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On November 10 2011 08:42 Killcani wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 08:37 rpgalon wrote:On November 10 2011 08:25 keglu wrote:On November 10 2011 07:46 rpgalon wrote:
Plz, stop with the ghost VS HT shit, there is no need for it
6- EMP can't be dodged after launch, when you see the EMP, it already did its job
7- EMP is instant, Storm takes 4 seconds to deal 80 dmg, it almost never do 80 dmg usually the kiting marine marauder ball takes only 40 dmg ( zealots takes the other 40 dmg...)
we already have a winner...gg =D
6. Thats the mail problem for not pro terran players. Since if you protoss when you get hit by emp you take full damage not matter how good you are so the game is balanced around that. For terran Blizzard balance game for best players which are capable of dodging storm, at the same time casual ladder players cant do that. It's the same with marines micro againts banegling for example. Because of that imo ladder population of terran will shrink further(its already happening). 7. 40 dmg to marines is significantly more devastating then emp on zealots, 40 dmg to marauders is as devastating like emp on zealots. Since zealot/stalkers models are bigger than marine/marauder i assume that with the same radius stom can hit more units than emp. nah, marines with 30% of HP are far better than zealots with 60% HPif you don't kill the marines, you did almost nothing, the nunber of times a protoss player loses to a 10 health MM ball is huge. 1 marine have the same dps as 1 stalker on light units, you have to kill then, fast! good job anyway on those points, now, what about the other 15 points? And why is that when 30%hp marines die way faster and does less dps?
If you take into account the fact that you can make two marines for the price of one zealot, two unstimmed marines have higher dps than one zealot. Also, if you stim them, they have much higher dps. Also, you can kite, which makes zealots have zero dps! 
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On November 10 2011 08:42 Killcani wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 08:37 rpgalon wrote:On November 10 2011 08:25 keglu wrote:On November 10 2011 07:46 rpgalon wrote:
Plz, stop with the ghost VS HT shit, there is no need for it
6- EMP can't be dodged after launch, when you see the EMP, it already did its job
7- EMP is instant, Storm takes 4 seconds to deal 80 dmg, it almost never do 80 dmg usually the kiting marine marauder ball takes only 40 dmg ( zealots takes the other 40 dmg...)
we already have a winner...gg =D
6. Thats the mail problem for not pro terran players. Since if you protoss when you get hit by emp you take full damage not matter how good you are so the game is balanced around that. For terran Blizzard balance game for best players which are capable of dodging storm, at the same time casual ladder players cant do that. It's the same with marines micro againts banegling for example. Because of that imo ladder population of terran will shrink further(its already happening). 7. 40 dmg to marines is significantly more devastating then emp on zealots, 40 dmg to marauders is as devastating like emp on zealots. Since zealot/stalkers models are bigger than marine/marauder i assume that with the same radius stom can hit more units than emp. nah, marines with 30% of HP are far better than zealots with 60% HPif you don't kill the marines, you did almost nothing, the nunber of times a protoss player loses to a 10 health MM ball is huge. 1 marine have the same dps as 1 stalker on light units, you have to kill then, fast! good job anyway on those points, now, what about the other 15 points? And why is that when 30%hp marines die way faster and does less dps?
maybe because they are ranged and kill shit so fast that 1 health or 55 health does not means much...
how many times have you seen a terran win an engagement and then roll over the toss with red health MMM, that for some weird reason refuses to die!?!?
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On November 10 2011 07:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 07:39 Scufo wrote:On November 10 2011 07:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 07:27 Scufo wrote:On November 10 2011 06:39 NineteenSC2 wrote:On November 10 2011 06:06 Talack wrote:
I'm glad that all the protoss all-ins like 6-gate and immortal bust are not being looked at but the late-game of terran is being nerfed ><
God I hate how they balance this game around players with insane micro but the leagues like low-mid masters get screwed when they can't do that but their macro mechanics are solid. Really really hard when both sides are able to make huge armies and the terran player is expected to play x1000 better just to compete with the a-moving with a FF or a storm tossed here and there.
Late game TvP is broken. I don't see how the blizzard developer team does not see it and does not make changes. I think emp was nerfed cause late game terran is op, not protoss. You're doing something wrong. Oh and toss has to: ff, gs, storm, feedback, blink, micro zealots, warp in units in the middle of a battle, spread hts & sentries terran has to: 1a + stim and scoot and shoot What's easier? Late game Terran OP...am I dreaming? Protoss armies ROLL Terran bio with no micro (except Stim) on either side. Chargelots and Colossus absolutely manhandle Marines and Marauders. There's a reason Terran tends to be the aggressor in the early and mid game...if you don't hurt a toss you're in for an uphill battle in the lategame... I think I found your problems. You're supposed to micro your units. And make ghosts and vikings instead of just tier one units against an entire Protoss deathball. You're welcome. My point was, Protoss armies do much better than Terran ones with less-than-superb micro. It's a real problem for Plat-Diamond level players. There's a reason why Terran is the least played race there. Oh, I thought it was because all the Terrans had already moved up into Code S. Just kidding, but I feel that the necessary micro for both races is about even, and when Protoss don't hit forcefields or storms, they lose the game just as often as when Terrans don't split their units or cast EMPs. I think it averages out pretty well.
No, the micro is NOT even. Terran has to micro way more, I thought that was common knowledge? Think about it, how much micro do you have to do with a zealot? Or with colossus? Point is you can get away with not microing as protoss. Your units are way more beefy and don't die as quick. A-move zealot/archon is brutal to deal with if you don't have perfect micro.
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On November 10 2011 08:45 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 08:42 Killcani wrote:On November 10 2011 08:37 rpgalon wrote:On November 10 2011 08:25 keglu wrote:On November 10 2011 07:46 rpgalon wrote:
Plz, stop with the ghost VS HT shit, there is no need for it
6- EMP can't be dodged after launch, when you see the EMP, it already did its job
7- EMP is instant, Storm takes 4 seconds to deal 80 dmg, it almost never do 80 dmg usually the kiting marine marauder ball takes only 40 dmg ( zealots takes the other 40 dmg...)
we already have a winner...gg =D
6. Thats the mail problem for not pro terran players. Since if you protoss when you get hit by emp you take full damage not matter how good you are so the game is balanced around that. For terran Blizzard balance game for best players which are capable of dodging storm, at the same time casual ladder players cant do that. It's the same with marines micro againts banegling for example. Because of that imo ladder population of terran will shrink further(its already happening). 7. 40 dmg to marines is significantly more devastating then emp on zealots, 40 dmg to marauders is as devastating like emp on zealots. Since zealot/stalkers models are bigger than marine/marauder i assume that with the same radius stom can hit more units than emp. nah, marines with 30% of HP are far better than zealots with 60% HPif you don't kill the marines, you did almost nothing, the nunber of times a protoss player loses to a 10 health MM ball is huge. 1 marine have the same dps as 1 stalker on light units, you have to kill then, fast! good job anyway on those points, now, what about the other 15 points? And why is that when 30%hp marines die way faster and does less dps? If you take into account the fact that you can make two marines for the price of one zealot, two unstimmed marines have higher dps than one zealot. Also, if you stim them, they have much higher dps. Also, you can kite, which makes zealots have zero dps!
Yeah that sounds good but oh you forgot that they die instantly!. Zealots with charge ALWAYS DO DMG you cant "kite away so they have zero dps".
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On November 10 2011 08:51 IlIlIlIl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 07:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 07:39 Scufo wrote:On November 10 2011 07:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 07:27 Scufo wrote:On November 10 2011 06:39 NineteenSC2 wrote:On November 10 2011 06:06 Talack wrote:
I'm glad that all the protoss all-ins like 6-gate and immortal bust are not being looked at but the late-game of terran is being nerfed ><
God I hate how they balance this game around players with insane micro but the leagues like low-mid masters get screwed when they can't do that but their macro mechanics are solid. Really really hard when both sides are able to make huge armies and the terran player is expected to play x1000 better just to compete with the a-moving with a FF or a storm tossed here and there.
Late game TvP is broken. I don't see how the blizzard developer team does not see it and does not make changes. I think emp was nerfed cause late game terran is op, not protoss. You're doing something wrong. Oh and toss has to: ff, gs, storm, feedback, blink, micro zealots, warp in units in the middle of a battle, spread hts & sentries terran has to: 1a + stim and scoot and shoot What's easier? Late game Terran OP...am I dreaming? Protoss armies ROLL Terran bio with no micro (except Stim) on either side. Chargelots and Colossus absolutely manhandle Marines and Marauders. There's a reason Terran tends to be the aggressor in the early and mid game...if you don't hurt a toss you're in for an uphill battle in the lategame... I think I found your problems. You're supposed to micro your units. And make ghosts and vikings instead of just tier one units against an entire Protoss deathball. You're welcome. My point was, Protoss armies do much better than Terran ones with less-than-superb micro. It's a real problem for Plat-Diamond level players. There's a reason why Terran is the least played race there. Oh, I thought it was because all the Terrans had already moved up into Code S. Just kidding, but I feel that the necessary micro for both races is about even, and when Protoss don't hit forcefields or storms, they lose the game just as often as when Terrans don't split their units or cast EMPs. I think it averages out pretty well. No, the micro is NOT even. Terran has to micro way more, I thought that was common knowledge? Think about it, how much micro do you have to do with a zealot? Or with colossus? Point is you can get away with not microing as protoss. Your units are way more beefy and don't die as quick. A-move zealot/archon is brutal to deal with if you don't have perfect micro.
Well no this is not common knowledge. At least about one third of the SC2 players will disagree with that statement.
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On November 10 2011 08:51 IlIlIlIl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 07:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 07:39 Scufo wrote:On November 10 2011 07:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 07:27 Scufo wrote:On November 10 2011 06:39 NineteenSC2 wrote:On November 10 2011 06:06 Talack wrote:
I'm glad that all the protoss all-ins like 6-gate and immortal bust are not being looked at but the late-game of terran is being nerfed ><
God I hate how they balance this game around players with insane micro but the leagues like low-mid masters get screwed when they can't do that but their macro mechanics are solid. Really really hard when both sides are able to make huge armies and the terran player is expected to play x1000 better just to compete with the a-moving with a FF or a storm tossed here and there.
Late game TvP is broken. I don't see how the blizzard developer team does not see it and does not make changes. I think emp was nerfed cause late game terran is op, not protoss. You're doing something wrong. Oh and toss has to: ff, gs, storm, feedback, blink, micro zealots, warp in units in the middle of a battle, spread hts & sentries terran has to: 1a + stim and scoot and shoot What's easier? Late game Terran OP...am I dreaming? Protoss armies ROLL Terran bio with no micro (except Stim) on either side. Chargelots and Colossus absolutely manhandle Marines and Marauders. There's a reason Terran tends to be the aggressor in the early and mid game...if you don't hurt a toss you're in for an uphill battle in the lategame... I think I found your problems. You're supposed to micro your units. And make ghosts and vikings instead of just tier one units against an entire Protoss deathball. You're welcome. My point was, Protoss armies do much better than Terran ones with less-than-superb micro. It's a real problem for Plat-Diamond level players. There's a reason why Terran is the least played race there. Oh, I thought it was because all the Terrans had already moved up into Code S. Just kidding, but I feel that the necessary micro for both races is about even, and when Protoss don't hit forcefields or storms, they lose the game just as often as when Terrans don't split their units or cast EMPs. I think it averages out pretty well. No, the micro is NOT even. Terran has to micro way more, I thought that was common knowledge? Think about it, how much micro do you have to do with a zealot? Or with colossus? Point is you can get away with not microing as protoss. Your units are way more beefy and don't die as quick. A-move zealot/archon is brutal to deal with if you don't have perfect micro.
NineteenSC2 already mentioned multiple necessary micro-moves for Protoss ("ff, gs, storm, feedback, blink, micro zealots, warp in units in the middle of a battle, spread hts & sentries"), which wasn't even all of them (moving colossi back against vikings, warp prism mechanics, etc.), so for you to suggest that Protoss only uses zealots, colossi, and archons (and therefore we only a-move) is ridiculous.
Do you realize that Protoss has far more spells to cast? What does that mean to you?
A lot of Protoss micro comes from the spellcasting aspect. A lot of the Terran micro comes from the splitting of the units (and not much else- just ghosts). Believe me, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt when I say that it probably evens out.
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Switzerland2892 Posts
On November 10 2011 08:51 IlIlIlIl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 07:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 07:39 Scufo wrote:On November 10 2011 07:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 07:27 Scufo wrote:On November 10 2011 06:39 NineteenSC2 wrote:On November 10 2011 06:06 Talack wrote:
I'm glad that all the protoss all-ins like 6-gate and immortal bust are not being looked at but the late-game of terran is being nerfed ><
God I hate how they balance this game around players with insane micro but the leagues like low-mid masters get screwed when they can't do that but their macro mechanics are solid. Really really hard when both sides are able to make huge armies and the terran player is expected to play x1000 better just to compete with the a-moving with a FF or a storm tossed here and there.
Late game TvP is broken. I don't see how the blizzard developer team does not see it and does not make changes. I think emp was nerfed cause late game terran is op, not protoss. You're doing something wrong. Oh and toss has to: ff, gs, storm, feedback, blink, micro zealots, warp in units in the middle of a battle, spread hts & sentries terran has to: 1a + stim and scoot and shoot What's easier? Late game Terran OP...am I dreaming? Protoss armies ROLL Terran bio with no micro (except Stim) on either side. Chargelots and Colossus absolutely manhandle Marines and Marauders. There's a reason Terran tends to be the aggressor in the early and mid game...if you don't hurt a toss you're in for an uphill battle in the lategame... I think I found your problems. You're supposed to micro your units. And make ghosts and vikings instead of just tier one units against an entire Protoss deathball. You're welcome. My point was, Protoss armies do much better than Terran ones with less-than-superb micro. It's a real problem for Plat-Diamond level players. There's a reason why Terran is the least played race there. Oh, I thought it was because all the Terrans had already moved up into Code S. Just kidding, but I feel that the necessary micro for both races is about even, and when Protoss don't hit forcefields or storms, they lose the game just as often as when Terrans don't split their units or cast EMPs. I think it averages out pretty well. No, the micro is NOT even. Terran has to micro way more, I thought that was common knowledge? Think about it, how much micro do you have to do with a zealot? Or with colossus? Point is you can get away with not microing as protoss. Your units are way more beefy and don't die as quick. A-move zealot/archon is brutal to deal with if you don't have perfect micro.
I thought it was common knowledge protoss army is composed by more than colossus zealot?
In the same logic as you, you micro marines and marauders in the same group. So the only units you still have to micro are vikings (shift click the colossus, nothing else to do) and ghosts (you emp the whole army before the fight, then you don't use them anymore) so the only thing you have to do is a click, right click, a click, right click.
It's easy to simplify everything, you know?
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On November 10 2011 08:37 rpgalon wrote:
nah, marines with 30% of HP are far better than zealots with 60% HP
Sorry but that doesn't make any sense
On November 10 2011 08:37 rpgalon wrote:
if you don't kill the marines, you did almost nothing, the nunber of times a protoss player loses to a 10 health MM ball is huge.
1 marine have the same dps as 1 stalker on light units, you have to kill then, fast!
good job anyway on those points, now, what about the other 15 points?
I reffered to point i had comment to. Its not like i going to argue on facts. Maybe little hint, when you compare two units, to not be called biased i propose to show pros of them both (abillity to merge to archons, ability to warp in, feedback that can kill high tech units and messively damage others, lower cost)
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On November 10 2011 08:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 08:51 IlIlIlIl wrote:On November 10 2011 07:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 07:39 Scufo wrote:On November 10 2011 07:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 07:27 Scufo wrote:On November 10 2011 06:39 NineteenSC2 wrote:On November 10 2011 06:06 Talack wrote:
I'm glad that all the protoss all-ins like 6-gate and immortal bust are not being looked at but the late-game of terran is being nerfed ><
God I hate how they balance this game around players with insane micro but the leagues like low-mid masters get screwed when they can't do that but their macro mechanics are solid. Really really hard when both sides are able to make huge armies and the terran player is expected to play x1000 better just to compete with the a-moving with a FF or a storm tossed here and there.
Late game TvP is broken. I don't see how the blizzard developer team does not see it and does not make changes. I think emp was nerfed cause late game terran is op, not protoss. You're doing something wrong. Oh and toss has to: ff, gs, storm, feedback, blink, micro zealots, warp in units in the middle of a battle, spread hts & sentries terran has to: 1a + stim and scoot and shoot What's easier? Late game Terran OP...am I dreaming? Protoss armies ROLL Terran bio with no micro (except Stim) on either side. Chargelots and Colossus absolutely manhandle Marines and Marauders. There's a reason Terran tends to be the aggressor in the early and mid game...if you don't hurt a toss you're in for an uphill battle in the lategame... I think I found your problems. You're supposed to micro your units. And make ghosts and vikings instead of just tier one units against an entire Protoss deathball. You're welcome. My point was, Protoss armies do much better than Terran ones with less-than-superb micro. It's a real problem for Plat-Diamond level players. There's a reason why Terran is the least played race there. Oh, I thought it was because all the Terrans had already moved up into Code S. Just kidding, but I feel that the necessary micro for both races is about even, and when Protoss don't hit forcefields or storms, they lose the game just as often as when Terrans don't split their units or cast EMPs. I think it averages out pretty well. No, the micro is NOT even. Terran has to micro way more, I thought that was common knowledge? Think about it, how much micro do you have to do with a zealot? Or with colossus? Point is you can get away with not microing as protoss. Your units are way more beefy and don't die as quick. A-move zealot/archon is brutal to deal with if you don't have perfect micro. NineteenSC2 already mentioned multiple necessary micro-moves for Protoss ("ff, gs, storm, feedback, blink, micro zealots, warp in units in the middle of a battle, spread hts & sentries"), which wasn't even all of them (moving colossi back against vikings, warp prism mechanics, etc.), so for you to suggest that Protoss only uses zealots, colossi, and archons (and therefore we only a-move) is ridiculous. Do you realize that Protoss has far more spells to cast? What does that mean to you?A lot of Protoss micro comes from the spellcasting aspect. A lot of the Terran micro comes from the splitting of the units (and not much else- just ghosts). Believe me, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt when I say that it probably evens out.
If you think casting ff's or storms is hard micro.... Idk what to say. Spellcasting is probably the easiest micro in the game. And I never see ANY protoss use blink at all vs. terran lmao, so you can just rule that one out completely. Go to darglein's micro trainer and choose the terran one "death ball" or whatever it's called and see for yourself how much harder it is.
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On November 10 2011 08:55 Killcani wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 08:45 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 08:42 Killcani wrote:On November 10 2011 08:37 rpgalon wrote:On November 10 2011 08:25 keglu wrote:On November 10 2011 07:46 rpgalon wrote:
Plz, stop with the ghost VS HT shit, there is no need for it
6- EMP can't be dodged after launch, when you see the EMP, it already did its job
7- EMP is instant, Storm takes 4 seconds to deal 80 dmg, it almost never do 80 dmg usually the kiting marine marauder ball takes only 40 dmg ( zealots takes the other 40 dmg...)
we already have a winner...gg =D
6. Thats the mail problem for not pro terran players. Since if you protoss when you get hit by emp you take full damage not matter how good you are so the game is balanced around that. For terran Blizzard balance game for best players which are capable of dodging storm, at the same time casual ladder players cant do that. It's the same with marines micro againts banegling for example. Because of that imo ladder population of terran will shrink further(its already happening). 7. 40 dmg to marines is significantly more devastating then emp on zealots, 40 dmg to marauders is as devastating like emp on zealots. Since zealot/stalkers models are bigger than marine/marauder i assume that with the same radius stom can hit more units than emp. nah, marines with 30% of HP are far better than zealots with 60% HPif you don't kill the marines, you did almost nothing, the nunber of times a protoss player loses to a 10 health MM ball is huge. 1 marine have the same dps as 1 stalker on light units, you have to kill then, fast! good job anyway on those points, now, what about the other 15 points? And why is that when 30%hp marines die way faster and does less dps? If you take into account the fact that you can make two marines for the price of one zealot, two unstimmed marines have higher dps than one zealot. Also, if you stim them, they have much higher dps. Also, you can kite, which makes zealots have zero dps! Yeah that sounds good but oh you forgot that they instantly!. Zealots with charge ALWAYS DO DMG you cant "kite away so they have zero dps".
Umm, I'm fairly certain that chargelots don't always hit. You can still kite them indefinitely. There was a bug fix where occasionally, chargelots would run into units and not swing (deal melee damage), and that bug was fixed (so that now, every time zealots get *within melee range*, they'll deal damage), but you can still outrun zealots so that they never get within melee range, since you can outrange them.
Could you picture zealots being invincible and using charge indefinitely until they dealt damage? I can't, but that's pretty much what you're proposing (at least, that they can't be killed off until they hit a target). Stimmed microed bio > chargelots
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On November 10 2011 09:03 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 08:55 Killcani wrote:On November 10 2011 08:45 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 08:42 Killcani wrote:On November 10 2011 08:37 rpgalon wrote:On November 10 2011 08:25 keglu wrote:On November 10 2011 07:46 rpgalon wrote:
Plz, stop with the ghost VS HT shit, there is no need for it
6- EMP can't be dodged after launch, when you see the EMP, it already did its job
7- EMP is instant, Storm takes 4 seconds to deal 80 dmg, it almost never do 80 dmg usually the kiting marine marauder ball takes only 40 dmg ( zealots takes the other 40 dmg...)
we already have a winner...gg =D
6. Thats the mail problem for not pro terran players. Since if you protoss when you get hit by emp you take full damage not matter how good you are so the game is balanced around that. For terran Blizzard balance game for best players which are capable of dodging storm, at the same time casual ladder players cant do that. It's the same with marines micro againts banegling for example. Because of that imo ladder population of terran will shrink further(its already happening). 7. 40 dmg to marines is significantly more devastating then emp on zealots, 40 dmg to marauders is as devastating like emp on zealots. Since zealot/stalkers models are bigger than marine/marauder i assume that with the same radius stom can hit more units than emp. nah, marines with 30% of HP are far better than zealots with 60% HPif you don't kill the marines, you did almost nothing, the nunber of times a protoss player loses to a 10 health MM ball is huge. 1 marine have the same dps as 1 stalker on light units, you have to kill then, fast! good job anyway on those points, now, what about the other 15 points? And why is that when 30%hp marines die way faster and does less dps? If you take into account the fact that you can make two marines for the price of one zealot, two unstimmed marines have higher dps than one zealot. Also, if you stim them, they have much higher dps. Also, you can kite, which makes zealots have zero dps! Yeah that sounds good but oh you forgot that they instantly!. Zealots with charge ALWAYS DO DMG you cant "kite away so they have zero dps". Umm, I'm fairly certain that chargelots don't always hit. You can still kite them indefinitely. There was a bug fix where occasionally, chargelots would run into units and not swing (deal melee damage), and that bug was fixed (so that now, every time zealots get *within melee range*, they'll deal damage), but you can still outrun zealots so that they never get within melee range, since you can outrange them. Could you picture zealots being invincible and using charge indefinitely until they dealt damage? I can't, but that's pretty much what you're proposing (at least, that they can't be killed off until they hit a target). Stimmed microed bio > chargelots
No they always do dmg. Try it out in-game if you want to and you will see its true.
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On November 10 2011 09:03 IlIlIlIl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 08:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 08:51 IlIlIlIl wrote:On November 10 2011 07:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 07:39 Scufo wrote:On November 10 2011 07:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 07:27 Scufo wrote:On November 10 2011 06:39 NineteenSC2 wrote:On November 10 2011 06:06 Talack wrote:
I'm glad that all the protoss all-ins like 6-gate and immortal bust are not being looked at but the late-game of terran is being nerfed ><
God I hate how they balance this game around players with insane micro but the leagues like low-mid masters get screwed when they can't do that but their macro mechanics are solid. Really really hard when both sides are able to make huge armies and the terran player is expected to play x1000 better just to compete with the a-moving with a FF or a storm tossed here and there.
Late game TvP is broken. I don't see how the blizzard developer team does not see it and does not make changes. I think emp was nerfed cause late game terran is op, not protoss. You're doing something wrong. Oh and toss has to: ff, gs, storm, feedback, blink, micro zealots, warp in units in the middle of a battle, spread hts & sentries terran has to: 1a + stim and scoot and shoot What's easier? Late game Terran OP...am I dreaming? Protoss armies ROLL Terran bio with no micro (except Stim) on either side. Chargelots and Colossus absolutely manhandle Marines and Marauders. There's a reason Terran tends to be the aggressor in the early and mid game...if you don't hurt a toss you're in for an uphill battle in the lategame... I think I found your problems. You're supposed to micro your units. And make ghosts and vikings instead of just tier one units against an entire Protoss deathball. You're welcome. My point was, Protoss armies do much better than Terran ones with less-than-superb micro. It's a real problem for Plat-Diamond level players. There's a reason why Terran is the least played race there. Oh, I thought it was because all the Terrans had already moved up into Code S. Just kidding, but I feel that the necessary micro for both races is about even, and when Protoss don't hit forcefields or storms, they lose the game just as often as when Terrans don't split their units or cast EMPs. I think it averages out pretty well. No, the micro is NOT even. Terran has to micro way more, I thought that was common knowledge? Think about it, how much micro do you have to do with a zealot? Or with colossus? Point is you can get away with not microing as protoss. Your units are way more beefy and don't die as quick. A-move zealot/archon is brutal to deal with if you don't have perfect micro. NineteenSC2 already mentioned multiple necessary micro-moves for Protoss ("ff, gs, storm, feedback, blink, micro zealots, warp in units in the middle of a battle, spread hts & sentries"), which wasn't even all of them (moving colossi back against vikings, warp prism mechanics, etc.), so for you to suggest that Protoss only uses zealots, colossi, and archons (and therefore we only a-move) is ridiculous. Do you realize that Protoss has far more spells to cast? What does that mean to you?A lot of Protoss micro comes from the spellcasting aspect. A lot of the Terran micro comes from the splitting of the units (and not much else- just ghosts). Believe me, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt when I say that it probably evens out. If you think casting ff's or storms is hard micro.... Idk what to say. Spellcasting is probably the easiest micro in the game. And I never see ANY protoss use blink at all vs. terran lmao, so you can just rule that one out completely. Go to darglein's micro trainer and choose the terran one "death ball" or whatever it's called and see for yourself how much harder it is.
The reason you think that spellcasting is easy is because the one spell you cast against Protoss is done instantaneously. And you're probably cloaked at the time.
I find it hilarious that you think anybody can cast forcefields like MC. Try it some time. And try throwing down perfect storms on moving targets too. Let me know how it goes.
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On November 10 2011 09:06 Killcani wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 09:03 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 08:55 Killcani wrote:On November 10 2011 08:45 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 08:42 Killcani wrote:On November 10 2011 08:37 rpgalon wrote:On November 10 2011 08:25 keglu wrote:On November 10 2011 07:46 rpgalon wrote:
Plz, stop with the ghost VS HT shit, there is no need for it
6- EMP can't be dodged after launch, when you see the EMP, it already did its job
7- EMP is instant, Storm takes 4 seconds to deal 80 dmg, it almost never do 80 dmg usually the kiting marine marauder ball takes only 40 dmg ( zealots takes the other 40 dmg...)
we already have a winner...gg =D
6. Thats the mail problem for not pro terran players. Since if you protoss when you get hit by emp you take full damage not matter how good you are so the game is balanced around that. For terran Blizzard balance game for best players which are capable of dodging storm, at the same time casual ladder players cant do that. It's the same with marines micro againts banegling for example. Because of that imo ladder population of terran will shrink further(its already happening). 7. 40 dmg to marines is significantly more devastating then emp on zealots, 40 dmg to marauders is as devastating like emp on zealots. Since zealot/stalkers models are bigger than marine/marauder i assume that with the same radius stom can hit more units than emp. nah, marines with 30% of HP are far better than zealots with 60% HPif you don't kill the marines, you did almost nothing, the nunber of times a protoss player loses to a 10 health MM ball is huge. 1 marine have the same dps as 1 stalker on light units, you have to kill then, fast! good job anyway on those points, now, what about the other 15 points? And why is that when 30%hp marines die way faster and does less dps? If you take into account the fact that you can make two marines for the price of one zealot, two unstimmed marines have higher dps than one zealot. Also, if you stim them, they have much higher dps. Also, you can kite, which makes zealots have zero dps! Yeah that sounds good but oh you forgot that they instantly!. Zealots with charge ALWAYS DO DMG you cant "kite away so they have zero dps". Umm, I'm fairly certain that chargelots don't always hit. You can still kite them indefinitely. There was a bug fix where occasionally, chargelots would run into units and not swing (deal melee damage), and that bug was fixed (so that now, every time zealots get *within melee range*, they'll deal damage), but you can still outrun zealots so that they never get within melee range, since you can outrange them. Could you picture zealots being invincible and using charge indefinitely until they dealt damage? I can't, but that's pretty much what you're proposing (at least, that they can't be killed off until they hit a target). Stimmed microed bio > chargelots No they always do dmg. Try it out in-game if you want to and you will see its true.
No they don't. You can kite them with Conc shells.
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On November 10 2011 08:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 08:51 IlIlIlIl wrote:On November 10 2011 07:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 07:39 Scufo wrote:On November 10 2011 07:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 07:27 Scufo wrote:On November 10 2011 06:39 NineteenSC2 wrote:On November 10 2011 06:06 Talack wrote:
I'm glad that all the protoss all-ins like 6-gate and immortal bust are not being looked at but the late-game of terran is being nerfed ><
God I hate how they balance this game around players with insane micro but the leagues like low-mid masters get screwed when they can't do that but their macro mechanics are solid. Really really hard when both sides are able to make huge armies and the terran player is expected to play x1000 better just to compete with the a-moving with a FF or a storm tossed here and there.
Late game TvP is broken. I don't see how the blizzard developer team does not see it and does not make changes. I think emp was nerfed cause late game terran is op, not protoss. You're doing something wrong. Oh and toss has to: ff, gs, storm, feedback, blink, micro zealots, warp in units in the middle of a battle, spread hts & sentries terran has to: 1a + stim and scoot and shoot What's easier? Late game Terran OP...am I dreaming? Protoss armies ROLL Terran bio with no micro (except Stim) on either side. Chargelots and Colossus absolutely manhandle Marines and Marauders. There's a reason Terran tends to be the aggressor in the early and mid game...if you don't hurt a toss you're in for an uphill battle in the lategame... I think I found your problems. You're supposed to micro your units. And make ghosts and vikings instead of just tier one units against an entire Protoss deathball. You're welcome. My point was, Protoss armies do much better than Terran ones with less-than-superb micro. It's a real problem for Plat-Diamond level players. There's a reason why Terran is the least played race there. Oh, I thought it was because all the Terrans had already moved up into Code S. Just kidding, but I feel that the necessary micro for both races is about even, and when Protoss don't hit forcefields or storms, they lose the game just as often as when Terrans don't split their units or cast EMPs. I think it averages out pretty well. No, the micro is NOT even. Terran has to micro way more, I thought that was common knowledge? Think about it, how much micro do you have to do with a zealot? Or with colossus? Point is you can get away with not microing as protoss. Your units are way more beefy and don't die as quick. A-move zealot/archon is brutal to deal with if you don't have perfect micro. NineteenSC2 already mentioned multiple necessary micro-moves for Protoss ("ff, gs, storm, feedback, blink, micro zealots, warp in units in the middle of a battle, spread hts & sentries"), which wasn't even all of them (moving colossi back against vikings, warp prism mechanics, etc.), so for you to suggest that Protoss only uses zealots, colossi, and archons (and therefore we only a-move) is ridiculous. Do you realize that Protoss has far more spells to cast? What does that mean to you?A lot of Protoss micro comes from the spellcasting aspect. A lot of the Terran micro comes from the splitting of the units (and not much else- just ghosts). Believe me, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt when I say that it probably evens out.
I don't think that Protoss is particularly less difficult to control than Terran is, but some of that is a bit misleading. If you're counting GS, you should probably count stim. Blink isn't really used in a super micro-intensive fashion against Terran like it is against Zerg. Microing zealots... isn't really done largely, except for entirely pulling back. Warping in units is macro, it's mid-fight, so does impede your ability to micro, but it isn't micro itself. Spreading high templars and sentries is largely done pre-battle, rather than mid.
Really, good forcefields are probably the most impressive individual thing people do, since so many people fuck it up and just end up trapping their own zealots.
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On November 10 2011 08:51 IlIlIlIl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 07:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 07:39 Scufo wrote:On November 10 2011 07:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 07:27 Scufo wrote:On November 10 2011 06:39 NineteenSC2 wrote:On November 10 2011 06:06 Talack wrote:
I'm glad that all the protoss all-ins like 6-gate and immortal bust are not being looked at but the late-game of terran is being nerfed ><
God I hate how they balance this game around players with insane micro but the leagues like low-mid masters get screwed when they can't do that but their macro mechanics are solid. Really really hard when both sides are able to make huge armies and the terran player is expected to play x1000 better just to compete with the a-moving with a FF or a storm tossed here and there.
Late game TvP is broken. I don't see how the blizzard developer team does not see it and does not make changes. I think emp was nerfed cause late game terran is op, not protoss. You're doing something wrong. Oh and toss has to: ff, gs, storm, feedback, blink, micro zealots, warp in units in the middle of a battle, spread hts & sentries terran has to: 1a + stim and scoot and shoot What's easier? Late game Terran OP...am I dreaming? Protoss armies ROLL Terran bio with no micro (except Stim) on either side. Chargelots and Colossus absolutely manhandle Marines and Marauders. There's a reason Terran tends to be the aggressor in the early and mid game...if you don't hurt a toss you're in for an uphill battle in the lategame... I think I found your problems. You're supposed to micro your units. And make ghosts and vikings instead of just tier one units against an entire Protoss deathball. You're welcome. My point was, Protoss armies do much better than Terran ones with less-than-superb micro. It's a real problem for Plat-Diamond level players. There's a reason why Terran is the least played race there. Oh, I thought it was because all the Terrans had already moved up into Code S. Just kidding, but I feel that the necessary micro for both races is about even, and when Protoss don't hit forcefields or storms, they lose the game just as often as when Terrans don't split their units or cast EMPs. I think it averages out pretty well. No, the micro is NOT even. Terran has to micro way more, I thought that was common knowledge? Think about it, how much micro do you have to do with a zealot? Or with colossus? Point is you can get away with not microing as protoss. Your units are way more beefy and don't die as quick. A-move zealot/archon is brutal to deal with if you don't have perfect micro.
the micro is different for both races, so, some people are better microing with one than the other.
the protoss race needs to position his army just like terran (spread units, make a concave, etc), but because of far different move speeds (2.8 to 1.8) and far different attack range (melee to 9 range), doing this with the protoss race is harder, the terran army moves like "one".
YEAH doing this one time is easy, but doing this everytime you move and when you are dancing with the terran army is hard.
the terran needs to kite and the protoss needs to blink micro a little, so the terran micro here is harder and very APM heavy
protoss A-move colossus+zealots, Terran A-move vikings, same shit
terran needs EMPs and some ghost micro to snipe some HT's while the protoss needs GS, storm, forcefields, feedbacks (since almost never the protoss is able to use all those spells because of EMP, I think it is pretty even)
TL;DR
IMHO, terran micro is very APM intensive while the protoss micro is more about fast movements with precision.
different type of micro that you can't compare, but both races have A-move compositions
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On November 10 2011 09:09 K3Nyy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 09:06 Killcani wrote:On November 10 2011 09:03 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 08:55 Killcani wrote:On November 10 2011 08:45 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 08:42 Killcani wrote:On November 10 2011 08:37 rpgalon wrote:On November 10 2011 08:25 keglu wrote:On November 10 2011 07:46 rpgalon wrote:
Plz, stop with the ghost VS HT shit, there is no need for it
6- EMP can't be dodged after launch, when you see the EMP, it already did its job
7- EMP is instant, Storm takes 4 seconds to deal 80 dmg, it almost never do 80 dmg usually the kiting marine marauder ball takes only 40 dmg ( zealots takes the other 40 dmg...)
we already have a winner...gg =D
6. Thats the mail problem for not pro terran players. Since if you protoss when you get hit by emp you take full damage not matter how good you are so the game is balanced around that. For terran Blizzard balance game for best players which are capable of dodging storm, at the same time casual ladder players cant do that. It's the same with marines micro againts banegling for example. Because of that imo ladder population of terran will shrink further(its already happening). 7. 40 dmg to marines is significantly more devastating then emp on zealots, 40 dmg to marauders is as devastating like emp on zealots. Since zealot/stalkers models are bigger than marine/marauder i assume that with the same radius stom can hit more units than emp. nah, marines with 30% of HP are far better than zealots with 60% HPif you don't kill the marines, you did almost nothing, the nunber of times a protoss player loses to a 10 health MM ball is huge. 1 marine have the same dps as 1 stalker on light units, you have to kill then, fast! good job anyway on those points, now, what about the other 15 points? And why is that when 30%hp marines die way faster and does less dps? If you take into account the fact that you can make two marines for the price of one zealot, two unstimmed marines have higher dps than one zealot. Also, if you stim them, they have much higher dps. Also, you can kite, which makes zealots have zero dps! Yeah that sounds good but oh you forgot that they instantly!. Zealots with charge ALWAYS DO DMG you cant "kite away so they have zero dps". Umm, I'm fairly certain that chargelots don't always hit. You can still kite them indefinitely. There was a bug fix where occasionally, chargelots would run into units and not swing (deal melee damage), and that bug was fixed (so that now, every time zealots get *within melee range*, they'll deal damage), but you can still outrun zealots so that they never get within melee range, since you can outrange them. Could you picture zealots being invincible and using charge indefinitely until they dealt damage? I can't, but that's pretty much what you're proposing (at least, that they can't be killed off until they hit a target). Stimmed microed bio > chargelots No they always do dmg. Try it out in-game if you want to and you will see its true. No they don't. You can kite them with Conc shells.
False charge zealots ALWAYS DO DMG have you ever played the game?
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On November 10 2011 09:03 IlIlIlIl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 08:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 08:51 IlIlIlIl wrote:On November 10 2011 07:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 07:39 Scufo wrote:On November 10 2011 07:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 07:27 Scufo wrote:On November 10 2011 06:39 NineteenSC2 wrote:On November 10 2011 06:06 Talack wrote:
I'm glad that all the protoss all-ins like 6-gate and immortal bust are not being looked at but the late-game of terran is being nerfed ><
God I hate how they balance this game around players with insane micro but the leagues like low-mid masters get screwed when they can't do that but their macro mechanics are solid. Really really hard when both sides are able to make huge armies and the terran player is expected to play x1000 better just to compete with the a-moving with a FF or a storm tossed here and there.
Late game TvP is broken. I don't see how the blizzard developer team does not see it and does not make changes. I think emp was nerfed cause late game terran is op, not protoss. You're doing something wrong. Oh and toss has to: ff, gs, storm, feedback, blink, micro zealots, warp in units in the middle of a battle, spread hts & sentries terran has to: 1a + stim and scoot and shoot What's easier? Late game Terran OP...am I dreaming? Protoss armies ROLL Terran bio with no micro (except Stim) on either side. Chargelots and Colossus absolutely manhandle Marines and Marauders. There's a reason Terran tends to be the aggressor in the early and mid game...if you don't hurt a toss you're in for an uphill battle in the lategame... I think I found your problems. You're supposed to micro your units. And make ghosts and vikings instead of just tier one units against an entire Protoss deathball. You're welcome. My point was, Protoss armies do much better than Terran ones with less-than-superb micro. It's a real problem for Plat-Diamond level players. There's a reason why Terran is the least played race there. Oh, I thought it was because all the Terrans had already moved up into Code S. Just kidding, but I feel that the necessary micro for both races is about even, and when Protoss don't hit forcefields or storms, they lose the game just as often as when Terrans don't split their units or cast EMPs. I think it averages out pretty well. No, the micro is NOT even. Terran has to micro way more, I thought that was common knowledge? Think about it, how much micro do you have to do with a zealot? Or with colossus? Point is you can get away with not microing as protoss. Your units are way more beefy and don't die as quick. A-move zealot/archon is brutal to deal with if you don't have perfect micro. NineteenSC2 already mentioned multiple necessary micro-moves for Protoss ("ff, gs, storm, feedback, blink, micro zealots, warp in units in the middle of a battle, spread hts & sentries"), which wasn't even all of them (moving colossi back against vikings, warp prism mechanics, etc.), so for you to suggest that Protoss only uses zealots, colossi, and archons (and therefore we only a-move) is ridiculous. Do you realize that Protoss has far more spells to cast? What does that mean to you?A lot of Protoss micro comes from the spellcasting aspect. A lot of the Terran micro comes from the splitting of the units (and not much else- just ghosts). Believe me, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt when I say that it probably evens out. If you think casting ff's or storms is hard micro.... Idk what to say. Spellcasting is probably the easiest micro in the game. And I never see ANY protoss use blink at all vs. terran lmao, so you can just rule that one out completely. Go to darglein's micro trainer and choose the terran one "death ball" or whatever it's called and see for yourself how much harder it is.
To be fair, blink isn't that great in a straight up fight. The most useful it can be for Protoss is to reposition to snipe vikings or to escape when poking. Other than that, blink is mostly a gimmick for bypassing front bunkers in an all-in scenario. Even in PvZ, the benefits it affords are in expanding an arc against low range roaches and escape a favorable engagement before it swings the other way. Its value in a straight up fight to the death is grossly exaggerated and does little to do more than amplify a bigger army slightly.
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On November 10 2011 09:09 K3Nyy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 09:06 Killcani wrote:On November 10 2011 09:03 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 08:55 Killcani wrote:On November 10 2011 08:45 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 08:42 Killcani wrote:On November 10 2011 08:37 rpgalon wrote:On November 10 2011 08:25 keglu wrote:On November 10 2011 07:46 rpgalon wrote:
Plz, stop with the ghost VS HT shit, there is no need for it
6- EMP can't be dodged after launch, when you see the EMP, it already did its job
7- EMP is instant, Storm takes 4 seconds to deal 80 dmg, it almost never do 80 dmg usually the kiting marine marauder ball takes only 40 dmg ( zealots takes the other 40 dmg...)
we already have a winner...gg =D
6. Thats the mail problem for not pro terran players. Since if you protoss when you get hit by emp you take full damage not matter how good you are so the game is balanced around that. For terran Blizzard balance game for best players which are capable of dodging storm, at the same time casual ladder players cant do that. It's the same with marines micro againts banegling for example. Because of that imo ladder population of terran will shrink further(its already happening). 7. 40 dmg to marines is significantly more devastating then emp on zealots, 40 dmg to marauders is as devastating like emp on zealots. Since zealot/stalkers models are bigger than marine/marauder i assume that with the same radius stom can hit more units than emp. nah, marines with 30% of HP are far better than zealots with 60% HPif you don't kill the marines, you did almost nothing, the nunber of times a protoss player loses to a 10 health MM ball is huge. 1 marine have the same dps as 1 stalker on light units, you have to kill then, fast! good job anyway on those points, now, what about the other 15 points? And why is that when 30%hp marines die way faster and does less dps? If you take into account the fact that you can make two marines for the price of one zealot, two unstimmed marines have higher dps than one zealot. Also, if you stim them, they have much higher dps. Also, you can kite, which makes zealots have zero dps! Yeah that sounds good but oh you forgot that they instantly!. Zealots with charge ALWAYS DO DMG you cant "kite away so they have zero dps". Umm, I'm fairly certain that chargelots don't always hit. You can still kite them indefinitely. There was a bug fix where occasionally, chargelots would run into units and not swing (deal melee damage), and that bug was fixed (so that now, every time zealots get *within melee range*, they'll deal damage), but you can still outrun zealots so that they never get within melee range, since you can outrange them. Could you picture zealots being invincible and using charge indefinitely until they dealt damage? I can't, but that's pretty much what you're proposing (at least, that they can't be killed off until they hit a target). Stimmed microed bio > chargelots No they always do dmg. Try it out in-game if you want to and you will see its true. No they don't. You can kite them with Conc shells.
Patch 1.3.0
* Charging Zealots will now hit fleeing targets at least once.
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On November 10 2011 09:08 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 09:03 IlIlIlIl wrote:On November 10 2011 08:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 08:51 IlIlIlIl wrote:On November 10 2011 07:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 07:39 Scufo wrote:On November 10 2011 07:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 07:27 Scufo wrote:On November 10 2011 06:39 NineteenSC2 wrote:On November 10 2011 06:06 Talack wrote:
I'm glad that all the protoss all-ins like 6-gate and immortal bust are not being looked at but the late-game of terran is being nerfed ><
God I hate how they balance this game around players with insane micro but the leagues like low-mid masters get screwed when they can't do that but their macro mechanics are solid. Really really hard when both sides are able to make huge armies and the terran player is expected to play x1000 better just to compete with the a-moving with a FF or a storm tossed here and there.
Late game TvP is broken. I don't see how the blizzard developer team does not see it and does not make changes. I think emp was nerfed cause late game terran is op, not protoss. You're doing something wrong. Oh and toss has to: ff, gs, storm, feedback, blink, micro zealots, warp in units in the middle of a battle, spread hts & sentries terran has to: 1a + stim and scoot and shoot What's easier? Late game Terran OP...am I dreaming? Protoss armies ROLL Terran bio with no micro (except Stim) on either side. Chargelots and Colossus absolutely manhandle Marines and Marauders. There's a reason Terran tends to be the aggressor in the early and mid game...if you don't hurt a toss you're in for an uphill battle in the lategame... I think I found your problems. You're supposed to micro your units. And make ghosts and vikings instead of just tier one units against an entire Protoss deathball. You're welcome. My point was, Protoss armies do much better than Terran ones with less-than-superb micro. It's a real problem for Plat-Diamond level players. There's a reason why Terran is the least played race there. Oh, I thought it was because all the Terrans had already moved up into Code S. Just kidding, but I feel that the necessary micro for both races is about even, and when Protoss don't hit forcefields or storms, they lose the game just as often as when Terrans don't split their units or cast EMPs. I think it averages out pretty well. No, the micro is NOT even. Terran has to micro way more, I thought that was common knowledge? Think about it, how much micro do you have to do with a zealot? Or with colossus? Point is you can get away with not microing as protoss. Your units are way more beefy and don't die as quick. A-move zealot/archon is brutal to deal with if you don't have perfect micro. NineteenSC2 already mentioned multiple necessary micro-moves for Protoss ("ff, gs, storm, feedback, blink, micro zealots, warp in units in the middle of a battle, spread hts & sentries"), which wasn't even all of them (moving colossi back against vikings, warp prism mechanics, etc.), so for you to suggest that Protoss only uses zealots, colossi, and archons (and therefore we only a-move) is ridiculous. Do you realize that Protoss has far more spells to cast? What does that mean to you?A lot of Protoss micro comes from the spellcasting aspect. A lot of the Terran micro comes from the splitting of the units (and not much else- just ghosts). Believe me, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt when I say that it probably evens out. If you think casting ff's or storms is hard micro.... Idk what to say. Spellcasting is probably the easiest micro in the game. And I never see ANY protoss use blink at all vs. terran lmao, so you can just rule that one out completely. Go to darglein's micro trainer and choose the terran one "death ball" or whatever it's called and see for yourself how much harder it is. The reason you think that spellcasting is easy is because the one spell you cast against Protoss is done instantaneously. And you're probably cloaked at the time. I find it hilarious that you think anybody can cast forcefields like MC. Try it some time. And try throwing down perfect storms on moving targets too. Let me know how it goes.
I've played protoss before and I know for a fact that you're exaggerating. You really think it's hard to put a storm behind a clump of units? Really? Or make a line of force fields?
Look, I realized I hit a nerve when I called your race easier to micro, and you have to "defend your honor" now, but there's a reason terran is the least played race now. You would think with all the terrans doing well in code S, people would want to play the race because people are obviously having success with it. People that think terran is stim + amove are just the whiny protoss kids that don't realize that only at the tip top level is terran actually good.
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Switzerland2892 Posts
On November 10 2011 09:11 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 09:03 IlIlIlIl wrote:On November 10 2011 08:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 08:51 IlIlIlIl wrote:On November 10 2011 07:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 07:39 Scufo wrote:On November 10 2011 07:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 07:27 Scufo wrote:On November 10 2011 06:39 NineteenSC2 wrote:On November 10 2011 06:06 Talack wrote:
I'm glad that all the protoss all-ins like 6-gate and immortal bust are not being looked at but the late-game of terran is being nerfed ><
God I hate how they balance this game around players with insane micro but the leagues like low-mid masters get screwed when they can't do that but their macro mechanics are solid. Really really hard when both sides are able to make huge armies and the terran player is expected to play x1000 better just to compete with the a-moving with a FF or a storm tossed here and there.
Late game TvP is broken. I don't see how the blizzard developer team does not see it and does not make changes. I think emp was nerfed cause late game terran is op, not protoss. You're doing something wrong. Oh and toss has to: ff, gs, storm, feedback, blink, micro zealots, warp in units in the middle of a battle, spread hts & sentries terran has to: 1a + stim and scoot and shoot What's easier? Late game Terran OP...am I dreaming? Protoss armies ROLL Terran bio with no micro (except Stim) on either side. Chargelots and Colossus absolutely manhandle Marines and Marauders. There's a reason Terran tends to be the aggressor in the early and mid game...if you don't hurt a toss you're in for an uphill battle in the lategame... I think I found your problems. You're supposed to micro your units. And make ghosts and vikings instead of just tier one units against an entire Protoss deathball. You're welcome. My point was, Protoss armies do much better than Terran ones with less-than-superb micro. It's a real problem for Plat-Diamond level players. There's a reason why Terran is the least played race there. Oh, I thought it was because all the Terrans had already moved up into Code S. Just kidding, but I feel that the necessary micro for both races is about even, and when Protoss don't hit forcefields or storms, they lose the game just as often as when Terrans don't split their units or cast EMPs. I think it averages out pretty well. No, the micro is NOT even. Terran has to micro way more, I thought that was common knowledge? Think about it, how much micro do you have to do with a zealot? Or with colossus? Point is you can get away with not microing as protoss. Your units are way more beefy and don't die as quick. A-move zealot/archon is brutal to deal with if you don't have perfect micro. NineteenSC2 already mentioned multiple necessary micro-moves for Protoss ("ff, gs, storm, feedback, blink, micro zealots, warp in units in the middle of a battle, spread hts & sentries"), which wasn't even all of them (moving colossi back against vikings, warp prism mechanics, etc.), so for you to suggest that Protoss only uses zealots, colossi, and archons (and therefore we only a-move) is ridiculous. Do you realize that Protoss has far more spells to cast? What does that mean to you?A lot of Protoss micro comes from the spellcasting aspect. A lot of the Terran micro comes from the splitting of the units (and not much else- just ghosts). Believe me, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt when I say that it probably evens out. If you think casting ff's or storms is hard micro.... Idk what to say. Spellcasting is probably the easiest micro in the game. And I never see ANY protoss use blink at all vs. terran lmao, so you can just rule that one out completely. Go to darglein's micro trainer and choose the terran one "death ball" or whatever it's called and see for yourself how much harder it is. To be fair, blink isn't that great in a straight up fight. The most useful it can be for Protoss is to reposition to snipe vikings or to escape when poking. Other than that, blink is mostly a gimmick for bypassing front bunkers in an all-in scenario. Even in PvZ, the benefits it affords are in expanding an arc against low range roaches and escape a favorable engagement before it swings the other way. Its value in a straight up fight to the death is grossly exaggerated and does little to do more than amplify a bigger army slightly.
You still see it everytime at high level.
They use it to try to snipe medivacs, ghosts, vikings or some random units. And it's really useful to reposition against vikings.
Looks like IlIlIlIl never watches high level games though.
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