EPTThe Analytical Caster - A Twitter Story - Page 21
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Keep the discussion civil, please. | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On January 05 2012 09:12 EnderCraft wrote: While I do agree that the income gap between casters and players should be bridged, I do not think day9 is a phony... Do yourself a favor and watch day9 daily #100. Esports is day9's passion, and it's definitely genuine. You'll understand once you watch that daily  Yeah Day9's probably one of the most genuine casters. Sure he fakes excitement sometimes but not as much as most of the other casters when there are boring games. Hell I remember him casting a long game mostly talking about how boring it was - the whole time it was happening. FFS we've all seen the good old "I'm so excited I have nerdchills" right before a game between 2 no-names. | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
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Goibon
New Zealand8185 Posts
Hell, if i had it my way the players would do all the casting and thus get all the money. The very idea that casters are flown out from other countries to cast events.... that's revolting to me. That money should be going to the people who are actually competing in the tournaments for my entertainments. This makes me so mad. I pay to see people play starcraft. I don't pay for this cult of personality caster bullshit. That all this money is going to people who aren't professional players, that's hurting ESPORTS. | ||
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steff
United Kingdom40 Posts
To hear people who are paid a salary by a pro team to play a computer game and do what they love moaning about how much money they are making shows how out of touch and spoiled some of you have become. I remember winning a large event about 9 years ago and my take home split 8 ways was £250, how much did you make last year HuK ? are you out on the street begging in-between GSL's to put a roof over your head ? I think not. Just remember all of you we are playing computer games and some are making enough out of it (by some it seems like there are quite a few pro players making enough not to need to actually work), remember how much E-sports has struggled to and continues to be taken seriously and have some respect for those that went before and the privileged position you sit in. As for the caster vs player argument, there is simply a much smaller "capable" (and some not :tophat caster pool, this means your marquee casters are obviously going to make more money. As they can only cast so many tournaments and can only be in so many places so given this is a product driven market they are going to go where they are best paid and good on them. If its that easy and you're so bent out of shape about it why dont you all try to turn your hand to casting ? or would that be like admitting that HIGH level casting isnt something everyone can do?In essence be happy you get to play COMPUTER GAMES and make money you bunch of ungrateful idiots, ill happily swap my day job with any of you :p | ||
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magnaflow
Canada1521 Posts
Everyone is doing what they want to be doing and are getting paid what people think they are worth. This isn't the NFL/MLB/NHL and it never will be. So put up with it or GTFO. Players and casters whould be gratefull for what they are paid. Whether it's 20k in prize money, or 20k for a job well done. This could all be over in a couple of years, what will you do then? Enjoy the ride while it lasts it isn't going to go on forever. Eventuall the next big game will come out and the people who provide the money for everyone to get paid is going to move on. Don't say you think you're underpaid becasue you are not. People do much harder jobs for much less. People are just being greedy. Again enjoy it while it lasts, you guys have a job, not a career | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
On January 05 2012 09:47 Goibon wrote: I wouldn't lose any sleep if all the casters incomes were slashed to reflect their true value, and that money was re directed into the players. Hell, if i had it my way the players would do all the casting and thus get all the money. The very idea that casters are flown out from other countries to cast events.... that's revolting to me. That money should be going to the people who are actually competing in the tournaments for my entertainments. This makes me so mad. I pay to see people play starcraft. I don't pay for this cult of personality caster bullshit. That all this money is going to people who aren't professional players, that's hurting ESPORTS. Sounds good, except then the players don't get paid anywhere near as much because a fraction of the people actually watch due to lackluster presentation and serious communication problems. You are in a minority that will watch Starcraft without professional commentary. Most players do not have the necessary skills to properly commentate a game, that takes a lot of practice and certain skills which everyday people don't possess. A tiny selection of players have demonstrated their ability to commentate effectively, most have not. There is also no way it would actually work outside of unusual circumstances like HSC. But hey, if you want to wreck eSports as we know it by slashing the audience down due to a complete lack of approachability and sabotage efforts to bring new fans into the scene, all of which causes the prizepools to be so big for the players in the first place then by all means, continue to find the current state of affairs sickening. Casters have done more for this game than most either seem to realise or care to admit and they tend to be the ones who get shit on the most for their work. | ||
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JOJOsc2news
3000 Posts
On January 05 2012 11:24 TotalBiscuit wrote: Sounds good, except then the players don't get paid anywhere near as much because a fraction of the people actually watch due to lackluster presentation and serious communication problems. You are in a minority that will watch Starcraft without professional commentary. Most players do not have the necessary skills to properly commentate a game, that takes a lot of practice and certain skills which everyday people don't possess. A tiny selection of players have demonstrated their ability to commentate effectively, most have not. There is also no way it would actually work outside of unusual circumstances like HSC. But hey, if you want to wreck eSports as we know it by slashing the audience down due to a complete lack of approachability and sabotage efforts to bring new fans into the scene, all of which causes the prizepools to be so big for the players in the first place then by all means, continue to find the current state of affairs sickening. Casters have done more for this game than most either seem to realise or care to admit and they tend to be the ones who get shit on the most for their work. Casters are good and 100% necessary. Hell, if it wasn't for Husky a while back I wouldn't have anything to do with the StarCraft community. A caster needs to bring a certain skill set and personality to the table that most pro-gamers don't have and don't need to have. The amount of emotional engagement and excitement often conveyed by the casters (Koreans screaming, Husky losing his voice and talking 400 words per minute :D etc.) is what makes an outstanding game a moment and memory you will never forget (and it gets people who are new to the scene interested). However, I think in the case of Day[9] there has developed a kind of cult of personality that makes it hard to even be slightly critical because you will get bashed by fanboys. I think it even went to Day[9]'s head. I love the guy and I still watch all the dailies but I remember the good ol'days where he wouldn't miss a major part of analysis because he is talking about himself. YET - what he has done and is continuing to do for the community is amazing and it's definitely worth paying him and any other caster to go abroad and cast a tourney! I hope I could convey my point clearly. Not sure. Edit: grammatical stuff here and there. given up now. it's stayin' like this. | ||
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steff
United Kingdom40 Posts
It would be wise not to confuse a rabid world of warcraft fanbase for actually being a worthwhile good added value caster, most forum goers I know (from various areas) would rather mute the stream than listen to something you cast. Good casters add a lot of value to Sc2 but I agree the crap casters could get paid a whole lot less and have it distributed amongst the players, the less we reward the bottom tier of casters the better the entire experience will become for us all. | ||
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SeraKuDA
Canada343 Posts
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Linwelin
Ireland7554 Posts
On January 05 2012 11:43 steff wrote: Its a shame totalbiscuit is "championing" the caster and not some decent caster because if him being silver and not knowing anything about the games hes casting didn't ruin esports taking some money away from casters certainly wont either. It would be wise not to confuse a rabid world of warcraft fanbase for actually being a worthwhile good added value caster, most forum goers I know (from various areas) would rather mute the stream than listen to something you cast. Good casters add a lot of value to Sc2 but I agree the crap casters could get paid a whole lot less and have it distributed amongst the players, the less we reward the bottom tier of casters the better the entire experience will become for us all. TB is not doing WoW anymore, try again | ||
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steff
United Kingdom40 Posts
On January 05 2012 11:50 Linwelin wrote: TB is not doing WoW anymore, try again If he didnt have the startup fanbase from wow do you really think a silver level caster who doesn't know anything about the game and shouts in an over emphasised English accent would have made it ? I mean REALLY ? anyway its not really relevant to what I was saying, fact is good casters add a huge value to tournaments, but there are a huge amount of bad casters raking in cash who cant even be bothered to learn the game to a decent level. Odd how someone like TLO could just step in and be a huge improvement over Totalbiscuit with hardly any casting experience wasn't it ?  | ||
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JOJOsc2news
3000 Posts
On January 05 2012 11:43 steff wrote: Its a shame totalbiscuit is "championing" the caster and not some decent caster because if him being silver and not knowing anything about the games hes casting didn't ruin esports taking some money away from casters certainly wont either. It would be wise not to confuse a rabid world of warcraft fanbase for actually being a worthwhile good added value caster, most forum goers I know (from various areas) would rather mute the stream than listen to something you cast. Good casters add a lot of value to Sc2 but I agree the crap casters could get paid a whole lot less and have it distributed amongst the players, the less we reward the bottom tier of casters the better the entire experience will become for us all. Did you not read the awesome bar saying "Keep the discussion civil, please."? You are in Bronze league of respectful communication. I can't even find the will to care about what you said just because of the way you said it. But maybe that's just because I "don't know anything" + Show Spoiler + harsh! | ||
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Linwelin
Ireland7554 Posts
On January 05 2012 11:53 steff wrote: If he didnt have the startup fanbase from wow do you really think a silver level caster who doesn't know anything about the game and shouts in an over emphasised English accent would have made it ? I mean REALLY ? anyway its not really relevant to what I was saying, fact is good casters add a huge value to tournaments, but there are a huge amount of bad casters raking in cash who cant even be bothered to learn the game to a decent level. Odd how someone like TLO could just step in and be a huge improvement over Totalbiscuit with hardly any casting experience wasn't it ? TB's main audience was not from WoW but from all his other games coverage. As I said, try again Anyway, this is not the bash TB thread so if you don't have anything else to say you can stop posting | ||
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steff
United Kingdom40 Posts
On January 05 2012 11:55 JOJOsc2news wrote: Did you not read the awesome bar saying "Keep the discussion civil, please."? You are in Bronze league of respectful communication. I can't even find the will to care about what you said just because of the way you said it but maybe it's just because I "don't know anything" That was civil, its like the age old problem of a friend that smells how else can you tell them they smell that isnt going to hurt their feelings you can be as nice as possible but the message is whats hurtful and the message here is what hurts not the way its constructed. As they say the truth hurts and for everyone one of you fanboys there is an equal number who will mute any stream he casts. | ||
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lisward
Singapore959 Posts
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steff
United Kingdom40 Posts
On January 05 2012 11:56 Linwelin wrote: TB's main audience was not from WoW but from all his other games coverage. As I said, try again Anyway, this is not the bash TB thread so if you don't have anything else to say you can stop posting Do you have an exact breakdown of where the audience came from ? no you don't so its probably wise to stop posting baseless straw men here, the point isnt overly where the fanbase came from but the fact that he had one from previous games coming into sc2, that in itself isnt a bad thing, but when hes getting high level gigs because of it and mostly ruining them it becomes a problem for all bar that now small percentage who are carryover fans. Indeed its not, but you seemingly cannot critique anyone on TL without rabid fanboys trying to straw man it up and divert it away from the actual point. Which for the 4th time is, Good casters make tournaments if you're going to take money away from anyone take it away from the bad ones. | ||
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JOJOsc2news
3000 Posts
do you really think a silver level caster who doesn't know anything about the game and shouts in an over emphasised English accent would have made it So these aren't insulting assumptions? For the sake of this thread and my nerves I will say that again without a question mark. I don't want to encourage more posts because we will not come to any fruitful result. So here we go: These aren't insulting assumptions! + Show Spoiler + they are | ||
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steff
United Kingdom40 Posts
On January 05 2012 12:03 JOJOsc2news wrote: So these aren't insulting assumptions? For the sake of this thread and my nerves I will say that again without a question mark. I don't want to encourage more posts because we will not come to any fruitful result. So here we go: These aren't insulting assumptions! + Show Spoiler + they are no those are called facts they are different to assumptions, the assumption is on your part that he would have made it without a carry over fan base from other games. | ||
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JOJOsc2news
3000 Posts
On January 05 2012 12:04 steff wrote: no those are called facts they are different to assumptions, the assumption is on your part that he would have made it without a carry over fan base from other games. Oh no! I am weak. I did post again. they are different to assumptions, the assumption is on your part that he would have made it without a carry over fan base from other games. I never said that! You are confusing me with the other guy. Your assumptions however: 1. TB doesn't know anything about SC2 2. Couldn't have become a caster without previous fanbase 3. Overemphasizes his accent /// No more comment from me on this. | ||
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