EPTStephano contract situation - Page 27
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Lack of content, flaming (of the French or anyone) and useless posts will be punished. Please keep it from being too inflammatory and keep discussion on-topic. -semioldguy (p.103) Update: Please read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=267506#1 and continue the discussion there. | ||
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drag_
England425 Posts
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Jinivus
747 Posts
On September 20 2011 04:12 clusen wrote: Additionally to that: Why are so many people convinced of the fact that the contract is indeed legally binding when it comes to legal action? Because it has "contract" written on it? ...If not then what's the point of a freaking contract? | ||
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JKira
Canada1002 Posts
On September 20 2011 04:12 clusen wrote: Additionally to that: Why are so many people convinced of the fact that the contract is indeed legally binding when it comes to legal action? Because it has "contract" written on it? ...Yes? | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
Won't really help since Millenium and Stephano are French. I mean if it was a problem between EG and coL regarding an American player i could understand but this is a completly different problem. | ||
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zimz
United States510 Posts
On September 20 2011 04:09 djfoxmccloud wrote: If you sign a contract, you still have some time to reverse your mind in France. in this case, since stephano is french citizen and in France, i don't think col can do anything | ||
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carloselcoco
United States2302 Posts
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ShallNoiseUpon
United States311 Posts
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munchmunch
Canada789 Posts
IANAL, but from what I understand it is pretty difficult to sue in the US and then get the judgement enforced abroad. Basically, they'd have to get a judgement for damages from an American court, take it to a French court, and get them to agree to enforce it. One thing the French court would consider is whether or not the American court actually had jurisdiction. A quick google search reveals that French courts have a rule called "exclusive jurisdiction", which holds that only French courts have jurisdiction over French nationals, unless the national waives this right. So from the sounds of it, complexity would have to sue in France to have any chance of enforcing a judgement. | ||
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Hundisilm
Estonia99 Posts
Either way, I don't think anyone should really be much more than sad or disappointed on Complexities side. I also don't think it's a particularly good example of contracts not being taken seriously (bad Chill, your comment was a tad childish in my opinion). If you want contracts to be taken seriously they need to be constructed seriously (from what I've heard the contracts aren't generally very well written yet) and treated seriously as well. Making empty threats about legal actions and their (contracts) binding nature isn't helping anyone take them seriously (the whole point of the existance of the contract is moot I would say - if the contract had been valid for a month or two, this would be different). And what's up with signing players without talking to their teams first. I vaguely remember some sorta outrage about some team just talking to a player about recruitment a while back, now it's ok to sign them? | ||
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Perfect
United States322 Posts
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
But he is not a citizen of the united states. I don't see how they could enforce the laws in the US. It would be handled by an international court I think and they would take into consideration france's typical contract voidance laws. | ||
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zYwi3c
Poland1811 Posts
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Lorch
Germany3667 Posts
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On September 20 2011 04:12 Uhh Negative wrote: Wait... are you serious? The funny thing is, I kind of believe France would do something like that. That totally distorts the whole purpose of a contract. The time to think is before you sign. I can't see what's wrong with the French way here at all. If you agreed to something before you signed, then obviously there's no reason to disagree and dislike something about it a few days later... or is there? A LOT of things can be put on paper and written in words in misleading ways, and it happens all the time. Having an option to change your mind a few days later ensures that the contract was made with honest intent rather than just rushing to get a signature and relying on law to enforce it. | ||
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Juanald
United States354 Posts
On September 20 2011 04:09 Necrologica wrote: youve got to be kidding, troll much? wow.. no need to insult me buddy if you take the time to read the thread instead of singling me out youll notice half the posts defending him not honoring his contract are because hes french and the french dont believe your word is your bond like we do here in america... i think a lot of us take our honor for granted. | ||
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LordJerith
United States92 Posts
On September 20 2011 04:06 Deleuzebwo wrote: http://www.vvv-gaming.com/forum/topic/46628-losers-bracket-round-48/ Jerith posted this upthread, but I'm going to repost because it is decently illuminating. Sounds like the contract that Titan signed was shoddy - seems like they took an old contract and re-worked it for Titan, thus making it oddly worded and potentially not valid. That doesn't mean Stephano's was similarly shoddy, but who knows. The lawyer also says that it would be near impossible to enforce a contract with a European party - arbitration might be possible but yeah. Of course Jerith himself doesn't seem to be too into contracts. Keep in mind, contracts can help players as well. I'm not sure if vvv's players are contracted, but the recent kerfluffle over their not providing travel money to their players after (what they perceived as) poor performances at MLG shows that a naive ideology of "brotherhood" doesn't cut it either. 1) I'm not keen on contracts that cost more money to enforce than they are worth. 2) We don't have a naive ideology of "brotherhood." No idea where you get that from. 3) We do provide full travel to Murder, Titan, Ruff and Hasuu Would appreciate you got your facts straights before making uninformed comments. | ||
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MasterReY
Germany2708 Posts
How he has the loyality to stay in his old team and so on..... I mean the was presented with a CONTRACT and he is EIGHTEEN years old. The only one to blame in his whole situation is definately stephano himself for behaving immature and making decisions prematurely and trying to revert them after its not really possible anymore. Also this whole story just shows how he is NOT loyal to his team but getting easily convinced to something without much thinking. I even think he still doesnt know what he wants and just got quickly convinced AGAIN after a short talk to rejoin Millenium again. Looks like he can never be loyal to any team or even be confident with his decisions if he changes his mind THAT quickly. Of course Millenium didnt act well either, if they knew there is a legally binding contract with complexity. EDIT: And to the guys saying he cant speak english that well so complexity might misinformed him etc. : You DO NOT sign a contract you cant read.........its ridiculous. If his english is really that bad then its his task to make sure he understands what he is doing by getting a trusted person to translate everything for him before you just blindly sign a contract. | ||
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Vul
United States685 Posts
On September 20 2011 04:09 Fionn wrote: This. Sport players do this all the time. Work two teams at once and have them bidding on you. Sometimes even have someone "leak" info that one side is offering you more than they actually are to bump the price up. Except they don't actually sign a contract, change their mind, and allowed to the other team. Usually when this happens a player gets traded or bought out. Since I don't think you're allowed to trade a player (right?), Millenium would have to pony up money to buy out the contract to keep Stephano. Stephano is at the height of his popularity at the second. He just went through the IPL and beat some top Koreans to get there. He's getting a lot of hype and this was his best chance to cash it in. If he were doing it on purpose he wouldn't have signed. You don't sign a contract in order to immediately sign a better contract. To me that is obvious edit: What I mean is that it's obvious he wasn't trying to raise the price on his contract because he literally signed one without hearing more counter offers from Millenium. | ||
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RinconH
United States512 Posts
The cost of litigating it is probably 10x what the guys contract is worth. | ||
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havox_
Germany442 Posts
On September 20 2011 04:05 relic wrote: Complexity in contract / player signings upset? What a surprise! This has been going on for years in coL, through 1.6 - source - WoW - and every other game they have supported. You'll hear a lot coming out of Jason, but within weeks I can guarantee they will be silenced when the truth comes out. It's happened before (many times) and will happen again. Complexity is a very poor example of a eSports organisation. yes, youre right - BUT: In their news not even Mill claims that there was no real contract between Stephano and col... What they wrote it sounds more like "they talked him into signing" - but thats actually not quite illegal... | ||
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