• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:57
CEST 15:57
KST 22:57
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202536RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams4Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread RSL Season 1 - Final Week The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
ASL20 Preliminary Maps BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 872 users

Stephano contract situation - Page 27

Forum Index > SC2 General
3152 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 25 26 27 28 29 158 Next
Lack of content, flaming (of the French or anyone) and useless posts will be punished. Please keep it from being too inflammatory and keep discussion on-topic. -semioldguy (p.103)

Update: Please read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=267506#1 and continue the discussion there.
drag_
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
England425 Posts
September 19 2011 19:13 GMT
#521
Sigh, come on. I know this is "ESPORTS" and we must be super professional lawyer folk who do everything professionally to better the name of "ESPORTS", but this to me is taking it a little far. We're talking about an 18 year old kid whose probably never had to sign any contract let alone one that would have such ramifications. Yes, he signed the damn contract, but not even a full 2 days later he thinks he made a mistake - childish? Yes. Irresponsible? Yes. Illegal? Probably. However, I implore Complexity and Millenium to take this out of the public domain, have a talk between all three groups where they can come to a situation which is acceptable to everyone. I'm all for the "professionalisation" of Esports, but let's not lose touch of what really matters and make someone suffer for our own motives.
Jinivus
Profile Joined July 2011
747 Posts
September 19 2011 19:13 GMT
#522
On September 20 2011 04:12 clusen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 04:09 djfoxmccloud wrote:
If you sign a contract, you still have some time to reverse your mind in France.

Additionally to that:

Why are so many people convinced of the fact that the contract is indeed legally binding when it comes to legal action? Because it has "contract" written on it?


...If not then what's the point of a freaking contract?
JKira
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada1002 Posts
September 19 2011 19:13 GMT
#523
On September 20 2011 04:12 clusen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 04:09 djfoxmccloud wrote:
If you sign a contract, you still have some time to reverse your mind in France.

Additionally to that:

Why are so many people convinced of the fact that the contract is indeed legally binding when it comes to legal action? Because it has "contract" written on it?



...Yes?
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
September 19 2011 19:13 GMT
#524
On September 20 2011 04:05 Medrea wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 04:04 Boblion wrote:
I love when people talk about suing and compensations when they have no clue about Law ( let alone French Law ).


Complexity is USA.

Won't really help since Millenium and Stephano are French. I mean if it was a problem between EG and coL regarding an American player i could understand but this is a completly different problem.
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
zimz
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States510 Posts
September 19 2011 19:13 GMT
#525
On September 20 2011 04:09 djfoxmccloud wrote:
If you sign a contract, you still have some time to reverse your mind in France.

in this case, since stephano is french citizen and in France, i don't think col can do anything
zimz
carloselcoco
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2302 Posts
September 19 2011 19:13 GMT
#526
Can we get an admin moderating this thread please :/ I want to read a discussion, not a troll fest between players
http://www.twitch.tv/carloselcoco/b/296431601 <------Suscribe! Casts in Spanish :) |||| http://www.twitch.tv/carloselcoco/b/300285215<----- CSL: Before Sunday! Episode 3!
ShallNoiseUpon
Profile Joined August 2010
United States311 Posts
September 19 2011 19:14 GMT
#527
Can we get a liquibet of where Stephano will end up?
munchmunch
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada789 Posts
September 19 2011 19:14 GMT
#528
On September 20 2011 04:05 Medrea wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 04:04 Boblion wrote:
I love when people talk about suing and compensations when they have no clue about Law ( let alone French Law ).


Complexity is USA.

IANAL, but from what I understand it is pretty difficult to sue in the US and then get the judgement enforced abroad. Basically, they'd have to get a judgement for damages from an American court, take it to a French court, and get them to agree to enforce it. One thing the French court would consider is whether or not the American court actually had jurisdiction. A quick google search reveals that French courts have a rule called "exclusive jurisdiction", which holds that only French courts have jurisdiction over French nationals, unless the national waives this right. So from the sounds of it, complexity would have to sue in France to have any chance of enforcing a judgement.
Hundisilm
Profile Joined July 2011
Estonia99 Posts
September 19 2011 19:14 GMT
#529
I would hazard a guess that in the European Union a person (or a gamer) has a right to withdraw from an employment contract for at least a couple of weeks. I don't know the nature of the contract so this might not apply here, but I still doubt there is any legal argument to be made here (the statement from Complexity seems a bit in bad taste in that regard to be honest).

Either way, I don't think anyone should really be much more than sad or disappointed on Complexities side. I also don't think it's a particularly good example of contracts not being taken seriously (bad Chill, your comment was a tad childish in my opinion). If you want contracts to be taken seriously they need to be constructed seriously (from what I've heard the contracts aren't generally very well written yet) and treated seriously as well. Making empty threats about legal actions and their (contracts) binding nature isn't helping anyone take them seriously (the whole point of the existance of the contract is moot I would say - if the contract had been valid for a month or two, this would be different).

And what's up with signing players without talking to their teams first. I vaguely remember some sorta outrage about some team just talking to a player about recruitment a while back, now it's ok to sign them?
Perfect
Profile Joined August 2010
United States322 Posts
September 19 2011 19:15 GMT
#530
This will not be the first or last time we hear something like this. IMO we all need to just sit back chill out and see what happens. Just like the whole Lebron James thing, who cares, let them all fight it out and hope that we get some good games out of it.
darmousseh
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3437 Posts
September 19 2011 19:15 GMT
#531
On September 20 2011 04:12 Medrea wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 04:12 darmousseh wrote:
On September 20 2011 04:09 djfoxmccloud wrote:
If you sign a contract, you still have some time to reverse your mind in France.



How long typically? If this is the case, complexity was probably unaware of the french rules.


Good thing it's a US contract.


But he is not a citizen of the united states. I don't see how they could enforce the laws in the US. It would be handled by an international court I think and they would take into consideration france's typical contract voidance laws.
Developer for http://mtgfiddle.com
zYwi3c
Profile Joined November 2010
Poland1811 Posts
September 19 2011 19:15 GMT
#532
ffs, cant wait for SoTG, Lo3 and other shit ;D
I'm getting the derection.
Lorch
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany3682 Posts
September 19 2011 19:15 GMT
#533
Honestly given what col has done in the past I don't buy their part of the story either, but from what mil is said I don't think we have the full truth here. SOTG/ITG/LO3 should be really, really, interesting this week,
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-19 19:16:09
September 19 2011 19:15 GMT
#534
On September 20 2011 04:12 Uhh Negative wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 04:09 djfoxmccloud wrote:
If you sign a contract, you still have some time to reverse your mind in France.

Wait... are you serious? The funny thing is, I kind of believe France would do something like that. That totally distorts the whole purpose of a contract. The time to think is before you sign.


I can't see what's wrong with the French way here at all.

If you agreed to something before you signed, then obviously there's no reason to disagree and dislike something about it a few days later... or is there?

A LOT of things can be put on paper and written in words in misleading ways, and it happens all the time.

Having an option to change your mind a few days later ensures that the contract was made with honest intent rather than just rushing to get a signature and relying on law to enforce it.
Juanald
Profile Joined February 2011
United States354 Posts
September 19 2011 19:15 GMT
#535
On September 20 2011 04:09 Necrologica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 03:10 Juanald wrote:
its realy just a clash of culture americans have always been very big on our word and honor, koreans of course are about honor as well so we assume everyone shares the same values

youve got to be kidding, troll much?


wow.. no need to insult me buddy if you take the time to read the thread instead of singling me out youll notice half the posts defending him not honoring his contract are because hes french and the french dont believe your word is your bond like we do here in america... i think a lot of us take our honor for granted.
"hey it could happen!" ~ angels n the outfield
LordJerith
Profile Joined May 2011
United States92 Posts
September 19 2011 19:15 GMT
#536
On September 20 2011 04:06 Deleuzebwo wrote:
http://www.vvv-gaming.com/forum/topic/46628-losers-bracket-round-48/


Jerith posted this upthread, but I'm going to repost because it is decently illuminating. Sounds like the contract that Titan signed was shoddy - seems like they took an old contract and re-worked it for Titan, thus making it oddly worded and potentially not valid. That doesn't mean Stephano's was similarly shoddy, but who knows.

The lawyer also says that it would be near impossible to enforce a contract with a European party - arbitration might be possible but yeah.

Of course Jerith himself doesn't seem to be too into contracts. Keep in mind, contracts can help players as well. I'm not sure if vvv's players are contracted, but the recent kerfluffle over their not providing travel money to their players after (what they perceived as) poor performances at MLG shows that a naive ideology of "brotherhood" doesn't cut it either.


1) I'm not keen on contracts that cost more money to enforce than they are worth.
2) We don't have a naive ideology of "brotherhood." No idea where you get that from.
3) We do provide full travel to Murder, Titan, Ruff and Hasuu

Would appreciate you got your facts straights before making uninformed comments.
MasterReY
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Germany2708 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-19 19:18:36
September 19 2011 19:15 GMT
#537
I dont really understand all the people in this thread saying this is a good thing what stephano did and their respect for him went up.
How he has the loyality to stay in his old team and so on.....

I mean the was presented with a CONTRACT and he is EIGHTEEN years old. The only one to blame in his whole situation is definately stephano himself for behaving immature and making decisions prematurely and trying to revert them after its not really possible anymore. Also this whole story just shows how he is NOT loyal to his team but getting easily convinced to something without much thinking. I even think he still doesnt know what he wants and just got quickly convinced AGAIN after a short talk to rejoin Millenium again. Looks like he can never be loyal to any team or even be confident with his decisions if he changes his mind THAT quickly.

Of course Millenium didnt act well either, if they knew there is a legally binding contract with complexity.



EDIT: And to the guys saying he cant speak english that well so complexity might misinformed him etc. :

You DO NOT sign a contract you cant read.........its ridiculous.
If his english is really that bad then its his task to make sure he understands what he is doing by getting a trusted person to translate everything for him before you just blindly sign a contract.
https://www.twitch.tv/MasterReY/ ~ Biggest Reach fan on TL.net (Don't even dare to mention LR now) ~ R.I.P Violet ~ Developer of SCRChart
TL+ Member
Vul
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States685 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-19 19:17:11
September 19 2011 19:15 GMT
#538
On September 20 2011 04:09 Fionn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 04:04 Medrea wrote:
On September 20 2011 04:03 WArped wrote:
On September 20 2011 03:58 Jinivus wrote:
On September 20 2011 03:56 Vul wrote:
I think part of the problem is that Stephano does not speak English, iirc. It is easy to see how he could be misinformed or confused, given that.

What is clear is that he signed with complexity for some reason and then got cold feet. Who knows why he didn't end up wanting to honor his contract with coL, it could just be guilt/loyalty to a French team.

But I'm not sure if he even knows that this has gone public yet, because I doubt he reads this forum or coL's website (again, probably not reading English websites).

He may be under the impression that it is okay for him to back out of the contract (since Millenium is probably telling him that it is alright and what he should do, etc.). If that's the case, he probably didn't know until after he backed out from signing with complexity that it would be a major shit storm.

Of course I am just conjecturing, but I'm conjecturing under what I think is a valid assumption. I think Millenium is looking out for Millenium and Complexity is looking out for Complexity. And in the middle you have Stephano who probably did not entirely understand the situation, or did not communicate properly with the right parties, probably because he doesn't speak English.

I think Naniwa was just joking about Stephano doing this for the money. But it's clear to me that a move this bad wouldn't be calculated. Bottom line is Stephano fucked up hard, but it really doesn't seem like it was on purpose. But really we just have to wait for more information before anything can be said for certain.

Why? I bet he's making more money than he was before.


Are you suggesting Stephano thought, "Hey how about I sign a contract with another team to blackmail my way into more money with Millenium"?

No.


Why not? Happens all the damn time. Well except for the signing part. he goofed up that part.


This. Sport players do this all the time. Work two teams at once and have them bidding on you. Sometimes even have someone "leak" info that one side is offering you more than they actually are to bump the price up.

Except they don't actually sign a contract, change their mind, and allowed to the other team. Usually when this happens a player gets traded or bought out. Since I don't think you're allowed to trade a player (right?), Millenium would have to pony up money to buy out the contract to keep Stephano.

Stephano is at the height of his popularity at the second. He just went through the IPL and beat some top Koreans to get there. He's getting a lot of hype and this was his best chance to cash it in.


If he were doing it on purpose he wouldn't have signed. You don't sign a contract in order to immediately sign a better contract. To me that is obvious

edit: What I mean is that it's obvious he wasn't trying to raise the price on his contract because he literally signed one without hearing more counter offers from Millenium.
RinconH
Profile Joined April 2010
United States512 Posts
September 19 2011 19:15 GMT
#539
lol there isn't going to be "legal" action.

The cost of litigating it is probably 10x what the guys contract is worth.
havox_
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany442 Posts
September 19 2011 19:16 GMT
#540
On September 20 2011 04:05 relic wrote:
Complexity in contract / player signings upset? What a surprise!

This has been going on for years in coL, through 1.6 - source - WoW - and every other game they have supported. You'll hear a lot coming out of Jason, but within weeks I can guarantee they will be silenced when the truth comes out. It's happened before (many times) and will happen again. Complexity is a very poor example of a eSports organisation.

yes, youre right - BUT: In their news not even Mill claims that there was no real contract between Stephano and col...
What they wrote it sounds more like "they talked him into signing" - but thats actually not quite illegal...
Prev 1 25 26 27 28 29 158 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Esports World Cup
10:00
2025 - Day 2
Reynor vs MaruLIVE!
herO vs Cure
Serral vs Classic
EWC_Arena9313
ComeBackTV 2111
TaKeTV 549
Hui .478
3DClanTV 304
Rex219
EnkiAlexander 171
CranKy Ducklings168
mcanning122
Reynor118
UpATreeSC103
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
EWC_Arena9313
Hui .478
Rex 219
mcanning 122
Reynor 118
UpATreeSC 103
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 2830
Flash 2376
Jaedong 2031
Barracks 1974
BeSt 1667
EffOrt 1129
Mini 772
Stork 587
ggaemo 405
Soma 343
[ Show more ]
Snow 322
ZerO 271
Soulkey 270
GuemChi 237
ToSsGirL 206
Rush 129
Dewaltoss 119
Hyun 113
TY 63
soO 57
Sacsri 46
Sea.KH 39
sorry 36
JulyZerg 33
scan(afreeca) 30
Movie 13
Terrorterran 13
Bale 10
ivOry 10
Britney 0
Dota 2
Gorgc4669
XcaliburYe254
420jenkins245
syndereN213
Counter-Strike
sgares569
edward42
Super Smash Bros
Westballz37
Other Games
singsing2042
hiko1370
B2W.Neo979
crisheroes388
Fuzer 163
ArmadaUGS67
QueenE43
KnowMe24
ZerO(Twitch)19
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH299
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV577
League of Legends
• Nemesis3651
• TFBlade457
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
20h 3m
TBD vs Zoun
TBD vs SHIN
TBD vs ShoWTimE
TBD vs Rogue
Esports World Cup
1d 21h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
CSO Cup
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.