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On October 29 2011 23:46 mtwlinux wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 23:45 rontol wrote:
i think this is a great news... bw is a great game...
but something that start will reach it's end point after certain duration....
we should embrace each other (bw & sc2 players)... we're heading into same direction anyways
we love e-sports The thing that you seem to not understand is that some people don't give a rat ass of "Esports", they just care about BW, like me.
i'm sure it's hard to see how the game we loved being left behind, in software they normally coined the term EOL or EOS....
like Windows XP.... it just reached 10 years old... from what i know Microsoft will end its support in about 2 years
yes ofc... ppl will still love bw but there will be less support and less people inside the scene moving forward... (people getting older, getting married, new job etc)
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On October 29 2011 23:46 mtwlinux wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 23:45 rontol wrote:
i think this is a great news... bw is a great game...
but something that start will reach it's end point after certain duration....
we should embrace each other (bw & sc2 players)... we're heading into same direction anyways
we love e-sports The thing that you seem to not understand is that some people don't give a rat ass of "Esports", they just care about BW, like me.
I feel very sorry, that the scene you love is dying. But please do not attack the SC2 fans out of this anger, they are not responsible. BW was decreasing in Korea before SC2 came out, and even if SC2 would be the reason, everybody decides himself which games he wants to watch or play.
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On October 29 2011 23:52 Rinnegan5 wrote:
I am sorry if I came across abit harsh. I believe you guys if you say BW was amazing but I seriously think for Esports and SC2 in particular it would be amazing if both the BW and SC2 merged. I think foreign fans would be even more excited to see these players coming. Yes the BW scene would suffer but the SC2 scene would probably double in being more amazing. There are a few fans left for BW outside of Korea but majority of current Esport fans would rather watch SC2 and the best players in the world(as seen at Blizzcon). In short..I want Esports to grow and sometimes another game suffers from that. I'd rather look at the big picture and see Esports grow all over the world instead of only being amazing in Korea.
You're not looking at the *big picture*. You're only looking at SC2 and that's all you care about, like you've said so. *Esports* is going to grow all over the world whether the big guns in BW switch or not.
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On October 29 2011 23:49 ACrow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 23:20 fabiano wrote:
This is really sad.
The amount of SC2 fans who know no shit about BW or esports come here and say things like Rinnegan5 is far superior than nice SC2 fans like ColdLava... you bad SC2 fans give horrible image of the scene, stop being unreasonably dumb.
This thread is derailed big time. You know that this is SC2 section of TL right? So in fact it's BW fans coming to SC2 forum preaching how good BW is and how bad SC2 is and that everyone that didn't follow BW should shut up. Again, I don't get what all the fuss is about, why not just cheer for your BW idols if they should decide to make the switch? Bw is not going anywhere, you'll still be able to play and all...
You can be sure as hell that I will cheer for Bisu and co.
I might even switch to SC2 IF they revolutionize the game as we know now.
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I was a bw elitist, having watched since the boxer days. Stopped in about 2002 then resumed 2008 till present. However, after watching much of gsl, I know believe sc2 is the superior game and now almost exclusively watch it.
I loved watching bw though but now prefer sc2. Am excited to see the bw pros play sc2. Also don't think its a done deal that they'll dominate.
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I got teary eyed when I saw the crowd at Blizzcon. I have been following the Esports scene for along time but never saw something like this. I want to see this again and more often. The BW pros coming over to SC2 can only make this better.
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On October 29 2011 23:59 Oktyabr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 23:52 Rinnegan5 wrote:
I am sorry if I came across abit harsh. I believe you guys if you say BW was amazing but I seriously think for Esports and SC2 in particular it would be amazing if both the BW and SC2 merged. I think foreign fans would be even more excited to see these players coming. Yes the BW scene would suffer but the SC2 scene would probably double in being more amazing. There are a few fans left for BW outside of Korea but majority of current Esport fans would rather watch SC2 and the best players in the world(as seen at Blizzcon). In short..I want Esports to grow and sometimes another game suffers from that. I'd rather look at the big picture and see Esports grow all over the world instead of only being amazing in Korea. You're not looking at the *big picture*. You're only looking at SC2 and that's all you care about, like you've said so. *Esports* is going to grow all over the world whether the big guns in BW switch or not.
Actually I do not think that the world is better or worse if Esport grows, so this Esport growth is not so important for me. What I know is that these big guns from BW are considered very skilled. The SC2 players I see playing are doing many mistakes. This BW players may have the potential to increase the level at which the game is played at the top. This would make SC2 make a lot more fun for me to watch. Therefore I am personally excited that they switch. But I understand that you BW players feel different about this and am sorry that this is happening to you.
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To me, I love Starcraft; Brood War and SC2. As long there is an overall growth, I'm happy. When I hear remarks that SC2 won't evolve, all I have to do is recall GSL Open 1 and compare it against any recent tournament.
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great for the game.
Personally I don't care about e-sports whatsoever as I don't think it's good if gaming gets too popular (because it's too much a waste of time) but for sc2 it will be great. Splitting communities and thus prizes/tournaments is not good for the pro scene, one big scene is much easier to get huge tournaments going.
Ofcourse seeing how fast these BW pro's will reach high levels in sc2 will be mighty interesting too if it happens
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This might seem harsh, but I want BW to die as soon as possible. The reason is simple: I want the best players to play the game I love. I respect BW, but I don't watch it, and I don't really like it. A lot of the current BW pros would no doubt be at the very top of the SC2 pyramid, and it would be great to see them play.
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United States7639 Posts
On October 29 2011 23:52 Rinnegan5 wrote:
I am sorry if I came across abit harsh. I believe you guys if you say BW was amazing but I seriously think for Esports and SC2 in particular it would be amazing if both the BW and SC2 merged. I think foreign fans would be even more excited to see these players coming. Yes the BW scene would suffer but the SC2 scene would probably double in being more amazing. There are a few fans left for BW outside of Korea but majority of current Esport fans would rather watch SC2 and the best players in the world(as seen at Blizzcon). In short..I want Esports to grow and sometimes another game suffers from that. I'd rather look at the big picture and see Esports grow all over the world instead of only being amazing in Korea.
The "growth of esports" argument is completely fail. How is it relevant to our interests at all?
Soccer is more popular in the world than American football. American football players also make far more money than soccer players in America, hence why soccer has a hard time growing in America. Why go pro in one sport when going pro in another pays so much better? Therefore, for the good of soccer, and for the good of global sports, American football should die out so that the youth of America can focus on the sport that's popular in the rest of the world, and not the one that's only played in 1 country. Because obviously the one played in only 1 country doesn't fit your criteria of "sport." Sports have to be international, right? Try explaining that to American football fans. Because I'm sure they care more about "the growth of sports" internationally than they do about the game they love.
I don't give a shit about esports, not if it comes to the detriment of the game I support. Esports expanding globally means nothing if I can't enjoy it. Sure, it's selfish. But this is the entertainment industry. I have no obligation or desire to support anything that doesn't entertain me. If watching the BW pros switch is actually worth entertainment value, then so be it. That's great. Just don't force these terrible arguments on us like "you should be happy because esports is growing", when many of us could care less. It's not about esports. It's about BW.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50196 Posts
On October 30 2011 00:07 Deshkar wrote:
To me, I love Starcraft; Brood War and SC2. As long there is an overall growth, I'm happy. When I hear remarks that SC2 won't evolve, all I have to do is recall GSL Open 1 and compare it against any recent tournament.
anyone who says SC2 does not have the potential to evolve is just sad,of course the game has the potential to grow,the point is how do we tap into this potential,and how do we use this potential.
I'm sure that if done right that SC2 can be enjoyable to everyone in the entire world and by everyone I mean even Diehard BW fans like myself can enjoy the game.
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On October 30 2011 00:12 seraphe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 23:52 Rinnegan5 wrote:
I am sorry if I came across abit harsh. I believe you guys if you say BW was amazing but I seriously think for Esports and SC2 in particular it would be amazing if both the BW and SC2 merged. I think foreign fans would be even more excited to see these players coming. Yes the BW scene would suffer but the SC2 scene would probably double in being more amazing. There are a few fans left for BW outside of Korea but majority of current Esport fans would rather watch SC2 and the best players in the world(as seen at Blizzcon). In short..I want Esports to grow and sometimes another game suffers from that. I'd rather look at the big picture and see Esports grow all over the world instead of only being amazing in Korea. The "growth of esports" argument is completely fail. How is it relevant to our interests at all? Soccer is more popular in the world than American football. American football players also make far more money than soccer players in America, hence why soccer has a hard time growing in America. Why go pro in one sport when going pro in another pays so much better? Therefore, for the good of soccer, and for the good of global sports, American football should die out so that the youth of America can focus on the sport that's popular in the rest of the world, and not the one that's only played in 1 country. Because obviously the one played in only 1 country doesn't fit your criteria of "sport." Sports have to be international, right? Try explaining that to American football fans. Because I'm sure they care more about "the growth of sports" internationally than they do about the game they love. I don't give a shit about esports, not if it comes to the detriment of the game I support. Esports expanding globally means nothing if I can't enjoy it. Sure, it's selfish. But this is the entertainment industry. I have no obligation or desire to support anything that doesn't entertain me. If watching the BW pros switch is actually worth entertainment value, then so be it. That's great. Just don't force these terrible arguments on us like "you should be happy because esports is growing", when many of us could care less. It's not about esports. It's about BW.
Try giving your "Football vs Soccer" argument to a sc2 player that doesnt make any money at all. I am not saying BW doesnt have a right to exist but I do think the whole Esports scene benefits if SC2 gets bigger. For example the fighting games scene and other great games which dont have alot of viewers yet. Once the ball gets rolling this could be a huge step in the right direction.
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On October 29 2011 23:52 Rinnegan5 wrote:
I am sorry if I came across abit harsh. I believe you guys if you say BW was amazing but I seriously think for Esports and SC2 in particular it would be amazing if both the BW and SC2 merged. I think foreign fans would be even more excited to see these players coming. Yes the BW scene would suffer but the SC2 scene would probably double in being more amazing. There are a few fans left for BW outside of Korea but majority of current Esport fans would rather watch SC2 and the best players in the world(as seen at Blizzcon). In short..I want Esports to grow and sometimes another game suffers from that. I'd rather look at the big picture and see Esports grow all over the world instead of only being amazing in Korea.
There actually was a foreign team during the early years of BW; the first OSL was won by a foreigner and said team was quite decent, but as the skill gap continued to grow every foreigner ended up leaving the scene.
Many others tried to get into Korea after that, but they all failed. In SC2, current top foreigners can easily compete with the best koreans, right? Top foreigners in BW couldn't even come close to B-teamers.
Now, if these new group of players do manage to widen the skill gap, it could only mean the end of the 'foreign dream'. Big korean corporations will start sponsoring their teams/leagues and suddenly there will be no need for them to leave their country. The odds of that happening are huge... lock some of the best RTS minds in the world in a house while playing 10~12 hours a day and what do you think you'll get?
We'll see though... I hope this doesn't happen too quickly because I enjoy the current foreign/korean rivalry, and it's better when we know that 'our' guys can at least not get roflstomped too easily by them 
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On October 29 2011 23:24 BLIZZ123 wrote:
Flash vs MMA will be a dream come true!!!!!!!!
Give me Flash vs Jaedong any day
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Sad days for BW ahead =(
But happy days for SC2!
Personally I cant wait to see Jaedong and Flash duke it out in pro-league finals of SC2!!!! That thought alone makes me salivate.
My only concern is what is going to happen to current Korean SC2 teams. THey dont have near the sponsership or funding that some of the broodwar teams have. My guess is the broodwar teams will snatch up the top few players from each team with salary offers and the current ones will struggle.
Hopefully it just attracts more sponsers and some of the korean sc2 teams can start salary payments to keep their players
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On October 30 2011 00:19 Seirios wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 23:52 Rinnegan5 wrote:
I am sorry if I came across abit harsh. I believe you guys if you say BW was amazing but I seriously think for Esports and SC2 in particular it would be amazing if both the BW and SC2 merged. I think foreign fans would be even more excited to see these players coming. Yes the BW scene would suffer but the SC2 scene would probably double in being more amazing. There are a few fans left for BW outside of Korea but majority of current Esport fans would rather watch SC2 and the best players in the world(as seen at Blizzcon). In short..I want Esports to grow and sometimes another game suffers from that. I'd rather look at the big picture and see Esports grow all over the world instead of only being amazing in Korea. There actually was a foreign team during the early years of BW; the first OSL was won by a foreigner and said team was quite decent, but as the skill gap continued to grow every foreigner ended up leaving the scene. Many others tried to get into Korea after that, but they all failed. In SC2, current top foreigners can easily compete with the best koreans, right? Top foreigners in BW couldn't even come close to B-teamers. Now, if these new group of players do manage to widen the skill gap, it could only mean the end of the 'foreign dream'. Big korean corporations will start sponsoring their teams/leagues and suddenly there will be no need for them to leave their country. The odds of that happening are huge... lock some of the best RTS minds in the world in a house while playing 10~12 hours a day and what do you think you'll get? We'll see though... I hope this doesn't happen too quickly because I enjoy the current foreign/korean rivalry, and it's better when we know that 'our' guys can at least not get roflstomped too easily by them
While I see that the BW players are extremly strong, they will need some time to get into the game. Earlier this year the koreans absolutly dominated the MLG's. Now the Foreigners can compete better with the koreans. If the top players switched immediatly the skill gap might have been very large, but this way, the top foreigner teams could build up and go into partnerships with teams in korea. Their players can recieve korean training. And with SC2 beeing much larger outside of korea there might likely be a large influx of talent in the foreign scene.
So long story short: We had a lot of time to get ready for them, lets hope it was enough to make things interessting.
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On October 29 2011 23:50 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 23:45 Hittomogasin wrote:On October 29 2011 23:42 BLinD-RawR wrote:On October 29 2011 23:39 Rinnegan5 wrote:On October 29 2011 23:20 fabiano wrote:
This is really sad.
The amount of SC2 fans who know no shit about BW or esports come here and say things like Rinnegan5 is far superior than nice SC2 fans like ColdLava... you bad SC2 fans give horrible image of the scene, stop being unreasonably dumb.
This thread is derailed big time. There was no Esports scene before the SC2. There was a bubble when CS 1.6 was hot and the Quake series. But there was seriously nothing as big as it now is with SC2. Big fucking halls with fans as far as the eye can see? Not even Fatal1ty, NiP(for the oldschool CS 1.6) and SK in its glory days could manage this. I admit I dont know crap about BW but I dont need to. I know it was big in Korea and dead outside of it. A game only being big in Korea is not what I call a big Esports scene. To me Esports should be an international with both Koreans and Foreigners(as we call them) so you get the feeling that you are watching the best of the world. Call me a bad fan or whatever but I just want Esports to get bigger and seriously dont give a crap if BW gets buried because of it! there was esports before SC2,it just wasn't big compared to what it is now,to say that Esports doesn't exist like like saying single celled organisms do not exist. learn to respect BW and its community. I cant respect anyone who demands respect. then don't trash on it,acting as if BW does not exist and that it did not impact the growth of SC2(not Esports because SC2 is not Esports,its jsut a part of it).
Ill quote my self from few responces before:
On October 29 2011 23:40 Hittomogasin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 23:20 fabiano wrote:
This is really sad.
The amount of SC2 fans who know no shit about BW or esports come here and say things like Rinnegan5 is far superior than nice SC2 fans like ColdLava... you bad SC2 fans give horrible image of the scene, stop being unreasonably dumb.
This thread is derailed big time. And this is the best you can come up with? + Show Spoiler +Just fyi: this is not targeted at fabiano specifically. There are alot of bitter BW elitists running around in this thread hating on SC2. Hypocrite is one word that comes to mind... all you seem to know is BW, whitch is fine. Just dont come into SC2 thread acting high and mighty, i wont kiss your ass simply because you hapen to like BW more than SC2. I respect BW for what it did and does, but i cant respect someone coming across bitter and arrogant, complaning about the game i enjoy to watch. Keep your garbage in your own forum section, make a thread about the subject where you can bash SC2 all you want, if thats your cup of tea.
I do not respect people who demand respect. Respect is something that you can earn and loose easily. Reading this thread and the disrespect people show to SC2 is very good at negating all the respect i have for BW fans... and then they come at me and demand that i should respect them? I will tell them to go **** them selfs.
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On October 30 2011 00:34 Hittomogasin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 23:50 BLinD-RawR wrote:On October 29 2011 23:45 Hittomogasin wrote:On October 29 2011 23:42 BLinD-RawR wrote:On October 29 2011 23:39 Rinnegan5 wrote:On October 29 2011 23:20 fabiano wrote:
This is really sad.
The amount of SC2 fans who know no shit about BW or esports come here and say things like Rinnegan5 is far superior than nice SC2 fans like ColdLava... you bad SC2 fans give horrible image of the scene, stop being unreasonably dumb.
This thread is derailed big time. There was no Esports scene before the SC2. There was a bubble when CS 1.6 was hot and the Quake series. But there was seriously nothing as big as it now is with SC2. Big fucking halls with fans as far as the eye can see? Not even Fatal1ty, NiP(for the oldschool CS 1.6) and SK in its glory days could manage this. I admit I dont know crap about BW but I dont need to. I know it was big in Korea and dead outside of it. A game only being big in Korea is not what I call a big Esports scene. To me Esports should be an international with both Koreans and Foreigners(as we call them) so you get the feeling that you are watching the best of the world. Call me a bad fan or whatever but I just want Esports to get bigger and seriously dont give a crap if BW gets buried because of it! there was esports before SC2,it just wasn't big compared to what it is now,to say that Esports doesn't exist like like saying single celled organisms do not exist. learn to respect BW and its community. I cant respect anyone who demands respect. then don't trash on it,acting as if BW does not exist and that it did not impact the growth of SC2(not Esports because SC2 is not Esports,its jsut a part of it). Ill quote my self from few responces before: Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 23:40 Hittomogasin wrote:On October 29 2011 23:20 fabiano wrote:
This is really sad.
The amount of SC2 fans who know no shit about BW or esports come here and say things like Rinnegan5 is far superior than nice SC2 fans like ColdLava... you bad SC2 fans give horrible image of the scene, stop being unreasonably dumb.
This thread is derailed big time. And this is the best you can come up with? + Show Spoiler +Just fyi: this is not targeted at fabiano specifically. There are alot of bitter BW elitists running around in this thread hating on SC2. Hypocrite is one word that comes to mind... all you seem to know is BW, whitch is fine. Just dont come into SC2 thread acting high and mighty, i wont kiss your ass simply because you hapen to like BW more than SC2. I respect BW for what it did and does, but i cant respect someone coming across bitter and arrogant, complaning about the game i enjoy to watch. Keep your garbage in your own forum section, make a thread about the subject where you can bash SC2 all you want, if thats your cup of tea. I do not respect people who demand respect. Respect is something that you can earn and loose easily. Reading this thread and the disrespect people show to SC2 is very good at negating all the respect i have for BW fans... and then they come at me and demand that i should respect them? I will tell them to go **** them selfs.
If someone thinks SC2 is a bad game, then it's their opinion. If someone thinks SC2 is superior to the other because of game design or whatever other reason, that's not a reason to say "oh you show disrespect to the game". It's fair game to argue if one game is better because it's all a matter of perspective.
It's another thing to target the community of course, but very few people in this thread have actually gone out of their way to insult one side or the other.
These are some bold generalizations that are just false.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50196 Posts
On October 30 2011 00:34 Hittomogasin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 23:50 BLinD-RawR wrote:On October 29 2011 23:45 Hittomogasin wrote:On October 29 2011 23:42 BLinD-RawR wrote:On October 29 2011 23:39 Rinnegan5 wrote:On October 29 2011 23:20 fabiano wrote:
This is really sad.
The amount of SC2 fans who know no shit about BW or esports come here and say things like Rinnegan5 is far superior than nice SC2 fans like ColdLava... you bad SC2 fans give horrible image of the scene, stop being unreasonably dumb.
This thread is derailed big time. There was no Esports scene before the SC2. There was a bubble when CS 1.6 was hot and the Quake series. But there was seriously nothing as big as it now is with SC2. Big fucking halls with fans as far as the eye can see? Not even Fatal1ty, NiP(for the oldschool CS 1.6) and SK in its glory days could manage this. I admit I dont know crap about BW but I dont need to. I know it was big in Korea and dead outside of it. A game only being big in Korea is not what I call a big Esports scene. To me Esports should be an international with both Koreans and Foreigners(as we call them) so you get the feeling that you are watching the best of the world. Call me a bad fan or whatever but I just want Esports to get bigger and seriously dont give a crap if BW gets buried because of it! there was esports before SC2,it just wasn't big compared to what it is now,to say that Esports doesn't exist like like saying single celled organisms do not exist. learn to respect BW and its community. I cant respect anyone who demands respect. then don't trash on it,acting as if BW does not exist and that it did not impact the growth of SC2(not Esports because SC2 is not Esports,its jsut a part of it). Ill quote my self from few responces before: Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 23:40 Hittomogasin wrote:On October 29 2011 23:20 fabiano wrote:
This is really sad.
The amount of SC2 fans who know no shit about BW or esports come here and say things like Rinnegan5 is far superior than nice SC2 fans like ColdLava... you bad SC2 fans give horrible image of the scene, stop being unreasonably dumb.
This thread is derailed big time. And this is the best you can come up with? + Show Spoiler +Just fyi: this is not targeted at fabiano specifically. There are alot of bitter BW elitists running around in this thread hating on SC2. Hypocrite is one word that comes to mind... all you seem to know is BW, whitch is fine. Just dont come into SC2 thread acting high and mighty, i wont kiss your ass simply because you hapen to like BW more than SC2. I respect BW for what it did and does, but i cant respect someone coming across bitter and arrogant, complaning about the game i enjoy to watch. Keep your garbage in your own forum section, make a thread about the subject where you can bash SC2 all you want, if thats your cup of tea. I do not respect people who demand respect. Respect is something that you can earn and loose easily. Reading this thread and the disrespect people show to SC2 is very good at negating all the respect i have for BW fans... and then they come at me and demand that i should respect them? I will tell them to go **** them selfs.
Its pretty pathetic that you'd tell an entire community to go fuck themselves,I'm sure you're doing a great deal of service to yourself and the community you represent.
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