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On December 05 2011 21:15 storywriter wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 21:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 05 2011 20:38 Plansix wrote:On December 05 2011 20:33 k10forgotten wrote:On December 05 2011 19:52 fraktoasters wrote:
Well PvT changed pretty dramatically. I'm just glad the protoss whining has calmed down a lot because it was at a pretty ridiculous level at one point. I hope you don't mind the Terran whining that's already started. Oh it has begun. There are some amazing threads about "SC2 is like.....hard now". Now that they have to aim their EMPs and can no longer stick on MMMGV for the entire game, we might see them not fly their factory around as much. .... People calling terran easy are honestly all retarded. If you dont want us to stay on MMMGV how about you suggest a single T3 unit that doesnt get countered by feedback? Oh you cant? Ok, then STFU. Terran is a hard race. Anyway, I think TvP looks pretty OK at the moment... It's even a little bit varied. Terran is by no means an easy race to play (except for mules) but I feel that saying you can't use tier 3 units because of feedback is going a little too far. It's not like archons and HTs don't see any use because of EMP. I'm still waiting for terrans to start adding in raven+banshee in late game with their excess gas. This combination looks incredibly powerful for a number of reasons. 1. ravens allow sniping of observers. 2. ravens counter both phoenixes and stalkers with PDD. 3. terran already gets ship attack upgrades and they scale super well on banshees. Armour doesn't matter as much thanks to PDD. While I acknowledge that feedback counters both units, PDD can always be cast pre-emptively, ghosts can take out HTs and as a last resort, banshees can burn energy. In worst case scenario, the feedbacked banshee/raven has most likely prevented a storm. This will of course require immensely difficult micro from the terran but I feel like that's what SC has always been about: beating the metagame by getting better (even if it feels like you have to play better than your opponent).
you do realize that you can feedback PDDs?
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On December 05 2011 21:41 MandoRelease wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 21:28 Quotidian wrote:On December 05 2011 21:17 MandoRelease wrote:On December 05 2011 21:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 05 2011 20:38 Plansix wrote:On December 05 2011 20:33 k10forgotten wrote:On December 05 2011 19:52 fraktoasters wrote:
Well PvT changed pretty dramatically. I'm just glad the protoss whining has calmed down a lot because it was at a pretty ridiculous level at one point. I hope you don't mind the Terran whining that's already started. Oh it has begun. There are some amazing threads about "SC2 is like.....hard now". Now that they have to aim their EMPs and can no longer stick on MMMGV for the entire game, we might see them not fly their factory around as much. .... People calling terran easy are honestly all retarded. If you dont want us to stay on MMMGV how about you suggest a single T3 unit that doesnt get countered by feedback? Oh you cant? Ok, then STFU. Terran is a hard race.Anyway, I think TvP looks pretty OK at the moment... It's even a little bit varied. Well, it's not easier nor harder than Protoss or Zerg. What's your point ? Some say T is easier because some sloppy plays are not punished as heavily with T as it is with Z or P. No need to take it they say the race is overall easier. a lot of people are saying that terran is somehow easy (and implying that terran is too good across the board). Even you talking about "sloppy plays" is part of that line of thinking. Terran is punished for "sloppy play" just as hard as every other race. I don't even know see what in the game is supposed to make terran more resilient to "sloppy play." Bunkers? Play sloppily and don't pull workers in time - evaporated bunkers. Tanks? Play sloppily and get caught unsieged/in a bad position -- dead tanks/army. Etc. I was more thinking around the lines "have army out of position, repair give you enough time to be okay", "just lost a battle, PF is there to prevent ennemy's surviving units to move forward" or "lose an expansion with 30 workers, float your main CC and spam mules" or even "did not anticipate fast cloaked units, can still survive with scans". It's not that Terran's mechanics makes you okay all the time, it's just that you can buy time more easily and you can get an expansion up&running more quickly even after just losing one (when Z & P still have to actually wait for the nexus or hatchery to complete). Like I said, T gets punished, just not as heavily.
Dont you think that this balance we have now is a PROOF that what you list as being less punishment is actually REQUIRED for terrans to keep up, because they are punished in other areas more heavily?
Accept the fact that races are different and they have different weaknesses and strengths.
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On December 05 2011 21:32 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 21:21 secretary bird wrote:On December 05 2011 21:17 MandoRelease wrote:On December 05 2011 21:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 05 2011 20:38 Plansix wrote:On December 05 2011 20:33 k10forgotten wrote:On December 05 2011 19:52 fraktoasters wrote:
Well PvT changed pretty dramatically. I'm just glad the protoss whining has calmed down a lot because it was at a pretty ridiculous level at one point. I hope you don't mind the Terran whining that's already started. Oh it has begun. There are some amazing threads about "SC2 is like.....hard now". Now that they have to aim their EMPs and can no longer stick on MMMGV for the entire game, we might see them not fly their factory around as much. .... People calling terran easy are honestly all retarded. If you dont want us to stay on MMMGV how about you suggest a single T3 unit that doesnt get countered by feedback? Oh you cant? Ok, then STFU. Terran is a hard race.Anyway, I think TvP looks pretty OK at the moment... It's even a little bit varied. Well, it's not easier nor harder than Protoss or Zerg. What's your point ? Some say T is easier because some sloppy plays are not punished as heavily with T as it is with Z or P. No need to take it they say the race is overall easier. Actually terran is harder to play than Protoss thats a fact. So hard that you can be the best Terran in the world without knowing any upgrade timings past 1/1?
I knew a good percent of the mods were a part of the Protoss bias found here.. Especially with some of the ridiculously uncalled for bans and warnings towards people with opinions about Protoss that are controversial.
I don't know who you are talking about but if you think Puma, Jjakji (sp?), and MVP don't know any upgrade timings other than 1/1 you are terribly mistaken. 1/1 timings are popular because they are pretty strong, but not overpowered..
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zerg the strongest race for teh 1st time yaya........
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On December 05 2011 21:45 ThePlayer33 wrote:
zerg the strongest race for teh 1st time yaya........
yeah no nerfs or buffs and all of the sudden they are the strongest , cuz statistics say so
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nice balance imo. All the imbalance whine is retarded. Go play and improve instead of wasting ur time,
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Australia528 Posts
On December 05 2011 21:43 JoeSchmoe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 21:15 storywriter wrote:On December 05 2011 21:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 05 2011 20:38 Plansix wrote:On December 05 2011 20:33 k10forgotten wrote:On December 05 2011 19:52 fraktoasters wrote:
Well PvT changed pretty dramatically. I'm just glad the protoss whining has calmed down a lot because it was at a pretty ridiculous level at one point. I hope you don't mind the Terran whining that's already started. Oh it has begun. There are some amazing threads about "SC2 is like.....hard now". Now that they have to aim their EMPs and can no longer stick on MMMGV for the entire game, we might see them not fly their factory around as much. .... People calling terran easy are honestly all retarded. If you dont want us to stay on MMMGV how about you suggest a single T3 unit that doesnt get countered by feedback? Oh you cant? Ok, then STFU. Terran is a hard race. Anyway, I think TvP looks pretty OK at the moment... It's even a little bit varied. Terran is by no means an easy race to play (except for mules) but I feel that saying you can't use tier 3 units because of feedback is going a little too far. It's not like archons and HTs don't see any use because of EMP. I'm still waiting for terrans to start adding in raven+banshee in late game with their excess gas. This combination looks incredibly powerful for a number of reasons. 1. ravens allow sniping of observers. 2. ravens counter both phoenixes and stalkers with PDD. 3. terran already gets ship attack upgrades and they scale super well on banshees. Armour doesn't matter as much thanks to PDD. While I acknowledge that feedback counters both units, PDD can always be cast pre-emptively, ghosts can take out HTs and as a last resort, banshees can burn energy. In worst case scenario, the feedbacked banshee/raven has most likely prevented a storm. This will of course require immensely difficult micro from the terran but I feel like that's what SC has always been about: beating the metagame by getting better (even if it feels like you have to play better than your opponent). you do realize that you can feedback PDDs?
you realise i never said you couldn't? Seems my point has flown right over your head, so I'll repeat myself. Ghosts counter HTs and archons harder than any other counters in the game barring voidray vs ultralisk etc. I still use HTs and archons. After being asked by countless terrans that protoss should innvoate and involve carriers/mothership in their play, I feel justified in suggesting the use of a unit that mainly uses up gas - a resource terrans have troulbe finding use for in late game.
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Love posts like "Terran is harder and that's a FACT!" .So funny.
The charts look good. Some small polishing and we are off with a balanced game. Gj blizzard.
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thx nice to see 
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And so here comes HOTs to break it all 
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Protoss is still hurting against Zerg by quite a bit 
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Sweden33723 Posts
On December 05 2011 21:15 storywriter wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 21:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 05 2011 20:38 Plansix wrote:On December 05 2011 20:33 k10forgotten wrote:On December 05 2011 19:52 fraktoasters wrote:
Well PvT changed pretty dramatically. I'm just glad the protoss whining has calmed down a lot because it was at a pretty ridiculous level at one point. I hope you don't mind the Terran whining that's already started. Oh it has begun. There are some amazing threads about "SC2 is like.....hard now". Now that they have to aim their EMPs and can no longer stick on MMMGV for the entire game, we might see them not fly their factory around as much. .... People calling terran easy are honestly all retarded. If you dont want us to stay on MMMGV how about you suggest a single T3 unit that doesnt get countered by feedback? Oh you cant? Ok, then STFU. Terran is a hard race. Anyway, I think TvP looks pretty OK at the moment... It's even a little bit varied. Terran is by no means an easy race to play (except for mules) but I feel that saying you can't use tier 3 units because of feedback is going a little too far. It's not like archons and HTs don't see any use because of EMP. I'm still waiting for terrans to start adding in raven+banshee in late game with their excess gas. This combination looks incredibly powerful for a number of reasons. 1. ravens allow sniping of observers. 2. ravens counter both phoenixes and stalkers with PDD. 3. terran already gets ship attack upgrades and they scale super well on banshees. Armour doesn't matter as much thanks to PDD. While I acknowledge that feedback counters both units, PDD can always be cast pre-emptively, ghosts can take out HTs and as a last resort, banshees can burn energy. In worst case scenario, the feedbacked banshee/raven has most likely prevented a storm. This will of course require immensely difficult micro from the terran but I feel like that's what SC has always been about: beating the metagame by getting better (even if it feels like you have to play better than your opponent).
Feedback counters ravens
Feedback counters PDD
feedback counters banshees
Banshees suck ass vs phoenix
PDD sucks vs phoenix
Banshees vs 3-3-3 protoss? GL.
No, banshees are not the answer. Good early-mid, far too flimsy late.
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Switzerland2892 Posts
Looks like it's one of the best balance situation in a while
And in it looked quite balance in this gsl too
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On December 05 2011 21:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 20:38 Plansix wrote:On December 05 2011 20:33 k10forgotten wrote:On December 05 2011 19:52 fraktoasters wrote:
Well PvT changed pretty dramatically. I'm just glad the protoss whining has calmed down a lot because it was at a pretty ridiculous level at one point. I hope you don't mind the Terran whining that's already started. Oh it has begun. There are some amazing threads about "SC2 is like.....hard now". Now that they have to aim their EMPs and can no longer stick on MMMGV for the entire game, we might see them not fly their factory around as much. .... People calling terran easy are honestly all retarded. If you dont want us to stay on MMMGV how about you suggest a single T3 unit that doesnt get countered by feedback? Oh you cant? Ok, then STFU. Terran is a hard race. Anyway, I think TvP looks pretty OK at the moment... It's even a little bit varied.
emping/sniping ht is a doable task now, i don't see it become an impossible challange when T3 units get involved.
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On December 05 2011 21:45 ThePlayer33 wrote:
zerg the strongest race for teh 1st time yaya........
Have you been promoted? :D
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On December 05 2011 19:48 Spaceneil8 wrote:Lowest overall Terran win rate ever. Tbh, this leaves me with a little smile on my face.
Yeah. First time they're (baaaaarely) under 50% hahahaha.
Protoss actually balancing out a bit? Finally *-*
Now, if we can only hope that results level off at the 50% mark and don't continue to swap percentages! But this month does look promising!
It's also too bad that some people consider one race to have a bit of an advantage in one stage of the game, and another race to be stronger in a different stage.
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On December 05 2011 21:56 storywriter wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 21:43 JoeSchmoe wrote:On December 05 2011 21:15 storywriter wrote:On December 05 2011 21:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 05 2011 20:38 Plansix wrote:On December 05 2011 20:33 k10forgotten wrote:On December 05 2011 19:52 fraktoasters wrote:
Well PvT changed pretty dramatically. I'm just glad the protoss whining has calmed down a lot because it was at a pretty ridiculous level at one point. I hope you don't mind the Terran whining that's already started. Oh it has begun. There are some amazing threads about "SC2 is like.....hard now". Now that they have to aim their EMPs and can no longer stick on MMMGV for the entire game, we might see them not fly their factory around as much. .... People calling terran easy are honestly all retarded. If you dont want us to stay on MMMGV how about you suggest a single T3 unit that doesnt get countered by feedback? Oh you cant? Ok, then STFU. Terran is a hard race. Anyway, I think TvP looks pretty OK at the moment... It's even a little bit varied. Terran is by no means an easy race to play (except for mules) but I feel that saying you can't use tier 3 units because of feedback is going a little too far. It's not like archons and HTs don't see any use because of EMP. I'm still waiting for terrans to start adding in raven+banshee in late game with their excess gas. This combination looks incredibly powerful for a number of reasons. 1. ravens allow sniping of observers. 2. ravens counter both phoenixes and stalkers with PDD. 3. terran already gets ship attack upgrades and they scale super well on banshees. Armour doesn't matter as much thanks to PDD. While I acknowledge that feedback counters both units, PDD can always be cast pre-emptively, ghosts can take out HTs and as a last resort, banshees can burn energy. In worst case scenario, the feedbacked banshee/raven has most likely prevented a storm. This will of course require immensely difficult micro from the terran but I feel like that's what SC has always been about: beating the metagame by getting better (even if it feels like you have to play better than your opponent). you do realize that you can feedback PDDs? you realise i never said you couldn't? Seems my point has flown right over your head, so I'll repeat myself. Ghosts counter HTs and archons harder than any other counters in the game barring voidray vs ultralisk etc. I still use HTs and archons. After being asked by countless terrans that protoss should innvoate and involve carriers/mothership in their play, I feel justified in suggesting the use of a unit that mainly uses up gas - a resource terrans have troulbe finding use for in late game.
If you normally play against terrans at such a high level that they propose carrier usage, you really shouldn't be suggesting anything at all.
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On December 05 2011 22:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 19:48 Spaceneil8 wrote:Lowest overall Terran win rate ever. Tbh, this leaves me with a little smile on my face. Yeah. First time they're (baaaaarely) under 50% hahahaha. Protoss actually balancing out a bit? Finally *-* Now, if we can only hope that results level off at the 50% mark and don't continue to swap percentages! It's also too bad that some people consider one race to have a bit of an advantage in one stage of the game, and another race to be stronger in a different stage.
I don't get why people look at the OVERALL stats. Look at the specific MUs would the game be balanced if it were TvP 20% win rate and TvZ 80% the win rate would still be 50%. Theoreticly if the TvP winrate drops lower it's gonna be a problem, but if the TvZ rises higher TL will just ignore the problem due to one balancing the other out instead of fixing both.
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EPT
