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On November 16 2011 11:44 figq wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 11:26 Oktyabr wrote:On November 16 2011 11:17 hawthwang wrote:
For people who says that Coca can go to another team, he can't, he just caused a scandal that hasn't happened once in a while, which team will accept him? Foreigner teams, because they don't mind about this type of behavior that much. But Coca obviously took this punishment like a man. He's willing to pay this price to stay on Slayers. On November 16 2011 11:24 1Eris1 wrote:
Hmm. I'm curious, why the hell did Coca not have practice partners available? Shit, the kid was on his first run into Code S, you'd think he'd get preference.
And I mean MMA had two zergs in his group, wouldn't it have been good for them to practice? -.- It is actually his second run, but MMA and co were at another event. He could still have hooked up customs with other ex Zenex people instead. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ESV_TV_Korean_Weekly/Weekly_15His route ahead showed that he's in for a bunch of Code B terrans, except for Taeja. He can't honestly consider that real practice either. I honestly doubt that it was his intent to use this tournament for vT practice. What was his intent then? Do you realize that he could have just forfeited the match without playing and without sending replays, and Byun would have advanced anyway with no trouble for anyone. I don't see the intent then. The intent was clearly to play 3 games vs Byun in a tournament environment, because Byun is Terran and Coca needed that ZvT practice before his all-Terran GSL group, just as he says in chat.
So if this were a High school football televised local tournament for a $100 trophy and the coach says during half-time, "I'll let them win, the other coach and I go way back and besides we need the practice" and with a 50 pt lead their team leaves the pitch. You are okay with this...
However, I'm sure the spectators, parents and the charity would be having raging fits and with pitchforks demand the coaches resignation... And be a huge national news.
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What Byun/Coca did was hardly bad compared to real match fixing; GOMTV just wants to show how anti-matchfixing they are by making an example out of them. I don't blame GOMTV at all given how seriously the sAvior scandal ended up becoming.
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I don't really have a problem with people match fixing as long as there is no gambling money involved. It would be classier to not say anything or just to not play the matches. The difference between this and Idra leaving GSL after taking part in the group selection ceremony, giving a free win to someone in his group really isn't that big. Or any of the players in NASL season 1 who missed one of their matches because they were sick or were busy in other tournaments. Of course it is sad if one of the players gives a walkover to the other player late in a tournament and we don't get to see the games, but I don't think the players should get punished for it.
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ALL they wanted was to show MOAR games for the fans that' all.
NO need to take it serious. Boys will be Boys.
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On November 16 2011 12:03 Voltaire wrote:
What Byun/Coca did was hardly bad compared to real match fixing; GOMTV just wants to show how anti-matchfixing they are by making an example out of them. I don't blame GOMTV at all given how seriously the sAvior scandal ended up becoming.
Funny you say that, considering GomTV hasn't announced anything nor taken any action so far.
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Yeah, I kind of feel bad for them, I dont think this is that big of a deal, I assume that Coca wasn't thinking this online tournament was that big of deal even though it did have a spot available.
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On November 16 2011 12:15 RusHXceL wrote:
ALL they wanted was to show MOAR games for the fans that' all.
NO need to take it serious. Boys will be Boys.
So we are bad for expecting professional behavior out of boys to play to their best ability under 19.
The management of Prime and SlayerS are terrible people to expect such terrible responsibility from children so young as 17 and 18!!!
Everyone knows that young People cannot be trusted or tasked with such a duty of playing properly IN A COMPUTER GAME!!
*eye twitch*
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On November 16 2011 12:15 RusHXceL wrote:
ALL they wanted was to show MOAR games for the fans that' all.
NO need to take it serious. Boys will be Boys.
Well that would be ok if it wasn't a Professional Tournament.
This is their job and they fucked up, it's that easy.
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Well, thank you for bringing this to light. I was hoping we would have learned from the BW match fixing, but it seems this will still be a problem we need to deal with.
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It's ok guys. No money was involved.
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This particular instance is a bit more like you see in motorsports. Where the team tells a driver to give up the race to his teammate for points/manufactures title etcetera. Well not perfectly analogous, this particular instance reminds me a bit of that. Less true, nefarious match fixing for money.
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This is insane. I can believe that they would do this but i can't believe that they did it publicly and in a chat that would be broadcast to the world. Bonehead move. Takes away from our legitimacy as a community. I don't like it at all.
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On November 16 2011 12:07 DrainX wrote:
I don't really have a problem with people match fixing as long as there is no gambling money involved. It would be classier to not say anything or just to not play the matches. The difference between this and Idra leaving GSL after taking part in the group selection ceremony, giving a free win to someone in his group really isn't that big. Or any of the players in NASL season 1 who missed one of their matches because they were sick or were busy in other tournaments. Of course it is sad if one of the players gives a walkover to the other player late in a tournament and we don't get to see the games, but I don't think the players should get punished for it.
How are games fun when you know people aren't trying their best and outcomes are decided beforehand such that you aren't seeing the upper echelon of play? Prime example is the All star's from GOM. It had a fun premise but once games started being thrown it became stale quick (not including the offrace games).
That being said, the punishment in this particular instance is too harsh, and it is probably so that there aren't more thrown games. I mean come on, Nestea throwing that game v HuK, even if not match fixing intentional, completely ruined the day yesterday.
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On November 16 2011 12:07 DrainX wrote:
I don't really have a problem with people match fixing as long as there is no gambling money involved. It would be classier to not say anything or just to not play the matches. The difference between this and Idra leaving GSL after taking part in the group selection ceremony, giving a free win to someone in his group really isn't that big. Or any of the players in NASL season 1 who missed one of their matches because they were sick or were busy in other tournaments. Of course it is sad if one of the players gives a walkover to the other player late in a tournament and we don't get to see the games, but I don't think the players should get punished for it.
It always disgusts me that every time someone does something awful, whether it be sexual harassing people, scamming people out of money, or match fixing whatever, that all these people come out of the woodwork to defend them.
What you are saying is that it isn't the intention that matter, it is the result of the action that matters. It has been proven many times that this outlook is wrong, the classic philosophical scenario being as follows:
Imagine a man is helping his young son shower, and he accidentally drops the soap on the shower floor and his son slips on it and dies. Now imagine that another man wants to kill his young son while showering him and purposely drops the soap on the floor so he will slip and then his son slips on it and dies. Now assuming you knew the intentions of both men and the whole story, should one, both or neither be punished?
It is not obvious?
IdrA didn't leave the GSL to give free wins to anyone, and the GSL could have replaced him, they choose not to. These two purposely fixed matches to give free wins. Both resulted in people getting free wins, but it is indeed the intentions that matter. These two intended to cheat. And cheating is wrong.
There can be no logically sound and valid defense of their actions.
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On November 16 2011 14:03 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 12:07 DrainX wrote:
I don't really have a problem with people match fixing as long as there is no gambling money involved. It would be classier to not say anything or just to not play the matches. The difference between this and Idra leaving GSL after taking part in the group selection ceremony, giving a free win to someone in his group really isn't that big. Or any of the players in NASL season 1 who missed one of their matches because they were sick or were busy in other tournaments. Of course it is sad if one of the players gives a walkover to the other player late in a tournament and we don't get to see the games, but I don't think the players should get punished for it. It always disgusts me that every time someone does something awful, whether it be sexual harassing people, scamming people out of money, or match fixing whatever, that all these people come out of the woodwork to defend them. What you are saying is that it isn't the intention that matter, it is the result of the action that matters. It has been proven many times that this outlook is wrong, the classic philosophical scenario being as follows: Imagine a man is helping his young son shower, and he drops the soap on in the shower floor and his son slips on it and dies. Now imagine that another man wants to kill his young son while showering him and purposely drops the soap on the floor so he will slip and then his son slips on it and dies. Now assuming you knew the intentions of both men and the whole story, should one, both or neither be punished? It is not obvious? IdrA left the GSL not to give free wins to anyone, and the GSL could have replaced him, they choose not to. These two purposely fixed matches to give free wins. The result ended up in people getting free wins, but it is indeed the intentions that matter. They intended to cheat. And cheating is wrong.
EDIT: Misread it.
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On November 16 2011 13:49 iMYoonA wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 12:07 DrainX wrote:
I don't really have a problem with people match fixing as long as there is no gambling money involved. It would be classier to not say anything or just to not play the matches. The difference between this and Idra leaving GSL after taking part in the group selection ceremony, giving a free win to someone in his group really isn't that big. Or any of the players in NASL season 1 who missed one of their matches because they were sick or were busy in other tournaments. Of course it is sad if one of the players gives a walkover to the other player late in a tournament and we don't get to see the games, but I don't think the players should get punished for it. How are games fun when you know people aren't trying their best and outcomes are decided beforehand such that you aren't seeing the upper echelon of play? Prime example is the All star's from GOM. It had a fun premise but once games started being thrown it became stale quick (not including the offrace games). That being said, the punishment in this particular instance is too harsh, and it is probably so that there aren't more thrown games. I mean come on, Nestea throwing that game v HuK, even if not match fixing intentional, completely ruined the day yesterday.
But if you watched the three games they played, both players tried their best in all three of them, and CoCa just wanted another match to practice in a high stress environment. He wasn't deliberately throwing a game, he just allowed Byun "to win" in order to get another game.
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Overblown situation, this is not max fixing to the same degree as savior or any of the others. These people threw a small online tournament and if anyone should give them the disciplines it should be GOM and not the teams. I'm actually disappointed in Slayers for the first time since they were founded on SC2. At least give the kids a freaking warning for Christ's sake.
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This reminds me of a story in our local paper today about a guy who stole some professional lobster pots from a secure fishing gear yard then went 1km down the road in the most busiest part of the town, put them in a protected marine sanctuary during the lobster off season.
Almost comical, as if they thought this was just some kind of fun in house tourny for who buys dinner or something; does seem a little overblown but it leaves the teams no choice, its just flat out unacceptable.
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On November 16 2011 14:35 LaGTTJack wrote:
Overblown situation, this is not max fixing to the same degree as savior or any of the others. These people threw a small online tournament and if anyone should give them the disciplines it should be GOM and not the teams. I'm actually disappointed in Slayers for the first time since they were founded on SC2. At least give the kids a freaking warning for Christ's sake.
As if the savior fiasco wasn't big enough. I think both Prime and SlayerS sent a strong message to the community that they have zero tolerance of cheating by their players regardless of intent or level. I think it is a step in the right direction.
A Prime/SlayerS player always plays their best.
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I didn't see the big deal to be honest, and CoCa is my favorite player. It seemed generous that he would give the chance to be in code A to his friend, since if he had won then he would essentially receive nothing and a player that could actually use it would advance and thus become a better player (theoretically). That and CoCa would get some more ZvT practice in a tournament like setting.
A lot of my friends agreed, thus I determined it's a Korean thing about respect and honor and whatnot.
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EPT
