EPTNew Zerg Unit in Heart of The Swarm - Page 80
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
mister.bubbles
Canada171 Posts
| ||
|
Zinnwaldite
Norway1567 Posts
| ||
|
Wenz
Monaco1 Post
| ||
|
Orion_2kTC
United States80 Posts
| ||
|
sopporku
13 Posts
On October 12 2011 03:18 Arisen wrote: I'm still saying if this thing is a long range seige unit, that isn't zerg at all, and that's what this looks like. I would love a lurker, because that fits with zerg. You close in with the lurkers and trap them in with lings. It makes sense. If you can just sit back on top of these things and prevent them from killing it while it kills everything...that's terran; not zerg. I agree. brood war. Terran = middle of the road for supply/units 1:2 ratio to zerg. pretty low mobility, but lots of long range to make up for that Protoss = most supply/units 1:3-4 ratio to zergs. even with those ratios its an even fight. slightly more mobile than terran, high damage for each individual unit but less units overall. zerg = least supply/units. builds at a 2;1 ratio to terran and 3-4:1 to protoss. most mobile race. REQUIRES lots of units to spread out the damage. zerg units all have a very slowly rising level of survivability. SC2. Terran. most mobile harass race. countless harass options. has Transformer units because dustin browder watches too much movies and tries to bogart SC2 to being transformers or power rangers or whatever. Viking and now the new terran unit. tanks with "smart"fire and such made tanks do LOL damage when they had as much damage as back in brood war. their damage actually had to get NERFED to below brood war standards, even though DPS has risen overall in sc2. Protoss. kept up with their mobility, given insane map unit production calls with proxy pylons for warpgates. chrono zealots = 10 second build time compared to 2 zerglings requiring 24. Zerg. like terran, given a "tank" unit, roach compared to marauder. Zerg roach is too strong. so roach is cut in half by 2 supply instead of being 1 supply it originally was in beta. Now zerg has half the forces. So much DPS on the field from smart fire tanks and colossus means that for a ground army, unlike brood war, there is no option for ling/hydra. its either ling festor and hope to catch his army as smaller, or corruptor roach, because only mass roach can take the damage of colossus centric armies with ground based support. and you cant buy roaches and hydra and still have supply left over for other units like you could when roaches were 1 supply. also, don't say that you need mass brood lords or ultra with corruptor roach. that shit is too expensive to get even if you're 6 base to protoss 3 base. the only way to get that is if protoss sits on his ass and lets you. oh yeah, and then hydras move slow as shit. and then hydras cost 2 supply when air units have received huge DPS buffs over brood war air units. compare banshee to wraith. lol. 8 damage on ground with moderately slow fire rate vs 24 damage with high fire rate. VRs with charge kiting spores is another matter altogether (you kite spores by forcing uproots, attacking it some as it roots, then moving to kill other building, so shut it). so zerg = less swarmy, slower, and less AA viability (as opposed to 1 supply hydras from brood war). its like Dustin Browder is to Starcraft 2 what George Lucas is to the new Star Wars and the Star Wars series. only die hard fan boys are not vomiting in rage at this travesty of a "competitve game". look at the formula. They gave a 'tank" unit to each race, immortal, roach, marauder. Just like WoW. Its becoming formulaic. blizzard hasn't had a single original idea since the end of brood war. | ||
|
Kuja
United States1759 Posts
| ||
|
NeonFox
2373 Posts
On October 12 2011 04:43 synapse wrote: They screwed over baneling drops, everything drops at the edges now  It was proved to be wrong, I use baneling drops in ZvP and it works like before the patch, try it  | ||
|
anobi
Finland17 Posts
| ||
|
NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
Terran = middle of the road for supply/units 1:2 ratio to zerg. pretty low mobility, but lots of long range to make up for that Unless you are, you know, doing something other than Mech (heresy, I know). In which case you have plenty of mobility. Protoss = most supply/units 1:3-4 ratio to zergs. even with those ratios its an even fight. slightly more mobile than terran, high damage for each individual unit but less units overall. Most SC1 Protoss units actually don't have very high damage outputs. They have large numbers (16, 20), but they fire quite slowly. Per unit costs, their DPS is lower than Zerg or Terran. They survive because, per unit costs, their units have more Hp, and thus can survive longer to deal that damage. The Zealot has a total of 160 Hp. The equivalent cost of Marines Hp is... 80. Of Zerglings, it's 140. has Transformer units because dustin browder watches too much movies and tries to bogart SC2 to being transformers or power rangers or whatever. What is a Siege Tank if not a Transformer? The damn thing even says, "Transform and roll out." All SC2 did was give them a second one. so zerg = less swarmy, slower, and less AA viability (as opposed to 1 supply hydras from brood war). Hurray for Zerg QQ. It only took 80 pages for that to show up. | ||
|
ntvarify
United States331 Posts
On October 12 2011 04:55 Zinnwaldite wrote: Maybe it's a King,, to complement the Queen.. Haha this made me lol so hard. Anyway, personally I think its a tanky type unit based on its big head but thats just me. | ||
|
Kinshuk
India116 Posts
On October 12 2011 05:29 NicolBolas wrote: Unless you are, you know, doing something other than Mech (heresy, I know). In which case you have plenty of mobility. Most SC1 Protoss units actually don't have very high damage outputs. They have large numbers (16, 20), but they fire quite slowly. Per unit costs, their DPS is lower than Zerg or Terran. They survive because, per unit costs, their units have more Hp, and thus can survive longer to deal that damage. The Zealot has a total of 160 Hp. The equivalent cost of Marines Hp is... 80. Of Zerglings, it's 140. What is a Siege Tank if not a Transformer? The damn thing even says, "Transform and roll out." All SC2 did was give them a second one. Hurray for Zerg QQ. It only took 80 pages for that to show up. Yet what he says is true so I'm not sure what you're getting at here | ||
|
Sandro
897 Posts
On October 12 2011 05:35 Kinshuk wrote: Yet what he says is true so I'm not sure what you're getting at here I agree, we need to go back to Brood War units, limitations, controls, ai, ui and graphics. | ||
|
Lokian
United States699 Posts
how can i acknowledge how cool broodwar is if sc2 is not the same as broodwar. the siege zerg unit will make the game fun, and thats what should matter. i don't think sc2 has that much of unit roles overlapping as people might think. | ||
|
TheGlassface
United States612 Posts
On October 12 2011 05:43 Sandro wrote: I agree, we need to go back to Brood War units, limitations, controls, ai, ui and graphics. I like how the moment anyone starts to bring up the gameplay mechanics and units/abilities that made Brood War such an incredible game and would have efficient, strong usage in a newer version of said series they get slapped down immediately. No one said a damn thing about controls, AI, limitations or graphics. They brought up the point that static mobile defense was a great idea and obviously there were some things that were shoved out of the races that don't seem to make sense. When SC II was designed, you can see some things that were experiments and others that were direct analogues to ideas throughout RTS games in general. With over 13 years of RTS experience, it seems fucking absurd that there are such blatant glaring design flaws as this cropping up a year after an extensive beta test and more time than that with near daily tournaments. The sample size is here and Blizzard is simply ignoring it. When someone points out something, it isn't always a whine. Occasionally, it has merit. | ||
|
SojuTerran
Canada16 Posts
| ||
|
jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On October 12 2011 06:09 TheGlassface wrote: I like how the moment anyone starts to bring up the gameplay mechanics and units/abilities that made Brood War such an incredible game and would have efficient, strong usage in a newer version of said series they get slapped down immediately. No one said a damn thing about controls, AI, limitations or graphics. They brought up the point that static mobile defense was a great idea and obviously there were some things that were shoved out of the races that don't seem to make sense. When SC II was designed, you can see some things that were experiments and others that were direct analogues to ideas throughout RTS games in general. With over 13 years of RTS experience, it seems fucking absurd that there are such blatant glaring design flaws as this cropping up a year after an extensive beta test and more time than that with near daily tournaments. The sample size is here and Blizzard is simply ignoring it. When someone points out something, it isn't always a whine. Occasionally, it has merit. well put it made my eyes watery T.T something is wrong and i seriously hope hots will fix many of them. seriously guys, all we have to do is look at mothership and see what is wrong with sc2. (ignoring what is bad for the whole sake of "awesomeness") | ||
|
Lokian
United States699 Posts
the competitive scene is working, the casual scene is working, the game is working. give credit where credit is due. | ||
|
Tewks44
United States2032 Posts
| ||
|
TheGlassface
United States612 Posts
On October 12 2011 06:17 Lokian wrote: hey before people start comparing sc2 with broodwar whenever something about sc2 changes, u gotta think that sc2 is a different game that can't be compared directly like how everyone is trying to do. i know broodwar is the only thing to look at when comparing/criticizing sc2, but hey, there are some things that are incomparable. the competitive scene is working, the casual scene is working, the game is working. give credit where credit is due. A different game in the exact same genre with units leftover from the original. In addition, aside from pathing/graphics changes, there are still a great deal of mechanics that caryy over as well. I never said it was the only thing to compare, that would be silly. Browder worked on CnC and he pulled units and ideas from there as well. Trying to say they're incomparable is asinine though, as the obvious parallels are there and acting like there aren't is just an attempt to shut down any criticism. Again, if it were just BW --> SCII, that would be one thing. It's not. It's a slew of different games from the RTS genre made by hundreds of companies and design teams over more than a decade. It's also pro players from all over the world inputting various feedback via in game stats, tournament results or their voice. And if the scene is all good and kosher as you say, Protoss results wouldn't be the way they were. There also wouldn't be scores of people saying, "Wait for the next expansion! That'll fix the issues...if not, wait until the next one!" I'm giving credit. Credit for a series of flaws that could and *should* have been addressed, long before now. I'm fine with balancing, I'm fine with changes, I'm great for expansions. These are all fine. I can also still point out things that have been pointed out by endless users and posters from all over. | ||
|
LetoAtreides82
United States1188 Posts
| ||
| ||
