing with people with around the same game understanding as them.
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I suck at this game and I avoid the strategy forums like the plague... say one thing that's counter to the popular belief and you get labeled a "troll" or a "bronzie". Imagine how much more frustrating it is for pros to have people questioning their game knowledge as if they don't play the game for a living... TL should really just make a "Pros Only" strategy forum where only accredited posters can discuss. The rest of us noobs can be happy reading their discussions instead of mucking them up with stupid know-it-all attitudes.
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This forum needs more elitism in my opinion.
No one under Master League should be able to post in the strategy section (except maybe in the help me threads of each race). Or the strategy section should be split in two sections, Masters/GMs and another section for Diamond and under.
Would make a lot more sense to me, kind of like the poker forums, you don't want NL10 players commenting on an NL2k hands.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On January 02 2012 23:45 Odal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 20:12 DarKFoRcE wrote:
i agree with what idra said, i used to post quite regularly in the strategy forum, but i just cant be arsed to waste my time to argue with people who have no clue about the game, but great overestimate their knowledge. but they get super pissed when i tell them that they are just completely wrong. Um. I am a high diamond - low master MMR player that played a pro in a tournament once. I think I know what I'm talking about!
Please write a blog bro
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On January 03 2012 00:08 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 23:45 Odal wrote:On January 02 2012 20:12 DarKFoRcE wrote:
i agree with what idra said, i used to post quite regularly in the strategy forum, but i just cant be arsed to waste my time to argue with people who have no clue about the game, but great overestimate their knowledge. but they get super pissed when i tell them that they are just completely wrong. Um. I am a high diamond - low master MMR player that played a pro in a tournament once. I think I know what I'm talking about! Please write a blog bro
I think (hope) you got leveled (and myabe i'm being counter leveled, oh gosh)
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I love how people want eSports to be mainstream, and continue to grow but then are surprised when the natural progression that comes with that growth happens. You can't have it both ways, players that are getting more and more popular/famous and still have that personal interaction to the same degree as say TL BW or early SC2 prior to the popularity boom.
How many pros in other sports post on fan forums? You don't see an NFL quarterback on their team's fan website Monday morning trying to explain to fans why they ran the ball on 3rd and 1 instead of passing. As eSports grow and the players become more popular the interaction becomes more extreme - in both directions - with huge trolling/flaming and die hard fan love and both are annoying. It makes trying to interact with the fans on a website like this frustrating, if not impossible. And even through it is only a few people that ruin it for everyone, that number of "few people ruining it" just increase as the player/eSport popularity increases. I'm not even a pro by any means and I can hardly stand to read through the increased amount of garbage these days on TL, with the ridiculous player comments and people that constantly post about things they have no clue on(even things outside the game itself) and continue to argue just for the sake of arguing/trolling. I could just imagine what it would be like if I knew some of that was directed at me personally.
As a competitive player it gets to the point where only someone with super thick skin can even read the forum, and it is better for the mental side to just steer clear. It would be like walking through a dangerous part of town with fancy jewelry on and being surprised when you get mugged, why try to post or interact on the forum when you know the response will just be frustrating/flaming/personal attacks/argument.
The pros in eSports will continue to get their messages out in better medium that offer more protection and a better pedestal for their thoughts other than fan forums. Places like SOTG, personal interviews by professional media types, articles on team websites are places that pros can interact with the fans with some protection of not being flamed or having to sift through all the BS yet still get a message out. It isn't that they won't post here but it will continue to be less and less, it is no different than any other sport in that regard.
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On January 02 2012 23:54 Apolo wrote:
Perhaps a subforum for pros only would make a better environment for them to get a little more active again, since now they would just be arguing with people with around the same game understanding as them.
I love the idea but TL would have to figure out if it would be worth administrating/maintaining the privileges of pro to do that... I would recommend saying Experts, if they would include non players like some Casters or Coaches/Managers of Teams to be able to post in those forums as well...
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i noticed idra picked up on the 4 queen opener too. i was wondering where that came from. he uses it on the korean ladder. gives a bit more defense vs hellions, using larvae for drones instead of lings, and allows very fast creep spread. really nice imo.
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On January 02 2012 23:54 Apolo wrote:
Perhaps a subforum for pros only would make a better environment for them to get a little more active again, since now they would just be arguing with people with around the same game understanding as them.
Why would they do that when they're doin it all day long with other pros, they dont need forums to talk with each other rofl
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z407/sc2channel/401249_10150453241822968_514567967_8714109_1343929630_n.jpg)
