Although I absolutely love BW, I must admit in the last year I have turned all my attention to SC2. I just love the new game, even if I feel it doesn't quite live up to it's predecessor. While BW is an absolutely phenomenal game, it's simply dated to me now - I've played it for so many years, back when I couldn't beat a computer in 1v1... the memories of the game were some of the best video game experiences of my life. I had to use every which cheat to beat a computer in Terran vs Terran. I would restart the game if I missed my first supply depot ever so slightly, trying to "maximize" efficiency, and would still get nearly rolled by the first MM push. I had to mass bunker to hold it off, and after putting so many resources into it, I could not hold off hte computer's tank push shortly after. I was CONVINCED the computer cheated.
Nostalgia is huge, but I've moved on... it's sad to say. BW will still always be in my childhood memories, but SC2 is here for me in the present. I hope BW continues to still exist regardless, but I'd sooner see SC2 expand. So many mixed feelings, most likely the result of popping an adderal for hte first time in months an hour ago... but yeah .
On October 29 2011 02:20 windsupernova wrote: I just don´t know why everybody is being so melodramatic.
Nothing of this hints of BW dying. If anything it will help both games.
And whether you think a game is good or not is just an opinion, say it but don´t be an ass about it.
I don´t know why so many people are blaming Blizzard for this, its up to each team and KESPA to decide if they saw potential in SC2 and make the switch. I guess people think Blizzaqrd payed them off?(BTW KESPA is backed by Samsung amongst other big companies, I don´t know why people act as if Blizzard was bigger than KESPA lol)
I am excited about this. And please:
BW fans: Only a super minority of SC2 fans want BW to die, I think most don´t even care much. SC2 fans: Not all BW fans are elitists. And please be nice to them
Teams/proleague/players are rumoured to be switching en masse from BW to playing SC2 as well. How does this not effectively lead to BW dying?
Fixed that for you. It's just rumours at the moment, and we have yet to find out how hard it is to play both games at once (as in: how fully are RTS skills translateable?). Sure, Flash isn't going to try and play both BW and SC2 at once for any long period of time, but other pros might.
On October 29 2011 02:20 windsupernova wrote: I just don´t know why everybody is being so melodramatic.
Nothing of this hints of BW dying. If anything it will help both games.
And whether you think a game is good or not is just an opinion, say it but don´t be an ass about it.
I don´t know why so many people are blaming Blizzard for this, its up to each team and KESPA to decide if they saw potential in SC2 and make the switch. I guess people think Blizzaqrd payed them off?(BTW KESPA is backed by Samsung amongst other big companies, I don´t know why people act as if Blizzard was bigger than KESPA lol)
I am excited about this. And please:
BW fans: Only a super minority of SC2 fans want BW to die, I think most don´t even care much. SC2 fans: Not all BW fans are elitists. And please be nice to them
Teams/proleague/players are switching en masse from BW to SC2. How does this not effectively lead to BW dying?
Where does it says there is going to be a switch? Especially en masse?
On October 29 2011 00:08 rasers wrote: [quote] wow. can u write even more bullshit??
what the! if you have 400 APM and you are still on PAR with a guy with 100 APM, then the game is screwed. It will be like any ordinary crap RTS games in which practising more has no effect.
Go play Spam Click v3 then. 400 APM were needed because the game was stupidly user unfriendly. It is not anymore, allowing more people without nerdy skills and time to express their strategical abilities. In a strategy game, that is what is important.
When watching pro-games and seeing them hit 200-300APM and STILL not doing everything that's needed in SC2, then that goes to show you are still wrong. APM is needed.
APM means, I can click fast. I does not mean I can click where it matters all the time. Click fast can be achieve by any monkey, clicking where is matters have to though. Their is still ways to improve in this domain. Look at EAPM. Their removed the spam, they fall to 60-100, maybe 200 in fights. So the standard 400 APM in BW, means 60 useful actions in reality. Hugh? What?
with every post, you show how little you know.
the top bw pros make meaningful clicks, they can multi task like monsters with multi pronged battles on the map while macroing and managing their bases.
allow me with an example:
It's more than just APM or being able to multitask well it's that BW is by far a HARDER game than SCII. You take anyone from low masters and down and they would be a C- level in BW at best. I myself was a cruddy D player and I'm low master high diamond in SCII.
You think about just how bad all our current top tiers were at BW and you can see that any A-team regular in Proleague would dominate with enough adaptation to SCII. Obviously it wouldn't happen right away but you take their game experience, on-stage experience, confidence and high level in skill at a harder game than SCII you get someone who is definitely going to impact the scene.
Look at forGG, qualified for Code A his first try wasn't it? Not to mention I think being the highest placing Terran in the Korean weekly tournament.
He's also been playing since January on the ladder. It's not like he switched and suddenly dominated. If you look at this Raptor account, he originally placed in Gold and made it to Masters a month later and finally hit GM in April. He's not untouchable and if you watched his matches against BBoongBbongPrime in the ESV Korean Weekly, he wasn't some messiah of ingenius Terran play. He lost to BB and didn't even show anything revolutionary. What you're insinuating is just wrong.
There's a big difference between playing the game on ladder and actually being on a team, training for GSL everyday. I'm sure many of the old progamers who retired will pick up the game and play as BW was their life, so why not try out the sequel. You don't know how much time he actually spent playing. What if it came out he only played 2 hours a day on ladder prior to joining oGs? Would that change your opinion?
He had close to 2.5k games played last season over 3 accounts... My point stands though, he didn't transition instantly into godly-ness, he had to work for it. So when you use him as an example to say "ALL BW PLAYERS > SC2 PLAYERS" it doesn't mean much because he hasn't proved anything other than he worked hard to get to Code A. He hasn't won a ESV Korean Weekly (got 3-4th in his first one, then lost in the ro8 for the finals). He's not evidence towards the original point that BW players will instantly be godly when they switch. SC2 and SC1 are DIFFERENT GAMESSSS
have any of these anonymous bw pros been streaming? if, so whom, race and when? it would be cool to follow their practise and possible predestined road to sc2 domination.
what the! if you have 400 APM and you are still on PAR with a guy with 100 APM, then the game is screwed. It will be like any ordinary crap RTS games in which practising more has no effect.
Go play Spam Click v3 then. 400 APM were needed because the game was stupidly user unfriendly. It is not anymore, allowing more people without nerdy skills and time to express their strategical abilities. In a strategy game, that is what is important.
When watching pro-games and seeing them hit 200-300APM and STILL not doing everything that's needed in SC2, then that goes to show you are still wrong. APM is needed.
APM means, I can click fast. I does not mean I can click where it matters all the time. Click fast can be achieve by any monkey, clicking where is matters have to though. Their is still ways to improve in this domain. Look at EAPM. Their removed the spam, they fall to 60-100, maybe 200 in fights. So the standard 400 APM in BW, means 60 useful actions in reality. Hugh? What?
with every post, you show how little you know.
the top bw pros make meaningful clicks, they can multi task like monsters with multi pronged battles on the map while macroing and managing their bases.
It's more than just APM or being able to multitask well it's that BW is by far a HARDER game than SCII. You take anyone from low masters and down and they would be a C- level in BW at best. I myself was a cruddy D player and I'm low master high diamond in SCII.
You think about just how bad all our current top tiers were at BW and you can see that any A-team regular in Proleague would dominate with enough adaptation to SCII. Obviously it wouldn't happen right away but you take their game experience, on-stage experience, confidence and high level in skill at a harder game than SCII you get someone who is definitely going to impact the scene.
Look at forGG, qualified for Code A his first try wasn't it? Not to mention I think being the highest placing Terran in the Korean weekly tournament.
He's also been playing since January on the ladder. It's not like he switched and suddenly dominated. If you look at this Raptor account, he originally placed in Gold and made it to Masters a month later and finally hit GM in April. He's not untouchable and if you watched his matches against BBoongBbongPrime in the ESV Korean Weekly, he wasn't some messiah of ingenius Terran play. He lost to BB and didn't even show anything revolutionary. What you're insinuating is just wrong.
There's a big difference between playing the game on ladder and actually being on a team, training for GSL everyday. I'm sure many of the old progamers who retired will pick up the game and play as BW was their life, so why not try out the sequel. You don't know how much time he actually spent playing. What if it came out he only played 2 hours a day on ladder prior to joining oGs? Would that change your opinion?
He had close to 2.5k games played last season over 3 accounts... My point stands though, he didn't transition instantly into godly-ness, he had to work for it. So when you use him as an example to say "ALL BW PLAYERS > SC2 PLAYERS" it doesn't mean much because he hasn't proved anything other than he worked hard to get to Code A. He hasn't won a ESV Korean Weekly (got 3-4th in his first one, then lost in the ro8 for the finals). He's not evidence towards the original point that BW players will instantly be godly when they switch. SC2 and SC1 are DIFFERENT GAMESSSS
You should ignore the idiots who think Flash can dominate after 2 weeks. I suspect they are more enthusiastic than rational.
On October 29 2011 02:19 Kira__ wrote: I'm afraid that these superstars switching might be a dissapointment due to the limitations of sc2. The main reason they are untouchable in brood war is because of their godlike mechanics. People like IdrA who is looked upon as perhaps the player with the strongest mechanics in the foreign scene, doesnt even come close to them. But this doesnt play as big of a role in Sc2 as it did in brood war. Players with down right crap mechanics (Goody eliminating Nestea in TSL comes to mind) can bring down superior opponents because the game is quite frankly so easy.
Obviously these players will be in the absolute top, winning the tournaments, but won't be anywhere near as dominant as they could be in brood war.
I think there is a point, even in SC2, where if 2 players of equal (and very high) understanding of the game, strategy, builds, decision making play against each other, having godlike mechanics (by SC2 standards) becomes important again. All korean pros do not have the same mechanical level, it's very subtle to see, but they aren't actually all godly at that. For example, Nestea is not the fastest player possible, his micro is not outstanding compared to his decision making. Bomber's macro is known to be exceptionally good even compared to other korean terrans, things like that. If we get someone like Bisu to play SC2, who will be able to control 3 dark templars in 3 different places, while pushing with blink stalkers or harassing with phoenixes to maximize the damage done, things will look good for esports.
My hope is that for HotS, all units increase the potential of what can be achieved with BWMonster-like mechanics ;D
Doesn't this seem like kind of a big risk? Investing so much time into sc2 when Kespa hasn't even made an official decision yet? If Kespa decides not to switch over then the teams will have wasted all this time and money on a game that they don't need to care about.
If this switch does happen, then it will be pretty exciting to see what happens in Korean as well ass foreign e-sports.
Soon, there will be no hope. Players like HuK, Nestea, all will be put to shame by the sheer talent of the brood war gods. May god, have mercy on us all.
Go play Spam Click v3 then. 400 APM were needed because the game was stupidly user unfriendly. It is not anymore, allowing more people without nerdy skills and time to express their strategical abilities. In a strategy game, that is what is important.
When watching pro-games and seeing them hit 200-300APM and STILL not doing everything that's needed in SC2, then that goes to show you are still wrong. APM is needed.
APM means, I can click fast. I does not mean I can click where it matters all the time. Click fast can be achieve by any monkey, clicking where is matters have to though. Their is still ways to improve in this domain. Look at EAPM. Their removed the spam, they fall to 60-100, maybe 200 in fights. So the standard 400 APM in BW, means 60 useful actions in reality. Hugh? What?
with every post, you show how little you know.
the top bw pros make meaningful clicks, they can multi task like monsters with multi pronged battles on the map while macroing and managing their bases.
It's more than just APM or being able to multitask well it's that BW is by far a HARDER game than SCII. You take anyone from low masters and down and they would be a C- level in BW at best. I myself was a cruddy D player and I'm low master high diamond in SCII.
You think about just how bad all our current top tiers were at BW and you can see that any A-team regular in Proleague would dominate with enough adaptation to SCII. Obviously it wouldn't happen right away but you take their game experience, on-stage experience, confidence and high level in skill at a harder game than SCII you get someone who is definitely going to impact the scene.
Look at forGG, qualified for Code A his first try wasn't it? Not to mention I think being the highest placing Terran in the Korean weekly tournament.
He's also been playing since January on the ladder. It's not like he switched and suddenly dominated. If you look at this Raptor account, he originally placed in Gold and made it to Masters a month later and finally hit GM in April. He's not untouchable and if you watched his matches against BBoongBbongPrime in the ESV Korean Weekly, he wasn't some messiah of ingenius Terran play. He lost to BB and didn't even show anything revolutionary. What you're insinuating is just wrong.
There's a big difference between playing the game on ladder and actually being on a team, training for GSL everyday. I'm sure many of the old progamers who retired will pick up the game and play as BW was their life, so why not try out the sequel. You don't know how much time he actually spent playing. What if it came out he only played 2 hours a day on ladder prior to joining oGs? Would that change your opinion?
He had close to 2.5k games played last season over 3 accounts... My point stands though, he didn't transition instantly into godly-ness, he had to work for it. So when you use him as an example to say "ALL BW PLAYERS > SC2 PLAYERS" it doesn't mean much because he hasn't proved anything other than he worked hard to get to Code A. He hasn't won a ESV Korean Weekly (got 3-4th in his first one, then lost in the ro8 for the finals). He's not evidence towards the original point that BW players will instantly be godly when they switch. SC2 and SC1 are DIFFERENT GAMESSSS
You should ignore the idiots who think Flash can dominate after 2 weeks. I suspect they are more enthusiastic than rational.
Yeah I know, I just wanted to correct anyone using fOrGG as rationale for what is essentially just speculation.
On October 29 2011 02:30 Grampz wrote: Soon, there will be no hope. Players like HuK, Nestea, all will be put to shame by the sheer talent of the brood war gods. May god, have mercy on us all.
But how can Flash have mercy on us when he's crushing our puny skulls?
On October 29 2011 02:13 Enervate wrote: I'm just so incredibly sad now. I wrote out a lot of stuff saying why BW was better than SC2 as an esport and why physical conditioning is important for any sport, but I don't think it really matters anymore. This was always the way things were going to end. This news really ruined my day , though I was expecting something like this any day now after Bisu and co were invited to Blizzcon.
Just to say some positive stuff, I think SC2BW is pretty cool and more people should play it. And if TBLS do play SC2, I would get to cheer for Bisu and see him stomp more noobs! But I would be crushed if Bisu ever lost to a foreigner though, or even someone like MC for that matter. TT TT
Bisu shouldn't and will never lose to mc
Yeah, 4 Gate isn't in the game anymore so MC doesn't have that great of a chance.
As much as I hate to see them stop playing Brood War, it would be funny as hell if these BW players completely monopolized the SC2 pro scene after switching lol.
I'm excited to see some bw pros switch over. However, I do not wish to see a divided scene where the bw pros just play sc2 amongst themselves in pro league. I want to see a full transition where they play with current sc2 pros in korea and travel to foreign sc2 events. Can't wait till that day happens!
On October 29 2011 02:30 Grampz wrote: Soon, there will be no hope. Players like HuK, Nestea, all will be put to shame by the sheer talent of the brood war gods. May god, have mercy on us all.
hahaha, this will really put pressure on foreign teams(well, and current SC2 Korean players too) and players to really step it up. The average foreigner can´t compete with the average korean as it is and this guys are mechanics(and strategy WTF I don´t know why so many people pretend that BW was all about mechanics) beasts.
On October 29 2011 02:20 windsupernova wrote: I just don´t know why everybody is being so melodramatic.
Nothing of this hints of BW dying. If anything it will help both games.
And whether you think a game is good or not is just an opinion, say it but don´t be an ass about it.
I don´t know why so many people are blaming Blizzard for this, its up to each team and KESPA to decide if they saw potential in SC2 and make the switch. I guess people think Blizzaqrd payed them off?(BTW KESPA is backed by Samsung amongst other big companies, I don´t know why people act as if Blizzard was bigger than KESPA lol)
I am excited about this. And please:
BW fans: Only a super minority of SC2 fans want BW to die, I think most don´t even care much. SC2 fans: Not all BW fans are elitists. And please be nice to them
Teams/proleague/players are rumoured to be switching en masse from BW to playing SC2 as well. How does this not effectively lead to BW dying?
Fixed that for you. It's just rumours at the moment, and we have yet to find out how hard it is to play both games at once (as in: how fully are RTS skills translateable?). Sure, Flash isn't going to try and play both BW and SC2 at once for any long period of time, but other pros might.
No, nobody is going to try and be pro at both. If you tried to you just wouldn't end up being pro at either. to be pro you need to put all of your time into it, why do you think the staple is that Koreans are better than most foreigners. because they devote ALL their time to playing the game. They will have to make a choice at some point for one or the other. Otherwise they'll be mediocre at best at both games and not acquire any fans or money or honor which in the end is what it is all about for them whether you believe it or not.
Go play Spam Click v3 then. 400 APM were needed because the game was stupidly user unfriendly. It is not anymore, allowing more people without nerdy skills and time to express their strategical abilities. In a strategy game, that is what is important.
When watching pro-games and seeing them hit 200-300APM and STILL not doing everything that's needed in SC2, then that goes to show you are still wrong. APM is needed.
APM means, I can click fast. I does not mean I can click where it matters all the time. Click fast can be achieve by any monkey, clicking where is matters have to though. Their is still ways to improve in this domain. Look at EAPM. Their removed the spam, they fall to 60-100, maybe 200 in fights. So the standard 400 APM in BW, means 60 useful actions in reality. Hugh? What?
with every post, you show how little you know.
the top bw pros make meaningful clicks, they can multi task like monsters with multi pronged battles on the map while macroing and managing their bases.
It's more than just APM or being able to multitask well it's that BW is by far a HARDER game than SCII. You take anyone from low masters and down and they would be a C- level in BW at best. I myself was a cruddy D player and I'm low master high diamond in SCII.
You think about just how bad all our current top tiers were at BW and you can see that any A-team regular in Proleague would dominate with enough adaptation to SCII. Obviously it wouldn't happen right away but you take their game experience, on-stage experience, confidence and high level in skill at a harder game than SCII you get someone who is definitely going to impact the scene.
Look at forGG, qualified for Code A his first try wasn't it? Not to mention I think being the highest placing Terran in the Korean weekly tournament.
He's also been playing since January on the ladder. It's not like he switched and suddenly dominated. If you look at this Raptor account, he originally placed in Gold and made it to Masters a month later and finally hit GM in April. He's not untouchable and if you watched his matches against BBoongBbongPrime in the ESV Korean Weekly, he wasn't some messiah of ingenius Terran play. He lost to BB and didn't even show anything revolutionary. What you're insinuating is just wrong.
There's a big difference between playing the game on ladder and actually being on a team, training for GSL everyday. I'm sure many of the old progamers who retired will pick up the game and play as BW was their life, so why not try out the sequel. You don't know how much time he actually spent playing. What if it came out he only played 2 hours a day on ladder prior to joining oGs? Would that change your opinion?
He had close to 2.5k games played last season over 3 accounts... My point stands though, he didn't transition instantly into godly-ness, he had to work for it. So when you use him as an example to say "ALL BW PLAYERS > SC2 PLAYERS" it doesn't mean much because he hasn't proved anything other than he worked hard to get to Code A. He hasn't won a ESV Korean Weekly (got 3-4th in his first one, then lost in the ro8 for the finals). He's not evidence towards the original point that BW players will instantly be godly when they switch. SC2 and SC1 are DIFFERENT GAMESSSS
You should ignore the idiots who think Flash can dominate after 2 weeks. I suspect they are more enthusiastic than rational.
You shouldn't ignore that some players are really freaking good and that people are excited and want to see them. This whole discuss is stupid. Great players have both APM and good decision making but all these assholes decided that you can only have one or the other. Anyone with a really high APM work for it. If they're willing to work to improve their APM why wouldn't they work on decision making/build orders/whatever?
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, though I was expecting something like this any day now after Bisu and co were invited to Blizzcon.
