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On October 30 2011 01:23 archonOOid wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why this is happening, right now? What actors are responsible for the shift? The fans, the players, kespa, the tv channels, blizzard or the queen of blades?
TV ratings for Proleague are half of what they used to be before SAviOr's scandal. KeSPA is struggling to find sponsors for a new season and they're out of options so they think switching to SC2 will somehow save the ratings. They probably saw the huge international audience and wanted a piece of that pie.
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On October 30 2011 01:30 omgbbq2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 00:12 seraphe wrote:On October 29 2011 23:52 Rinnegan5 wrote:
I am sorry if I came across abit harsh. I believe you guys if you say BW was amazing but I seriously think for Esports and SC2 in particular it would be amazing if both the BW and SC2 merged. I think foreign fans would be even more excited to see these players coming. Yes the BW scene would suffer but the SC2 scene would probably double in being more amazing. There are a few fans left for BW outside of Korea but majority of current Esport fans would rather watch SC2 and the best players in the world(as seen at Blizzcon). In short..I want Esports to grow and sometimes another game suffers from that. I'd rather look at the big picture and see Esports grow all over the world instead of only being amazing in Korea. The "growth of esports" argument is completely fail. How is it relevant to our interests at all? Soccer is more popular in the world than American football. American football players also make far more money than soccer players in America, hence why soccer has a hard time growing in America. Why go pro in one sport when going pro in another pays so much better? Therefore, for the good of soccer, and for the good of global sports, American football should die out so that the youth of America can focus on the sport that's popular in the rest of the world, and not the one that's only played in 1 country. Because obviously the one played in only 1 country doesn't fit your criteria of "sport." Sports have to be international, right? Try explaining that to American football fans. Because I'm sure they care more about "the growth of sports" internationally than they do about the game they love. I don't give a shit about esports, not if it comes to the detriment of the game I support. Esports expanding globally means nothing if I can't enjoy it. Sure, it's selfish. But this is the entertainment industry. I have no obligation or desire to support anything that doesn't entertain me. If watching the BW pros switch is actually worth entertainment value, then so be it. That's great. Just don't force these terrible arguments on us like "you should be happy because esports is growing", when many of us could care less. It's not about esports. It's about BW. this is indeed very selfish and therefore justice prevails. if you cling on to bw forever, you will not only hinder the growth of sc2, but the growth of esports as a whole. you have to realize that you are the minority, and the majority would want the push to make sc2 and esports move forward. i hope that in time, you will understand this is not about your own personal interests and gains.
No, I don't think it does. People who love BW have little to no influence over the direction BW takes. We can't do anything to change whether or not everyone switches teams. All we can do is to say "well shit the game I love is getting replaced".
We're not hindering anything. This e-sports is being hindered by BW makes no sense, is ridiculous, and needs to stop being spouted by people as if it's BW people that's giving everyone a hard time.
If anything, we're the ones having a hard time thinking about the future of BW.
Oh, and what do you know, I just see Oystein not streaming BW, but SC2. Sadface.
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On October 30 2011 01:30 omgbbq2 wrote:
i hope that in time, you will understand this is not about your own personal interests and gains.
And i hope in time you grow up to realize, to you its only about your own personal interests and gains.
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Wow, just wow. Something to take note of here is just how *long* they were stuck in platinum.
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Russian Federation3 Posts
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I hope the negotiations go well. Not sure if they will go full on SC2 yet. The implications though... wow.
No more BW? A flood of new Korean SC2 players? I wonder if all our current fave players now will be completely irrelevant (MC, Nestea, MVP) if the flood comes with those ultra good BW players. SC2 timeline will be defined post-flood and pre-flood. Or maybe only a few will really excel at SC2 and most others will be cannon fodder like the rest.
Considering the state of BW, I think this is a move to test the waters for now in the face of a growing SC2. My only concern is that HOTS previews at Blizzcon didn't exactly inspire confidence in the longevity in this game hahah.
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On October 30 2011 00:34 Hittomogasin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 23:50 BLinD-RawR wrote:On October 29 2011 23:45 Hittomogasin wrote:On October 29 2011 23:42 BLinD-RawR wrote:On October 29 2011 23:39 Rinnegan5 wrote:On October 29 2011 23:20 fabiano wrote:
This is really sad.
The amount of SC2 fans who know no shit about BW or esports come here and say things like Rinnegan5 is far superior than nice SC2 fans like ColdLava... you bad SC2 fans give horrible image of the scene, stop being unreasonably dumb.
This thread is derailed big time. There was no Esports scene before the SC2. There was a bubble when CS 1.6 was hot and the Quake series. But there was seriously nothing as big as it now is with SC2. Big fucking halls with fans as far as the eye can see? Not even Fatal1ty, NiP(for the oldschool CS 1.6) and SK in its glory days could manage this. I admit I dont know crap about BW but I dont need to. I know it was big in Korea and dead outside of it. A game only being big in Korea is not what I call a big Esports scene. To me Esports should be an international with both Koreans and Foreigners(as we call them) so you get the feeling that you are watching the best of the world. Call me a bad fan or whatever but I just want Esports to get bigger and seriously dont give a crap if BW gets buried because of it! there was esports before SC2,it just wasn't big compared to what it is now,to say that Esports doesn't exist like like saying single celled organisms do not exist. learn to respect BW and its community. I cant respect anyone who demands respect. then don't trash on it,acting as if BW does not exist and that it did not impact the growth of SC2(not Esports because SC2 is not Esports,its jsut a part of it). Ill quote my self from few responces before: Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 23:40 Hittomogasin wrote:On October 29 2011 23:20 fabiano wrote:
This is really sad.
The amount of SC2 fans who know no shit about BW or esports come here and say things like Rinnegan5 is far superior than nice SC2 fans like ColdLava... you bad SC2 fans give horrible image of the scene, stop being unreasonably dumb.
This thread is derailed big time. And this is the best you can come up with? + Show Spoiler +Just fyi: this is not targeted at fabiano specifically. There are alot of bitter BW elitists running around in this thread hating on SC2. Hypocrite is one word that comes to mind... all you seem to know is BW, whitch is fine. Just dont come into SC2 thread acting high and mighty, i wont kiss your ass simply because you hapen to like BW more than SC2. I respect BW for what it did and does, but i cant respect someone coming across bitter and arrogant, complaning about the game i enjoy to watch. Keep your garbage in your own forum section, make a thread about the subject where you can bash SC2 all you want, if thats your cup of tea. I do not respect people who demand respect. Respect is something that you can earn and loose easily. Reading this thread and the disrespect people show to SC2 is very good at negating all the respect i have for BW fans... and then they come at me and demand that i should respect them? I will tell them to go **** them selfs.
You don't have to respect those people. People should, however, respect the game of BW, what it has achieved, the cultural impact it has imparted in Korea and the players who make their living off of the game. SC2 would not be the same if it wasn't for the long life of BW and what the game accomplished.
There are too many ignorant people who think e-sports started with SC2 and want their game to benefit at the expense of BW and the people who enjoy it. It is a sad attitude to have and is hugely disrespectful to a community of people who have been together for close to a decade now.
I myself greatly enjoy SC2 and regularly watch events like MLG, Dreamhack, GSL whenever I can. The game has come a long way from something that was utterly detestable and the furthest thing from SC to a game that I can enjoy playing and watching. There are still a lot of flaws and fans of SC2 should recognize and try there best to have Blizzard fix. These are issues that will not allow SC2 to grow into a game that spans decades but only years. I think most people who have a background in Starcraft will tell you there is a little magic missing from the game that is not allowing it to achieve the same heights BW did.
If these players are going to switch permanently to SC2 I want the game to become something that utilizes the full extent of these RTS Gods' skills.
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Could someone explain to a non BW player (me) wo these pro's are? Which are the really good ones?
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On October 30 2011 01:38 Ownos wrote:
I hope the negotiations go well. Not sure if they will go full on SC2 yet. The implications though... wow.
No more BW? A flood of new Korean SC2 players? I wonder if all our current fave players now will be completely irrelevant (MC, Nestea, MVP) if the flood comes with those ultra good BW players. SC2 timeline will be defined post-flood and pre-flood. Or maybe only a few will really excel at SC2 and most others will be cannon fodder like the rest.
Considering the state of BW, I think this is a move to test the waters for now in the face of a growing SC2. My only concern is that HOTS previews at Blizzcon didn't exactly inspire confidence in the longevity in this game hahah.
i thought it looked great. dunno what all the hate is about.
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On October 30 2011 01:34 Clefairy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 01:23 archonOOid wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why this is happening, right now? What actors are responsible for the shift? The fans, the players, kespa, the tv channels, blizzard or the queen of blades? TV ratings for Proleague are half of what they used to be before SAviOr's scandal. KeSPA is struggling to find sponsors for a new season and they're out of options so they think switching to SC2 will somehow save the ratings. They probably saw the huge international audience and wanted a piece of that pie.
A good idea to get a piece of that pie before it's well out of their reach.
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On October 30 2011 01:37 Oktyabr wrote:Wow, just wow. Something to take note of here is just how *long* they were stuck in platinum.
You mean because ladders were locked :p
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I know, I'm not disputing your evidence. I'm saying that a jump in platinum to master within 1 week is not achievable at this point in time unless the player has some prior RTS experience. But I'm not too sure if these are conclusively the bw pros in question.
EDIT: The trauma guy looks highly suspect, if he isn't a smurf account then he seems certain to be one of them already. The guy with the void ray icon doesn't seem like one to me (unless he's been practicing even before the coach gave the order), and the rest jumping from gold straight in after the lock looks way too scary.
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On October 30 2011 01:39 Sandermatt wrote:Could someone explain to a non BW player (me) wo these pro's are? Which are the really good ones?
Midas is the only name I recognize. He was an A-teamer who popularized the FD Terran build in 2004. Hydralisk might be hydra. Everyone else is either not using their name or really unknown.
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How did you get info that these were BW pros?
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On October 30 2011 01:44 raf3776 wrote:How did you get info that these were BW pros?
Speculation.
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On October 30 2011 01:44 raf3776 wrote:How did you get info that these were BW pros?
no 1 is capable of pulling out high masters at like 80% with no SC2 exp.(on KR server no less) .If anything they're smurfs.
its horrible speculation at best.
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On October 30 2011 01:46 VPCursed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 01:44 raf3776 wrote:How did you get info that these were BW pros? no 1 is capable of pulling out high masters at like 80% with no SC2 exp..If anything they're smurfs.
That's also just hypothetical. I'm pretty sure people who were godly at BW and had master hands and keyboard skills could do it. 
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On October 30 2011 01:46 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 01:46 VPCursed wrote:On October 30 2011 01:44 raf3776 wrote:How did you get info that these were BW pros? no 1 is capable of pulling out high masters at like 80% with no SC2 exp..If anything they're smurfs. That's also just hypothetical. I'm pretty sure people who were godly at BW and had master hands and keyboard skills could do it.
no, i dont care if you're flash. Your going to get destroyed not knowing the current meta game in korea. period.
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On October 29 2011 06:48 Wuster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 06:26 RedMosquito wrote:On October 29 2011 06:09 Wuster wrote:On October 29 2011 05:22 skyzzang wrote:
Just take a look at Julyzerg. What happend to him in SC2 ?
One of the reason why he's doing poorly is because
1) Skill ceiling for SC2 is very very very low compared to BW
2) Easy interface, Binding, Unit control
3) Zerg's specialty does not shine in SC2 as much as it did in BW, which was speed and flank.
aka, one sentry blocking the ramp.
People say this all the time (well 1 and 2). And yet, we still haven't seen an game where someone 1) hit every worker (non-zerg) 2) never got supply blocked 3) had perfect overlord/creep spread As for the interface, when I watch SC2, every major battle involves several scenes of miscontrol. Sure a lot of it is bad players keeping everything on one hot key, but things like: 1 - not target firing tanks 2 - not spreading colossus 3 - not keeping HT/Infestors from running to their death when they're out of energy these things keep happening, and are just the common examples (FF micro and unit spreading isn't really consistent either) The skill ceiling for SC2 is still a long way from being reached, despite the easier interface / infinite control groups / ect. As for July, it's pretty simple for a long time he played every matchup exactly as if it were still BW, and when he wasn't playing them as if it were BW, he certainly wasn't playing them with a high SC2 understanding. Since when do people think July isn't good at SC2?? I guess top 5 zerg in the world isn't good enough for some People have high standards for him, because he was recently removed from an OSL (even if it was a lucky draw as I've been told) and has shown that he can dominate through different periods of time. I don't think July is top-5 in the world right now, but I don't think he's an all-in newb as certain people like to claim (the thing I dislike about watching ESV is listening to Orb mock July every time a Zerg goes all-in) either. He's a work in progress and while he's good, he's not championship caliber. Watch his most recent ZvZs and tell me he knows how that match-up works for example. And while it can be unforgiving, it's not a total coinflip as Nestea, Losira, Sen or Dimaga have shown.
You're either misunderstanding me or making things up on the spot. I never mock July, I praise him. I explain how July has said if he sees a protoss make a bad forge walloff with a pylon or cannon in front he will baneling bust it every time, and that's a good thing. I most often mention July when I see a zerg NOT doing this, because it pains me to see bad protosses get away with trash wall-offs just because the zerg decides to macro instead of taking the free win with the bane bust.
Sorry if you thought I was bashing July, but please understand it was the complete opposite. He's a truly fantastic player who has earned his place in esports over the past decade. Hell, he's the guy that invented muta harass in Brood War (at least in the form it is in today).
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Broodwar, I love you.
Over the last 4 years you became the biggest thing in my life. If something in my life was wrong, I had you to fall back on, you were always there to make me happy, a long with everyone in the brood war community. Your departure will be a limb ripped off of me.
But you Broodwar, created a legacy like no other. Everyone will know the day when Bisu walked the stage over his victory over Savior, everyone will have heard of firebathero and his shenanigans, everyone will see Jaedong's amazing ensnare + lurker against Fantasy. The Hive tech ZvZ of Zero, the star-sense and perfect carrier timing of Stork, the old days of Nal-ra and his hallucinated arbiter recalls, the true skill of the tornado Terran. From the time Grr won his first OSL, to the time we see JangBi finally take his...
Broodwar is a story, and eventually all stories have to end. But the ones it wrote, the rises of emperors that controlled the game, five of them, called by the word that must not be said. 4 Terrans and one Zerg. The battle was humans against slimy bugs, but protoss, don't worry. You are the ones who started and ended this chapter. And your counterpart my friend, well let's just say the story is about to unfold. And once and for all we will see if Broodwar will remain the game that hails supreme, or will it become a trilogy that spans numerous decades to create a story that will sweep the globe forever.
November 1st 2000-September 17th 2011
My passion - RIP <3
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EPT
