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On November 15 2011 14:09 Flameling wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:07 VPCursed wrote:On November 15 2011 14:05 Flameling wrote:On November 15 2011 13:41 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Banning the players permanently, or kicking the player entirely is too extreme imo. Temporary punishment would be more reasonable. This was stupid and disrespectful to the viewers, but it doesn't sound like any serious match fixing. Just two kids fucking around. Kespa would like a word with you... you seriously cant compare the incident with what happened in BW. you always seem to be on my ass, but w/e. This "match-fixing" might not be to the same extent as the ones that occured in BW, but match-fixing is match-fixing.
Except it isn't match-fixing because the result wasn't a predetermination between both players with a third-party paying them to fix the result. It was spontaneous and stupid but that is it. Coca can be reprimanded for his actions but the way Mr. Chae and SlayerS are going about it is close to destroying his career. Public opinion in Korea is especially harsh and I'm sure some people won't be happy until CoCa is forced to never be able to play SC2 professionally again.
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If I was Mr. Chae I would immediately pull all Code A seeds from these various smaller tournaments.
For a lot of these korean kids getting to Code A/S is the reason they play. The money is too big a temptation not to cheat.
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On November 15 2011 14:04 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:00 Futarchy wrote:
By the way, if losing a match on purpose without more is is equivalent to match fixing, then what about all those people who forfeited games at MLG to get around the advantages they have of an extended series? Those people are hailed as heroes every MLG but the basic act itself (purposely losing) is the same. Surely match fixing cannot just be the act of intentionally losing a game, some kind of bad intention has to accompany that act.
In this case, I think it is fair that the intention of the players was not to let Byun through to the next round. Seems like just two friends wanting to play another game. (Perhaps Coca thought Byun made a silly mistake that game and wanted a fair fight? Wouldn't that be analogous to players forfeiting games in MLG?) You can´t really compare foreigners with koreans in this case. Koreans have a legit scene, they have fought for e sports to be accepted in their country. Its understandable that they don´t want e sports to be seen as a fake competition where players can just throw away matches and not play for real. Foreigners don´t care that much but eventually I think we will have to care if we want this **** to be seen as a real competition and not play pretend.(Not that I am saying the reaction by korean teams was excellent, but please try to understand that nothing hurts more a competition than players not taking it seriously, which is what koreans don´t want, which is a fair point)
I think this is a pretty fair explanation. I'm a bit disturbed by how so many people in this thread just want to treat this as a joke. Maybe the punishment could have been lighter, but I can completely understand if it's not. If you're trying to establish a legitimate scene with players that actually live up to being a "professional", you can't have these same players blatantly disrespecting the game no matter how small the case is.
If Coca and Byun wanted to go to a third game and had done so more discreetly, then this wouldn't be as big an issue. But when the people who are in a position of authority see this kind of conduct in broad daylight, how can they NOT react to it if they still want to be taken seriously? They can't just turn a blind eye saying, "Well I think they were just fooling around," or else every other incident from then on would be subject to opinion rather than regulation.
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Considering that game 2 obviously was thrown and Coca had some really weird decisions in game 3 it's not weird to see the consequences. I feel like the consequences justifiable, they aren't over-reacting nor under-reacting. Throwing games in any tournaments will shed negative light at programers, especially after what happened in BW.
An overreaction would be to kick them off the teams and having GOM ban them from entering in the future. Now Coca just has to start from the ground up in a couple of months with a tarnished reputation.
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On November 15 2011 13:57 weeA wrote:and milkies isnt here anymore 
Thank God !
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Feel like this situation is getting blown out of proportion. Lol @ people saying he should go to jail wtf? Cmon its pretty obvious there was no malicious intent or conspiring behind this. This situation is way closer to that of a person just openly conceding a match for his teammate which has definitely happened before. Stop pretending like its some savior level betting/deceptive match fix scandal. So many drama queens in here.
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On November 15 2011 14:15 Flameling wrote:
I really can't believe some people saying he shouldn't be kicked from tourney's because he's a really good zerg... I mean are some people really that dumb?
Remember, some of this people want Savior to come back and play SC2.
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On November 15 2011 14:13 bigbeau wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:10 karis wrote:On November 15 2011 14:07 HornyHydra wrote:
At this one MLG some player on the team EP basically forfeited some of his games to WhiteRa so he wouldn't have the extended series advantage. This is the same shit, participating in a tournament and not playing your games all the way through. If I remember correctly, the guy brought his workers to the corner of the map and left the game after GGing. How the fuck does CoCa and Byun get so much shit when that guy was fucking praised? Both players threw games and that is by definition match fixing...what I'm saying is that the punishments handed out are too fucking harsh. I'd understand if both players were taken out of GSL and banned for a few seasons, but a life ban is not fucking acceptable. This inconsistency in the enforcement of integrity of the tournaments is really pathetic...and both the teams and tournaments need to rethink this through. ill say this one more time. White-Ra showed up late and MLG fules forced him to forfeit even though White-Ra offered to off-race or play down a game. The player was protesting that fact it was not about the extended series advantage. so please stop comparing the two. Okay, but youre proving his point. The context surrounding the 'match fixing' is extremely important. What you just said disproves the statement 'match fixing is match fixing'. So there should be leniency in this case too because the context wasn't for negative or bad reasons.
sorry i see your point. I only read about the first half of his post.
I think this is akin to showing swastika's in germany. you just dont do it and its expected for the population to freak out about it because of past history.
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Nestea looks at one the young cerebrates (Coca) clamoring/longing for his creep strewn Throne of Drones.
These were his only words for the young challenger.
On November 15 2011 14:11 Clefairy wrote:NesTea's official statement:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/06mQU.jpg) Wtf... Don't they have brains tsk tsk tsk
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On November 15 2011 14:14 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 13:51 SniXSniPe wrote:
Honestly the punishments seem over the top. The BW scandal, was entirely different and involved vast sums of money and much more important matches.
Plus CoCa and Byun are both still quite young to make stupid mistakes--- they obviously didn't realize how big an issue it was, chatting in game about it. Nobody would chat about it if they didn't think it was a big deal... that's not even attempting to hide it. Right, so if Tiger Woods walked out of a Satellite tournementto give his spot to his friend (since he's already) qualified, announcing it on live television in the same manner as in this case, he should have no consequences at all? My pro-golfer friend would totally have a screaming fit... seriously. What they did was so fucking disrespectful it is not even funny. At the very least, forfeit to some shit excuse, at least show you respect the tournament and the work to organise it. I mean, can you imagine all that work of running and organising a contest and a contestant mid-event announces, "I'm going to forfeit so my friend here can advance. I'm going to go now, Peace y'all". Their stunt was a huge slap in the face of the organisers and the sponsors. Any wonder Boxer was mad.
Well for starters, Tiger woods wouldn't compete in a tournament that didn't offer him a fucking thing.
I'm sure the players didn't think what they were doing through. It wasn't some elaborate conspiracy that they thought about, They announced it in chat thinking it was no big deal.. they felt it was just a friendly tournament and they felt the tournament wasn't very serious at all, ESL weekly isn't the GSL or the MLG and im sure any player that plays in it is not taking it very serious at all. The punishment is extremely harsh.
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I liked Coca after his GSL run.
Just lost all my respect.
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TBH as a magic player, I don't see this specific situation as that big a deal, especially because CoCa was already in code S. I can understand them being banned "indefinitely", but CoCa at least will be back once this blows over.
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I'm speechless... another match-fixing bullshit. -_-
If Slayers has any pride, they should ban them from the team. GSL and others teams, too.
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And so Fionn's curse strikes again.
Pitiful that this has to happen. They obviously weren't think of the consequences and I don't really blame them. The punishment had to be had to teach them not to match fix, even in tournaments they're there just for fun.
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This is a pretty big mistake by Coca and Byun. I feel the punishments are deserved completely. While it may well have been a completely kind-hearted gesture, that type of behavior is unprofessional and needs to be addressed for what it was: match fixing. That cannot and should not be tolerated, and i'm glad it's being dealt with.
No, Coca should not be rewarded with finishing his code s run this season. I'm glad the teams handled things the way they have so far. Chances are both players will be back at one point or another if they work hard and earn another chance.
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On November 15 2011 14:18 Jeity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:04 windsupernova wrote:On November 15 2011 14:00 Futarchy wrote:
By the way, if losing a match on purpose without more is is equivalent to match fixing, then what about all those people who forfeited games at MLG to get around the advantages they have of an extended series? Those people are hailed as heroes every MLG but the basic act itself (purposely losing) is the same. Surely match fixing cannot just be the act of intentionally losing a game, some kind of bad intention has to accompany that act.
In this case, I think it is fair that the intention of the players was not to let Byun through to the next round. Seems like just two friends wanting to play another game. (Perhaps Coca thought Byun made a silly mistake that game and wanted a fair fight? Wouldn't that be analogous to players forfeiting games in MLG?) You can´t really compare foreigners with koreans in this case. Koreans have a legit scene, they have fought for e sports to be accepted in their country. Its understandable that they don´t want e sports to be seen as a fake competition where players can just throw away matches and not play for real. Foreigners don´t care that much but eventually I think we will have to care if we want this **** to be seen as a real competition and not play pretend.(Not that I am saying the reaction by korean teams was excellent, but please try to understand that nothing hurts more a competition than players not taking it seriously, which is what koreans don´t want, which is a fair point) I think this is a pretty fair explanation. I'm a bit disturbed by how so many people in this thread just want to treat this as a joke. Maybe the punishment could have been lighter, but I can completely understand if it's not. If you're trying to establish a legitimate scene with players that actually live up to being a "professional", you can't have these same players blatantly disrespecting the game no matter how small the case is. If Coca and Byun wanted to go to a third game and had done so more discreetly, then this wouldn't be as big an issue. But when the people who are in a position of authority see this kind of conduct in broad daylight, how can they NOT react to it if they still want to be taken seriously? They can't just turn a blind eye saying, "Well I think they were just fooling around," or else every other incident from then on would be subject to opinion rather than regulation.
Koreans treat this seriously because they consider this as competitive sports while foreigners consider it as just a game. We have different mindset, and it shows.
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On November 15 2011 14:18 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:14 architecture wrote:
For those who think the punishment was too harsh, you need to think of the Korean scene as a whole.
If this stuff is not cracked down with the utmost strictness, you run the risk of making the whole scene look like a joke. Discrediting the scene and losing viewership will kill SC2. It happened to WC3 in Korea at the start of the game's life. Yeah exactly, Koreans want the game to look like a legit competition. This 2 players made it look like a joke pretend competition. Teams punished them and thats that.
Yup, that's about it.
It's important to note that punishment has to be dealt out to protect both the integrity and legitimacy of Starcraft 2 as well as the ESV Korean weeklies.
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they aren't banned for life, it's likely they can come back after 2-3 months and restart. i think the punishment is well deserved if they did do this
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I think this excessive reaction is good, because it serve as a warning for everyone, that match fixing will not be tolerated.
This case is also a good one to make example of, because it isn't serious. That is right, Coca and Byun will be returning soon enough, and no real harm is done to the sc2 scene. It is perfect case to serve as a warning with no damage done.
If real match fixing happened, not matter how harsh the punishment is, it would deal a huge blow to starcraft 2, so just view this as a positive thing.
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i said on another thread that i thought that this wasn't true, but now i'm convinced of it . this is terrible i love SlayerS and their entire team is just one big ball of fan favorites. this is so sad, they are both so good and apparently are too immature to take care of what they do on a public basis. Man i hope they allow coca back and hope byun is allowed back as well :'(. still as its been said that match fixing is unacceptable yet the two are best friends and don't want to lose spots to each other. I guess things will get ironed out, their will be a bit of screaming and eventually, just like with stephano everything will go back to normal.
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EPT
