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On October 22 2011 11:03 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 10:58 awesomoecalypse wrote:
I really don't get the Oracle hate. No, it can't kill workers. Who gives a shit, if it can still cause massive economic damage, and force your opponent to pull lots of army units back to defend? Thats what harassment is. Killing workers is one way to do it, but making them useless is another. The Oracle can take tech trees out of commission, it can shut down static defense, and it can shut down an entire mineral line for 45 seconds with one shot. Its fast as hell too. And shutting down static defense synergizes awesomely with Phoenixes, as a spore or turret is no longer enough to utterly nullify Phoenix harass. And it is a get in, get out unit--it doesn't need to stick around while it kills lifted units, or charge up attacks. You fly in, get a shot off and fly out without taking damage, and you've done serious econ damage.
Yes, its expensive. Thats the nature of Protoss. if you want cheap shit, play T or Z. Protoss get extremely expensive, specialized units that are awesome at a given role, and the Oracle looks to be pretty damn awesome at harassment.
If anything, the Oracle looks like it could be too powerful. But frankly, Stargate could use some potent options. i think the problem is that its going to be very hard to balance. its either going to last for like 30-40 seconds and be potentially OP, or its just going to wear off after 10 seconds and not be worth the investment. You know, preventing 20 workers from mining for 10-20 seconds is not as good as KILLING 20 workers and, you know, preventing those from mining for the rest of the game.
Oracle costs 200 fucking gas, and can block ONE (1) mineral patch per cast, which will not even last the full duration if the terran/zerg has atleast a few marines/lings in his base and is not falling asleep. Also keep in mind that you cant get it early game or mid game (since it costs so much gas), so you dont have potential to put pressure with it, like you would with hellions, banshees mutas, baneling drops or even ling runbys. Plus the damage is not permanent,so terran/zerg wouldn't have to actually make new workers or even static defense even to prevent harass.
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On October 22 2011 11:06 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 11:04 The KY wrote:On October 22 2011 11:03 sc2holar wrote:On October 22 2011 10:58 awesomoecalypse wrote:
I really don't get the Oracle hate. No, it can't kill workers. Who gives a shit, if it can still cause massive economic damage, and force your opponent to pull lots of army units back to defend? Thats what harassment is. Killing workers is one way to do it, but making them useless is another. The Oracle can take tech trees out of commission, it can shut down static defense, and it can shut down an entire mineral line for 45 seconds with one shot. Its fast as hell too. And shutting down static defense synergizes awesomely with Phoenixes, as a spore or turret is no longer enough to utterly nullify Phoenix harass. And it is a get in, get out unit--it doesn't need to stick around while it kills lifted units, or charge up attacks. You fly in, get a shot off and fly out without taking damage, and you've done serious econ damage.
Yes, its expensive. Thats the nature of Protoss. if you want cheap shit, play T or Z. Protoss get extremely expensive, specialized units that are awesome at a given role, and the Oracle looks to be pretty damn awesome at harassment.
If anything, the Oracle looks like it could be too powerful. But frankly, Stargate could use some potent options. i think the problem is that its going to be very hard to balance. its either going to last for like 30-40 seconds and be potentially OP, or its just going to wear off after 10 seconds and not be worth the investment. It's destructible isn't it? yeah, wich is probably going to make it UP in the early mid game when most players keep their troops at their base anyways. Kill 20 workers and put the out of play for the rest of the gameOR Prevent 20 workers from mining for a limited (probably short) amount of time.its not hard to spot wich one is better.
If it's UP early mid game, don't use it. Like, drops are pretty ineffective when your opponent is on one or two bases, they're still good later.
I think it might be specifically to give an option to fuck over the whole late game mass mule thing.
It makes sense right? Mules are temporary, so any time they are not mining is them being wasted. Late game he calls down 20 mules and you block all his mins, he's just wasted a lot of OC energy that it'll take him a long time to regain.
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i think the problem is that its going to be very hard to balance. its either going to last for like 30-40 seconds and be potentially OP, or its just going to wear off after 10 seconds and not be worth the investment. You know, preventing 20 workers from mining for 10-20 seconds is not as good as KILLING 20 workers and, you know, preventing those from mining for the rest of the game.
I don't think it will be that hard to balance really. If you don't keep army units around to bring down the entombment quickly, it will last for a long time and wreck your economy, just as a drop would if you didn't keep units around to deal with it. If you do keep a small force around though, you can focus it down, and then the economic damage is minimal.
Its archetypal harass really in the choice it creates--keep forces in your base and be assured your economy is safe, or roll out with everything and run the risk of taking serious econ damage.
And its true, shutting down 20 workers isn't as good as killing them. But the Oracle can fly in and out and hit repeatedly, and shutting down those workers only costs energy each time. Whereas Hellions can cause huge damage, but will likely be killed in the process, making it much more of a onetime thing. And Hellions don't fly, requiring either drop support, or a screwup by your opponent letting them into your base.
Ultimately, they're different styles of harass, which is good because the races *should* be different. My point is though, that simply saying "Oracles dont kill shit, therefore they're useless" is dumb. The set of abilities they're giving them has the potential to be hugely powerful, if anything.
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toss player here, and I can't see how others would approve of mass recall spell on a nexus haha.
sounds too good to be true, will have to see it to believe.
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protoss get gimmicky shit, while terran gets area control and battle hellion..
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On October 22 2011 11:07 lariat wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 11:06 dukethegold wrote:
The plot doesn't make sense.
If Kerrigan wanted revenge, she could have chopped off Mengsk's head when she won the Brood War. She allowed Mengsk to escape so he would live the rest of his life in nightmare, in the shadow of the monster he created. Raynor also promised to kill Kerrigan the next time they met, but Blizzard isn't big into the continuity aspect of lore.
Well the whole him not killing her made sense because he was warned that it would be a very bad idea to do so.
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What's the tech tree to the viper? Also, can the viper grant detection to itself or is it already a detector?
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Cool, I like the new destructible rocks thing, adds more possibilities :3
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Oracle costs 200 fucking gas, and can block ONE (1) mineral patch per cast
Thats not true though. Entombment shuts down the entire mineral line. You don't individually target patches, you place something near the line that shuts down all the patches.
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On October 22 2011 11:09 yotis wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 11:06 sc2holar wrote:On October 22 2011 11:04 The KY wrote:On October 22 2011 11:03 sc2holar wrote:On October 22 2011 10:58 awesomoecalypse wrote:
I really don't get the Oracle hate. No, it can't kill workers. Who gives a shit, if it can still cause massive economic damage, and force your opponent to pull lots of army units back to defend? Thats what harassment is. Killing workers is one way to do it, but making them useless is another. The Oracle can take tech trees out of commission, it can shut down static defense, and it can shut down an entire mineral line for 45 seconds with one shot. Its fast as hell too. And shutting down static defense synergizes awesomely with Phoenixes, as a spore or turret is no longer enough to utterly nullify Phoenix harass. And it is a get in, get out unit--it doesn't need to stick around while it kills lifted units, or charge up attacks. You fly in, get a shot off and fly out without taking damage, and you've done serious econ damage.
Yes, its expensive. Thats the nature of Protoss. if you want cheap shit, play T or Z. Protoss get extremely expensive, specialized units that are awesome at a given role, and the Oracle looks to be pretty damn awesome at harassment.
If anything, the Oracle looks like it could be too powerful. But frankly, Stargate could use some potent options. i think the problem is that its going to be very hard to balance. its either going to last for like 30-40 seconds and be potentially OP, or its just going to wear off after 10 seconds and not be worth the investment. It's destructible isn't it? yeah, wich is probably going to make it UP in the early mid game when most players keep their troops at their base anyways. Kill 20 workers and put the out of play for the rest of the gameOR Prevent 20 workers from mining for a limited (probably short) amount of time.its not hard to spot wich one is better. Well you can always attack natural and block patches in main
Id rather attack natural and drop 2 hellions in main...
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Presumably, viper is 200/200? and is available directly after lair. Reading the description of the viper's detection granting skill indicates that it does start off with detection.
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On October 22 2011 11:11 justsayinbro wrote:
toss player here, and I can't see how others would approve of mass recall spell on a nexus haha.
sounds too good to be true, will have to see it to believe.
yea, first time I heard about this, I was like even if it costs 200 energy it's OP. And it costs 75 WTF no way it will last for long ...
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I agree with people saying the Oracle should get detection. This was their chance to fix that and give detection to a Stargate unit but nooo. QQ
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On October 22 2011 11:03 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 10:58 awesomoecalypse wrote:
I really don't get the Oracle hate. No, it can't kill workers. Who gives a shit, if it can still cause massive economic damage, and force your opponent to pull lots of army units back to defend? Thats what harassment is. Killing workers is one way to do it, but making them useless is another. The Oracle can take tech trees out of commission, it can shut down static defense, and it can shut down an entire mineral line for 45 seconds with one shot. Its fast as hell too. And shutting down static defense synergizes awesomely with Phoenixes, as a spore or turret is no longer enough to utterly nullify Phoenix harass. And it is a get in, get out unit--it doesn't need to stick around while it kills lifted units, or charge up attacks. You fly in, get a shot off and fly out without taking damage, and you've done serious econ damage.
Yes, its expensive. Thats the nature of Protoss. if you want cheap shit, play T or Z. Protoss get extremely expensive, specialized units that are awesome at a given role, and the Oracle looks to be pretty damn awesome at harassment.
If anything, the Oracle looks like it could be too powerful. But frankly, Stargate could use some potent options. i think the problem is that its going to be very hard to balance. its either going to last for like 30-40 seconds and be potentially OP, or its just going to wear off after 10 seconds and not be worth the investment. You know, preventing 20 workers from mining for 10-20 seconds is not as good as KILLING 20 workers and, you know, preventing those from mining for the rest of the game.
You can attack the shields to remove them. They are not FF, they can be removed.
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On October 22 2011 11:12 awesomoecalypse wrote:Thats not true though. Entombment shuts down the entire mineral line. You don't individually target patches, you place something near the line that shuts down all the patches.
Please don't post missinformation, entombment targets mineral patches individually.
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On October 22 2011 11:12 justBunneh wrote:
Cool, I like the new destructible rocks thing, adds more possibilities :3
Oh god I forgot about that. I literally can't believe that after all the Dustin Browder/destructible rocks jokes, they're actually adding another type of rocks.
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On October 22 2011 11:13 yotis wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 11:11 justsayinbro wrote:
toss player here, and I can't see how others would approve of mass recall spell on a nexus haha.
sounds too good to be true, will have to see it to believe. yea, first time I heard about this, I was like even if it costs 200 energy it's OP. And it costs 75 WTF no way it will last for long ...
It wouldn't be OP if it costed 200 energy, as a nexus can't even go that high....  I do think that they will change the cost to 100 energy, though; 75 seems too low for such a potentially game-changing spell.
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On October 22 2011 11:02 moskonia wrote:ok all, imagination time! think of a late game situation, terran has 3bases with OC's, he is now taking the gold, he moves 18 workers there and spamms all his mules, he knows he will get insane income and he laughs, but whats this? his income is so low! why? mineral block! just think if of the game situations, the game will be so more interesting 
and then, the planetary fortress shoots 3 times and all minerals are able to mine again.
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On October 22 2011 11:06 dukethegold wrote:
The plot doesn't make sense.
If Kerrigan wanted revenge, she could have chopped off Mengsk's head when she won the Brood War. She allowed Mengsk to escape so he would live the rest of his life in nightmare, in the shadow of the monster he created.
To my memory of the HotS info, this Kerrigan is amnesiactic. That and, she more like a human and inclined to seek revenge.
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On October 22 2011 07:05 psteeleneg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 07:03 lowercase wrote:
I don't think anyone's commented on this yet, so I'll mention it here:
Thors are gonna be pretty damn OP with repair.
It's going to be a mobile planetary fortress that can shoot air and ground. How is this not a terrible idea? They removed it's anti-air cannons and replaced it with the single-player ground aoe attack. Flock of mutas can take it down while the bounce kills the repairing scv's
Until you realize they added goliaths back to the game with AOE air dmg... 
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EPT
