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Lol at people failing to understand that iamke55 was joking ^^.
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On December 05 2011 20:19 rpgalon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 20:17 StiX wrote:
Does anyone thinks its funny that in:
PvT Protoss has the better end
ZvT Terran has the better end
ZvP Zerg has the better end
? it's the easiest way to achiev balance, a counter systen
yep, it's exactly the same for BW. P > T > Z > P.
honest i think blizzard was intending to do this since it's impossible to make it p=t=z.
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Can somebody explain why the number of games is lowest yet this was the most tournament filled month. I don't understand... I know the active player base who ladder is dropping and the viewership is rising, but this doesn't even account the ladder soo I don't understand. Can anybody give me some solid explaining.
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Oh man! Protoss is doing so well this month!
Happy Zealot! :D
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Australia528 Posts
On December 05 2011 22:18 R!! wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 21:56 storywriter wrote:On December 05 2011 21:43 JoeSchmoe wrote:On December 05 2011 21:15 storywriter wrote:On December 05 2011 21:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 05 2011 20:38 Plansix wrote:On December 05 2011 20:33 k10forgotten wrote:On December 05 2011 19:52 fraktoasters wrote:
Well PvT changed pretty dramatically. I'm just glad the protoss whining has calmed down a lot because it was at a pretty ridiculous level at one point. I hope you don't mind the Terran whining that's already started. Oh it has begun. There are some amazing threads about "SC2 is like.....hard now". Now that they have to aim their EMPs and can no longer stick on MMMGV for the entire game, we might see them not fly their factory around as much. .... People calling terran easy are honestly all retarded. If you dont want us to stay on MMMGV how about you suggest a single T3 unit that doesnt get countered by feedback? Oh you cant? Ok, then STFU. Terran is a hard race. Anyway, I think TvP looks pretty OK at the moment... It's even a little bit varied. Terran is by no means an easy race to play (except for mules) but I feel that saying you can't use tier 3 units because of feedback is going a little too far. It's not like archons and HTs don't see any use because of EMP. I'm still waiting for terrans to start adding in raven+banshee in late game with their excess gas. This combination looks incredibly powerful for a number of reasons. 1. ravens allow sniping of observers. 2. ravens counter both phoenixes and stalkers with PDD. 3. terran already gets ship attack upgrades and they scale super well on banshees. Armour doesn't matter as much thanks to PDD. While I acknowledge that feedback counters both units, PDD can always be cast pre-emptively, ghosts can take out HTs and as a last resort, banshees can burn energy. In worst case scenario, the feedbacked banshee/raven has most likely prevented a storm. This will of course require immensely difficult micro from the terran but I feel like that's what SC has always been about: beating the metagame by getting better (even if it feels like you have to play better than your opponent). you do realize that you can feedback PDDs? you realise i never said you couldn't? Seems my point has flown right over your head, so I'll repeat myself. Ghosts counter HTs and archons harder than any other counters in the game barring voidray vs ultralisk etc. I still use HTs and archons. After being asked by countless terrans that protoss should innvoate and involve carriers/mothership in their play, I feel justified in suggesting the use of a unit that mainly uses up gas - a resource terrans have troulbe finding use for in late game. If you normally play against terrans at such a high level that they propose carrier usage, you really shouldn't be suggesting anything at all.
Since I'm only high master and not in GM, you are more than free to ignore my suggestion and do your own thing. Also, I've seen not just one but a number of posts on TL suggesting the use of carriers not just in PvZ but in PvT - I personally haven't been told by terran opponents to try out carriers. How about you respond with something of substance next time?
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On December 05 2011 22:06 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 21:15 storywriter wrote:On December 05 2011 21:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 05 2011 20:38 Plansix wrote:On December 05 2011 20:33 k10forgotten wrote:On December 05 2011 19:52 fraktoasters wrote:
Well PvT changed pretty dramatically. I'm just glad the protoss whining has calmed down a lot because it was at a pretty ridiculous level at one point. I hope you don't mind the Terran whining that's already started. Oh it has begun. There are some amazing threads about "SC2 is like.....hard now". Now that they have to aim their EMPs and can no longer stick on MMMGV for the entire game, we might see them not fly their factory around as much. .... People calling terran easy are honestly all retarded. If you dont want us to stay on MMMGV how about you suggest a single T3 unit that doesnt get countered by feedback? Oh you cant? Ok, then STFU. Terran is a hard race. Anyway, I think TvP looks pretty OK at the moment... It's even a little bit varied. Terran is by no means an easy race to play (except for mules) but I feel that saying you can't use tier 3 units because of feedback is going a little too far. It's not like archons and HTs don't see any use because of EMP. I'm still waiting for terrans to start adding in raven+banshee in late game with their excess gas. This combination looks incredibly powerful for a number of reasons. 1. ravens allow sniping of observers. 2. ravens counter both phoenixes and stalkers with PDD. 3. terran already gets ship attack upgrades and they scale super well on banshees. Armour doesn't matter as much thanks to PDD. While I acknowledge that feedback counters both units, PDD can always be cast pre-emptively, ghosts can take out HTs and as a last resort, banshees can burn energy. In worst case scenario, the feedbacked banshee/raven has most likely prevented a storm. This will of course require immensely difficult micro from the terran but I feel like that's what SC has always been about: beating the metagame by getting better (even if it feels like you have to play better than your opponent). Feedback counters ravens Feedback counters PDD feedback counters banshees Banshees suck ass vs phoenix PDD sucks vs phoenix Banshees vs 3-3-3 protoss? GL. No, banshees are not the answer. Good early-mid, far too flimsy late.
In addition I'd like to mention that though your banshee raven thing sounds cool in concept (as jinro mentioned it kind of sucks vs HT) but have fun getting enough gas to get ghosts, banshees AND ravens and not die to mass zealot+ht/archon anyways.
Also, despite all the nerfs to Terran, I bet MMM/VG is still easier than going T3 or mech. That's how TvP will be because their units just are built to hard counter terran units.
Post-patch it's either a safe play where you're behind because of chrono boost, or a risk-reward play with a coinflip that could mean auto-loss after.
(1,2,3,4: macro hard and lose to immortal all-in, macro hard and win macro game, tech to ghosts for all-in preparation and likely win, tech to ghosts and lose to macro protoss+colossi)
Though I wouldn't be surprised if new maps with wider areas were to be more beneficial tvp since it's just hard to engage protoss on maps like crossfire... dem ff's are big and immortals are good units lol.
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On December 05 2011 22:05 undyinglight wrote:Protoss is still hurting against Zerg by quite a bit 
Actually, anything within a 5% offset in winrate (45%-55%) is considered balanced by Blizzard (and statistics in general, where 5% is often the margin of error), and should account for things like maps differences, build trends, etc. =)
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On December 05 2011 22:18 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 22:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 05 2011 19:48 Spaceneil8 wrote:Lowest overall Terran win rate ever. Tbh, this leaves me with a little smile on my face.  Yeah. First time they're (baaaaarely) under 50% hahahaha. Protoss actually balancing out a bit? Finally *-* Now, if we can only hope that results level off at the 50% mark and don't continue to swap percentages! It's also too bad that some people consider one race to have a bit of an advantage in one stage of the game, and another race to be stronger in a different stage. I don't get why people look at the OVERALL stats. Look at the specific MUs would the game be balanced if it were TvP 20% win rate and TvZ 80% the win rate would still be 50%. Theoreticly if the TvP winrate drops lower it's gonna be a problem, but if the TvZ rises higher TL will just ignore the problem due to one balancing the other out instead of fixing both.
I did look at all the graphs, but the difference there didn't surprise me... Terrans aren't able to *just* use two ghosts and win anymore, because of the patch. Terrans are going to need to learn to incorporate a few extra ghosts in their armies, which completely counters the new patch, and then you can go ahead and enjoy the old months' win percentages where you used to stomp us (or, at least, balance out the win percentage at 50-50). It's okay, really it is. TvP is in slight fluctuation because of that patch. There's not nearly enough (multiple) ghost play, despite the fact that it completely shuts down Protoss, and Terran isn't nearly as gas-heavy as the other races, so it's certainly viable.
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One funny fact: At the time before the removal of amulet (22 March), PvT and PvZ was balanced.
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On December 05 2011 22:06 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 21:15 storywriter wrote:On December 05 2011 21:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 05 2011 20:38 Plansix wrote:On December 05 2011 20:33 k10forgotten wrote:On December 05 2011 19:52 fraktoasters wrote:
Well PvT changed pretty dramatically. I'm just glad the protoss whining has calmed down a lot because it was at a pretty ridiculous level at one point. I hope you don't mind the Terran whining that's already started. Oh it has begun. There are some amazing threads about "SC2 is like.....hard now". Now that they have to aim their EMPs and can no longer stick on MMMGV for the entire game, we might see them not fly their factory around as much. .... People calling terran easy are honestly all retarded. If you dont want us to stay on MMMGV how about you suggest a single T3 unit that doesnt get countered by feedback? Oh you cant? Ok, then STFU. Terran is a hard race. Anyway, I think TvP looks pretty OK at the moment... It's even a little bit varied. Terran is by no means an easy race to play (except for mules) but I feel that saying you can't use tier 3 units because of feedback is going a little too far. It's not like archons and HTs don't see any use because of EMP. I'm still waiting for terrans to start adding in raven+banshee in late game with their excess gas. This combination looks incredibly powerful for a number of reasons. 1. ravens allow sniping of observers. 2. ravens counter both phoenixes and stalkers with PDD. 3. terran already gets ship attack upgrades and they scale super well on banshees. Armour doesn't matter as much thanks to PDD. While I acknowledge that feedback counters both units, PDD can always be cast pre-emptively, ghosts can take out HTs and as a last resort, banshees can burn energy. In worst case scenario, the feedbacked banshee/raven has most likely prevented a storm. This will of course require immensely difficult micro from the terran but I feel like that's what SC has always been about: beating the metagame by getting better (even if it feels like you have to play better than your opponent). Feedback counters ravens Feedback counters PDD feedback counters banshees Banshees suck ass vs phoenix PDD sucks vs phoenix Banshees vs 3-3-3 protoss? GL. No, banshees are not the answer. Good early-mid, far too flimsy late.
but emp counters ghost
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Switzerland2892 Posts
On December 05 2011 22:05 undyinglight wrote:Protoss is still hurting against Zerg by quite a bit
Don't worry, hero will raise the win ratio to 60% next month :D
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On December 05 2011 22:31 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 22:18 thezanursic wrote:On December 05 2011 22:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 05 2011 19:48 Spaceneil8 wrote:Lowest overall Terran win rate ever. Tbh, this leaves me with a little smile on my face. Yeah. First time they're (baaaaarely) under 50% hahahaha. Protoss actually balancing out a bit? Finally *-* Now, if we can only hope that results level off at the 50% mark and don't continue to swap percentages! It's also too bad that some people consider one race to have a bit of an advantage in one stage of the game, and another race to be stronger in a different stage. I don't get why people look at the OVERALL stats. Look at the specific MUs would the game be balanced if it were TvP 20% win rate and TvZ 80% the win rate would still be 50%. Theoreticly if the TvP winrate drops lower it's gonna be a problem, but if the TvZ rises higher TL will just ignore the problem due to one balancing the other out instead of fixing both. I did look at all the graphs, but the difference there didn't surprise me... Terrans aren't able to *just* use two ghosts and win anymore, because of the patch. Terrans are going to need to learn to incorporate a few extra ghosts in their armies, which completely counters the new patch, and then you can go ahead and enjoy the old months' win percentages where you used to stomp us (or, at least, balance out the win percentage at 50-50). It's okay, really it is. TvP is in fluctation because of that patch. There's not nearly enough ghost play, despite the fact that it completely shuts down Protoss, and Terran isn't nearly as gas-heavy as the other races, so it's viable.
Yeah that's true. It's metagame I think the terrans will try a few more early game pushes until they get used to EMP better.
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Please please dear god let this be the first month in history in which people don't correlate this graph to their ladder experience.
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On December 05 2011 21:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 20:38 Plansix wrote:On December 05 2011 20:33 k10forgotten wrote:On December 05 2011 19:52 fraktoasters wrote:
Well PvT changed pretty dramatically. I'm just glad the protoss whining has calmed down a lot because it was at a pretty ridiculous level at one point. I hope you don't mind the Terran whining that's already started. Oh it has begun. There are some amazing threads about "SC2 is like.....hard now". Now that they have to aim their EMPs and can no longer stick on MMMGV for the entire game, we might see them not fly their factory around as much. .... People calling terran easy are honestly all retarded. If you dont want us to stay on MMMGV how about you suggest a single T3 unit that doesnt get countered by feedback? Oh you cant? Ok, then STFU. Terran is a hard race. Anyway, I think TvP looks pretty OK at the moment... It's even a little bit varied.
Never thought of using EMP on your own units?
Or waste your energy otherwise?
BCs or Thors that can't be feedback, are very hard to handle as protoss.
Add some SCVs in the mix and your army is almost unstopable.
I mean. Seriously. I thought pro-gamers know the game and it's shortcuts a little bit better :/
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On December 05 2011 22:35 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 22:31 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 05 2011 22:18 thezanursic wrote:On December 05 2011 22:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 05 2011 19:48 Spaceneil8 wrote:Lowest overall Terran win rate ever. Tbh, this leaves me with a little smile on my face. Yeah. First time they're (baaaaarely) under 50% hahahaha. Protoss actually balancing out a bit? Finally *-* Now, if we can only hope that results level off at the 50% mark and don't continue to swap percentages! It's also too bad that some people consider one race to have a bit of an advantage in one stage of the game, and another race to be stronger in a different stage. I don't get why people look at the OVERALL stats. Look at the specific MUs would the game be balanced if it were TvP 20% win rate and TvZ 80% the win rate would still be 50%. Theoreticly if the TvP winrate drops lower it's gonna be a problem, but if the TvZ rises higher TL will just ignore the problem due to one balancing the other out instead of fixing both. I did look at all the graphs, but the difference there didn't surprise me... Terrans aren't able to *just* use two ghosts and win anymore, because of the patch. Terrans are going to need to learn to incorporate a few extra ghosts in their armies, which completely counters the new patch, and then you can go ahead and enjoy the old months' win percentages where you used to stomp us (or, at least, balance out the win percentage at 50-50). It's okay, really it is. TvP is in fluctation because of that patch. There's not nearly enough ghost play, despite the fact that it completely shuts down Protoss, and Terran isn't nearly as gas-heavy as the other races, so it's viable. I agree. It's one of the I've played better and lost situation. Soo many times I miss an EMP and just die where Toss doesn't seem to have that problem late game, but I guess that counter acts the early game where an early ghost EMP just destroys the protoss if he doesn't split.
Well to be fair, I'm pretty sure Protosses have straight up died to investing in high templar tech and missing their storms in the same way you mention missing EMPs with your ghosts.
If you invest in tech and it doesn't pay off (especially with spellcasters), then you're already behind. In PvT, one army usually smashes the other, and so the battle will look even more one-sided if you have a smaller army and "useless" spellcasters (because they got picked off or you missed with their spells).
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On December 05 2011 22:06 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +Terran is by no means an easy race to play (except for mules) but I feel that saying you can't use tier 3 units because of feedback is going a little too far. It's not like archons and HTs don't see any use because of EMP.
I'm still waiting for terrans to start adding in raven+banshee in late game with their excess gas. This combination looks incredibly powerful for a number of reasons. 1. ravens allow sniping of observers. 2. ravens counter both phoenixes and stalkers with PDD. 3. terran already gets ship attack upgrades and they scale super well on banshees. Armour doesn't matter as much thanks to PDD.
While I acknowledge that feedback counters both units, PDD can always be cast pre-emptively, ghosts can take out HTs and as a last resort, banshees can burn energy. In worst case scenario, the feedbacked banshee/raven has most likely prevented a storm. This will of course require immensely difficult micro from the terran but I feel like that's what SC has always been about: beating the metagame by getting better (even if it feels like you have to play better than your opponent). Feedback counters ravens Feedback counters PDD feedback counters banshees Banshees suck ass vs phoenix PDD sucks vs phoenix Banshees vs 3-3-3 protoss? GL. No, banshees are not the answer. Good early-mid, far too flimsy late.
Well I have not your knowledge of the game but Ghosts counter basically the whole protoss race... I mean Templars are discretional and sometimes they aren't even suited to fight particular terran armies (you can argue that you can still transition into archons, but if you can't scout in time you'll find yourself in trouble), Ghosts are a perfect counter to every tier 3 non-terran unit in the game.
If you make ghosts in a PvT you will never be wrong, no matter your opponent army... same for TvZ in late.
And I don't agree with your rant against phonixes: terrans already have the best anti air in the whole game, you can't make them phoenix-proof everytime. Especially since the protoss will need a consistent amount of phonixes to make his strategies work.
On the banshees issue, I agree.
Unless the terran can manage to snipe the robo down, then they are hell from above.
But I guess it works more in mid than in late game.
I think that it will come down to implement a raven in the army, and battles will become a race to snipe the observer/templars or kill the raven beforehand and then react to the terran movements.
Edit: fixed a sentence
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Australia528 Posts
On December 05 2011 22:29 Ktk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 22:06 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 05 2011 21:15 storywriter wrote:On December 05 2011 21:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 05 2011 20:38 Plansix wrote:On December 05 2011 20:33 k10forgotten wrote:On December 05 2011 19:52 fraktoasters wrote:
Well PvT changed pretty dramatically. I'm just glad the protoss whining has calmed down a lot because it was at a pretty ridiculous level at one point. I hope you don't mind the Terran whining that's already started. Oh it has begun. There are some amazing threads about "SC2 is like.....hard now". Now that they have to aim their EMPs and can no longer stick on MMMGV for the entire game, we might see them not fly their factory around as much. .... People calling terran easy are honestly all retarded. If you dont want us to stay on MMMGV how about you suggest a single T3 unit that doesnt get countered by feedback? Oh you cant? Ok, then STFU. Terran is a hard race. Anyway, I think TvP looks pretty OK at the moment... It's even a little bit varied. Terran is by no means an easy race to play (except for mules) but I feel that saying you can't use tier 3 units because of feedback is going a little too far. It's not like archons and HTs don't see any use because of EMP. I'm still waiting for terrans to start adding in raven+banshee in late game with their excess gas. This combination looks incredibly powerful for a number of reasons. 1. ravens allow sniping of observers. 2. ravens counter both phoenixes and stalkers with PDD. 3. terran already gets ship attack upgrades and they scale super well on banshees. Armour doesn't matter as much thanks to PDD. While I acknowledge that feedback counters both units, PDD can always be cast pre-emptively, ghosts can take out HTs and as a last resort, banshees can burn energy. In worst case scenario, the feedbacked banshee/raven has most likely prevented a storm. This will of course require immensely difficult micro from the terran but I feel like that's what SC has always been about: beating the metagame by getting better (even if it feels like you have to play better than your opponent). Feedback counters ravens Feedback counters PDD feedback counters banshees Banshees suck ass vs phoenix PDD sucks vs phoenix Banshees vs 3-3-3 protoss? GL. No, banshees are not the answer. Good early-mid, far too flimsy late. In addition I'd like to mention that though your banshee raven thing sounds cool in concept (as jinro mentioned it kind of sucks vs HT) but have fun getting enough gas to get ghosts, banshees AND ravens and not die to mass zealot+ht/archon anyways. Also, despite all the nerfs to Terran, I bet MMM/VG is still easier than going T3 or mech. That's how TvP will be because their units just are built to hard counter terran units. Post-patch it's either a safe play where you're behind because of chrono boost, or a risk-reward play with a coinflip that could mean auto-loss after. (1,2,3,4: macro hard and lose to immortal all-in, macro hard and win macro game, tech to ghosts for all-in preparation and likely win, tech to ghosts and lose to macro protoss+colossi) Though I wouldn't be surprised if new maps with wider areas were to be more beneficial tvp since it's just hard to engage protoss on maps like crossfire... dem ff's are big and immortals are good units lol.
Okay, if you want to talk about counters, other than HT, protoss has absolutely no counter to a combination of banshee + raven. I admit that it certainly won't be easy to get this composition but nowhere did I mention that a terran player should go pure banshee+raven. I meant that they should be added into the terran army slowly starting in mid-late game.
MMM/VG is and will always be the backbone of the terran army. However, Using tier 3 units on top of that, I believe, will distinguish between average and top-class terrans in the future.
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On December 05 2011 22:41 Iatrik wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 21:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 05 2011 20:38 Plansix wrote:On December 05 2011 20:33 k10forgotten wrote:On December 05 2011 19:52 fraktoasters wrote:
Well PvT changed pretty dramatically. I'm just glad the protoss whining has calmed down a lot because it was at a pretty ridiculous level at one point. I hope you don't mind the Terran whining that's already started. Oh it has begun. There are some amazing threads about "SC2 is like.....hard now". Now that they have to aim their EMPs and can no longer stick on MMMGV for the entire game, we might see them not fly their factory around as much. .... People calling terran easy are honestly all retarded. If you dont want us to stay on MMMGV how about you suggest a single T3 unit that doesnt get countered by feedback? Oh you cant? Ok, then STFU. Terran is a hard race. Anyway, I think TvP looks pretty OK at the moment... It's even a little bit varied. Never thought of using EMP on your own units? Or waste your energy otherwise? BCs or Thors that can't be feedback, are very hard to handle as protoss. Add some SCVs in the mix and your army is almost unstopable. I mean. Seriously. I thought pro-gamers know the game and it's shortcuts a little bit better :/
Impractical work arounds.
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On December 05 2011 22:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 22:35 thezanursic wrote:On December 05 2011 22:31 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 05 2011 22:18 thezanursic wrote:On December 05 2011 22:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 05 2011 19:48 Spaceneil8 wrote:Lowest overall Terran win rate ever. Tbh, this leaves me with a little smile on my face. Yeah. First time they're (baaaaarely) under 50% hahahaha. Protoss actually balancing out a bit? Finally *-* Now, if we can only hope that results level off at the 50% mark and don't continue to swap percentages! It's also too bad that some people consider one race to have a bit of an advantage in one stage of the game, and another race to be stronger in a different stage. I don't get why people look at the OVERALL stats. Look at the specific MUs would the game be balanced if it were TvP 20% win rate and TvZ 80% the win rate would still be 50%. Theoreticly if the TvP winrate drops lower it's gonna be a problem, but if the TvZ rises higher TL will just ignore the problem due to one balancing the other out instead of fixing both. I did look at all the graphs, but the difference there didn't surprise me... Terrans aren't able to *just* use two ghosts and win anymore, because of the patch. Terrans are going to need to learn to incorporate a few extra ghosts in their armies, which completely counters the new patch, and then you can go ahead and enjoy the old months' win percentages where you used to stomp us (or, at least, balance out the win percentage at 50-50). It's okay, really it is. TvP is in fluctation because of that patch. There's not nearly enough ghost play, despite the fact that it completely shuts down Protoss, and Terran isn't nearly as gas-heavy as the other races, so it's viable. I agree. It's one of the I've played better and lost situation. Soo many times I miss an EMP and just die where Toss doesn't seem to have that problem late game, but I guess that counter acts the early game where an early ghost EMP just destroys the protoss if he doesn't split. Well to be fair, I'm pretty sure Protosses have straight up died to investing in high templar tech and missing their storms in the same way you mention missing EMPs with your ghosts. If you invest in tech and it doesn't pay off (especially with spellcasters), then you're already behind. In PvT, one army usually smashes the other, and so the battle will look even more one-sided if you have a smaller army and "useless" spellcasters (because they got picked off or you missed with their spells).
I agree and first I'm going to talk about the middle tier leagues not the pros. TvP is hard due to Terran having to react what Protoss does I mean you gotta get vikings for colossus or you are dead you gotta get ghosts for storm. Soo the terran is always playing the reaction game late game when Protoss does that early game.
The thing is that Terran is really strong early game and Protoss is really strong late game, but due to all the experience the good Protoss have gathered early pushes aren't a problem to deal with and that's why the win rates shifted.
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On December 05 2011 22:31 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 22:18 thezanursic wrote:On December 05 2011 22:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 05 2011 19:48 Spaceneil8 wrote:Lowest overall Terran win rate ever. Tbh, this leaves me with a little smile on my face. Yeah. First time they're (baaaaarely) under 50% hahahaha. Protoss actually balancing out a bit? Finally *-* Now, if we can only hope that results level off at the 50% mark and don't continue to swap percentages! It's also too bad that some people consider one race to have a bit of an advantage in one stage of the game, and another race to be stronger in a different stage. I don't get why people look at the OVERALL stats. Look at the specific MUs would the game be balanced if it were TvP 20% win rate and TvZ 80% the win rate would still be 50%. Theoreticly if the TvP winrate drops lower it's gonna be a problem, but if the TvZ rises higher TL will just ignore the problem due to one balancing the other out instead of fixing both. I did look at all the graphs, but the difference there didn't surprise me... Terrans aren't able to *just* use two ghosts and win anymore, because of the patch. Terrans are going to need to learn to incorporate a few extra ghosts in their armies, which completely counters the new patch, and then you can go ahead and enjoy the old months' win percentages where you used to stomp us (or, at least, balance out the win percentage at 50-50). It's okay, really it is. TvP is in slight fluctuation because of that patch. There's not nearly enough (multiple) ghost play, despite the fact that it completely shuts down Protoss, and Terran isn't nearly as gas-heavy as the other races, so it's certainly viable.
Even before the patch with 10 ghosts, lategame was hard as hell. Terrans can make 20 ghosts now, and lategame will still be insane.
I know several grandmaster tosses who give me 1 advice: allin me or win before the 15 minute mark, because you will die, unless I fuck up. Some even dare to say that they ALWAYS win in a macrogame vs terran, unless they make a big mistake.
Then I respond with "I don't like to allin" and "I want to play nice long macro games". Then I ask if there is not a way for me to fight them lategame. Their answer is: no, really not, I'm sorry.
I'm still looking for a protoss that can tell me what to build lategame. I tried pure marauder + 10+ ghosts + medivacs and vikings. I tried to mix in marines. I tried to mix in thors. I tried to mix in hellions. I tried to mix in tanks. Every time I fail very hard.
I'm not saying that TvP is imbalanced. I'm just wondering what a sollution can be. I hoped to find one in the MLG Providence replays, but I didn't.
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EPT
