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"Hey guys thats been rts pro gaming ofr 8 years 12 hours each day beat a college student playing sc2 ( that is really inventive and really good but nowhere near the 12 hour of training guy ), another college student with godish micro that never plays the game off 2 bases and a zerg who doesn't have the apm to spread creep"
Oky, im to much of an ass writing JUST that,
But honestly you are giving the opponents waaaaaaaaay to much credit, Sage is the only "worthy" one, Fin has been a pro gamer for long and plays sc2 for 9 months now, that nost "already", most pro have a 5 months advantage over him and 95% of them actually trained there mechanics to be even close to his bw-formed mechanics for those 5 months, the only "decent" player mechanically wise like Nestea, MVP, MC ... etc ... guess what, they have better result and most likely play better than him.
Hyping up the guy si oky, bw fanboying over him is oky, saying that he is one of the best ( and lets not forget ALREADY, it was only 9 months of sc2 and a few years of pro gaming ) is just like saying " maybe Bitbybit was actually a pro gamer...he won a gsl match, right ?"
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Speaking without having seen any of his games, I'd imagine that it's not so much the style he plays as it is his decision making; BW pros (especially those in the upper tiers, such as fOrGG) make better decisions faster than just about anyone else - so it's no surprise he's retained that talent coming into SC2.
Just reading the summary of the games against Polt, it sounds like Polt should have decided to push instead of defend during fOrGG's banshee harass. That's the kind of decision that top-tier BW pros will make both consistently and incredibly fast; it seems to me that today's SC2 players tend to lack that mental agility.
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On December 08 2011 06:35 Trololol wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 05:51 ppshchik wrote:
People don't even know what it means to be an A Teamer let alone a Starleaguer lol. I recommend people to watch Artosis' scforall vid and Nal_ra's oldboy series. Nal_Ra is someone who lost to Puma in the 1st round of OSL qualifiers after 3 months of practice, and Puma didn't even qualify to that OSL afterall. ForGG was someone who got into Round of 8 in the overall Korean Air OSL before retiring lol ( think he lost to the eventual champion Effort as well)
Not to mention that he was like Flash's righ-hand man in KTF who practiced with Flash 24/7, do you seriously think he'll drop games to the likes of Polt? lol. This is quite funny and ironic seeing as how it's common knowledge that Puma was a practice bonjwa (stupid term, really) and was a preferred practice partner of guess who..... Flash.
Artosis only said Puma was one of the most requested practice partners. and he only used Flash as an example,"If one day Flash has to play a finals, his team will call Puma to practice with him." ForGG was KTF's #2 Terran and probably practiced more games with Flash than Puma.
Also according to Artosis' post he also said Really was amongst the Top 5 best Terran in the world. As good of a commentator Artosis is, you really should take his opinions about players with a grain of salt.
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I agree with the people saying that we shouldn't judge him too much based on 3 bo3's.
But compared to the other players who were rising stars at some point(DRG, Puzzle, Curious, Sage), I think the one advantage that fOrGG has is his mentality. None of the aforementioned players had any success in BW, and they do not have too much experience playing on a big stage. I think that is the reason why they may seem godly at one point, and then fail miserably at a later point.
fOrGG should have enough experience that nerves will not become an issue. That is why I think his chances of continual domination of GSL is higher than a guy like Curious' ever were.
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On December 08 2011 07:45 BansheeDK wrote:
I agree with the people saying that we shouldn't judge him too much based on 3 bo3's.
But compared to the other players who were rising stars at some point(DRG, Puzzle, Curious, Sage), I think the one advantage that fOrGG has is his mentality. None of the aforementioned players had any success in BW, and they do not have too much experience playing on a big stage. I think that is the reason why they may seem godly at one point, and then fail miserably at a later point.
fOrGG should have enough experience that nerves will not become an issue. That is why I think his chances of continual domination of GSL is higher than a guy like Curious' ever were.
I dunno, I mean I can kinda understand that argument for someone like Moon. Who isn't very good, but unlike most pros, always plays his best at LANs so he still does fairly decent.
But ForGG is a different story. He's been a quiet ladder monster for months. Just like how MKP and DRG started out.
Will ForGG become the next MVP/Nestea/MC? I dunno. I can see him getting into high-tier Terran with MMA Bomber and MKP. But I wouldn't call him the second coming of Terran yet.
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On December 08 2011 07:45 BansheeDK wrote:
I agree with the people saying that we shouldn't judge him too much based on 3 bo3's.
But compared to the other players who were rising stars at some point(DRG, Puzzle, Curious, Sage), I think the one advantage that fOrGG has is his mentality. None of the aforementioned players had any success in BW, and they do not have too much experience playing on a big stage. I think that is the reason why they may seem godly at one point, and then fail miserably at a later point.
fOrGG should have enough experience that nerves will not become an issue. That is why I think his chances of continual domination of GSL is higher than a guy like Curious' ever were.
Nerves get a second wind in SC2 though.. new game, new fans, new expectations. When you hear the likes of Boxer and Nada say they get nervous and with the immense hype behind ForGG it wouldn't suprise me at all if he ended up getting knocked out with sub-par play because he felt the pressure.
And I do know what ironic means even if I was wrong(ish) on the actual subject.
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On December 08 2011 07:01 Aterons_toss wrote:
and a zerg who doesn't have the apm to spread creep"
I guess you haven't heard the story of how julyzerg got into a progaming team ^^
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Let's see him beat one of the top players. Sage is a code A protoss, Polt is good, and July is a one dimensional, weak zerg who only all-ins.
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On December 08 2011 06:35 Trololol wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 05:51 ppshchik wrote:
People don't even know what it means to be an A Teamer let alone a Starleaguer lol. I recommend people to watch Artosis' scforall vid and Nal_ra's oldboy series. Nal_Ra is someone who lost to Puma in the 1st round of OSL qualifiers after 3 months of practice, and Puma didn't even qualify to that OSL afterall. ForGG was someone who got into Round of 8 in the overall Korean Air OSL before retiring lol ( think he lost to the eventual champion Effort as well)
Not to mention that he was like Flash's righ-hand man in KTF who practiced with Flash 24/7, do you seriously think he'll drop games to the likes of Polt? lol. This is quite funny and ironic seeing as how it's common knowledge that Puma was a practice bonjwa (stupid term, really) and was a preferred practice partner of guess who..... Flash.
lmao. I liked Puma when he was in Estro's third fiddle terran but calling him some secret bonwja or even good at BW is just a joke.
there is a reason teams have practice partners, because all the other A-teamers are too busy practicing their own match up/strategies/maps that they can't practice with each other.
By definition being a practice partner means you're a level far below A-teamers and you're not even considered being sent out.
PS. Also lol @ "Artosis said" He has a worst record than Kim Carrier's curses.
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On December 08 2011 09:01 wassbix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 06:35 Trololol wrote:On December 08 2011 05:51 ppshchik wrote:
People don't even know what it means to be an A Teamer let alone a Starleaguer lol. I recommend people to watch Artosis' scforall vid and Nal_ra's oldboy series. Nal_Ra is someone who lost to Puma in the 1st round of OSL qualifiers after 3 months of practice, and Puma didn't even qualify to that OSL afterall. ForGG was someone who got into Round of 8 in the overall Korean Air OSL before retiring lol ( think he lost to the eventual champion Effort as well)
Not to mention that he was like Flash's righ-hand man in KTF who practiced with Flash 24/7, do you seriously think he'll drop games to the likes of Polt? lol. This is quite funny and ironic seeing as how it's common knowledge that Puma was a practice bonjwa (stupid term, really) and was a preferred practice partner of guess who..... Flash. lmao. I liked Puma when he was in Estro's third fiddle terran but calling him some secret bonwja or even good at BW is just a joke. there is a reason teams have practice partners, because all the other A-teamers are too busy practicing their own match up/strategies/maps that they can't practice with each other. By definition being a practice partner means you're a level far below A-teamers and you're not even considered being sent out. PS. Also lol @ "Artosis said" He has a worst record than Kim Carrier's curses.
Actually I believe it was Flash who said that Puma was THE best practice partner around and helped him in every MSL OSL for TvT.
That being aside because Puma isn't relevant to my opinions of Forgg. Forgg is the same 1 base cheesey player he was in broodwar he just has a license for creativity in this game because terran has so many early game options. He is mechanically sound and has pretty solid micro. He may win, but he is no god among men.
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On December 08 2011 09:08 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 09:01 wassbix wrote:On December 08 2011 06:35 Trololol wrote:On December 08 2011 05:51 ppshchik wrote:
People don't even know what it means to be an A Teamer let alone a Starleaguer lol. I recommend people to watch Artosis' scforall vid and Nal_ra's oldboy series. Nal_Ra is someone who lost to Puma in the 1st round of OSL qualifiers after 3 months of practice, and Puma didn't even qualify to that OSL afterall. ForGG was someone who got into Round of 8 in the overall Korean Air OSL before retiring lol ( think he lost to the eventual champion Effort as well)
Not to mention that he was like Flash's righ-hand man in KTF who practiced with Flash 24/7, do you seriously think he'll drop games to the likes of Polt? lol. This is quite funny and ironic seeing as how it's common knowledge that Puma was a practice bonjwa (stupid term, really) and was a preferred practice partner of guess who..... Flash. lmao. I liked Puma when he was in Estro's third fiddle terran but calling him some secret bonwja or even good at BW is just a joke. there is a reason teams have practice partners, because all the other A-teamers are too busy practicing their own match up/strategies/maps that they can't practice with each other. By definition being a practice partner means you're a level far below A-teamers and you're not even considered being sent out. PS. Also lol @ "Artosis said" He has a worst record than Kim Carrier's curses. Actually I believe it was Flash who said that Puma was THE best practice partner around and helped him in every MSL OSL for TvT. That being aside because Puma isn't relevant to my opinions of Forgg. Forgg is the same 1 base cheesey player he was in broodwar he just has a license for creativity in this game because terran has so many early game options. He is mechanically sound and has pretty solid micro. He may win, but he is no god among men.
Yep, you're right. Flash did praise Puma's BW skills but just said he had too much nerves to be good on the stage.
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On December 08 2011 05:02 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 01:07 [N3O]r3d33m3r wrote:On December 07 2011 16:26 mrtomjones wrote:On December 07 2011 12:24 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Also, guys, I don't want to sound nitpicky, but his macro was slipping in some of the games I saw. Not terribly, but he was definitely focusing on the micro to the exclusion of the macro (since he won, was obviously the right choice). He floated minerals a bit in both games I saw. Still, he's friggin awesome though. Yah he had 1-2k minerals when he was playing against Polt. I think this hype is along the lines of Stephano but Forgg has people from BW wanting him to beat everyone nonBW who will hype him like crazy. Forgg has showed some cool builds but the things he has done so far are things that other top players can do too. He has also yet to beat one of the people who have been on fire lately from any race.(OZ,MC, Hero, Nestea,Leenock, MVP, Jikaji, MMA) From what I have seen of Forgg he is better than some code S players and looked worse than some. The blind BW people saying he is better than MVP apparently missed his games in the weekly. Forgg is NOT better than MVP at this point. Hype is ridiculous on these forums. give the guy a break, he is playing seriously (team house etc.) for 2 months now, he's playing the game itself or 10months now. i believe in mid 2012 he can show his true skill and i'm pretty sure he will be better than mvp Give him a break? I'm not the one of those people saying he is already the best player in sc2. Many people have already been saying that. The opposite viewpoint needs to be voiced or the crazies will think that they are the only ones with opinions.
...nobodys saying hes the best SC2 player out there. hell, MVP and nestea aren't even considered the two absolute without a doubt best anymore. everybody's just saying that ForGG shows a helluva lot of potential and could get to the top of the SC2 world with enough training and practice
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On December 08 2011 11:47 Uhh Negative wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 09:08 NoobSkills wrote:On December 08 2011 09:01 wassbix wrote:On December 08 2011 06:35 Trololol wrote:On December 08 2011 05:51 ppshchik wrote:
People don't even know what it means to be an A Teamer let alone a Starleaguer lol. I recommend people to watch Artosis' scforall vid and Nal_ra's oldboy series. Nal_Ra is someone who lost to Puma in the 1st round of OSL qualifiers after 3 months of practice, and Puma didn't even qualify to that OSL afterall. ForGG was someone who got into Round of 8 in the overall Korean Air OSL before retiring lol ( think he lost to the eventual champion Effort as well)
Not to mention that he was like Flash's righ-hand man in KTF who practiced with Flash 24/7, do you seriously think he'll drop games to the likes of Polt? lol. This is quite funny and ironic seeing as how it's common knowledge that Puma was a practice bonjwa (stupid term, really) and was a preferred practice partner of guess who..... Flash. lmao. I liked Puma when he was in Estro's third fiddle terran but calling him some secret bonwja or even good at BW is just a joke. there is a reason teams have practice partners, because all the other A-teamers are too busy practicing their own match up/strategies/maps that they can't practice with each other. By definition being a practice partner means you're a level far below A-teamers and you're not even considered being sent out. PS. Also lol @ "Artosis said" He has a worst record than Kim Carrier's curses. Actually I believe it was Flash who said that Puma was THE best practice partner around and helped him in every MSL OSL for TvT. That being aside because Puma isn't relevant to my opinions of Forgg. Forgg is the same 1 base cheesey player he was in broodwar he just has a license for creativity in this game because terran has so many early game options. He is mechanically sound and has pretty solid micro. He may win, but he is no god among men. Yep, you're right. Flash did praise Puma's BW skills but just said he had too much nerves to be good on the stage.
hes looking a lot better now...<100 bpm at dreamhack when other players were at 130-140 range, so hes more relaxed under stress now i guess
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On December 08 2011 12:10 aviator116 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 11:47 Uhh Negative wrote:On December 08 2011 09:08 NoobSkills wrote:On December 08 2011 09:01 wassbix wrote:On December 08 2011 06:35 Trololol wrote:On December 08 2011 05:51 ppshchik wrote:
People don't even know what it means to be an A Teamer let alone a Starleaguer lol. I recommend people to watch Artosis' scforall vid and Nal_ra's oldboy series. Nal_Ra is someone who lost to Puma in the 1st round of OSL qualifiers after 3 months of practice, and Puma didn't even qualify to that OSL afterall. ForGG was someone who got into Round of 8 in the overall Korean Air OSL before retiring lol ( think he lost to the eventual champion Effort as well)
Not to mention that he was like Flash's righ-hand man in KTF who practiced with Flash 24/7, do you seriously think he'll drop games to the likes of Polt? lol. This is quite funny and ironic seeing as how it's common knowledge that Puma was a practice bonjwa (stupid term, really) and was a preferred practice partner of guess who..... Flash. lmao. I liked Puma when he was in Estro's third fiddle terran but calling him some secret bonwja or even good at BW is just a joke. there is a reason teams have practice partners, because all the other A-teamers are too busy practicing their own match up/strategies/maps that they can't practice with each other. By definition being a practice partner means you're a level far below A-teamers and you're not even considered being sent out. PS. Also lol @ "Artosis said" He has a worst record than Kim Carrier's curses. Actually I believe it was Flash who said that Puma was THE best practice partner around and helped him in every MSL OSL for TvT. That being aside because Puma isn't relevant to my opinions of Forgg. Forgg is the same 1 base cheesey player he was in broodwar he just has a license for creativity in this game because terran has so many early game options. He is mechanically sound and has pretty solid micro. He may win, but he is no god among men. Yep, you're right. Flash did praise Puma's BW skills but just said he had too much nerves to be good on the stage. hes looking a lot better now...<100 bpm at dreamhack when other players were at 130-140 range, so hes more relaxed under stress now i guess
Don't think you can refer to the heart rate. Its better to judge how much the heart rate changed then what the heart rate is since everybody has a different heartbeat in casual conditions.
And Puma may still be not playing to his best in tournament settings. He may still be nervous but perhaps the level of play in SC2 is not high enough yet that he dosen't need his best to beat these guys.
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On December 08 2011 11:47 Uhh Negative wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 09:08 NoobSkills wrote:On December 08 2011 09:01 wassbix wrote:On December 08 2011 06:35 Trololol wrote:On December 08 2011 05:51 ppshchik wrote:
People don't even know what it means to be an A Teamer let alone a Starleaguer lol. I recommend people to watch Artosis' scforall vid and Nal_ra's oldboy series. Nal_Ra is someone who lost to Puma in the 1st round of OSL qualifiers after 3 months of practice, and Puma didn't even qualify to that OSL afterall. ForGG was someone who got into Round of 8 in the overall Korean Air OSL before retiring lol ( think he lost to the eventual champion Effort as well)
Not to mention that he was like Flash's righ-hand man in KTF who practiced with Flash 24/7, do you seriously think he'll drop games to the likes of Polt? lol. This is quite funny and ironic seeing as how it's common knowledge that Puma was a practice bonjwa (stupid term, really) and was a preferred practice partner of guess who..... Flash. lmao. I liked Puma when he was in Estro's third fiddle terran but calling him some secret bonwja or even good at BW is just a joke. there is a reason teams have practice partners, because all the other A-teamers are too busy practicing their own match up/strategies/maps that they can't practice with each other. By definition being a practice partner means you're a level far below A-teamers and you're not even considered being sent out. PS. Also lol @ "Artosis said" He has a worst record than Kim Carrier's curses. Actually I believe it was Flash who said that Puma was THE best practice partner around and helped him in every MSL OSL for TvT. That being aside because Puma isn't relevant to my opinions of Forgg. Forgg is the same 1 base cheesey player he was in broodwar he just has a license for creativity in this game because terran has so many early game options. He is mechanically sound and has pretty solid micro. He may win, but he is no god among men. Yep, you're right. Flash did praise Puma's BW skills but just said he had too much nerves to be good on the stage.
I've followed Flash for years and never has he mentioned Puma. (to my knowledge)
I'm pretty sure I can look through all his interviews and his name won't be there.
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On December 08 2011 08:37 justjuice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 07:01 Aterons_toss wrote:
and a zerg who doesn't have the apm to spread creep" I guess you haven't heard the story of how julyzerg got into a progaming team ^^
I'm very sorry for the off-topic, but what's the story again? I don't remember it clearly.
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United States789 Posts
On December 08 2011 07:08 ppshchik wrote:
Also according to Artosis' post he also said Really was amongst the Top 5 best Terran in the world. As good of a commentator Artosis is, you really should take his opinions about players with a grain of salt.
No.
Top 2.
LOL
User was warned for this post
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I have never been amazed at the quality of Terran play until recently. The latest GSL finals comes to mind, jjakji really showed us how Terran should be played.
But after seeing Fin (ForGG), this guy is a force of his own. My jaw has literally dropped after seeing him play recently. His technical builds and how they run so smoothly are just amazing.
No offense to July, but ForGG made it seem like July plays in wood league.
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LOL at people who are wondering about Forgg's "late game". Seriously, just because no one can survive his mid game doesn't mean he doesn't have a late game, especially if you've followed him in BW. He has not in any game gone all-in. All his builds are capable of transitioning out of early-to-mid game stages. The thing is his opponents simply weren't good enough to survive into the late game.
You can see what makes ex-A-level BW pros so amazing. He could attack, harass, and macro at the same time without dropping a beat in any of those areas.
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EPT
