I'm just so incredibly sad now. I wrote out a lot of stuff saying why BW was better than SC2 as an esport and why physical conditioning is important for any sport, but I don't think it really matters anymore. This was always the way things were going to end. This news really ruined my day , though I was expecting something like this any day now after Bisu and co were invited to Blizzcon.
Just to say some positive stuff, I think SC2BW is pretty cool and more people should play it. And if TBLS do play SC2, I would get to cheer for Bisu and see him stomp more noobs! But I would be crushed if Bisu ever lost to a foreigner though, or even someone like MC for that matter. TT TT
Edit: I actually do like SC2. I play it and watch it. I follow the proscene pretty closely. I just don't like it as much as I like BW, and I'm not really that passionate about it anymore. I don't have the same love for someone in SC2 as I have for Bisu or the same hate I have for Flash (lol jk, I like Flash). But that also has to due with the fact that I've been really busy with schoolwork and other stuff
Sorry I sounded so sad lol. I just wanted to express that this indeed is a momentous moment. It's like reading the last Harry Potter book.
First I was hyped about the players: every single one of them is more talented. Then I was hyped about the game. With this much influx of crazy players, the game is going to develop so quickly. I hope they stick to their roots of building strategies in-house. I am not prepared for all of this.
Wow, I still have trouble believing this. Regardless of whether one loves or dislikes the news, this is a big development with even bigger implications.
I hope those players will receive HotS beta keys and give feedback. Would be very interesting to read.
On October 29 2011 02:13 Enervate wrote: I'm just so incredibly sad now. I wrote out a lot of stuff saying why BW was better than SC2 as an esport and why physical conditioning is important for any sport, but I don't think it really matters anymore. This was always the way things were going to end. This news really ruined my day , though I was expecting something like this any day now after Bisu and co were invited to Blizzcon.
Just to say some positive stuff, I think SC2BW is pretty cool and more people should play it. And if TBLS do play SC2, I would get to cheer for Bisu and see him stomp more noobs! But I would be crushed if Bisu ever lost to a foreigner though, or even someone like MC for that matter. TT TT
On October 29 2011 02:13 Enervate wrote: I'm just so incredibly sad now. I wrote out a lot of stuff saying why BW was better than SC2 as an esport and why physical conditioning is important for any sport, but I don't think it really matters anymore. This was always the way things were going to end. This news really ruined my day , though I was expecting something like this any day now after Bisu and co were invited to Blizzcon.
Just to say some positive stuff, I think SC2BW is pretty cool and more people should play it. And if TBLS do play SC2, I would get to cheer for Bisu and see him stomp more noobs! But I would be crushed if Bisu ever lost to a foreigner though, or even someone like MC for that matter. TT TT
Well I can promise you one day in the next year you will get crushed
On October 29 2011 02:13 Enervate wrote: I'm just so incredibly sad now. I wrote out a lot of stuff saying why BW was better than SC2 as an esport and why physical conditioning is important for any sport, but I don't think it really matters anymore. This was always the way things were going to end. This news really ruined my day , though I was expecting something like this any day now after Bisu and co were invited to Blizzcon.
Just to say some positive stuff, I think SC2BW is pretty cool and more people should play it. And if TBLS do play SC2, I would get to cheer for Bisu and see him stomp more noobs! But I would be crushed if Bisu ever lost to a foreigner though, or even someone like MC for that matter. TT TT
Well I can promise you one day in the next year you will get crushed
I should clarify my statement. I meant in a televised match. Lolol :p
On October 29 2011 00:01 GTLAllDayEveryDay wrote: I cant wait for the BW pros to switch over so they can get man handled. It doesnt take too much talent to be the top player at a game that only a handful of players play. SC2 increased the player count many times over. It's funny to see all these BW fanboys speaking hypothetical about their heroes dominating the SC2, but you damn well know in their hearts they're hoping they don't switch because then if players like FlaSh, Jaedong, Bisu switch and become good, but don't reach the mind boggling heights of their BW glory, it just proves that they're not RTS gods, just exceptional BW players that were able to excel in a mechanically difficult game -- remember this is a strategy game, it shouldn't take 400 APM to execute a strategy. Also BW became a very niche thing over the years, like curling.
wow. can u write even more bullshit??
what the! if you have 400 APM and you are still on PAR with a guy with 100 APM, then the game is screwed. It will be like any ordinary crap RTS games in which practising more has no effect.
Go play Spam Click v3 then. 400 APM were needed because the game was stupidly user unfriendly. It is not anymore, allowing more people without nerdy skills and time to express their strategical abilities. In a strategy game, that is what is important.
When watching pro-games and seeing them hit 200-300APM and STILL not doing everything that's needed in SC2, then that goes to show you are still wrong. APM is needed.
APM means, I can click fast. I does not mean I can click where it matters all the time. Click fast can be achieve by any monkey, clicking where is matters have to though. Their is still ways to improve in this domain. Look at EAPM. Their removed the spam, they fall to 60-100, maybe 200 in fights. So the standard 400 APM in BW, means 60 useful actions in reality. Hugh? What?
with every post, you show how little you know.
the top bw pros make meaningful clicks, they can multi task like monsters with multi pronged battles on the map while macroing and managing their bases.
allow me with an example:
It's more than just APM or being able to multitask well it's that BW is by far a HARDER game than SCII. You take anyone from low masters and down and they would be a C- level in BW at best. I myself was a cruddy D player and I'm low master high diamond in SCII.
You think about just how bad all our current top tiers were at BW and you can see that any A-team regular in Proleague would dominate with enough adaptation to SCII. Obviously it wouldn't happen right away but you take their game experience, on-stage experience, confidence and high level in skill at a harder game than SCII you get someone who is definitely going to impact the scene.
Look at forGG, qualified for Code A his first try wasn't it? Not to mention I think being the highest placing Terran in the Korean weekly tournament.
He's also been playing since January on the ladder. It's not like he switched and suddenly dominated. If you look at this Raptor account, he originally placed in Gold and made it to Masters a month later and finally hit GM in April. He's not untouchable and if you watched his matches against BBoongBbongPrime in the ESV Korean Weekly, he wasn't some messiah of ingenius Terran play. He lost to BB and didn't even show anything revolutionary. What you're insinuating is just wrong.
I will always keep on playing BW. If SC2 can support a legitimate, balanced, exciting e sport, than I look forward to seeing these players playing SC2. Maybe this will add more pressure for Blizzard make more micro units in SC2.
Excited and sad. Excited because everyone is going to see what happens when an actual top-tier BW player switches, but REALLY sad BW is dying, because it's an inherently better game that was balanced and patched with much more respect for the pro level than SC2 is.
"Command and Conquer 5" made me laugh. SC2, especially with the huge unit changes in HotS, is looking a lot like that. SC2 is definitely not SC1's successor, whatever the name similarities. BW has a much higher skill cap than SC2, and in a sense SC2 is just a dumbed down flashy version of BW for kids who need nice graphics and "kewl lazers lawl".
I'm afraid that these superstars switching might be a dissapointment due to the limitations of sc2. The main reason they are untouchable in brood war is because of their godlike mechanics. People like IdrA who is looked upon as perhaps the player with the strongest mechanics in the foreign scene, doesnt even come close to them. But this doesnt play as big of a role in Sc2 as it did in brood war. Players with down right crap mechanics (Goody eliminating Nestea in TSL comes to mind) can bring down superior opponents because the game is quite frankly so easy.
Obviously these players will be in the absolute top, winning the tournaments, but won't be anywhere near as dominant as they could be in brood war.
On October 29 2011 02:13 Enervate wrote: I'm just so incredibly sad now. I wrote out a lot of stuff saying why BW was better than SC2 as an esport and why physical conditioning is important for any sport, but I don't think it really matters anymore. This was always the way things were going to end. This news really ruined my day , though I was expecting something like this any day now after Bisu and co were invited to Blizzcon.
Just to say some positive stuff, I think SC2BW is pretty cool and more people should play it. And if TBLS do play SC2, I would get to cheer for Bisu and see him stomp more noobs! But I would be crushed if Bisu ever lost to a foreigner though, or even someone like MC for that matter. TT TT
I hope you find sc2 similar enough to bw to follow the scene. Myself I never played BW but I know it is what every game should strive for. There are still two expansions left to make the game harder and raise the skill cap.
Also, there is 0% chance Bisu will be a worse player than MC. There might be the occasional random game where MC wins because of build order, that might be believable.
I just don´t know why everybody is being so melodramatic.
Nothing of this hints of BW dying. If anything it will help both games.
And whether you think a game is good or not is just an opinion, say it but don´t be an ass about it.
I don´t know why so many people are blaming Blizzard for this, its up to each team and KESPA to decide if they saw potential in SC2 and make the switch. I guess people think Blizzaqrd payed them off?(BTW KESPA is backed by Samsung amongst other big companies, I don´t know why people act as if Blizzard was bigger than KESPA lol)
I am excited about this. And please:
BW fans: Only a super minority of SC2 fans want BW to die, I think most don´t even care much. SC2 fans: Not all BW fans are elitists. And please be nice to them
I'd really like to see Brood War: Redux, with widescreen resolution and shiny graphics but absolutely nothing else changed at all. That would be killer.
On October 29 2011 02:20 windsupernova wrote: I just don´t know why everybody is being so melodramatic.
Nothing of this hints of BW dying. If anything it will help both games.
And whether you think a game is good or not is just an opinion, say it but don´t be an ass about it.
I don´t know why so many people are blaming Blizzard for this, its up to each team and KESPA to decide if they saw potential in SC2 and make the switch. I guess people think Blizzaqrd payed them off?(BTW KESPA is backed by Samsung amongst other big companies, I don´t know why people act as if Blizzard was bigger than KESPA lol)
I am excited about this. And please:
BW fans: Only a super minority of SC2 fans want BW to die, I think most don´t even care much. SC2 fans: Not all BW fans are elitists. And please be nice to them
Teams/proleague/players are switching en masse from BW to SC2. How does this not effectively lead to BW dying?
On October 29 2011 00:01 GTLAllDayEveryDay wrote: I cant wait for the BW pros to switch over so they can get man handled. It doesnt take too much talent to be the top player at a game that only a handful of players play. SC2 increased the player count many times over. It's funny to see all these BW fanboys speaking hypothetical about their heroes dominating the SC2, but you damn well know in their hearts they're hoping they don't switch because then if players like FlaSh, Jaedong, Bisu switch and become good, but don't reach the mind boggling heights of their BW glory, it just proves that they're not RTS gods, just exceptional BW players that were able to excel in a mechanically difficult game -- remember this is a strategy game, it shouldn't take 400 APM to execute a strategy. Also BW became a very niche thing over the years, like curling.
wow. can u write even more bullshit??
what the! if you have 400 APM and you are still on PAR with a guy with 100 APM, then the game is screwed. It will be like any ordinary crap RTS games in which practising more has no effect.
Go play Spam Click v3 then. 400 APM were needed because the game was stupidly user unfriendly. It is not anymore, allowing more people without nerdy skills and time to express their strategical abilities. In a strategy game, that is what is important.
When watching pro-games and seeing them hit 200-300APM and STILL not doing everything that's needed in SC2, then that goes to show you are still wrong. APM is needed.
APM means, I can click fast. I does not mean I can click where it matters all the time. Click fast can be achieve by any monkey, clicking where is matters have to though. Their is still ways to improve in this domain. Look at EAPM. Their removed the spam, they fall to 60-100, maybe 200 in fights. So the standard 400 APM in BW, means 60 useful actions in reality. Hugh? What?
with every post, you show how little you know.
the top bw pros make meaningful clicks, they can multi task like monsters with multi pronged battles on the map while macroing and managing their bases.
It's more than just APM or being able to multitask well it's that BW is by far a HARDER game than SCII. You take anyone from low masters and down and they would be a C- level in BW at best. I myself was a cruddy D player and I'm low master high diamond in SCII.
You think about just how bad all our current top tiers were at BW and you can see that any A-team regular in Proleague would dominate with enough adaptation to SCII. Obviously it wouldn't happen right away but you take their game experience, on-stage experience, confidence and high level in skill at a harder game than SCII you get someone who is definitely going to impact the scene.
Look at forGG, qualified for Code A his first try wasn't it? Not to mention I think being the highest placing Terran in the Korean weekly tournament.
He's also been playing since January on the ladder. It's not like he switched and suddenly dominated. If you look at this Raptor account, he originally placed in Gold and made it to Masters a month later and finally hit GM in April. He's not untouchable and if you watched his matches against BBoongBbongPrime in the ESV Korean Weekly, he wasn't some messiah of ingenius Terran play. He lost to BB and didn't even show anything revolutionary. What you're insinuating is just wrong.
There's a big difference between playing the game on ladder and actually being on a team, training for GSL everyday. I'm sure many of the old progamers who retired will pick up the game and play as BW was their life, so why not try out the sequel. You don't know how much time he actually spent playing. What if it came out he only played 2 hours a day on ladder prior to joining oGs? Would that change your opinion?
For those discussing the APM vs meaningful APM such a measure was devised for broodwar called EAPM that factored out the spam. Most of the BW players that were considered fast and great multitaskers generally had between 300-400 APM, and about 200-250 EAPM depending on the game.
Needless to say, Bisu is no Vibe, and as you can see from the video Bisu is not doing very much spamming at all, it really is 80-90% meaningful clicks.
That's extremely exciting news. They will be dominant, don't know what you people are thinking. SC2/BW are about far more than just mechanics. If/when they start playing I wouldn't be surprised at all if almost every Code S/A player was weeded out.
EPT
, though I was expecting something like this any day now after Bisu and co were invited to Blizzcon.
