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Why Fin looks like one of the best in sc2 already - Page 23

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 21 22 23 24 25 43 Next All
rhs408
Profile Joined January 2011
United States904 Posts
December 09 2011 03:28 GMT
#441
Watching his stream right now too, such early game ownage. Fun to watch.
Young_Gun
Profile Joined November 2011
United Kingdom18 Posts
December 09 2011 03:31 GMT
#442
It looks like the SC2 scene will see massive changes once the BW players decide to switch!
Mora
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Canada5235 Posts
December 09 2011 03:32 GMT
#443
On December 08 2011 19:22 shucklesors wrote:
Glad to see fOrGG doing so well after moving to SC2, loved that guy just because he was ever from OZ.
Funny to see you praising his multitasking and ability to 'keep his resources below 400'..
You see in BW, that doesn't ever come up as a topic of discussion, like you would never hear a progamer say to another progamer, screw that, practice partners saying to each other "Hey you need to macro/multitask better at the late gaem etc.", it's way too basic a requirement to mention. They talk about very very MINUTE details and subtle micro that decided the game's outcome, the timings that were late and so on so forth.
So for a BW A-teamer at time of transferring, you shouldn't expect less. Hope to see him a GSL champion soon.


people talk about flash's and bisu's multitasking all the time.

whatareyoutalkingabout
Happiness only real when shared.
HardMacro
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Canada361 Posts
December 09 2011 03:35 GMT
#444
Ok seriously what the fuck. Does this guy ever lose? He curbs stomps even in TvT; gets hard countered opening banshees where his opponent opened with a viking, only to push into the other terran's natural 3 minutes later with marine/tank and sealing the game right there... two games in a row. He just has more shit than his opponent despite his sub-optimal openings.

Not a single zerg survives his hellions, let alone the banshee follow-up. It's the small shit he does like baiting the queen towards the bunker, then pulling marines out as the bunker died and micro'ing the shit out of them, getting additional drone kills and damaging a queen to within 1-2 hits, while also during these ~15 seconds macro'ed perfectly, that gains him both a small unit and economic advantage every time.

I think these tiny advantages compounds into a much bigger advantage, especially in the early game, which would explain why his opponents look like amateurs playing him - his timings hit a few seconds earlier and a bit harder, eventually compounding into half a minute earlier and 2x harder.

Which makes me realize an important point regarding the "mechanical" requirement of playing SC2. Sure, to play relatively well, SC2 is easier mechanically as my ~250/150 (sc2gears) APM/EAPM and C+ BW multitasking is more or less enough to have 90+ % perfect macro in the early/mid game. But having 400/250 APM/EAPM is going to turn that percentage into 95+ %, and it's clear from these games that the 5% matters a LOT - it's the difference between rolling over and dying and defending JUST in time. So there isn't even a soft skill-ceiling cap, not even in the early-mid game, because it's just not possible to play 100% perfectly and purely by being 2% faster (effectively faster, not limited to APM) you're going to stomp a lot of faces.

Which in turns makes me remember what idra predicted, can someone quote what he said originally? The gist being:

SC is a game of limited information, which is fine in BW because the skill ceiling is so much higher, so the luck factor is relatively small compared to sc2 and the better player could almost always come back despite being countered, and there are very few hard counters to anything, so situations where player A automatically loses if he made X units instead of Y are rare. However, this is a serious problem in sc2 because blizzard is trying to make the game into chess, which would be fine if the players had perfect information, but they don't. Therefore, in the near future when the average mechanics of players improve to a point where even code B players could flawlessly execute all kinds of all-ins, the scene would be more or less fucked by volatility.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ saving this here because I use it, don't know how to make it, and don't know it's name
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
December 09 2011 03:45 GMT
#445
Idk how anyone can watch his stream and just not tell he's different. His speed, precision, and multitasking is just insane.
tuho12345
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
4482 Posts
December 09 2011 03:45 GMT
#446
Damn, this guy hasn't lost for like an hour straight, unstoppable lol.
poorcloud
Profile Joined April 2011
Singapore2748 Posts
December 09 2011 03:45 GMT
#447
Lol good job by hwang sin to at least force fOrGG into a macro game. Really nice strat as well. But fOrGG macro shined through.
MasonosaM
Profile Joined October 2010
United States74 Posts
December 09 2011 03:54 GMT
#448
oh god he totally destroyed hwansin game 2 with some crazy 111 play
X
rysecake
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2632 Posts
December 09 2011 03:54 GMT
#449
LOL owned
The Notorious Winkles
Redmark
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2129 Posts
December 09 2011 03:55 GMT
#450
On December 09 2011 12:54 MasonosaM wrote:
oh god he totally destroyed hwansin game 2 with some crazy 111 play

Read this as (T)Hwasin, went 'wat',
1Eris1
Profile Joined September 2010
United States5797 Posts
December 09 2011 03:55 GMT
#451
On December 09 2011 12:54 MasonosaM wrote:
oh god he totally destroyed hwansin game 2 with some crazy 111 play



It wasn't even like he was trying either, just a derp derp siege "look how much better at macroing I am than you" win. Like honestly, protoss players might want to look out, he could pioneer a comeback of the 1-1-1.
Known Aliases: Tyragon, Valeric ~MSL Forever, SKT is truly the Superior KT!
bkrow
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia8532 Posts
December 09 2011 03:56 GMT
#452
I am watching his stream and he really looks so good - crisp and precise with every unit in his army; his micro and macro seem pretty flawless.

oGsForGG vs oGsTOP on stream now!
In The Rear With The Gear .. *giggle* /////////// cobra-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA!!!!
dgwow
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada1024 Posts
December 09 2011 03:59 GMT
#453
On December 09 2011 12:35 HardMacro wrote:
Ok seriously what the fuck. Does this guy ever lose? He curbs stomps even in TvT; gets hard countered opening banshees where his opponent opened with a viking, only to push into the other terran's natural 3 minutes later with marine/tank and sealing the game right there... two games in a row. He just has more shit than his opponent despite his sub-optimal openings.

Not a single zerg survives his hellions, let alone the banshee follow-up. It's the small shit he does like baiting the queen towards the bunker, then pulling marines out as the bunker died and micro'ing the shit out of them, getting additional drone kills and damaging a queen to within 1-2 hits, while also during these ~15 seconds macro'ed perfectly, that gains him both a small unit and economic advantage every time.

I think these tiny advantages compounds into a much bigger advantage, especially in the early game, which would explain why his opponents look like amateurs playing him - his timings hit a few seconds earlier and a bit harder, eventually compounding into half a minute earlier and 2x harder.

Which makes me realize an important point regarding the "mechanical" requirement of playing SC2. Sure, to play relatively well, SC2 is easier mechanically as my ~250/150 (sc2gears) APM/EAPM and C+ BW multitasking is more or less enough to have 90+ % perfect macro in the early/mid game. But having 400/250 APM/EAPM is going to turn that percentage into 95+ %, and it's clear from these games that the 5% matters a LOT - it's the difference between rolling over and dying and defending JUST in time. So there isn't even a soft skill-ceiling cap, not even in the early-mid game, because it's just not possible to play 100% perfectly and purely by being 2% faster (effectively faster, not limited to APM) you're going to stomp a lot of faces.

Which in turns makes me remember what idra predicted, can someone quote what he said originally? The gist being:

SC is a game of limited information, which is fine in BW because the skill ceiling is so much higher, so the luck factor is relatively small compared to sc2 and the better player could almost always come back despite being countered, and there are very few hard counters to anything, so situations where player A automatically loses if he made X units instead of Y are rare. However, this is a serious problem in sc2 because blizzard is trying to make the game into chess, which would be fine if the players had perfect information, but they don't. Therefore, in the near future when the average mechanics of players improve to a point where even code B players could flawlessly execute all kinds of all-ins, the scene would be more or less fucked by volatility.


Blizzard is trying to make more defensive options (shredder, arc shield, etc) in the future, who knows the early game might be less volatile
Don't let those anti-cheese advocates tell you what to do. Rush to meet life head on!
zodde
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1908 Posts
December 09 2011 04:01 GMT
#454
Is it standard to stop mules from mining during the last seconds of their duration, so that they don't die with minerals in their hands?
Loki57
Profile Joined February 2011
United States292 Posts
December 09 2011 04:05 GMT
#455
The thing I notice most about this guy is that no matter what form or level of aggression he's putting on he's ALWAYS doing it in multiple places. The multitask is pretty insane
"Dedication without talent is a daydream. Talent without dedication is a nightmare."
Serpico
Profile Joined May 2010
4285 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-09 04:06:59
December 09 2011 04:06 GMT
#456
...he's just shitting on people so easily right now. If 5 or so more pros like him switch over they'll just dominate every tourney they go into. He's just on point with everything.
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
December 09 2011 04:07 GMT
#457
On December 09 2011 13:05 Loki57 wrote:
The thing I notice most about this guy is that no matter what form or level of aggression he's putting on he's ALWAYS doing it in multiple places. The multitask is pretty insane

Yeah, his aggression is on another level from other players.
poorcloud
Profile Joined April 2011
Singapore2748 Posts
December 09 2011 04:07 GMT
#458
He just destroyed ogsTop with the pretender playing in the background. attacking multiple places at all times. How sick is this guy?
rysecake
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2632 Posts
December 09 2011 04:07 GMT
#459
These mechanics are on a completely different level than anyone else in sc2. Holy shit
The Notorious Winkles
omgbbq2
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada169 Posts
December 09 2011 04:07 GMT
#460
i know its only a ladder game...but he just made top look like a diamond player
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