EPT1.4.2 Patch Live - Page 47
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blackbrrd
Norway477 Posts
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
He was responding to the poster that seemed to think that a Terran A-moving and hitting T for Stim would annihilate a Protoss microing every part of his army well. Obviously it was ridiculous. Of course this entire thread is conjecture...the patch has only been out for a day and we only have one day's worth of Protoss winning televised matches to base the "new metagame" off of. People just like to argue on the internetz. | ||
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epicdemic
Netherlands137 Posts
On November 10 2011 06:37 Logros wrote: Sieged tanks and banshees would disagree with those sentries trying to FF contain. There's a reason we don't ever see that in pro games. Siege mode is usually timed to finish when the terran arrives at P's base, and some versions of the 1-1-1 don't involve siege mode (for example when the Terran researches cloak), so siege tanks are not a big deal, especially on maps like Xel'Naga Caverns when the sentries are positioned well. 3 gates are enough to warp in sufficient numbers of stalkers to fend of any banshees. Remember that the banshee doesn't have any support from the marines: they are forcefielded. You should see this VOD, it's actually not very hard to hold off if you know how to do this, considering both players are around the same skill level. http://hotkeyit.com/videos/single/stopping_the_terran_1_1_1/ | ||
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Rassy
Netherlands2308 Posts
Dont mind the emp nerve but reducing the shield upgrades and lvl 2 upgrades for toss is a to big improvement for toss Specially the shield upgrade, wich now seems viable as alternative to the armour upgrade i find to strong now | ||
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Scufo
United States136 Posts
On November 10 2011 07:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I think I found your problems. You're supposed to micro your units. And make ghosts and vikings instead of just tier one units against an entire Protoss deathball. You're welcome. My point was, Protoss armies do much better than Terran ones with less-than-superb micro. It's a real problem for Plat-Diamond level players. There's a reason why Terran is the least played race there. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45017 Posts
On November 10 2011 07:37 Rassy wrote: First time i dont like a patch Dont mind the emp nerve but reducing the shield upgrades and lvl 2 upgrades for toss is a to big improvement for toss Specially the shield upgrade, wich now seems viable as alternative to the armour upgrade i find to strong now The upgrades don't come any faster, and the final result is that Protoss ends up getting on average two extra gateway units by the fifteen minute mark. That's too strong? | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45017 Posts
On November 10 2011 07:39 Scufo wrote: My point was, Protoss armies do much better than Terran ones with less-than-superb micro. It's a real problem for Plat-Diamond level players. There's a reason why Terran is the least played race there. Oh, I thought it was because all the Terrans had already moved up into Code S. Just kidding, but I feel that the necessary micro for both races is about even, and when Protoss don't hit forcefields or storms, they lose the game just as often as when Terrans don't split their units or cast EMPs. I think it averages out pretty well. | ||
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rpgalon
Brazil1069 Posts
ghosts and templars 1- ghosts have more hp (it is fucking hard to snipe it with blink stalker or colossus before the emp) 2- ghosts have more movement speed (templars speed = battlecruiser speed) 3- ghosts can cloak 4- ghosts have more range with EMP (3 more "efective range" than feedback) 5- ghosts are not light or armored (like templars or infestors) they take extra damage only to archon 6- ghosts can fight back 10/+10 vs light 7- ghosts can be upgraded to start with 75 energy 8- ghosts takes 40s to build ( templar takes 5s + 44.4s to get energy = 49,4s and delay the warpgate by 45s) 9- ghosts don't need to research EMP, (storm cost 200/200 and takes 110s to research) 10-ghosts are unlocked with a tech lab (50/25/25s) + ghost academy (150/50/40s)= 200/75/65s, while templars "with no storm" you need twilight concil (150/100/50s) + templar archives (150/200/60s)= 300/300/110s; with storm is 500/500/220s 11-ghosts have 1 more sight range EMP and Storm 1- EMP reveals cloack, storm does not 2- EMP can be used to remove energy of yours banshee/BC/thors, Storm can be used to kill yours stupid zealots that are trying to reach the kitting marine marauder ball. 3- EMP removes 100 energy 4- EMP minimun damage is 40 (sentry/templar) max is 100 (everything that does not come from gateway takes 100 dmg) it always does the full damage that it is suposed to do. 6- EMP can't be dodged after launch, when you see the EMP, it already did its job 7- EMP is instant, Storm takes 4 seconds to deal 80 dmg, it almost never do 80 dmg usually the kiting marine marauder ball takes only 40 dmg ( zealots takes the other 40 dmg...) we already have a winner...gg =D | ||
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Scufo
United States136 Posts
On November 10 2011 07:46 rpgalon wrote: Plz, stop with the ghost VS HT shit <proceeds with ghost vs. HT shit> -.- | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45017 Posts
That's exactly what I was thinking, but then I realized that he was pretty spot-on. Of course, I can't wait to hear the typical counter of "But EMP can't kill things!", because it's usually at this point in time that people conveniently forget that Terran players can make marines and marauders. | ||
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epicdemic
Netherlands137 Posts
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Resistentialism
Canada688 Posts
On November 10 2011 08:00 epicdemic wrote: What about ghosts taking away any shields above 50, in addition to all energy? This way the ghost still counters high shield units like the archon, but not the gateway units. Zealots will still have 50/75 shields, and stalkers still 50/80. That's at least an interesting idea, but zealots only have 50 shields anyways. : ) It always seems to be protoss mechanics and stats that people have kind of wrong in their head. | ||
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Arterial
Australia1039 Posts
On November 10 2011 07:46 rpgalon wrote: Plz, stop with the ghost VS HT shit, there is no need for it ghosts and templars 1- ghosts have more hp (it is fucking hard to snipe it with blink stalker or colossus before the emp) 2- ghosts have more movement speed (templars speed = battlecruiser speed) 3- ghosts can cloak 4- ghosts have more range with EMP (3 more "efective range" than feedback) 5- ghosts are not light or armored (like templars or infestors) they take extra damage only to archon 6- ghosts can fight back 10/+10 vs light 7- ghosts can be upgraded to start with 75 energy 8- ghosts takes 40s to build ( templar takes 5s + 44.4s to get energy = 49,4s and delay the warpgate by 45s) 9- ghosts don't need to research EMP, (storm cost 200/200 and takes 110s to research) 10-ghosts are unlocked with a tech lab (50/25/25s) + ghost academy (150/50/40s)= 200/75/65s, while templars "with no storm" you need twilight concil (150/100/50s) + templar archives (150/200/60s)= 300/300/110s; with storm is 500/500/220s 11-ghosts have 1 more sight range EMP and Storm 1- EMP reveals cloack, storm does not 2- EMP can be used to remove energy of yours banshee/BC/thors, Storm can be used to kill the zealots that are trying to reach the kitting marine marauder ball. 3- EMP removes 100 energy 4- EMP minimun damage is 40 (sentry/templar) max is 100 (everything that does not come from gateway takes 100 dmg) it always does the full damage that it is suposed to do. 6- EMP can't be dodged after launch, when you see the EMP, it already did its job 7- EMP is instant, Storm takes 4 seconds to deal 80 dmg, it almost never do 80 dmg usually the kiting marine marauder ball takes only 40 dmg ( zealots takes the other 40 dmg...) we already have a winner...gg =D are you suggesting that EMP should be researched? interesting... | ||
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rpgalon
Brazil1069 Posts
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keglu
Poland485 Posts
On November 10 2011 07:46 rpgalon wrote: Plz, stop with the ghost VS HT shit, there is no need for it 6- EMP can't be dodged after launch, when you see the EMP, it already did its job 7- EMP is instant, Storm takes 4 seconds to deal 80 dmg, it almost never do 80 dmg usually the kiting marine marauder ball takes only 40 dmg ( zealots takes the other 40 dmg...) we already have a winner...gg =D 6. Thats the mail problem for not pro terran players. Since if you protoss when you get hit by emp you take full damage not matter how good you are so the game is balanced around that. For terran Blizzard balance game for best players which are capable of dodging storm, at the same time casual ladder players cant do that. It's the same with marines micro againts banegling for example. Because of that imo ladder population of terran will shrink further(its already happening). 7.40 dmg to marines is significantly more devastating then emp on zealots, 40 dmg to marauders is as devastating like emp on zealots. Since zealot/stalkers models are bigger than marine/marauder i assume that with the same radius stom can hit more units than emp. | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On November 10 2011 08:25 keglu wrote: 7.40 dmg to marines is significantly more devastating then emp on zealots, 40 dmg to marauders is as devastating like emp on zealots. Since zealot/stalkers models are bigger than marine/marauder i assume that with the same radius stom can hit more units than emp. This is actually a good point. It's not really about how does the most damage, it's about the effective of it. Zealots have 50shield/100hp, so although an emp destroy 100 shield, it only takes away 50 shield, you still need a boat load of dps to kill a zealot. On the other hand, marines only have 55 hp, so although a storm only does 40 hp which is less than an emp, you only need 1 zealot slice, 1 collosus laser, or 1 stalker attack if marines already lose 10hp from stim, to kill a marine. | ||
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rpgalon
Brazil1069 Posts
On November 10 2011 08:25 keglu wrote: 6. Thats the mail problem for not pro terran players. Since if you protoss when you get hit by emp you take full damage not matter how good you are so the game is balanced around that. For terran Blizzard balance game for best players which are capable of dodging storm, at the same time casual ladder players cant do that. It's the same with marines micro againts banegling for example. Because of that imo ladder population of terran will shrink further(its already happening). 7.40 dmg to marines is significantly more devastating then emp on zealots, 40 dmg to marauders is as devastating like emp on zealots. Since zealot/stalkers models are bigger than marine/marauder i assume that with the same radius stom can hit more units than emp. nah, marines with 30% of HP are far better than zealots with 60% HP if you don't kill the marines, you did almost nothing, the nunber of times a protoss player loses to a 10 health MM ball is huge. 1 marine have the same dps as 1 stalker on light units, you have to kill then, fast! good job anyway on those points, now, what about the other 15 points? | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45017 Posts
On November 10 2011 08:36 canikizu wrote: This is actually a good point. It's not really about how does the most damage, it's about the effective of it. Zealots have 50shield/100hp, so although an emp destroy 100 shield, it only takes away 50 shield, you still need a boat load of dps to kill a zealot. On the other hand, marines only have 55 hp, so although a storm only does 40 hp which is less than an emp, you only need 1 zealot slice, 1 collosus laser, or 1 stalker attack if marines already lose 10hp from stim, to kill a marine. You're forgetting that medivacs will immediately bring those low hp marines back to full health, and that marines and marauders already do insane dps to gateway balls  | ||
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xZiGGY
United Kingdom801 Posts
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Killcani
Sweden448 Posts
On November 10 2011 08:37 rpgalon wrote: nah, marines with 30% of HP are far better than zealots with 60% HP if you don't kill the marines, you did almost nothing, the nunber of times a protoss player loses to a 10 health MM ball is huge. 1 marine have the same dps as 1 stalker on light units, you have to kill then, fast! good job anyway on those points, now, what about the other 15 points? And why is that when 30%hp marines die way faster and does less dps? | ||
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