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On December 08 2011 07:01 Aterons_toss wrote:
"Hey guys thats been rts pro gaming ofr 8 years 12 hours each day beat a college student playing sc2 ( that is really inventive and really good but nowhere near the 12 hour of training guy ), another college student with godish micro that never plays the game off 2 bases and a zerg who doesn't have the apm to spread creep"
Oky, im to much of an ass writing JUST that,
But honestly you are giving the opponents waaaaaaaaay to much credit, Sage is the only "worthy" one, Fin has been a pro gamer for long and plays sc2 for 9 months now, that nost "already", most pro have a 5 months advantage over him and 95% of them actually trained there mechanics to be even close to his bw-formed mechanics for those 5 months, the only "decent" player mechanically wise like Nestea, MVP, MC ... etc ... guess what, they have better result and most likely play better than him.
Hyping up the guy si oky, bw fanboying over him is oky, saying that he is one of the best ( and lets not forget ALREADY, it was only 9 months of sc2 and a few years of pro gaming ) is just like saying " maybe Bitbybit was actually a pro gamer...he won a gsl match, right ?"
So... I guess Sage is somehow better than Polt, even though Polt has won like 20x more prize money than Sage?
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On December 08 2011 12:30 dmnum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 08:37 justjuice wrote:On December 08 2011 07:01 Aterons_toss wrote:
and a zerg who doesn't have the apm to spread creep" I guess you haven't heard the story of how julyzerg got into a progaming team ^^ I'm very sorry for the off-topic, but what's the story again? I don't remember it clearly.
I wasn't around the scene for it, but basically he played as an amateur in a fun match against a pro. He lost, but he was playing at like 400 apm. They figured, hell, if he knew what to do, he could be amazing and signed him.
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On December 08 2011 07:01 Aterons_toss wrote:
"Hey guys thats been rts pro gaming ofr 8 years 12 hours each day beat a college student playing sc2 ( that is really inventive and really good but nowhere near the 12 hour of training guy ), another college student with godish micro that never plays the game off 2 bases and a zerg who doesn't have the apm to spread creep"
Oky, im to much of an ass writing JUST that,
But honestly you are giving the opponents waaaaaaaaay to much credit, Sage is the only "worthy" one, Fin has been a pro gamer for long and plays sc2 for 9 months now, that nost "already", most pro have a 5 months advantage over him and 95% of them actually trained there mechanics to be even close to his bw-formed mechanics for those 5 months, the only "decent" player mechanically wise like Nestea, MVP, MC ... etc ... guess what, they have better result and most likely play better than him.
Hyping up the guy si oky, bw fanboying over him is oky, saying that he is one of the best ( and lets not forget ALREADY, it was only 9 months of sc2 and a few years of pro gaming ) is just like saying " maybe Bitbybit was actually a pro gamer...he won a gsl match, right ?"
Hope you are trolling...
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I wonder if a player like Flash could play both games at a competitive level. I think he would still need to spend more time on BW practice, but he's already so much better than everyone else in BW, cutting down practice-time shouldn't affect him like it would someone else. He could be the Bo Jackson of e-Sports.
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On December 08 2011 06:35 Trololol wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 05:51 ppshchik wrote:
People don't even know what it means to be an A Teamer let alone a Starleaguer lol. I recommend people to watch Artosis' scforall vid and Nal_ra's oldboy series. Nal_Ra is someone who lost to Puma in the 1st round of OSL qualifiers after 3 months of practice, and Puma didn't even qualify to that OSL afterall. ForGG was someone who got into Round of 8 in the overall Korean Air OSL before retiring lol ( think he lost to the eventual champion Effort as well)
Not to mention that he was like Flash's righ-hand man in KTF who practiced with Flash 24/7, do you seriously think he'll drop games to the likes of Polt? lol. This is quite funny and ironic seeing as how it's common knowledge that Puma was a practice bonjwa (stupid term, really) and was a preferred practice partner of guess who..... Flash.
I'm quite certain that this was incorrect and was misstated by Artosis, at least what I've been told.
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On December 08 2011 13:15 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 06:35 Trololol wrote:On December 08 2011 05:51 ppshchik wrote:
People don't even know what it means to be an A Teamer let alone a Starleaguer lol. I recommend people to watch Artosis' scforall vid and Nal_ra's oldboy series. Nal_Ra is someone who lost to Puma in the 1st round of OSL qualifiers after 3 months of practice, and Puma didn't even qualify to that OSL afterall. ForGG was someone who got into Round of 8 in the overall Korean Air OSL before retiring lol ( think he lost to the eventual champion Effort as well)
Not to mention that he was like Flash's righ-hand man in KTF who practiced with Flash 24/7, do you seriously think he'll drop games to the likes of Polt? lol. This is quite funny and ironic seeing as how it's common knowledge that Puma was a practice bonjwa (stupid term, really) and was a preferred practice partner of guess who..... Flash. I'm quite certain that this was incorrect and was misstated by Artosis, at least what I've been told.
Yes it is incorrect, Puma was just mentioned in an OSL/msl interview thanking a list of practice partners, and if you follow BW interviews at all, it's the most standard thing ever to list a bunch of B-teamers and practice partners after winning.
It somehow blew up into Flash secretly bows down to greatness of Puma after Artosis mis-quoted Flash in some dumb show.
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Family definitely has the potential to be the best player in the world he won the Star league for crying out loud MVP never even got to the semis he'll probably win at least a GSL by the time 2012 ends.
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On December 08 2011 09:08 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 09:01 wassbix wrote:On December 08 2011 06:35 Trololol wrote:On December 08 2011 05:51 ppshchik wrote:
People don't even know what it means to be an A Teamer let alone a Starleaguer lol. I recommend people to watch Artosis' scforall vid and Nal_ra's oldboy series. Nal_Ra is someone who lost to Puma in the 1st round of OSL qualifiers after 3 months of practice, and Puma didn't even qualify to that OSL afterall. ForGG was someone who got into Round of 8 in the overall Korean Air OSL before retiring lol ( think he lost to the eventual champion Effort as well)
Not to mention that he was like Flash's righ-hand man in KTF who practiced with Flash 24/7, do you seriously think he'll drop games to the likes of Polt? lol. This is quite funny and ironic seeing as how it's common knowledge that Puma was a practice bonjwa (stupid term, really) and was a preferred practice partner of guess who..... Flash. lmao. I liked Puma when he was in Estro's third fiddle terran but calling him some secret bonwja or even good at BW is just a joke. there is a reason teams have practice partners, because all the other A-teamers are too busy practicing their own match up/strategies/maps that they can't practice with each other. By definition being a practice partner means you're a level far below A-teamers and you're not even considered being sent out. PS. Also lol @ "Artosis said" He has a worst record than Kim Carrier's curses. Actually I believe it was Flash who said that Puma was THE best practice partner around and helped him in every MSL OSL for TvT.That being aside because Puma isn't relevant to my opinions of Forgg. Forgg is the same 1 base cheesey player he was in broodwar he just has a license for creativity in this game because terran has so many early game options. He is mechanically sound and has pretty solid micro. He may win, but he is no god among men.
thats false. he never said that.
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On December 08 2011 05:50 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 16:26 mrtomjones wrote:
From what I have seen of Forgg he is better than some code S players and looked worse than some. The blind BW people saying he is better than MVP apparently missed his games in the weekly.
Forgg is NOT better than MVP at this point. Hype is ridiculous on these forums. From what I see, you are butthurt that ForGG, being an ex pro BW player, made his opponents look like bronze level noobies.
lol or i just find it ammusing/dumb that anyone can try to claim he is better than MVP before he has even played 4 GSL matches with none against the current top players
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On December 07 2011 09:41 Talin wrote:
I don't understand the comparison you're making, are you implying that DRG isn't a top level player?
As a matter of fact, it turns out that everyone who predicted DRG will be a monster not only during the team leagues, but even before that, based on his stream alone - was actually right.
Just like everyone who predicted Bomber and MMA will be top players based on the play they showed very early in their career was right.
Hell, people didn't even want to see or believe that MVP was a top player until he actually won GSL for the first time, even though it was freaking obvious to everyone who watched him play in his first season.
Every single game is relevant, especially televized games. If you don't want to watch the games and the manner in which someone plays doesn't matter to you, then why are you participating in a discussion about someone's skill level in the first place?
No truer words have been spoken about the criticism of Forgg's play.
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On December 08 2011 14:51 OopsOopsBaby wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 09:08 NoobSkills wrote:On December 08 2011 09:01 wassbix wrote:On December 08 2011 06:35 Trololol wrote:On December 08 2011 05:51 ppshchik wrote:
People don't even know what it means to be an A Teamer let alone a Starleaguer lol. I recommend people to watch Artosis' scforall vid and Nal_ra's oldboy series. Nal_Ra is someone who lost to Puma in the 1st round of OSL qualifiers after 3 months of practice, and Puma didn't even qualify to that OSL afterall. ForGG was someone who got into Round of 8 in the overall Korean Air OSL before retiring lol ( think he lost to the eventual champion Effort as well)
Not to mention that he was like Flash's righ-hand man in KTF who practiced with Flash 24/7, do you seriously think he'll drop games to the likes of Polt? lol. This is quite funny and ironic seeing as how it's common knowledge that Puma was a practice bonjwa (stupid term, really) and was a preferred practice partner of guess who..... Flash. lmao. I liked Puma when he was in Estro's third fiddle terran but calling him some secret bonwja or even good at BW is just a joke. there is a reason teams have practice partners, because all the other A-teamers are too busy practicing their own match up/strategies/maps that they can't practice with each other. By definition being a practice partner means you're a level far below A-teamers and you're not even considered being sent out. PS. Also lol @ "Artosis said" He has a worst record than Kim Carrier's curses. Actually I believe it was Flash who said that Puma was THE best practice partner around and helped him in every MSL OSL for TvT.That being aside because Puma isn't relevant to my opinions of Forgg. Forgg is the same 1 base cheesey player he was in broodwar he just has a license for creativity in this game because terran has so many early game options. He is mechanically sound and has pretty solid micro. He may win, but he is no god among men. thats false. he never said that.
Artosis saying that and hyping up Puma is like, the most exaggerated hype machine in existence. It's like playing telephone where first it's practiced with puma, then favored practice partner, then secretly puma takes a bunch of games off flash in practice, then flash steals builds from puma and says puma would be 6 time OSL/MSL champion without nerve issues
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It's going to be interesting to see how these "top tier" bw pros who are capable of perfect micro with perfect macro behind it are going to change the balance/metagame. Alot of things, mainly harass and multitask based, are sort of balanced by the fact that they can't be done mis-macroing or failing at something else. I imagine that as units like banshees get fully utilised, they are going to start becoming slightly ridiculous. I don't see how a bio player tvt can defend 4 banshees all microing from different directions with solid macro behind it.
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On December 08 2011 14:51 OopsOopsBaby wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 09:08 NoobSkills wrote:On December 08 2011 09:01 wassbix wrote:On December 08 2011 06:35 Trololol wrote:On December 08 2011 05:51 ppshchik wrote:
People don't even know what it means to be an A Teamer let alone a Starleaguer lol. I recommend people to watch Artosis' scforall vid and Nal_ra's oldboy series. Nal_Ra is someone who lost to Puma in the 1st round of OSL qualifiers after 3 months of practice, and Puma didn't even qualify to that OSL afterall. ForGG was someone who got into Round of 8 in the overall Korean Air OSL before retiring lol ( think he lost to the eventual champion Effort as well)
Not to mention that he was like Flash's righ-hand man in KTF who practiced with Flash 24/7, do you seriously think he'll drop games to the likes of Polt? lol. This is quite funny and ironic seeing as how it's common knowledge that Puma was a practice bonjwa (stupid term, really) and was a preferred practice partner of guess who..... Flash. lmao. I liked Puma when he was in Estro's third fiddle terran but calling him some secret bonwja or even good at BW is just a joke. there is a reason teams have practice partners, because all the other A-teamers are too busy practicing their own match up/strategies/maps that they can't practice with each other. By definition being a practice partner means you're a level far below A-teamers and you're not even considered being sent out. PS. Also lol @ "Artosis said" He has a worst record than Kim Carrier's curses. Actually I believe it was Flash who said that Puma was THE best practice partner around and helped him in every MSL OSL for TvT.That being aside because Puma isn't relevant to my opinions of Forgg. Forgg is the same 1 base cheesey player he was in broodwar he just has a license for creativity in this game because terran has so many early game options. He is mechanically sound and has pretty solid micro. He may win, but he is no god among men. thats false. he never said that.
Sounds like something Artosis would say not Flash haha.
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On December 08 2011 14:30 wassbix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 13:15 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On December 08 2011 06:35 Trololol wrote:On December 08 2011 05:51 ppshchik wrote:
People don't even know what it means to be an A Teamer let alone a Starleaguer lol. I recommend people to watch Artosis' scforall vid and Nal_ra's oldboy series. Nal_Ra is someone who lost to Puma in the 1st round of OSL qualifiers after 3 months of practice, and Puma didn't even qualify to that OSL afterall. ForGG was someone who got into Round of 8 in the overall Korean Air OSL before retiring lol ( think he lost to the eventual champion Effort as well)
Not to mention that he was like Flash's righ-hand man in KTF who practiced with Flash 24/7, do you seriously think he'll drop games to the likes of Polt? lol. This is quite funny and ironic seeing as how it's common knowledge that Puma was a practice bonjwa (stupid term, really) and was a preferred practice partner of guess who..... Flash. I'm quite certain that this was incorrect and was misstated by Artosis, at least what I've been told. Yes it is incorrect, Puma was just mentioned in an OSL/msl interview thanking a list of practice partners, and if you follow BW interviews at all, it's the most standard thing ever to list a bunch of B-teamers and practice partners after winning. It somehow blew up into Flash secretly bows down to greatness of Puma after Artosis mis-quoted Flash in some dumb show.
I'm not sure it was mis-quoting as much as Artosis usual spin-oh-rama routine. It should be quite obvious to anyone by now that when Artosis determine a player to be uber-gosu it should be taken with a grain of salt.
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On December 08 2011 09:08 NoobSkills wrote:
Actually I believe it was Flash who said that Puma was THE best practice partner around and helped him in every MSL OSL for TvT.
That being aside because Puma isn't relevant to my opinions of Forgg. Forgg is the same 1 base cheesey player he was in broodwar he just has a license for creativity in this game because terran has so many early game options. He is mechanically sound and has pretty solid micro. He may win, but he is no god among men.
Wait.. what?
I thought ForGG was known as the mass-macro/1-a suicide player in BW?
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I think the his Micro is decent but there is better around.
He missmicroed the Helions in his base vs July game2
He messed up the crisis management vs the Baneling Bust.
Actually July lost the games more than ForGG won them. How can you lose lik 5 Drones to a Bunker Rush?? zergs nowadays simply HAVE to be able to deal with it for the cost of mb 1 Drone...
On December 08 2011 18:13 Supamang wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 09:08 NoobSkills wrote:
Actually I believe it was Flash who said that Puma was THE best practice partner around and helped him in every MSL OSL for TvT.
That being aside because Puma isn't relevant to my opinions of Forgg. Forgg is the same 1 base cheesey player he was in broodwar he just has a license for creativity in this game because terran has so many early game options. He is mechanically sound and has pretty solid micro. He may win, but he is no god among men. Wait.. what? I thought ForGG was known as the mass-macro/1-a suicide player in BW?
You mean 1a 2a 3a 4a 5a 6a 7a?
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so many people in this thread talkin bout BW progamers/ex-BW progamers like they know shit when they really don't x]]
july as a "zerg with no apm" was particularly funny to me. esp. when (unless im mistaken) july holds the record for highest apm ever recorded in a televised game lololol.
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I will be impressed if he keeps on winning, beating a player in a slump and one thats up and down isnt fantastic. Hopefully when Fin wins Code S I will be proved wrong, but till that happens, im just as impressed with his transition as I was MVP. Hopefully any future ex BW players will actually play Protoss and not Zerg or Terran :D
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On December 08 2011 18:13 Supamang wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 09:08 NoobSkills wrote:
Actually I believe it was Flash who said that Puma was THE best practice partner around and helped him in every MSL OSL for TvT.
That being aside because Puma isn't relevant to my opinions of Forgg. Forgg is the same 1 base cheesey player he was in broodwar he just has a license for creativity in this game because terran has so many early game options. He is mechanically sound and has pretty solid micro. He may win, but he is no god among men. Wait.. what? I thought ForGG was known as the mass-macro/1-a suicide player in BW?
well, I guess you're both wrong... ^^'
ForGG was known for his timing-attacks in BW, therefore his nickname "the timing-attacker". Timing-attacks on the level in which BW was played during that time he was quite successful, are a lot different from what SC2-players consider timing-attacks though. In SC2, pretty much any all-in is called a timing-attack, but in BW, you couldn't just go for a blind timing: The amount of preparation ForGG put in his timings were incredible - he studied his opponents playstyle, prepared solid follow-ups, alternative strategies and based his timings around scouting and knowing his opponents playstyle. If you compare ForGG with ppl doing 8-gateway-timings or 1/1/1-builds, you're obviously not getting it.
I don't know how well prepared ForGG's timings are in SC2, but with him playing Terran, being rather new to the pro-scene of SC2 and his natural talent for good timings, it absolutely makes sense that he tries to apply early pressure to his opponents.
And the fact ppl think his lategame isn't good makes me laugh: He was a top-BW-pro as Terran and therefore has the mechanics to play like 3 races simultaniously in SC2 and also a very solid understanding of moving around with a slow, tank-based army, really important for lategame TvT and also TvZ). With his solid trainings-partners and his mechanics, he inherently is always better in the lategame than most of his opponents and the reasons why he plays so aggressive have nothing to do with him not being able to play lategame.
basically any BW-pro that takes SC2 seriously will be very good at SC2, the only thing I don't agree with is that they will necessarily be better than everyone else, just cuz of the lower skill-cap for mechanics in SC2. But they will surely be good enough not to be consider 1-base-cheesers by some random noob with an incredibly accurate nickname...
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EPT
