On October 22 2011 20:25 SharkStarcraft wrote: Tempest is just silly, how can a fleet beacon unit counter the Mutalisk? Even if you scout the spire immediately, building the beacon+ investing 300/300 in a unit that takes 75 Seconds to build? You've got to be kidding me. And a single one for sure can't handle like 10 Mutas, which your opponent will have for sure by the time that thing pops out of the starport. Looks cool, but that's it. Not well thought out in my opinion.
maybe it can handle 10+ mutas, dont make claims without any evidence....
On October 22 2011 20:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: 300/300 is kind of ridiculous, especially the gas cost. And 75 seconds for the Tempest too?
Protoss is already the gas-heaviest race. I didn't have the time or resources to ever make a carrier. When will I be able to make the tempest? It's just not gonna be in a standard unit composition, as far as I can see.
I agree about the gas cost, just pointing out that 75 seconds is a fast build time, compared to the 120 seconds of the carrier. With Chrono Boost, you coult get down the build time under a minute, instead of the 90 seconds of a carrier fully chrono boosted.
Tempest is designed, and I quote from the Q&A: "designed to take out huge numbers of mutas, 40-60 at a time."
So basically the unit is made to deal with these clumps of 50 Mutalisks that we so often (???) see in pro games. If the opponent is going the 50 mutas build on you, you best start building the fleet beacon.
As for the shredder, I really don't see how zerg can deal with it efficiently. Just drop it in the mineral line, possibly with some marines and it will take out all zerglings that comes to reinforce as well as all the drones.
There may be two shredders in the video but their fields cannot overlap, so the damage would be the same if it was just one.
On October 22 2011 20:25 SharkStarcraft wrote: Tempest is just silly, how can a fleet beacon unit counter the Mutalisk? Even if you scout the spire immediately, building the beacon+ investing 300/300 in a unit that takes 75 Seconds to build? You've got to be kidding me. And a single one for sure can't handle like 10 Mutas, which your opponent will have for sure by the time that thing pops out of the starport. Looks cool, but that's it. Not well thought out in my opinion.
I think it will more end up beeing a supplement unit to phoenixes against mutas.
pretty sure the idea is that if your opponent gets 1 muta, you get pheonixes. if he gets 40 mutas, you get the tempest. it's not the end all counter to mutalisks, nor should it be, it's the counter to the late game mass mutalisk that otherwise seems so hard to stop. this was made pretty clear if you listened to what they say about it.
On October 22 2011 20:25 SharkStarcraft wrote: Tempest is just silly, how can a fleet beacon unit counter the Mutalisk? Even if you scout the spire immediately, building the beacon+ investing 300/300 in a unit that takes 75 Seconds to build? You've got to be kidding me. And a single one for sure can't handle like 10 Mutas, which your opponent will have for sure by the time that thing pops out of the starport. Looks cool, but that's it. Not well thought out in my opinion.
maybe it can handle 10+ mutas, dont make claims without any evidence....
Yeah that wont happen...
Am I the only one to think that Protoss really didnt need that kind of unit in the first place? Groundforces with blink stalker/archons/hts are a pretty decent counter even though you are kinda forced to stay in your base and phoenix are not all that bad against mutas. So why would they add that unit in the first place, i srsly dont get it.
So many nerds are going to throw such tantrums over this, take the usual patch whine and multiply it by a million
Neeyyyrr we can't deal with change.. neeyyyrr the game is now broken.. aaand so on and so forth
I for one welcome our new changes, it'll almost be like the beta all over again, everyone "rediscovering" the game, fun times!
I am also sick of all the naysayers. Why do some people have to be so quick to start trashing new ideas from Blizzard? Sure, something may look OP or useless now, but until this stuff is tested in professional games we don't know. And here's the good news! If something does turn out to be OP or useless, Blizzard has unlimited time to nerf or buff it. I'm tired of all these overly-reactionary nerds who think trashing Blizzard is the new black.
Have faith - all things considered, at the very least Blizzard has produced a game that managed to attract hundreds, if not thousands, of screaming fans to watch the GSL Code S final today. HotS will screw things up for a while (aka provide some very interesting months of Starcraft). Most of us are not professional SC2 players and haven't invested our livelihoods into this game, so embrace the changes and enjoy the experience!
This is a company, not a religion. You sound like another victim of marketing.
If you have positive impressions, post them. But let the people who dislike the changes voice their opinion too.
You should be ashamed of yourself for standing up for a corporation of all things.
I am not a victim of marketing, unless you consider the production of an extremely good game "marketing".
I'm not trying to stop people voicing their negative opinions, I'm merely voicing my opinion on why the whinging is stupid.
As for your last comment, it just seems dumb, a trait displayed by most of the posters in this thread, so I'm not surprised. There is noting inherently wrong in something being a corporation. Dustin and David are very prominent faces of Blizzard anyway, so if it makes you feel differently, just pretend I'm standing up for them instead.
Oh, so all the negative comments are stupid? Give it a rest.
In fact, they specifically asked for community feedback. Beyond that, you're just ignoring the multitude of points made and dismissing them as meritless. Sheesh.
On October 22 2011 20:32 Paladia wrote: Tempest is designed, and I quote from the Q&A: "designed to take out huge numbers of mutas, 40-60 at a time."
So basically the unit is made to deal with these clumps of 50 Mutalisks that we so often (???) see in pro games. If the opponent is going the 50 mutas build on you, you best start building the fleet beacon.
As for the shredder, I really don't see how zerg can deal with it efficiently. Just drop it in the mineral line, possibly with some marines and it will take out all zerglings that comes to reinforce as well as all the drones.
I like the most new stuff. More zone control for terran and zerg really should make the game less dynamic aka more broodwaresque. The designs for t and z units are pretty cool aswell, no complains there. The tempest seems only to be designed to kill mass mutas which is a good thing but cut the protoss "capital" ship to this single role seems a little odd to me. Oracle and replicators need to be field tested, i think, some nice ideas in them. It will be nice to see how they actually work out. The most important thing will be the new nexus, helps defending 4 gates and allins, moreover you are finally able to escape from marodeurs, blizzard you heard my prayers
I dont care too much about the bonus to light the tempest is supposed to have so it has +5 to light and kills mutas a little better than other air units maybe not too important.
I could have insane durability and you have to kill it before focusing the colossi as otherwise all your Vikings/Corrupters will die to it meaning the colossi can really get to work their magic or something who knows.
New Protoss units seem really gas heavy. NOT what they needed at all. Protoss lacked a cheap, early game harass unit. A better version of the Phoenix basically.
Why do they implement slow moving capital ships? No one thinks its fun to use slow units that cost 300/300 and require tier 5 level tech. This unit will probably not be used other than bronze league.
Blizzard even said they didn't want to make the Protoss death ball stronger. That will be the Tempest's only role I think, what Protoss players build 40 minutes into the game to get a stronger max than the enemy.
Protoss is getting the best abilities (both new nexus abilities are pretty awesome) and the worst units. Protoss is too weak, buff Terran and Zerg.
Wait...what?
Tempest is a TERRIBLE unit. Protoss can already beat mass-muta with blink, storm and archons. Mutas are a BITCH to deal with, but dealt with they can be (not to mention on most maps you just kill him if he's going 2-base muta). Absolutely useless. The Carrier should have gotten a buff, especially now that Terran's can mech more easily (still not sure how viable TvP mech is though). On the other hand fits the general them of most Protoss stargate units: Too expensive, situational, one-dimensional, crap.
Oracle seems ok at first glance because Protoss is desperate for a harass unit. However the Oracle seems ridiculously weak for the cost (especially seeing as you need what is generally out-of-the way tech to get it). Need to see this one in action more before making a definitive decision.
Replicant should be half the price it is seeing as it likely won't benefit from upgrades and can't replicate anything worthwhile (unless it can get SCVs, which are the best worker in the game, although still not worth 200/200). Only use I can see is vs the 1-1-1 -> You replicate tanks and hold it off ez-pz. But it's still not worth 200 gas. Single-player unit AT BEST, IMO.
Also, BRING BACK THE FUCKING CARRIER! It's arguably the most iconic unit in the game and yeah, nobody uses it (because marines are OP and Corruptors lol @ them) but you could fix that by making it NOT A PIECE OF SHIT.
FYI: I apologise to anybody I run into on the ladder looking for a real game. Whenever I roll Protoss, I'm Carrier rushing.
For Terran I actually like what they are doing, except for the Thor which for some reason seems to cost no gas? WTF!? This makes it free, just like marines and Hellions because Terran always has more minerals than everybody else due to Mules .
For Zerg I like everything except the lurker replacement (Swarm Lord is it?). It's a good idea but in the current implementation it's just bad. It's a Brood Lord that's worse and dies to Colossi, Marines, Tanks...in fact basically everything. Actually, other than the Phoenix (which also can't realistically kill brood lords) there's no unit that can't kill it (excepting units that don't attack). This can be fixed by having the swarm lord spawn mini-banelings.
On October 22 2011 20:25 SharkStarcraft wrote: Tempest is just silly, how can a fleet beacon unit counter the Mutalisk? Even if you scout the spire immediately, building the beacon+ investing 300/300 in a unit that takes 75 Seconds to build? You've got to be kidding me. And a single one for sure can't handle like 10 Mutas, which your opponent will have for sure by the time that thing pops out of the starport. Looks cool, but that's it. Not well thought out in my opinion.
maybe it can handle 10+ mutas, dont make claims without any evidence....
Yeah that wont happen...
Am I the only one to think that Protoss really didnt need that kind of unit in the first place? Groundforces with blink stalker/archons/hts are a pretty decent counter even though you are kinda forced to stay in your base and phoenix are not all that bad against mutas. So why would they add that unit in the first place, i srsly dont get it.
blizzard is out of touch i feel.
they stated that terrans weakness was late game zealots......if im not mistaken EMP and maruder bio balls kiting pretty much reduce ALL damage that zealots can do?
then they say protoss is losing to mutalisks numbers >50..... um?
i stick by my opinion that they are turning this game into gimmicky and wc3 esque.
On October 22 2011 20:32 Paladia wrote: Tempest is designed, and I quote from the Q&A: "designed to take out huge numbers of mutas, 40-60 at a time."
So basically the unit is made to deal with these clumps of 50 Mutalisks that we so often (???) see in pro games. If the opponent is going the 50 mutas build on you, you best start building the fleet beacon.
As for the shredder, I really don't see how zerg can deal with it efficiently. Just drop it in the mineral line, possibly with some marines and it will take out all zerglings that comes to reinforce as well as all the drones.
There may be two shredders in the video but their fields cannot overlap, so the damage would be the same if it was just one.
@ Shredder
It has to burrow first to even attack, so they could just extend the burrow time a bit, and it is unable to activate if friendly units are nearby.
Well, if the opponents units are close by you won't drop to begin with. It's just that a drop with a shredder and marine support in the back will be very hard to deal with.
On October 22 2011 20:32 Paladia wrote: Tempest is designed, and I quote from the Q&A: "designed to take out huge numbers of mutas, 40-60 at a time."
So basically the unit is made to deal with these clumps of 50 Mutalisks that we so often (???) see in pro games. If the opponent is going the 50 mutas build on you, you best start building the fleet beacon.
As for the shredder, I really don't see how zerg can deal with it efficiently. Just drop it in the mineral line, possibly with some marines and it will take out all zerglings that comes to reinforce as well as all the drones.
There may be two shredders in the video but their fields cannot overlap, so the damage would be the same if it was just one.
The shredder will not attack stuff if there's a friendly unit within the field. On the other hand; it seems really wierd that they'd add this to the race that already has the planetary, the best a-a towers and repair for both of these. I always felt like terran had very good chances of defending expansions.
Then again, I kinda like the unit. I like playing terran very contain-ish and I've got a feeling this would help.
On October 22 2011 20:32 Paladia wrote: Tempest is designed, and I quote from the Q&A: "designed to take out huge numbers of mutas, 40-60 at a time."
So basically the unit is made to deal with these clumps of 50 Mutalisks that we so often (???) see in pro games. If the opponent is going the 50 mutas build on you, you best start building the fleet beacon.
As for the shredder, I really don't see how zerg can deal with it efficiently. Just drop it in the mineral line, possibly with some marines and it will take out all zerglings that comes to reinforce as well as all the drones.
On October 22 2011 20:32 Paladia wrote: Tempest is designed, and I quote from the Q&A: "designed to take out huge numbers of mutas, 40-60 at a time."
So basically the unit is made to deal with these clumps of 50 Mutalisks that we so often (???) see in pro games. If the opponent is going the 50 mutas build on you, you best start building the fleet beacon.
As for the shredder, I really don't see how zerg can deal with it efficiently. Just drop it in the mineral line, possibly with some marines and it will take out all zerglings that comes to reinforce as well as all the drones.
There may be two shredders in the video but their fields cannot overlap, so the damage would be the same if it was just one.
@ Shredder
It has to burrow first to even attack, so they could just extend the burrow time a bit, and it is unable to activate if friendly units are nearby.
Well, if the opponents units are close by you won't drop to begin with. It's just that a drop with a shredder and marine support in the back will be very hard to deal with.
I believe it's friendly units, not the opponent's that cause it to not activate. So you probably can't have marines behind it as that would cause it to not fire. Dunno the exact radius on that though.
On October 22 2011 20:25 SharkStarcraft wrote: Tempest is just silly, how can a fleet beacon unit counter the Mutalisk? Even if you scout the spire immediately, building the beacon+ investing 300/300 in a unit that takes 75 Seconds to build? You've got to be kidding me. And a single one for sure can't handle like 10 Mutas, which your opponent will have for sure by the time that thing pops out of the starport. Looks cool, but that's it. Not well thought out in my opinion.
maybe it can handle 10+ mutas, dont make claims without any evidence....
Don't make any assumptions based on nothing...
Protoss is buttfucked with HoTS.
How are you able to Mass recall with your Nexus when you must spend every Energy on fucking Chrono boosts in order to not get behind in tech and economy. That stupid Shield Ability is probably only usefull for preventing 6 pools with standart openings and won't solve PEW PEW Medivac drops which kills tech buildings faster than reavers in bw.
Zerg and Terrans gets cool new stuff while shitty Protoss units getting replaced by another weirdo units.....
On October 22 2011 20:32 Paladia wrote: Tempest is designed, and I quote from the Q&A: "designed to take out huge numbers of mutas, 40-60 at a time."
So basically the unit is made to deal with these clumps of 50 Mutalisks that we so often (???) see in pro games. If the opponent is going the 50 mutas build on you, you best start building the fleet beacon.
As for the shredder, I really don't see how zerg can deal with it efficiently. Just drop it in the mineral line, possibly with some marines and it will take out all zerglings that comes to reinforce as well as all the drones.
There may be two shredders in the video but their fields cannot overlap, so the damage would be the same if it was just one.
@ Shredder
It has to burrow first to even attack, so they could just extend the burrow time a bit, and it is unable to activate if friendly units are nearby.
Well, if the opponents units are close by you won't drop to begin with. It's just that a drop with a shredder and marine support in the back will be very hard to deal with.
I believe it's friendly units, not the opponent's that cause it to not activate. So you probably can't have marines behind it as that would cause it to not fire. Dunno the exact radius on that though.
With behind it I mean behind the actual field, so it still activates.
Here is how I see things. I feel disappointed, if those projects make it to the release. The lack of creativity is obvious by stating the fact that we have redesigned Brood War units.
'New' units:
Facelifted firebat (battle helion).
Facelifted goliath (war hound).
Facelifted defiler that can fly now.
Facelifted corsair.
Facelifted vulture or at least its mine mechanics.
EPT
.
