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On January 02 2012 23:54 Apolo wrote:
Perhaps a subforum for pros only would make a better environment for them to get a little more active again, since now they would just be arguing with people with around the same game understanding as them.
I don't really feel like it is the purpose of teamliquid. It's a community website afterall and it would really feel "elitist" for a lot of new peoples (altho i don't particularly mind it).
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On January 02 2012 23:20 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 23:06 Vekalisk wrote:
There are a rare few that continue to post through the bullshit, but what's the point really if they're just going to get morons criticising them. I hate it how these people go out of their way to try and help the lower levels and get flamed, I'd personally like to hear why someone's strategy might be invalid from a pro rather than a self-proclaimed strategy guru that barely plays the game.
IMO the problem is the all too commonly believed myth that it is possible to understand the game without being good at it. "I am in gold league but I watch the game a lot so I have a good understanding of it." "I know what to do, I just don't have the mechanics." As a result, you have people who know nothing about the game trying to argue with pros.
Yeah exactly, definitely agree with you here.
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On January 02 2012 20:12 DarKFoRcE wrote:
i agree with what idra said, i used to post quite regularly in the strategy forum, but i just cant be arsed to waste my time to argue with people who have no clue about the game, but great overestimate their knowledge. but they get super pissed when i tell them that they are just completely wrong.
darkforce, come back to zerg help me thread.
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If whenever a pro says anything negative about any argument they get tons of shit from retarded people for it then don't expect them to speak their mind in this forum.
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I doubt they lurk much and read a lot (because they don't have time), they just occasionally read and post. And yeah, pretty much all pros and esports personalities have participated on TL at least a little bit. Only Korean pros are significantly less represented on TL, because of the language barrier. But even NaDa was seen on stream once reading TL (and people were worried/excited that he might see the legendary thread about him).
The reason their posts may leave the impression of much deeper observation is that progamers tend to be analytical, and it happens sometimes that their posts are right to the point, cutting the crap, and bringing an important view to the problem. It's not because they spend crapton of time lurking, they can't afford so much lurking and it's not worth their precious time.
edit: There was a special thread that was linking important posts by progamers on TL every week, but I can't find it now...
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Perhaps TL.net should enforce a rule that would punish people arguing with pros in terms of SC2 strategy unless the person has a very in depth analysis using factual information?
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On January 03 2012 00:36 aTnClouD wrote:
If whenever a pro says anything negative about any argument they get tons of shit from retarded people for it then don't expect them to speak their mind in this forum.
Imo ppl (not only pros) need to learn to give a fuck. You will always get shit for something you say from somebody, just that in reallife they might not be around. In the dirty evil interwebz those ppl are the ones who are around 24/7.
I would guess that about 80% of the reading folks on TL will apreciate a comment by pro's.
The problem is that you won't comment on such things with "Thank you for your insight Idra" because thats unnessecary and will probably derail the thread into a fanboy one.
So the only guys sticking out are the ones who need to present themselfs and for that bash some ppl who are more known than they are.
At the end it will look like that every comment after a pro wrote stuff will be a bashing one, when inreality 80% of the readers of the comment have thought "Uhh nice, i like!"
Commenting != Reading
I guess thats why a Strategy-Blog would be better, could even be a strategy-discussion-blog with several pros. But thats just a dream of a lil Dia Nerd :D
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The problem with pros posting is that they just end up getting into arguments with trolls and get called unprofessional every time, obvious example is incontrol, every time he posts he gets insulted, which starts an argument, which ends in everyone calling incontrol unprofessional, not to mention all the shit is posted on reddit and twitter, I suspect if the Starcraft community was a little less like TMZ the pros would be more inclined to post.
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TL is such a different community from the community i frequent...
I would like to see pro's post more and just ignore the ... posts trying to give them grief. easier said than done most likely but still... most people want to hear from the pros and its just the vocal minority that willfully or unwittingly ruin everything
If a pro helps someone in strat thread and others post like nu-uh then its the OP's choice whether to believe the pro who is in top GM or the random plat who "totally would be pro if he had higher apm"
A side note as im not pro (measly diamond) but I usually don't like to post here because its just gets buried :S
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On January 03 2012 01:15 DeekZ wrote:
The problem with pros posting is that they just end up getting into arguments with trolls and get called unprofessional every time, obvious example is incontrol, every time he posts he gets insulted, which starts an argument, which ends in everyone calling incontrol unprofessional, not to mention all the shit is posted on reddit and twitter, I suspect if the Starcraft community was a little less like TMZ the pros would be more inclined to post.
Every internet community is like that or way worse. It's just the way it is and you have to live with it. Ofc it is not pleasant and does not encourage the pros to post more.
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On January 03 2012 01:20 Roggay wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 01:15 DeekZ wrote:
The problem with pros posting is that they just end up getting into arguments with trolls and get called unprofessional every time, obvious example is incontrol, every time he posts he gets insulted, which starts an argument, which ends in everyone calling incontrol unprofessional, not to mention all the shit is posted on reddit and twitter, I suspect if the Starcraft community was a little less like TMZ the pros would be more inclined to post. Every internet community is like that or way worse. It's just the way it is and you have to live with it. Ofc it is not pleasant and does not encourage the pros to post more.
Some internet communities are better or worse than others. And TL is not at all the best when it comes to this, so just saying "live with it", is not a good attitude in my opinion. Its always nice to try to improve instead of just giving in and letting the shit run rampant.
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On January 03 2012 01:17 Meatex wrote:
TL is such a different community from the community i frequent...
I would like to see pro's post more and just ignore the ... posts trying to give them grief. easier said than done most likely but still... most people want to hear from the pros and its just the vocal minority that willfully or unwittingly ruin everything
If a pro helps someone in strat thread and others post like nu-uh then its the OP's choice whether to believe the pro who is in top GM or the random plat who "totally would be pro if he had higher apm"
A side note as im not pro (measly diamond) but I usually don't like to post here because its just gets buried :S
What is this magic community that you frequent in which the skill level of a poster is taken into account ?
The only decently sized sc2 community sites except for tl would be /r starcraft and bnet forms which are complete trash compared to this...
Edit: Could be a non-English form, now that i see your from SK, so in that case excuse me for questioning you such a place existed ;p
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On January 03 2012 01:24 Ravnemesteren wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 01:20 Roggay wrote:On January 03 2012 01:15 DeekZ wrote:
The problem with pros posting is that they just end up getting into arguments with trolls and get called unprofessional every time, obvious example is incontrol, every time he posts he gets insulted, which starts an argument, which ends in everyone calling incontrol unprofessional, not to mention all the shit is posted on reddit and twitter, I suspect if the Starcraft community was a little less like TMZ the pros would be more inclined to post. Every internet community is like that or way worse. It's just the way it is and you have to live with it. Ofc it is not pleasant and does not encourage the pros to post more. Some internet communities are better or worse than others. And TL is not at all the best when it comes to this, so just saying "live with it", is not a good attitude in my opinion. Its always nice to try to improve instead of just giving in and letting the shit run rampant.
Honestly, for a community this big, its really difficult to find something better.
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On January 03 2012 01:27 Roggay wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 01:24 Ravnemesteren wrote:On January 03 2012 01:20 Roggay wrote:On January 03 2012 01:15 DeekZ wrote:
The problem with pros posting is that they just end up getting into arguments with trolls and get called unprofessional every time, obvious example is incontrol, every time he posts he gets insulted, which starts an argument, which ends in everyone calling incontrol unprofessional, not to mention all the shit is posted on reddit and twitter, I suspect if the Starcraft community was a little less like TMZ the pros would be more inclined to post. Every internet community is like that or way worse. It's just the way it is and you have to live with it. Ofc it is not pleasant and does not encourage the pros to post more. Some internet communities are better or worse than others. And TL is not at all the best when it comes to this, so just saying "live with it", is not a good attitude in my opinion. Its always nice to try to improve instead of just giving in and letting the shit run rampant. Honestly, for a community this big, its really difficult to find something better.
So the -world has gone to shit, no point in trying to do anything with it- is a good attitude?
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On January 03 2012 01:29 Ravnemesteren wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 01:27 Roggay wrote:On January 03 2012 01:24 Ravnemesteren wrote:On January 03 2012 01:20 Roggay wrote:On January 03 2012 01:15 DeekZ wrote:
The problem with pros posting is that they just end up getting into arguments with trolls and get called unprofessional every time, obvious example is incontrol, every time he posts he gets insulted, which starts an argument, which ends in everyone calling incontrol unprofessional, not to mention all the shit is posted on reddit and twitter, I suspect if the Starcraft community was a little less like TMZ the pros would be more inclined to post. Every internet community is like that or way worse. It's just the way it is and you have to live with it. Ofc it is not pleasant and does not encourage the pros to post more. Some internet communities are better or worse than others. And TL is not at all the best when it comes to this, so just saying "live with it", is not a good attitude in my opinion. Its always nice to try to improve instead of just giving in and letting the shit run rampant. Honestly, for a community this big, its really difficult to find something better. So the -world has gone to shit, no point in trying to do anything with it- is a good attitude?
It is a realistic attitude atleast. Good for you if you want to be all idealistic about it.
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I think that people should be aware of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled people make poor decisions and reach erroneous conclusions, but their incompetence denies them the metacognitive ability to recognize their mistakes.[1] The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their ability as above average, much higher than it actually is, while the highly skilled underrate their own abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority.
The talk of a higher level forum has been discussed for a long time, I think it's time to implement it.
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On January 03 2012 01:30 Roggay wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 01:29 Ravnemesteren wrote:On January 03 2012 01:27 Roggay wrote:On January 03 2012 01:24 Ravnemesteren wrote:On January 03 2012 01:20 Roggay wrote:On January 03 2012 01:15 DeekZ wrote:
The problem with pros posting is that they just end up getting into arguments with trolls and get called unprofessional every time, obvious example is incontrol, every time he posts he gets insulted, which starts an argument, which ends in everyone calling incontrol unprofessional, not to mention all the shit is posted on reddit and twitter, I suspect if the Starcraft community was a little less like TMZ the pros would be more inclined to post. Every internet community is like that or way worse. It's just the way it is and you have to live with it. Ofc it is not pleasant and does not encourage the pros to post more. Some internet communities are better or worse than others. And TL is not at all the best when it comes to this, so just saying "live with it", is not a good attitude in my opinion. Its always nice to try to improve instead of just giving in and letting the shit run rampant. Honestly, for a community this big, its really difficult to find something better. So the -world has gone to shit, no point in trying to do anything with it- is a good attitude? It is a realistic attitude atleast. Good for you if you want to be all idealistic about it.
No its a lazy and defeatist attitude, but thats just my opinion.
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Most of the time i don't even notice when it's a pro writing on the forum anyway. Only the ones with special icons perhaps. :/
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On January 03 2012 01:35 Ravnemesteren wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 01:30 Roggay wrote:On January 03 2012 01:29 Ravnemesteren wrote:On January 03 2012 01:27 Roggay wrote:On January 03 2012 01:24 Ravnemesteren wrote:On January 03 2012 01:20 Roggay wrote:On January 03 2012 01:15 DeekZ wrote:
The problem with pros posting is that they just end up getting into arguments with trolls and get called unprofessional every time, obvious example is incontrol, every time he posts he gets insulted, which starts an argument, which ends in everyone calling incontrol unprofessional, not to mention all the shit is posted on reddit and twitter, I suspect if the Starcraft community was a little less like TMZ the pros would be more inclined to post. Every internet community is like that or way worse. It's just the way it is and you have to live with it. Ofc it is not pleasant and does not encourage the pros to post more. Some internet communities are better or worse than others. And TL is not at all the best when it comes to this, so just saying "live with it", is not a good attitude in my opinion. Its always nice to try to improve instead of just giving in and letting the shit run rampant. Honestly, for a community this big, its really difficult to find something better. So the -world has gone to shit, no point in trying to do anything with it- is a good attitude? It is a realistic attitude atleast. Good for you if you want to be all idealistic about it. No its a lazy and defeatist attitude, but thats just my opinion.
Lazy? It's not like I can do anything about it except write well and be nice.
And anyway, you can change the rules, but not the people.
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I think they should create a system that blizzard has where you can specifically see blue posts, or posts by blizz employees. What if TL had this system but instead of just admins of TL it also included pros? would be cool.
But for reals, they need a pro only strategy section so we can weed through a lot of the amateur strategies.
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EPT
