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I just read top to bottom the Liquid Awards of the year. And something that surprised me was the number of Pros and International figures that were on there commenting about the awards. IdrA, Morrow, Day[9], all the TL mods including Nazgul, Huk, Naniwa, Thorzain, and many more. The amount that they posted got me curious as to how much time they actually spend on team liquid looking around. I know that in that particular instance, the article was about them and more specifically, things that could be debated, however, I was wondering why they don't comment more? I know that may sound ridiculous to say because they're busy people with busy lives but I have a feeling they read a vast majority of the topics because of the smaller ones that get commented on.
For example:
1. Nani's hilarious post about the sex appeal topic.
2. Morrow's post about how his 4 queen opener is "f'ckin awesome."
3. Nazgul's post on Hero's fanpage.
There are more, but I'll stick to those recent ones. I was just curious as to how many Pros are in fact lurkers on the forums because I think everyone in the community would love to hear all your opinions on topics.
Disclaimer: In NO way am I saying the pros don't do enough for the community, because I am greatful that there is even a place where pros can interact. That is awesome. The basis of my post is about the number of lurker pros on Team Liquid and how when they do come out and speak on certain issues, they brighten everyone's day. So, if they're already reading the forums, why not give us their perspective?
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I find that pros post a lot. I'm sure some just lurk, but I think that's the minority.
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isn't it Nazgul's job to be aware of the site? lol.
as for the other players im happy to get the funny nani comment every once and a while 
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DRG posts occasionally, and he has said in interviews that he reads TL often.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50107 Posts
lol Nazgul posts quite a bit to call him a lurker.
Sheth posts a lot because he usually plays mafia
Morrow pots when there is map balance discusssions
Nani posts when he feels like it.
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A lot of pros used to post.
Then the site grew and they got tore apart sometimes on the forums.
That's the unfortunate of iNcontrol's predicament D:
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HerO posts fairly regularly (for a Korean progamer) in his fan club.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
Back in the broodwar days, Idra used to post a lot. He's one of the few writing good posts in the strategy forum. SC2 came and he no longer cares.
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It's nice to be able to read what they have to say, however some people treat pros posting like spotting a celebrity.
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A lot of pros used to post.
Then the site grew and they got tore apart sometimes on the forums.
That's the unfortunate of iNcontrol's predicament D: '
Torte: I feel like they still are on the forums even though the website is huge, they just don't post. It may be because of the Newbie to Pro ratio now, but the point is I feel like they still are actively checking in on the forums, and not just the news.
lol Nazgul posts quite a bit to call him a lurker.
Sheth posts a lot because he usually plays mafia
Morrow pots when there is map balance discusssions
Nani posts when he feels like it.
Blind: I would say it is fair to not call Nazgul a lurker, however I think that other pros such as the ones you listed are on a surprising amount so I don't know if that it's just their personality but I feel like if they are on so much and they are pro they'd have a hard time not spewing information and showing their opinion.
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On January 02 2012 18:19 T.O.P. wrote:
Back in the broodwar days, Idra used to post a lot. He's one of the few writing good posts in the strategy forum. SC2 came and he no longer cares.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On January 02 2012 18:15 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Nani posts when he feels like trolling someone.
Fixed that for you.
To be honest last few post by Nani made me giggle a bit.
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Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere?
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Some guy one time did a 'Posts from pros' thread that had all the posts from pros in that week, but apparently he didn't continue it.
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On January 02 2012 18:19 T.O.P. wrote:
Back in the broodwar days, Idra used to post a lot. He's one of the few writing good posts in the strategy forum. SC2 came and he no longer cares.
Not entirely true. He used to post even then, but he got banned at one point.
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I barely see any pros post
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A track pro post option on the site would be awesome IMO.
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When you look at the kind of responses they're getting in other threads ("you should maybe win something before commenting on strategy" and "you can't talk about what this player does, he's sooo much better than you" and so on), is it really that much of a surprise that they rarely post anywhere in general, and almost never in Strategy?
I know Darkforce used to post A LOT in Strategy, and the kind of replies he was getting and number of random people that would theorycraft-argue against him was painful to read.
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well i think they just dont wanna say anything that would get them into trouble and most would get bombarded(? is that the word) with messages etc. so they decide not to do it. when i watch streams i see that most of the pros have tl open on the back
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lol it shouldn't really be surprising.
just look at incontrol: one post and everyone jumps on the bandwagon, quotes him and pretends they're best friends. it's like twitter (annoying).
or they decide to take the moment to draw attention, criticize him and call him an idiot.
"AHA! GOTCHA!"
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Considering the number of user i think the pros post quite often.
They can get PR shit if they post something without thinking about it first so i think thats why some of the pros don't do it as often in the non-strategy thread that have "debates" going on, the non "debate" threads are simply pointless to post into since all you can say its "gz" ( referring to the "new team formed", "player X joined Y", "new league is gonna start on Z"... etc kind of threads ) and i would guess not so many pros like to do that ( some of them do ) and there haven't been many strategy threads where the "answer" to the OP question or to some other question in the thread are not obvious enough to require a pro to explain them.
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On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere?
people are obnoxious imbeciles
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On January 02 2012 19:00 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere? people are obnoxious imbeciles
;D I love you
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On January 02 2012 19:00 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere? people are obnoxious imbeciles
coincided with SC2 release :D
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On January 02 2012 19:00 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere? people are obnoxious imbeciles
Couldn't have said it better myself. 
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Nowadays when "pros" post they get a large number of people just nuthugging them and it ruins threads.
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Depends - I think everyone is the same way. If there's something interesting, they'll post on it. You see a lot of these people reply on threads that are of interest to them. The awards are definitely something that pros would be interested in. When you're popular, people will bandwagon you quite a lot, and it makes it hard to join a discussion as an educated opinion or having something meaningful to say with it being obscured by fans boys, or the opposite, trolls. They also don't have a lot of time.
I really doubt debating strategy with people not at their level has any sort of applicable meaning to them, and they're likely too busy to offer much insight to the game. To be honest, Day9 does a good job of offering insight into the game already with his daily's, as do many other pros with their streams. There's just not really a need for them to post on the strategical aspect of the game. That leaves issues of self interest, which are hit and miss for anyone.
It's a big community, and a very important one for Sc2. I'm sure pros are lurking around reading, and some of them do post now and again, but to be honest it's not really a big deal. They interact with the community in so many different ways already, in and outside of the internet.
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4476 Posts
On January 02 2012 19:11 Megaliskuu wrote:
Nowadays when "pros" post they get a large number of people just nuthugging them and it ruins threads.
Like right above your post lol.
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On January 02 2012 18:05 GiMMiK wrote:
In NO way am I saying the pros don't do enough for the community, because I am greatful that there is even a place where pros can interact. That is awesome. The basis of my post is about the number of lurker pros on Team Liquid and how when they do come out and speak on certain issues, they brighten everyone's day. So, if they're already reading the forums, why not give us their perspective?
Idra has 11k+ posts. You have 34. Who is the lurker??
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+ Show Spoiler +On January 02 2012 19:03 FryktSkyene wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:00 IdrA wrote:On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere? people are obnoxious imbeciles ;D I love you On January 02 2012 19:08 bgx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:00 IdrA wrote:On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere? people are obnoxious imbeciles coincided with SC2 release :D On January 02 2012 19:10 GiMMiK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:00 IdrA wrote:On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere? people are obnoxious imbeciles Couldn't have said it better myself.
This is why some don't post anymore.Because when they do the thread derails into a fan club.
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On January 02 2012 19:03 FryktSkyene wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:00 IdrA wrote:On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere? people are obnoxious imbeciles ;D I love you
This post is just adding to the fact.
TT1 is probably the only pro that can post regularly on TL without having people hug his nuts.
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I think that agreeing is not problematic, although I do understand the point. But does the pro care about really derailing the whole thread? I mean at the end of the day they'll never lose sleep over it.
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On January 02 2012 19:21 LoLAdriankat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:03 FryktSkyene wrote:On January 02 2012 19:00 IdrA wrote:On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere? people are obnoxious imbeciles ;D I love you This post is just adding to the fact. TT1 is probably the only pro that can post regularly on TL without having people hug his nuts.
That's because he blends in with the crowd. Not sure if that is preferable.
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Nani/Idra dont care that much about derailing the thread, they are trollers after all, but what Top says is kinda more important that many top figures, including even Idra were more inclined to help community in strategy forums etc, but now its rare or non-existant. Seems like nowadays creating an image seems more important.
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On January 02 2012 19:29 bgx wrote:
Nani/Idra dont care that much about derailing the thread, they are trollers after all, but what Top says is kinda more important that many top figures, including even Idra were more inclined to help community in strategy forums etc, but now its rare or non-existant. Seems like nowadays creating an image seems more important.
no it actually is that people are imbeciles. any time a known player posts they risk someone picking an argument with them for the hell of it, or just having some random person go "lolol you got raped by x last week how can you post" or "why are you posting instead of practicing you're terrible"
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On January 02 2012 19:36 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:29 bgx wrote:
Nani/Idra dont care that much about derailing the thread, they are trollers after all, but what Top says is kinda more important that many top figures, including even Idra were more inclined to help community in strategy forums etc, but now its rare or non-existant. Seems like nowadays creating an image seems more important. no it actually is that people are imbeciles. any time a known player posts they risk someone picking an argument with them for the hell of it, or just having some random person go "lolol you got raped by x last week how can you post" or "why are you posting instead of practicing you're terrible"
I see. That makes sense. It's just a little sad that the pros don't feel safe to post because of the radical ideas people have about pros. I mean I think that getting an opinion from anyone better than me would be worth it, especially in the strategy forum. Can people really not resist basing a pros knowledge in any forum based off very recent results?
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On January 02 2012 18:19 T.O.P. wrote:
Back in the broodwar days, Idra used to post a lot. He's one of the few writing good posts in the strategy forum. SC2 came and he no longer cares.
yeah when I was just getting into TL via sc2's upcoming beta/started beta I loved reading IdrA's posts. i really identified with his upfront approach and loved seeing him argue so strongly; plenty of zergs used to whine, next-to-none were actually qualified.
even when it's off-topic ... blah. you have made me such a fan, idra. you're awesome.
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On January 02 2012 19:39 GiMMiK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:36 IdrA wrote:On January 02 2012 19:29 bgx wrote:
Nani/Idra dont care that much about derailing the thread, they are trollers after all, but what Top says is kinda more important that many top figures, including even Idra were more inclined to help community in strategy forums etc, but now its rare or non-existant. Seems like nowadays creating an image seems more important. no it actually is that people are imbeciles. any time a known player posts they risk someone picking an argument with them for the hell of it, or just having some random person go "lolol you got raped by x last week how can you post" or "why are you posting instead of practicing you're terrible" I see. That makes sense. It's just a little sad that the pros don't feel safe to post because of the radical ideas people have about pros. I mean I think that getting an opinion from anyone better than me would be worth it, especially in the strategy forum. Can people really not resist basing a pros knowledge in any forum based off very recent results?
I think it's an effect of the popularity of competitive SC2 in the foreign scene. With the larger community that comes with a more popular game, a more clearly defined split between the players and the audience will be present. I guess that back in the days when it was just BW, it was more of a everyone-knows-everyone type of community, where it's much easier for players to interact without having too much risk of a random unknown fanboy/hater messing up the discussion with gibberish.
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On January 02 2012 19:36 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:29 bgx wrote:
Nani/Idra dont care that much about derailing the thread, they are trollers after all, but what Top says is kinda more important that many top figures, including even Idra were more inclined to help community in strategy forums etc, but now its rare or non-existant. Seems like nowadays creating an image seems more important. no it actually is that people are imbeciles. any time a known player posts they risk someone picking an argument with them for the hell of it, or just having some random person go "lolol you got raped by x last week how can you post" or "why are you posting instead of practicing you're terrible"
That's why i like the idea of Artosis SCDojo blog/website, where he writes about strategy and 99% trolls won't even find it, while he still gives alot of value. The bigger the forum, the less likely it is to have any kind of serious discussion. Posting on TL or reddit indeed just provokes what you're talking about.
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The community has grown a lot since BW and there are many bad aspects of that. Sure, there were trolls and idiots during BW as well, but it was way more common to show proper respect to pros when they posted. If IdrA posted a guide to ZvT, that would be amazing.. yet you'd still have a billion n00bs who would pick on everything and bring up bullshit, even though they have no idea what they are doing.
There's just so many newbies coming with the release of SC2 that it's hard for pros to feel appreciated when posting. Just like IdrA wrote, so many imbeciles. AFAIK, several pros has said they've stopped reading the strategy forum on teamliquid because there are so many newbies who don't bring anything to the discussion and just derails everything.
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On January 02 2012 19:43 Rannasha wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:39 GiMMiK wrote:On January 02 2012 19:36 IdrA wrote:On January 02 2012 19:29 bgx wrote:
Nani/Idra dont care that much about derailing the thread, they are trollers after all, but what Top says is kinda more important that many top figures, including even Idra were more inclined to help community in strategy forums etc, but now its rare or non-existant. Seems like nowadays creating an image seems more important. no it actually is that people are imbeciles. any time a known player posts they risk someone picking an argument with them for the hell of it, or just having some random person go "lolol you got raped by x last week how can you post" or "why are you posting instead of practicing you're terrible" I see. That makes sense. It's just a little sad that the pros don't feel safe to post because of the radical ideas people have about pros. I mean I think that getting an opinion from anyone better than me would be worth it, especially in the strategy forum. Can people really not resist basing a pros knowledge in any forum based off very recent results? I think it's an effect of the popularity of competitive SC2 in the foreign scene. With the larger community that comes with a more popular game, a more clearly defined split between the players and the audience will be present. I guess that back in the days when it was just BW, it was more of a everyone-knows-everyone type of community, where it's much easier for players to interact without having too much risk of a random unknown fanboy/hater messing up the discussion with gibberish.
I'm sure there is a whole ton of new traffic because of sc2, but considering it's still a new game I'm sure those who are not-so passionate will eventually fall out while people that are really committed will stay. I feel like it could potentially become what it was.
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On January 02 2012 19:36 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:29 bgx wrote:
Nani/Idra dont care that much about derailing the thread, they are trollers after all, but what Top says is kinda more important that many top figures, including even Idra were more inclined to help community in strategy forums etc, but now its rare or non-existant. Seems like nowadays creating an image seems more important. no it actually is that people are imbeciles. any time a known player posts they risk someone picking an argument with them for the hell of it, or just having some random person go "lolol you got raped by x last week how can you post" or "why are you posting instead of practicing you're terrible"
With viewers+fame comes the downsides of it sadly. A pity that people in general are stupid and they only show it worse online. People should have to take a test to be allowed to post here  But I digress. Get back to practicing Idra! Come on man... GL in GSL
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On January 02 2012 19:47 Tobberoth wrote:
The community has grown a lot since BW and there are many bad aspects of that. Sure, there were trolls and idiots during BW as well, but it was way more common to show proper respect to pros when they posted. If IdrA posted a guide to ZvT, that would be amazing.. yet you'd still have a billion n00bs who would pick on everything and bring up bullshit, even though they have no idea what they are doing.
There's just so many newbies coming with the release of SC2 that it's hard for pros to feel appreciated when posting. Just like IdrA wrote, so many imbeciles. AFAIK, several pros has said they've stopped reading the strategy forum on teamliquid because there are so many newbies who don't bring anything to the discussion and just derails everything.
imho there're as many fanboys as there are haters for a random propost...
The esport booming is like everything, good and bad parts! huge community means it's growing but the bigger the community is the more "imbeciles" you get. Maybe TL could open a subforum where pros can approach strategy with moderating rughts and where the random Joe (like me) cannot post directly, like submitting your post and it gets through a control or something, it would discourage a lot of trolls/fans to know that their "u suck"/"u're so awesome" won't be read anyway
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On January 02 2012 19:36 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:29 bgx wrote:
Nani/Idra dont care that much about derailing the thread, they are trollers after all, but what Top says is kinda more important that many top figures, including even Idra were more inclined to help community in strategy forums etc, but now its rare or non-existant. Seems like nowadays creating an image seems more important. no it actually is that people are imbeciles. any time a known player posts they risk someone picking an argument with them for the hell of it, or just having some random person go "lolol you got raped by x last week how can you post" or "why are you posting instead of practicing you're terrible"
Agreed. People seem to loose their heads and act like morons when someone with even a modicum of fame is in the same room/thread/building.
They are either rabid fanbois who just "+1 fan" everything the Pro said just to be closer to the "star" (OMG I talked to THE Idra !) or the alternative is they want to argue, belittle, take the Pro down a peg just as an effort to show how huge their e-peen is.
We should give Pro's respect where respect is due, but they still put their pants on one leg at a time like the rest of us. On the topics of esports, Starcraft, foreign tourneys etc, they have more experience than the rest of us and their comments should be listened to... but by all means disagree if you think they are wrong (and you better have a damn good reason to think you know better than someone who does this for a living).
Other than that, we should talk to them just as you would hope anyone else would talk to you (be it online or IRL).
Politely & Respectfully (up until the point they themselves cross the line into the realm of BM, but then they are setting the bar on what is ok for them)
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On January 02 2012 19:54 ShatterStorm wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:36 IdrA wrote:On January 02 2012 19:29 bgx wrote:
Nani/Idra dont care that much about derailing the thread, they are trollers after all, but what Top says is kinda more important that many top figures, including even Idra were more inclined to help community in strategy forums etc, but now its rare or non-existant. Seems like nowadays creating an image seems more important. no it actually is that people are imbeciles. any time a known player posts they risk someone picking an argument with them for the hell of it, or just having some random person go "lolol you got raped by x last week how can you post" or "why are you posting instead of practicing you're terrible" Agreed. People seem to loose their heads and act like morons when someone with even a modicum of fame is in the same room/thread/building. They are either rabid fanbois who just "+1 fan" everything the Pro said just to be closer to the "star" (OMG I talked to THE Idra !) or the alternative is they want to argue, belittle, take the Pro down a peg just as an effort to show how huge their e-peen is. We should give Pro's respect where respect is due, but they still put their pants on one leg at a time like the rest of us. On the topics of esports, Starcraft, foreign tourneys etc, they have more experience than the rest of us and their comments should be listened to... but by all means disagree if you think they are wrong (and you better have a damn good reason to think you know better than someone who does this for a living). Other than that, we should talk to them just as you would hope anyone else would talk to you (be it online or IRL). Politely & Respectfully (up until the point they themselves cross the line into the realm of BM, but then they are setting the bar on what is ok for them)
I put mine on two at a time...
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On January 02 2012 19:52 LeLfe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:47 Tobberoth wrote:
The community has grown a lot since BW and there are many bad aspects of that. Sure, there were trolls and idiots during BW as well, but it was way more common to show proper respect to pros when they posted. If IdrA posted a guide to ZvT, that would be amazing.. yet you'd still have a billion n00bs who would pick on everything and bring up bullshit, even though they have no idea what they are doing.
There's just so many newbies coming with the release of SC2 that it's hard for pros to feel appreciated when posting. Just like IdrA wrote, so many imbeciles. AFAIK, several pros has said they've stopped reading the strategy forum on teamliquid because there are so many newbies who don't bring anything to the discussion and just derails everything. imho there're as many fanboys as there are haters for a random propost... The esport booming is like everything, good and bad parts! huge community means it's growing but the bigger the community is the more "imbeciles" you get. Maybe TL could open a subforum where pros can approach strategy with moderating rughts and where the random Joe (like me) cannot post directly, like submitting your post and it gets through a control or something, it would discourage a lot of trolls/fans to know that their "u suck"/"u're so awesome" won't be read anyway
Seems like to much hassle(probably), the community will mature but it needs years to do so. You cant really fix that. After 1.5 y from release there are still massive cries in LR's, even strict moderation couldnt prevent it from happening, "imbecile" rate will slowly get lower, but it needs time.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50107 Posts
On January 02 2012 19:00 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere? people are obnoxious imbeciles
pretty much.
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On January 02 2012 19:52 LeLfe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:47 Tobberoth wrote:
The community has grown a lot since BW and there are many bad aspects of that. Sure, there were trolls and idiots during BW as well, but it was way more common to show proper respect to pros when they posted. If IdrA posted a guide to ZvT, that would be amazing.. yet you'd still have a billion n00bs who would pick on everything and bring up bullshit, even though they have no idea what they are doing.
There's just so many newbies coming with the release of SC2 that it's hard for pros to feel appreciated when posting. Just like IdrA wrote, so many imbeciles. AFAIK, several pros has said they've stopped reading the strategy forum on teamliquid because there are so many newbies who don't bring anything to the discussion and just derails everything. imho there're as many fanboys as there are haters for a random propost... The esport booming is like everything, good and bad parts! huge community means it's growing but the bigger the community is the more "imbeciles" you get. Maybe TL could open a subforum where pros can approach strategy with moderating rughts and where the random Joe (like me) cannot post directly, like submitting your post and it gets through a control or something, it would discourage a lot of trolls/fans to know that their "u suck"/"u're so awesome" won't be read anyway
I think this is rather vaild. I don't think people ever listen to the Ten Commandments set as well as they should. There are a lot of things about respect up there that just don't happen. It makes TL look like the battle.net forums which is... disgusting.
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i agree with what idra said, i used to post quite regularly in the strategy forum, but i just cant be arsed to waste my time to argue with people who have no clue about the game, but great overestimate their knowledge. but they get super pissed when i tell them that they are just completely wrong.
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I'd say most pro's that stream usually goes on TL looking around in between matches quite a bit.
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Bullshido, the MMA site, has a sticky that says "stfu and train".
It's good advice but it's advice only followed by the people that you actually want commenting on any forum for discussing a competitive environment.
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It's ok, as soon as a pro will post, it will be posted on reddit and i will know about it.
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On January 02 2012 20:12 DarKFoRcE wrote:
i agree with what idra said, i used to post quite regularly in the strategy forum, but i just cant be arsed to waste my time to argue with people who have no clue about the game, but great overestimate their knowledge. but they get super pissed when i tell them that they are just completely wrong.
And they ruin it for all of us who know we are terrible and want to learn something :D (not nuthugging, which is my new favorite english word)
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On January 02 2012 20:12 DarKFoRcE wrote:
i agree with what idra said, i used to post quite regularly in the strategy forum, but i just cant be arsed to waste my time to argue with people who have no clue about the game, but great overestimate their knowledge. but they get super pissed when i tell them that they are just completely wrong.
But if you don't post on the other hand you'll get flamed in a post whichs topic it is to find out why you wouldn't post.
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nuthugging? A fellow bullshidoka?
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oh btw i imagine TL makes pros feel like reddit's r/starcraft makes master league players feel ... just disgusted and faithless in humanity.*
*kpop threads also do this**
**da-dunsh
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TL should enter a minimum post league, that way bronze people can't argue and post stupid things. I believe the high level players will post more then and the stupid comments will stay away
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On January 02 2012 20:27 Tigi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 20:12 DarKFoRcE wrote:
i agree with what idra said, i used to post quite regularly in the strategy forum, but i just cant be arsed to waste my time to argue with people who have no clue about the game, but great overestimate their knowledge. but they get super pissed when i tell them that they are just completely wrong. But if you don't post on the other hand you'll get flamed in a post whichs topic it is to find out why you wouldn't post.
Do you think they care?
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There's too much background noise, it's very hard to filter out anything useful from a discussion thread. Busy people will sometimes post an answer to the OP, and very rarely read the rest of the thread; for the same reason they are unlikely to open a thread themselves, they can't hope to get anything out of it.
You still get good guide threads from time to time, because people want to show off their builds, and some do genuinely want to help the community. But the noise makes the strategy forums a collection of articles each with a swarm of useless blabber attached, kind of like the user comments on online newspapers.
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On January 02 2012 19:18 IMoperator wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:11 Megaliskuu wrote:
Nowadays when "pros" post they get a large number of people just nuthugging them and it ruins threads. Like right above your post lol.
I read this, got curious, scrolled up a bit, and lol'd so hard. So true.
It'd be nice if pros did post in the strat forum as I think their knowledge of the game is unbeatable compared to the top masters people who normally make the posts.
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It would actually be nice if there would be a forum where only pros/people who know about sc2 could post and most people would just read it (like me and other noobs). That would pretty much be the opposite of TL these days. Pro posts get buried under a mountain of shit.
EDIT: also i'm too dumb to see what is a retarded strategy post and what is not so it's really hard to actually get anything out of the strategy forum
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On January 02 2012 20:30 Dunedain wrote:
TL should enter a minimum post league, that way bronze people can't argue and post stupid things. I believe the high level players will post more then and the stupid comments will stay away
Nice thought, but there are idiots in every league.
Sure, the Idiot Masters and Grand masters players posts would have a better grounding in game theory and strategy, but that would be the only differentiator for post quality from some Bronze nub thinking he knows best.
You'd still have the fan boys and arrogant posters in spades
EDIT: not saying everyone is an idiot, just that individuals who are idiots can be found regardless of league.
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On January 02 2012 20:50 Snettik wrote:
It would actually be nice if there would be a forum where only pros/people who know about sc2 could post and most people would just read it (like me and other noobs). That would pretty much be the opposite of TL these days. Pro posts get buried under a mountain of shit.
Yes! or maybe pick back up the blue poster idea and have an option to nuke all non-blue posts.
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Oh there are always idiots on all forums KawaiiRice, the rest of us appreciate your posts
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On January 02 2012 20:50 Snettik wrote:
It would actually be nice if there would be a forum where only pros/people who know about sc2 could post and most people would just read it (like me and other noobs). That would pretty much be the opposite of TL these days. Pro posts get buried under a mountain of shit.
I think this was discussed during the last update of the TL forums but it seemed they was hesitant to make such a separation though they might consider it in the future. Not 100 % if I remember that correctly but it should be somewhere in the forums.
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From what I've read from you, you're a smart cookie a therefore prolly know it, but I'll still will say it:
TL is like everywhere else, there is a loud (and annoying) minority criticizing and trying to demolish any attempt of building something and the quiet minority who actually enjoys what is done.
When I read a pro's insight on TL, i usually feel "thankful" for the time taken to explain what it really was about, but will i post "thx for the analysis"? no, it would just be somekind of flood in this ocean of nuthudging , so no oint posting if no relevant question. Most people respect and enjoy that pros are sharing their knowledge and so on, so I do think it's still worth it and just don't bother losing your time dealing with hate/ignorance
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A lot of people in the strat forum have good intentions and want to share their knowledge with the community. However a lot of them lack modesty and act like douches when they don't agree with what a pro/famous poster wrote.
I've found myself in this situation once or twice when I was completely sure that what the pro posted was wrong, but was cautious enough to keep my mouth shut ( and then discovered some time after that I was wrong... ).
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I think it would be interesting if TL somehow linked with Blizzard so that you would have to link your SC2 profile to your TL account, and then thread makers could limit posts in threads to masters+, or even diamond+.
However, this would of course ostracize the majority of players that are below diamond (which make up a LOT of the community) and would take a lot of thought to be implemented correctly.
It really is getting annoying though to have SO many posts that unfortunately are clueless about the game make up the majority of posts in strat sections...
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mainly because what's being said by pros directly affect their reputation, but some don't care and speak their mind (Idra and Cloud come to mine) others simply dont post to correct all the non-senses posted by lower-leagues players.
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For the love of god please continue to post!!
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It would be amazing if in_dove or any former BW pro posted in the BW strategy forum and giving advice....
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On January 02 2012 20:54 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 20:50 Snettik wrote:
It would actually be nice if there would be a forum where only pros/people who know about sc2 could post and most people would just read it (like me and other noobs). That would pretty much be the opposite of TL these days. Pro posts get buried under a mountain of shit. I think this was discussed during the last update of the TL forums but it seemed they was hesitant to make such a separation though they might consider it in the future. Not 100 % if I remember that correctly but it should be somewhere in the forums.
There was a system like that on the WoW PvP forum Arenajunkies, where only people who achieved gladiator (top 0.5%) in one of the seasons could post in the strat forum. Granted there were a lot less stupid posts than the unrestricted part of the forum, there were still a shit ton of them. I think you would need a very high restriction for something like that to give good results, probably only established pros.
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I also think they just dont want to share their opinion because they dont want to get in such an argument that could damage their public image.
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I'm always really appreciative of pro feedback since it's really the only strategy information I can take at face value. These days I try to get my questions in on player's streams when they're watching the chat during queue lol. Desperate, but I've gotten some useful info.
Really wish that there was a Strategy forums for people that acknowledge they don't know shit, even at Masters I only know macro and basic timings.
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Perhaps pros/GM players could get an icon or something so they are easily identifiable.
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On January 02 2012 19:36 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:29 bgx wrote:
Nani/Idra dont care that much about derailing the thread, they are trollers after all, but what Top says is kinda more important that many top figures, including even Idra were more inclined to help community in strategy forums etc, but now its rare or non-existant. Seems like nowadays creating an image seems more important. no it actually is that people are imbeciles. any time a known player posts they risk someone picking an argument with them for the hell of it, or just having some random person go "lolol you got raped by x last week how can you post" or "why are you posting instead of practicing you're terrible"
I don't understand why you still wouldn't post in the strat section and trust mods to ban those people. The purge changed things a little bit I think.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
they get too much hate for it or derail the thread
its impossible to discuss it with people when half the people nuthugg(nice word lol) and the other ones have to bring up some form of WELL I SAW YOUR STREAM or WELL, HOW ABOUT YOU DO THAT YOURESLF, CAUSE IN GAME X VS Y YOU DIDNT DO THAT etc.
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For me as a player and as a viewer a only progamer forum section would be the greatest thing in the world, so i could read the discussions about the newest strategies and their ideas behind it. I would improve my play without just copy XvY BO and i would get a better understanding what the pros are doing while watching them.
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On January 02 2012 21:14 Jedclark wrote:
Perhaps pros/GM players could get an icon or something so they are easily identifiable.
Their posts are already highlighted the strategy forum?
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On January 02 2012 18:44 Gamegene wrote:
lol it shouldn't really be surprising.
just look at incontrol: one post and everyone jumps on the bandwagon, quotes him and pretends they're best friends. it's like twitter (annoying).
or they decide to take the moment to draw attention, criticize him and call him an idiot.
"AHA! GOTCHA!"
+ Show Spoiler +On January 02 2012 19:03 FryktSkyene wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:00 IdrA wrote:On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere? people are obnoxious imbeciles ;D I love you On January 02 2012 19:08 bgx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:00 IdrA wrote:On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere? people are obnoxious imbeciles coincided with SC2 release :D On January 02 2012 19:10 GiMMiK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:00 IdrA wrote:On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere? people are obnoxious imbeciles Couldn't have said it better myself.
Hahaha nice one.
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I would strongly support a forum that only pros can post in, but everyone can read. That way some actual strategy discussion can take place, where people actually know what they are talking about (all the posters).
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I remember when I first came on this forum only because I had starcraft 2... I was so amazed that pros could have debates with anyone on the forums. But then I read and heard people like QxC or like KawaiiRice (as he linked some perfect example of how people grab them appart and start with their e-penis) not willing to write anymore because of some of the bronzies with nice writing skills and nothing else. When i read this i was so sad TL would become just a newspaper forumsite..
I'm all for hunting down people who starts to bring their epenis infront of pros who take time to write, even "accelerating" some consensus of hierarchical "respect towards any pros" instead of them not posting at all. But then there will be always bias and freedom of speech which will be questionned and get into an infinite loop. So whats the good answer ? getting some private forums where we "X" can read but not post ? but then comes the question of who is allowed to post, i remember some topics talking about this specific issue 1 year ago already.
I would love to see more pros posting without exceptions. Definitely !
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i wonder if pros have smurfs on TL.
On January 02 2012 21:34 GrungyMunchy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 18:44 Gamegene wrote:
lol it shouldn't really be surprising.
just look at incontrol: one post and everyone jumps on the bandwagon, quotes him and pretends they're best friends. it's like twitter (annoying).
or they decide to take the moment to draw attention, criticize him and call him an idiot.
"AHA! GOTCHA!" + Show Spoiler +On January 02 2012 19:03 FryktSkyene wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:00 IdrA wrote:On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere? people are obnoxious imbeciles ;D I love you On January 02 2012 19:08 bgx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:00 IdrA wrote:On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere? people are obnoxious imbeciles coincided with SC2 release :D On January 02 2012 19:10 GiMMiK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:00 IdrA wrote:On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere? people are obnoxious imbeciles Couldn't have said it better myself. Hahaha nice one.
LOL. SELF DEMONSTRATING THREAD.
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Was just tuned in to BeastyQt's stream, and coincidently enough, he was lurking this forum topic between games ;p
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I've seen Destiny and Tyler lurk a lot in TL on their streams, I think everyone does wheter you're a pro or not. However I do agree with the statements here, it's quite painful to watch a good strategy post by incontrol only to see a newbie post something like "well since you haven't won an MLG you shouldn't be talking". Everyone can theorycraft that is good and all but there has to be a respect towards pros, not a blind "yes everything you say is right" thing but at least the respect they deserve for the time they dedicate to playing and practicing.
I would love to see more input from pros in the strategy section, all these new builds people come up with maybe they can shed a light as to wheter the build might have some merit or not but I do understand why they don't like to post and it is too bad as well since people like Artosis, Nony, Thorzain, Idra and others are real students of the game and know a truly lot about strategy.
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Pretty much what IdrA said and KawaiiRice even demonstrated with a link. You're either lost in a sea of non-sense or you get targetted and flamed/argued with for reasons that make no sense.
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On January 02 2012 21:27 Apoo wrote:
For me as a player and as a viewer a only progamer forum section would be the greatest thing in the world, so i could read the discussions about the newest strategies and their ideas behind it. I would improve my play without just copy XvY BO and i would get a better understanding what the pros are doing while watching them.
This is a great idea for an exclusive sub forum. TL should really look into this.
No other community can offer that and it would solve problems for readers and pros, so their posts dont get buried.
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Every hobbyist forum I've ever visited suffers from the same effect.
The pros rarely ever post.
Ask any of them. From ANY hobby (RC, Paintball, Motorsports, Bodybuilding, etc), "is posting on the forums worth it?"
Nope.
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On January 02 2012 22:49 probob wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 21:27 Apoo wrote:
For me as a player and as a viewer a only progamer forum section would be the greatest thing in the world, so i could read the discussions about the newest strategies and their ideas behind it. I would improve my play without just copy XvY BO and i would get a better understanding what the pros are doing while watching them. This is a great idea for an exclusive sub forum. TL should really look into this. No other community can offer that and it would solve problems for readers and pros, so their posts dont get buried.
had pretty much the same suggestion except that I think there still should be somekind of interaction. Maybe a sticky thread in the subforum which is open to everybody so that they can ask specific questions and the pros can decide to pick some to create a thread and explained their view on the matter
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50107 Posts
On January 02 2012 22:25 Gamegene wrote:i wonder if pros have smurfs on TL. Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 21:34 GrungyMunchy wrote:On January 02 2012 18:44 Gamegene wrote:
lol it shouldn't really be surprising.
just look at incontrol: one post and everyone jumps on the bandwagon, quotes him and pretends they're best friends. it's like twitter (annoying).
or they decide to take the moment to draw attention, criticize him and call him an idiot.
"AHA! GOTCHA!" + Show Spoiler +On January 02 2012 19:03 FryktSkyene wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:00 IdrA wrote:On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere? people are obnoxious imbeciles ;D I love you On January 02 2012 19:08 bgx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:00 IdrA wrote:On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere? people are obnoxious imbeciles coincided with SC2 release :D On January 02 2012 19:10 GiMMiK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:00 IdrA wrote:On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere? people are obnoxious imbeciles Couldn't have said it better myself. Hahaha nice one. LOL. SELF DEMONSTRATING THREAD.
of course pros have alt accounts.
Tyler has an alt called Nony(yes for real a 3k post probe)
IdrA had idrajit when he was perm'd the first time(idrajit is permed when his main account got unpermd)
hell even our mods have alts...like baller...
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On January 02 2012 22:50 BoX wrote:
Every hobbyist forum I've ever visited suffers from the same effect.
The pros rarely ever post.
Ask any of them. From ANY hobby (RC, Paintball, Motorsports, Bodybuilding, etc), "is posting on the forums worth it?"
Nope.
dunno about the hooby you're talking about but for instance, in poker pros are very active and the thread are often goldmines of knowledge (twoplustwo is a great forum) but pros get much more respect than in here imo, community is older and more mature
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On January 02 2012 22:55 LeLfe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 22:50 BoX wrote:
Every hobbyist forum I've ever visited suffers from the same effect.
The pros rarely ever post.
Ask any of them. From ANY hobby (RC, Paintball, Motorsports, Bodybuilding, etc), "is posting on the forums worth it?"
Nope. dunno about the hooby you're talking about but for instance, in poker pros are very active and the thread are often goldmines of knowledge (twoplustwo is a great forum) but pros get much more respect than in here imo, community is older and more mature
I think that's more to do with the separation of stakes and games on 2+2. People don't accept random opinions unless they play at that stake. Also how do you define a pro in poker compared to SC2? There is a higher percentage of people making a consistent income on poker by a large margin compared to SC2.
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There are a rare few that continue to post through the bullshit, but what's the point really if they're just going to get morons criticising them. I hate it how these people go out of their way to try and help the lower levels and get flamed, I'd personally like to hear why someone's strategy might be invalid from a pro rather than a self-proclaimed strategy guru that barely plays the game.
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On January 02 2012 23:00 haffy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 22:55 LeLfe wrote:On January 02 2012 22:50 BoX wrote:
Every hobbyist forum I've ever visited suffers from the same effect.
The pros rarely ever post.
Ask any of them. From ANY hobby (RC, Paintball, Motorsports, Bodybuilding, etc), "is posting on the forums worth it?"
Nope. dunno about the hooby you're talking about but for instance, in poker pros are very active and the thread are often goldmines of knowledge (twoplustwo is a great forum) but pros get much more respect than in here imo, community is older and more mature I think that's more to do with the separation of stakes and games on 2+2. People don't accept random opinions unless they play at that stake. Also how do you define a pro in poker compared to SC2? There is a higher percentage of people making a consistent income on poker by a large margin compared to SC2.
you can to a certain extend compare stakes and leagues, even if a bronze league could definitely beat a GM in poker (on a very short run) but not at SC2. Considering the size of the player pool in the poker world i'm not sure the ratio pro/casual is that different compared to sc2. Anyway the selection of who can post will inevitably be arbitrary, you can start with -for instance- allow only the featured streamers to post, and allow players to apply to join. If they feel they're actually discussing the games and confronting RELEVANT views, it might create a positive dynamic and make them feel like posting more. I totally sound idealistic but the way it is now i not optimal and as there are no age requirement on TL it'll remain like this, some will grow up but will be replaced by other internet heroes wanting to trash talk pros...
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Reading some of incontrols.... discussions with people should give you a really good idea why most pros don't bother to post shit a lot of the time.
There are a lot of little fuckers out there and it's hardly worth it.
And yea, what idra said basically.
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I see MorroW, Naniwa, TT1, Tyler, Incontrol, Merz and Naruto post a lot.
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Cos players that are active in the community are more likely to be unfairly criticized. An comparison would be EG incontrol and FNATIC tod. Both are high profile players that are on top tier teams but when tod drops out of group stages or does poorly in an mlg nobody says tod is a shit player, unfocused etc. Whereas incontrol has his own antifan club.
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On January 02 2012 22:25 Gamegene wrote:i wonder if pros have smurfs on TL. Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 21:34 GrungyMunchy wrote:On January 02 2012 18:44 Gamegene wrote:
lol it shouldn't really be surprising.
just look at incontrol: one post and everyone jumps on the bandwagon, quotes him and pretends they're best friends. it's like twitter (annoying).
or they decide to take the moment to draw attention, criticize him and call him an idiot.
"AHA! GOTCHA!" + Show Spoiler +On January 02 2012 19:03 FryktSkyene wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:00 IdrA wrote:On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere? people are obnoxious imbeciles ;D I love you On January 02 2012 19:08 bgx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:00 IdrA wrote:On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere? people are obnoxious imbeciles coincided with SC2 release :D On January 02 2012 19:10 GiMMiK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:00 IdrA wrote:On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere? people are obnoxious imbeciles Couldn't have said it better myself. Hahaha nice one. LOL. SELF DEMONSTRATING THREAD.
it was a trap  /cry
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Many of them do. They don't want to deal with other people's bullshit most of the time. These forums are flooded with b.s.
When the community was a lot smaller it was much easier. Not so much anymore. It comes with the territory of growth, but hey I still post
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On January 02 2012 23:06 Vekalisk wrote:
There are a rare few that continue to post through the bullshit, but what's the point really if they're just going to get morons criticising them. I hate it how these people go out of their way to try and help the lower levels and get flamed, I'd personally like to hear why someone's strategy might be invalid from a pro rather than a self-proclaimed strategy guru that barely plays the game.
IMO the problem is the all too commonly believed myth that it is possible to understand the game without being good at it. "I am in gold league but I watch the game a lot so I have a good understanding of it." "I know what to do, I just don't have the mechanics." As a result, you have people who know nothing about the game trying to argue with pros.
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On January 02 2012 22:45 dignitas.merz wrote:
Pretty much what IdrA said and KawaiiRice even demonstrated with a link. You're either lost in a sea of non-sense or you get targetted and flamed/argued with for reasons that make no sense.
To be honest, this isn't specific to pros at all; just see what kind of non-sense you can see when you talk about strategy with (clueless) random posters. It was about no wall in TvZ + Show Spoiler [Arena of Legends Group A] +after MKP got demolished two times in a row because he did not bother to wall off... And still, against the blatant evidence, this guy was talking about how not walling in TvZ was supposedly a brilliant strategy and such.
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On January 02 2012 23:20 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 23:06 Vekalisk wrote:
There are a rare few that continue to post through the bullshit, but what's the point really if they're just going to get morons criticising them. I hate it how these people go out of their way to try and help the lower levels and get flamed, I'd personally like to hear why someone's strategy might be invalid from a pro rather than a self-proclaimed strategy guru that barely plays the game.
IMO the problem is the all too commonly believed myth that it is possible to understand the game without being good at it. "I am in gold league but I watch the game a lot so I have a good understanding of it." "I know what to do, I just don't have the mechanics." As a result, you have people who know nothing about the game trying to argue with pros.
i think its kinda because of sc2/new games design aspect, when you are gold/plat/diamond you think you just lack few things but generally you are brilliant, "i only need to sort few things and soon ill hit proscene!!1" In BW it kinda feels you are trash and you yourself feel it also :p In sc2 its always that ah if i did this right i would totally pwn... which is of course an illusion.
Everyone who played/tried to play/do something on near/semi proffesional level knows how long it takes to be "okayish" and how long it takes to be really good/one of the best (if ever). Its just people love to live in illusion, but when i recollect my experiences with different games and "stages" of experience... Its always like that, people after few years always look back and see how bad/idiotic they were, sc2 is still new and most people feel like they can be vocal about it. Which generally means flood of bad informations.
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On January 02 2012 23:20 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 23:06 Vekalisk wrote:
There are a rare few that continue to post through the bullshit, but what's the point really if they're just going to get morons criticising them. I hate it how these people go out of their way to try and help the lower levels and get flamed, I'd personally like to hear why someone's strategy might be invalid from a pro rather than a self-proclaimed strategy guru that barely plays the game.
IMO the problem is the all too commonly believed myth that it is possible to understand the game without being good at it. "I am in gold league but I watch the game a lot so I have a good understanding of it." "I know what to do, I just don't have the mechanics." As a result, you have people who know nothing about the game trying to argue with pros.
Newbs should just be quiet and stop arguing with better players. It's not going to help anyone. Actually, stop arguing at all and start playing the game. Just saying.
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On January 02 2012 23:20 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 23:06 Vekalisk wrote:
There are a rare few that continue to post through the bullshit, but what's the point really if they're just going to get morons criticising them. I hate it how these people go out of their way to try and help the lower levels and get flamed, I'd personally like to hear why someone's strategy might be invalid from a pro rather than a self-proclaimed strategy guru that barely plays the game.
IMO the problem is the all too commonly believed myth that it is possible to understand the game without being good at it. "I am in gold league but I watch the game a lot so I have a good understanding of it." "I know what to do, I just don't have the mechanics." As a result, you have people who know nothing about the game trying to argue with pros.
Yea great post. The general diamond-masters TL poster saying stuff sounds like bronze scrubs arguing about balance to pros. They don't post often for the same reason everyone on TL stopped posting on starcraft2.com.
But, I'd say the reason pros don't post is because posting and following threads takes an enormous amount of time. The time it takes to write a good post, could have been spent playing 2-3 games practicing how to hold 4 gate, or 2 rax. It really, really kills your time to play if you are posting on the forums. You can't really be both an active, every day poster and a pro player, you just don't have the time.
I'm sure they lurk though, maybe some of them lurk a lot. You also don't want to exactly tarnish your rep arguing on the forums, everyone was wrong about the game anyways a year ago, and not everyone is a likable poster.
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Its not going to help. Information is only useful if you have the proper framework for processing it. This means you're going to have to have a pre-developped body of information which can only be done by you. If you don't, then you're going to miss the point.
However, its always interesting to read up.
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Posting on TL is so high level they know using lurker is the best tech, and because they are pro they use hold lurker to make imba post
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On January 02 2012 22:54 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 22:25 Gamegene wrote:i wonder if pros have smurfs on TL. On January 02 2012 21:34 GrungyMunchy wrote:On January 02 2012 18:44 Gamegene wrote:
lol it shouldn't really be surprising.
just look at incontrol: one post and everyone jumps on the bandwagon, quotes him and pretends they're best friends. it's like twitter (annoying).
or they decide to take the moment to draw attention, criticize him and call him an idiot.
"AHA! GOTCHA!" + Show Spoiler +On January 02 2012 19:03 FryktSkyene wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:00 IdrA wrote:On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere? people are obnoxious imbeciles ;D I love you On January 02 2012 19:08 bgx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:00 IdrA wrote:On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere? people are obnoxious imbeciles coincided with SC2 release :D On January 02 2012 19:10 GiMMiK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:00 IdrA wrote:On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere? people are obnoxious imbeciles Couldn't have said it better myself. Hahaha nice one. LOL. SELF DEMONSTRATING THREAD. of course pros have alt accounts. Tyler has an alt called Nony(yes for real a 3k post probe) IdrA had idrajit when he was perm'd the first time(idrajit is permed when his main account got unpermd) hell even our mods have alts...like baller...
not exactly alt accounts. secret smurf accounts that can't be recognized.
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On January 02 2012 18:23 Grobyc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 18:19 T.O.P. wrote:
Back in the broodwar days, Idra used to post a lot. He's one of the few writing good posts in the strategy forum. SC2 came and he no longer cares. + Show Spoiler +
Nony still posts, look in the LoL forums. TLLoL?
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On January 02 2012 23:10 iaguz wrote:
Reading some of incontrols.... discussions with people should give you a really good idea why most pros don't bother to post shit a lot of the time.
There are a lot of little fuckers out there and it's hardly worth it
Ok. I think we need to stop here and take charge of something we love. TL.
I can understand the general sentiment among the professional players that posting will expose them to a lot of opinions (both positive/negative and too positive/ too negative) purely based on their popularity.
That is a shame! It is a fucking shame that a lot of people are not able to appreciate input and insights from players who do not need to do this. I think the fact that there is still so much communication between the "big ones" and the rest of the community is what makes it so much fun and is one of the reasons why so many people actively contribute to the community. Because they know everyone is contributing above and beyond what they need to, even the pros!
As I said before: It is a shame that some people don't seem to be able to appreciate this.
Now finally coming to the quote:
This sort of resignation is the worst kind of answer to the people who do not show appreciation for the interactions and communication from the pillars of our community. "It's hardly worth it" is the worst thing you can say. This community is definitely worth it and people saying it's not do a worse job than those expressing their "imbecile" opinions.
A great majority of us wants to hear from the pros and only a few want to just "own" a pro in an argument (can't even call it an argument most of the time). Why would we bow to the few f(iretr)uckers?
I say we encourage all pros to post and show 'em some respect (and that doesn't necessarily mean "Yes, I love you." or "You are always right. I want your babies"). I think we're worth it! + Show Spoiler +
Jojo
Oh and by the way. I think the TL mods are doing quite a good job at reacting to people insulting pros. Thx!
Edit: The wookie
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On January 02 2012 20:12 DarKFoRcE wrote:
i agree with what idra said, i used to post quite regularly in the strategy forum, but i just cant be arsed to waste my time to argue with people who have no clue about the game, but great overestimate their knowledge. but they get super pissed when i tell them that they are just completely wrong.
Um. I am a high diamond - low master MMR player that played a pro in a tournament once. I think I know what I'm talking about!
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Perhaps a subforum for pros only would make a better environment for them to get a little more active again, since now they would just be arguing with people with around the same game understanding as them.
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I suck at this game and I avoid the strategy forums like the plague... say one thing that's counter to the popular belief and you get labeled a "troll" or a "bronzie". Imagine how much more frustrating it is for pros to have people questioning their game knowledge as if they don't play the game for a living... TL should really just make a "Pros Only" strategy forum where only accredited posters can discuss. The rest of us noobs can be happy reading their discussions instead of mucking them up with stupid know-it-all attitudes.
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This forum needs more elitism in my opinion.
No one under Master League should be able to post in the strategy section (except maybe in the help me threads of each race). Or the strategy section should be split in two sections, Masters/GMs and another section for Diamond and under.
Would make a lot more sense to me, kind of like the poker forums, you don't want NL10 players commenting on an NL2k hands.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On January 02 2012 23:45 Odal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 20:12 DarKFoRcE wrote:
i agree with what idra said, i used to post quite regularly in the strategy forum, but i just cant be arsed to waste my time to argue with people who have no clue about the game, but great overestimate their knowledge. but they get super pissed when i tell them that they are just completely wrong. Um. I am a high diamond - low master MMR player that played a pro in a tournament once. I think I know what I'm talking about!
Please write a blog bro
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On January 03 2012 00:08 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 23:45 Odal wrote:On January 02 2012 20:12 DarKFoRcE wrote:
i agree with what idra said, i used to post quite regularly in the strategy forum, but i just cant be arsed to waste my time to argue with people who have no clue about the game, but great overestimate their knowledge. but they get super pissed when i tell them that they are just completely wrong. Um. I am a high diamond - low master MMR player that played a pro in a tournament once. I think I know what I'm talking about! Please write a blog bro
I think (hope) you got leveled (and myabe i'm being counter leveled, oh gosh)
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I love how people want eSports to be mainstream, and continue to grow but then are surprised when the natural progression that comes with that growth happens. You can't have it both ways, players that are getting more and more popular/famous and still have that personal interaction to the same degree as say TL BW or early SC2 prior to the popularity boom.
How many pros in other sports post on fan forums? You don't see an NFL quarterback on their team's fan website Monday morning trying to explain to fans why they ran the ball on 3rd and 1 instead of passing. As eSports grow and the players become more popular the interaction becomes more extreme - in both directions - with huge trolling/flaming and die hard fan love and both are annoying. It makes trying to interact with the fans on a website like this frustrating, if not impossible. And even through it is only a few people that ruin it for everyone, that number of "few people ruining it" just increase as the player/eSport popularity increases. I'm not even a pro by any means and I can hardly stand to read through the increased amount of garbage these days on TL, with the ridiculous player comments and people that constantly post about things they have no clue on(even things outside the game itself) and continue to argue just for the sake of arguing/trolling. I could just imagine what it would be like if I knew some of that was directed at me personally.
As a competitive player it gets to the point where only someone with super thick skin can even read the forum, and it is better for the mental side to just steer clear. It would be like walking through a dangerous part of town with fancy jewelry on and being surprised when you get mugged, why try to post or interact on the forum when you know the response will just be frustrating/flaming/personal attacks/argument.
The pros in eSports will continue to get their messages out in better medium that offer more protection and a better pedestal for their thoughts other than fan forums. Places like SOTG, personal interviews by professional media types, articles on team websites are places that pros can interact with the fans with some protection of not being flamed or having to sift through all the BS yet still get a message out. It isn't that they won't post here but it will continue to be less and less, it is no different than any other sport in that regard.
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On January 02 2012 23:54 Apolo wrote:
Perhaps a subforum for pros only would make a better environment for them to get a little more active again, since now they would just be arguing with people with around the same game understanding as them.
I love the idea but TL would have to figure out if it would be worth administrating/maintaining the privileges of pro to do that... I would recommend saying Experts, if they would include non players like some Casters or Coaches/Managers of Teams to be able to post in those forums as well...
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i noticed idra picked up on the 4 queen opener too. i was wondering where that came from. he uses it on the korean ladder. gives a bit more defense vs hellions, using larvae for drones instead of lings, and allows very fast creep spread. really nice imo.
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On January 02 2012 23:54 Apolo wrote:
Perhaps a subforum for pros only would make a better environment for them to get a little more active again, since now they would just be arguing with people with around the same game understanding as them.
Why would they do that when they're doin it all day long with other pros, they dont need forums to talk with each other rofl
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On January 02 2012 23:54 Apolo wrote:
Perhaps a subforum for pros only would make a better environment for them to get a little more active again, since now they would just be arguing with people with around the same game understanding as them.
I don't really feel like it is the purpose of teamliquid. It's a community website afterall and it would really feel "elitist" for a lot of new peoples (altho i don't particularly mind it).
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On January 02 2012 23:20 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 23:06 Vekalisk wrote:
There are a rare few that continue to post through the bullshit, but what's the point really if they're just going to get morons criticising them. I hate it how these people go out of their way to try and help the lower levels and get flamed, I'd personally like to hear why someone's strategy might be invalid from a pro rather than a self-proclaimed strategy guru that barely plays the game.
IMO the problem is the all too commonly believed myth that it is possible to understand the game without being good at it. "I am in gold league but I watch the game a lot so I have a good understanding of it." "I know what to do, I just don't have the mechanics." As a result, you have people who know nothing about the game trying to argue with pros.
Yeah exactly, definitely agree with you here.
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On January 02 2012 20:12 DarKFoRcE wrote:
i agree with what idra said, i used to post quite regularly in the strategy forum, but i just cant be arsed to waste my time to argue with people who have no clue about the game, but great overestimate their knowledge. but they get super pissed when i tell them that they are just completely wrong.
darkforce, come back to zerg help me thread.
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If whenever a pro says anything negative about any argument they get tons of shit from retarded people for it then don't expect them to speak their mind in this forum.
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I doubt they lurk much and read a lot (because they don't have time), they just occasionally read and post. And yeah, pretty much all pros and esports personalities have participated on TL at least a little bit. Only Korean pros are significantly less represented on TL, because of the language barrier. But even NaDa was seen on stream once reading TL (and people were worried/excited that he might see the legendary thread about him).
The reason their posts may leave the impression of much deeper observation is that progamers tend to be analytical, and it happens sometimes that their posts are right to the point, cutting the crap, and bringing an important view to the problem. It's not because they spend crapton of time lurking, they can't afford so much lurking and it's not worth their precious time.
edit: There was a special thread that was linking important posts by progamers on TL every week, but I can't find it now...
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Perhaps TL.net should enforce a rule that would punish people arguing with pros in terms of SC2 strategy unless the person has a very in depth analysis using factual information?
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On January 03 2012 00:36 aTnClouD wrote:
If whenever a pro says anything negative about any argument they get tons of shit from retarded people for it then don't expect them to speak their mind in this forum.
Imo ppl (not only pros) need to learn to give a fuck. You will always get shit for something you say from somebody, just that in reallife they might not be around. In the dirty evil interwebz those ppl are the ones who are around 24/7.
I would guess that about 80% of the reading folks on TL will apreciate a comment by pro's.
The problem is that you won't comment on such things with "Thank you for your insight Idra" because thats unnessecary and will probably derail the thread into a fanboy one.
So the only guys sticking out are the ones who need to present themselfs and for that bash some ppl who are more known than they are.
At the end it will look like that every comment after a pro wrote stuff will be a bashing one, when inreality 80% of the readers of the comment have thought "Uhh nice, i like!"
Commenting != Reading
I guess thats why a Strategy-Blog would be better, could even be a strategy-discussion-blog with several pros. But thats just a dream of a lil Dia Nerd :D
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The problem with pros posting is that they just end up getting into arguments with trolls and get called unprofessional every time, obvious example is incontrol, every time he posts he gets insulted, which starts an argument, which ends in everyone calling incontrol unprofessional, not to mention all the shit is posted on reddit and twitter, I suspect if the Starcraft community was a little less like TMZ the pros would be more inclined to post.
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TL is such a different community from the community i frequent...
I would like to see pro's post more and just ignore the ... posts trying to give them grief. easier said than done most likely but still... most people want to hear from the pros and its just the vocal minority that willfully or unwittingly ruin everything
If a pro helps someone in strat thread and others post like nu-uh then its the OP's choice whether to believe the pro who is in top GM or the random plat who "totally would be pro if he had higher apm"
A side note as im not pro (measly diamond) but I usually don't like to post here because its just gets buried :S
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On January 03 2012 01:15 DeekZ wrote:
The problem with pros posting is that they just end up getting into arguments with trolls and get called unprofessional every time, obvious example is incontrol, every time he posts he gets insulted, which starts an argument, which ends in everyone calling incontrol unprofessional, not to mention all the shit is posted on reddit and twitter, I suspect if the Starcraft community was a little less like TMZ the pros would be more inclined to post.
Every internet community is like that or way worse. It's just the way it is and you have to live with it. Ofc it is not pleasant and does not encourage the pros to post more.
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On January 03 2012 01:20 Roggay wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 01:15 DeekZ wrote:
The problem with pros posting is that they just end up getting into arguments with trolls and get called unprofessional every time, obvious example is incontrol, every time he posts he gets insulted, which starts an argument, which ends in everyone calling incontrol unprofessional, not to mention all the shit is posted on reddit and twitter, I suspect if the Starcraft community was a little less like TMZ the pros would be more inclined to post. Every internet community is like that or way worse. It's just the way it is and you have to live with it. Ofc it is not pleasant and does not encourage the pros to post more.
Some internet communities are better or worse than others. And TL is not at all the best when it comes to this, so just saying "live with it", is not a good attitude in my opinion. Its always nice to try to improve instead of just giving in and letting the shit run rampant.
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On January 03 2012 01:17 Meatex wrote:
TL is such a different community from the community i frequent...
I would like to see pro's post more and just ignore the ... posts trying to give them grief. easier said than done most likely but still... most people want to hear from the pros and its just the vocal minority that willfully or unwittingly ruin everything
If a pro helps someone in strat thread and others post like nu-uh then its the OP's choice whether to believe the pro who is in top GM or the random plat who "totally would be pro if he had higher apm"
A side note as im not pro (measly diamond) but I usually don't like to post here because its just gets buried :S
What is this magic community that you frequent in which the skill level of a poster is taken into account ?
The only decently sized sc2 community sites except for tl would be /r starcraft and bnet forms which are complete trash compared to this...
Edit: Could be a non-English form, now that i see your from SK, so in that case excuse me for questioning you such a place existed ;p
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On January 03 2012 01:24 Ravnemesteren wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 01:20 Roggay wrote:On January 03 2012 01:15 DeekZ wrote:
The problem with pros posting is that they just end up getting into arguments with trolls and get called unprofessional every time, obvious example is incontrol, every time he posts he gets insulted, which starts an argument, which ends in everyone calling incontrol unprofessional, not to mention all the shit is posted on reddit and twitter, I suspect if the Starcraft community was a little less like TMZ the pros would be more inclined to post. Every internet community is like that or way worse. It's just the way it is and you have to live with it. Ofc it is not pleasant and does not encourage the pros to post more. Some internet communities are better or worse than others. And TL is not at all the best when it comes to this, so just saying "live with it", is not a good attitude in my opinion. Its always nice to try to improve instead of just giving in and letting the shit run rampant.
Honestly, for a community this big, its really difficult to find something better.
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On January 03 2012 01:27 Roggay wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 01:24 Ravnemesteren wrote:On January 03 2012 01:20 Roggay wrote:On January 03 2012 01:15 DeekZ wrote:
The problem with pros posting is that they just end up getting into arguments with trolls and get called unprofessional every time, obvious example is incontrol, every time he posts he gets insulted, which starts an argument, which ends in everyone calling incontrol unprofessional, not to mention all the shit is posted on reddit and twitter, I suspect if the Starcraft community was a little less like TMZ the pros would be more inclined to post. Every internet community is like that or way worse. It's just the way it is and you have to live with it. Ofc it is not pleasant and does not encourage the pros to post more. Some internet communities are better or worse than others. And TL is not at all the best when it comes to this, so just saying "live with it", is not a good attitude in my opinion. Its always nice to try to improve instead of just giving in and letting the shit run rampant. Honestly, for a community this big, its really difficult to find something better.
So the -world has gone to shit, no point in trying to do anything with it- is a good attitude?
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On January 03 2012 01:29 Ravnemesteren wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 01:27 Roggay wrote:On January 03 2012 01:24 Ravnemesteren wrote:On January 03 2012 01:20 Roggay wrote:On January 03 2012 01:15 DeekZ wrote:
The problem with pros posting is that they just end up getting into arguments with trolls and get called unprofessional every time, obvious example is incontrol, every time he posts he gets insulted, which starts an argument, which ends in everyone calling incontrol unprofessional, not to mention all the shit is posted on reddit and twitter, I suspect if the Starcraft community was a little less like TMZ the pros would be more inclined to post. Every internet community is like that or way worse. It's just the way it is and you have to live with it. Ofc it is not pleasant and does not encourage the pros to post more. Some internet communities are better or worse than others. And TL is not at all the best when it comes to this, so just saying "live with it", is not a good attitude in my opinion. Its always nice to try to improve instead of just giving in and letting the shit run rampant. Honestly, for a community this big, its really difficult to find something better. So the -world has gone to shit, no point in trying to do anything with it- is a good attitude?
It is a realistic attitude atleast. Good for you if you want to be all idealistic about it.
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I think that people should be aware of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled people make poor decisions and reach erroneous conclusions, but their incompetence denies them the metacognitive ability to recognize their mistakes.[1] The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their ability as above average, much higher than it actually is, while the highly skilled underrate their own abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority.
The talk of a higher level forum has been discussed for a long time, I think it's time to implement it.
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On January 03 2012 01:30 Roggay wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 01:29 Ravnemesteren wrote:On January 03 2012 01:27 Roggay wrote:On January 03 2012 01:24 Ravnemesteren wrote:On January 03 2012 01:20 Roggay wrote:On January 03 2012 01:15 DeekZ wrote:
The problem with pros posting is that they just end up getting into arguments with trolls and get called unprofessional every time, obvious example is incontrol, every time he posts he gets insulted, which starts an argument, which ends in everyone calling incontrol unprofessional, not to mention all the shit is posted on reddit and twitter, I suspect if the Starcraft community was a little less like TMZ the pros would be more inclined to post. Every internet community is like that or way worse. It's just the way it is and you have to live with it. Ofc it is not pleasant and does not encourage the pros to post more. Some internet communities are better or worse than others. And TL is not at all the best when it comes to this, so just saying "live with it", is not a good attitude in my opinion. Its always nice to try to improve instead of just giving in and letting the shit run rampant. Honestly, for a community this big, its really difficult to find something better. So the -world has gone to shit, no point in trying to do anything with it- is a good attitude? It is a realistic attitude atleast. Good for you if you want to be all idealistic about it.
No its a lazy and defeatist attitude, but thats just my opinion.
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Most of the time i don't even notice when it's a pro writing on the forum anyway. Only the ones with special icons perhaps. :/
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On January 03 2012 01:35 Ravnemesteren wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 01:30 Roggay wrote:On January 03 2012 01:29 Ravnemesteren wrote:On January 03 2012 01:27 Roggay wrote:On January 03 2012 01:24 Ravnemesteren wrote:On January 03 2012 01:20 Roggay wrote:On January 03 2012 01:15 DeekZ wrote:
The problem with pros posting is that they just end up getting into arguments with trolls and get called unprofessional every time, obvious example is incontrol, every time he posts he gets insulted, which starts an argument, which ends in everyone calling incontrol unprofessional, not to mention all the shit is posted on reddit and twitter, I suspect if the Starcraft community was a little less like TMZ the pros would be more inclined to post. Every internet community is like that or way worse. It's just the way it is and you have to live with it. Ofc it is not pleasant and does not encourage the pros to post more. Some internet communities are better or worse than others. And TL is not at all the best when it comes to this, so just saying "live with it", is not a good attitude in my opinion. Its always nice to try to improve instead of just giving in and letting the shit run rampant. Honestly, for a community this big, its really difficult to find something better. So the -world has gone to shit, no point in trying to do anything with it- is a good attitude? It is a realistic attitude atleast. Good for you if you want to be all idealistic about it. No its a lazy and defeatist attitude, but thats just my opinion.
Lazy? It's not like I can do anything about it except write well and be nice.
And anyway, you can change the rules, but not the people.
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I think they should create a system that blizzard has where you can specifically see blue posts, or posts by blizz employees. What if TL had this system but instead of just admins of TL it also included pros? would be cool.
But for reals, they need a pro only strategy section so we can weed through a lot of the amateur strategies.
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Why would anyone try to discuss advice with retards who have no grasp of something? I don't see why people think pro's should post more, it just ignites mass dick-sucking and/or flaming. The forum that pros use is a team house, and it should stay that way. I don't even think pros should lurk here, TL is just a community of noobs trying to find an answer to something that pro's already know.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Belgium9947 Posts
On January 02 2012 23:20 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 23:06 Vekalisk wrote:
There are a rare few that continue to post through the bullshit, but what's the point really if they're just going to get morons criticising them. I hate it how these people go out of their way to try and help the lower levels and get flamed, I'd personally like to hear why someone's strategy might be invalid from a pro rather than a self-proclaimed strategy guru that barely plays the game.
IMO the problem is the all too commonly believed myth that it is possible to understand the game without being good at it. "I am in gold league but I watch the game a lot so I have a good understanding of it." "I know what to do, I just don't have the mechanics." As a result, you have people who know nothing about the game trying to argue with pros.
Yes, this is the main problem. It's the same problem that existed in BW (except in BW mechanics holding someone back was actually a real possibility).
The average SC2 poster/player is just way too arrogant and overestimates his strategic insight because he watched a few dailies. Humbleness is key.
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On January 03 2012 01:32 VoirDire wrote:I think that people should be aware of the Dunning-Kruger effect. Show nested quote +The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled people make poor decisions and reach erroneous conclusions, but their incompetence denies them the metacognitive ability to recognize their mistakes.[1] The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their ability as above average, much higher than it actually is, while the highly skilled underrate their own abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority. The talk of a higher level forum has been discussed for a long time, I think it's time to implement it.
LOL, I can't believe this is an actual thing... How convenient to just copy paste this whenever appropriate.
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On January 03 2012 01:46 BushidoSnipr wrote:
Why would anyone try to discuss advice with retards who have no grasp of something? I don't see why people think pro's should post more, it just ignites mass dick-sucking and/or flaming. The forum that pros use is a team house, and it should stay that way. I don't even think pros should lurk here, TL is just a community of noobs trying to find an answer to something that pro's already know.
i think u right sir (
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
I would hate for there to be a Pro only section, that would be terrible, but I would love for Pro's to post more. Unfortunately, I completely understand why they don't post anymore, they get shat on for it.
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One thing I've noticed is that whenever someone who isn't a pro makes a good post - a good post being one which could move the discussion forward instead of it stagnating for seven or eight pages - that post is often totally ignored. If a pro makes a post of a similar caliber (which a pro is wont to do because pros are pros because of their understanding and skill in the game), then that post is often picked apart and hated on by people who apparently just wanted to continue discussing the same thing in circles.
Am i the only one that notices how often people's good posts go ignored or unnoticed? I think sometimes that many people here seem to be here for entertainment rather than debate or discussion.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 03 2012 00:14 FLuE wrote:
I love how people want eSports to be mainstream, and continue to grow but then are surprised when the natural progression that comes with that growth happens. You can't have it both ways, players that are getting more and more popular/famous and still have that personal interaction to the same degree as say TL BW or early SC2 prior to the popularity boom.
I thought that the spoiler'd post was pretty good, for example... but nobody seems to have noticed it.
Is the answer that people will do whatever the hell they want to do? Find out in the next episode~~
immediate edit: I rarely post but always lurk and see these unnoticed posts slip into obscurity ^^
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On January 03 2012 01:41 emc wrote:
I think they should create a system that blizzard has where you can specifically see blue posts, or posts by blizz employees. What if TL had this system but instead of just admins of TL it also included pros? would be cool.
But for reals, they need a pro only strategy section so we can weed through a lot of the amateur strategies.
A pro only strategy form... hell even a gm only strategy form will have to few users posting, you might as well just watch a certain pro stream and see his ladder strategy ( many of them will explain them )rather than wait for him to have enough free time to make a post about it in a "special" forum where only other pros can comment on it and therefor you won't even be able to ask the question you might be able to in stream chat.
And then say you extend that forum on "master only", you already have stupid ppl posting, as someone mentioned before the line in sc2 between understanding and just all ining a bunch with good mechanics and having luck is thin and even some of the small names pros are on the "bad" side of it.
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On January 03 2012 01:41 emc wrote:
I think they should create a system that blizzard has where you can specifically see blue posts, or posts by blizz employees. What if TL had this system but instead of just admins of TL it also included pros? would be cool.
But for reals, they need a pro only strategy section so we can weed through a lot of the amateur strategies.
That's not happening. They've discussed that to death.
They'll get weeded out eventually and of course they branch out to other things. I don't expect the base to stay this way. Sure, we have a few more expansions to go-- Blizzard dragging out the process a little longer, but it will eventually happen.
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On January 03 2012 01:52 Tonybarbosa wrote:One thing I've noticed is that whenever someone who isn't a pro makes a good post - a good post being one which could move the discussion forward instead of it stagnating for seven or eight pages - that post is often totally ignored. If a pro makes a post of a similar caliber (which a pro is wont to do because pros are pros because of their understanding and skill in the game), then that post is often picked apart and hated on by people who apparently just wanted to continue discussing the same thing in circles. Am i the only one that notices how often people's good posts go ignored or unnoticed? I think sometimes that many people here seem to be here for entertainment rather than debate or discussion. + Show Spoiler +On January 03 2012 00:14 FLuE wrote:
I love how people want eSports to be mainstream, and continue to grow but then are surprised when the natural progression that comes with that growth happens. You can't have it both ways, players that are getting more and more popular/famous and still have that personal interaction to the same degree as say TL BW or early SC2 prior to the popularity boom. I thought that the spoiler'd post was pretty good, for example... but nobody seems to have noticed it. Is the answer that people will do whatever the hell they want to do? Find out in the next episode~~ immediate edit: I rarely post but always lurk and see these unnoticed posts slip into obscurity ^^
I agree. I wrote a pretty good post a few pages ago and it got completely ignored :p
That's why I put it in this spoiler again, isn't that great?
+ Show Spoiler +On January 02 2012 23:36 JOJOsc2news wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 23:10 iaguz wrote:
Reading some of incontrols.... discussions with people should give you a really good idea why most pros don't bother to post shit a lot of the time.
There are a lot of little fuckers out there and it's hardly worth it Ok. I think we need to stop here and take charge of something we love. TL. I can understand the general sentiment among the professional players that posting will expose them to a lot of opinions (both positive/negative and too positive/ too negative) purely based on their popularity. That is a shame! It is a fucking shame that a lot of people are not able to appreciate input and insights from players who do not need to do this. I think the fact that there is still so much communication between the "big ones" and the rest of the community is what makes it so much fun and is one of the reasons why so many people actively contribute to the community. Because they know everyone is contributing above and beyond what they need to, even the pros! As I said before: It is a shame that some people don't seem to be able to appreciate this. Now finally coming to the quote: This sort of resignation is the worst kind of answer to the people who do not show appreciation for the interactions and communication from the pillars of our community. "It's hardly worth it" is the worst thing you can say. This community is definitely worth it and people saying it's not do a worse job than those expressing their "imbecile" opinions. A great majority of us wants to hear from the pros and only a few want to just "own" a pro in an argument (can't even call it an argument most of the time). Why would we bow to the few f(iretr)uckers? I say we encourage all pros to post and show 'em some respect (and that doesn't necessarily mean "Yes, I love you." or "You are always right. I want your babies"). I think we're worth it! + Show Spoiler +Jojo Oh and by the way. I think the TL mods are doing quite a good job at reacting to people insulting pros. Thx! Edit: The wookie
Still, I think the interaction with the pro's is something very worthwhile and should be conserved for as long as possible. As a lot of people have pointed out. This will happen less and less with the growing scale of eSports and eSports fame. Calling for Pro-only forums etc. is nonsense in my opinion. Why not try to be civilized and enjoy that the professionals interact with us?
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On January 03 2012 01:52 Tonybarbosa wrote:One thing I've noticed is that whenever someone who isn't a pro makes a good post - a good post being one which could move the discussion forward instead of it stagnating for seven or eight pages - that post is often totally ignored. If a pro makes a post of a similar caliber (which a pro is wont to do because pros are pros because of their understanding and skill in the game), then that post is often picked apart and hated on by people who apparently just wanted to continue discussing the same thing in circles. Am i the only one that notices how often people's good posts go ignored or unnoticed? I think sometimes that many people here seem to be here for entertainment rather than debate or discussion. + Show Spoiler +On January 03 2012 00:14 FLuE wrote:
I love how people want eSports to be mainstream, and continue to grow but then are surprised when the natural progression that comes with that growth happens. You can't have it both ways, players that are getting more and more popular/famous and still have that personal interaction to the same degree as say TL BW or early SC2 prior to the popularity boom. I thought that the spoiler'd post was pretty good, for example... but nobody seems to have noticed it. Is the answer that people will do whatever the hell they want to do? Find out in the next episode~~ immediate edit: I rarely post but always lurk and see these unnoticed posts slip into obscurity ^^
Your post will be ignored! I guess that's a compliment
Edit: too late..
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On January 03 2012 01:47 RaGe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 23:20 iamke55 wrote:On January 02 2012 23:06 Vekalisk wrote:
There are a rare few that continue to post through the bullshit, but what's the point really if they're just going to get morons criticising them. I hate it how these people go out of their way to try and help the lower levels and get flamed, I'd personally like to hear why someone's strategy might be invalid from a pro rather than a self-proclaimed strategy guru that barely plays the game.
IMO the problem is the all too commonly believed myth that it is possible to understand the game without being good at it. "I am in gold league but I watch the game a lot so I have a good understanding of it." "I know what to do, I just don't have the mechanics." As a result, you have people who know nothing about the game trying to argue with pros. Yes, this is the main problem. It's the same problem that existed in BW (except in BW mechanics holding someone back was actually a real possibility). The average SC2 poster/player is just way too arrogant and overestimates his strategic insight because he watched a few dailies. Humbleness is key.
Nothing to do with SC2 or BW. The average person on the internet is just is just way too arrogant and overestimates his insight, just because he read half of the topic name on an average forum. You can see that as good or bad, but the internet gives people the chance to discuss what they think, no matter if they have a clue or not. TLs moderation policy does something to stop the most idiotic posts, but the effort seems very huge to me and you can't really reach the goal on an open forum.
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Do pros really want to post in strategy sections now a days anyway? Now that it is so competitive... If you post to much about strategies/mind-set etc an opponent can easily get an advantage over you by simple reading what you think... Just a thought
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On January 03 2012 01:58 JOJOsc2news wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 01:52 Tonybarbosa wrote:One thing I've noticed is that whenever someone who isn't a pro makes a good post - a good post being one which could move the discussion forward instead of it stagnating for seven or eight pages - that post is often totally ignored. If a pro makes a post of a similar caliber (which a pro is wont to do because pros are pros because of their understanding and skill in the game), then that post is often picked apart and hated on by people who apparently just wanted to continue discussing the same thing in circles. Am i the only one that notices how often people's good posts go ignored or unnoticed? I think sometimes that many people here seem to be here for entertainment rather than debate or discussion. + Show Spoiler +On January 03 2012 00:14 FLuE wrote:
I love how people want eSports to be mainstream, and continue to grow but then are surprised when the natural progression that comes with that growth happens. You can't have it both ways, players that are getting more and more popular/famous and still have that personal interaction to the same degree as say TL BW or early SC2 prior to the popularity boom. I thought that the spoiler'd post was pretty good, for example... but nobody seems to have noticed it. Is the answer that people will do whatever the hell they want to do? Find out in the next episode~~ immediate edit: I rarely post but always lurk and see these unnoticed posts slip into obscurity ^^ I agree. I wrote a pretty good post a few pages ago and it got completely ignored :p That's why I put it in this spoiler again, isn't that great? + Show Spoiler +On January 02 2012 23:36 JOJOsc2news wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 23:10 iaguz wrote:
Reading some of incontrols.... discussions with people should give you a really good idea why most pros don't bother to post shit a lot of the time.
There are a lot of little fuckers out there and it's hardly worth it Ok. I think we need to stop here and take charge of something we love. TL. I can understand the general sentiment among the professional players that posting will expose them to a lot of opinions (both positive/negative and too positive/ too negative) purely based on their popularity. That is a shame! It is a fucking shame that a lot of people are not able to appreciate input and insights from players who do not need to do this. I think the fact that there is still so much communication between the "big ones" and the rest of the community is what makes it so much fun and is one of the reasons why so many people actively contribute to the community. Because they know everyone is contributing above and beyond what they need to, even the pros! As I said before: It is a shame that some people don't seem to be able to appreciate this. Now finally coming to the quote: This sort of resignation is the worst kind of answer to the people who do not show appreciation for the interactions and communication from the pillars of our community. "It's hardly worth it" is the worst thing you can say. This community is definitely worth it and people saying it's not do a worse job than those expressing their "imbecile" opinions. A great majority of us wants to hear from the pros and only a few want to just "own" a pro in an argument (can't even call it an argument most of the time). Why would we bow to the few f(iretr)uckers? I say we encourage all pros to post and show 'em some respect (and that doesn't necessarily mean "Yes, I love you." or "You are always right. I want your babies"). I think we're worth it! + Show Spoiler +Jojo Oh and by the way. I think the TL mods are doing quite a good job at reacting to people insulting pros. Thx! Edit: The wookie Still, I think the interaction with the pro's is something very worthwhile and should be conserved for as long as possible. As a lot of people have pointed out. This will happen less and less with the growing scale of eSports and eSports fame. Calling for Pro-only forums etc. is nonsense in my opinion. Why not try to be civilized and enjoy that the professionals interact with us?
Oi, I don't know if you're having a go at me but all i meant to say was that it seems like posters are often ignoring things which can benefit the topic that they are discussing, simply because it is counter to what they say - but when a pro says it they go in all guns blazing.
Maybe these guys are just 'Calliclesians' who are only looking out for pleasure so perhaps it is our job to enlighten them by explaining that pleasure and goodness are not the same thing, thus enlightening them and making TL a better place.
It's not like my posts were ever ignored~! It has never happened to me!! If you check my post before, which I will now put in spoilers just incase you missed it, you will see that I wasn't referring to one of my own posts
+ Show Spoiler +One thing I've noticed is that whenever someone who isn't a pro makes a good post - a good post being one which could move the discussion forward instead of it stagnating for seven or eight pages - that post is often totally ignored. If a pro makes a post of a similar caliber (which a pro is wont to do because pros are pros because of their understanding and skill in the game), then that post is often picked apart and hated on by people who apparently just wanted to continue discussing the same thing in circles.
Am i the only one that notices how often people's good posts go ignored or unnoticed? I think sometimes that many people here seem to be here for entertainment rather than debate or discussion.
+ Show Spoiler +
I thought that the spoiler'd post was pretty good, for example... but nobody seems to have noticed it.
Is the answer that people will do whatever the hell they want to do? Find out in the next episode~~
immediate edit: I rarely post but always lurk and see these unnoticed posts slip into obscurity ^^
Okay, maybe it has happened to me before, but in this case I just wanted people to notice flue's post on page six because it seems to be relevant and well written, yet totally ignored : D
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HuK posted a lot when he was in Team Liquid, he still does but a lot less posts. Other players who might lurk are some who stream Dimaga, White-Ra some koreans etc.
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If you could "show" replays in the OP, with snapshots or a slideshow or something similar, I think the average thread quality would improve tenfold.
Someone mentioned 2+2, I think the main reason threads are better there is that the poker hand is in the OP. Despite the purge, 90% of people responding to threads have not watched the replay nor have they ever intended to do so.
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Almost every foreigner pro with a stream has an account on TL. Do they post a lot, no.
I've seen quite a few though post.
Merz
Select (not so much anymore)
Team Liquid players
incontrol
Darkforce
Idra (most EG players post rarely)
Naruto
Morrow
Naniwa
ClouD
Terran/windy/princess/britney
TT1
Gretorp
tgun
Kawaiirice
thorzain (from time to time)
RaNged
Kyhol
Strelok (very rarely)
Some others I cannot remember
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On January 03 2012 02:07 Tonybarbosa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 01:58 JOJOsc2news wrote:On January 03 2012 01:52 Tonybarbosa wrote:One thing I've noticed is that whenever someone who isn't a pro makes a good post - a good post being one which could move the discussion forward instead of it stagnating for seven or eight pages - that post is often totally ignored. If a pro makes a post of a similar caliber (which a pro is wont to do because pros are pros because of their understanding and skill in the game), then that post is often picked apart and hated on by people who apparently just wanted to continue discussing the same thing in circles. Am i the only one that notices how often people's good posts go ignored or unnoticed? I think sometimes that many people here seem to be here for entertainment rather than debate or discussion. + Show Spoiler +On January 03 2012 00:14 FLuE wrote:
I love how people want eSports to be mainstream, and continue to grow but then are surprised when the natural progression that comes with that growth happens. You can't have it both ways, players that are getting more and more popular/famous and still have that personal interaction to the same degree as say TL BW or early SC2 prior to the popularity boom. I thought that the spoiler'd post was pretty good, for example... but nobody seems to have noticed it. Is the answer that people will do whatever the hell they want to do? Find out in the next episode~~ immediate edit: I rarely post but always lurk and see these unnoticed posts slip into obscurity ^^ I agree. I wrote a pretty good post a few pages ago and it got completely ignored :p That's why I put it in this spoiler again, isn't that great? + Show Spoiler +On January 02 2012 23:36 JOJOsc2news wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 23:10 iaguz wrote:
Reading some of incontrols.... discussions with people should give you a really good idea why most pros don't bother to post shit a lot of the time.
There are a lot of little fuckers out there and it's hardly worth it Ok. I think we need to stop here and take charge of something we love. TL. I can understand the general sentiment among the professional players that posting will expose them to a lot of opinions (both positive/negative and too positive/ too negative) purely based on their popularity. That is a shame! It is a fucking shame that a lot of people are not able to appreciate input and insights from players who do not need to do this. I think the fact that there is still so much communication between the "big ones" and the rest of the community is what makes it so much fun and is one of the reasons why so many people actively contribute to the community. Because they know everyone is contributing above and beyond what they need to, even the pros! As I said before: It is a shame that some people don't seem to be able to appreciate this. Now finally coming to the quote: This sort of resignation is the worst kind of answer to the people who do not show appreciation for the interactions and communication from the pillars of our community. "It's hardly worth it" is the worst thing you can say. This community is definitely worth it and people saying it's not do a worse job than those expressing their "imbecile" opinions. A great majority of us wants to hear from the pros and only a few want to just "own" a pro in an argument (can't even call it an argument most of the time). Why would we bow to the few f(iretr)uckers? I say we encourage all pros to post and show 'em some respect (and that doesn't necessarily mean "Yes, I love you." or "You are always right. I want your babies"). I think we're worth it! + Show Spoiler +Jojo Oh and by the way. I think the TL mods are doing quite a good job at reacting to people insulting pros. Thx! Edit: The wookie Still, I think the interaction with the pro's is something very worthwhile and should be conserved for as long as possible. As a lot of people have pointed out. This will happen less and less with the growing scale of eSports and eSports fame. Calling for Pro-only forums etc. is nonsense in my opinion. Why not try to be civilized and enjoy that the professionals interact with us? Oi, I don't know if you're having a go at me but all i meant to say was that it seems like posters are often ignoring things which can benefit the topic that they are discussing, simply because it is counter to what they say - but when a pro says it they go in all guns blazing. Maybe these guys are just 'Calliclesians' who are only looking out for pleasure so perhaps it is our job to enlighten them by explaining that pleasure and goodness are not the same thing, thus enlightening them and making TL a better place. It's not like my posts were ever ignored~! It has never happened to me!! If you check my post before, which I will now put in spoilers just incase you missed it, you will see that I wasn't referring to one of my own posts + Show Spoiler +One thing I've noticed is that whenever someone who isn't a pro makes a good post - a good post being one which could move the discussion forward instead of it stagnating for seven or eight pages - that post is often totally ignored. If a pro makes a post of a similar caliber (which a pro is wont to do because pros are pros because of their understanding and skill in the game), then that post is often picked apart and hated on by people who apparently just wanted to continue discussing the same thing in circles.
Am i the only one that notices how often people's good posts go ignored or unnoticed? I think sometimes that many people here seem to be here for entertainment rather than debate or discussion.
+ Show Spoiler +
I thought that the spoiler'd post was pretty good, for example... but nobody seems to have noticed it.
Is the answer that people will do whatever the hell they want to do? Find out in the next episode~~
immediate edit: I rarely post but always lurk and see these unnoticed posts slip into obscurity ^^ Okay, maybe it has happened to me before, but in this case I just wanted people to notice flue's post on page six because it seems to be relevant and well written, yet totally ignored : D
Oi :D
I wasn't having a go at you. I was genuinely agreeing with you and genuinely in love with my post I put in the spoiler. I think it added a lot to the topic and could have stirred up some intellectually challenging stuff.
It got ignored again. But hey... I guess that's what happens to posts that are just too good which is proving your point!
+ Show Spoiler +
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On January 03 2012 02:20 masterbreti wrote:
Almost every foreigner pro with a stream has an account on TL. Do they post a lot, no.
I've seen quite a few though post.
Merz
Select (not so much anymore)
Team Liquid players
incontrol
Darkforce
Idra (most EG players post rarely)
Naruto
Morrow
Naniwa
ClouD
Terran/windy/princess/britney
TT1
Gretorp
tgun
Kawaiirice
thorzain (from time to time)
RaNged
Kyhol
Strelok (very rarely)
Some others I cannot remember
TLO, qxc...
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On January 03 2012 02:22 JOJOsc2news wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 02:20 masterbreti wrote:
Almost every foreigner pro with a stream has an account on TL. Do they post a lot, no.
I've seen quite a few though post.
Merz
Select (not so much anymore)
Team Liquid players
incontrol
Darkforce
Idra (most EG players post rarely)
Naruto
Morrow
Naniwa
ClouD
Terran/windy/princess/britney
TT1
Gretorp
tgun
Kawaiirice
thorzain (from time to time)
RaNged
Kyhol
Strelok (very rarely)
Some others I cannot remember
In 2 of the 3 last threads I made there were posts by TLO, qxc and more.
Like I had said. There are more I could not remember. The list is off the top of my head so its nowhere near comprehensive.
Also TLO is included with "Liquid players," instead of me listing every single Liquid player.
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On January 02 2012 21:14 Jedclark wrote:
Perhaps pros/GM players could get an icon or something so they are easily identifiable.
GM shouldnt count. its still broken.
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On January 03 2012 02:22 JOJOsc2news wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 03 2012 02:20 masterbreti wrote:
Almost every foreigner pro with a stream has an account on TL. Do they post a lot, no.
I've seen quite a few though post.
Merz
Select (not so much anymore)
Team Liquid players
incontrol
Darkforce
Idra (most EG players post rarely)
Naruto
Morrow
Naniwa
ClouD
Terran/windy/princess/britney
TT1
Gretorp
tgun
Kawaiirice
thorzain (from time to time)
RaNged
Kyhol
Strelok (very rarely)
Some others I cannot remember
TLO, qxc...
OFC you forgot iNcontrol who posts a lot for a pro. (currently, I know he has like 27K post or something)
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On January 03 2012 01:47 RaGe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 23:20 iamke55 wrote:On January 02 2012 23:06 Vekalisk wrote:
There are a rare few that continue to post through the bullshit, but what's the point really if they're just going to get morons criticising them. I hate it how these people go out of their way to try and help the lower levels and get flamed, I'd personally like to hear why someone's strategy might be invalid from a pro rather than a self-proclaimed strategy guru that barely plays the game.
IMO the problem is the all too commonly believed myth that it is possible to understand the game without being good at it. "I am in gold league but I watch the game a lot so I have a good understanding of it." "I know what to do, I just don't have the mechanics." As a result, you have people who know nothing about the game trying to argue with pros. Yes, this is the main problem. It's the same problem that existed in BW (except in BW mechanics holding someone back was actually a real possibility). The average SC2 poster/player is just way too arrogant and overestimates his strategic insight because he watched a few dailies. Humbleness is key.
I know I'm pretty bad compared to pros. Its just so confusing and I'm sure it is for the rest of people playing the game when you go on ladder you play an hour a day and you are beating pros who play 12 hours. Obviously part of the game is luck, pros may be fucking around, etc.. I have to admit though I've bragged to people about beating a some pro on ladder before. Does it mean I'm as good as them no but it definitely makes me think I understand the game better then I do. Especially when I see the greater amount of effort put into the game then I did through the replay. The game just inherently allows for lesser skilled players to beat those of greater skill and its kinda annoying.
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On January 03 2012 02:20 masterbreti wrote:
Almost every foreigner pro with a stream has an account on TL. Do they post a lot, no.
I've seen quite a few though post.
Merz
Select (not so much anymore)
Team Liquid players
incontrol
Darkforce
Idra (most EG players post rarely)
Naruto
Morrow
Naniwa
ClouD
Terran/windy/princess/britney
TT1
Gretorp
tgun
Kawaiirice
thorzain (from time to time)
RaNged
Kyhol
Strelok (very rarely)
Some others I cannot remember
Pokebunny posts quite a bit.
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I feel like the general consensus right now is that the pros either just but hugged or talk to some idiot which makes me wonder if both of those things could be solved by the ban hammer? If we made the strategy section just about strategy and if a bronzie wants to post let them post but they have to do it in a respectful way, and someone can just assume they'll credit where credit is due.
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On January 03 2012 02:52 GiMMiK wrote:
I feel like the general consensus right now is that the pros either just but hugged or talk to some idiot which makes me wonder if both of those things could be solved by the ban hammer? If we made the strategy section just about strategy and if a bronzie wants to post let them post but they have to do it in a respectful way, and someone can just assume they'll credit where credit is due.
I agree and I really hope the pros will keep posting!
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Reddit has a script that adds your SC2 league icon to your posts. I always wondered why TL hasn't done the same. Whenever someone is disagreeing with a pro, its tough to tell if they're bronze league or are a noname high masters/gm. Just because a pro has a name from LAN/stream doesn't mean they're correct 100% of the time.
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On January 03 2012 02:20 masterbreti wrote:
Almost every foreigner pro with a stream has an account on TL. Do they post a lot, no.
I've seen quite a few though post.
Merz
Select (not so much anymore)
Team Liquid players
incontrol
Darkforce
Idra (most EG players post rarely)
Naruto
Morrow
Naniwa
ClouD
Terran/windy/princess/britney
TT1
Gretorp
tgun
Kawaiirice
thorzain (from time to time)
RaNged
Kyhol
Strelok (very rarely)
Some others I cannot remember
BeastyQT post a lot.
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On January 03 2012 03:04 RoboBob wrote:
Reddit has a script that adds your SC2 league icon to your posts. I always wondered why TL hasn't done the same. Whenever someone is disagreeing with a pro, its tough to tell if they're bronze league or are a noname high masters/gm. Just because a pro has a name from LAN/stream doesn't mean they're correct 100% of the time.
Do you just attach your battle.net id to your reddit profile or is there some kind of "proof" that your the owner of the specific account? If not that feature is kinda useless.
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On January 02 2012 18:19 T.O.P. wrote:
Back in the broodwar days, Idra used to post a lot. He's one of the few writing good posts in the strategy forum. SC2 came and he no longer cares.
Its probably more accurate to say that he was surrounded by Koreans and had no one to really talk to and communicate with due to the language barrier, so TL was one of the few ways he got to do so. Now, he's in the SlayerS house w/ HuK and Demuslim, and there are a lot more foreigners in Korea that they can socialize with. In addition, all strategy innovation in BW came from Korea so he had something unique and new to share, and Korea was so far ahead that giving away his builds to foreigners simply didn't matter. On top of all of that, more people ledas to more annoying people, and especially for someone like IdrA, they like to troll and annoy.
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They would like to just post what they want to say and have people enjoy it. Rather, when they post, they have to post 3 more times in the same thread defending their argument from people that have no clue. Then, when others who have a clue post to defend them as well, yet more jump in claiming, "just cuz he's pro doesn't mean he knows everything." and the like.
They know that all that will happen before they even click "post," so why bother? It won't be appreciated anyway.
In short, people, whether they ever did or not, do not know how to argue. Arguing is not for winning, it is for arriving at the correct conclusion. If you argue to win, you are neither wise nor mature. Listen carefully to these two sentences and see if you can tell the difference: 1)Wow, I hadn't thought of that before, are you sure you are correct in supposing the outset? 2) Wow, I'm not even going to glorify that statement with a response; any idiot can see that you're wrong.
One is seeking knowledge, the other is seeking its own.
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Day9, Artosis and Tasteless used to post here like years ago. they just dont post anymore
Artosis even got a star for so much things he used to post/do here.
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On January 03 2012 03:12 Neelia wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 03:04 RoboBob wrote:
Reddit has a script that adds your SC2 league icon to your posts. I always wondered why TL hasn't done the same. Whenever someone is disagreeing with a pro, its tough to tell if they're bronze league or are a noname high masters/gm. Just because a pro has a name from LAN/stream doesn't mean they're correct 100% of the time. Do you just attach your battle.net id to your reddit profile or is there some kind of "proof" that your the owner of the specific account? If not that feature is kinda useless.
You just chose race, nothing "high tech".
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wait sheth plays mafia and i never seen him wtf! also he wouldnt vote anyone to die how does he play!
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United States2095 Posts
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whats vote me do im scared tbh
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that was hilarious sheth.
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On January 03 2012 05:06 ComaDose wrote:
that was hilarious sheth.
only thing i think is i said he wouldnt votebut this sint mafia i dont die! (hopefully) ♥
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acting like you don't understand rules = scum tell
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On January 03 2012 05:15 dementrio wrote:
acting like you don't understand rules = scum tell
tbh i dont even know most roles as mafia i just try to pick up tells
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also does that mean im the first person sheth has openly admitted he would kill!
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On January 03 2012 05:17 samthesaluki wrote:
also does that mean im the first person sheth has openly admitted he would kill!
No, he would kill Destiny, if it saved more than 9000 lives or so.
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ah also i thought you meant the mafia custom just realized you have old school forum mafia my bad.
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I always love to see pros/public figures post here, they provide interesting insights.
Too bad that when people are on forums they tend to treat anything as if it's a competition, instead of a confrontation... so they use whatever they can "to win".
Therefore we get very few pros who still bother to post their honest opinion (Cloud is the first example that comes into my mind) and then some other who come here but actually soften everything they write or just post compliments/emoticons and so on.
The very few times I happened to interact with some pros they were really nice and gave me insights I didn't expected.
We should treasure their presence, it's one of the reasons why TL is the most useful Sc2 site on the net.
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Honestly, it just comes with the territory. It will only get worse too as SC2 grows. When you're a top-tier pro, you sort of give up the right to be just a part of the discussion/another poster =/
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Why not have a separate forum where only pros and knowledgeable people can post but the general community can still read the discussions?
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you get a good idea if you check the progamers streams and almost everyone of them has a TL tab open in their browser.
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On January 02 2012 18:19 T.O.P. wrote:
Back in the broodwar days, Idra used to post a lot. He's one of the few writing good posts in the strategy forum. SC2 came and he no longer cares.
He was almost as bad as Artosis with the imba underpowered whines about Terran, iirc...
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The larger the fan-base the larger the gap between the "pros" and us peons will become. It is the natural progression of things. A slight difference now is that we have streaming where pros have a platform to voice their opinions, discuss strategy and interact with their fans if they choose to do so.... or grope pornstars... for what its worth.
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On January 03 2012 05:33 llnoobeaterll wrote:
Why not have a separate forum where only pros and knowledgeable people can post but the general community can still read the discussions?
I dont think most pro's want to put a ton of their opinions in writing. It's a lot easier for people to spin their words if they write them on a forum. And if they put it in a special forum like that, it would get a lot more attention. Also, who would determine who the pro's are? Would b-team level players be considered pro's?
Besides, I thought I remember hearing that MLG had special forums for pro's to discuss what they liked/didn't like about their tournaments, but not many pro's actually posted there. (They mentioned it on one of the SOTG i believe, could be wrong)
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On January 03 2012 05:33 llnoobeaterll wrote:
Why not have a separate forum where only pros and knowledgeable people can post but the general community can still read the discussions?
Because that's even more elitist?
It's not like anyone would post there anyway. If pros want to talk to each other, they skype. There is noting IdrA is going to post that he doesn't want anyone except MorroW or Huk to comment on.
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from what I've gathered most think people here are a bit too stupid to even bother also heard a lot of complaints about the very strict mods
it's too serious in here
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On January 02 2012 20:50 Snettik wrote:
It would actually be nice if there would be a forum where only pros/people who know about sc2 could post and most people would just read it (like me and other noobs). That would pretty much be the opposite of TL these days. Pro posts get buried under a mountain of shit.
EDIT: also i'm too dumb to see what is a retarded strategy post and what is not so it's really hard to actually get anything out of the strategy forum
I feel like TL should really experiment with this kind of stuff or even limit posts per day to 2 or 3 until you get a certain amount of karma or something
its the only forum I visit where I don't recognize names of most posters after a while .... seems like there is too many posters and posts and everything is diluted ... I really hope TL takes a look at the way the forums work and see if anything can be done
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Because whenever one of them posts something its a big deal and it gets blown out of proportion either for good or for bad.
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On January 03 2012 02:39 Grovbolle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 02:22 JOJOsc2news wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 03 2012 02:20 masterbreti wrote:
Almost every foreigner pro with a stream has an account on TL. Do they post a lot, no.
I've seen quite a few though post.
Merz
Select (not so much anymore)
Team Liquid players
incontrol
Darkforce
Idra (most EG players post rarely)
Naruto
Morrow
Naniwa
ClouD
Terran/windy/princess/britney
TT1
Gretorp
tgun
Kawaiirice
thorzain (from time to time)
RaNged
Kyhol
Strelok (very rarely)
Some others I cannot remember
TLO, qxc... OFC you forgot iNcontrol who posts a lot for a pro. (currently, I know he has like 27K post or something)
Incontrol posts a lot because he probably has two monitors and is a good multitasker
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Well if you can create a thread specifying posting rules with support from the mods, especially needed in threads where people start talking about scientific stuff after something related happened, then it would boost the post quality.
Lots of such threads are a mix of long, extensive posts and little posts stating a quick and blunt opinion, then there are pairs of people quoting themselves into massive argumentation chains and taking a shitload of space cause they are too lazy to put repetitive stuff in spoilers.
I cba to reply in such threads anymore being the more extensive type.
Still gonna depend on the rules of such threads though, and maybe there are better forums for certain topics..
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On January 03 2012 05:45 ReignFayth wrote:
from what I've gathered most think people here are a bit too stupid to even bother also heard a lot of complaints about the very strict mods
it's too serious in here
Mods aren't strict enough. It's kinda weird they have that reputation tbh.
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i posted in a sc2 strategy once about bio vs mech, and drewbie hopped in and pretty much cleared things up for me. thought it was pretty cool and helpful also lightened my perspective on team liquid!
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I think there is alot of pro interaction between pro's and the masses (bronze through masters) that occurs in their streams.
Example: I don't think i've seen WhiteRa post in these forums once (im sure he has, but I havn't seen it), but right now, his stream has over 10,000 viewers that he is, in a way, discussing stratagy with, simply by playing.
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This is impossible. They got rid of lurkers in starcraft 2.
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Of course the pro's come here, this is the premiere SC2 webiste to keep up on builds/news/tournaments/announcements. Most the pro's have been here and posting here since the days of broodwar, considering that is where most of them got started!
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On January 02 2012 18:19 T.O.P. wrote:
Back in the broodwar days, Idra used to post a lot. He's one of the few writing good posts in the strategy forum. SC2 came and he no longer cares.
Who can blame him. I stopped reading it after the beta
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On January 02 2012 20:12 DarKFoRcE wrote:
i agree with what idra said, i used to post quite regularly in the strategy forum, but i just cant be arsed to waste my time to argue with people who have no clue about the game, but great overestimate their knowledge. but they get super pissed when i tell them that they are just completely wrong.
It'd be great to have you back; even in the last 12 months the strat forum has degraded further and further.
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Canada11343 Posts
On January 02 2012 19:11 Megaliskuu wrote:
Nowadays when "pros" post they get a large number of people just nuthugging them and it ruins threads.
Maybe. But I wonder if it's mostly other forum posters that get irritated by this. I guess it could be pro's second irritation and certainly I don't see a lot of pro's desperate for group think following. But any time these sorts of threads come up, the pro's mention the arrogance of no-name posters more than anything else.
I don't really remember how pro's were treated in my 07 lurking days- I didn't really know who was who back then, but I suspect in SC2 a lot of people felt the playing field had been levelled in Beta and beyond leading to greater arrogance. BW is such a climb to get through and if you're D- you KNOW you're rubbish. There's a world of a difference between D- and even D/ D+. Nevermind B, A all the way up to Korean proleague A class and S class who were untouchable. That skill gradation exists in SC2, but for some reason the newness made people feel a little closer to the pro's... even if they weren't.
Also, it seems many personalities have consciously have withdrawn from posting without any particular grievance, but more pre-emptively. Tasteless aka MyLostTemple and Day9 come to mind. Both of them seem to have withdrawn before any sort of flaming or bashing could begin. As SC get's bigger, it just seems the path of least resistance to focus on your community involvement and leaving the posting to someone else.
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The strategy forum got a lot better after the purge, it should be a "safe" place for pros to post... but, of course, they have every reason not to discuss strategy publicly. It`s understandable.
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The chance of some retard spouting nonsense at a pro shouldn't be a deterrent for them to avoid posting about strategy and enlightening the many people who enjoy their posts. It's sad that the loud minority can prevent pros posting to that extent =(
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more pros posting would be great. there could be discussion threads about specific games and what they think went right/wrong for each player and other generally useful debates for us lower level players to make use of as well.
it's not like people exclusively shoot down pro posts. if they are the type of argue over someone else's statements, then they are likely the type to do that regardless of who said it. i feel like pros should just ignore those types of posts (or report or something) and just continue to discuss with people who are actually looking to learn instead of lengthen their e-peen.
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They will start posting again once they realize its again safe, I know i have.
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On January 03 2012 10:07 VTPerfect wrote:
They will start posting again once they realize its again safe, I know i have.
By that do you mean once some of the large amount of new posters that came in with the release of SC2 either learn the ways of TL or leave? Granted I'm obviously one of those noobs, though hopefully I've more or less assimilated to the TL ways.
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As a decently high masters player, even I feel that posting is mostly a pointless exercise in a lot of topics. Arguing with other players about balance or strategy, which composed a large amount of the topics in this forum, can be extremely frustrating to participate in. Generally when I read threads I'll skim over them and only read posts by mods, admins, or pro players not necessarily because their input is going to be amazingly insightful, but because it, more likely then not, wont be completely wrong.
The strategy forum in particular has been fairly useless as a resource. There are many good topics in the strategy forum, well written, easy to follow, thoroughly explained and detailed. The problem is in the responses in almost all cases. Having to wade through pages of masters or lower players argue is not helpful at all. I've personally been in the top ~500 NA players more then once and I know that my opinion is going to be wrong more often then not. Seeing people much, much worse then me argue about stuff they don't fully understand at a high level is completely pointless and a waste of time.
The addition of the "blue" posters in the strategy forum is a helpful addition but it often turns into a recognized high level player arguing with a random low level player, once again it's not helpful to read.
Personally I would enjoy a forum where you had to link to your battle.net or sc2ranks profile that is at minimum in the top 400 for your region. It might be elitist, it might not be active enough, it might be a lot of things. But it almost might promote more in depth and higher level strategy discussion.
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I saw the same issue occur back in the old days for Shoryuken website. Back when Street Fighter 3 Third strike and the whole daigo parry bullshit. That daigo incident pretty much introduced a whole lot of newbie players interested in the game. I witnessed it in my old arcade that I use to play at. All these random newbies that thought they were fucking good would talk so much shit only for me to whip their ass. It got annoying because they always talk about how good they were or the "perfect" strategy, but I've been playing the game for a long ass time before it was popular so to see new random players talk all this bullshit just turned me off. Also pro players like Justin Wong and Sanford Kelly used to post so much in the Marvel vs Capcom 2 forums, CvS2, and etc on the Shoryuken website. After a while though with Street Fighter IV coming out and shit it just seems pointless to post anymore because there is so much random garbage to sift through and many people are born to troll the random pro player that gets the guts to make a post.
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usually i really dont have that much time to post or read the forums nemore; now mostly because im on vacation.
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On January 03 2012 18:40 HuK wrote:
usually i really dont have that much time to post or read the forums nemore; now mostly because im on vacation.
Add HuK to the list of players that post ^^ also makes sense that pros don't have the time to, they practice 12 hours a day
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On January 03 2012 19:02 wattabeast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 18:40 HuK wrote:
usually i really dont have that much time to post or read the forums nemore; now mostly because im on vacation. Add HuK to the list of players that post ^^ also makes sense that pros don't have the time to, they practice 12 hours a day
You'd be suprised how many pros that aren't in teamhouses don't practice nearly as much as you think.
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Romania4926 Posts
Pros don't post that much because one post can ruin their image, so they really have to be careful with what they say. So, less is better i guess.
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Hearing pros say they don't post because of bad apples is really a shame. For every troll, there are 9 other people really appreciating the pros opinion. These people are alot less likely to post though, why would they. Ideally, the bad apples would just widely be ignored.
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On January 03 2012 19:06 FryktSkyene wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 19:02 wattabeast wrote:On January 03 2012 18:40 HuK wrote:
usually i really dont have that much time to post or read the forums nemore; now mostly because im on vacation. Add HuK to the list of players that post ^^ also makes sense that pros don't have the time to, they practice 12 hours a day You'd be suprised how many pros that aren't in teamhouses don't practice nearly as much as you think.
I dont think anyone would be suprised anymore though. Now a days you can really tell who is practicing for 8-10 hours and who is only doing it for 3-4....
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
I wonder if any long-standing forum users anywhere in cyberspace think their forum has improved and matured with age... things are forever going downhill (usually downhill = more people = I feel less speshal now)
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On January 04 2012 01:09 marvellosity wrote:
I wonder if any long-standing forum users anywhere in cyberspace think their forum has improved and matured with age... things are forever going downhill (usually downhill = more people = I feel less speshal now)
That decline is not a function of time, it's a function of popularity (and money).
I literally can't think of a single hobby or entertainment product that I enjoyed equally (or more) after it became hugely popular and/or people started getting paid for it as I did beforehand when it comes to the community feel.
It's not so much about feeling "special", it's more about feeling "at home".
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On January 03 2012 18:33 Silentness wrote:
I saw the same issue occur back in the old days for Shoryuken website. Back when Street Fighter 3 Third strike and the whole daigo parry bullshit. That daigo incident pretty much introduced a whole lot of newbie players interested in the game. I witnessed it in my old arcade that I use to play at. All these random newbies that thought they were fucking good would talk so much shit only for me to whip their ass. It got annoying because they always talk about how good they were or the "perfect" strategy, but I've been playing the game for a long ass time before it was popular so to see new random players talk all this bullshit just turned me off. Also pro players like Justin Wong and Sanford Kelly used to post so much in the Marvel vs Capcom 2 forums, CvS2, and etc on the Shoryuken website. After a while though with Street Fighter IV coming out and shit it just seems pointless to post anymore because there is so much random garbage to sift through and many people are born to troll the random pro player that gets the guts to make a post.
I can't tell what is worse, obnoxious elitists, or stupid newbies.
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Pro posts always go under a lot more scrutiny, so its no wonder they are inclined to post less.
Darkforce gives advice pretty often in the strategy forum though.
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On January 02 2012 18:26 GiMMiK wrote:
Grobyc and T.O.P- Why do you think they stopped caring about posting so much? I'm really quite curious. Is it the new members? The new atmosphere?
Indeed. I remember when there used to be a lot of good threads going with some good discussions. Now they seemed to be drowned out by useless fan threads (picture of player Y in room A), useless posts ("Congratulations!", "X fighting!", "Y is so cute!"), and lots of vocal and uninformed posters. Pointing things out usually just leads to flame wars because someone's feelings may have gotten hurt.
What I really miss are the threads where new macro techniques / micro tricks would be explored. Haven't seen one of those in ages.
It's really great that esports has taken off and is doing well but there are some cons to go with this as well. SC2 fans are no longer the hardcore nerds we know and love but embody all kinds of people. It is unfortunate that you can't have a logical argument/discussion with some of these people without a Vancouver Canucks riot occuring. You don't see sports stars discussing issues with fans (and for good reasons) so I suppose this is the natural course for the community. I am guessing the "Fan Clubs" section of the forum will be expanded in the future to help segregate the types of posts but Team Liquid is so mainstream now that I fear it has lost that "hardcore" community already.
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I've just been busy lately
I'll try to post more ^^
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+ Show Spoiler +On January 03 2012 05:02 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
##Vote: Samthesaluki
ENDGAME![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1tE9d.png)
Despite all the efforts made by Samthesaluki, he couldn't compete with such strong player like Liquid'Sheth. His quick vote ended the very long and painful game.
Samthesaluki The Saluki was killed in endgame lynch!
Liquid'Sheth The Brazilian Jack of All Trades Conspirator has achieved victory!
And thus, random mafia number random has ended! Visit this for more!
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I think TL needs a separate forum that is invite only as a contrast to the 'popular' forum.
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There should be a blues/pros only board that everyone has access to but only for reading. I would read that every day instead of the random low masters guy talking in an authoritative manner about god knows what.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On January 04 2012 03:59 sjh wrote:
I think TL needs a separate forum that is invite only as a contrast to the 'popular' forum.
How do you know there isn't one already but you just dont know about it!!!!
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On January 04 2012 04:50 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 03:59 sjh wrote:
I think TL needs a separate forum that is invite only as a contrast to the 'popular' forum. How do you know there isn't one already but you just dont know about it!!!!
Mind blown. Leave it to Plexa to give us something we can't twist our little minds around.
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On January 04 2012 04:50 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 03:59 sjh wrote:
I think TL needs a separate forum that is invite only as a contrast to the 'popular' forum. How do you know there isn't one already but you just dont know about it!!!!
oh hot damn.
This is pretty cool. Maybe its a haven where idrA and huk write love letters to each other and Sheth is a notorious flamer?
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On January 02 2012 18:16 Torte de Lini wrote:
A lot of pros used to post.
Then the site grew and they got tore apart sometimes on the forums.
That's the unfortunate of iNcontrol's predicament D:
That's what happens when the site grows. A lot of pros post well thought out posts which make sense only to get bashed by people whom often are gold/plat/diamond or whatnot. It's just not worth the time to do that lol
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On January 04 2012 04:50 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 03:59 sjh wrote:
I think TL needs a separate forum that is invite only as a contrast to the 'popular' forum. How do you know there isn't one already but you just dont know about it!!!!
We already know about the staff one. ;o
On January 04 2012 05:09 Legend` wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 18:16 Torte de Lini wrote:
A lot of pros used to post.
Then the site grew and they got tore apart sometimes on the forums.
That's the unfortunate of iNcontrol's predicament D: That's what happens when the site grows. A lot of pros post well thought out posts which make sense only to get bashed by people whom often are gold/plat/diamond or whatnot. It's just not worth the time to do that lol
To be fair Inc always got tore apart even on the WGTour forums lmao. Not everyone was a firm supporter of the USA-B warship.
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On January 04 2012 04:49 IPA wrote:
There should be a blues/pros only board that everyone has access to but only for reading. I would read that every day instead of the random low masters guy talking in an authoritative manner about god knows what.
I would like this as well!
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On January 04 2012 04:50 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 03:59 sjh wrote:
I think TL needs a separate forum that is invite only as a contrast to the 'popular' forum. How do you know there isn't one already but you just dont know about it!!!!
hes not talking about the moderator forum, hes talking about a pro player forum, this one would be visible to layposters
the men in red forum does exist I BELIIIEEEVVVEEE!!!!!
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People think TL is a bad community? Try checking out MOBA forums, where EVERYONE is a dick or a troll.
TL is an amazing community, and full of very nice people for the most part. IdrA's post reminds me of when Jaedong quit twitter (then later came back) because some asshole said he should stop watching so much soccer and focus on SC2. Just ignore the assholes/trolls and if you can't do that, just refrain from posting strategy related issues (seems what most pros in this thread are harping on).
Seriously, I can't stress enough how cool/amazing Team Liquid (community) is. You guys who bash this place really need to try going to other forums.
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And yet, as bad as the GosuGamers fora are (and they're bad. Our comments sections really, really suck.) I've seen as many posts from pro players addressing issues of substance as I have on TL.
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On January 03 2012 06:06 Odal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 05:45 ReignFayth wrote:
from what I've gathered most think people here are a bit too stupid to even bother also heard a lot of complaints about the very strict mods
it's too serious in here Mods aren't strict enough. It's kinda weird they have that reputation tbh.
Yes, and to be honest this is quite mind boggling. If anything, I find the TL mods relatively lenient. I guess people who complain about the alleged strictness of the TL mods don't have a lot of experience with discussion boards. Saying that TL is too serious might make sense if the only forums you know are Bnet and TL.
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Not all pro posts are good I mean just look at Naniwa and Idra, they are biggest trolls
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On January 04 2012 06:19 dekarp wrote:
People think TL is a bad community? Try checking out MOBA forums, where EVERYONE is a dick or a troll.
TL is an amazing community, and full of very nice people for the most part. IdrA's post reminds me of when Jaedong quit twitter (then later came back) because some asshole said he should stop watching so much soccer and focus on SC2. Just ignore the assholes/trolls and if you can't do that, just refrain from posting strategy related issues (seems what most pros in this thread are harping on).
Seriously, I can't stress enough how cool/amazing Team Liquid (community) is. You guys who bash this place really need to try going to other forums.
Just because other things are worse doesn't mean we aren't allowed to discuss improving what we have.
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On January 04 2012 07:42 Odal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 06:19 dekarp wrote:
People think TL is a bad community? Try checking out MOBA forums, where EVERYONE is a dick or a troll.
TL is an amazing community, and full of very nice people for the most part. IdrA's post reminds me of when Jaedong quit twitter (then later came back) because some asshole said he should stop watching so much soccer and focus on SC2. Just ignore the assholes/trolls and if you can't do that, just refrain from posting strategy related issues (seems what most pros in this thread are harping on).
Seriously, I can't stress enough how cool/amazing Team Liquid (community) is. You guys who bash this place really need to try going to other forums. Just because other things are worse doesn't mean we aren't allowed to discuss improving what we have.
"people are imbeciles"
Great discussion on how to improve.
People will act however they want to act... don't really see how you can improve that.
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On January 04 2012 05:54 willoc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 04:49 IPA wrote:
There should be a blues/pros only board that everyone has access to but only for reading. I would read that every day instead of the random low masters guy talking in an authoritative manner about god knows what. I would like this as well!
Me too. Life would travel at a slower pace, but we would get to see some more of the pros/community figures outside of SotG and interviews.
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On January 04 2012 08:07 dekarp wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 07:42 Odal wrote:On January 04 2012 06:19 dekarp wrote:
People think TL is a bad community? Try checking out MOBA forums, where EVERYONE is a dick or a troll.
TL is an amazing community, and full of very nice people for the most part. IdrA's post reminds me of when Jaedong quit twitter (then later came back) because some asshole said he should stop watching so much soccer and focus on SC2. Just ignore the assholes/trolls and if you can't do that, just refrain from posting strategy related issues (seems what most pros in this thread are harping on).
Seriously, I can't stress enough how cool/amazing Team Liquid (community) is. You guys who bash this place really need to try going to other forums. Just because other things are worse doesn't mean we aren't allowed to discuss improving what we have. "people are imbeciles" Great discussion on how to improve. People will act however they want to act... don't really see how you can improve that.
Is "people are imbeciles" the only point you gleamed from all 12 pages of this thread or are you just trolling?
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United States8476 Posts
The strategy section can very easily disillusion you.
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Everyone could just do what I do, search the the user profile of a pro player and go and look if he/she has posted any thing related to strategy. Maybe a bit lurky but I would rather spend 15 minutes looking for IdrA or Ret's opinion then some scrub who thinks marauders counter mutas T_T
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When you watch a lot of Pros streaming they always seem to have Teamliquid up in the background behind their stream/chat/whatever. So if they are so active in lurking TL that they do it during their peak money making time, they probably are on there during their non-streaming time even more.
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On January 04 2012 08:10 SeaSwift wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 05:54 willoc wrote:On January 04 2012 04:49 IPA wrote:
There should be a blues/pros only board that everyone has access to but only for reading. I would read that every day instead of the random low masters guy talking in an authoritative manner about god knows what. I would like this as well! Me too. Life would travel at a slower pace, but we would get to see some more of the pros/community figures outside of SotG and interviews.
What incentive would IdrA have to respond to Jinro about an issue he is having in TvZ? I just don't know why any of the top pros would want to use the forum. If they want to collaborate they're all on strong teams and have 50 real ID pros already on their BNet dashboard that they could just as easily hash out an idea or strategy with. There is zero reason for any of them to post on a forum about strategy.
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Would be cool with links to forums where a pro, wrote something funny.
I think nearly every pro searches tl/other forums, between qeueing for matches.
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they don't post because there's too many people who are just incredibly disrespectful. when SC2 went to beta, pros posted here for a while but went away real fast. after a few months following release most stopped posting. they started posting a lot on reddit at that point but then /r/sc had the same thing happen to them and many avoid that as well. it's just dumb to be criticized by people who usually don't know what they're talking about and who focus on you even more than the average person because you're a pro
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On January 07 2012 04:09 Tenks wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 08:10 SeaSwift wrote:On January 04 2012 05:54 willoc wrote:On January 04 2012 04:49 IPA wrote:
There should be a blues/pros only board that everyone has access to but only for reading. I would read that every day instead of the random low masters guy talking in an authoritative manner about god knows what. I would like this as well! Me too. Life would travel at a slower pace, but we would get to see some more of the pros/community figures outside of SotG and interviews. What incentive would IdrA have to respond to Jinro about an issue he is having in TvZ? I just don't know why any of the top pros would want to use the forum. If they want to collaborate they're all on strong teams and have 50 real ID pros already on their BNet dashboard that they could just as easily hash out an idea or strategy with. There is zero reason for any of them to post on a forum about strategy.
this.. no one wants to make their thoughts on strategy public
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On January 04 2012 04:49 IPA wrote:
There should be a blues/pros only board that everyone has access to but only for reading. I would read that every day instead of the random low masters guy talking in an authoritative manner about god knows what.
Hey, aren't you the guy who made/dramatically improved BW chart?
Always wanted to thank you for the work.
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On January 07 2012 06:38 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 04:09 Tenks wrote:On January 04 2012 08:10 SeaSwift wrote:On January 04 2012 05:54 willoc wrote:On January 04 2012 04:49 IPA wrote:
There should be a blues/pros only board that everyone has access to but only for reading. I would read that every day instead of the random low masters guy talking in an authoritative manner about god knows what. I would like this as well! Me too. Life would travel at a slower pace, but we would get to see some more of the pros/community figures outside of SotG and interviews. What incentive would IdrA have to respond to Jinro about an issue he is having in TvZ? I just don't know why any of the top pros would want to use the forum. If they want to collaborate they're all on strong teams and have 50 real ID pros already on their BNet dashboard that they could just as easily hash out an idea or strategy with. There is zero reason for any of them to post on a forum about strategy. this.. no one wants to make their thoughts on strategy public
That's what I thought, there's no point to developing something in a game as young as SC2 on a public forum where people that you regularly play in tournaments also read. As a mid-masters player who sucks balls (and is bad at Starcraft2 too :D :D :D) I want to basically post something, like a question or a statement in the expressed hope that I can be told clearly why it isn't correct. If it is correct, as a crappy player, I still need confirmation from better players because there is no other way to really tell, but either way, there's nothing in it for pros really.
I believe it just boils down to there being other avenues for pros to pursue strategy discussions that are better than the TL.net strategy forum.
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On January 02 2012 22:50 BoX wrote:
Every hobbyist forum I've ever visited suffers from the same effect.
The pros rarely ever post.
Ask any of them. From ANY hobby (RC, Paintball, Motorsports, Bodybuilding, etc), "is posting on the forums worth it?"
Nope.
halo pros constantly post in mlg forum threads, but i guess that community is still pretty small.
though it is a bit startling. at one point i made an argument about a certain player (heinz) being arguably overrated in 2009, and then heinz and one of his teammates jumped in the thread and wrote extensive (respectful) responses, lol ...
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Dustin Browder said the game was and still is tailored for the casual gamer.
All these different leagues are just ways to boost peoplea ego. ICCup was never lime that and instead fostered a competitive for a game that required significabtly more dedication to' succeed.
The ego boost allows peoplea with a pope understansinf of the game to' post thinking they know something when they font. Plus its harder to' moderate all trolls with a larger audience.
My two cents.
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Why would Starfcraft pros be different than me, or any of us?
Especially if they are passionate about their job & their game?
IMHO they even have more reasons to lurk than any of us amateurs :
- chasing Streams of competitors
- taking a quick look at the so called "New revolutionary XvX build" in the Strat section
- following popularities on Fan Clubs
- following the latest rants, controversies that often are "State of the Game" material.
- keeping tabs on tourney's announcements, results & schedules
stuff like that.
"Being up-to-date on what's happening out there in the Starcraft's world" may be also an important of part of the "professional metagame".
For a lot of them, I am pretty sure that Tl is their bowser's homepage
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Often its best to keep silent, lest you run the risk of getting sucked into a chaotic whirlpool of confusion and stupidity.
... ie.......... people can be obnoxious imbeciles.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z407/sc2channel/401249_10150453241822968_514567967_8714109_1343929630_n.jpg)
