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On October 22 2011 10:41 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 10:37 Yosen3002 wrote:On October 22 2011 10:34 Disquiet wrote:
Why don't people like the protoss + terran units, I think they are cool, I especially like the reaper change and turning the thor into a true super unit. Is it just because there are more zergs on TL? You cant be serious about that. The reaper change is kinda wayne and the Thor change is the most retarded thing in the whole addon. I was happy they removed the mothership, but then i heard they did the same thing to the thor and was like wtf? Other than that i like the new terran units(shredder ftw), their design is still quite lame though. And as a zergplayer i really kinda feel for the protoss guys, because id be pretty pissed seeing these new units. Its like someone went 'What does protoss need.... I know, more ways to be an obnoxious cunt'. No, no that is definitely not what protoss need. Phoenix, sentries, void rays, prism allins are all obnoxious and annoying as hell --- they needed solid units not more flimsy shit that can create wins after which your opponent wants to punch you in the face for being such an annoying bastard. Also reaper change just made them pretty much useless vs zerg... No damage to buildings means reaper bunker rushes are 100% dead. Gonna be annoying as shit vs terran tho, they run in, kill a marine, run out with red hit points, come back full --;
Sentry Drops sure are annoying as #&@$*
With these new Protoss units its gonna be a nightmare!!!
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On October 22 2011 11:25 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 11:19 Woizit wrote:
Um... how's Terran going to do low/high ground siege against Zerg now with a Lair tech pull from the flying Viper?! That seriously sounds OP as hell. so what ur saying is u want zerg to be completly defenseless/cost inefficient against siege tanks like they are now? the problem with siege tanks right now is that marine tank is stupidly cost effective against zerg because they dont have proper defenses against them. dont complain now that we actually have a COST EFFECTIVE unit to deal with tanks now.
Actually, positional control via Shredders might make Vipers a less of a "hard counter", anyway.
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On October 22 2011 11:27 Zeke50100 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 11:25 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 11:19 Woizit wrote:
Um... how's Terran going to do low/high ground siege against Zerg now with a Lair tech pull from the flying Viper?! That seriously sounds OP as hell. so what ur saying is u want zerg to be completly defenseless/cost inefficient against siege tanks like they are now? the problem with siege tanks right now is that marine tank is stupidly cost effective against zerg because they dont have proper defenses against them. dont complain now that we actually have a COST EFFECTIVE unit to deal with tanks now. Actually, positional control via Shredders might make Vipers a less of a "hard counter", anyway.
Wonder if the Viper cloud reduces shredder range. :O
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I've thought about it a bit more, and I think Protoss will not like these changes overall.
It's not that I feel they got weaker, but both Terran and Zerg became more complete while Protoss didn't really get any huge changes in comparison. The Tempest will rarely see play; one of the unit is a scout unit, and the other is situational. Their army will stay mostly the same as in WoL.
Zerg on the other hand is completely revamped. Terran had some minor changes compared to Zerg but they now have weaker/more mobile Thors essentially and more versatile Hellions + a unit that can easily hold a choke for Zergling run by's. They were already a pretty complete race as it was and the Super-Thor that is going to get mass-repaired can only make them even better in the late game.
I didn't think Blizzard would do this but it seems Protoss is only going to become a complete race in multiplayer in LoV.
*EDit : Didn't mention the nexus changes. They are quite huge and might play into how protoss is played and completely change the game. That's true so I guess I'm talking too early. But I meant to say that their army doesn't feel complete vs other races.
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To be fair, it looked a lot smaller in the silhouettes. I'm worried about how expensive these Stargate Units are; does anyone have numbers for the new units? Oracles seem gimmicky, though Phase Shift seems pretty powerful- wonder how that'll be balanced. I don't recall them giving detection, rather ironic tbh.
Oh, Protoss units also got tons of teleportation. The nexus ability seems to be pretty insane; imagine getting a decent deathball and just teleporting it where you need it. With a forward base, it means you can recall to protect against harass at home and recall back to the front. Just wait for the proxy nexus strategy in HotS.
By the way, I heard you were UP, so I replicated your replicator so you can clone while you clone. Makes for some interesting PvP  .
Tempests seem like A-A broodlords now; since they have air dominance en masse, I'm guessing heavy G-A is the counter. Sad to see the carrier go though, its buildtime was the death of it.
Viper Abduct seems ridiculously powerful. It's like being able to pick a unit and blink it. I'm worried mass viper will do what neural did pre-1.4, especially since it has to be affordable to give detection. I'm betting they keep the overseer and scratch the detection part of the viper. Swarm Host, on the other hand, is really really cool-- never mind that I'll probably be losing to it often.
Terran seems okay. 1 Thor only seems to be kind of odd, I suppose you kill it with small fast units? Or just feedback it :3
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I think blizzard is really screwing up protoss. Although excited for the new units, I wish they just give us the old BW units. Why does other race get our spells from BW....
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Toss still needs a cheap, fast viable low tech unit.
No they don't. "Fast and cheap" is anathema to the entire Protoss design philosophy. Expensive, sturdy, and amazing at some highly specialized gimmick or set of abilities, is pretty much the Protoss design philosophy.
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Are you sure those are blizzard maps? I dont see any rocks on these maps?
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On October 22 2011 11:28 Kurr wrote:
I've thought about it a bit more, and I think Protoss will not like these changes overall.
It's not that I feel they got weaker, but both Terran and Zerg became more complete while Protoss didn't really get any huge changes in comparison. The Tempest will rarely see play; one of the unit is a scout unit, and the other is situational. Their army will stay mostly the same as in WoL.
Zerg on the other hand is completely revamped. Terran had some minor changes compared to Zerg but they now have weaker/more mobile Thors essentially and more versatile Hellions + a unit that can easily hold a choke for Zergling run by's. They were already a pretty complete race as it was and the Super-Thor that is going to get mass-repaired can only make them even better in the late game.
I didn't think Blizzard would do this but it seems Protoss is only going to become a complete race in multiplayer in LoV.
*EDit : Didn't mention the nexus changes. They are quite huge and might play into how protoss is played and completely change the game. That's true so I guess I'm talking too early. But I meant to say that their army doesn't feel complete vs other races.
Very true, as a protoss I'm feeling quite bittersweet right now.
I hope they do not remove the Mothership, I was just starting to have fun with it.
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On October 22 2011 11:30 awesomoecalypse wrote:No they don't. "Fast and cheap" is anathema to the entire Protoss design philosophy. Expensive, sturdy, and amazing at some highly specialized gimmick or set of abilities, is pretty much the Protoss design philosophy.
It doesnt have to be cheap as long as its cost effective against lower tier units. none of the current gateway units are. and they are just going to get even more dominated by burrow walking banelings and fast hydralisks.
now you cant even use forcefeild to fend of those banelings? great
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On October 22 2011 11:27 humbre wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 11:25 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 11:19 Woizit wrote:
Um... how's Terran going to do low/high ground siege against Zerg now with a Lair tech pull from the flying Viper?! That seriously sounds OP as hell. so what ur saying is u want zerg to be completly defenseless/cost inefficient against siege tanks like they are now? the problem with siege tanks right now is that marine tank is stupidly cost effective against zerg because they dont have proper defenses against them. dont complain now that we actually have a COST EFFECTIVE unit to deal with tanks now. lol broodlord infestor?
broodlords dont come untill hive tech which usually dont come into play untill 17-20+ mins into the game. marine tank pushes come before the 10 minute mark and will continue untill broods are out.
so please dont give me that bull about broodlords unless u plan to have them at the 8-9minute mark.
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On October 22 2011 11:19 RavenLoud wrote:
I really hope that carriers and motherships are retained.
It's just not fair to remove them, even if carriers aren't used as much, they represent so much to the starcraft fanbase.
The mothership's spells are not exactly made redundant, vortex still has advantages from stasis and it's the only unit with cloaking field...protoss without such unit feels wrong. Recall on mothership is different from Nexus since you can move it around plus units don't get stunned.
This.
Motherships are seeing much more play in PvZ. Carriers are so attached the SC image. Whenever I see my Carriers and Interceptors swarm over my enemy I get a big grin on my face :D. I hope, at the least, they replace the Carrier with the old "Tempest."
As for the new units:
Tempest: ahh so they're like... flying thors? Reminds me of Guardians with AA.
Replicants: who the fuck is going to make a 200 gas unit to clone 1 non-massive unit?
Oracle: Decent idea, but no possibility for micro. Feels like they could be shut down by 1 turret or spore crawler much like phoenix play.
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United States7483 Posts
On October 22 2011 08:45 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 08:29 Whitewing wrote:
The warhounds don't do splash and are anti-armored units. Where are people getting this from? + Show Spoiler +says AOE right in the description.
I got it from one of the people who was testing it at blizzcon and told me it didn't, he was lying/wrong, I apologize.
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On October 22 2011 11:21 Ryder. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 11:03 Lazerlike42 wrote:On October 22 2011 10:59 Ryder. wrote:On October 22 2011 10:54 Lazerlike42 wrote:On October 22 2011 10:50 Klyberess wrote:On October 22 2011 10:43 Cyro wrote:On October 22 2011 10:41 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On October 22 2011 10:37 Yosen3002 wrote:On October 22 2011 10:34 Disquiet wrote:
Why don't people like the protoss + terran units, I think they are cool, I especially like the reaper change and turning the thor into a true super unit. Is it just because there are more zergs on TL? You cant be serious about that. The reaper change is kinda wayne and the Thor change is the most retarded thing in the whole addon. I was happy they removed the mothership, but then i heard they did the same thing to the thor and was like wtf? Other than that i like the new terran units(shredder ftw), their design is still quite lame though. And as a zergplayer i really kinda feel for the protoss guys, because id be pretty pissed seeing these new units. Its like someone went 'What does protoss need.... I know, more ways to be an obnoxious cunt'. No, no that is definitely not what protoss need. Phoenix, sentries, void rays, prism allins are all obnoxious and annoying as hell --- they needed solid units not more flimsy shit that can create wins after which your opponent wants to punch you in the face for being such an annoying bastard. Also reaper change just made them pretty much useless vs zerg... No damage to buildings means reaper bunker rushes are 100% dead. Gonna be annoying as shit vs terran tho, they run in, kill a marine, run out with red hit points, come back full --; "flimsy shit that can create wins after which your opponent wants to punch you in the face for being such an annoying bastard." Why does this remind me so much of TvP bio, hellion drops, conc shell kiting constantly, cloaked banshees with observer snipes and half a dozen other all ins? conc shell is an all-in? wtf are you on about? none of the things you mentioned are really all-ins . . . Yeah, I mean, really none of those things can straight-up win the game. Cloaked banshees either come late enough that you really deserve to lose if you don't already have detection, or are at such a tremendous investment if they come early that you should be able to push immediately and do at least as much damage to the Terran as he's done to you. Hellion drops should be fairly easy to take care of with warpgate. Bio is great until a 2 colossus or a couple of HTs come out with storm, after which it is terrible. Yeah terran never continue making bio after colossus or storm are out do they... Just a question have you ever watched a PvT game? Terran keeps making bio because it's still the best composition vs. Protoss, as Mech is currently far too immobile, but that doesn't meant storm/colossus isn't extremely strong against bio. :o I had no idea Terran bio was struggling against Toss... Maybe they should buff EMP to help them out?
Protoss are starting to really figure it out. Even in just the past couple of weeks, there has been a lot of Terrans struggling against Protoss, and I am not merely talking about MLG. It's not early game Protoss that is strong against Bio. As others have said in this thread, if Protoss has a weakness vs. Terran its early game vs. Bio, which is why so many have been confused that Blizzard's new units are all later game units. It's in the late game, once the death ball has been achieved that bio can be very weak, and we're starting to see this even at the highest levels.
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Does the fact that corruptors lost contaminate mean that viking + bc would be more viable against zerg now?
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It doesnt have to be cheap as long as its cost effective against lower tier units. none of the current gateway units are. and they are just going to get even more dominated by burrow walking banelings and fast hydralisks.
now you cant even use forcefeild to fend of those banelings? great
Baneling burrow move is likely hivetech, and Hydra speed looks like an upgrade as well. Forcefields are not supposed to be that amazing once things get to that stage of the game.
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On October 22 2011 11:25 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 11:19 Woizit wrote:
Um... how's Terran going to do low/high ground siege against Zerg now with a Lair tech pull from the flying Viper?! That seriously sounds OP as hell. so what ur saying is u want zerg to be completly defenseless/cost inefficient against siege tanks like they are now? the problem with siege tanks right now is that marine tank is stupidly cost effective against zerg because they dont have proper defenses against them. dont complain now that we actually have a COST EFFECTIVE unit to deal with tanks now. no longer do we have to suicide thousands and thousands of gas and minerals into a army that is mostly just minerals and barely any gas. infact the only gas comes from the tanks/medivacs.
Oh ouch, the race that takes the most bases and has the best worker production has to spend slightly more to counter an army :C
The viper isn't going to be cost effective, it's just going to be bullshit. Without any way to counter the viper's spells, ling/bling can just roll through marines while tanks get pulled everywhere~and you can't kill the vipers because corrupters rape every anti-air option T has atm.
Zerg have to be cost inefficient to be balanced, because they have the easiest time expanding and the fastest units in the game. Why is it such a problem that it takes a couple more lings/blings than the exact same cost terran army to kill terran?
Unrelated note: I'm going to miss the carrier :C so good in PvP :D
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Oracle: Decent idea, but no possibility for micro. Feels like they could be shut down by 1 turret or spore crawler much like phoenix play.
Um, Oracles can stasis static defense and shut it down. So actually, not only can 1 spore or turret not shut down Oracles, it can no longer shut down Phoenixes, if at least one Oracle is supporting them.
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On October 22 2011 11:28 Kurr wrote:
I've thought about it a bit more, and I think Protoss will not like these changes overall.
It's not that I feel they got weaker, but both Terran and Zerg became more complete while Protoss didn't really get any huge changes in comparison. The Tempest will rarely see play; one of the unit is a scout unit, and the other is situational. Their army will stay mostly the same as in WoL.
Zerg on the other hand is completely revamped. Terran had some minor changes compared to Zerg but they now have weaker/more mobile Thors essentially and more versatile Hellions + a unit that can easily hold a choke for Zergling run by's. They were already a pretty complete race as it was and the Super-Thor that is going to get mass-repaired can only make them even better in the late game.
I didn't think Blizzard would do this but it seems Protoss is only going to become a complete race in multiplayer in LoV.
*EDit : Didn't mention the nexus changes. They are quite huge and might play into how protoss is played and completely change the game. That's true so I guess I'm talking too early. But I meant to say that their army doesn't feel complete vs other races.
I agree. Of the new units,it seems as though terran and zerg have new units that "complete" the race, however protoss(not withstanding further changes) seems to just have replacements for pre-existing units which may require more micro ^^ I don´t know how it will play out in the actual game-play however it seems like protoss is seriously lacking something they can use to do any early-mid game damage(e.g. bunker rush, mutas, drops, lings etc.)
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On October 22 2011 11:35 Active.815 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 11:25 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 11:19 Woizit wrote:
Um... how's Terran going to do low/high ground siege against Zerg now with a Lair tech pull from the flying Viper?! That seriously sounds OP as hell. so what ur saying is u want zerg to be completly defenseless/cost inefficient against siege tanks like they are now? the problem with siege tanks right now is that marine tank is stupidly cost effective against zerg because they dont have proper defenses against them. dont complain now that we actually have a COST EFFECTIVE unit to deal with tanks now. no longer do we have to suicide thousands and thousands of gas and minerals into a army that is mostly just minerals and barely any gas. infact the only gas comes from the tanks/medivacs. Oh ouch, the race that takes the most bases and has the best worker production has to spend slightly more to counter an army :C The viper isn't going to be cost effective, it's just going to be bullshit. Without any way to counter the viper's spells, ling/bling can just roll through marines while tanks get pulled everywhere~and you can't kill the vipers because corrupters rape every anti-air option T has atm. Zerg have to be cost inefficient to be balanced, because they have the easiest time expanding and the fastest units in the game. Why is it such a problem that it takes a couple more lings/blings than the exact same cost terran army to kill terran? Unrelated note: I'm going to miss the carrier :C so good in PvP :D
how will they be bull shit when u have vikings to snipe the vipers from a range of 9? all its going to do is have terrans build vikings earlier which they already do against broodlords anyway. terrans also have the shredders so its not like u terrans have to worry about counter atks anymore...
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/uAvmT.jpg)
