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On October 30 2011 00:34 Hittomogasin wrote:
I do not respect people who demand respect. Respect is something that you can earn and loose easily. Reading this thread and the disrespect people show to SC2 is very good at negating all the respect i have for BW fans... and then they come at me and demand that i should respect them? I will tell them to go **** them selfs.
Lol and the level of "respect" SC2 dudes show to BW is the same so why u ask them to "respect" SC2 lol. By the way I don't care much about both games the only thing I care is Bisu and I'll follow him mindlessly into whatever game he plays. In fact the majority of BW games that I watch are Bisu's games (I don't watch the game he lost, only the ones that he won), and I watched 0 SC2 game because he doesn't play SC2. But if Bisu switch to SC2 I will watch Bisu SC2 games and won't give a damn about BW anymore (and if he switch to Dota I'll get rid of SC2 too lol). That's how thing should work, the god of beauty should be workshipped, and people should care less about the games and only care about Bisu ^^
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Yeah, BW demands respect. This is TeamLiquid.
Also, all you people talking about "the good of esports..." think about CS 1.6 and CS Source. I don't know the games extremely well, but from what I've heard, CS 1.6 is the much deeper, more intricate game, while CS Source is the glammed-up version that was supposed to replace it as an esport. It created a divided community because a lot of players recognized (and still do) that CS 1.6 was a better game.
I watch/play SC2 because it's easier for me and I've been following it since the beginning, whereas I've never devoted much time to BW. So I wouldn't consider myself a BW fan. But I'm totally willing to acknowledge that BW is a deeper, more balanced game, and I think that us SC2 fans should respect people who are BW fans.
And no, telling people who don't like SC2 that their idols are going to start playing another game that they don't like, and that they should love it "for the good of esports" is a load of crap. Esports doesn't work when everything is done "for esports." It only works when people do it because they like it.
And from what I can tell, BW fans don't like SC2. That's not going to change if Flash follows the money.
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BW had it's good run for sure.
It all has to end sometime. If SC/BW players want to continue making money playing SC, they're going to have to switch over as that's where all the money is at.
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Wow, this thread is a mess, and Chill's little note didn't help at all.
On topic, anything that grows e-sports is good news in my opinion. The international market for starcraft seems to be extremely large, so hopefully this will just make it better.
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On October 30 2011 00:53 ODieN wrote:
BW had it's good run for sure.
It all has to end sometime. If SC/BW players want to continue making money playing SC, they're going to have to switch over as that's where all the money is at.
Well actually no, but maybe in the future. Flash and J-Dog make obscene amounts of money afaik.
Depending on what Kespa does though, you might be right.
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On October 30 2011 00:52 zarepath wrote:
And from what I can tell, BW fans don't like SC2. That's not going to change if Flash follows the money.
Really, its not exactly that they dont like sc2
Its that a lot of people just try to push it down your throat that BW will die, and thats because this shiny, more friendly new game has 'starcraft' in its title.
It really doesnt feel fair, because the game doesnt feel like broodwar, and it doesnt give you the same kind of experience, and yet theres people telling you that it is the upgraded version. Just look at this thread, a whole ton of people going 'just let it die'
Imagine LoL players kept coming to TL and in any thread with any news of any sc2 player, they say 'god when is sc2 gonna die so these guys can come to LoL'
'shit you guys are still playing this thing? ROFL'
If this happened as a regular thing, you'd get pretty pissed at anyone who did it right?
Its not sc2 the game that bw fans dislike, rather a small segment of its community and their dundering, self-absorbed arrogance.
On October 30 2011 00:53 ODieN wrote:
BW had it's good run for sure.
It all has to end sometime. If SC/BW players want to continue making money playing SC, they're going to have to switch over as that's where all the money is at.
This is kinda what I meant. Flashes salary is probably the salary of the top 5 korean sc2 pros put together, its something insane like 200k per year WITHOUT the massive amounts of tournaments that he wins with his ridiculous broodwar skill, which might not really guarantee him the same success in a much more risk based game.
Though you're right in that most pros that arent as good and dont earn as much in BW will probably switch. But its not like sc2 pros are doing much better in korea right now.
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On October 29 2011 22:39 Denis Lachance wrote:
I wish it didn't have to be this way... I wish BW progamers and SC2 progamers were seperate. Now that KeSPA is involved, progamers will play what kespa wants them to.
I'm pretty sure KeSPA doesn't dictate what all of these people do. These players pretty much play for a living. Sure they enjoy themselves probably, but I'm pretty sure money is a big factor in what they do also, and SC2 is going to be where the moneys at now.
What if flash does not want to play SC2? What if his real passion is broodwar? And believe me, it is.
Lol. Are you Flash bro? No, you're not. Stop projecting your feelings onto someone you have probably only read a wiki on and jizzed your pants 100s of times watching him play wishing you were as good as him.
Personally, I like SC2. I think it's a fun game. I'm not very good at it though. The great thing about this game is the fact that I can find an even matched game in an instant. I want to play? Bam. Game.
If you had this kind of matchmaking in BW I would be playing that. BW is my passion. But if It didn't take half an hour to find a game on Iccup I would most likely be playing BW more.
If you suck at SC2, you must suck a BW. So uh, yeah.
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On October 30 2011 01:01 TheAntZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 00:52 zarepath wrote:
And from what I can tell, BW fans don't like SC2. That's not going to change if Flash follows the money. Really, its not exactly that they dont like sc2 Its that a lot of people just try to push it down your throat that BW will die, and thats because this shiny, more friendly new game has 'starcraft' in its title. It really doesnt feel fair, because the game doesnt feel like broodwar, and it doesnt give you the same kind of experience, and yet theres people telling you that it is the upgraded version. Just look at this thread, a whole ton of people going 'just let it die' Imagine LoL players kept coming to TL and in any thread with any news of any sc2 player, they say 'god when is sc2 gonna die so these guys can come to LoL' 'shit you guys are still playing this thing? ROFL' If this happened as a regular thing, you'd get pretty pissed at anyone who did it right? Its not sc2 the game that bw fans dislike, rather a small segment of its community and their dundering, self-absorbed arrogance. Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 00:53 ODieN wrote:
BW had it's good run for sure.
It all has to end sometime. If SC/BW players want to continue making money playing SC, they're going to have to switch over as that's where all the money is at. This is the kinda thing I mean. Flashes salary is probably the salary of the top 5 korean sc2 pros put together, its something insane like 200k per year WITHOUT the massive amounts of tournaments that he wins with his ridiculous broodwar skill, which might not really guarantee him the same success in a much more risk based game. Though you're right in that most pros that arent as good and dont earn as much in BW will probably switch. But its not like sc2 pros are doing much better in korea right now.
Fair enough; that makes sense. It would be like showing up at somebody else's church, storming the pulpit and telling everyone they're idiots and going to Hell and should become scientologists because Tom Cruise is one.
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On October 30 2011 01:08 zarepath wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 01:01 TheAntZ wrote:On October 30 2011 00:52 zarepath wrote:
And from what I can tell, BW fans don't like SC2. That's not going to change if Flash follows the money. Really, its not exactly that they dont like sc2 Its that a lot of people just try to push it down your throat that BW will die, and thats because this shiny, more friendly new game has 'starcraft' in its title. It really doesnt feel fair, because the game doesnt feel like broodwar, and it doesnt give you the same kind of experience, and yet theres people telling you that it is the upgraded version. Just look at this thread, a whole ton of people going 'just let it die' Imagine LoL players kept coming to TL and in any thread with any news of any sc2 player, they say 'god when is sc2 gonna die so these guys can come to LoL' 'shit you guys are still playing this thing? ROFL' If this happened as a regular thing, you'd get pretty pissed at anyone who did it right? Its not sc2 the game that bw fans dislike, rather a small segment of its community and their dundering, self-absorbed arrogance. On October 30 2011 00:53 ODieN wrote:
BW had it's good run for sure.
It all has to end sometime. If SC/BW players want to continue making money playing SC, they're going to have to switch over as that's where all the money is at. This is the kinda thing I mean. Flashes salary is probably the salary of the top 5 korean sc2 pros put together, its something insane like 200k per year WITHOUT the massive amounts of tournaments that he wins with his ridiculous broodwar skill, which might not really guarantee him the same success in a much more risk based game. Though you're right in that most pros that arent as good and dont earn as much in BW will probably switch. But its not like sc2 pros are doing much better in korea right now. Fair enough; that makes sense. It would be like showing up at somebody else's church, storming the pulpit and telling everyone they're idiots and going to Hell and should become scientologists because Tom Cruise is one.
Nothing that extreme, its more like a christian/muslim/jew telling a pagan that they should convert to the current socially acceptable religion, because its obviously the 'correct' religion, and their religion is old and silly
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BW is better,
no SC2 is better..
Hey your both wrong, its about esports.
Repeat x infinity.
there i saved you having to read this entire fucking thread. (op post was good, but it just goes downhill after that)
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On October 30 2011 00:53 ODieN wrote:
BW had it's good run for sure.
It all has to end sometime. If SC/BW players want to continue making money playing SC, they're going to have to switch over as that's where all the money is at.
Yeah I know man, KT's 400k raise to Flash's salary this year is just not going to cut it I'm afraid. I mean look how much more money there is in SC2. Flash could be earning thousands!
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Can somebody explain to me why this is happening, right now? What actors are responsible for the shift? The fans, the players, kespa, the tv channels, blizzard or the queen of blades?
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51702 Posts
On October 30 2011 01:23 archonOOid wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why this is happening, right now? What actors are responsible for the shift? The fans, the players, kespa, the tv channels, blizzard or the queen of blades?
pretty much it,I guess a bit of fans and players(I know players have had interest in SC2) but mostly those two.
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Just imagine all those teams............that's a lot of SC2 players........
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On October 30 2011 01:22 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 00:53 ODieN wrote:
BW had it's good run for sure.
It all has to end sometime. If SC/BW players want to continue making money playing SC, they're going to have to switch over as that's where all the money is at. Yeah I know man, KT's 400k raise to Flash's salary this year is just not going to cut it I'm afraid. I mean look how much more money there is in SC2. Flash could be earning thousands!
GSL has maybe 1'000'000 price money itself a year. NASL, IPL, Dreamhack, IEM, WCG, ESWC, Dreamhack, there is just a large amount of tournaments with very high pricemoney. And that's only the pricemoney, we do not know where the saleries are (probably not BW level). This is no disrespect to BW, but please do not act as if there was no money in SC2.
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On October 30 2011 01:23 archonOOid wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why this is happening, right now? What actors are responsible for the shift? The fans, the players, kespa, the tv channels, blizzard or the queen of blades?
Aren't GomTV's exclusive rights running out or something like that?
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well if everyone is switching i guess i have no choice but to switch too 
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On October 30 2011 00:12 seraphe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 23:52 Rinnegan5 wrote:
I am sorry if I came across abit harsh. I believe you guys if you say BW was amazing but I seriously think for Esports and SC2 in particular it would be amazing if both the BW and SC2 merged. I think foreign fans would be even more excited to see these players coming. Yes the BW scene would suffer but the SC2 scene would probably double in being more amazing. There are a few fans left for BW outside of Korea but majority of current Esport fans would rather watch SC2 and the best players in the world(as seen at Blizzcon). In short..I want Esports to grow and sometimes another game suffers from that. I'd rather look at the big picture and see Esports grow all over the world instead of only being amazing in Korea. The "growth of esports" argument is completely fail. How is it relevant to our interests at all? Soccer is more popular in the world than American football. American football players also make far more money than soccer players in America, hence why soccer has a hard time growing in America. Why go pro in one sport when going pro in another pays so much better? Therefore, for the good of soccer, and for the good of global sports, American football should die out so that the youth of America can focus on the sport that's popular in the rest of the world, and not the one that's only played in 1 country. Because obviously the one played in only 1 country doesn't fit your criteria of "sport." Sports have to be international, right? Try explaining that to American football fans. Because I'm sure they care more about "the growth of sports" internationally than they do about the game they love. I don't give a shit about esports, not if it comes to the detriment of the game I support. Esports expanding globally means nothing if I can't enjoy it. Sure, it's selfish. But this is the entertainment industry. I have no obligation or desire to support anything that doesn't entertain me. If watching the BW pros switch is actually worth entertainment value, then so be it. That's great. Just don't force these terrible arguments on us like "you should be happy because esports is growing", when many of us could care less. It's not about esports. It's about BW.
this is indeed very selfish and therefore justice prevails. if you cling on to bw forever, you will not only hinder the growth of sc2, but the growth of esports as a whole. you have to realize that you are the minority, and the majority would want the push to make sc2 and esports move forward.
i hope that in time, you will understand this is not about your own personal interests and gains.
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let the bw guys just have this.
their game is gonna die and theres basically nothing they can do about it.
ive been through this myself, i know it hurts and maybe a few years from now the term "deadgameruler" will mean something to you too.
the point is whether bw is a better game or not doesnt matter here at all.
its an old game and even the top players will change to something else sooner or later.
you couldnt really have believed that bw would go on forever.
youve had an amazing run, theres not much games that have had a pro scene like this over such a long time. hell id even say there arent any.
but thats the nature of life, everything does come to an end eventually. so will sc2.
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