TL interviews Dustin Browder at Blizzcon

On October 25 2011 09:27 hordeau wrote:
Why not just chop out kennigit entirely in the video and zoom in on that sexy bald head?

On October 25 2011 09:34 Bartimaeus wrote:
Whoah whoah whoah . . . his shirt is a Terran shirt.

On October 25 2011 09:44 Mattchew wrote:
posts 19+ min vid at 9:09 and theres like 10 posts before 9:29... people must speed watch or something

On October 25 2011 09:42 Talin wrote:
"If we were to sit here and carefully analyze the metagame, we would add nothing" <- Dustin Browder making perfect sense.

Too bad it doesn't matter much when Blizzard wants to sell an expansion regardless of it resetting the game completely. -_-

On October 25 2011 09:47 FreudianTrip wrote:
I couldn't stop concentrating on Dustin Browders beard. Is there anyway to pixelate it C.O.P.S style so I can listen to it?

On October 25 2011 09:27 hordeau wrote:
Why not just chop out kennigit entirely in the video and zoom in on that sexy bald head?

On October 25 2011 09:47 Uhnno wrote:
Dodged the LAN question like a boss. Was expected though, but still

On October 25 2011 09:40 Torte de Lini wrote:
Is it just me or does Kennigit look a bit like Buble?

On October 25 2011 09:51 Daralii wrote:

He sorta looks like the child of Artosis and Voldemort.

On October 25 2011 09:50 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Also I think pros will fix the ball of death problem, at least for the esports scene. It is used even when it's not optimal. As players get better, it will be seen less.

On October 25 2011 09:51 Orphen wrote:
that was a very great interview, Browder cares

On October 25 2011 09:50 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Also I think pros will fix the ball of death problem, at least for the esports scene. It is used even when it's not optimal. As players get better, it will be seen less.

On October 25 2011 09:50 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Also I think pros will fix the ball of death problem, at least for the esports scene. It is used even when it's not optimal. As players get better, it will be seen less.

On October 25 2011 09:58 Theeakoz wrote:
They need pros in their team! I know I said it before, but the more I think about it, the more I realize how much better the game would be with a bunch of community-picked reasonable pro gamers visiting blizzard's balance office every weak and turning in their reports.
We vote and chose pros to do this for us and they do it for a period of time and then new candidates and then we vote again, we can also give them some benefits for doing this for the community.

On October 25 2011 10:04 Theeakoz wrote:
Guys I have a solution, go read it and if you like it upvote it
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/lnt62/from_what_i_saw_on_the_tl_interview_with_dustin/

On October 25 2011 10:03 WArped wrote:
'

They do use pros. I know Sen is often contributing to balance discussion at Blizzard; anyway the game is almost as balanced as you can make WoL without adding new units, maybe a few tiny exceptions.

On October 25 2011 10:04 Theeakoz wrote:
Guys I have a solution, go read it and if you like it upvote it
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/lnt62/from_what_i_saw_on_the_tl_interview_with_dustin/

On October 25 2011 10:07 Matkap wrote:
Well wasn't David Kim a progamer?

On October 25 2011 09:57 Pyre wrote:
Good interview, worries me how clueless they act on stuff. How can you not think about how the game changes adding new units. Only adding because they are cool scares me. Yes they can be tweaked but by how much? I hope they do come up with something for the map problem. Lol at him wearing a terran shirt and not coming up with a downside to terran.

On October 25 2011 10:04 Theeakoz wrote:
Guys I have a solution, go read it and if you like it upvote it
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/lnt62/from_what_i_saw_on_the_tl_interview_with_dustin/

On October 25 2011 10:06 Kafkaesk wrote:
Can somebody tell me if GSL is running on Battle.net?
I never saw any lag or connection issues during a GSL match, but plenty on other tournaments.
I wonder if they use a special GSL tournament server for those matches, and if yes, why not making those available for other major tournaments too?

On October 25 2011 10:08 FreudianTrip wrote:


While it's a totally revolutionary idea (/sarcasm) it doesn't even work very well. Having worked in the HoN community, (where they had a super secret forum for pros to balance whine) I've seen how badly it fails.

On October 25 2011 10:12 Theeakoz wrote:

What you're saying is the opposite of what my idea is, I said 3 pros community picked openly do this repeatedly withing a certain time frame, you're talking about some secreft forum but that's not what I said...
also I said the picked pros are like senators, they have a certain period where they do this and then the community picks a new representative.

On October 25 2011 10:11 Naughty wrote:



The internet is FAR more stable in Korea compared to the rest of the world.

Kennigit: Pro-cess, pro-cess pro-cess.

Browder: Prawcess, prawcess prawcess prawcess.

On October 22 2011 05:02 Node wrote:
One of the most brilliant characteristics of fights in Brood War was the way space on the map was controlled. Units such as siege tanks, spider mines, lurkers, and arbiters emphasized this control of space, and led to battles that could range across entire maps. Look at nearly any Terran game in Brood War, and the tank line that inevitably stretched for miles. In SC2, one of the primary criticisms is the way battles often come down to "ball vs ball", instead of these epic fights over large swaths of space. Is there any desire to bring back this old style of battle, and if so, what is being done to do so?

On October 25 2011 10:12 Revelatus wrote:
To speak towards the pathing issues, they could do something similar to the formation toggle that War 3 had. You can choose to let your army act as it does now, clumping up into a tight ball, or you could toggle on the formation option for that control group and the units would keep a reasonable spread from each other as they move around the map, staying in formation.

I was actually surprised to see how Blizzard created so many great innovations between the release of Broodwar and the development and release of War 3, yet very few of those innovations were used as inspiration for SC2 design.

On October 25 2011 09:54 MorroW wrote:
perfect interview, i wish it could be longer filled with more awesome questions

i think we really need to stop ask them about lan tho, its starting to get annoying

ive really gained alot respect for blizzard lately as they explained more about how they go about balance things makes really much sense. its like they started with a stone and now they shaped it, they cant make it larger so they start off with a new and bigger stone to shape. the process might take a while and im sure the game will be more imbalanced the first few months but the end result is gonna be even more awesome


its true

On October 25 2011 10:16 Node wrote:


I got my questions answered. :D Thanks TL!

On October 25 2011 10:12 Theeakoz wrote:

What you're saying is the opposite of what my idea is, I said 3 pros community picked openly do this repeatedly withing a certain time frame, you're talking about some secreft forum but that's not what I said...
also I said the picked pros are like senators, they have a certain period where they do this and then the community picks a new representative.

On October 25 2011 10:04 Theeakoz wrote:
Guys I have a solution, go read it and if you like it upvote it
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/lnt62/from_what_i_saw_on_the_tl_interview_with_dustin/

On October 25 2011 10:19 AxelTVx wrote:
......... DB'S responses just made me facepalm so much..... How can you be so clueles....

On October 25 2011 09:53 DrGreen wrote:


But he doesnt really care about LAN for big tournaments >< I doubt it will be made before LotV

On October 25 2011 10:20 lowercase wrote:
Great interview, but I still don't have a lot of faith in Browder. I think he's living in a developer's bubble of statistics and models, but I don't think he really pays much attention to the anecdotal balance opinions of the community. Plus, he plays Terran and thinks the game is balanced...

On October 25 2011 09:40 ffadicted wrote:
It's a terran shirt cuz of wings of liberty lol some ppl

Great interview guys, great job kennigit, certainly a lot of interesting answers. I'm really looking forward to beta, I'm still not convinced any any of the new units except the viper

On October 25 2011 10:20 Liquid`Tyler wrote:

I don't think anyone wants to listen to a person who would provide a link to their comment posted on another forum as a new thread containing a link to the thread they're replying to as a reference.

On October 25 2011 09:40 shindigs wrote:
I like his discussion over the Creep Tumors. Really interesting how something that started out with negative feedback turn into something very definitive of Zerg.

On October 25 2011 10:25 Theeakoz wrote:

The idea is there, I sent it on reddit because it is easier to get noticed there. Then I provided a link for the redditors in case they don't know what I am talking about.
The idea is the important thing, if you want to comment, comment on the idea.

On October 25 2011 10:24 FreudianTrip wrote:


Did you just say about balance, ignore statistics listen to anecdotal evidence...? Really?

On October 25 2011 10:27 FryktSkyene wrote:


Why don't you just copy n paste why you typed on reddit, and then at the bottom provide a link to it...

On October 25 2011 10:29 lowercase wrote:

Yes, really. If your stats aren't matching up with real-world evidence, you may need to re-evaluate your statistical methods. This is quite common in science. It's pure hubris if you put complete faith in your model and discount the public who can, if you listen, tell you a thing or two you may have missed.

On October 25 2011 10:32 Shiori wrote:
his dodging one the LAN question was pretty funny. otherwise, this improved my opinion of DB a bit. I no longer thing he's actively trying to screw up the game. I just think he's inexperienced and doesn't know what he's doing now. either that or DK is pulling more strings.

On October 25 2011 10:32 Shiori wrote:
his dodging one the LAN question was pretty funny. otherwise, this improved my opinion of DB a bit. I no longer thing he's actively trying to screw up the game. I just think he's inexperienced and doesn't know what he's doing now. either that or DK is pulling more strings.

On October 25 2011 09:57 DeltruS wrote:
I don't really like how:

• He said "We don't want unfinished community maps on ladder" when the community made maps are often better than Blizzards own maps by far.
  

[*]He said that the game can't change its pathing, and that they are adding new units to get players to split up units. People in plat-mid diamond can't even split their units, and AOE is extremely strong. We don't even see how bad AOE damage is in pro games because the pros have already adapted to the crazy imba-ness of AoE, so they can side-step it.

[*]He says that LAN isn't coming because it is too much work, when there is a community made LAN that can't be used in tournaments because of Blizzard. Whatever, I don't really care as long as they can set up a server with 100 ms default ping so it is similar to practice conditions.

Whenever he got to a question that was really important to the community, he just downplayed it, and then eventually just said "no". I really hate how they do that. Companies like Valve acknowledge what the community wants and implements them even though their games (dota 2 for example) are in alpha.

Still, thanks DB for the interview. I enjoyed it.

On October 25 2011 10:32 Shiori wrote:
his dodging one the LAN question was pretty funny. otherwise, this improved my opinion of DB a bit. I no longer thing he's actively trying to screw up the game. I just think he's inexperienced and doesn't know what he's doing now. either that or DK is pulling more strings.

On October 25 2011 10:32 Shiori wrote:
his dodging one the LAN question was pretty funny. otherwise, this improved my opinion of DB a bit. I no longer thing he's actively trying to screw up the game. I just think he's inexperienced and doesn't know what he's doing now. either that or DK is pulling more strings.

On October 25 2011 10:25 Theeakoz wrote:

The idea is there, I sent it on reddit because it is easier to get noticed there. Then I provided a link for the redditors in case they don't know what I am talking about.
The idea is the important thing, if you want to comment, comment on the idea.

On October 25 2011 10:12 Theeakoz wrote:

What you're saying is the opposite of what my idea is, I said 3 pros community picked openly do this repeatedly withing a certain time frame, you're talking about some secreft forum but that's not what I said...
also I said the picked pros are like senators, they have a certain period where they do this and then the community picks a new representative.

On October 25 2011 10:38 Draconicfire wrote:
Oh God. He says "Right" more than JP says "Sean".

Good interview though, I find these types of interviews really interesting.

On October 25 2011 10:15 Ciraxis wrote:
Don't know why Browder gets all the hate in the community. I think he's trying his best and that's what's important.

On October 25 2011 10:43 Kimaker wrote:
Very nice interview. While I don't agree with everything Browder has to say on balance, his hearts definitely in the right place and over the past year the team working on WoL has proven that they can balance a game given some time.

"...right? right."- Dustin Browder

On October 25 2011 10:40 pzea469 wrote:
I don't hate Dustin. I like the guy. But he isn't taking the game in the direction that a lot of us would like it to go. Death balls, and just units balling up, even when not at 200, just looks and feels off. No real highground advantage. No real micro. Things that add real depth to the game. And i'm sick of hearing that I can go play broodwar. I know I can. Just because adding things like this to fix Starcraft 2 would bring it closer to how broodwar was, doesn't mean it shouldn't be added. So I think it's best to stop asking for these things. It's obvious that the only way to play this dream game that I have in my head, of SC2 with real micro that fans can see, powerful spells and abilities that cause suspense for viewers, and interesting units is for the community to make it ourselves. SC2 is a great game, but it just isn't my dream game, like bw was while I played that.

Please TL, Make a ProMod already.

On October 25 2011 10:44 Nazza wrote:
Kennigit completely owning Dbro. :D

On October 25 2011 10:40 pzea469 wrote:
I don't hate Dustin. I like the guy. But he isn't taking the game in the direction that a lot of us would like it to go. Death balls, and just units balling up, even when not at 200, just looks and feels off. No real highground advantage. No real micro. Things that add real depth to the game. And i'm sick of hearing that I can go play broodwar. I know I can. Just because adding things like this to fix Starcraft 2 would bring it closer to how broodwar was, doesn't mean it shouldn't be added. So I think it's best to stop asking for these things. It's obvious that the only way to play this dream game that I have in my head, of SC2 with real micro that fans can see, powerful spells and abilities that cause suspense for viewers, and interesting units is for the community to make it ourselves. SC2 is a great game, but it just isn't my dream game, like bw was while I played that.

Please TL, Make a ProMod already.

On October 25 2011 10:20 Liquid`Tyler wrote:

I don't think anyone wants to listen to a person who would provide a link to their comment posted on another forum as a new thread containing a link to the thread they're replying to as a reference.

On October 25 2011 10:06 Kafkaesk wrote:
Can somebody tell me if GSL is running on Battle.net?
I never saw any lag or connection issues during a GSL match, but plenty on other tournaments.
I wonder if they use a special GSL tournament server for those matches, and if yes, why not making those available for other major tournaments too?

On October 25 2011 10:02 Zarahtra wrote:
Nice interview. Never really understood all the hate Dustin gets, seems like a pretty awesome guy.

Still not happy about the last answer, sounds like horrible coding to be honest, if anything and everything is connected together through bnet and can't work unless you have bnet like server. Hope they do find some way to implement lan, even if fx. the computers still have to be connected to bnet(to prevent piracy), just not having the games being played through it, would help a lot.

Also not happy about the map answer, but it really seemed like he didn't understand the question.

On October 25 2011 10:50 lowercase wrote:

I also agree that the balance team is a bit schizophrenic: on the one hand they want to make "tiny changes" and let the community balance the game over time, but then they go and nerf all sorts of interesting strategies (e.g.: archon toilet, high-ground warp-in, speed rays, chain fungals, etc, etc) because they "aren't what they expected players to do."

BW was great because all the abilities were crazy and OP, it's what made the game dynamic and exciting. Watching two deathballs 1a into eachother where whoever gets the best EMPs off wins is hardly enjoyable.

On October 25 2011 10:41 Liquid`Tyler wrote:

Why provide a link to the reddit post in this thread?

The idea is not developed at all and not worth responding to in its current form. I imagine you don't have any special knowledge about designing and balancing games, about being a progamer, or about organizing communities and putting community plans into action. But if you do happen to have the relevant knowledge, then make the proposal as detailed as you possibly can before you present it. It seems that the basic problem you are trying to solve is that progamers' knowledge is a somewhat untapped resource for Blizzard's multiplayer design team. I fail to see how your idea suggests a good way to remedy the situation. It seems like you've just recently realized that this problem exists, you were instantly convinced that it actually is a significant problem that really needs to be fixed, and then you sketched out the first scheme that came to your mind. It leaves a million pitfalls and improves nothing.

On October 25 2011 11:16 Ouga wrote:
Well, that sounds like we're not getting LAN -_- getting that much of a direct response from him. Would've been cool if he said what exactly is the problem - definately not the amount of work put into coding it, so guess it has to be antipiracy agenda?

On October 25 2011 10:04 Theeakoz wrote:
Guys I have a solution, go read it and if you like it upvote it
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/lnt62/from_what_i_saw_on_the_tl_interview_with_dustin/

On October 25 2011 09:34 Bartimaeus wrote:
First of all: mad props to the interviewer - that guy's questions were spot on and addressed many prominent issues without provoking Browder or bringing up balance too often. He did a great job and I'd love to see more interviews from him.

To start on Browder:
Negative:
His shirt is a Terran shirt. Awesome lol.
He talks about ways the Replicator would be removed (one of them already being in the alpha play [no massive]) . . . before its even in the game.
He says the drawback of Terran is that you are . . . too complete? too good? This is, imo, a little ridiculous as even the person who designed Terran can't find a drawback to the race - as he is the one who should know the race better than any other. His inability to find a strong flaw is astounding and revealing.
He's saying that he doesn't want to fix the pathfinder because he believes it will still be ball-on-ball action, just slightly smaller - his option is to take food out of the balls, which is essentially doing the same thing - making the balls smaller?
He's crossing his fingers and saying "Maybe!" when he's talking about a unit (Swarm Host) he's going to throw into this game that will affect the income of many pros in varying ways.
He dismisses the option of Lan by saying that it is a lot of work for them - not by saying that it would affect them negatively financially. I'd wish that he chose the other option because saying that it will be hard for them to do is almost taunting us, saying that he just doesn't want to work on it.

Positive:
I'm glad that he could at least admit that the map issue was a problem instead of just dismissing it like the question about the drawback of playing Terran.
I liked that he admits that he realizes the gravity of his decisions (later in the cast, after the Swarm host finger crossing).
I'm happy that he admits that some problems exist, such as PvT in Korea.

Overall the person interviewing Browder was flawless, and I'm disappointed with Browder's responses on a majority of the issues he spoke on.

On October 25 2011 09:53 DrGreen wrote:


But he doesnt really care about LAN for big tournaments >< I doubt it will be made before LotV

On October 25 2011 11:15 Theeakoz wrote:


You're mostly right, appreciate your sense of logic. I should have thought and researched more on the subject...
well, pro gamers are not designers after all.

On October 25 2011 10:36 aksfjh wrote:

How do you determine if the map is "better"? You may think it looks better, or prefer how they use rocks, but many times map preference is just that, preference. For example, plenty of maps get a chance on GSL, and many maps there end up being vetoed for balance concerns.


He's talking about splitting up units for different attack paths. If AoE gets to the point where turtling gets too strong, as long as it isn't very mobile, you would be able to out econ your opponent anyways. It's just something lower skilled players would have to deal with.


It is too much work to turn it into a product. For something they're not even thrilled about in the first place, adding in the infrastructure to support a professional interface both online and offline is a lot of work. Can I as a novice programmer create apps for simple, personal use? Yes, but it sure as hell isn't something I can sell to a customer.


If you think this is the case, then go play DotA 2 and TF2. Nobody is bending your arm to pay attention to their response to the community. You obviously care enough about what they've done already with that same attitude to buy and participate in the SC2 community, but by all means go worship Valve if you think their approach produces better games.

On October 25 2011 09:26 Zozo wrote:
Very nice interview, I was hoping you would ask about tournaments removing close spawns and adding that supply depot near the ramps. 20 minutes well spent, thanks!

On October 25 2011 10:57 AutomatonOmega wrote:
Yeah I was a little unsettled by the terran shirt too.

On October 25 2011 11:39 Plansix wrote:


He does care, but they are making the expansion, D3 and an expansion for WoW. There is a lot going on at Blizzard.

On October 25 2011 11:47 DeltruS wrote:




I consider many community made maps to be better because they actually receive testing from pros and are analyzed by teams which have been making maps for years.

By not accepting the community maps they are removing all motivation for mapmakers to make good maps and are also creating a divide between tournaments and ladder. They should at least create a system where pros can directly influence how a map is made.

Your last point is pretty bad. They are different games, and I can play both. Why should the customer have to make a compromise? The concept of supply and demand doesn't work here; if Blizzard decides to only provide some features, it won't die out or get forced to change due to other people switching to different games. Blizzard has a monopoly on good RTS games, so it is only the player base that gets screwed if they make a bad decision.

They always say that they take in feedback, but I haven't seen them implement any of the things that are really important to the community, other than their chat channels.

On October 25 2011 09:44 Faggatron wrote:
No lan, but I'm at least glad that the reason seems to be that it will require rewriting the entire game, rather than just bli$$$$$$$ trying to stop pirates by punishing everyone else.