• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:14
CEST 01:14
KST 08:14
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202530RSL Season 1 - Final Week8[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams1Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster Why doesnt SC2 scene costream tournaments
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame
Brood War
General
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL Corsair Pursuit Micro?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET The Casual Games of the Week Thread BWCL Season 63 Announcement
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 654 users

[D] HotS: Zerg detection

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 9 10 11 Next All
grs
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Germany2339 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-06 23:38:00
October 25 2011 09:38 GMT
#1
As little as is known right now, I am a bit worried about the loss of the overseer as a detector compared to the viper as a detector.

Overseer:
+ morph time 17s, when lair tech is done
+ cost 50/50
+ sight range 11
+ Speed 1.875 (2,75 with upgrade)
+ morph from any overlord spread around the map
- rarely used/bad spells

Viper:
? build time unknown, but very probably way more than 17s (infestor is 50s e.g.) said to build fairly quick
? cost 100/200, but can make multiple detectors
- sight range (of the detector) depends on unit (max 11)
- speed (of the detector) depends on unit (can be very fast zergling or very slow)
- must have the viper near the unit you want as a detector
+ spells sound very strong

Don't get me wrong, the viper sounds really good as a spell caster unit, but given that you can "only" make one unit a detector with the viper: what happens if you lose that unit? You have to build a new viper, infect a unit (and have a resonable good one close to the viper). How much havoc can some DTs or Banshees wreck till you can have another detector up?
From people playing at Blizzcon, the Viper can infect multiple units; each for the low cost of 25 energy.

Also it seems the parasite will not work on massive units (no Broodlord, no Ultralisk), so what is left? An overlord, which flies, but is very slow? Maybe a muta or corruptor?

Am I overlooking something, or does this hurt zerg detection quite much? Currently looks, like switching the Overseer out for the viper, slows the initial zerg detection down, since the cost is higher and you have to get the unit you want as a detector close to the Viper.

kmh
Profile Joined November 2010
Finland351 Posts
October 25 2011 09:41 GMT
#2
It's a pretty big hit to the availability of detection. However, having a single viper will probably never be a bad move - no matter what the push, it would seem to always be a helpful unit to have, so there's that.

Barbiero
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Brazil5259 Posts
October 25 2011 09:41 GMT
#3
Defensively, you would still use Spore crawlers for detection. This is an offensive, versatile, detection method.

I still find it quite weak considering how easy it is to "avoid" spore crawlers, so I'm hoping Zerg will have another form of detection as well.
♥ The world needs more hearts! ♥
Ganseng
Profile Joined July 2011
Russian Federation473 Posts
October 25 2011 09:46 GMT
#4
i wouldn't be concerned about detection, i would be concerned about scouting. i mean overseer is 50 gas and 200 hp, viper is 200 gas and 120 hp... feel the difference.
how are zergies supposed to scout? slow ovis? fast ovis (200 gas)?
albis
Profile Joined January 2010
United States652 Posts
October 25 2011 09:47 GMT
#5
would be nice to have queen detectors at expansions. 2-3 spines and a queen and your anti dt proof. hear a nuke go off, queens already at the nuke spot. or maybe overlords over expos
every punch is thrown with bad intentions with the speed of a devil
Eviscerador
Profile Joined October 2011
Spain286 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-25 09:51:24
October 25 2011 09:50 GMT
#6
On October 25 2011 18:47 albis wrote:
would be nice to have queen detectors at expansions. 2-3 spines and a queen and your anti dt proof. hear a nuke go off, queens already at the nuke spot. or maybe overlords over expos

¿How anyone of this be better than a single spore? Remember spores can move and burrow pretty quick.

Also, queens are the priority target on a cloacked rush, so getting them to be detectors make them more priority target.
A victorious warrior wins first, then goes to war. A defeated warrior goes to war and then seeks to win.
FaCE_1
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Canada6172 Posts
October 25 2011 09:51 GMT
#7
On October 25 2011 18:47 albis wrote:
would be nice to have queen detectors at expansions. 2-3 spines and a queen and your anti dt proof. hear a nuke go off, queens already at the nuke spot. or maybe overlords over expos

yeah or have the zerling as detector O_o...

I always like to make 3-4 overseer when needed in big battle against T or P since it's pretty cheep, you already have the overload and chageling are so usefull

will need to try this new units before concluding anything tough...
n_n
Frankon
Profile Joined May 2010
3054 Posts
October 25 2011 09:54 GMT
#8
I see one big plus for the parasite. It should be harder to snipe the detection units to use your ghosts or DTs in engagement since you wouldn't know which unit is the detector.
Treble557
Profile Joined August 2010
United States221 Posts
October 25 2011 09:57 GMT
#9
I'm more worried about what it's gonna do to our mid game scouting then our detection honestly. You can get an overseer as soon as you get a lair to get into the enemy base and poke around to see what you're reacting to just fine, but if we're stuck waiting on OL speed to do this, or using slow OL's, or only able to go by what we see from poking at the front, then im pretty sure we're screwed. XD
Seij
Profile Joined March 2011
United States19 Posts
October 25 2011 10:04 GMT
#10
I'm excited to have the viper...

Going against a Terran with many ghosts to both snipe BLs and Ultras, the only viable way to kill them off would be either with an overseer (very easily sniped) or revealing them with a fungal. EMP out ranges fungal and are very squishy.

The game was kind of off though but....
+ Show Spoiler +
Watch MVP vs Nestea @ Blizzcon
I kind of wonder if he was trying to make a point with that comp vs ghosts...


Having a random unit to detect seems to be a great solution to this.

I am concerned about the cost and time it will come out though as well.

firehand101
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia3152 Posts
October 25 2011 10:07 GMT
#11
I think the overseer should just be left in, how else are zerg going to scout on lair tech?
The opinions expressed by our users do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff.
baba44713
Profile Joined October 2011
83 Posts
October 25 2011 10:22 GMT
#12
There's already a thread about this:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216712

Hairy
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1169 Posts
October 25 2011 10:24 GMT
#13
I'm a little worried, but it's early days and we still don't even have beta.

That said, I'm concerned for early/midgame detection as the viper is going to be difficult, or impossible, to get early enough to be an option for things like big banshee play (while still being economically viable). With no other detection option I can see it being very difficult to avoid having to over-produce spores for defense in order to avoid stupid losses.

... especially as removing the overseer also leaves somewhat of a hole in zerg scouting as it currently stands. Hopefully blizz will give us some alternative, eg overlord speed at hatch tech would be very welcome.
Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits
FakeDouble
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia676 Posts
October 25 2011 10:33 GMT
#14
It seems like zerg would become like a Terran that didn't have the ability to scan, i.e. no mobile detection until you get out a raven (also 100/200)... which is stupid, and I play Terran.
2 Port cloakshee would become too strong again as zerg would not be able to get a detector that the cloakshees could not just kill.
DTs wouldn't kill you out right, but could easily contain you on 2 bases. If you did happen to take a very quick 3rd and spore that up in time, a protoss could just park DTs outside your natural to not let you move out and easily go kill your 3rd and then take a quick 3rd themselves.
At least in zvz you wouldn't have to worry about swarm host rushes. Or would you?
Hopefully it doesn't come down to having to spread creep and leap-frog spore crawlers just to be able to move out of your base with units that aren't as fast as speedlings...
Formerly known as carbonaceous
teide
Profile Joined July 2011
Spain178 Posts
October 25 2011 10:37 GMT
#15
Dt and banshee kill spore crawler so fast. Zerg dont have scan -.-
My name is reek it rhymes with peek.
TedJustice
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1324 Posts
October 25 2011 10:38 GMT
#16
I hope there's some kind of graphic, like an eye icon floating above units that you make a detector.

Otherwise, how will the other player know which unit to snipe?
silentblob
Profile Joined June 2011
Great Britain40 Posts
October 25 2011 11:09 GMT
#17
my advice is to wait till the game ships before you worry about the balance, thats meant in a nice way
Treble557
Profile Joined August 2010
United States221 Posts
October 25 2011 11:11 GMT
#18
On October 25 2011 20:09 silentblob wrote:
my advice is to wait till the game ships before you worry about the balance, thats meant in a nice way


Try to remember that DB put all this stuff out there because he wants our community feedback on these ideas to know if they're worth finalizing or not for the beta.

So we'd actually be doing a bad thing by just going "ooo how snazzy" and then waiting till the beta to say anything at all.

baba44713
Profile Joined October 2011
83 Posts
October 25 2011 11:16 GMT
#19
On October 25 2011 19:38 TedJustice wrote:
I hope there's some kind of graphic, like an eye icon floating above units that you make a detector.

Otherwise, how will the other player know which unit to snipe?


Yes there is. A giant frikking floating orb. Check out 0:09:



silentblob
Profile Joined June 2011
Great Britain40 Posts
October 25 2011 11:20 GMT
#20
If one mutalisk was ocular parasited in a pack of mutas, it would be a really good tool for scouting/map control/picking off observers, banshees, possibly DT's possibly shredders and swarm hosts if they are used as intended.

I think thats how they will be used... and hopefully they won't be visible by the enemy unless the enemy has a detector.
1 2 3 4 5 9 10 11 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 10h 46m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Liquid`TLO 236
Nathanias 205
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 655
NaDa 59
Aegong 46
League of Legends
Dendi1087
syndereN213
Counter-Strike
Fnx 1488
flusha366
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe38
Other Games
tarik_tv9234
Grubby2863
FrodaN1783
C9.Mang0275
Day[9].tv153
Maynarde133
ViBE125
Livibee95
shahzam56
Sick35
rubinoeu9
Liquid`Ken8
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick798
BasetradeTV26
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• RyuSc2 40
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• Diggity19
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22247
League of Legends
• Doublelift4977
Other Games
• imaqtpie1520
• Scarra1281
• Day9tv153
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
10h 46m
ByuN vs Zoun
SHIN vs TriGGeR
Cyan vs ShoWTimE
Rogue vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs Solar
Reynor vs Maru
herO vs Cure
Serral vs Classic
Esports World Cup
1d 10h
Esports World Cup
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
CSO Cup
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Online Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.