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Keep the discussion civil, please. |
Totalbiscuit and Slasher are totally wrong, but I guess everyone wants to be famous even if they aren't good at anything. Tasteless, Artosis, and to a lesser extent, Day9 (he tries too hard and it gets annoying) are honestly the ONLY good casters in the English speaking/foreigner scene, with no exceptions (no disrespect to DJwheat, mad respect good friend and all). The deal is, if this shit is going to be considered a "sport", and players are going to all these tournaments, there isn't THAT much prize money to go around, and even if you place in the money in EVERY tournament you go to, you can't get rich off it and you can barely live off it. You need fame and face + name recognition, and that is how this "sport" will evolve. People like Tiger Woods made all that money from sponsorship and endorsement; prize purses were just gravy. The point is, the ONLY faces we should be seeing during a SC2 match are those of the two players, and we should be seeing them often. I don't honestly WANT to see that casters. I don't even want to know what they look like. Watch pro Football. Baseball. Basketball. They show the game the entire time, closeups of the players, stuff like that. They don't cut to the guys in the booth all the time and show them. They do interviews and stuff BEFORE and AFTER the game, but while shit's going down, it's the players' time in the spotlight, it's their time to play, show off what they can do, and BE SEEN. If the casters face is shown at all, it should be during an interview with the winner or something, but honestly, they need to be in a back room somewhere with sound controls, with the camera crew up front getting footage of the players faces, hands, screens, split-screens of both players facial expressions during crucial moments and big battles, all the goods spliced in with the actual game going on. THAT is how a cast of this game needs to go. If I watch a VoD, THAT is what I want to see.
By the way, I forget which tournament did it, but when Artosis and Tasteless were commentating, and after EVERY GAME they pan over to a bunch of fags sitting on a couch, including a ridiculously ugly fat dude in a FUCKING TOP HAT and they just talked for no reason about the game was literally the dumbest idea I have EVER seen in my life. God, that was blood-boiling. I couldn't bear to watch it, it was so clearly forced, so dumb, so fucking ANNOYING. The hilarious part was that Tasteless had to pretend he was so interested to hear "what our friends over on the couch have to say!". Jesus H. Christ, shoot me if that ever happens again. Oh, and top hat guy? Fuck you.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On January 05 2012 00:16 Naniwa wrote:
casters get paid way more than the best players.. WAY more thats all ill say :X
How do you know what the best players get? And what do you mean with "casters"? Only 2-3 or maybe more? How do you know how much they earn? There are casters with a bigger fan base than any players has.
I don't know, comments like that only force drama.
On January 05 2012 00:34 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 00:12 Choboo wrote:On January 04 2012 23:34 Usagi wrote:On January 04 2012 22:37 Derez wrote:
(Huk mentioning casters being overpaid is kinda funny tho.) It's funny because it is true. :/ Huk talking about people being overpaid is funny because he's getting paid more than most Koreans in code S because he's white. HuK isn't paid more because he's white, it's because he's on EG. You bet that if any top tier korean who's better than HuK decided to join EG they'd be getting way more dough.
I bet against that unless it's MVP. HuK doesn't get paid only because he is a good player (maybe the best foreigner by the way) but also because he is a fan favorite, a NA player (better for EG sponsors) and other reasons.
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Pros have no place to complain about casters getting paid more than the players. If they truly believe that they're more valuable than the casters are to cups, circuits, invitationals, and tournaments, they (or, more likely, their managers) should leverage that. No one's stopping them from campaigning for appearance fees.
I guess what I'm saying is that casters are paid how much people think that they're worth. If players think that they're worth more than that, they should market themselves as being worth more instead of complaining about everyone else who gets more than they do.
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Canada5565 Posts
I have never understood the caster fetish.
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On January 05 2012 00:45 LF9 wrote:
Totalbiscuit and Slasher are totally wrong, but I guess everyone wants to be famous even if they aren't good at anything. Tasteless, Artosis, and to a lesser extent, Day9 (he tries too hard and it gets annoying) are honestly the ONLY good casters in the English speaking/foreigner scene, with no exceptions (no disrespect to DJwheat, mad respect good friend and all). The deal is, if this shit is going to be considered a "sport", and players are going to all these tournaments, there isn't THAT much prize money to go around, and even if you place in the money in EVERY tournament you go to, you can't get rich off it and you can barely live off it. You need fame and face + name recognition, and that is how this "sport" will evolve. People like Tiger Woods made all that money from sponsorship and endorsement; prize purses were just gravy. The point is, the ONLY faces we should be seeing during a SC2 match are those of the two players, and we should be seeing them often. I don't honestly WANT to see that casters. I don't even want to know what they look like. Watch pro Football. Baseball. Basketball. They show the game the entire time, closeups of the players, stuff like that. They don't cut to the guys in the booth all the time and show them. They do interviews and stuff BEFORE and AFTER the game, but while shit's going down, it's the players' time in the spotlight, it's their time to play, show off what they can do, and BE SEEN. If the casters face is shown at all, it should be during an interview with the winner or something, but honestly, they need to be in a back room somewhere with sound controls, with the camera crew up front getting footage of the players faces, hands, screens, split-screens of both players facial expressions during crucial moments and big battles, all the goods spliced in with the actual game going on. THAT is how a cast of this game needs to go. If I watch a VoD, THAT is what I want to see.
By the way, I forget which tournament did it, but when Artosis and Tasteless were commentating, and after EVERY GAME they pan over to a bunch of fags sitting on a couch, including a ridiculously ugly fat dude in a FUCKING TOP HAT and they just talked for no reason about the game was literally the dumbest idea I have EVER seen in my life. God, that was blood-boiling. I couldn't bear to watch it, it was so clearly forced, so dumb, so fucking ANNOYING. The hilarious part was that Tasteless had to pretend he was so interested to hear "what our friends over on the couch have to say!". Jesus H. Christ, shoot me if that ever happens again. Oh, and top hat guy? Fuck you.
Not sure exactly what your problem was with that, given that you talk about real sports in the first part of your post, then bitch about the guys on the couch in the second part.
When I watch "real" sports on TV, want to know what happens?
They have a couple of guys commentating the game/match/race/whatever, and when it's a break or it's over, they cut back to a studio/similar.
That's exactly what they did with the whole couch thing.
You get 2 or so commentators for a professional match. During half time you get some analysts, usually in a studio somewhere, who talk from their perspective about how things went. Then you cut back to the commentators when the game resumes.
You may not like who was on the couch, that's fine, but the concept of commentators + between game analysts is something you do see in professional televised sports.
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On January 05 2012 00:45 KiNGxXx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 00:16 Naniwa wrote:
casters get paid way more than the best players.. WAY more thats all ill say :X How do you know what the best players get? And what do you mean with "casters"? Only 2-3 or maybe more? How do you know how much they earn? There are casters with a bigger fan base than any players has. I don't know, comments like that only force drama. Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 00:34 S_SienZ wrote:On January 05 2012 00:12 Choboo wrote:On January 04 2012 23:34 Usagi wrote:On January 04 2012 22:37 Derez wrote:
(Huk mentioning casters being overpaid is kinda funny tho.) It's funny because it is true. :/ Huk talking about people being overpaid is funny because he's getting paid more than most Koreans in code S because he's white. HuK isn't paid more because he's white, it's because he's on EG. You bet that if any top tier korean who's better than HuK decided to join EG they'd be getting way more dough. I bet against that unless it's MVP. HuK doesn't get paid only because he is a good player (maybe the best foreigner by the way) but also because he is a fan favorite, a NA player (better for EG sponsors) and other reasons.
how i know? hehe. word gets around.!
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Alot of Huk fanboys here..... No one willing to draw up their own conclusions or are you all quiete happy with Huk's default template?
Lemmings
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51480 Posts
Still don't know why this thread keeps getting bumped... Was ages ago dicussion which is a 50-50 point of either you agree or disagree with certain point clearly doesn't need revisiting every couple of weeks t.t
Put a poll on OP or close the thread!
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On December 17 2011 04:59 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 04:51 Shaok wrote:
Pro gamers complaining about being paid less than casters?
The current casters do a lot more work and put themselves out there much more often. They do not just sit there and practice for hours on end in the hidden gaming scene. They are what we would call Celebrities in the eSports world.
If you want to be equal with them and praised do something about it.
Make a show, stream more and don't just listen to random korean music. Interact with your fans and promote yourself. If you want to be paid more be worth more. But this is exactly the core problem. Players should dedicate themselves to training and strengthening their game, at least in my opinion.
ya i think you both sum it up pretty nicely. personally i care much less for making money, or PR, or fame rather than spending my time like you said, on practicing and playing this game trying to earn money through skill
i think casters also get generally more paid because there are very few casters out there, while on the other hand if u look at players, there are like 100 times more of them.
so tournament organisators obviously want, the best players and the best casters. but since there are so few casters out there, these are much harder to grab than great players.
and because there are so few good casters out there, they can pretty much ask for a shitload of money from the tournaments for them to actually cast it.
while for players its pretty easy to convince them to play their tournaments. they arent getting paid by going there as working. they go to these events as players for a chance to grab money.
when you watch football, theres not a whole lot of explaining needed to do by the casters. the viewers pretty much can see whats going on with their own eyes and be amazed by the players and teams.
but in sc2, since this game is alot more complex than football or any other sport, the caster role is suddenly alot more important. the viewers in general prefer great casters casting good players rather than good casters casting great players for this reason.
when you think about it it makes complete sense that the casters make alot more money than the players in general. weather its ideal or not is a different story.
this down here is my general thought on how to equalize the money distribution between players and casters, please keep in mind i dont have an opinion if players make too little money, or if casters make too much money. in my eyes you get as much money as you deserve, if you chose to be a progamer you should have seen it coming not making alot of money
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this is whats needed for casters to make less money. we need to get alot more casters, and better ones. we need competition between the casters. right now we sit with a very few amount of top tier casters, a handful of decent casters, and then im sure theres many not so good casters out there, or at least not famous.
the more top tier casters we have, the tables will turn, and tournament orgas will look for the cheapest possible top tier casters. and when this goes on naturally the money the casters make will only decrease.
and how can we up players salary? well individually a player get more money the more content, commercial he does, along with winning tournaments.
so people watch their streams, check out the sponsors the players shutout to, watch their interviews and check out all content they provide. request tournaments to bring more spotlight and cameras on the players rather than the casters. just in general be alot more supportive of the players and take your eyes on them.
you need to demonstrate a reason for sponsors, teams and tournament orgas why players have so high value. nobody is gonna pay anyone more just because "they work harder", they need to know work is paying off. sponsors need to see. "oh shit this team in this game is bringing alot of money". if this keeps going eventually players get higher salery and possibly individual sponsors
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On January 05 2012 00:16 Naniwa wrote:
casters get paid way more than the best players.. WAY more thats all ill say :X
HuK is supposedly making $60-80k a year. If Tastosis would make WAY more than him they would be at what $80-120k a year in salary from GOM? I strongly doubt it.
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On January 05 2012 02:33 Longshank wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 00:16 Naniwa wrote:
casters get paid way more than the best players.. WAY more thats all ill say :X HuK is supposedly making $60-80k a year. If Tastosis would make WAY more than him they would be at what $80-120k a year in salary from GOM? I strongly doubt it.
Rumor is that HuK is making over double that.
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I agree with HuK to an extent.
I believe that their are pretty incompetent casters, e.g HDstarcraft, Husky
That literally just say whats happening on the screen, and not analyze the game or tactics.
However, there are one or two casters that exist right now who deserve to be at the spot their in.
Artosis is the best we have right now, Dapollo isn't too bad either.
Watching HDstarcraft makes me cringe sometimes, I usually put on mute because It drives me crazy the things he says. Its so obvious. "He's making a factory", thanks for letting me know that, if I was blind then that would have been very helpful. While Artosis for example would say "He's making a factory, this could lead to "X" things; 1:1:1, ect.". In my honest opinion, no offense to him either, I don't think HDstarcraft deserves the rep and views on youtube he has, but thats mainly opinion based.
Yes there are a lot of casters that are incompetent and are just kinda hosts...
however I feel like theres a place for these people.
Pair a Host with an Analytical commentator.
e.g IdrA;DjWheat, Artosis/Tasteless, and so fourth.
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Totalbiscuit and Slasher are totally wrong, but I guess everyone wants to be famous even if they aren't good at anything.
Guess we'd probably pay attention to your opinion if you didn't open up by being a colossal fuckwit about it
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this is the most pointless argument of all time.
it makes sense to have a commentary team consisting of an analytical caster and a more articulate and confident experienced caster, as this will cater for both the newbie and more experienced audience.
but the bottom line is that everyone has a chance of being a caster. if they're not successful at being a caster, it's because they're a f***ing terrible caster and noone wants to watch them... the popularity figures speak for themselves, do they not?
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On January 05 2012 00:13 Lonyo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 22:37 Derez wrote:
What a pointless debate.
You can't be a caster and a player professionally at the same time. Time constraints don't allow it, as quite prominent people in this community have shown.
Will we see professional players transition into casting? Sure. They'll be just as good/bad at it as our current casters, most of whom were players at some point also.
(Huk mentioning casters being overpaid is kinda funny tho.) You can be good at the game though. A masters player will typically have a higher understanding than someone who is gold (f.ex Bitter/Rotterdam/Orb). If they bring back 12 weeks, that will give people like Bitter even more insight into how players think when they play (since that was one of the major elements of the whole series). But ignoring the actual commentary itself anyway, camera control and game awareness is more important than what a caster says. If they are talking crap, I can just tune out or mute them, but if they aren't showing me what's going on in the game, either through use of more tabs tan just Production, or through poor camera control/screen use, then they are pretty worthless. Too many casters say "his economy is good/bad/etc", but they don't show the tab so they don't actually know. Analytical or play by play doesn't matter if you are just making stuff up.
Is there a reason you decide to randomly spew false information? You make yourself look really dumb when you say things like "someone who is gold (f.ex Bitter/Rotterdam/Orb)" when rotterdam is a well-known grandmaster player on EU and I've been masters (as random no less) since the day master league was added to the game.... As for Bitter I'm pretty certain he's masters though I haven't really followed
edit: nevermind he apparently just worded his sentence incorrectly.
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On January 05 2012 07:26 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 00:13 Lonyo wrote:On January 04 2012 22:37 Derez wrote:
What a pointless debate.
You can't be a caster and a player professionally at the same time. Time constraints don't allow it, as quite prominent people in this community have shown.
Will we see professional players transition into casting? Sure. They'll be just as good/bad at it as our current casters, most of whom were players at some point also.
(Huk mentioning casters being overpaid is kinda funny tho.) You can be good at the game though. A masters player will typically have a higher understanding than someone who is gold (f.ex Bitter/Rotterdam/Orb). If they bring back 12 weeks, that will give people like Bitter even more insight into how players think when they play (since that was one of the major elements of the whole series). But ignoring the actual commentary itself anyway, camera control and game awareness is more important than what a caster says. If they are talking crap, I can just tune out or mute them, but if they aren't showing me what's going on in the game, either through use of more tabs tan just Production, or through poor camera control/screen use, then they are pretty worthless. Too many casters say "his economy is good/bad/etc", but they don't show the tab so they don't actually know. Analytical or play by play doesn't matter if you are just making stuff up. Is there a reason you decide to randomly spew false information? You make yourself look really stupid when you say things like "someone who is gold (f.ex Bitter/Rotterdam/Orb)" when rotterdam is a well-known grandmaster player on EU and I've been masters (as random no less) since the day master league was added to the game...
i think he just worded that terribly actually. i read that as...
"A masters player (f.ex Bitter/Rotterdam/Orb) will typically have a higher understanding than someone who is gold"
...even though that's not what was typed. might be wrong though....
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Well I think both sides are right ti an extent. My idea is that there should be one analytical caster and one with a more play by play means of casting. The play by play guy can announce things happening with a well spoken voice and create humor during the lull of a game and give general humanity to the very methodical and deep game that is sc2. Whereas the second caster does the more heavy analysis of both players. This works well because too much analysis is hard for spectators to hear sometimes. I'm a caster myself and I bounce back and forth between the two roles and play at a masters level. I think to be a really good analytical type you need tohave played this game on a really high level (preferably pro) but to do the play by play? A darn good voice, personality and at least high-diamond to understand most basics to commentate accurately.
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i think we can all just agree that huk is underpaid
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On January 05 2012 01:24 MorroW wrote:
i think casters also get generally more paid because there are very few casters out there, while on the other hand if u look at players, there are like 100 times more of them.
so tournament organisators obviously want, the best players and the best casters. but since there are so few casters out there, these are much harder to grab than great players.
and because there are so few good casters out there, they can pretty much ask for a shitload of money from the tournaments for them to actually cast it.
This makes a lot of sense. Supply and Demand.
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On January 05 2012 00:45 LF9 wrote:
Totalbiscuit and Slasher are totally wrong, but I guess everyone wants to be famous even if they aren't good at anything. Tasteless, Artosis, and to a lesser extent, Day9 (he tries too hard and it gets annoying) are honestly the ONLY good casters in the English speaking/foreigner scene, with no exceptions (no disrespect to DJwheat, mad respect good friend and all). The deal is, if this shit is going to be considered a "sport", and players are going to all these tournaments, there isn't THAT much prize money to go around, and even if you place in the money in EVERY tournament you go to, you can't get rich off it and you can barely live off it. You need fame and face + name recognition, and that is how this "sport" will evolve. People like Tiger Woods made all that money from sponsorship and endorsement; prize purses were just gravy. The point is, the ONLY faces we should be seeing during a SC2 match are those of the two players, and we should be seeing them often. I don't honestly WANT to see that casters. I don't even want to know what they look like. Watch pro Football. Baseball. Basketball. They show the game the entire time, closeups of the players, stuff like that. They don't cut to the guys in the booth all the time and show them. They do interviews and stuff BEFORE and AFTER the game, but while shit's going down, it's the players' time in the spotlight, it's their time to play, show off what they can do, and BE SEEN. If the casters face is shown at all, it should be during an interview with the winner or something, but honestly, they need to be in a back room somewhere with sound controls, with the camera crew up front getting footage of the players faces, hands, screens, split-screens of both players facial expressions during crucial moments and big battles, all the goods spliced in with the actual game going on. THAT is how a cast of this game needs to go. If I watch a VoD, THAT is what I want to see.
By the way, I forget which tournament did it, but when Artosis and Tasteless were commentating, and after EVERY GAME they pan over to a bunch of fags sitting on a couch, including a ridiculously ugly fat dude in a FUCKING TOP HAT and they just talked for no reason about the game was literally the dumbest idea I have EVER seen in my life. God, that was blood-boiling. I couldn't bear to watch it, it was so clearly forced, so dumb, so fucking ANNOYING. The hilarious part was that Tasteless had to pretend he was so interested to hear "what our friends over on the couch have to say!". Jesus H. Christ, shoot me if that ever happens again. Oh, and top hat guy? Fuck you.
Are you fucking stupid or something? TB as well as the other english speaking casters are part of why the game is what it is. You clearly have not a single brain cell in your head or you would realize that cause they do a brilliant job at what they do. You're just some butthurt Tastosis fan who for some reason deems everyone else as trash. Well please get off your elitist high horse an come back to earth cause you're not as great as you think. These people do more for Esports as a whole then you ever will or can even dream of.
User was temp banned for this post.
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EPT
