They definately need to do something to prevent this from happening, whether it be only allowing the cannon on a gateway, core, etc or having a radius around the Nexus that the Arc Shield can be used against, it needs to be balanced

GentleDrill

United Kingdom672 Posts

October 22 2011 22:13 GMT

#42

So one person gets hit by something because he doesn't know about it and it's OP? Jesus you people, did you not hear about Artosis trying it on somebody else who actually bothered to respond and ended up losing all of 20 hit points on a single SCV?

At most it needs to require a Gateway (I assumed it did but judging by the anecdote it doesn't). Then it's in the same place on the tech tree as the Shield Battery was and will serve a similar purpose.

[EDIT] Actually on consideration the Artosis anecdote involved a Pylon, which costs more and has much less HP than an Assimilator. Nonetheless, there's still a ton of ways to render this a non-issue.

ChineseWife

United States373 Posts

October 22 2011 22:13 GMT

#43

does it really 2-shot probes or is the OP exaggerating quite a bit? JP said that artosis did a pylon arc shield rush in his mineral line and only one of his scvs lost around 5 hp before the pylon was taken down...

MonkSEA

Australia1227 Posts

October 22 2011 22:14 GMT

#44

A little bit better fix that would be great at stopping 6/7 pools when you FFE is to have an area of effect around the nexus that covers up until your ramp on most maps. That or Forge/Gateway/Cyber Core requirement..

Scorevath

United States43 Posts

October 22 2011 22:14 GMT

#45

On October 23 2011 07:10 lariat wrote:

Show nested quote +

The arc shield cannon only does damage to light units, so no. This won't be a problem. It also lasts for a short amount of time, too, so even if it could damage buildings, it still wouldn't be viable.

Why not just do a normal pylon block as protoss? Then zerg can't place their hatch at the natural and if they dry and kill the pylon with the normal 4-6 lings then you cast arc shield and kill them.

Reborn8u

United States1761 Posts

October 22 2011 22:15 GMT

#46

I just hope that when things are broken they don't haphazardly remove them or nerf them into the ground. Instead they take a long look at the problem and use a fix that is very specific to the issue at hand, which doesn't make things useless all game long. Requiring the cyber core for the arc shield is a perfect example of a good way to fix, because if early lings come and you scouted them last you will probably have your cyber down, but if someone cannon rushes they won't have a cyber and the defender probably will. But if a zerg is trying to take their natural, they can kill the pylon with some drones and lings before your cyber is up.

So that it isn't stupid strong and early for offense, and actually applies to it's intended purpose, defense.

marcelluspye

United States155 Posts

October 22 2011 22:16 GMT

#47

I think making the ability so that it only targets unit-producing structures might work. It would make the ability way less effective for early cheese and still retain the use even when buildings are spread out.

Lorch

Germany3666 Posts

October 22 2011 22:17 GMT

#48

I doubt that will even be possible in the beta in that form. No need to freak out guys, I don't even want to know what crazy stuff one could do in a really early pre-beta wol build.

BushidoSnipr

United States910 Posts

October 22 2011 22:17 GMT

#49

This might be a bit overexaggerated, or really imbalanced

lololol sounds rly fun though

MrHoon

10183 Posts

October 22 2011 22:18 GMT

#50

if they just make a range limit starting from the nexus it doesn't seem like an issue.

casualman

United States1198 Posts

October 22 2011 22:19 GMT

#51

On October 23 2011 07:14 Scorevath wrote:

Show nested quote +

Why not just do a normal pylon block as protoss? Then zerg can't place their hatch at the natural and if they dry and kill the pylon with the normal 4-6 lings then you cast arc shield and kill them.

This isn't any different than a normal pylon block. Zerg just backs off for 20 seconds and waits for arc shield to dissipate, or he can maybe take his 3rd first, followed by his 2nd if he is doing the fast 3 base gasless style. Protoss then just wasted 1 or 2 chronoboosts for no good reason, and 75 minerals he could've received from canceling the pylon.

I'm not defending the arc shield cannon, I think its stupid and should just be an armor buff. But the criticisms you give aren't valid.

willoc

Canada1530 Posts

October 22 2011 22:19 GMT

#52

It will probably require a gateway to use arc shield. Makes sense for toss too due to them not having access of a different defence (ish) structure from making gateway.

Ashes

United States362 Posts

October 22 2011 22:20 GMT

#53

Hey to be honest.. when i came to know about the arc shield. This is the first thing I thought about. Being a protoss, I chuckled, But i thought that the damage was supposed to be low. But this is interesting lol!! Pylon and assimilator rush haha

silverhand

United States91 Posts

October 22 2011 22:27 GMT

#54

As soon as this was announced, I knew this would be the fate of Arc Shield in early cheese strats. I'm not sure how Blizzard takes feedback or suggestions, but if the intent is to give Protoss some defense against early aggression, there are a few better ways I can see of doing this without allowing it to be used offensively:

1. The cannon ability is only activated for attacking units, so any units on attack move, patrol, or hold position, would be targeted, but workers gathering minerals would be ignored as well as enemy buildings (an exception could be made for bunkers since they serve as an attack functionality)

2. Arch Shield could act as inverse damage (my favorite option) in that when it is cast on a building, all attacks that take place in that building's field of vision are deflected back to the attacker. So if a marine fires in the field of vision of a building with Arc Shield, that marine takes 6 damage (assuming no upgrades). It would be similar to PDD except that it has the ability to deal damage to the attacker - of course you have the option to require detection in order to tell which building has the Arc Shield ability cast on it:

- modification #1 if original idea is proven to be too strong - have the building absorb half the damage in return for inflicting half the damage on the attacking unit - e.g. building takes 3 damage and marine takes 3 damage. If cast on the nexus, then the workers take twice as long to kill and the attacker only has a limited amount of time they can keep up the harass before having to retreat.

- modification #2 if original idea is balanced, but too cheesy when used on proxy pylons in battles: just remove the ability to cast it on a pylon

- modification #3 if they are hell bent against it dealing damage as a solution to early cheese, simply make Arc shield like the PDD where it nullifies attack damage from all units in its vision.

3. Simply require the Nexus to have vision of the building it casts Arc Shield on in order to prevent long range casting. If the idea is to enable Protoss the ability to defend against harass and early aggression, then casting Arc Shield on the Nexus, Assimilator, or a Pylon within vision should be sufficient to protect mineral lines.

Just some ideas...not sure if anyone in Blizzard considered them...seems this early cheese should have been a no-brainer.

tuho12345

4482 Posts

October 22 2011 22:29 GMT

#55

This should work on the Nexus only. Just like the PF.

Ranti

Poland24 Posts

October 22 2011 22:30 GMT

#56

I wonder why blizz even add sth like this, i feel that the most of hots changes are unnecessary to current balance and metagame. Idk why blizz is so scared about mutas that they need to make tempest instead buffing/changing carrier which is one of the icons of sc saga, same with oracle why just dont add arbiters, stasis would be great to control battlefield. As for zerg player point of view i am a bit dissapointed that overseer is gone. after 50/50 buff they were great, i cannot remember single game at lair stage when i didnt make at least one. Viper while make detection much harder and since only spores will left some dt/oracle/phoenix might became much more powerful than dt/sair vs Z.