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Stephano contract situation - Page 28

Forum Index > SC2 General
3152 CommentsPost a Reply
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Lack of content, flaming (of the French or anyone) and useless posts will be punished. Please keep it from being too inflammatory and keep discussion on-topic. -semioldguy (p.103)

Update: Please read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=267506#1 and continue the discussion there.
vectorix108
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States4633 Posts
September 19 2011 19:16 GMT
#541
Weird. hope this gets sorted out.
Aka XephyR/Shaneyesss
tMomiji
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States1115 Posts
September 19 2011 19:16 GMT
#542
Oh no. Tell me this isn't the same situation as it was with Destiny and Complexity?!
"I wonder if there is a league below copper? If so, I would like to inhabit it." -TotalBiscuit "In the event of a sudden change in cabin pressure, ROOF FLIES OFF!" -George Carlin <3 HerO <3 Kiwikaki <3 MKP
setzer
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3284 Posts
September 19 2011 19:16 GMT
#543
I understand it is in the best interest of the player to take the best offer available to him, but I really feel for the smaller organizations to raise these players from nothing and support them (like teamliquid with huk), only to have them to go to "greener pastures." Losing a top player hurts the organization a lot more than the winner gaining that player. They already have massive capital, sponsorship, and they can certainly afford to take a loss here and there. In the long term these types of practices could force smaller organizations into reconsidering whether it is in their best interests investing into e-sports. It is a lose-lose.

I believe SC2 does need an organization like KeSPA to maybe arbitrate these type of deals, or at least set up some guidelines. IIRC under the rules set by KeSPA, if a team wanted t o buy out a player's contract, they would need to give twice the amount on the contract to the other team. That isn't an ideal solution, but I do feel there needs to be some form of protection for the small guys.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
September 19 2011 19:16 GMT
#544
So confused, I personally want Stephano on Mill. to be honest.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
1st_Panzer_Div.
Profile Joined November 2010
United States621 Posts
September 19 2011 19:16 GMT
#545
On September 20 2011 04:06 Full.tilt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 03:26 havox_ wrote:
On September 20 2011 03:17 tofubeans wrote:
Update:

Within the last hour Team Millennium announced that Stephano was remaining with their organization despite the fact he executed a legally binding contract with compLexity. We are extremely disappointed by this turn of events are are seeking more information while we evaluate our legal options with French counsel. By no means do we want a player who does not want to be part of our organization but we can not simply allow players and organizations to completely disrespect the legal contractual process that ensures stability in our evolving sport.


http://www.complexitygaming.com/news/3126/#

He did sign a contract.

ifthis is really true, i actually hope that he a) gets sued or b) at least will be banned from leagues =)
sounds harsh, but how else to let kids grow up? Do we want this to be a real, pro sport or not?


"How else to get kids grow up"? How about educate them better on the subject of professional teams and contracts. This way teams won't be able to poach players so easily.

Or get personal player agents, but who really wants them coming in and taking a slice of the pie?


Well if ESPORTS is becoming legitiment, every other sport out there has agents to help mitigate these issues, and there certainly has not been a lack of signing issues recently.
Manager, Team RIP ZeeZ
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
September 19 2011 19:16 GMT
#546
On September 20 2011 04:15 darmousseh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 04:12 Medrea wrote:
On September 20 2011 04:12 darmousseh wrote:
On September 20 2011 04:09 djfoxmccloud wrote:
If you sign a contract, you still have some time to reverse your mind in France.



How long typically? If this is the case, complexity was probably unaware of the french rules.


Good thing it's a US contract.


But he is not a citizen of the united states. I don't see how they could enforce the laws in the US. It would be handled by an international court I think and they would take into consideration france's typical contract voidance laws.


It is a civil lawsuit, not a federal one. BIG difference.
twitch.tv/medrea
marttorn
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Norway5211 Posts
September 19 2011 19:16 GMT
#547
On September 20 2011 04:14 ShallNoiseUpon wrote:
Can we get a liquibet of where Stephano will end up?


Screw that

LIQUIBITION, CoL vs mill team match
memes are a dish best served dank
Gevna
Profile Joined August 2010
France2332 Posts
September 19 2011 19:16 GMT
#548
On September 20 2011 04:07 Jinsho wrote:
Stop talking about things you have no idea about. On the TL forums literally whoever posts first is in the right, according to you guys.

Maybe complexity is lying. Maybe Millennium is. Maybe Stephano pussied out. How the hell would any of you know?

Can you all guys read this, and stop posting all this shit ?
I thought TSL's drama was enough to stop putting this kind of assertions while you were all shitting on coach Lee.

Wait and see.
XRaDiiX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada1730 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-19 19:16:51
September 19 2011 19:16 GMT
#549
On September 20 2011 04:06 Deleuzebwo wrote:
http://www.vvv-gaming.com/forum/topic/46628-losers-bracket-round-48/


Jerith posted this upthread, but I'm going to repost because it is decently illuminating. Sounds like the contract that Titan signed was shoddy - seems like they took an old contract and re-worked it for Titan, thus making it oddly worded and potentially not valid. That doesn't mean Stephano's was similarly shoddy, but who knows.

The lawyer also says that it would be near impossible to enforce a contract with a European party - arbitration might be possible but yeah.

Of course Jerith himself doesn't seem to be too into contracts. Keep in mind, contracts can help players as well. I'm not sure if vvv's players are contracted, but the recent kerfluffle over their not providing travel money to their players after (what they perceived as) poor performances at MLG shows that a naive ideology of "brotherhood" doesn't cut it either.


So they never said what team vVvTitan was possibly going to sign with... was it COL.? Because that in my books makes them look even more slimy. If it is COL?

Like a sneaky snake...
Never GG MKP | IdrA
mdb
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
Bulgaria4059 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-19 19:16:54
September 19 2011 19:16 GMT
#550
Seems to me, that sc2 urgently needs a regulating organization like KESPA to avoid such things from happening.
Vira
Profile Joined November 2010
573 Posts
September 19 2011 19:17 GMT
#551
On September 20 2011 04:16 marttorn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 04:14 ShallNoiseUpon wrote:
Can we get a liquibet of where Stephano will end up?


Screw that

LIQUIBITION, CoL vs mill team match


easy win for Millenium :/
gulati
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States2241 Posts
September 19 2011 19:17 GMT
#552
On September 20 2011 04:13 drag_ wrote:
Sigh, come on. I know this is "ESPORTS" and we must be super professional lawyer folk who do everything professionally to better the name of "ESPORTS", but this to me is taking it a little far. We're talking about an 18 year old kid whose probably never had to sign any contract let alone one that would have such ramifications. Yes, he signed the damn contract, but not even a full 2 days later he thinks he made a mistake - childish? Yes. Irresponsible? Yes. Illegal? Probably. However, I implore Complexity and Millenium to take this out of the public domain, have a talk between all three groups where they can come to a situation which is acceptable to everyone. I'm all for the "professionalisation" of Esports, but let's not lose touch of what really matters and make someone suffer for our own motives.


First of all: he is not a "kid". Second of all, it's about the legal precedent; this has occurred multiple times, and compLexity being a top-tier leader in professional gaming wants to set the example, and stop this shit from ever occurring again. They have my full support to sue Millennium and contact as many authorities as they want.

It is a GAME after all, but you DONT play games like this when it comes down to contracts.
C r u m b l i n g
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
September 19 2011 19:17 GMT
#553
On September 20 2011 04:16 mdb wrote:
Seems to me, that sc2 urgently needs a regulating organization like KESPA to avoid such things from happening.


Maybe someday, not today though.
twitch.tv/medrea
JohnnyBlaze420
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia814 Posts
September 19 2011 19:18 GMT
#554
On September 20 2011 04:15 Juanald wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 04:09 Necrologica wrote:
On September 20 2011 03:10 Juanald wrote:
its realy just a clash of culture americans have always been very big on our word and honor, koreans of course are about honor as well so we assume everyone shares the same values

youve got to be kidding, troll much?


wow.. no need to insult me buddy if you take the time to read the thread instead of singling me out youll notice half the posts defending him not honoring his contract are because hes french and the french dont believe your word is your bond like we do here in america... i think a lot of us take our honor for granted.

lol dude ive read pretty much the whole thread and no one has said anything like that.... in fact u were one of the first people to post in the thread.....
.lets get weird
Kuni
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Austria765 Posts
September 19 2011 19:18 GMT
#555
All those dramas really come up right before LO3, SotG and other shows ... maybe someone is paying them to create drama so that Wheat, JP and the others have something to talk about !
bonus vir semper tiro
gullberg
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Sweden1301 Posts
September 19 2011 19:18 GMT
#556
On September 20 2011 04:16 XRaDiiX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 04:06 Deleuzebwo wrote:
http://www.vvv-gaming.com/forum/topic/46628-losers-bracket-round-48/


Jerith posted this upthread, but I'm going to repost because it is decently illuminating. Sounds like the contract that Titan signed was shoddy - seems like they took an old contract and re-worked it for Titan, thus making it oddly worded and potentially not valid. That doesn't mean Stephano's was similarly shoddy, but who knows.

The lawyer also says that it would be near impossible to enforce a contract with a European party - arbitration might be possible but yeah.

Of course Jerith himself doesn't seem to be too into contracts. Keep in mind, contracts can help players as well. I'm not sure if vvv's players are contracted, but the recent kerfluffle over their not providing travel money to their players after (what they perceived as) poor performances at MLG shows that a naive ideology of "brotherhood" doesn't cut it either.


So they never said what team vVvTitan was possibly going to sign with... was it COL.? Because that in my books makes them look even more slimy. If it is COL?

Like a sneaky snake...

How someone could possibly blame coL in this situation is beyond me.
djfoxmccloud
Profile Joined July 2011
France185 Posts
September 19 2011 19:18 GMT
#557
On September 20 2011 04:12 darmousseh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 04:09 djfoxmccloud wrote:
If you sign a contract, you still have some time to reverse your mind in France.



How long typically? If this is the case, complexity was probably unaware of the french rules.


i don't kno about this kind of work. I'll talk about my work.

I signed a contract. It starts in October. Between now and October i can change my mind just by posting a letter.

Between October and 4 month from then, i can resign with a letter and a delay of a week.

After 4 month i must warn 2 months before leaving
Fionn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States23455 Posts
September 19 2011 19:18 GMT
#558
On September 20 2011 04:13 drag_ wrote:
Sigh, come on. I know this is "ESPORTS" and we must be super professional lawyer folk who do everything professionally to better the name of "ESPORTS", but this to me is taking it a little far. We're talking about an 18 year old kid whose probably never had to sign any contract let alone one that would have such ramifications. Yes, he signed the damn contract, but not even a full 2 days later he thinks he made a mistake - childish? Yes. Irresponsible? Yes. Illegal? Probably. However, I implore Complexity and Millenium to take this out of the public domain, have a talk between all three groups where they can come to a situation which is acceptable to everyone. I'm all for the "professionalisation" of Esports, but let's not lose touch of what really matters and make someone suffer for our own motives.


He's getting paid big money to play Starcraft 2. If he's forced to play with Complexity (he won't be), can he really cry about it? He's still going to get paid a lot. He would go to Orlando and other events. He would be sent to Korea and practice with DongRaeGu if he wanted.

Stephano didn't sign a contract to go to war and is now backing out. He signed a contract to play a game he loves for a bunch of money. He isn't going to be forced to play for Complexity, but I wouldn't blame them at all if they kept him to his word and made him play out his contract.
Writerhttps://twitter.com/FionnOnFire
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
September 19 2011 19:18 GMT
#559
On September 20 2011 04:18 gullberg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 04:16 XRaDiiX wrote:
On September 20 2011 04:06 Deleuzebwo wrote:
http://www.vvv-gaming.com/forum/topic/46628-losers-bracket-round-48/


Jerith posted this upthread, but I'm going to repost because it is decently illuminating. Sounds like the contract that Titan signed was shoddy - seems like they took an old contract and re-worked it for Titan, thus making it oddly worded and potentially not valid. That doesn't mean Stephano's was similarly shoddy, but who knows.

The lawyer also says that it would be near impossible to enforce a contract with a European party - arbitration might be possible but yeah.

Of course Jerith himself doesn't seem to be too into contracts. Keep in mind, contracts can help players as well. I'm not sure if vvv's players are contracted, but the recent kerfluffle over their not providing travel money to their players after (what they perceived as) poor performances at MLG shows that a naive ideology of "brotherhood" doesn't cut it either.


So they never said what team vVvTitan was possibly going to sign with... was it COL.? Because that in my books makes them look even more slimy. If it is COL?

Like a sneaky snake...

How someone could possibly blame coL in this situation is beyond me.


Ignore that guy, he is an awful poster on his way out probably. Check out his other posts.
twitch.tv/medrea
TaktiDerBlonde
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany33 Posts
September 19 2011 19:18 GMT
#560
lol sounds like coL never talked to M+ orgas about transfer etc. In my opinion coL showed bad habits, recruiting a player behind the back of the former team.

hahah

american culture..big on honor..

User was warned for this post
Gebildete MC's fühln sich untight wenn ich boxe!
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