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On December 05 2011 21:15 Grimss wrote:
Terrans haven't the best winning percentage for the 1rst time in the history of sc2 ! Champagne
The second time, yo. Check your facts.
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I guess these stats show that terrans were cut by surprise with all the nerfs and buffs and didn't get to update the strategies, and the old ones got them losses.
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On December 05 2011 21:07 Pandemona wrote:
ROFL
Patched work no? Look at PvT, that is fkn insane!!!!
Protos vs Zerg 3% climb for Protos in that aswell! Madness!!
Wowzers, Least TvZ seems even ^_^ 1 balanced match up out of 3 not bad
You are being crazy though to think all the matchups will be perfect 50%, because they will never be exactly 50% because each map can't be perfectly balanced, and each patch rocks the races. Immortal timings were already good TvP before the EMP nerf (obviously because they came much earlier) and now with the emp nerf, late pushes like that are ridiculously good. And a 53% balance for Zvp is pretty dam good.
-Random player
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On December 05 2011 21:17 MandoRelease wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 21:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 05 2011 20:38 Plansix wrote:On December 05 2011 20:33 k10forgotten wrote:On December 05 2011 19:52 fraktoasters wrote:
Well PvT changed pretty dramatically. I'm just glad the protoss whining has calmed down a lot because it was at a pretty ridiculous level at one point. I hope you don't mind the Terran whining that's already started. Oh it has begun. There are some amazing threads about "SC2 is like.....hard now". Now that they have to aim their EMPs and can no longer stick on MMMGV for the entire game, we might see them not fly their factory around as much. .... People calling terran easy are honestly all retarded. If you dont want us to stay on MMMGV how about you suggest a single T3 unit that doesnt get countered by feedback? Oh you cant? Ok, then STFU. Terran is a hard race.Anyway, I think TvP looks pretty OK at the moment... It's even a little bit varied. Well, it's not easier nor harder than Protoss or Zerg. What's your point ? Some say T is easier because some sloppy plays are not punished as heavily with T as it is with Z or P. No need to take it they say the race is overall easier.
Actually terran is harder to play than Protoss thats a fact.
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Anyone who thinks that the rates should be a perfect 50% is frankly too naive. Theres no way that matches can be a perfect 50% balanced and there will always be fluctuations due to metagame changes/ luck/ an outstanding player/random tourneys.
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On December 05 2011 21:21 secretary bird wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 21:17 MandoRelease wrote:On December 05 2011 21:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 05 2011 20:38 Plansix wrote:On December 05 2011 20:33 k10forgotten wrote:On December 05 2011 19:52 fraktoasters wrote:
Well PvT changed pretty dramatically. I'm just glad the protoss whining has calmed down a lot because it was at a pretty ridiculous level at one point. I hope you don't mind the Terran whining that's already started. Oh it has begun. There are some amazing threads about "SC2 is like.....hard now". Now that they have to aim their EMPs and can no longer stick on MMMGV for the entire game, we might see them not fly their factory around as much. .... People calling terran easy are honestly all retarded. If you dont want us to stay on MMMGV how about you suggest a single T3 unit that doesnt get countered by feedback? Oh you cant? Ok, then STFU. Terran is a hard race.Anyway, I think TvP looks pretty OK at the moment... It's even a little bit varied. Well, it's not easier nor harder than Protoss or Zerg. What's your point ? Some say T is easier because some sloppy plays are not punished as heavily with T as it is with Z or P. No need to take it they say the race is overall easier. Actually terran is harder to play than Protoss thats a fact.
based on blind bias or ?
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On December 05 2011 21:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 20:38 Plansix wrote:On December 05 2011 20:33 k10forgotten wrote:On December 05 2011 19:52 fraktoasters wrote:
Well PvT changed pretty dramatically. I'm just glad the protoss whining has calmed down a lot because it was at a pretty ridiculous level at one point. I hope you don't mind the Terran whining that's already started. Oh it has begun. There are some amazing threads about "SC2 is like.....hard now". Now that they have to aim their EMPs and can no longer stick on MMMGV for the entire game, we might see them not fly their factory around as much. .... People calling terran easy are honestly all retarded. If you dont want us to stay on MMMGV how about you suggest a single T3 unit that doesnt get countered by feedback? Oh you cant? Ok, then STFU. Terran is a hard race. Anyway, I think TvP looks pretty OK at the moment... It's even a little bit varied.
I respect that and understand that terran is hard. I have a less than awesome win rate against them however. It is my worst match up by far and I seem to be able to avoid posting long winded threads about the flaws with my race and why I can't win.
I do agree with you that terran teir 3 units are kinda dumb. Blizzard seems to have a hard time balancing the really expensive units. The only two they have made that are worth their cost are the colossi and brood lord. The thor and BC are kinda crap. The thor's only roll seems to be making protoss lose to stupid early all ins.
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On December 05 2011 20:37 Silidons wrote:
Overall the game is actually pretty balanced obviously, but to me it's just....lacking substance.
It's because certain races seem to have large advantages over one another at different points in the game. Like, why in god's name did Blizzard decide to nerf emp during the era of 1/1/1? So now to make up for imbalances in the early game you have a nerf to more standard play to make the numbers look pretty, but now you've got two problems covered by a statistics blanket.
Also, certain matchups seem like they'll forever be dumb. TvP will always be bioball vs. deathball, and ZvP will always be about how much damage the protoss opener can do.
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On December 05 2011 21:23 Sanchonator wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 21:21 secretary bird wrote:On December 05 2011 21:17 MandoRelease wrote:On December 05 2011 21:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 05 2011 20:38 Plansix wrote:On December 05 2011 20:33 k10forgotten wrote:On December 05 2011 19:52 fraktoasters wrote:
Well PvT changed pretty dramatically. I'm just glad the protoss whining has calmed down a lot because it was at a pretty ridiculous level at one point. I hope you don't mind the Terran whining that's already started. Oh it has begun. There are some amazing threads about "SC2 is like.....hard now". Now that they have to aim their EMPs and can no longer stick on MMMGV for the entire game, we might see them not fly their factory around as much. .... People calling terran easy are honestly all retarded. If you dont want us to stay on MMMGV how about you suggest a single T3 unit that doesnt get countered by feedback? Oh you cant? Ok, then STFU. Terran is a hard race.Anyway, I think TvP looks pretty OK at the moment... It's even a little bit varied. Well, it's not easier nor harder than Protoss or Zerg. What's your point ? Some say T is easier because some sloppy plays are not punished as heavily with T as it is with Z or P. No need to take it they say the race is overall easier. Actually terran is harder to play than Protoss thats a fact. based on blind bias or ?
I think he would say fact. It is unclear. I would say each race is hard to play. However, the to get the community to accept that your race is the "hardest', you need to post a lot of threads about how horrible and difficult your race is.
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On December 05 2011 21:17 MandoRelease wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 21:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 05 2011 20:38 Plansix wrote:On December 05 2011 20:33 k10forgotten wrote:On December 05 2011 19:52 fraktoasters wrote:
Well PvT changed pretty dramatically. I'm just glad the protoss whining has calmed down a lot because it was at a pretty ridiculous level at one point. I hope you don't mind the Terran whining that's already started. Oh it has begun. There are some amazing threads about "SC2 is like.....hard now". Now that they have to aim their EMPs and can no longer stick on MMMGV for the entire game, we might see them not fly their factory around as much. .... People calling terran easy are honestly all retarded. If you dont want us to stay on MMMGV how about you suggest a single T3 unit that doesnt get countered by feedback? Oh you cant? Ok, then STFU. Terran is a hard race.Anyway, I think TvP looks pretty OK at the moment... It's even a little bit varied. Well, it's not easier nor harder than Protoss or Zerg. What's your point ? Some say T is easier because some sloppy plays are not punished as heavily with T as it is with Z or P. No need to take it they say the race is overall easier.
a lot of people are saying that terran is somehow easy (and implying that terran is too good across the board). Even you talking about "sloppy plays" is part of that line of thinking. Terran is punished for "sloppy play" just as hard as every other race. I don't even know see what in the game is supposed to make terran more resilient to "sloppy play." Bunkers? Play sloppily and don't pull workers in time - evaporated bunkers. Tanks? Play sloppily and get caught unsieged/in a bad position -- dead tanks/army. Etc.
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On December 05 2011 21:25 Plansix wrote:
I respect that and understand that terran is hard. I have a less than awesome win rate against them however. It is my worst match up by far and I seem to be able to avoid posting long winded threads about the flaws with my race and why I can't win.
Maybe you can, others couldnt. Crybabies are everywhere, shouldnt care about them.
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On December 05 2011 21:15 Grimss wrote:
Terrans haven't the best winning percentage for the 1rst time in the history of sc2 ! Champagne
That's true, but TvP was the worst for Protoss last month and TvP is the worst for Terran this month, but besides that this is the second biggest difference in this match up this doesn't mean Terran was OP against protoss and that's why their statistics were low this means both terran and ZERG contributed to the low statistics. Soo complaining is bad, but theoreticly terrans should have the right to complain. And Protoss was 0.1% upping Terrans in overall in February trolololol
Ohh and last month the protoss were all up in arms on EMP when they were actually doing worse against zerg so another reason why complaining is useless.
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On December 05 2011 21:21 secretary bird wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 21:17 MandoRelease wrote:On December 05 2011 21:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 05 2011 20:38 Plansix wrote:On December 05 2011 20:33 k10forgotten wrote:On December 05 2011 19:52 fraktoasters wrote:
Well PvT changed pretty dramatically. I'm just glad the protoss whining has calmed down a lot because it was at a pretty ridiculous level at one point. I hope you don't mind the Terran whining that's already started. Oh it has begun. There are some amazing threads about "SC2 is like.....hard now". Now that they have to aim their EMPs and can no longer stick on MMMGV for the entire game, we might see them not fly their factory around as much. .... People calling terran easy are honestly all retarded. If you dont want us to stay on MMMGV how about you suggest a single T3 unit that doesnt get countered by feedback? Oh you cant? Ok, then STFU. Terran is a hard race.Anyway, I think TvP looks pretty OK at the moment... It's even a little bit varied. Well, it's not easier nor harder than Protoss or Zerg. What's your point ? Some say T is easier because some sloppy plays are not punished as heavily with T as it is with Z or P. No need to take it they say the race is overall easier. Actually terran is harder to play than Protoss thats a fact.
edit: ppl can't take a joke
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On December 05 2011 21:32 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 21:21 secretary bird wrote:On December 05 2011 21:17 MandoRelease wrote:On December 05 2011 21:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 05 2011 20:38 Plansix wrote:On December 05 2011 20:33 k10forgotten wrote:On December 05 2011 19:52 fraktoasters wrote:
Well PvT changed pretty dramatically. I'm just glad the protoss whining has calmed down a lot because it was at a pretty ridiculous level at one point. I hope you don't mind the Terran whining that's already started. Oh it has begun. There are some amazing threads about "SC2 is like.....hard now". Now that they have to aim their EMPs and can no longer stick on MMMGV for the entire game, we might see them not fly their factory around as much. .... People calling terran easy are honestly all retarded. If you dont want us to stay on MMMGV how about you suggest a single T3 unit that doesnt get countered by feedback? Oh you cant? Ok, then STFU. Terran is a hard race.Anyway, I think TvP looks pretty OK at the moment... It's even a little bit varied. Well, it's not easier nor harder than Protoss or Zerg. What's your point ? Some say T is easier because some sloppy plays are not punished as heavily with T as it is with Z or P. No need to take it they say the race is overall easier. Actually terran is harder to play than Protoss thats a fact. So hard that you can be the best Terran in the world without knowing any upgrade timings past 1/1?
I like how even the mods seem to have a protoss bias on this forum. Are you saying that players like MVP don't upgrade their units past 1/1?
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Looking really good finally. Glad to see terran win rate falling a little and protoss increasing. Seems pretty balanced.
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On December 05 2011 21:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 20:38 Plansix wrote:On December 05 2011 20:33 k10forgotten wrote:On December 05 2011 19:52 fraktoasters wrote:
Well PvT changed pretty dramatically. I'm just glad the protoss whining has calmed down a lot because it was at a pretty ridiculous level at one point. I hope you don't mind the Terran whining that's already started. Oh it has begun. There are some amazing threads about "SC2 is like.....hard now". Now that they have to aim their EMPs and can no longer stick on MMMGV for the entire game, we might see them not fly their factory around as much. .... People calling terran easy are honestly all retarded. If you dont want us to stay on MMMGV how about you suggest a single T3 unit that doesnt get countered by feedback? Oh you cant? Ok, then STFU. Terran is a hard race. Anyway, I think TvP looks pretty OK at the moment... It's even a little bit varied.
I agree about Terran T3 units being all prone to feedback but it's like me saying that because of ghost snipe I won't be building BL or Ultralisks in the late game.
Also ghost counter HT with EMP, so it becomes a micro war.
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On December 05 2011 21:32 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 21:21 secretary bird wrote:On December 05 2011 21:17 MandoRelease wrote:On December 05 2011 21:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 05 2011 20:38 Plansix wrote:On December 05 2011 20:33 k10forgotten wrote:On December 05 2011 19:52 fraktoasters wrote:
Well PvT changed pretty dramatically. I'm just glad the protoss whining has calmed down a lot because it was at a pretty ridiculous level at one point. I hope you don't mind the Terran whining that's already started. Oh it has begun. There are some amazing threads about "SC2 is like.....hard now". Now that they have to aim their EMPs and can no longer stick on MMMGV for the entire game, we might see them not fly their factory around as much. .... People calling terran easy are honestly all retarded. If you dont want us to stay on MMMGV how about you suggest a single T3 unit that doesnt get countered by feedback? Oh you cant? Ok, then STFU. Terran is a hard race.Anyway, I think TvP looks pretty OK at the moment... It's even a little bit varied. Well, it's not easier nor harder than Protoss or Zerg. What's your point ? Some say T is easier because some sloppy plays are not punished as heavily with T as it is with Z or P. No need to take it they say the race is overall easier. Actually terran is harder to play than Protoss thats a fact. So hard that you can be the best Terran in the world without knowing any upgrade timings past 1/1?
MVP gets upgrades so I have no idea what you're implying. If it's that PuMa is the best Terran in the world, lol. Sadly, this won't stop the balance whine, though it never got completely out of hand so it wasn't justified in the first place. Thanks for the graphs!
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On December 05 2011 21:32 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 21:21 secretary bird wrote:On December 05 2011 21:17 MandoRelease wrote:On December 05 2011 21:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 05 2011 20:38 Plansix wrote:On December 05 2011 20:33 k10forgotten wrote:On December 05 2011 19:52 fraktoasters wrote:
Well PvT changed pretty dramatically. I'm just glad the protoss whining has calmed down a lot because it was at a pretty ridiculous level at one point. I hope you don't mind the Terran whining that's already started. Oh it has begun. There are some amazing threads about "SC2 is like.....hard now". Now that they have to aim their EMPs and can no longer stick on MMMGV for the entire game, we might see them not fly their factory around as much. .... People calling terran easy are honestly all retarded. If you dont want us to stay on MMMGV how about you suggest a single T3 unit that doesnt get countered by feedback? Oh you cant? Ok, then STFU. Terran is a hard race.Anyway, I think TvP looks pretty OK at the moment... It's even a little bit varied. Well, it's not easier nor harder than Protoss or Zerg. What's your point ? Some say T is easier because some sloppy plays are not punished as heavily with T as it is with Z or P. No need to take it they say the race is overall easier. Actually terran is harder to play than Protoss thats a fact. So hard that you can be the best Terran in the world without knowing any upgrade timings past 1/1?
I don't understand why you have to make such a biased statement that is not even based on any facts. Please stop contributing to the cesspool of balance whine.
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On December 05 2011 21:28 Quotidian wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 21:17 MandoRelease wrote:On December 05 2011 21:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 05 2011 20:38 Plansix wrote:On December 05 2011 20:33 k10forgotten wrote:On December 05 2011 19:52 fraktoasters wrote:
Well PvT changed pretty dramatically. I'm just glad the protoss whining has calmed down a lot because it was at a pretty ridiculous level at one point. I hope you don't mind the Terran whining that's already started. Oh it has begun. There are some amazing threads about "SC2 is like.....hard now". Now that they have to aim their EMPs and can no longer stick on MMMGV for the entire game, we might see them not fly their factory around as much. .... People calling terran easy are honestly all retarded. If you dont want us to stay on MMMGV how about you suggest a single T3 unit that doesnt get countered by feedback? Oh you cant? Ok, then STFU. Terran is a hard race.Anyway, I think TvP looks pretty OK at the moment... It's even a little bit varied. Well, it's not easier nor harder than Protoss or Zerg. What's your point ? Some say T is easier because some sloppy plays are not punished as heavily with T as it is with Z or P. No need to take it they say the race is overall easier. a lot of people are saying that terran is somehow easy (and implying that terran is too good across the board). Even you talking about "sloppy plays" is part of that line of thinking. Terran is punished for "sloppy play" just as hard as every other race. I don't even know see what in the game is supposed to make terran more resilient to "sloppy play." Bunkers? Play sloppily and don't pull workers in time - evaporated bunkers. Tanks? Play sloppily and get caught unsieged/in a bad position -- dead tanks/army. Etc.
I was more thinking around the lines "have army out of position, repair give you enough time to be okay", "just lost a battle, PF is there to prevent ennemy's surviving units to move forward" or "lose an expansion with 30 workers, float your main CC and spam mules" or even "did not anticipate fast cloaked units, can still survive with scans".
It's not that Terran's mechanics makes you okay all the time, it's just that you can buy time more easily and you can get an expansion up&running more quickly even after just losing one (when Z & P still have to actually wait for the nexus or hatchery to complete).
Like I said, T gets punished, just not as heavily.
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Hey look game is balanced.
Well maybe. I have a feeling protoss is going to rock the win rates maybe next month barring any crazy changes.. Metagame is still pretty shaky.
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EPT
