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On September 20 2011 04:10 gullberg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 04:03 WArped wrote:On September 20 2011 03:58 Jinivus wrote:On September 20 2011 03:56 Vul wrote:
I think part of the problem is that Stephano does not speak English, iirc. It is easy to see how he could be misinformed or confused, given that.
What is clear is that he signed with complexity for some reason and then got cold feet. Who knows why he didn't end up wanting to honor his contract with coL, it could just be guilt/loyalty to a French team.
But I'm not sure if he even knows that this has gone public yet, because I doubt he reads this forum or coL's website (again, probably not reading English websites).
He may be under the impression that it is okay for him to back out of the contract (since Millenium is probably telling him that it is alright and what he should do, etc.). If that's the case, he probably didn't know until after he backed out from signing with complexity that it would be a major shit storm.
Of course I am just conjecturing, but I'm conjecturing under what I think is a valid assumption. I think Millenium is looking out for Millenium and Complexity is looking out for Complexity. And in the middle you have Stephano who probably did not entirely understand the situation, or did not communicate properly with the right parties, probably because he doesn't speak English.
I think Naniwa was just joking about Stephano doing this for the money. But it's clear to me that a move this bad wouldn't be calculated. Bottom line is Stephano fucked up hard, but it really doesn't seem like it was on purpose. But really we just have to wait for more information before anything can be said for certain. Why? I bet he's making more money than he was before. Are you suggesting Stephano thought, "Hey how about I sign a contract with another team to blackmail my way into more money with Millenium"? No. If I were to guess it'd be that yes. coL made an offer that Mill couldn't overcome and Stephano signs with coL, Mill decides to give in and make a big offer for Stephano. Stephano wants DAT MONEY and signs with Mill. Stephano will go where the money is.
Maybe you are right but I don't think the idea was to blackmail Mill in the first place which is what was suggested happened, Stephano wants to play and be supported for playing and competing. If Mill fucked up and offered too little to Stephano when he was in discussion with them and forced him to be approached by coL and signed for coL then it is too late. It just happened to be that Mill offered another contract to him after he signed for coL, Stephano couldn't of accounted for that. Of course the full details will be revealed soon I'm sure.
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Trouble brewing. Hopefully it all works out.
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On September 20 2011 04:18 Kuni wrote:
All those dramas really come up right before LO3, SotG and other shows ... maybe someone is paying them to create drama so that Wheat, JP and the others have something to talk about !
Which is a shame because I'd rather hear them talk about the positive stuff instead, like Dreamhack Valencia.
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On September 20 2011 04:18 TaktiDerBlonde wrote:
lol sounds like coL never talked to M+ orgas about transfer etc. In my opinion coL showed bad habits, recruiting a player behind the back of the former team.
hahah
american culture..big on honor..
If behind the back you mean right in front of them out in the open over a period of weeks, then yes behind the back.
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i was pretty interested in learning more about this player and watching him grow in col.....
now he is by far one of the players i respect the least...... im all about power to the player to make decisions regarding his own future and the betterment of his career, but once you sign an agreement and publicly anounce your plans....going back on your decision is the single most unprofessional thing you could possibly do. teams put a lot of work into providing for their players and deserve respect just like a player does. this does nothing but hurt teams, all teams....
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Seems kind of a strange thing to do on CoL's part, it is a contract but it's a big slap in the face to Millenium
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Sounds like teams should contact eachother before buying eachothers players, seems a bit shady as is.
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On September 20 2011 04:15 LordJerith wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 04:06 Deleuzebwo wrote:http://www.vvv-gaming.com/forum/topic/46628-losers-bracket-round-48/Jerith posted this upthread, but I'm going to repost because it is decently illuminating. Sounds like the contract that Titan signed was shoddy - seems like they took an old contract and re-worked it for Titan, thus making it oddly worded and potentially not valid. That doesn't mean Stephano's was similarly shoddy, but who knows. The lawyer also says that it would be near impossible to enforce a contract with a European party - arbitration might be possible but yeah. Of course Jerith himself doesn't seem to be too into contracts. Keep in mind, contracts can help players as well. I'm not sure if vvv's players are contracted, but the recent kerfluffle over their not providing travel money to their players after (what they perceived as) poor performances at MLG shows that a naive ideology of "brotherhood" doesn't cut it either. 1) I'm not keen on contracts that cost more money to enforce than they are worth. 2) We don't have a naive ideology of "brotherhood." No idea where you get that from. 3) We do provide full travel to Murder, Titan, Ruff and Hasuu Would appreciate you got your facts straights before making uninformed comments.
I stand by my reading on the brotherhood thing. However I did get the travel wrong, so I am sorry -
"We will now only be sponsoring Murder, Titan and Ruff. All other players will remain on the team, but not be sponsored. The team as it sits right now: Muder, Titan, Ruff, Ngry, Hasuu, Time and Xog"
Anyway, I won't drag that up again. If anyone is interested in that whole "controversy" (if you wish to see it that way) go re-read that thread.
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On September 20 2011 04:16 marttorn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 04:14 ShallNoiseUpon wrote:
Can we get a liquibet of where Stephano will end up? Screw that LIQUIBITION, CoL vs mill team match
Yep, I agree, well contracts and stuff is a serious business, but team match for a player would be damn awesome, anyway I personally hope everything cleans up nicely, we can't do much in this sort of situation.
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On September 20 2011 04:18 TaktiDerBlonde wrote:
lol sounds like coL never talked to M+ orgas about transfer etc. In my opinion coL showed bad habits, recruiting a player behind the back of the former team.
hahah
american culture..big on honor..
Not even close
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I'm interested how this will turn out, I'm happy for Stephano either way
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So ToD is able to walk in and out of Millenium as he pleases, but when Stephano gets yankeed all hell breaks loose?
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On September 20 2011 04:18 TaktiDerBlonde wrote:
lol sounds like coL never talked to M+ orgas about transfer etc. In my opinion coL showed bad habits, recruiting a player behind the back of the former team.
hahah
american culture..big on honor..
sounds like you didn't read the thread
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If this was in the US, I would fully support CoL, however, stephano is french and under jurisdiction of french law. It's very unfortunate that CoL was/is not aware of contract law in france, but considering the evidence (that people can void contracts in the EU in a certain time frame) it sounds like unless complexity makes a higher offer, no amount of legal action will do anything.
Sorry Complexity, stephano is staying with mill.
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On September 20 2011 04:13 Jinivus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 04:12 clusen wrote:On September 20 2011 04:09 djfoxmccloud wrote:
If you sign a contract, you still have some time to reverse your mind in France. Additionally to that: Why are so many people convinced of the fact that the contract is indeed legally binding when it comes to legal action? Because it has "contract" written on it? ...If not then what's the point of a freaking contract?
The point of a contract is always the same, the question is if the contract is valid. Have you herard of laws? Writing "contract" on a piece of paper does not make it a valid contract.
This situation is tricky with a French EU citizen and an American company, contract laws/employment laws are quite complex.
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On September 20 2011 04:20 bmml wrote:
Sounds like teams should contact eachother before buying eachothers players, seems a bit shady as is.
Seems like they were kind of in contact, since they were making counter offers for Stephano.
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Then: Complexity and Stephano negotiate a contract and sign it. Mill was aware of it, and had made counter offers which Complexity outbid. They convinced Stephano to finally sign.
Now: Stephano wants to stay with Mill, probably just made a mistake and exercised poor judgment (as young men sometimes do). Complexity is flexing their legal muscles (not just for compensation of their time, effort, and embarrassment but also to ensure that progaming contracts are considered legitimate and actually matter in the international E-Sports scene) and are somehow the bad guys for it.
I hate you TL.
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On September 20 2011 04:16 XRaDiiX wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 04:06 Deleuzebwo wrote:http://www.vvv-gaming.com/forum/topic/46628-losers-bracket-round-48/Jerith posted this upthread, but I'm going to repost because it is decently illuminating. Sounds like the contract that Titan signed was shoddy - seems like they took an old contract and re-worked it for Titan, thus making it oddly worded and potentially not valid. That doesn't mean Stephano's was similarly shoddy, but who knows. The lawyer also says that it would be near impossible to enforce a contract with a European party - arbitration might be possible but yeah. Of course Jerith himself doesn't seem to be too into contracts. Keep in mind, contracts can help players as well. I'm not sure if vvv's players are contracted, but the recent kerfluffle over their not providing travel money to their players after (what they perceived as) poor performances at MLG shows that a naive ideology of "brotherhood" doesn't cut it either. So they never said what team vVvTitan was possibly going to sign with... was it COL.? Because that in my books makes them look even more slimy. If it is COL? Like a sneaky snake...
Can you stop saying coL is slimy in every post? It's obvious trolling and pretty annoying TBH.
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On September 20 2011 04:18 TaktiDerBlonde wrote:
lol sounds like coL never talked to M+ orgas about transfer etc. In my opinion coL showed bad habits, recruiting a player behind the back of the former team.
hahah
american culture..big on honor..
Not at all.
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French law says you got 1 month grace period. and since hes in France and a french citizen during signing of contract, i don't see them awarding coL any compensation.
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EPT
